TM 2023 | Super Mario Bros Mafia | Game Over!
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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ok, why?In post 86, Jingle wrote: Because we think wogurts has a strong potential to be scum aorn. Ask a silly question...
I think Cerb's posts have been lengthy and wordy but don't have much meat to them & feel vaguely pocket-y of wgeurts-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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How do you think I've been pocketing?In post 96, Radical Rat wrote: VOTE: CSF
Laying on the pocket a bit thick for so early on aren't you?-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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I didn't expect that much meat, it was more so that the post was responding to multiple things without necessarily adding to the conversationIn post 100, petapan wrote:
how much meat would you expect based on when in the game they were posted?In post 88, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:
ok, why?In post 86, Jingle wrote: Because we think wogurts has a strong potential to be scum aorn. Ask a silly question...
I think Cerb's posts have been lengthy and wordy but don't have much meat to them & feel vaguely pocket-y of wgeurts-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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My posts were mainly an attempt to engage with Jingle who happened to be in the thread at the time, but I can kinda see why you may have perceived it as a defense of wgeurtsIn post 132, Radical Rat wrote:
I believe your defense of wgeurts is too strong for how early it is and likely an attempt to either curry favor or overextend for a buddy. I don't think you would be protecting a buddy from such a light push so early though, so I'm suspecting a white knight attemptIn post 129, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:
How do you think I've been pocketing?In post 96, Radical Rat wrote: VOTE: CSF
Laying on the pocket a bit thick for so early on aren't you?-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Trades
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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Can you elaborate what you didn't like from it on page 2?
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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Can you explain how their accusations are different from mine or peta's?In post 204, HighPrincessErinys wrote: the initial accusations are still... Eek.-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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I'm not a huge fan of this post. I think evaluating people's reasons for voting itself can be a valid form of scumhunting in of itself. As for "who it thinks we should be voting instead", its vote was already on you anywayIn post 198, wgeurts wrote:
HPE, if you're town, instead of hunkering down on why people are voting you tell me who you think we should be voting instead.In post 194, HighPrincessErinys wrote:
That seems like a sketchy refusal to elaborate considering we only know for sure you've seen pages 1 and 2.In post 192, Fate wrote: Lockscum
kids these days
doesn't nearly have a good a ring as confscum
Now.
For those questioning me, shhhhh, all in due time-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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Jingle, I hate to take your fun away but can you stick with one spelling of wgeurts? It's going to make ctrl+f'ing for them in your ISO a pain otherwise-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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I'll be honest I don't really remember your play from the xyzzy game but I can take a look later.
But by your own reasoning, shouldn't you be voting for me then since you had higher expectations from me in a sense?-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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Is this at me? I'm a bit confused by the reasoning behind its primary push (on you) - it doesn't really make much sense to meIn post 218, wgeurts wrote: May I ask why you're still voting them however? As opposed to me who you've criticised or another?-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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I don't think pressuring someone you're voting with means much at this stage of the game, but the bolded is a fairly good observationIn post 221, wgeurts wrote: They're giving me a whole bunch of waffle.Jingle comes in and says he's a bit suspicious of Porken's, suddenly HPE is questioning Porken's too and walks back their vote on me a little.Note that Porkens is voting with HPE. If HPE is a passive player, I want to shove them off the fence and get them to take hard stances. If they're not used to that, making them squirm will in the short term and long term be telling enough.
Radical Rat comes across as town, especially given what I perceive their scum range to be. Adorable feels genuineIn post 222, wgeurts wrote: Was aimed at Jingle, who do you take as town right now yourself?
I had some towny feelings on Jingle and petapan earlier but am going to be more wary of those slots-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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Do you strongly townread Adorable? You don't seem to be concerned with it being a scum ability activated by the powerupIn post 254, Jingle wrote: A mechanical thought occurs. It is possible that there is a role or roles that benefit from having powerups. It is possible that Adorable has one of these roles. I don't want Adorable to say whether this is the case. I'm mentioning this because at this point I don't particularly mind if scum kill adorable on the back of this speculation and I've decided I actually want the powerup awarded in case this is the case.
VOTE: Powerup: Adorable-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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I'm still unsure how why you singled them out for potential scum motivation if their accusations have been the same as others tbhIn post 230, HighPrincessErinys wrote: A little, but this one doesn't know about outright VOTING you for that when it has genuine reason to believe in a scum motivation by wgeurts.
I did take a look at the xyzzy game and you do have a habit of making observations that you don't think are necessarily scummy & slow to form scumreads, so I am feeling less good about my vote atm-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Trades
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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Basically you value the opportunity to keep scum guessing? This explanation makes sense to me at face value though admittedly thinking about this stuff is not my strengthIn post 257, Jingle wrote: That's a loaded question. I am relatively strongly townreading adorable, but also I would probably be pro giving her the power even if I weren't.
Locking anything majorly significant behind a public use vote is kind of poor game design, and not something I'd expect from Cakez. Like... if scum needs a strongman or scumvig to be competitive and that's locked behind calling extra attention to themselves, that's a bad decision I think Cakez is better than making. If its moderate power, like a roleblock, then it sucks but it's not the end of the world if it turns on. If it's moderate townpower, like a tracker or a doctor we might lose adorable because I'm pointing scum at adorable by outing this, but I think it likely scum will just assume that it's not worth worrying over but also we wouldn't get the power anyway if I didn't make that post. If it's no power at all, scum might be swayed into shooting Adorable over someone who is more immediately threatening to them.
[p]253[/p] implies that there is a mechanical reason for wanting the power, and while GiF is a troll who might have told Adorable to go for the powerup because he knew/expected it was a waste of town's time, he's also a good enough mod that if there was a reason to want it he would definitely coach Adorable into trying for it at that point. And leaving which of those is actually the case openended is pretty obviously the right way to approach this as town.-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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It seems like you picked up on the same issue with Fate's post that I saw, so it's surprising to me that you would also write this:In post 233, Cerberus v666 wrote:I eagerly await the in depth and well reasoned argument based off their *checks notes* 3 posts they had made to that point which I am sure you will never provide.
In post 233, Cerberus v666 wrote:In post 194, HighPrincessErinys wrote:
That seems like a sketchy refusal to elaborate considering we only know for sure you've seen pages 1 and 2.In post 192, Fate wrote: Lockscum
kids these days
doesn't nearly have a good a ring as confscum
Now.
For those questioning me, shhhhh, all in due time
I think I missed a post by HPE in here where I was going to call out the beetlejuicing a second time, and instead accidentally posted the part where they threw shade on the person voting them instead. NAGL.-
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I thought it was if someone lurks in the game but then magically pops into the thread right when someone susses themIn post 267, wgeurts wrote:
Okay what the hell is beetlejuicingIn post 259, Jingle wrote: I'm more concerned with the application of the tell this early. It was explicitly beetlejuicing, but beetlejuicing is really only a scumtell if it's a pattern of behavior.-
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If someone is active in the game, I figure they're probably refreshing it regularly, which makes the timing of it less suspect-
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SureIn post 275, Cerberus v666 wrote: I can take issue with the behavior of both slots. I vaguely recall fate being a spammy player who appears useless until they suddenly become useful, so I don't expect anything to come from them that is well reasoned,especially not at this point.
To clarify, when you said 194 was NAGL, how did that post strike you as scum indicative instead of town trying to find scum on its wagon?-
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Sorry I missed this earlier. This does make more senseIn post 261, HighPrincessErinys wrote:
To clarify: You asked what makes you and peta's accusations different from wgeurts'. This one said the only common link was that you all three said it wasn't posting much of substance, because otherwise only wgeurts was making further accusations in the readwall like with the Jingle thing or power-up talk, etc.In post 256, Cat Scratch Fever wrote: I'm still unsure how why you singled them out for potential scum motivation if their accusations have been the same as others tbh-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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VOTE: Fate
Feeling rather uncertain of my reads atm, but this is fine for now
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I've been ambivalent about wgeurts but am going to tentatively say they're town. The thing that threw me for a loop was their early townlean on me when I wasn't feeling engaged in the game yet. It felt like a tmi-y townread made to potentially pocket someone, but thinking about it some more, I think I'm kind of a weird choice for a pocket in this list, especially since I was low effort posting up until that point. My team is feeling good about wgeurts too so that's also a thing
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Cerberus, can you summarize where you have people at right now?-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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I'm more interested in a quick tiered list of people over a detailed read list wall with explanations. You're making observations, and I'm interested in how you weigh the various things you've pointed out to form conclusionsIn post 304, Cerberus v666 wrote:
I could, but on principle I won't barring a super compelling reason to do so. I'm a Day 3 in a large game give a reads list and solve the game kinda guy. Since this is smaller, I'll solve the game midday tomorrow assuming we see two flips to base my analysis off of.In post 293, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:Cerberus, can you summarize where you have people at right now?
I will, however, gladly answer specific questions. If you want some non-summary thoughts on an individual in the next 24 hours(before my presence may become spotty) I could probably be convinced to ISO someone and arrive at a conclusion about them in particular that I'm willing to share.
as for a comprehensive ISO on someone, maybe wgeurts since you're familiar with their meta already
You also seem to imply that you're a teamsolver, yes? Any feelings as for what the scumteam may be doing yet?-
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Anyone you'd want the power up to go to, aside from yourself?In post 331, Fate wrote: I mean this adorable wagon is gonna be juicy info later mark my words-
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Iirc no one sussed cerb before 225In post 308, Fate wrote:
See how she's going for easy non-controversial readsIn post 225, Adorable wrote: I didn't like how Fate voted HPE with no elaboration and had nothing else to add.
Cerb has not been asking me good questions and these are the kind of questions that don't help on scum hunting. It looked like busywork to me. I would prefer players ask me question with a single quote and not a wallpost because I don't know how to edit the huge wall.
HPE I am null on and I can also imagine a town HPE being low hanging fruit. They said they are a passive player, I am also a passive player and I see nothing wrong with being passive.
also this self-described 'passive' playstyle is the towniest thing i've ever read
Maybe that doesn't qualify as controversial but it was original-
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I'll be busy tomorrow traveling but should still be within prod range-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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What was genuine about their posting?In post 353, Radical Rat wrote: Because they're right-
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The word "lynch" is no longer allowed per site rulesIn post 355, Fate wrote: the hell is a mislim
don't tell me the site did away with the word lynch and joined cancel culture-
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I would be if it was more confidently scum reading you in the first place, but i never got the impression that it wasIn post 356, Fate wrote: IS NO ONE ELSE CONCERNED THAT HPE JUMPED FROM VOTING ME THE BIGGEST WAGON TO WHO I AM VOTING?
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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wgeurts can you comment on cerb's meta especially if he's typically reticent with his reads a la 369? I would normally check but I have limited time at the moment-
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I thought you were scumreading Adorable though or did that change?In post 432, Fate wrote: I also refuse to share a tier with adorable, I've been way scummier-
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All right, why is he on the lower side then if this is within his townrange?In post 487, wgeurts wrote:
I do not like his posting but he is correct in that he comes into action later in the game, it has been some years, but if he doesn't step up D2 it's a definite point to criticise. He's a bad day 1 vote, but you may note he's rather low down in my reads. Basically, null, maybe a bit scum leaning, but by far pending further action.In post 486, Cat Scratch Fever wrote: wgeurts can you comment on cerb's meta especially if he's typically reticent with his reads a la 369? I would normally check but I have limited time at the moment-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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Read your wall and some of your later posts, and I think your case can be summarized by "HPE is going with the flow and keeping options open" right? Sorry if that's way too simplistic but for the sake of keeping it straight in my headIn post 522, wgeurts wrote:
Thoughts on everything else I've posted as it's not the kind of "don't comment" contentIn post 519, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:
I thought you were scumreading Adorable though or did that change?In post 432, Fate wrote: I also refuse to share a tier with adorable, I've been way scummier
it doesn't strike me as a particularly confident or proactive player, so I'm not sure how scum indicative those points are. I do think it hasn't declared strong reads except on Jingle, but I don't think that's scum indicative either considering I haven't been feeling good about my own reads either tbh
Some specific points:
I think I mentioned this earlier but thinking both you & Porkens could be scum doesn't seem like cogdis to me because reads are nebulous at that early stage of the game.
About its progression on you, it started to have doubts but never really came around to a townread on you afaict - and then you did also kinda disappear for a few days, so I can see how it got there
I guess my overarching question is- why is HPE scummier than Cerb who hasn't been pushing anything but you admit can be within their town meta? Or Fate who was on both your (wgeurts) and petapan wagons and whose read changes i'm finding difficult to follow?
Basically why is your HPE case such a "slam dunk" compared to some other reads that you're more nuanced about?-
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The bolded is not an especially damning point considering wgeurts had been scumreading it basically the whole game, but I can see HPE thinking this and seeing a scum driven push on itIn post 553, HighPrincessErinys wrote: This one can give you a readlist on everyone and clarify "silly" and try its hardest to explain what made it change it's mind on peta.But you also never asked for any of that, never tried to get me to generate content by openly questioning me, you just let me go about my business so you could spin it as scummy.The closest you came was 198 which this one answered and you then subsequently said "hey isnt it weird how HPE said porkens then voted fate??" like that means anything when they were both birds of a not-doing-much feather at that point.-
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I think Adorable, HPE, petapan, Radical Rat, and wgeurts are all probably town
I was kinda gutreading Porkens town, but it's not a read I care to go to bat for-
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I'm curious what Koba thought the inflection point was, since I didn't get this feeling about Cerb's postingIn post 377, Jingle wrote: Cerb {initial bad vibes but good since,-
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What did you think of his latest catch-up?In post 602, Radical Rat wrote:
Okay, I understand now. I'm sorry I portrayed it that way, I should have been more clear.In post 596, petapan wrote:
i took a single day off from the game because i was feeling sick and to have it implied i was trying to lurk out and only started posting due to getting voted by you is really insultingIn post 591, Radical Rat wrote:
I'm sorry, I'm actually confused here. Is it just because it's too theatrical?In post 589, petapan wrote:
hey, this really made me angry, so if you could not talk to me this way ever that would be greatIn post 579, Radical Rat wrote: Let that suspicion sit for a while to see if you ever got better and... not really. It's picked up a bit now that you're actually in danger though, so let's keep that danger looming a bit, eh?
I was referring more to post quality than quantity though. Before your wagon happened, you weren't really taking stances on things, it all felt very non-committal. Now it doesn't. I don't hold being sick for a day against you, but there has been a dramatic shift in the content of your posting before and after the formation of a wagon, and that's what I'm referring to here-
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Agree that post was kinda weak but the feeling didn't improve after this even though he was mostly talking at meIn post 587, Jingle wrote:
This is the last post Koba specifically called out as bad from cerbs (waffley weak uses a lot of words to say not a lot of substance).In post 247, Cerberus v666 wrote:
Interesting. This post is approximately 55% scum, 45% town. I think it's *slighly* more scum than town to want to get your thoughts out in the game ahead of people questioning you about them, and it's *definitely* more scum than town to defer responsibility for doing something that the game has decided is scummy. Interesting that you did not know what was meant by bloating the thread, but understood, makes sense in that case.In post 243, Adorable wrote:
My objective was to let players know that I didn't have any reads and it's better to share what I have been feeling instead of keeping it to myself. A teammate of mine said I should get the double vote power which is why I said in the thread I would be willing to take it. I didn't know on what bloating the thread means which is why I asked.In post 235, Cerberus v666 wrote: JUST FOR YOU ADORABLE!!!
In post 40, Adorable wrote: I'm currently null on everyone at the moment.
Why are you even saying these things? I don't see an objective to either post?In post 67, Adorable wrote: If no one wants the double vote power up then I'll be willing to take it.
I don't want to hate on someone for asking questions, but what is your objective here? I assume you know what bloating the thread means, and also understand why talking about this would do so. Which means you have some other objective to asking the question, so what is it?In post 71, Adorable wrote:
What does that mean by bloats the thread?In post 62, Jingle wrote:
Why?In post 60, HighPrincessErinys wrote: We should still probably give it to someone, right?
It doesn't do anything and just bloats the thread to do so.
I don’t know if there are specific posts since then they liked, but I did let Koba know that “a lot of words” is a NAI thing for cerbs afaicr so it might have been a reread thing. I’ll get back to you when they see this.-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
- Jack of All Trades
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Contrast to early game when there was less content to comment on?-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
- Jack of All Trades
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Got around to double checking some of his meta. He's capable of doing more as both alignments than he has shown here, but he does strike me as someone who needs more time to fake analysis / reads as scum:In post 547, petapan wrote: open chatgpt: viewtopic.php?t=90462 (again he's gimmicking for 13 posts or so, keep scrolling down and you'll see where he stops using chatgpt to write responses)
weird dreams mafia: viewtopic.php?t=90611 (it's a replace in, but, like, that game had a similarish number of posts to where this one is at now)
like he can be lazy and low effort at times but all available evidence from what i've seen is that as town he is capable of actually trying but as scum he barely cares
Scum game 1
Spoiler:
Scum game 2
Spoiler:
Scum game 3
Spoiler:
***As scum, there's a general pattern of saying "I haven't been reading the game seriously yet" as an excuse for not having more serious thoughts or for having underdeveloped reads early in the game.***
I don't doubt that he's busy when he wrote these posts, but playing scum requires more time to think about the game & that seems to be true for Porkens.
The same kind of posting is present this game too:
Spoiler:
In post 159, wgeurts wrote: Gonna sleep now as my first wall of text in years has drained me. I do want to note, not providing any insight as to where you stand and not committing to anything is not a playstyle difference.
Tell me who you like most, tell me who you lije least. I don't care about questions posed if you never follow up.
I didn't want to include this in the spoiler, because I think it's a good example of what I'm trying to express here. This interaction seemed like a bad dodge when asked a basic question of "who do you like / dislike" - that's the kind of question that really should not take that much time or consideration to answer.In post 161, Porkens wrote: I’ll do it later
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He doesn't do this as town because all he has to do is post his genuine thoughts. It's hard to quote the absence of something, but here are some town games I looked at:
- viewtopic.php?sid=&f=53&t=89907&user_select%5B%5D=9469
- viewtopic.php?sid=&f=51&t=90036&user_select%5B%5D=9469
- viewtopic.php?sid=&f=23&t=90462&user_select%5B%5D=9469 - he does say he was going to post a readslist later in this post, but before that he already had more game-related content. More importantly, he's not using this as an excuse for not having more serious content. In fact, he even says that "posts were a lightning rod that generated the majority of content in this game so far" earlier.
- viewtopic.php?p=13565215&f=51&t=90144&u ... #p13565215
- viewtopic.php?sid=&f=3&t=90611&user_select%5B%5D=9469
As a bonus, Porkens' vote in 163 also looks worse if HPE and wgeurts are indeed both town, which is kinda where I'm at.
VOTE: Porkens-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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I didn't really get the impression that he was lazy town from my iso divesIn post 619, Adorable wrote: I'm not a fan of meta reads. Porkens play reminds me of some of the players I play with on WG. It could be lazy town or scum. Porkens is a slot I wouldn't mind going over if they don't give more thoughts about the game.-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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I wouldn't mind seeing competing porkens and cerb wagons-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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I found the argument that they demonstrated a lot of heart in their push on HPE and therefore genuinely believe in their scumread to be fairly compellingIn post 623, Jingle wrote: Apologies if I missed it, but did you ever explain your townread on wgeurts, CSF?
Their wall does seem reminiscent of some confbias-y cases written by town. They scumread a set of behaviors that HPE displayed since early game, and when it continued to play the same way, they became more and more convinced of their read-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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That would be a point against peta's favor though, right?In post 625, Jingle wrote: I can kind of see this, but the self acknowledgment of how poorly made the original case was to the point of reworking it unprompted and the immediate handwaving of peta being convinced by it making sense still strikes me as dissonant.
Spoiler:
I'm not sure whether he likes the content in the wall or simply thinks it was written by town. Probably the former given the second sentence
I disagree with the reasoning there... I think town moves their vote all the time to avoid vanity wagoning. Not sure if it moves the needle on my read though
Though come to think of it, weren't there 3 votes on the Fate wagon at the time? Why did HPE think the wagon wasn't viable?-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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I thought their early reads made sense to me - the tier list at the top of 140 were roughly where I had people sorted by that point tooIn post 625, Jingle wrote: Is there anything else you've seen that implies town [from wgeurts]?-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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Oh, I misread this, yes I see what you're saying now, but I don't see how it's dissonant? If they thought their wall was poorly edited but the points would still make sense for a careful reader...In post 625, Jingle wrote:In post 624, Cat Scratch Fever wrote: I found the argument that they demonstrated a lot of heart in their push on HPE and therefore genuinely believe in their scumread to be fairly compellingI can kind of see this, but the self acknowledgment of how poorly made the original case was to the point of reworking it unprompted and the immediate handwaving of peta being convinced by it making sense still strikes me as dissonant.I feel like this is the kind of case that's really easy to write off as wrong town, but I have reservations. Is there anything else you've seen that implies town?-
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Cat Scratch Fever she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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nvm I misremembered the reasoning behind HPE's wagon hopIn post 626, Cat Scratch Fever wrote: Though come to think of it, weren't there 3 votes on the Fate wagon at the time? Why did HPE think the wagon wasn't viable?
Spoiler: