TM 2023 | Open: PYP S_TM | Endgame

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ego.

Also, there is almost certainly a scum in the 6s and we should be looking there today.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Anyway, with that in mind

Vote: Imaginality

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: gimli

Why are you voting someone in the top 4 draft slots right now?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like I'm not willing to push anyone in the top 4 today, it was a mistake town made in a recent game that gave my scum team in the PYP I played a LOT of info to find a cop when we shagged the draft.

It's not worth it. We have 3 sixes at the bottom, and there's almost always a scum in that group.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Woo it's starting, but this is my bedtime so hello and goodnight!

Zerg don't sleep, Follow your Queen of Blades into battle

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: gimli

Why are you voting someone in the top 4 draft slots right now?

his number stands out to me.
Wouldn't wolves want to be high up in the draft?

You know who else wants to be high up in the draft?

Take a wild guess. Go on, take a wild guess what other faction of players would also love to be high up in the draft.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

why do you think wolves picked 6?

wolves plural? I don't, or at least, if they did it's a gambit and I'm happy to call the bluff killing there day 1 and leaving it on the table

Wolf singular? Because in this game where 3 numbers overlap in pick, it's pretty likely there is at least one scum in the grouping.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: gimli

Why are you voting someone in the top 4 draft slots right now?

his number stands out to me.
Wouldn't wolves want to be high up in the draft?

You know who else wants to be high up in the draft?

Take a wild guess. Go on, take a wild guess what other faction of players would also love to be high up in the draft.

everyone

Good job, you did it, I'm so proud of you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Number logic is a reasonable thing to use to hunt scum but 1) We're never killing anyone in the top 4 today and 2) Picking a solo number is hard to examine by number logic without other flipped wolves to see wolf bidding strategy, unlike triple six logic.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

why do you think wolves picked 6?

wolves plural? I don't, or at least, if they did it's a gambit and I'm happy to call the bluff killing there day 1 and leaving it on the table

Wolf singular? Because in this game where 3 numbers overlap in pick, it's pretty likely there is at least one scum in the grouping.

so like, what is this based on?

History of this game, statistics, number picking logic...

it's not 100% but nothing is, but it's significantly increased.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: Lady Lambdadelta

The argument you are making does not make any sense to me.

<3

Just because you're not capable of understanding the math and history behind this open setup that leads to this logic being correct does not make it not correct.

Nor does your lack of understanding it make me scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

why do you think wolves picked 6?

wolves plural? I don't, or at least, if they did it's a gambit and I'm happy to call the bluff killing there day 1 and leaving it on the table

Wolf singular? Because in this game where 3 numbers overlap in pick, it's pretty likely there is at least one scum in the grouping.

so like, what is this based on?

History of this game, statistics, number picking logic...

it's not 100% but nothing is, but it's significantly increased.

I don't get it

okay, so do you know why my team was able to predict that we should never pick 6?

Because 6 is the single most picked number in PYP history. The literal last game of this that was run I was scum in even included multiple people on 6s.

When 3 players end up on the same number, and that number is famously known for being highly picked, it's very likely there is one scum in the list if not 2 doing a scum gambit that has HAPPENED IN TEAM MAFIA BEFORE (Faraday and Hoopla did it).

Even from a statistical model, 3 people picking the same number contains scum a large percent of the time.

And finally, killing on the bottom end of the draft pool reduces scum's opportunity to learn our roles by pressuring our top end, forcing a clam and backing off and then forcing another claim, a strategy I employed as scum literally 2 months ago when I last played this game as scum and nearly won.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: Lady Lambdadelta

The argument you are making does not make any sense to me.

<3

Just because you're not capable of understanding the math and history behind this open setup that leads to this logic being correct does not make it not correct.

Nor does your lack of understanding it make me scum.

From my perspective it looks like you're full of shit though and you aren't actually explaining any of this math/history/logic in a way that makes me feel differently!

I'm literally explaining it, and you're literally not engaging with the explinations.

You're just saying "it doesn't make sense and you're not explaining" which is an incredibly frustrating way to go about this.

If you don't understand, ask and assess then, instead of whatever this assumption shit is.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

So why would wolves want to opt for 6?

if 2 wolves, they're gambiting that there isn't more than 1 wolf in a pile when wolves get to group draft together, which can bring wolves to endgame.

If 1 wolf, they're either: a)on a team that is somehow unaware of this historical fact b) part of a scumteam that is spreading out in a specific way or c) expecting others to be aware of this history and avoid 6, given meta.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: Lady Lambdadelta

The argument you are making does not make any sense to me.

<3

Just because you're not capable of understanding the math and history behind this open setup that leads to this logic being correct does not make it not correct.

Nor does your lack of understanding it make me scum.

From my perspective it looks like you're full of shit though and you aren't actually explaining any of this math/history/logic in a way that makes me feel differently!

I'm literally explaining it, and you're literally not engaging with the explinations.

You're just saying "it doesn't make sense and you're not explaining" which is an incredibly frustrating way to go about this.

If you don't understand, ask and assess then, instead of whatever this assumption shit is.

Show me where you explained before my post then.

Ah yes, that old chestnut of you asking me on the TOP OF PAGE FUCKING 2 to explain in EXTENSIVE DETAIL something I am explaining truthfully and fielding questions about AS YOU POST IT.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm literally having the conversation YOU AND I SHOULD BE HAVING given you're voting me with ALISAE who is NOT VOTING ME.

And I don't get why I'm having that talk with Alisae and not you. Is it ego? Have I wounded your ego by explaining somethign you don't understand and now you're like "it feels wrong and it's too late to go back so I'm gonna be defensive?"

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: Lady Lambdadelta

The argument you are making does not make any sense to me.

<3

Just because you're not capable of understanding the math and history behind this open setup that leads to this logic being correct does not make it not correct.

Nor does your lack of understanding it make me scum.

From my perspective it looks like you're full of shit though and you aren't actually explaining any of this math/history/logic in a way that makes me feel differently!

I'm literally explaining it,

and you're literally not engaging with the explinations.

You're just saying "it doesn't make sense and you're not explaining" which is an incredibly frustrating way to go about this.

If you don't understand, ask and assess then, instead of whatever this assumption shit is.

Show me where you explained before my post then.

Ah yes, that old chestnut of you asking me on the TOP OF PAGE FUCKING 2 to explain in EXTENSIVE DETAIL something I am explaining truthfully and fielding questions about AS YOU POST IT.

But you just said

you did explain it...

Tensing matters, reading is tech.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I caught Marashu before and Imaginality I think I can get a good read on. Last time I played with him I pushed him as low hanging fruit and railroaded his elim extremely quickly.

Cool so help me put some pressure on Imaginality and we'll get a read there together. Apologies if I'm not willing to trust someone in the 6s as the sole arbiter of reading that player. That requires me to townread you and you know that's not happening strongly day 1 basically ever.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm not being defensive?? You're being like extremely defensive though. Are we reading the same game????

You literally are. I'm literally attacking you for poking me about this instead of asking me questions to sort whether I'm right or not, and you're giving me bullshit reasons why you're not doing it, including CHANGING THE TENSING OF MY POST TO SUIT YOUR NEEDS which is hyper frustrating.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, again, why is Alisae the one engaging with me this way and you, the one voting/suspcious of me, are not trying to sort me by figuring it out at all.

You're just shading it instead.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Just dropping out of retirement to nail LLD on page one of team mafia???

This is precisely the shit I mean.

It's sort of ironic that I did this exact shit to GreyICE literally almost a decade ago and was wrong, like you're wrong now.

And I'm just trying to figure out if you're the egotistical kind of wrong or the scum kind of wrong.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD I'm an easy read.
I don't think my vote on imaginality does what you think it does but sure
VOTE: imaginality

I have a history with you and a recent scum game that proves you're not, but okay Ali.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm literally explaining it, and you're literally not engaging with the explinations.

You said this and then refused to point to where lol

MISS

I AM LITERALLY HAVING THE CONVERSATION WITH ALISAE

"I AM EXPLAINING IT MEANS I AM IN THE PROCESS OF EXPLAINING IT AND YOU'RE IGNORING IT"

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like I'm not willing to push anyone in the top 4 today, it was a mistake town made in a recent game that gave my scum team in the PYP I played a LOT of info to find a cop when we shagged the draft.

It's not worth it. We have 3 sixes at the bottom, and there's almost always a scum in that group.

VOTE: gimli

Why are you voting someone in the top 4 draft slots right now?

his number stands out to me.
Wouldn't wolves want to be high up in the draft?

You know who else wants to be high up in the draft?

Take a wild guess. Go on, take a wild guess what other faction of players would also love to be high up in the draft.

why do you think wolves picked 6?

wolves plural? I don't, or at least, if they did it's a gambit and I'm happy to call the bluff killing there day 1 and leaving it on the table

Wolf singular? Because in this game where 3 numbers overlap in pick, it's pretty likely there is at least one scum in the grouping.

Number logic is a reasonable thing to use to hunt scum but 1) We're never killing anyone in the top 4 today and 2) Picking a solo number is hard to examine by number logic without other flipped wolves to see wolf bidding strategy, unlike triple six logic.

why do you think wolves picked 6?

wolves plural? I don't, or at least, if they did it's a gambit and I'm happy to call the bluff killing there day 1 and leaving it on the table

Wolf singular? Because in this game where 3 numbers overlap in pick, it's pretty likely there is at least one scum in the grouping.

so like, what is this based on?

History of this game, statistics, number picking logic...

it's not 100% but nothing is, but it's significantly increased.

why do you think wolves picked 6?

wolves plural? I don't, or at least, if they did it's a gambit and I'm happy to call the bluff killing there day 1 and leaving it on the table

Wolf singular? Because in this game where 3 numbers overlap in pick, it's pretty likely there is at least one scum in the grouping.

so like, what is this based on?

History of this game, statistics, number picking logic...

it's not 100% but nothing is, but it's significantly increased.

I don't get it

okay, so do you know why my team was able to predict that we should never pick 6?

Because 6 is the single most picked number in PYP history. The literal last game of this that was run I was scum in even included multiple people on 6s.

When 3 players end up on the same number, and that number is famously known for being highly picked, it's very likely there is one scum in the list if not 2 doing a scum gambit that has HAPPENED IN TEAM MAFIA BEFORE (Faraday and Hoopla did it).

Even from a statistical model, 3 people picking the same number contains scum a large percent of the time.

And finally, killing on the bottom end of the draft pool reduces scum's opportunity to learn our roles by pressuring our top end, forcing a clam and backing off and then forcing another claim, a strategy I employed as scum literally 2 months ago when I last played this game as scum and nearly won.

So why would wolves want to opt for 6?

if 2 wolves, they're gambiting that there isn't more than 1 wolf in a pile when wolves get to group draft together, which can bring wolves to endgame.

If 1 wolf, they're either: a)on a team that is somehow unaware of this historical fact b) part of a scumteam that is spreading out in a specific way or c) expecting others to be aware of this history and avoid 6, given meta.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

This is a really aggressive opening if lady is scum. Feeling kinda townie to me with the excited theory. I should sleep but I do love reading game openings that are moving this fast.

this is null for me, don't town read me for this

I'm literally executing understood and practiced game theory for this game there's nothing here that scum me doesn't do.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm literally explaining it, and you're literally not engaging with the explinations.

You said this and then refused to point to where lol

MISS

I AM LITERALLY HAVING THE CONVERSATION WITH ALISAE

"I AM EXPLAINING IT MEANS I AM IN THE PROCESS OF EXPLAINING IT AND YOU'RE IGNORING IT"

It would be so easy to answer my question then.

Just fucking did you self righteous bfsdhuajkl;

fuck you're legitimately trying to tilt me on purpose, aren't you

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@58 those aren't explanations except 31 which was after my post.

After your post and BEFORE MINE Ythan.

And they ARE explinations. They require you to do a little research of the OPEN GAME TYPE and its history, but if you ASKED ME FOR THAT maybe I'd have done that work for you instead of having this stupid fight where I literally just want to fucking tell you to fuck off

[Lady Lambdadelta]

If I didn't think you were flailing scum I would be offended you accused me of trying to tilt you. I think you know better than that.

be offended then, I don't care, you're literally doing some stupid shit and talking past me on purpose to wind me up.

I'm not remotely flailing. I literally entered the day championing this logic, nothing has changed with your take on it. I'm poking at your lack of interaction with the logic itself.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Raise of hands who went through all of the PyP games and looked at what people historically picked.

I did, but I also did that work TWO MONTHS AGO WHEN I ROLLED SCUM IN THIS GAME TYPE

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You just through out a bunch of buzz words and then called it an explanation. Sorry I didn't ask you to explain but that's irrelevant to what you are doing that is suspicious.

It's only suspicious if it's false, which it isn't.

If it's real it's me shorthanding something that people should be able to PROVABLY LEARN THEMSELVES and trying to explain it without having to clog the thread with STATISTIAL THEORY

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@58 those aren't explanations except 31 which was after my post.

After your post and BEFORE MINE Ythan.

And they ARE explinations. They require you to do a little research of the OPEN GAME TYPE and its history, but if you ASKED ME FOR THAT maybe I'd have done that work for you instead of having this stupid fight where I literally just want to fucking tell you to fuck off

Idk why you're being hyper aggressive but like I'm not so we can chill if you would prefer that.

I'm so far beyond chill with the person who was offered multiple chances to actually engage with my argument and chose not to.

So far beyond chill. You intentionally tried to tilt me to either try and read me or because you're scum. Either way, congrats, I'm tilted, you accomplished your goal.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think chilling is +town

Maybe it is, I'm sort of incandescently angry that I literally tried to make this player engage with the actual argument like 4 fuckign times and they chose to tilt me and only NOW are they like "woah let's calm down"

when it looks good for them to say it and makes me look like a fucking psychopath for being angry when I have GOODFUCKING REASON dfhskal FUCK dude

[Lady Lambdadelta]

eyeroll

Welcome to the Haystack

[Lady Lambdadelta]

but also <3

nah no fuckin' hearts i'm legit upset

this is a fucking null neutral strategy that you had the opportunity at any time to engage with or do even the slightest amount of work to see why anyone would believe this and instead you're like "nope nah seems fake bro" and while I try to explain it to alisae it's jsut more of that the whole time

i am about to burst into fucking tears because i'm so tired of dealing with people who just discredit me when I say shit like this without even doing the work to see if I'm RIGHT first

do you know how FRUSTRATING that is

[Lady Lambdadelta]

This is a really aggressive opening if lady is scum. Feeling kinda townie to me with the excited theory. I should sleep but I do love reading game openings that are moving this fast.

this is null for me, don't town read me for this

I'm literally executing understood and practiced game theory for this game there's nothing here that scum me doesn't do.

Do you have a game you can link to that you opened this emotionally aggressively as scum?

Why would I show you that?

Like, what I am doing is neutral, but you're asking me to show you if I'm this aggressive as scum.

The townie in me wants to say "no" and maybe you don't find one, but the answer is undoubtably yes I just don't have one in mind because it's common enough as an occurance.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

but also <3

nah no fuckin' hearts i'm legit upset

this is a fucking null neutral strategy that you had the opportunity at any time to engage with or do even the slightest amount of work to see why anyone would believe this and instead you're like "nope nah seems fake bro" and while I try to explain it to alisae it's jsut more of that the whole time

i am about to burst into fucking tears because i'm so tired of dealing with people who just discredit me when I say shit like this without even doing the work to see if I'm RIGHT first

do you know how FRUSTRATING that is

It's like you haven't read a single one of my posts since I voted you. Your reaction is unbelievable, I think I made that pretty clear but if not it's explicit now.

fucking HOW

you said "i don't believe it" and I said "I'm explaining it" and started explaining it to the PERSON ASKING ME QUESITONS ABOUT IT and you went "lul didn't already explain it" and made points about PRIOR POSTS when I said I was EXPLAINING IT FURTHER and instead of fuckign asking me questions about WHY I believe what I believe you just continue to believe I'm full of shit based on ???.

I've been reading your fucking posts. You're not engaging with me on the thing you need to engage with, instead you're just going "you're not reading, you're not explaining" when I'm syaing "okay then engage and I'll explain more!"

[Lady Lambdadelta]

This is a really aggressive opening if lady is scum. Feeling kinda townie to me with the excited theory. I should sleep but I do love reading game openings that are moving this fast.

this is null for me, don't town read me for this

I'm literally executing understood and practiced game theory for this game there's nothing here that scum me doesn't do.

Do you have a game you can link to that you opened this emotionally aggressively as scum?

Why would I show you that?

Like, what I am doing is neutral, but you're asking me to show you if I'm this aggressive as scum.

The townie in me wants to say "no" and maybe you don't find one, but the answer is undoubtably yes I just don't have one in mind because it's common enough as an occurance.

Because you bothered to press what I thought was townie was neutral, so why not take it a step further and show me you're capable of it as scum proving the neutral read?

right but this is inverted. I have 0 incentive as either alignment to show this to you and it's sort of weird you asked. Like I don't know what you're looking for here.

If I can't find one, I'm realistically proving myself town to you.

If I can find one, I'm proving myself town to you by being open.

there's no world I come out worse from that interaction so I don't get its purpose

[Lady Lambdadelta]

This is a really aggressive opening if lady is scum. Feeling kinda townie to me with the excited theory. I should sleep but I do love reading game openings that are moving this fast.

this is null for me, don't town read me for this

I'm literally executing understood and practiced game theory for this game there's nothing here that scum me doesn't do.

Do you have a game you can link to that you opened this emotionally aggressively as scum?

Why would I show you that?

Like, what I am doing is neutral, but you're asking me to show you if I'm this aggressive as scum.

The townie in me wants to say "no" and maybe you don't find one, but the answer is undoubtably yes I just don't have one in mind because it's common enough as an occurance.

Because you bothered to press what I thought was townie was neutral, so why not take it a step further and show me you're capable of it as scum proving the neutral read?

like to be clear I bothered to press you on it because giving me an easy townread for something like that does't really help me read you and it's just not going to be true a large swath of the time anyway.

so I'd rather you look into other things and read me on that eventually giving me an opportunity to read you as a result.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

This is a really aggressive opening if lady is scum. Feeling kinda townie to me with the excited theory. I should sleep but I do love reading game openings that are moving this fast.

this is null for me, don't town read me for this

I'm literally executing understood and practiced game theory for this game there's nothing here that scum me doesn't do.

Do you have a game you can link to that you opened this emotionally aggressively as scum?

Why would I show you that?

Like, what I am doing is neutral, but you're asking me to show you if I'm this aggressive as scum.

The townie in me wants to say "no" and maybe you don't find one, but the answer is undoubtably yes I just don't have one in mind because it's common enough as an occurance.

Because you bothered to press what I thought was townie was neutral, so why not take it a step further and show me you're capable of it as scum proving the neutral read?

right but this is inverted. I have 0 incentive as either alignment to show this to you and it's sort of weird you asked. Like I don't know what you're looking for here.

If I can't find one, I'm realistically proving myself town to you.

If I can find one, I'm proving myself town to you by being open.

there's no world I come out worse from that interaction so I don't get its purpose

There's no good reason to tell me that my townie read on you is wrong except for 1) it's a bad read by me because you can easily pull this off as scum and you're legit upset and threw that out there as frustrated town, or 2) you're scum and telling me not to town read you is easy bonus townie points.

Yeah I can deep dive your past games to find out but it's hour 1 of day 1 and I'm about to fall asleep so I figured I would ask you instead.

Real reason is above you, and neither of these. I'm not so egotistical that I won't take a free townread as town when I think it benefits me even if it's for a wrong reason. Nah it's that I have no idea who you are and I want you not able to sit on a laurels of a read on me and be forced to read me in a way I can read you.

As for games... I dunno, man. I can try and find one recently for you, or you can ask Alisae who is literally here and in this game and she'll confirm it's something I have done and can do.

I mean I guess you can look at Election, actually. I got this emotional against Cakez on day 1, so.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

This is a really aggressive opening if lady is scum. Feeling kinda townie to me with the excited theory. I should sleep but I do love reading game openings that are moving this fast.

this is null for me, don't town read me for this

I'm literally executing understood and practiced game theory for this game there's nothing here that scum me doesn't do.

Do you have a game you can link to that you opened this emotionally aggressively as scum?

Why would I show you that?

Like, what I am doing is neutral, but you're asking me to show you if I'm this aggressive as scum.

The townie in me wants to say "no" and maybe you don't find one, but the answer is undoubtably yes I just don't have one in mind because it's common enough as an occurance.

Because you bothered to press what I thought was townie was neutral, so why not take it a step further and show me you're capable of it as scum proving the neutral read?

like to be clear I bothered to press you on it because giving me an easy townread for something like that does't really help me read you and it's just not going to be true a large swath of the time anyway.

so I'd rather you look into other things and read me on that eventually giving me an opportunity to read you as a result.

You can get a read on me through other interactions. Not everything I say about you has to give you a read on me.

Harder when you have a stated townread on me that is easy to back up into. I'm susceptible to pocketing.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

fwiw i'm probably giving lld the day pass.
developed gamestates are the best gamestates to try to read LLD in

you make me so fucking nervous lmfao

[Lady Lambdadelta]

We think you're trying to bait me into a flame war

didn't you start it?

No. If I'm mistaken please explain.

you literally did i'm fhasdjkalsdsfkj

[Lady Lambdadelta]

it must be nice to be so ego locked that you can in the same breath attempt to bait me into getting angrier (and have that pointed out by Alisae) and then turn around and accuse ME of trying to draw YOU into a flame war.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think LLD's range is infinite.
She probably starts the game this way as both alignments.

I feel Ythan reacts how she did as both alignments as well fwiw, their alignment will probably be clearer the longer day goes on

no they're fucking town Alisae how fucking obvious do you need it made

[Lady Lambdadelta]

We think you're trying to bait me into a flame war like you know I am susceptible to but if that's the case your error was in not accounting for the fact that I like you.

they've been obvious town from this post

[Lady Lambdadelta]

scum doesn't make this post in this spot, it concedes an argument and puts them in a worse spot because again, see Egotism post above

[Lady Lambdadelta]

like no scum in their right mind especially with apparently their team backing them up with support says "okay make the posts you made before, have alisae comment that you're baiting LLD with them, then accuse LLD of baiting you into a flame war. That will make people believe your push and hop onboard."

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm fucking livid and I want to continue to yell at this slot until they engage with the fucking logic behind this whole thing and have that fucking conversation with me they've been refusing to have since page fucking 2 but they're not scum, not with that take

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Fwiw I haven't tried to bait you.

given I think you're town at this point I suppose you must believe this is true

it's not.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

and you being like "i like you" "i'm not baiting you" only makes me more angry because now i'm wondering if there's something wrong with my fucking brain

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Fwiw I haven't tried to bait you.

given I think you're town at this point I suppose you must believe this is true

it's not.

Yes you totally know my intentions better than I do lol.

Intentions aren't results.

Do you need me to say my post above more fucking clearly?

"I'm sure you believe this is true because you believe what you are saying is not incendiary or frustrating or supposed to cause anger."

In other words, I'm sure you didn't intend to bait me but it's not true, you ARE baiting me I've been saying it since this started about page 3 and been consistent in saying that. And you have another player saying it too.

Your intentions does not always equate your results.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

We think you're trying to bait me into a flame war

didn't you start it?

No. If I'm mistaken please explain.

I feel like you basically attacked LLD for not explaining how she got to the conclusion that a wolf is in the 6s and I felt the way you did so was aimed at trying to provoke them. I felt like 49 was probably not necessary and adds just more fuel to the fire? I felt like instead of trying to see their point of view you just aimed at pushing her like they were the enemy.

You could come out with a push like this as both alignments but I think you're town. I too thought that if LLD didn't make sense she was likely a wolf in the past as well and I pushed town!LLD for the logic that she didn't make sense in the past as well but it's not like it's impossible for it to come from a wolf. I just think it's probably coming from a villager right now but I feel like if you're a villager it'll be a lot more obvious as the day goes on

Voting someone is not attempting to provoke them. Obviously. Obviously?

49 was a sincere brag.

Unless you are wrong in which case it is someone IGNORING THE FUCKING TOPIC OF CONVERSATION TO GET A FUCKING EGO STROKE ON WHILE THE PERSON YOU ARE DOING THIS WITH BEGS YOU TO ENGAGE THE ACTUAL TOPIC OF CONVERSATION

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Fwiw I haven't tried to bait you.

given I think you're town at this point I suppose you must believe this is true

it's not.

Yes you totally know my intentions better than I do lol.

Intentions aren't results.

Do you need me to say my post above more fucking clearly?

"I'm sure you believe this is true because you believe what you are saying is not incendiary or frustrating or supposed to cause anger."

In other words, I'm sure you didn't intend to bait me but it's not true, you ARE baiting me I've been saying it since this started about page 3 and been consistent in saying that. And you have another player saying it too.

Your intentions does not always equate your results.

I said I hadn't tried to bait you. I used that wording intentionally.

oh so NOW you understand the importance of word tensing and modifiers.

sure, I get it, you're not trying to make me upset.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

and you being like "i like you" "i'm not baiting you" only makes me more angry because now i'm wondering if there's something wrong with my fucking brain

I have a history of being really inflammatory so I'm used to people assuming the worst idk.

our literal first interaction is a game where we yelled for 50 pages at each other on day 1.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

We think you're trying to bait me into a flame war

didn't you start it?

No. If I'm mistaken please explain.

I feel like you basically attacked LLD for not explaining how she got to the conclusion that a wolf is in the 6s and I felt the way you did so was aimed at trying to provoke them. I felt like 49 was probably not necessary and adds just more fuel to the fire? I felt like instead of trying to see their point of view you just aimed at pushing her like they were the enemy.

You could come out with a push like this as both alignments but I think you're town. I too thought that if LLD didn't make sense she was likely a wolf in the past as well and I pushed town!LLD for the logic that she didn't make sense in the past as well but it's not like it's impossible for it to come from a wolf. I just think it's probably coming from a villager right now but I feel like if you're a villager it'll be a lot more obvious as the day goes on

Voting someone is not attempting to provoke them. Obviously. Obviously?

49 was a sincere brag.

Unless you are wrong in which case it is someone IGNORING THE FUCKING TOPIC OF CONVERSATION TO GET A FUCKING EGO STROKE ON WHILE THE PERSON YOU ARE DOING THIS WITH BEGS YOU TO ENGAGE THE ACTUAL TOPIC OF CONVERSATION

You don't get to say what the actual topic of conversation is because you want me to shut up.

I provably don't. I provably want you to fucking actually ask me why I believe what I believe. I've been saying it for fucking pages.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Lld if you think ythan is town and you're town, let's calm down and move on

right but calming down requires me to

i actually don't know what it requires me to do. i don't know how to calm down right now.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

and you being like "i like you" "i'm not baiting you" only makes me more angry because now i'm wondering if there's something wrong with my fucking brain

I have a history of being really inflammatory so I'm used to people assuming the worst idk.

our literal first interaction is a game where we yelled for 50 pages at each other on day 1.

OoT probably? Memories~

ye oot

[Lady Lambdadelta]

fwiw i'm probably giving lld the day pass.
developed gamestates are the best gamestates to try to read LLD in

you make me so fucking nervous lmfao

I voted with you d1 in cakez game and would have given you a pass there too. I think my mafia experience is just a lot less stressful when I decide to save the harder players to read for later once a game has developed me. I don't need to get a read a player right away (tho it should be possible to get one in theory). Do you disagree?

no, i don't disagree, it's why i voted imaginality over you on entrance. i think i get more out of pushing them than pushing you, getting in a fight with you and then deciding your scum because you frustrate the ever loving fuck out of em and i can't read you and killing you

i don't even think i'm right more than i'm wrong doing that with you so i picked somenie else in the 6s

[Lady Lambdadelta]

We think you're trying to bait me into a flame war

didn't you start it?

No. If I'm mistaken please explain.

I feel like you basically attacked LLD for not explaining how she got to the conclusion that a wolf is in the 6s and I felt the way you did so was aimed at trying to provoke them. I felt like 49 was probably not necessary and adds just more fuel to the fire? I felt like instead of trying to see their point of view you just aimed at pushing her like they were the enemy.

You could come out with a push like this as both alignments but I think you're town. I too thought that if LLD didn't make sense she was likely a wolf in the past as well and I pushed town!LLD for the logic that she didn't make sense in the past as well but it's not like it's impossible for it to come from a wolf. I just think it's probably coming from a villager right now but I feel like if you're a villager it'll be a lot more obvious as the day goes on

Voting someone is not attempting to provoke them. Obviously. Obviously?

49 was a sincere brag.

Unless you are wrong in which case it is someone IGNORING THE FUCKING TOPIC OF CONVERSATION TO GET A FUCKING EGO STROKE ON WHILE THE PERSON YOU ARE DOING THIS WITH BEGS YOU TO ENGAGE THE ACTUAL TOPIC OF CONVERSATION

You don't get to say what the actual topic of conversation is because you want me to shut up.

I provably don't. I provably want you to fucking actually ask me why I believe what I believe. I've been saying it for fucking pages.

I don't care about that?? I think you're scum because of your reaction, like I said earlier.

My reaction being inextricably tied to the fact you won't engage and literally continuing to this point.

But fine, whatever.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

idunno Ythan I thought the way you were interacting with LLD it seemed like you were egging her on which is why I thought that you were kind of provoking her.

because she was

because she was fishign for a reaction and got anger and thinks that the anger and frustration is scummy which i guess is their right to believe.

They keep saying they think my reaction is impossible from town, which is....

[Lady Lambdadelta]

you two go so quickly I feel like I'm struggling to keep up lol

Welcome to it.

Welcome to the Haystack

[Lady Lambdadelta]

We think you're trying to bait me into a flame war

didn't you start it?

No. If I'm mistaken please explain.

I feel like you basically attacked LLD for not explaining how she got to the conclusion that a wolf is in the 6s and I felt the way you did so was aimed at trying to provoke them. I felt like 49 was probably not necessary and adds just more fuel to the fire? I felt like instead of trying to see their point of view you just aimed at pushing her like they were the enemy.

You could come out with a push like this as both alignments but I think you're town. I too thought that if LLD didn't make sense she was likely a wolf in the past as well and I pushed town!LLD for the logic that she didn't make sense in the past as well but it's not like it's impossible for it to come from a wolf. I just think it's probably coming from a villager right now but I feel like if you're a villager it'll be a lot more obvious as the day goes on

Voting someone is not attempting to provoke them. Obviously. Obviously?

49 was a sincere brag.

I think from your posting now, you probably didn't intend on it, but that is how it was received. I think 49 can be seen as a bit arrogant in the moment?

Oh for sure on both counts but there's only so much I can do about how people interpret my posts and I am a bit arrogant what's that got to do with anything lol.

the fact you can get to HERE and not to "i guess town could react this way" is mind boggling to me

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Lld if you think ythan is town and you're town, let's calm down and move on

right but calming down requires me to

i actually don't know what it requires me to do. i don't know how to calm down right now.

Breathe.

I AM breathing. I fucking am.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

sorry, fuck

[Lady Lambdadelta]

you're a good girl lld ur fine

i'm very clearly not fine lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

did you know it's 2 weeks until my surgery and i'm having constant nightmares revolving between:

1) something going wrong and it being taken away from me before I get to have it
2) fucking up the healing process and not deserving this good thing i get to have
3) dying on the operating table?

that third one likes to appear during the day with my brain telling me i only have X amount of time to live so i better make use of it

I'm very clearly not fine lmfao

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I would come back to the thread tomorrow. There should be something new by the time you wake up, no?
I imagine I'm going to be up for like 5 more hours, go to bed, and wake up to find that everyone else has posted lol

sleep is horrifying

[Lady Lambdadelta]

yeah i was trying pretttttyyyy hard not to make it a part of this game but given i spent less than an hour in the game and already am in full fucking defcon 1 i'm getting the sense that it's gonna be a part of how i am this game

i have 0 chill

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I dunno what to say other than I hope you'll be ok. I can't imagine what it's like to be you

i don't want the pity, please.

i'm like

i dunno. i keep being told by people it's all gonna be okay but i get less and less sleep every night and

i really should just shut up about this lmfao

[Lady Lambdadelta]

anyway

what i said before is still true

we should still eliminate in the 6s today and we should still never eliminate or vote in the top 4 today. Hunt there, express suspicion all you want but we're not eliminating them and we're not forcing them to a claim and doing scum's job for them. Especially when scum pick Multitasking over Informed.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD why did you pick 13?

Median was likely to be higher than lower so low numbers feel bad, felt like people will stick it on 8 and 9 a good amount of the time, so I went for a low teen prime number thining people would avoid 13 for superstition. In our discord we were between 11 and 13 and nearly picked 11, we would have been pick... 2, if we had done 11.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

We think you're trying to bait me into a flame war

didn't you start it?

No. If I'm mistaken please explain.

I feel like you basically attacked LLD for not explaining how she got to the conclusion that a wolf is in the 6s and I felt the way you did so was aimed at trying to provoke them. I felt like 49 was probably not necessary and adds just more fuel to the fire? I felt like instead of trying to see their point of view you just aimed at pushing her like they were the enemy.

You could come out with a push like this as both alignments but I think you're town. I too thought that if LLD didn't make sense she was likely a wolf in the past as well and I pushed town!LLD for the logic that she didn't make sense in the past as well but it's not like it's impossible for it to come from a wolf. I just think it's probably coming from a villager right now but I feel like if you're a villager it'll be a lot more obvious as the day goes on

Voting someone is not attempting to provoke them. Obviously. Obviously?

49 was a sincere brag.

I think from your posting now, you probably didn't intend on it, but that is how it was received. I think 49 can be seen as a bit arrogant in the moment?

Oh for sure on both counts but there's only so much I can do about how people interpret my posts and I am a bit arrogant what's that got to do with anything lol.

the fact you can get to HERE and not to "i guess town could react this way" is mind boggling to me

You know me beyond this game though. I don't buy it.

i know you less than i know my husband, girlfriend, abusive ex girlfriend when she wasn't abusive and several of my best friends.

All of whom I am not proud to say I have had this kind of anger with, and fully believed they were trying to fuck with me, often corretly, frequently when we were both town.

Hilariously in the first ever Team Mafia, GreyICE and I were on different teams in PYP, GreyICE made, as town, the argument I am making now. I, as town, didn't understand it and thought he was trying to manipulate the game. We got in a huge fight, similar to this one and then I killed him day 1. Town lost that game and he was 100% correct. He's never let me live it down.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

That seems like a big share for a fake reaction but like you're devious. Still though, gives me pause.

i would so much rather you think it never happened and kill me than think i'm town for it, or god worse think i'm scum and using it.

if i'm scum here, i'm genuinely feeling what i am describing, is the takeaway. i can be scum and genuinely feeling all of this and just tilting out of my fucking mind, i promise.

i'm town but if i was scum here this is the exact same reaction you'd get because i'm legit tilted

[Lady Lambdadelta]

tbh I picked 6 because my teammates are marashu and imaginality and I wanted to spell out the devil numbers as a team to spell out how doomed it is

don't.

ahahah

[Lady Lambdadelta]

idunno Ythan I thought the way you were interacting with LLD it seemed like you were egging her on which is why I thought that you were kind of provoking her.

because she was

because she was fishign for a reaction and got anger and thinks that the anger and frustration is scummy which i guess is their right to believe.

They keep saying they think my reaction is impossible from town, which is....

I didn't say that. I find it unbelievable that you would react to the posts I made that way and I think you're faking it which means you are scum. I think that's a worthwhile distinction.

Why is it unbelievable?

I am pretty confident she would not assume I was trying to tilt her.

I assure you I can and do, mostly thinking that you were doing it via tryign to read me and because of ego at this point and less intentionally but, yeah still do

[Lady Lambdadelta]

didn't you start it?

No. If I'm mistaken please explain.

I feel like you basically attacked LLD for not explaining how she got to the conclusion that a wolf is in the 6s and I felt the way you did so was aimed at trying to provoke them. I felt like 49 was probably not necessary and adds just more fuel to the fire? I felt like instead of trying to see their point of view you just aimed at pushing her like they were the enemy.

You could come out with a push like this as both alignments but I think you're town. I too thought that if LLD didn't make sense she was likely a wolf in the past as well and I pushed town!LLD for the logic that she didn't make sense in the past as well but it's not like it's impossible for it to come from a wolf. I just think it's probably coming from a villager right now but I feel like if you're a villager it'll be a lot more obvious as the day goes on

Voting someone is not attempting to provoke them. Obviously. Obviously?

49 was a sincere brag.

I think from your posting now, you probably didn't intend on it, but that is how it was received. I think 49 can be seen as a bit arrogant in the moment?

Oh for sure on both counts but there's only so much I can do about how people interpret my posts and I am a bit arrogant what's that got to do with anything lol.

the fact you can get to HERE and not to "i guess town could react this way" is mind boggling to me

You know me beyond this game though. I don't buy it.

i know you less than i know my husband, girlfriend, abusive ex girlfriend when she wasn't abusive and several of my best friends.

All of whom I am not proud to say I have had this kind of anger with, and fully believed they were trying to fuck with me, often corretly, frequently when we were both town.

Hilariously in the first ever Team Mafia, GreyICE and I were on different teams in PYP, GreyICE made, as town, the argument I am making now. I, as town, didn't understand it and thought he was trying to manipulate the game. We got in a huge fight, similar to this one and then I killed him day 1. Town lost that game and he was 100% correct. He's never let me live it down.

I will take the first two paragraphs to heart but the third is just an anecdote with a moral of obvious benefit to you in this situation so I'm gonna just treat that one as a manipulation tactic.

it's not manipulation it's a legitimate anecdotal evidence for why I believe what I believe, but okay

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think you're buddying Alisae too.

now this is just ridiculous

[Lady Lambdadelta]

idunno Ythan I thought the way you were interacting with LLD it seemed like you were egging her on which is why I thought that you were kind of provoking her.

because she was

because she was fishign for a reaction and got anger and thinks that the anger and frustration is scummy which i guess is their right to believe.

They keep saying they think my reaction is impossible from town, which is....

I didn't say that. I find it unbelievable that you would react to the posts I made that way and I think you're faking it which means you are scum. I think that's a worthwhile distinction.

Why is it unbelievable?

I am pretty confident she would not assume I was trying to tilt her.

I find it to be super believable. I think it was very likely that she would get tilted tbh.

She's accusing me of actively trying to tilt her, that's different from getting tilted.

Yes, I'm accusing town you of being purposefully like you were for the sake of trying to read me by my reaction and anger and at the time I was acusing scum you of doing it to blow me up and set me off my strategy. Given I now think you're town, I think town you was doing things to tilt me to get a reaction, and that is something you would do.

You can say at this point now you're no longer attempting to tilt me but you 100% were definitely trying before.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like am I known to get into fights strategically? I don't think so? I think if you know me to be combative in games I think you would know it's consistently because I get tilted.

you are from an era of gameplay that punches people in the throat and sees what shakes out

you literally are claiming my "reaction" is the scumread

and you're telling me you weren't trying to intentionally tilt me

no, more than that, you're telling me you don't think that I think you'd do this?

Fuck I used to do this. I haven't seen you play mafia in YEARS.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like am I known to get into fights strategically? I don't think so? I think if you know me to be combative in games I think you would know it's consistently because I get tilted.

you are from an era of gameplay that punches people in the throat and sees what shakes out

you literally are claiming my "reaction" is the scumread

and you're telling me you weren't trying to intentionally tilt me

no, more than that, you're telling me you don't think that I think you'd do this?

Fuck I used to do this. I haven't seen you play mafia in YEARS.

My initial vote on you was because I thought you were just spewing buzzwords with no meaning out substance. Your reaction made me dig in, butt I wasn't baiting one.

They aren't buzzwords ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

it's a logical argument about statistical likelyhoods based on prior Open Game outcomes and optimal play patterns.

You don't have to townread me for doing it, I'd do it as scum easily, but it's not scummy to want to do optimal play, nor is it buzzwordy to insist we engage in it. If you don't want to engage in it or don't trust it, engage with the argument. That was my WHOLE ASS POINT.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like am I known to get into fights strategically? I don't think so? I think if you know me to be combative in games I think you would know it's consistently because I get tilted.

you are from an era of gameplay that punches people in the throat and sees what shakes out

you literally are claiming my "reaction" is the scumread

and you're telling me you weren't trying to intentionally tilt me

no, more than that, you're telling me you don't think that I think you'd do this?

Fuck I used to do this. I haven't seen you play mafia in YEARS.

My initial vote on you was because I thought you were just spewing buzzwords with no meaning out substance. Your reaction made me dig in, butt I wasn't baiting one.

They aren't buzzwords ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

it's a logical argument about statistical likelyhoods based on prior Open Game outcomes and optimal play patterns.

You don't have to townread me for doing it, I'd do it as scum easily, but it's not scummy to want to do optimal play, nor is it buzzwordy to insist we engage in it. If you don't want to engage in it or don't trust it, engage with the argument. That was my WHOLE ASS POINT.

I do not see substance in the posts you made at that time. Unless you wanna dig into like specific examples that's all I got.

i gave you two specific examples, including the single most recently played PYP game onsite, which I referenced several times and contained precisely what I am talking about. Like every element I am talking about.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like am I known to get into fights strategically? I don't think so? I think if you know me to be combative in games I think you would know it's consistently because I get tilted.

you are from an era of gameplay that punches people in the throat and sees what shakes out

you literally are claiming my "reaction" is the scumread

and you're telling me you weren't trying to intentionally tilt me

no, more than that, you're telling me you don't think that I think you'd do this?

Fuck I used to do this. I haven't seen you play mafia in YEARS.

My initial vote on you was because I thought you were just spewing buzzwords with no meaning out substance. Your reaction made me dig in, butt I wasn't baiting one.

They aren't buzzwords ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

it's a logical argument about statistical likelyhoods based on prior Open Game outcomes and optimal play patterns.

You don't have to townread me for doing it, I'd do it as scum easily, but it's not scummy to want to do optimal play, nor is it buzzwordy to insist we engage in it. If you don't want to engage in it or don't trust it, engage with the argument. That was my WHOLE ASS POINT.

I do not see substance in the posts you made at that time. Unless you wanna dig into like specific examples that's all I got.

i gave you two specific examples, including the single most recently played PYP game onsite, which I referenced several times and contained precisely what I am talking about. Like every element I am talking about.

You made reference to another game in a way that I do not find substantive.

These are literally ONE OF THE FIRST of this version of PYP and one of the most RECENT versions of this PYP both with the elements I am talking about as evidence, showing a longitudinal basis for the understanding of the game I am describing.

I don't get how that's not Substantive.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm talking about specific examples of substantive posts you made at that stage in this thread not specific examples you made at that time.

the fuck are you talking about

i don't know remotely what you're trying to say here

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Perhaps there is something specific you said about one of those games you would like to discuss?

.

.

.

Jesus christ you're going to make me describe the outcomes of both games instead of reading them

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I hate you.

Fine.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

viewtopic.php?t=90403

In this PYP game, scum existed within the 3 grouping, pushed players at the top of the draft order to learn where power roles were to kill the cop, decidedly the scariest powerrole, and as a result nearly came back from a situation where all 3 mafia failed to obtain a single role and town only missed out on the Vigs in the draft.

It proves my point as a single evidence point regarding killing in groups where 3 or more players submit the same number and why pushing players at the top of the list is wrong, the draftign strategy of scum also proves why number theory is useful as a guider.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You sound like you're accustomed to people reading games they didn't play and if that's true I apologize for any inconvenience.

I'm accustomed to people who question the validity of statements I make doing the research to back their fucking claims instead of just running on pure ego of "well that sounds wrong"

or at least asking ANOTHER PLAYER to confirm the statements

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm barely reading this one (that's a joke)

I know you're saying you're not trying to tilt me so I'll believe you

but this is tilting me, lmfao

[Lady Lambdadelta]

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=17417

The first game of this form, with 4 players picking 6, and 2 scum in 6 pulling the PRECISE gambit I was speaking about. In 2011. This game was the proof that the scum double up gambit can and does work, if played correctly. Papa Zito ate death but Farady and Hoopla carried from there as a result.

Shows more evidence for "people with same number, statistically contains scum" and "scum can and will forgo roles to gambit together".

[Lady Lambdadelta]

viewtopic.php?t=22791

Petapan replaces in for Iamausername, scum in the group of 5 at the bottom of the draft order.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Menalque (1)
Datisi (1)
Bellaphant (19)
Cephrir (19)

LLD what do you think of the 2 1s and the 2 19s?

I was informed that Datisi always picks 1 and not to pick it this game. Like, apparently Datisi always picks 1 to trust tell levels of confidence.

It's a bit weird that Ceph AND Bella both did 19, but not more weird than me and someoen else doing 13.

It kind of makes me think Menalque is town or else wouldn't someone have told them the Datisi fact?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

viewtopic.php?t=26586

Another game showing that scum show up in groupings of 3+ often. This game, with 2 groupings, it's not as likely they show up in both, and also, showing it's not going to happen every game.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Is this fun for you, making me show you the history of this

[Lady Lambdadelta]

viewtopic.php?t=29453

Another game, another 3 stack another scum in the 3 stack of 4s (Crimini this time)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

viewtopic.php?t=36653

A game with 6 4s and no scum in them at all, a statistical ANOMALY which sort of exception proves the rule. It's not as if we just blindly kill 3 6s this game in a row, we need to read.

Also seriously 6 4s!?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Is this fun for you, making me show you the history of this

No you can stop if you want it isn't really impacting my view of what you said at game start, which is a separate thing from the elaboration you are doing now after the fact. I apologize I expect that will be frustrating.

So essentially you said "I don't believe you" and I said "okay so engage with that instead of doing this tilt based reaction shit" and now that you're finally engaging wiht it you're like "nah i don't care reaction lul"

even though i literally was asking you to do this with me the whole time. "oh this is more substantive "IT WAS HTERE FOR YOU TO READ YOU

kill me

i'm doing this the whole way now fuck you

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also it feels like you're just like looking for some kind of like baseball stats to fill space with. I don't find what you're saying compelling I think you're fluffing. Sorry!

it's almost like in a game where players must fucking pick a number and draft there's STATS INVOLVED SHOCK AWE

[Lady Lambdadelta]

viewtopic.php?t=59850

3 2s, Gangsta_Duck/AdrienC is in the triad as scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I already told you the reaction had surpassed the initial motivation of the vote!

Yes, and yet you have provided zero context for what that reaction is supposed to be.

It just feels like you have this ego trip and you don't want to be wrong because being wrong will mean you did something ridiculous and you can't have that can you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

viewtopic.php?t=61277

Another counter example. 3 7s, all town.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't think the thing lld is talking about happened in my game either, but I'm not sure I want to open that can

it's not going to happen every game but it's also literally provably happening in more games than it is not as I am showing because I've been baited into doing it.

I did already say that this is where we should look, not just blindly assume.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I already told you the reaction had surpassed the initial motivation of the vote!

Yes, and yet you have provided zero context for what that reaction is supposed to be.

It just feels like you have this ego trip and you don't want to be wrong because being wrong will mean you did something ridiculous and you can't have that can you.

Wrong. I told you I disbelieved that you would interpret my posts as intended to tilt you.

And I gave you like 3 reasons why I would, and you ignored that.

It's fine to not believe me, no actually it's not this whole fucking take of yours is so unreally beyond the pale.

but even if you don't believe me you're not progressing or responding at ALL

[Lady Lambdadelta]

viewtopic.php?t=65468

A game with 2 Quads. 4 1s, 4 2s. Scum try the double up gambit in the 2s and lose. Showing that again, this is common.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

viewtopic.php?t=70532

5 1s, 1 scum in the 1s.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I already told you the reaction had surpassed the initial motivation of the vote!

Yes, and yet you have provided zero context for what that reaction is supposed to be.

It just feels like you have this ego trip and you don't want to be wrong because being wrong will mean you did something ridiculous and you can't have that can you.

Wrong. I told you I disbelieved that you would interpret my posts as intended to tilt you.

And I gave you like 3 reasons why I would, and you ignored that.

It's fine to not believe me, no actually it's not this whole fucking take of yours is so unreally beyond the pale.

but even if you don't believe me you're not progressing or responding at ALL

I don't believe you. Sometimes your arguments are not going to be compelling enough to change people's minds.

So your plan is to pretend to engage with me while having 0 chance of actually being convinced while tunnelling me all game?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also it feels like you're just like looking for some kind of like baseball stats to fill space with. I don't find what you're saying compelling I think you're fluffing. Sorry!

If you really feel this way why are you engaging with LLD?

She's a player in the game engaging with her is more meaningful to me than waxing on about how many scum picked x number in y games.

I mean if she's a wolf as you say she is, why are you talking to her? You're giving her the impression that there are words that can be exchanged when in reality there's not

I'm not going to ignore questions and statements she directs to me. Do you honestly expect me to??

I already told you the reaction had surpassed the initial motivation of the vote!

Yes, and yet you have provided zero context for what that reaction is supposed to be.

It just feels like you have this ego trip and you don't want to be wrong because being wrong will mean you did something ridiculous and you can't have that can you.

Wrong. I told you I disbelieved that you would interpret my posts as intended to tilt you.

And I gave you like 3 reasons why I would, and you ignored that.

It's fine to not believe me, no actually it's not this whole fucking take of yours is so unreally beyond the pale.

but even if you don't believe me you're not progressing or responding at ALL

I don't believe you. Sometimes your arguments are not going to be compelling enough to change people's minds.

So your plan is to pretend to engage with me while having 0 chance of actually being convinced while tunnelling me all game?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm just gonna quote that at you every time you talk from now on if that's okay.

If the whole concept here is you're just gonna do this for the rest of the game I'm just going to do that.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

viewtopic.php?t=74021

3 1s, 3 of another number, once again 3 scum in the 1s.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Lld I hope you're not still posting those for my sake because I've already explained to you why it is irrelevant to my vote. You can't just keep posting summaries of games and expect that to be relevant. Is there some other purpose? Are you just looking busy??

I am fucking proving my fucking point.

Just because you're too fucking stuck up your own arse to understand how statistics works doesn't mean others aren't.

I'm doing it because fuck you and also because people might actually see a fucking pattern if I do this so

[Lady Lambdadelta]

If we all say we're more likely to elim a scummy player who chose six than a scummy player who chose 13, can we move on?

I agree that scum do gambit this: in my game they picked 1 and then 2/4 of the really high numbers.

No, because we should be killing in 6 today. Not like, just "oh let's read and pretend and then fucking push someone in top 4"

We should be killing in 6s today.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

viewtopic.php?t=76098

3 6s, Brassherald is scum in it.

I'm literally just going down the fucking list of games at this point.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I already told you the reaction had surpassed the initial motivation of the vote!

Yes, and yet you have provided zero context for what that reaction is supposed to be.

It just feels like you have this ego trip and you don't want to be wrong because being wrong will mean you did something ridiculous and you can't have that can you.

Wrong. I told you I disbelieved that you would interpret my posts as intended to tilt you.

And I gave you like 3 reasons why I would, and you ignored that.

It's fine to not believe me, no actually it's not this whole fucking take of yours is so unreally beyond the pale.

but even if you don't believe me you're not progressing or responding at ALL

I don't believe you. Sometimes your arguments are not going to be compelling enough to change people's minds.

So your plan is to pretend to engage with me while having 0 chance of actually being convinced while tunnelling me all game?

I told you why I think you're lying and you just keep repeating this same tired refrain. Shouting the same refrain loud enough long enough is not going to help. You keep talking about my ego but can you chill the fuck out trying to dictate that I have to believe everything you say thanks.

then don't engage with it.

I'm doing my own thing, you're the one who asked "are you still doing this because of me"

you're the one who keeps re-engaging to have the last word

[Lady Lambdadelta]

let me have the last word or admit this isn't about anythign but your ego

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Why would scum do a thing that focuses the lim pool on them tho? Especially if scum know you are in the game

Do you think scum know they're going to be tripled up when they pick?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

viewtopic.php?t=76766

counter example, 3 of a number, all town. Scum all played the "we pick big numbers" strategy though, so that's theoretically somethign.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

cause I'm comfortable enough to admit this is largely about my ego at this point

i want to prove you wrong

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm just gonna quote that at you every time you talk from now on if that's okay.

If the whole concept here is you're just gonna do this for the rest of the game I'm just going to do that.

Making excuses

You couldn't do it, could you? Couldn't let me have the last word, couldn't be the bigger woman and disengage, couldn't take your own advice.

I'm not making excuses. I'm pissed off and funelling that into trying to help town win this game.

One more chance, got it in you to disengage since you seem to think I'm lock scum and there's no changing your mind? Or will you ego respond for last word again?

And yes, this is baiting you, but I'm sincerely hoping you ARE the bigger woman because I really would like to not have to talk with someone who won't fucking even try with me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I agree with LLD's broader point about not pushing the top draft order too early. Though, it's a risk reward thing because if someone near the top is scum then they could have a role that could be worse for us if they get to use it (e.g. vig). But it seems reasonable to give them a ride through D1 at least.

I still don't get why LLD, if you think scum are gonna gambit by pairing, they'd do it on a number you say is the most likely to be picked, compared to a different number. But I don't get why you see the number distribution of "unique lowest" drafts to be relevant to this "unique median" draft anyhow.

In other news Rad feels town to me, 94 seemed to be genuinely trying to get a read on LLD.

Like now I want to tr alisea just for not shouting and sounding reasonable, and imaginality, a bit

Mood.
I was about to say the same about Bellaphont lol.

Seriously though, given the last game I was in scum won by basically outposting and talking over everyone else the whole game I am inclined to vote someone quicker this game if they are drowning out the game.

P-edit, yeah like Alisae said, make sure the interactions have value beyond "someone is wrong on the internet!"

If they do gambit on pairing, a number likely to be picked is the best place to do it. More people to hide within. They know they're already burnign their pick order to do it, right? So isn't it better to have more meat shields not less?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: Marashu
LLD this one

Sure, why not. I agree with your assessment, for the most part.

Vote: Marashu

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I've got 3 games left from the wiki to go through.

2 of the 3 of them have a scum in the 3+ grouping, the last one is another town grouping.

So I'm looking at like, 75% of games, which was what I saw coming into the game too. Enough for there to be a LEGITIMATE CLAIM but not enough to like, just blindly follow.

Like I said.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also, this whole thing has made me less want to elim two of the sixes.

yeah I know, I get it. Conflict makes you want to do the opposite of whatever is being pitched, but you'll end up cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Also, I'm not saying we should eliminate 2 sixes. We should eliminate one and react from there.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

tbh my opinion on stats is stats are not the conclusion themselves. Stats should be leading us to questions about how we got that conclusion.

tbh what I would be a lot more interested in seeing is the breakdown of the why are the stats are the way they are as opposed to "here are there stats therefore the stats must be right"

you want the reason they are that way?

if scum don't double up they pick 3 different numbers right?

humans tend to pick similar numbers in games like these becaue we have similar thoughts and out guesses. Any one townie is about as llikely as not to double or triple up.

So when there are 3 scum all picking somethign different the odds they are tripling up onto a town's double up is substantial.

The odds you pick any 3 players in general and find a scum are already a thing, but this includes a bit of logic inwhere scum are trying to avoid town but won;t always succeed and they also need to pick numbers they can justify.

It happens because scum split apart... or group up. And in either case, they end up creating clusters.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

am I going to have to deal with ythan v lld all game?

Lld vs ythan, please

Did I do something wrong? I'm sorry I'm confused

nah her point here is that somehow I'm the one fighting her. It's a reframing device to make me look like the guilty party.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

viewtopic.php?t=22791

Petapan replaces in for Iamausername, scum in the group of 5 at the bottom of the draft order.

viewtopic.php?t=70532

5 1s, 1 scum in the 1s.

Both of those examples had 1 scum out of the group of 5. They are actually counter examples. 1/5 is

less

likely to hit scum than 3/13 random chance.

It makes me doubt whether you genuinely are motivated by your statistical analysis here, because if you were you wouldn't describe those games as evidence in favour of it?

the point is scum end up in large groups of 3 or more when the groups collide in number.

Not that it's more likely than any random chance.

The point is because these groups trend towards the bottom of the graph they are good D1 elimination pools by design because thye more often than not contain scum and aren't revealing town power structure.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

tbh my opinion on stats is stats are not the conclusion themselves. Stats should be leading us to questions about how we got that conclusion.

tbh what I would be a lot more interested in seeing is the breakdown of the why are the stats are the way they are as opposed to "here are there stats therefore the stats must be right"

you want the reason they are that way?

if scum don't double up they pick 3 different numbers right?

humans tend to pick similar numbers in games like these becaue we have similar thoughts and out guesses. Any one townie is about as llikely as not to double or triple up.

So when there are 3 scum all picking somethign different the odds they are tripling up onto a town's double up is substantial.

The odds you pick any 3 players in general and find a scum are already a thing, but this includes a bit of logic inwhere scum are trying to avoid town but won;t always succeed and they also need to pick numbers they can justify.

It happens because scum split apart... or group up. And in either case, they end up creating clusters.

I could understand it with a number like 1 but I can't understand it with a number like 6 unless whoever is a wolf just didn't think about it, which I think it something that would say something a lot bigger as a whole about the wolf team.

Any wolf could think like you did, Ali. How are you having this take when you literally admitted that you thought no one would take 6 because 6 is always taken.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

am I going to have to deal with ythan v lld all game?

Lld vs ythan, please

Did I do something wrong? I'm sorry I'm confused

nah her point here is that somehow I'm the one fighting her. It's a reframing device to make me look like the guilty party.

oh
so the only thing it's doing is it's adding fuel to the fire?

yup

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also if the game is moving this fast then imma be honest, I’m probably not gonna be playing that much until like d3 when numbers have gone down

Ythan and LLD have been fighting a lot for the past few pages and it REALLY added a lot to the thread and I'm not happy with it. It shows no signs of stopping which is

is Mena town or scum?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also if the game is moving this fast then imma be honest, I’m probably not gonna be playing that much until like d3 when numbers have gone down

Ythan and LLD have been fighting a lot for the past few pages and it REALLY added a lot to the thread and I'm not happy with it. It shows no signs of stopping which is

is Mena town or scum?

gun to head town?

Okay.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also if the game is moving this fast then imma be honest, I’m probably not gonna be playing that much until like d3 when numbers have gone down

Ythan and LLD have been fighting a lot for the past few pages and it REALLY added a lot to the thread and I'm not happy with it. It shows no signs of stopping which is

also like, half my posting has been doing game solving with you so

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Keep that ego wrapped up tight lol.

jesus fucking christ help me

hey not to make it worse but i'm like, done done

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also if the game is moving this fast then imma be honest, I’m probably not gonna be playing that much until like d3 when numbers have gone down

Ythan and LLD have been fighting a lot for the past few pages and it REALLY added a lot to the thread and I'm not happy with it. It shows no signs of stopping which is

also like, half my posting has been doing game solving with you so

You two trying awfully hard to cast the thread thus far in a certain light.

you're the worst.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

yep, that's me, i'm the bad guy, you're the good one. you win. you did nothing wrong and i'm a relentless bitch.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

not when you continued to berate and bait me, but it was REALLY important that everyone know you didn't mean it.

not when i asked you to disengage about 3 times but you couldn't bring yourself to do it

not when alisae was complaining about our argument and you needed to chirp in to remind everyone explicitly that i was the worst

and not now when you're describing my interactions with another player as gross and paiting the thread for... attempting to solve the game and not further clog the thread with this.

i tried to walk away. i tried to be done.

and you're still out here making it personal but pretending it isn't and then any response i give you're gonna do this whole song and dance about how much of the victim you are so...

do your dance, please. i'm done. you win. i'm a piece of shit and you're a brillliant hero for standing up to me and putting me in my place.

come get your sash and crown

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I would dm you or something but ongoing game, can you please remember that that's what we're doing here and that I personally like you a lot and that while I suspect you are lying to me I just want to play a game with you and find all the hostility pretty hurtful.

<3

and how will it feel when you find out i'm not lying

[Lady Lambdadelta]

gonna blame the end result on me? I'm the bad guy after all, maybe it's my fault that I convinced you I was scum and if i'd only tried just a little harder i could have redeemed myself but no, it's my own damn fault, right?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

the worst part is the check-ins from you where you keep telling me like "oh it's a game, i like you a lot"

that's the worst part

because some part of me goes "right this is supposed to be my friend"

and then i read another snide backhanded potshot or go back and read the "please, LLD vs Ythan" bit, and I just don't know what to do.

I'm legitimately hurt. I'm frustrated, I'm tired, I can't sleep, and you're asking me to check back in with you that everything is okay.

i'd fucking like it to be, personally. i'd love if the line between game and not game was there for me right now and i could go "yep, this is where it is and it's a game".

but I'm struggling with everything right now. I'm on about 4-6 hours of sleep in the past 72. I'm not asking for anyone's fucking pity or to townread me because i'm a fucking meltdown away from a psychotic break, but i told you this,

Friend

and you kept pushing it anyway, to the point of breaking.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i want to tell you "yes, it's okay, we're friends and even if i'm really upset with you right now it's going to be fine"

but i can't seem to write that without bursting into tears and getting angry?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

and it's because you keep bringing it up that it hurts more

you say it and then you do the "lld is the villain" thing

you say it in the same breath as all of this

i call you the worst, the tamest possible thing i could say to you in that cirucmstance. trying my best to just... deescalate and calm myself and you still post that whole thing and then turn around like "it's just a game"

it's supposed to be, it is. it's just a game so why do i feel like this

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think it’s an emotional read because it doesn’t make sense. LLD wants to kill the 6s. That includes me.
Sure we could be playing off each other, but if this was our aim why would she aim to put me in her wolf pool? That doesn’t make sense. I imagine she would want to keep me alive if we’re wolves together.

Like it’s a read I feel like doesn’t really take into consideration what LLD wants to actually do. I can see a read like this coming from a wolf but I really don’t think that’s the case. I think this is a read that is likely to come from town.

the read makes some kind of sense, i did say i had a reason for not going after you first, it's not the logic of the read, though the logic for the reads is bad

it's the constant positioning where i get baited to be the badguy, i get tilted and frustrated and wound up and it's my own fucking fault for not being more capable of putting a fucking clamp on my emotions and getting myself wound up

the read makes sense, if Ythan believes I'm scum, though Ythan did earlier say he thought I was buddying you so ? that's a bit weird but it's whatever

it's all invalidated by how i'm being right now

people will look at this, get frustrated with my reaction over ythan's much more reasonable looking ones and just kill me

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think it’s an emotional read because it doesn’t make sense. LLD wants to kill the 6s. That includes me.
Sure we could be playing off each other, but if this was our aim why would she aim to put me in her wolf pool? That doesn’t make sense. I imagine she would want to keep me alive if we’re wolves together.

Like it’s a read I feel like doesn’t really take into consideration what LLD wants to actually do. I can see a read like this coming from a wolf but I really don’t think that’s the case. I think this is a read that is likely to come from town.

I'm kind of here but I really/really/really don't want to spend the next 100 pages arguing about whether we should elim only in the sixes, when the answer is only 'maybe'.

Is it optimal? Possibly. Is it correct in this game? Slightly less possibly. Are we ever going to get everyone to do it?

Impossible.

So let's start scum hunting instead?

it's not only, it's one day. One day!

The Day One Elimination Should Be A 6. That's ALL. Read them, read the whole game, but pick the 6 you scumread the most and kill them, at the end of the day.

That's what I'm pitching. Tomorrow, we react to night results to the day 1 flip to... all of it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

if anything aren't the 6s less likely to be scum cause no coordination? like scum wouldn't pile on the number 6

no that's

again scum don't know what numbers town pick

so if scum split into 3 different numbers the odds that one of those numbers hits a triple up is much higher than any townie hitting it, by 3:1. Coincidentally about the historical odds that groups of 3+ same number pickers contain at least 1 scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

fuck i'm gonna come off as condescending becuase i'm frustrated

sorry in advance, gimli

[Lady Lambdadelta]

that's an adaptation from our prior open game, trying to not...

this feels like the "town must follow confirmed town" thing all over again so i'm trying to explain it without being condescending but i'm struggling

[Lady Lambdadelta]

On seconds thoughts sorry, I’m irritable because I’m so low on sleep but pls see that this is not healthy for the game no matter how important you think what you have to say is, please tone it down a bit

i'd be a hypocrite if i said i didn't understand this at this point, you're fine, trust me you're fine compared to my mess rn

i'm trying to tone it down, i'm not succeeding lol, but i'm trying

[Lady Lambdadelta]

if anything aren't the 6s less likely to be scum cause no coordination? like scum wouldn't pile on the number 6

no that's

again scum don't know what numbers town pick

so if scum split into 3 different numbers the odds that one of those numbers hits a triple up is much higher than any townie hitting it, by 3:1. Coincidentally about the historical odds that groups of 3+ same number pickers contain at least 1 scum.

that just makes 6 the number people picked the most.

otoh the 6 is also the number that contains more townies, cause if scum splitted then its 2/3 or 3/3 town in it

while lets say a number that was only picked once has 0 or 1 scum and 0 or 1 town

you're just discovering 6 was the most picked number in the game and 'figuring out' its more likely to contain scum while forgetting its just the one with the most *PEOPLE* in it

given last time you were extremely loud like this about wanting to control things you were scum, and this is clearly not how to scumhunt, I'll go ahead and ignore it from this point forward since I just explained why I think its wrong

so, okay

any leans on anyone, LLD?

the last time i was this loud about wanting to control things was the open Lavos game we just played where you were scum and I was town. That I just referenced.

Also, your logic is wrong.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Your response doesnt really address my point, lld.

I get what you are saying, trust me. But that's kinda ...not the point.

oh i get the point, i get that people aren't gonna do it, but if people are just going to ignore a swath of historical evidence about these kinds of games i struggle to understand why people picked to play the open in the first place.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

that's an adaptation from our prior open game, trying to not...

this feels like the "town must follow confirmed town" thing all over again so i'm trying to explain it without being condescending but i'm struggling

I was baiting you in the other game a little cause I was scum

I didn't rep out of election because of you, I repped out because the entire thread was being condescending

I'm not flipping people because they chose a number anyway

see this i believe

you don't care if it's logically right or not, do you. you just want to play how you want to play.

just... say that, then. Like, it's harder to read you when you tell me some bad logic that I can't parse. If you just want to play counter to the open's historical evidence just... say it and go for it, please.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The other issue is, if people are impressionable, like me, the only take away they are gonna have is that the 'reasonable' responses (me, imag, alissy, gimli) are town, and those aren't even particularly good takes!

trying to find nice words

okay

i'm well aware that you only respond to people who speak to you softly and kindly. It's frustrating for me because it means I need to put on a fake mask just to convince you of something.

That said, what makes those "not particularly good takes?"

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I like 94, 98, 108 from Rad and 358 from Bellaphant (Bella is okay?)

Rad for sticking to his own methodology for getting the read and for being a bit obstinate about it

Bella for trying to move the game on

Imaginality seems fine but the last game with him where he was SK he made a lot of reasonable posts with good tone so not really leaning him anywhere yet

Datisi has done exactly what I expected as either alignment which is null but encouraging to me when it comes to my capacity for prediction lol

@lld thanks for the effort. I’ve asked Bingle about the numbers thing and I’ll probably decide if I want to weight that group as more likely to have scum largely based on what he says

i struggle to give rad too much of a town read for going "lld emotional looks town" but i don't think rad knows me so it's...

my gut says i want rad to be town my brain screams i'll get burned if i lock that in

[Lady Lambdadelta]

lmk what bingle says

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I am EMBARASSED >_<
I am probably BLUSHING x_x

i stg I'm going to kill you if you keep pinging me like this

[Lady Lambdadelta]

day 1 bad idea or not

[Lady Lambdadelta]

wait

so my team said datisi picks 1 every time, why did you pick 1 mena

[Lady Lambdadelta]

In a 3 vs. 10, the probability of an arbitrary group of three players containing at least one scum is 58% (I suspect imaginality had the right calculation and just forgot to subtract from 1).

I'd be interested in hearing from everyone on why you picked the number you picked, if anyone hasn't already answered that. For myself, I briefly glanced at a couple of the previous PYP S_S games to get a feel for it but didn't rely on it all that much (since the rule here is different, there's less incentive to stick to lower numbers; in fact, I suspected the median would be closer to matching the number of players). I did consider submitting some absurdly high number that isn't special to mathematics (like, on the order of TREE(3) or some insane function like that, but not specifically a number people might know) to guarantee no clashing, and hey, that would've turned out exactly the same.

i agree with that as the base calculation, live evidence from past games suggests the number is higher in triplicate number choices, as would a cursory glance at scum selection choices and the kind of logic that is put in by scum to their choices.

Not sure I really agree that median over lowest number changes the outcomes of this in any way besides where the optimal target numbers end up. Some people will do your thinking and aim to be solo feeling people will pair, some people will go low thinking median will drive people away, in a similar strategy, it's... not that different to "some people will pick 9, thinking it will beat anyone who goes omega high but no one will flock to that higher single digit number".

it's a fractional edge over picking 3 names at random from a strictly maths standpoint but that edge is increased IMO by the psychology of how the game is played and further redoubled in usefulness by not revealing town power structure via claims overmuch, especially when Scum chose Multitasking over informed, so they are decently in the dark, some info assuredly but a good chance they're missing a few different high power info roles they have to play around as a result.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

also I managed another 4 hours of sleep, which has helped me slightly but i can already feel the edges of my mind tearing at themselves so i might take a break for a day or two and come back to this when i'm not actually losing my mind?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

reads wise Ceph feels funky to me, I'm upgrading Rad to a bit more town, and I remain very confident Ythan is town.

I have some other reads but I'm a little worried about them because I can't tell what is a good read and what is brainburn.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

my team reads right now include

a complete Ythan agreement, a dissonance on Bella (some of them think leaning on Klick is scummy, some of them think it's in character for Bella) a lot of null reads on Rad that I think I'm slightly higher town on then they are and an observation that Maru's slow start is typical for them and I should be cautious to scumread them for just a bad string of opening posts.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

okay, that's about all i think i can manage for the moment without diving off the deep end again, apologies for the mess my brain is in, life isn't easy right now, i spent like an hour this morning staring at food before remembering i was meant to do something with it

i'll probably check in periodically without posting to keep reading and stay current with the thread so if people end up with specific questions i'll probably answer them? i'm not good at not posting, so this is the compromise to keep myself out a bit.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I learned my lesson about assuming LLD emotions = town so I will not be doing that this game

this is a weird statement, i'm pretty sure you learned this lesson many moons ago. what new version of this lesson prompted this?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'll just respond to this directly rather than making a massive wall picking apart previous posts.

i agree with that as the base calculation, live evidence from past games suggests the number is higher in triplicate number choices, as would a cursory glance at scum selection choices and the kind of logic that is put in by scum to their choices.

Apologies if I missed this, but have you actually provided statistics on this evidence? I saw you reference a couple of specific games, which is not compelling (could be cherry-picking, deliberately or not).

it's a fractional edge over picking 3 names at random from a strictly maths standpoint but that edge is increased IMO by the psychology of how the game is played and further redoubled in usefulness by not revealing town power structure via claims overmuch, especially when Scum chose Multitasking over informed, so they are decently in the dark, some info assuredly but a good chance they're missing a few different high power info roles they have to play around as a result.

1. I agree with you on the point about not revealing town powers this early. This is a good reason to not go after the singletons day 1.

2. Regarding the maths, there could be a small edge over picking 3 names at random, but there is a

larger

edge in picking scum from the singletons*.

I couldn't help myself and put together a little simulation; it's of course difficult to simulate a problem like this because of the psychology of closest unique to median (or lowest, in the other games), so I've simplified the problem as follows: 3 Mafia, 10 Town, town is picking randomly from a set of 10 numbers (10 is completely arbitrary here), Mafia is picking 0, 1, and 2:

Simulating 60000 games gave the following results:

Code: Select all

#     Mafia    Overall  Percentage       Expected
1     62960    226144	0.278406679	0.230769231
2     69553    150756	0.461361405	0.423076923
3     34894     59043	0.590993005	0.58041958
4     10285     14968	0.687132549	0.706293706
5      1992      2606	0.76438987	0.804195804
6       283       341	0.829912023	0.877622378

In this simulation, the probability of Mafia appearing in a group of 3 is up to 59% vs. 58% for an arbitrary set of 3 players. There's nothing particularly special about the groups of 3 though; overall, Mafia are more likely to avoid grouping (compared to an arbitrary selection of 3) because they are picking unique numbers compared to each other.

Additionally, we have the specific knowledge of how the numbers split. I would expect the likelihood of Mafia in specifically the one triplet

with the knowledge that we have the partition that we do

is actually slightly lower than 58%. (This follows directly from knowing the edge for singletons and pairs in the full simulation is much more significant.) Might write some code for this later just as an interesting math question; I just don't consider it all that relevant to the game.

* All of this depends on the likelihood of a scum gambit being negligible, of course. (Though I would guess that if we were 100% sure of a scum gambit with a singleton and a pair, it would be more likely mathematically for the pair to be on their own rather than as part of a triple?)

3. The "IMO" here seems like a far cry from your earlier rhetoric on this. (That said, I have really only skimmed the earlier argument at this point.)

------

Anyway, that's probably all the maths I will be doing on this (at least for the game, it's an interesting problem!). I'm not likely to base anything on how the numbers happened to fall beyond things like "we know Ythan has a role, we know Staeg likely has a role, etc., forcing a claim out of these slots day 1 would be counterproductive".

Initial reads coming later, I should probably get some work done. But in the meantime,
VOTE: Lady Lambdadelta

I didn't cherry pick, I actually went to the MS wiki of X/Y PYP and went through the listed games one by one and sought out whether the pattern fit or did not fit in specific games, leaving games where there were no large groupings out, and mentioning examples that didn't fit the pattern

the IMO here is me trying to scale back the insanity going on in my brain right now. I'm pretty confident I'm right in this but if people don't see it then what use is screaming confidently until I lose my mind?

Scum Gambit has happened enough times historically in my review to not be negilgable.

Look, I encourage you to do the review yourself if you think I'm cherry picking or using the argument to obfuscate.

I feel like assertions that the chance there is at least one scum in the triplicate being LESS than the odds of picking 3 scum at random from 13 are provably wrong by the meta review I've done.

Like I feel as if I have people quoting mathematial theory at me that doesn't hold up in practice and I've gone through and done the practical review of all the games I have access to in history of site that I can readily get my hands on.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

like part of the maths people are running is saying "Well how likely is it for scum to make a triplicate" but is ignoring that a triplicate has already been made.

So the percentage isn't "how likely is it for scum to make a triplicate" it's "if a triplicate is made, how likely is it that scum are a part of it?"

That feels like the thing people are overlooking. A large portion of the odds where scum don't end up in a triplicate are already removed. It's did 3 townies select the same number, or did 2 townies select the same number and a spread scum slot into them because scum didn't double up, or did 2 scum slot themselves together and colide with a townie to make a triplicate.

The maths are relevant and suggest a slight edge towards eliminating in the triplicate today but if we're not doing the maths, just going as simple as possible and going "hitting from the bottom group where roles aren't likely to exist and role choices aren't likely to inform scum in anyway is optimal" is already a good reason to be looking to eliminate there if you can find scum there.

If someone ends up looking at the 6s and going "I town read all these slots, I won't kill them" I'm not going to expect that player to then vote there unless it's deadline compromise. But having to outright state "I townread all these slots" as opposed to "I just don't want to do this, so I won't" as a way to ignore those slots is a measurable difference in information for town to use.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Anyway that's all the stuff that I've been quoted in/referenced by, so I'm out again

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I learned my lesson about assuming LLD emotions = town so I will not be doing that this game

this is a weird statement, i'm pretty sure you learned this lesson many moons ago. what new version of this lesson prompted this?

maybe emotions is the wrong word how about emotional vibes

im talking about the previous version of this setup we played in. i didn't think your opening there was likely to come from scum you and it did

anyway you're right that this isn't super relevant to anything and idk why im talking about it

right the "Chill having fun with friends being happy" LLD that came as a calm before the storm of "12 days from surgical prep unable to sleep horrified at the possible bad outcomes" LLD that is probably much less fun to play with.

Yeah, neither were particularly influenced by any specific game choice. They're... facts of my current existence. I'd apologize for them if I felt like I could. Regardless of my rolled alignment... it's just where I am right now. I don't like it, but it's what I have to work with.

So I'm trying to work on managing my expectations and keeping my chill in a game where normally you're supposed to be able to turn off but I can't turn off and every small slight feels like a world ending threat.

Scum, town... you'll need to find me some other way. It's just how things are, right now.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I am EMBARASSED >_<
I am probably BLUSHING x_x

i stg I'm going to kill you if you keep pinging me like this

no please not this fucking emote again

[Lady Lambdadelta]

my team reads right now include

a complete Ythan agreement, a dissonance on Bella (some of them think leaning on Klick is scummy, some of them think it's in character for Bella) a lot of null reads on Rad that I think I'm slightly higher town on then they are and an observation that Maru's slow start is typical for them and I should be cautious to scumread them for just a bad string of opening posts.

Why would leaning on Klick be wolfy?
I feel like regardless of alignment, Bella would try to show that Klick is participating.

I'll ask Ydra

[Lady Lambdadelta]

What would ping you about 387 though that's what I wanna know.

you want to know?

fine, i'm shite at holding my cards to my chest when i'm feeling this poor anyway

you're performing vulnerability at a player who responds most strongly to sincerity and may not always be able to tell if it's fake or not. Maybe town you knows what you're doing and it's fine, maybe you even mean and enjoy it.

But there's no world you aren't clever enough to understand what you are doing, and it's obfuscated too much for my liking. I'm getting a ping from you because you're doing it in a way that slips beneath notice instead of a more overt way.

It scares me to see you do subtle manipulations like that. I know how chaos you are, but I also know how you plan as mafia, I just saw it. I'm the reign back and you're the aggressor and this is the move the aggressor makes for thread control and positonal advantage.

I don't think it's imopssible for you to do as town, or even that you do it MORE as scum than town, I guess? If I felt that way I'd be voting you right now.

I feel that the more subtle way you went about it gives me shivers and makes me worry you're steps ahead of me in this game, especially with how pariah i've become.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also I thought their posts were not structured to get townread

Pedit aah words

aah words?

like it's not even a conversation to you, you get to read it at your pleasure lol >.>

[Lady Lambdadelta]

tbh I just posted in that way because that's just how I felt in the moment. Bella misspelling my name in like 3 different ways after I said something about it comes off as playful teasing and I thought it was cute.
tbh 387 I feel like is a post I wouldn't try to read me from. I feel like there would probably be easier things I do you could grab onto to try to form a read.

I think you know well enough I'm going to try and read people from things they don't police and polish more than things they do.

And as I said, it's just a ping. Everyone pings me now and again, though not everyone makes me as paranoid as you do.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also I thought their posts were not structured to get townread

Pedit aah words

aah words?

like it's not even a conversation to you, you get to read it at your pleasure lol >.>

I acknowledge pedits and then don't read them

so you make me feel guilty for nothing b'y?

dfdgsa ahaha

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think you know well enough I'm going to try and read people from things they don't police and polish more than things they do.

you really think this is the best way to go about reading me?

Yes. At least on Day 1.

The best way to read you is to see if the things you believe in are right or wrong and then read in the liminal space around you that you leave and how others are aligned and iteract with you, like I did in Anything UPick where I read you right and you read me wrong.

But that's like... do you know how much I need to be able to do that? It's like determining the size and shape of a black hole by the way that it draws light around it. I need enough data from the light to know what the fuck I'm looking at.

So instead I'm looking at things that seem more shields down, putting myself in your shoes, adding a twist of inhibition removal and asking myself why you do these things.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Intent and motivation from situations where you're not able to be shields up about it to get initial impressions which can inform later confidences.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also I thought their posts were not structured to get townread

Pedit aah words

aah words?

like it's not even a conversation to you, you get to read it at your pleasure lol >.>

I acknowledge pedits and then don't read them

so you make me feel guilty for nothing b'y?

dfdgsa ahaha

Not intentionally

this one was a joke

i'm trying to still be able to make those

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also I feel honored that you feel like my wolf game is good enough to make you paranoid?

it's funny

there's a post from Untrod Tripod somewhere on this site where he says "LLD once told me I carried a game as scum and it is the single highest compliment I've ever gotten in a mafia game before" in a thread about the GOAT of mafia some years back.

And that comment always made me feel warm inside? like... someone respected me so much that when I, rightly so, told them they played super well and carried a game (Justified Season 2 IIRC) they felt elated and complimented because of my stature.

this reminds me a lot of that and is making me feel similarly warm and happy and teary and stuff.

which sucks because i'm going to have to then eject it fromm my brain to try and be unbiased on you and read you this game

but i'll try and tap back into that happy emotion once I know your alignment one way or another?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Anyway I don't think I wanna vote anyone who picked 6 so I think I'm probably just going to sit on my hands until more happens ig.
Honestly I thought I would wake up and the game would be more eventful than it currently is

Your thinking and your teams' thinking is Imagine and Maru are both town?

Sell me on it, please.

Like I said, I'm not a fucking lunatic. er, actually i take that back, I am a lunatic but I'm not incapable of adaptation. If people think the 6s are all town on play we can look elsewhere but I just don't see that yet.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't think I'm good at fooling people
I think I'm good at getting what I want but I consistently get put into situations where I just get boxed in and can't crawl out

I just won a game where I as a wolf always had full control of the game.
D1 I basically convinced multiple town to stack a bunch of votes and end the day on Imaginality way earlier than they should have.
D2 I force ended day.
D3 I faked a guilty
D4 I got the target I wanted dead dead
D5 I won by waring down a PB that knew I was a wolf but he couldn't kill me so he decided to just compromise on what I wanted him to compromise on.

I know I was a big part of this but you literally scumclaimed by being a doctor on the night a confirmed town cop was shot and then lived through ELO anyway.

where's the yellow emote, I need it right now

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Shirou wanted me to butt heads with you but after I explained that I like to support you in earlier phases while keeping a careful eye, he backed down

lol

true friend fr fr

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD could be intentionally not posting though if they feel like they're a wolf in control of the gamestate.
One of the things she wanted me to take away from Election is that as a wolf, playing your hand reactively and not playing when you don't need to play and only playing it when you're in trouble and you need to move the thread in the direction you want it to go is quite a powerful strategy

oh yes b'y i'm in control of this game state

how can you legitimately believe this when 1) I posted all of yesterday when I said I wouldn't and 2) I'm attempting to detilt and bring the thread back to normal levels.

I'm reading along and trying to let things besides me exist because of anger.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

more importantly, Ali, this tinfoil hat theory you've got going on is never killing anyone in the top 4 given how many epople came out in support of not doing that today.

So voting Staeg is something you need to know is fruitless.

So I'm just going to ask you plainly. Is this a setup to find a reason to vote me by proxy without having to flip onto me day 1 with 0 trajectory?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Cause I'll tell you what

you want to pursue this theory, I'll "bus" Rad right here right now I could not give less of a fuck.

I still believe it's very likely there is a scum in the 6s given how things have played out, but if it means people's theories about me get cornered down and I can't have these crack pot "LLD is gambiting" theories going on, then let's just go for it.

If Rad's town, you listen to me tomorrow and we murder someone who actually might flip scum.

If Rad's scum tomorrow, I'll embrace sweet death for the sake of paranoia remvoval on the understanding my reads be listened to once I die.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

But we're not killing voting or running up anyone in the top 4 today, and attempts to accomplish this by making weird associative tells on day 1 in an unflipped game is anti-town behaviour

[Lady Lambdadelta]

So go on, Ali. Make your choice.

If you want to pursue this theory, vote Rad and I'll ride that wave with you.

Otherwise, I'm real confused what you're trying to accomplish here unless this is some kind of attempt to pivot onto me because you think I'm killable today (I am, I very much am and am seeing a lot of lines where I just die today)

But you're currently stated as someone who is standing in the way of that and suddenly swapping would look weird so we're not going to have this whole excuse.

If you vote me, and I flip town Ali, you die tomorrow.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@LLD any reason you're super comfortable taking out #5 but definitely not one of the top 4?

There's an arbitrary cutoff line at some point. I think that around pick 5 your ability to say "I will pick this powerful ability and get it" diminishes a lot, and it doesn't tell that much.

Personally, I'd still prefer to kill a 6 today. It's not changed.

But this is... let's say this is me calling Alisae's bluff and being fully willing to followthough.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD could be intentionally not posting though if they feel like they're a wolf in control of the gamestate.
One of the things she wanted me to take away from Election is that as a wolf, playing your hand reactively and not playing when you don't need to play and only playing it when you're in trouble and you need to move the thread in the direction you want it to go is quite a powerful strategy

oh yes b'y i'm in control of this game state

how can you legitimately believe this when 1) I posted all of yesterday when I said I wouldn't and 2) I'm attempting to detilt and bring the thread back to normal levels.

I'm reading along and trying to let things besides me exist because of anger.

I townread
Ceph
mith
Bella
Marashu
Imaginality
Ythan
Gimli

I am also townleaning Datisi because I think if Datisi is a wolf they're a bit more cooperative and right now I am getting feelings I got in the Micro I just played with them where I shitpushed them as a wolf and I suggested a massclaim and they told me your mech is stupid and doesn't tell me anything and they were masons with the mason who was informed of the same information I was informed.

That's a...stupidly long run on sentence...

But like that's like, 7 solid townreads
Datisi and Mena is pending, but I townlean Datisi.

ok so that's 9 town
who does that have me left with?

right

so you're casually trying to PoE solve the game with 0 flips because you're so confident you have 0 scum in those 9 town that you think you can just... do this?

Same thing as I said above, Ali.

If you vote me today, and I flip town, you need to die tomorrow.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@LLD any reason you're super comfortable taking out #5 but definitely not one of the top 4?

There's an arbitrary cutoff line at some point. I think that around pick 5 your ability to say "I will pick this powerful ability and get it" diminishes a lot, and it doesn't tell that much.

Personally, I'd still prefer to kill a 6 today. It's not changed.

But this is... let's say this is me calling Alisae's bluff and being fully willing to followthough.

I guess my problem is your arbitrary cutoff point (agree, it's arbitrary) goes from DO NOT TOUCH THESE PLAYERS to FUCK THIS GUY instantly. I'd kinda expect a bit more of a slow drop off between #4 and #5 ya know? Like... "I really don't want to murder #5 just in case they're town and got a good PR but ehhhh if I must to prove a point..."

I really don't care. This conversation you're trying to have is, as I understand it, trying to save yourself or paint me to look worse but what you have to understand is that I would happily kill a 6 today.

I'm calling Alisae's bluff. That's the beginnign and end of this.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Infact, let me change happily to "enthusiastically" kill a 6 today.

But I have very little thread control, I'm at the bottom of read lists and I'm essentially LHF this game but I still trust my reads and my alignment more than yours so if I'm going to corner Alisae, and she's trying to kill a top 4 which is STRICTLY WRONG then I'll happily kill you instead and see if she wants to take that.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

If you vote me, and I flip town Ali, you die tomorrow.

I don't want to flip you. I actually want to be able to call you town confidentially as soon as I am able if you're town. If anything you're like, null.

Accusing you is not something I take lightly. You're the type of player where if you're wolf, you're playing to some kind of gameplan and there will be pieces that support that gameplan somehow. In a sense, to accuse you I feel like I have to flip the chessboard around. I have to see what I feel like you would see and I have to identify your strategy, all of the pieces. If you're mafia, what's your gameplan and your strategy? I need to be able to identify these things to confidentially call you mafia.

It's really draining to accuse you otherwise.
I want you to tell me who the mafia is. Do you think Rad is likely to be mafia?

yes and I'm trying to figure out if this is Election "let me post this thing that is chaotic and makes me look townie while advancing my objectives" alisae or Anything UPick "I'm going nuts with wild theories that end in me QUICK HAMMERING A FORMER TOWNREAD OF MINE" Alisae.

and calling your bluff is one way to see how this goes.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@LLD any reason you're super comfortable taking out #5 but definitely not one of the top 4?

There's an arbitrary cutoff line at some point. I think that around pick 5 your ability to say "I will pick this powerful ability and get it" diminishes a lot, and it doesn't tell that much.

Personally, I'd still prefer to kill a 6 today. It's not changed.

But this is... let's say this is me calling Alisae's bluff and being fully willing to followthough.

I guess my problem is your arbitrary cutoff point (agree, it's arbitrary) goes from DO NOT TOUCH THESE PLAYERS to FUCK THIS GUY instantly. I'd kinda expect a bit more of a slow drop off between #4 and #5 ya know? Like... "I really don't want to murder #5 just in case they're town and got a good PR but ehhhh if I must to prove a point..."

I really don't care. This conversation you're trying to have is, as I understand it, trying to save yourself or paint me to look worse but what you have to understand is that I would happily kill a 6 today.

I'm calling Alisae's bluff. That's the beginnign and end of this.

Yes I would like to save myself, please, thank you.

Let's arbitrarily move the line and say flipping the top 5 is a shit idea and we should start at #6 if we're trying to prove LLD/Rad isn't paired.

hey congratulations you've learned self preservation

have you answered your own fucking question yet or do I need to continue to spell this out until the drumbeat in my head drives me mad again

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Readwise I think Rad's reaction to this is town, if only because it comes across as the townie panic when you think you're about to die and not the scum controlled removal of pressure/redirect/leaning on scumbuddies to make sure somehting doens't happen.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Personally I think Mith is being far to hands off in how he reads me. There's not a lot of confidence in there which admittedly years away can provide but there's just something inside me that screams "this is a player who is pushing me as their main choice to die today and is hedging their take on my slot the whole way.

They describe how my "Reaction" is bad but that's the second person in this game to vote me on a reaction and barely explain why it's bad. Ythan, at least, I believe sees something she doesn't like.

But I'm struggling with Mith.

So why are you townreading Mith, Ali?

Again, however Mith is top 4 so I'm not voting there today.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

anyway I'm gonna go use the bathroom and then get back to my majora's mask randomizer so I'm gonna disappear for a while, but if I had to GTH pick 3 scum....

[Lady Lambdadelta]

1-2 you/Maru
1-2 in Mith/Staeg/Cephrir/Gimli

if it's 1 in you/maru it's 2 in below, vice versa if it's 2 in you/maru

[Lady Lambdadelta]

If you vote me, and I flip town Ali, you die tomorrow.

I don't want to flip you. I actually want to be able to call you town confidentially as soon as I am able if you're town. If anything you're like, null.

Accusing you is not something I take lightly. You're the type of player where if you're wolf, you're playing to some kind of gameplan and there will be pieces that support that gameplan somehow. In a sense, to accuse you I feel like I have to flip the chessboard around. I have to see what I feel like you would see and I have to identify your strategy, all of the pieces. If you're mafia, what's your gameplan and your strategy? I need to be able to identify these things to confidentially call you mafia.

It's really draining to accuse you otherwise.
I want you to tell me who the mafia is. Do you think Rad is likely to be mafia?

yes and I'm trying to figure out if this is Election "let me post this thing that is chaotic and makes me look townie while advancing my objectives" alisae or Anything UPick "I'm going nuts with wild theories that end in me QUICK HAMMERING A FORMER TOWNREAD OF MINE" Alisae.

and calling your bluff is one way to see how this goes.

Why do you think Rad might be mafia?
Do you also have anyone else you think might be mafia?

I don't think Rad's mafia, and you're asking questions you are already getting answers to, so....

[Lady Lambdadelta]

1-2 you/Maru
1-2 in Mith/Staeg/Cephrir/Gimli

if it's 1 in you/maru it's 2 in below, vice versa if it's 2 in you/maru

Personally I think Mith is being far to hands off in how he reads me. There's not a lot of confidence in there which admittedly years away can provide but there's just something inside me that screams "this is a player who is pushing me as their main choice to die today and is hedging their take on my slot the whole way.

They describe how my "Reaction" is bad but that's the second person in this game to vote me on a reaction and barely explain why it's bad. Ythan, at least, I believe sees something she doesn't like.

But I'm struggling with Mith.

So why are you townreading Mith, Ali?

Again, however Mith is top 4 so I'm not voting there today.

Readwise I think Rad's reaction to this is town, if only because it comes across as the townie panic when you think you're about to die and not the scum controlled removal of pressure/redirect/leaning on scumbuddies to make sure somehting doens't happen.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think ceph's hands off approach in a game of loud voices reads as scum, where I think he'd be looking to plant a flag on me one way or another as town, even if he was wrong he'd be looking to influence it.

Gimli's posting has felt off, ilke off off. Even the interaciton I had wrt games we have played together recently Gimli has felt somewhat guarded and on edge and I sort of think that reads poorly.

Mith explained above

Staeg's takes on me are... I mean staeg is right and I don't like killing people who will generally kill me but I just don't have a townread on them and I'm not getting a townie intent like i otherwise might

Maru's low effort posting can be cured by more legitimate pressure that no one seems to want to put there. All the "low info elimination" talk concerns me a lot. They'd give info if they would prodcue reads or content, of which they do neither.

And yet no one seems to poke them about it.

And I think, Ali, if there's 0 scum in the 6s at this point with how people reacted against it... I'd be very very very shocked. I think it's maru over you and I don't want to try reading you today, but it remains my opinion at least one scum exists in the 6s and I have a strong Imaginality town read so you're in here as a default

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Personally I think Mith is being far to hands off in how he reads me. There's not a lot of confidence in there which admittedly years away can provide but there's just something inside me that screams "this is a player who is pushing me as their main choice to die today and is hedging their take on my slot the whole way.

They describe how my "Reaction" is bad but that's the second person in this game to vote me on a reaction and barely explain why it's bad. Ythan, at least, I believe sees something she doesn't like.

But I'm struggling with Mith.

So why are you townreading Mith, Ali?

Again, however Mith is top 4 so I'm not voting there today.

Mith huh...
That's a take I think you would have as any alignment but it is helpful that you have it!

What do you think of a Ceph-Bella-Mith team? I think if mith is a wolf I have him paired with these players.

If I can identify you as town I think mith is one I would be willing to reconsider but I want to call his posting town because he seems solvy? He seems like he is thinking about the game. 537 explains my biggest worry on mith.

Mith's looking solvy, I agree, but most of it is solvy about things that are game neutral. Mith said it himself, he's talking too much about the numbers and my 6s take. His actual words on why i'm scum are... sparse, by comparisson.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Anywya, you have a list of where I'm at mentally with the slots in this game from the top of my head based on how I've been reading and taking in. Nothing more than surface level because I want to go back to playing my game with my girlfriends but

it contains the general sense of my thinking, so chew on that and do as you will

[Lady Lambdadelta]

also just used the bathroom so one last pop in

Rad did ping me in this last interaction with the beetlejuicing and also with the attack on 4 vs 5.

The line I made was determined from post 1. It wasn't some new thing I just made up. He exists below that line, so it's a little confusing to me why he's now and only now challenging it, but I guess that is answered by "self interest".

Again, I do think he looks more like a panicking townie than a controlled scum player, which answers some of the bettlejuicing and the bad attack.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think ceph's hands off approach in a game of loud voices reads as scum, where I think he'd be looking to plant a flag on me one way or another as town, even if he was wrong he'd be looking to influence it.

One of my goals during this day phase is to try to solve with Cephrir in real time. If he's stuck, I want to see if I can help him and see what happens as a result.

I'd love to see where Cephrir lands too.

I get the sense there are a lot of slots who have sunk into the background with me as a possible defacto elimination based on my explosion earlier in the day.

Like I said, I'm LHF, and the slots who are lurking need spotlights shone in their face, I think.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Maru's low effort posting can be cured by more legitimate pressure that no one seems to want to put there.

The very first game I played with them was Warrior Cats and they were largely absent for most of day 1. A lot of people wanted more from them during d1 and d2 in Warrior Cats and it took them awhile before eventually getting more out of them.
Maybe I'm just stupid, but can you explain to me how putting down votes there adds anything to the amount of pressure that is already on the slot. It's already at 4 votes. How do more votes change things?

I don't think more votes is helpful for sorting Marashu. I value time > votes here. They're inactive but they DO want to play mafia and they DO try to play mafia when they're a villager, so like, I want to give them the chance to let them do that?

I mean, the question is where scum Marashu and thus Marashu's team feels under any actual pressure or not, right?

You're itching to leave the wagon, and people are suspecting me more actively while Marashu lurks.

This is a game full of old school players, so let's use an old school adage. LAL. well, EAL now? Eliminate all Lurkers.

put marashu to actual deadly pressure and say "post or die" and if he doesn't post... he can die?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You have to actually be willing to kill someone or they just won't care.