TM 2023 | Open: PYP S_TM | Endgame

[Bellaphant]

I just want to hear from ythan and andante , consider my vote on in spirit. Maru could be scum tho

[Bellaphant]

ok so it's imaginality and andante

and maru?

[Bellaphant]

Thoughts on just limming andante?

[Bellaphant]

It's not happening is it?

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: imag

E-1

[Bellaphant]

Apros of nothing, klick says maru is town

[Bellaphant]

P sure alisae claimed day one?

[Bellaphant]

I'm fine with it.

P-edit same honestly

[Bellaphant]

I've never had a TR on the gimli slot, quite explicitly. For anyone to act like it's new today is just silly.

An I claiming?

[Bellaphant]

I'm VT, I picked the neighbours (yes, I know, the slot maru took.) 100% a playstyle thing, I find this game much easier to figure out with someone to talk to away from a big thread

[Bellaphant]

I think datisi is my strongest tr, but I'm not sure that helps.

[Bellaphant]

@alisae, you honestly scum read me?

@lld, I really hope you are feeling better and are seeing progress.

[Bellaphant]

I was about to gotcha datisi and say I picked it in their game they ran of this too but apparently I didn't. Weird, past Bella

[Bellaphant]

Because?

Also, what's that to do the narrative you've been spinning about me and gimli, which is blatantly nonsense?

[Bellaphant]

Klick really hard tr them. I had a wobble with them but gth I think they are town.

I'm not the loudest voice in the thread, alisae, every time I say something I get very kindly told to fuck off, increasingly since day one.

[Bellaphant]

It's probably a playstyle thing but I've felt like I say something normal and people act like I've got two heads: ceph disagreed with me from basically my first post, noone would ever pick bullet proof, most posts in convo with datisi, mith waggling his 'ive got my eye on you ' finger at me, ythan literally called me bad for....wanting to talk to them? : i'm not in my groove. It's not an issue but I don't think scum reading me for not aggressively pushing something is valid.

[Bellaphant]

I would assume town!datisi neighbours mena every day of the week, honestly?

[Bellaphant]

Reading them in other games together? I can see datisi knowing that talking to mena in private could be really strong.

Ythan is a weird choice, tho

[Bellaphant]

mith waggling his 'ive got my eye on you ' finger at me

?

Somepoint last day phase, before the moth thing. I'm not explaining myself well I think, I'll try again in the morning

[Bellaphant]

takes not claims*

that low in the draft, possibly yes, if they have partners in high drafting positions, more specifically if they are partnered with Ythan who can take cop and be scum cop.

it WOULD mean Mena is town, but i just think those neighbourizing choices are super sus over other more obviously effective choices

who do you think a town!Datisi neighborizes instead?

Like here fron lld (this isn't an attack/comment on you specifically) 'other more obviously effective choices' just isn't how I approach/think stuff at all, and it leads to me feeling a bit disconnected. I kinda wanna make an old school/new school survivor joke but again, tired.

[Bellaphant]

I'm clearly just In a mood. I'm trying to be clear and saying I'm not assigning a value judgement to it.

[Bellaphant]

takes not claims*

that low in the draft, possibly yes, if they have partners in high drafting positions, more specifically if they are partnered with Ythan who can take cop and be scum cop.

it WOULD mean Mena is town, but i just think those neighbourizing choices are super sus over other more obviously effective choices

hi can you pls explain to me what you consider that town-me does there and why these are bad choices

others are right tho, i always hood mena. this is not AI. i would hood him even if we were both scum because i'd expect someone to call me out for *not* hooding mena

I like this

[Bellaphant]

Does Titus have anything for me?

[Bellaphant]

That's what I think, yes, especially by not properly claiming. Come in, muddy the waters and leg it. Alisea positioning around that slot actually makes me question my read on them.

[Bellaphant]

Hi mena I wasn't in the mood last night. Curious to chat.

Alisae, I can't see why you'd town read the slot, or why it flipped your views? For me, the resistance to that slot being wagoned feels massive, a few dead townies had gimli as scummy and like...what about last night felt genuine? It looked like throwing shade around, not claiming properly and then noping out under pressure. The hammer was awful.

[Bellaphant]

To go on what mena said: the scum team as a whole is doing fairly well, considering the state of the day one wagons and the Dr lim..sacrificing the worsr positioned slot in order to get the Dr lim seems just like good play, honestly?

[Bellaphant]

My brain tells me to scum read mena but then they keep looking really town.

[Bellaphant]

I basically just want to repeat what datisi is saying? Ythan's done nothing and got overly arsey with me when I tried to have a sorting conversation.

Re:andante, I really dislike the way you are linking 'a red username ' to them being scum .it feels manipulative. Show me what they said that you think feels genuine from last night? I saw a bunch of scatter gun posting, no firm town reads and obfuscation about the hammer and their role.

[Bellaphant]

something tells me mith is maf and I shouldn't have went "wow lots of words, sounds right" ughhh why did I hammer that

Self conscious about the hammer, this is Nia at best

like, scum or not, that was a freaking doc claim, goes against everything i was thinking

Again. The hyperbole makes it scummier tho

why is mith town

Ironic given that our current solve is exactly Mith/Bella/andy

not gonna lie, I was scum leaning Bella, but wanted to check something, and I agree on mith... obv I'm not the 3rd, but like, why do 2/3 of yours agree with what I was thinking? sus

I think scum reading me is the only eeas given since she replaced in.

if Andy is town who horribly misplayed

WOAH WOAH WOAH!! All yall were deadset on that lim, it wasn't only on me, it was all "this is the lim, just waiting for andy to catch up" even if I didn't hammer that, I am certain someone else would have. to say I misplayed? I didn't even have the time to actively be here till now, (finals went amazing!!!!) yall have been here, I asked for a catch up, I was given one, byt the person I voted out... man I'm an idiot :/ SORRY IMAGIN!! I GOT THIS TODAY THOUGH. A GAME. LEGGO

Again, a genuine thought process? It's over hyped Ans feels like someone yelling 'look over there '

Klick really hard tr them. I had a wobble with them but gth I think they are town.

I'm not the loudest voice in the thread, alisae, every time I say something I get very kindly told to fuck off, increasingly since day one.

So Klick thinks someone is hard town, and barely convinced you to tr someone? Honestly I might SR you more than mith

This is like the fourth post in a row shading me/my claim without really engaging with it? It's also again, their only read.

[Bellaphant]

I don't recognise what you are saying about meta either: I've played once with her when I was scum ans she was in a town hydra with Nancy and she was aggressive in her reads and pushes, so much so that I asked for Nancy to be put back on the phone.

[Bellaphant]

The towniest thing ythan has done is be rolefished by alisae

P-edit but there's no meat to it. It's not the hyperbole that's the issue on itself, it's...where the dish?

[Bellaphant]

I am starting to question your Alignment, yes. I don't get how we're reading so differently?

[Bellaphant]

I don't want you to but I feel like you are doing little things to manipulate the thread, including like occasionally scum reading me and then talking to me like I'm town?

[Bellaphant]

Also, if I'm town, you are town, ythan is town, who's scum? Apart from mith?

Like my pov datisi and mena are town. My Poe is getting rather tiny.

? Clarify both of those last posts? Then go to sleep

[Bellaphant]

I don't want you to but I feel like you are doing little things to manipulate the thread, including like occasionally scum reading me and then talking to me like I'm town?

This is how Klick plays the game

What does this mean

[Bellaphant]

I don't think dats is scum mainly for their approach to other slots, including mine.

@dats tho, why ythan?

[Bellaphant]

Sorry, I thought you said you neighbours them?

[Bellaphant]

Hmm, ok.

How do you read me btw?

[Bellaphant]

Pocketing you would be playing to a level I can only aspire to

[Bellaphant]

Things I believe:
Datisi and mena are town.
Mith having a vig shot tonight is pro town and shouldn't be the lim.
Lld and ythan are not scum together.

[Bellaphant]

Staeg (6): Alisae, Bellaphant, imaginality, Marashu, Rad, Gimli
imaginality (5): mith, Cephrir, Staeg, Datisi, Menalque
Rad: 7: Cephrir, mith, Menalque, Marashu, Datisi, Staeg, Alisae

Wagons at highest I think
Town: ?, ? ?, town Town, ? Unflipped me, Ali, gimli
town: ? Town, town, ? ? Unflipped mith, dats, mena
Town: town, ?, ? ? town Town, ? Mith, mena, days, alisae

[Bellaphant]

imaginality (6): mith, Menalque, Datisi, Aliase, Bellaphant, Andante

...fucking everyone.

[Bellaphant]

I don't know what it means that lld and ythan haven't been on a lim yet.

[Bellaphant]

Marashu (4): Lady Lambdadelta, Staeg, Menalque, Cephrir
? Town ? Town

Marashu (4): Staeg, Menalque, Cephrir, Rad
Town , ? Town, town.

[Bellaphant]

Counter to that maru wagon was lld.

Ythan, it'll be after bedtime probably, I can think about numbers while managing the kids, sentences take effort

[Bellaphant]

Has mena ever been disengaged enough to not know what's going on? They engaged a fair bit with the wagons day one afair

[Bellaphant]

Also, hi lld, talk to me not about me. You realise that if it's not you, from my pov it basically has to be alisae, who you wanted to vig n1? It would be great if you could try to engage with me.

P-edit mid? I noticed that a lot more from ythan.

[Bellaphant]

This angling they're doing on the remaining cast has no basis of thought behind it, she's saying things to say things and setting up to try and find an elimination she can accomplish today. She was angling on Andante but I just said I'll never do that so she's angling onto one of us and then just onto me if she can get you on board so she can box me out with Andante and not have to listen to my arguments from a town perspective.

Bella's reads make more sense as scum seeking a final elimination than as town trying to solve the game at this point

There is a ton of projection here. You saying you'll never do andante hasn't put me off, weirdly.

[Bellaphant]

@ythan, if we like wrong today, and mith is town, we get an extra shot at keeping the game where we were, in Melo.
If he's scum, we've lost anyway, basically. So it's overall pro town to keep the slot. It's just mech.

[Bellaphant]

Specifically, lld, I feel like the scum team are doing exactly what you are saying: looking for an easy lim. So...why wouldn't it worry you (or anyone) that suddenly the thread consensus is Bella's weirdly scummy? Like that didn't seem to be the vibe of the thread day one or two, but suddenly we have you, alisae, menna, andante slot, datisi, I think still ythan?

P-edit aren't we in Melo? Can I not count? If we lim him and he's town, sorry. I should've waited for bedtime.
Pp-edit yes.

If he's scum and we don't lim him he can kill twice? But I don't think we are in that world?

[Bellaphant]

Or are we assuming if he's scum he took another ability?

[Bellaphant]

The positives seems better than the negative.

Also,JJ hiiii.

[Bellaphant]

I should've clarified: I don't see tons of appetite for you to be the lim today, regardless of your alignment. It feels like scum are angling for a gimli slot/Bella show down. If you are scum in that sitch and we mislim, we lose.

If you are scum and we lim you, cool! But that doesn't seem to be where the day is heading.

I'm generally shit at mech, have said it many times. Chatted this through with klick though and my argue thoughts seemed to be fine?

[Bellaphant]

I realised last night that I thought maru had picked watcher not voyuer (or the othe away round) and datisi was fake claiming for a hot second. And I picked that option! So generally, yeah, shit at mech.

[Bellaphant]

Omg really

[Bellaphant]

It's not me; I think I've been right all along.

[Bellaphant]

Also, lld didn't you say that bp was a scum claimMl?

[Bellaphant]

Like...

I've already given my input, so it can't be said I'm hiding anything or dragging my feet.

if you don't give me any incentive over how this is going to help us catch scum vs. possibly is a method to help you direct town to its doom...

then I'd be liable to just tell people not to react and we can sit in impasse until you claim.

tell me why this is helpful. it seems the opposite of helpful.

What you're essentially designing is "yes I do infact have a guilty" which, as long as Mith is town, we're MOSTLY guaranteed not to lose today, but we'd want the 50/50 correct.

The worry is that if you're the bad side of the 50/50, right?

then you're CONFIRMED bulletproof. you will have taken BP and Mith can't shoot you. So in some world, if we have a guilty and we trust mith we should lim you and shoot your guilty.

So again, what does this gain us?

Also just had this ^ convo with klick

[Bellaphant]

Sorry, I was a page beind. But yes, that's my assumption

[Bellaphant]

It's silly because I'm guessing who you checked. It's not an answer.
You either have a guilty on andante or lld. Gth it's andante. Id love to have a clear on me but I suspect I'm the nothing.

[Bellaphant]

If I'm the clear it looks worse for alisae.

[Bellaphant]

Izzys awake, I'm probably done for the night.

[Bellaphant]

This does feel fishy tho, like I feel like this process just gives scum more leeway. A guilty is a guilty

[Bellaphant]

Hey, I was right.

[Bellaphant]

? I thought you said Titus thought I was town for my answers?

@alisae, are there any worlds (for me) where it isn't one of you or LLd? (If yhtan is lying, obvs)

[Bellaphant]

That was what I was asking yeah, alisae, get some rest.

@mith, get some too!

The jjh

town/mith town shot advice looks right there

[Bellaphant]

@ mena, I really want to chat to you, be around after bedtime

[Bellaphant]

Happy cake day!

Everyone with hives should feel better.

[Bellaphant]

@alisae, can you talk a sec about andante/mith being partners?

[Bellaphant]

@datisi, why are high-key fucked?

[Bellaphant]

Hi mena I wasn't in the mood last night. Curious to chat.

Alisae, I can't see why you'd town read the slot, or why it flipped your views? For me, the resistance to that slot being wagoned feels massive, a few dead townies had gimli as scummy and like...what about last night felt genuine? It looked like throwing shade around, not claiming properly and then noping out under pressure. The hammer was awful.

sup bella

can you explain to me how your perspective of the game has shifted over the days since day 1 until now?

.
The thing is, it hasn't much? My biggest shift is around alisae: day one I hard tr them and now I think they are my biggest question mark. My first interaction with gimli I tell him he's fake, I wish I'd leaned into that read harder. I just went back to team reads on page 15 and

TOWN
Ythan -
Alisae
imaginality tick
Rad tick

LEAN TOWN
Mena I still feel like this is mostly likely town out of my new poe

NULL
Cephrir town
Datisi
Gimli this is scum
Marashu town
mith ?
Staeg town

SCUM
LLD


From my pov, ythan is only scum if lld is, but is probably just town.
I think you are only ever scum with datisi and I don't think you are.
So, I believe the scum team to be jjh/and then one of my original nulls, plus one of lld/alisae. Alisae in particular because their position around andante is so so strange - they are ignoring their play, their meta and a cop guilty to try to force through an elom on mith. (Is this bussing moth whole trying to salvage town cred? Who knows!)

It also suggests ythan/alisae aren't alinged, because again, why not fake a guilty on mith?

P-edit I think mena can only be scum if partnered with datsisi, do you disagree?

[Bellaphant]

Kuribo seems to be reading some of the game, especially around andante, really similarly to klick.

[Bellaphant]

Ok, so mena almost has to be town?

[Bellaphant]

I know? It's either you both scum or she's scum /and/you are town.
Assume i'm town, whats your solve?

[Bellaphant]

Why does ythan guilty andante, mena?

[Bellaphant]

Yeah, weird
Also, didn't mean say I was scum with imag?

Ugh, maybe I'm wrong.

[Bellaphant]

@mena, how confdent are you that dats is town?

[Bellaphant]

Also I forgot scum could also neighbor, ignore everything I said about mena and datisi having to both be clear or scum together

[Bellaphant]

I'd like mena to be town but their position today around me specifically sucks?

[Bellaphant]

Klick would love you to assess 'everyones partner potential with mith': not teams, just 1 by 1?

[Bellaphant]

@alisae, obvs

[Bellaphant]

I think he feels worse about mith than I do? I'm at my mum's til tomorrow night so we'll chat more then

[Bellaphant]

??

[Bellaphant]

Is the sexy m and m a good thing?

[Bellaphant]

TBf my read in you is junk rn, I've gone back and forth like hourly, but I'll ask klick.

[Bellaphant]

Can u talk to me about voting rad?

[Bellaphant]

Your thoughts process up to the vote

[Bellaphant]

Alisae, no shade, but do you really think all three scum would be on that day one wagon?

[Bellaphant]

I have tons of toddler vomit on me, I'll be around tomorrow

[Bellaphant]

LLD you are really good at wolf!
A lot of where I feel like I draw my scumhunting from comes from how I understand wolves play and how they would want to play that alignment. I would like to think this is a skill I've honed really well, but recently (like in Cakez game) I've been rusty. But Cakez game taught me that I need to play these gamestates better and this is what better looks like.

Honestly... I just don't know.

I'm keeping my mind open but you're asking me to fold pocket aces. Andante quick hammered, then replaced out instead of claiming. JJH can't produce why he picked BP from team chat things. Ythan's play as cop makes sense, and scum not shooting her to force this possible play where we kill Ythan instead is also a play I might make as scum. It is a bit of an all in push but it makes sense.

I'm listenting to you. I'm hearing you.

Just... don't hold it against me if I say "we're doing JJH today come along Ali" cause... it's just hard to get off this hand when it feels like I win more than I lose by killing JJH here

Caught up to here and mood

[Bellaphant]

@datisi, I don't think I'm the lim here for lots of reasons?
@alisae, klick says that he can see Titus thinking that about flailing, but we already know Titus has some interesting takes.
@mena, did my response to your day one question prompt anything? Klick would still like to know how sure you are on days

[Bellaphant]

here's a question for you

if it's Ythan/Datisi/Mith

show me the interactions between those slots that indicate that, cause Ythan/Mith I'm just not seeing it

but I see a TON of Datisi soft defending Gimli, go look at Datisi's iso for Gimli day 1

Klick said something similar.

i think if jjh flips wolf and mith wants to shoot a wolf, they should probably shoot Datisi.

I concur.

Yes

@lld, I just dont seem to be around when anyone else is around!

[Bellaphant]

The other issue is, if people are impressionable, like me, the only take away they are gonna have is that the 'reasonable' responses (me, imag, alissy, gimli) are town, and those aren't even particularly good takes!

hi bella! I like this post cause it pushes what I'm sure you think is a protown agenda, while exposing reads you're probably making in the spot understanding the reasoning for it is weak and the threadstate isn't conducive to scumhunting.

Hi! Did AI write this post? It feels very expository but also like it's trying hard to be friendly! While being slightly passive aggressive

Is that worse? Should I stop? Sorry, I'm doing it in love.

no it’s uh…
I mean I don’t mind I think it’s cute
I feel like I’m being teased and I’m ya uh

The emojis look a bit sad. I'm also poking fun at my bad spelling/typing. I may or may not continue

P-edit not just to me, lld. It's not a hot take that shitting up the thread makes the thread a place where people don't want to be. I don't care as much about tone, I care about the brick wall element.

Also, you kinda answered your own question? It's really clear that those reads are based on 'people being bice' rather than 'people being town'.

I have more of a TR on imaginality than alisae, If that helps.

@mith, sorry to case myself but this interaction never happens as partners

[Bellaphant]

From my pov: either ythan Is lying (which raises the question of why guilty andante of all people - the slot would probably be a status quo lim anyway, so why not guilty....me, for example) and the team is like ythan/lld/idek let's say mith

Or, ythan is telling the truth. It's probably jjh/dats +one other, and that other has to be not lld and klick says he 100% believes in mena down here.

[Bellaphant]

If andante is guilty, then I am compelled to look at alisae: the thing is, their response to the slot makes very little since as any combination of alignments: t/t, t/s,s/t or s/s - to hard defend a slot that has had three chances to be town read by my and failed, the hammer, etc.

Which leads to me to judge Judy: if it doesn't make sense, it isn't true.

P-edit hii, I won't be for long (feeding iz) klick says can you ask shirou thier perspective on the game?

[Bellaphant]

Radical and klick both agree that 9/10 jjh is just the lim here. If ythan is scum, I think she fakes a guilty on someone else (mith?? If mith is town). If mith is her scum buddy and they are both scum we're fucked anyway.

Rr says If town, probably datiai, If scum, alisea. I think klick had a similar thought.

[Bellaphant]

Can you walk me through the guilty bit? I'm missing something?

[Bellaphant]

How does Ythan plausibly fake a guilty on mith after doing everything short of declaring a guilty on my slot for the previous part of the day

I think you're throwing in the towel a bit early on a Ythan/mith scumteam here. You're saying it's doomed but this mess can still be untangled without just following the prescribed path of the previous two days

The start here

[Bellaphant]

I guess if it's Ali/Bella/Mena/JJH/LLD

and Datisi is the scum with Mith and Ythan

we maybe could win, because scum have to shoot JJH once we kill Ythan and then vig IDK, me? I guess? or just don't vig?

and then Dats is scum and pushing me instead of town and pushing me and so it's not STRICTLY over but it feels pretty fucking over

so what can I even do?

I'm here but I kinda feel like you feel: either it's ythan and like.. you and mith?? Or it's just what feels 'correct' right this second, which is that you, mith and mena are probably town. I think datisi is just scum here either way.

I get you think I'm pop in pop out: maybe ask me some questions? I feel it should be really obvious that In town, Ans if you are town (which I think) I think we've had much more similar takes this game than maybe it's appeared. I just don't have a ton of different thoughts than I've expresses without a prompt right now.

[Bellaphant]

@lld, I wasn't exactly asking for special treatment.
I'm really torn here between arguments that look awful and this quite passive control.

@jjh the rad lin felt the opposite of default, I think my next step is to go back and look at the wagon. Afair, the only person who looked 'town' from it was mena

[Bellaphant]

Just so I understand, neighbouring ythan was a way to check if they was aesthetic?

[Bellaphant]

[Bellaphant]

You have mena as lock town the way he has you?

[Bellaphant]

There's not another way, from your pov, that the neighbours could have failed that isn't ythan aesthetic cop?

[Bellaphant]

Mith asked me ages ago about being shit at mech. Actually, @mith, you didn't really follow up on this?

[Bellaphant]

@mod, vla, Izzy's been sent to hospital

[Bellaphant]

Thanks all, it's probably just a weird UTI? At home, waiting on the results of a urine sample.

I'll put a vote down in the morning: two outstanding questions for me though - why wouldn't scum be more eager to vote jjh here, if jjh scum, for town cred?

Secondly, does the fact that jjh is being pushed so hard by lld feel like a red flag? It's easy to see it as a push from someone who knows it's a game winning move. Tin hat maybe.

[Bellaphant]

Is there any merit to voting datisi

[Bellaphant]

Ok but I'm like 50/50 on mith?

@jjh, my read on datisi has been everywhere - they hard defended lld day one but approached other slots differently, start of day two I still scum read them, towards the end I thought they were making decent points and today they've basically been unreadable. I think teams wise it works more of the time than doesn't tho?

[Bellaphant]

Sorry, how would you be confirmed in that sitch?

[Bellaphant]

I'm around, I'll vote before sleeping don't worry

[Bellaphant]

Words from titus. She feels we can solve if town mith shoots scum datisi. Ali is claiming scum pursuing mith going for either a scum win or just to stall. Theory is jjh ali datisi. Bella is gonna be vla through deadline lol. More eventually after I get her to clarify stuff so I can paraphrase it.

Klick says this, basically

[Bellaphant]

I've got a bit of time now?

[Bellaphant]

I hope your week has been better than mine!

[Bellaphant]

Oh, klick says if jjh red, shoot Ali. If jjh is town, mith town, ita probably not Ali or mena to shoot.

[Bellaphant]

Is it l-1 now?

[Bellaphant]

We don't know? Waiting on results from a urine sample but I can see us being back in the hospital over the weekend. It's scary when you don't know how worries to be: two drs sent us to the hospital as they were really worried and the hospital was like *shrug*

Where's your head at re:the game?

[Bellaphant]

If mith is town, there isn't a viable team outside lld/datisi/ythan. Ali doesn't really work and our town read on you hasn't changed since day one. If mith is scum we're fucked anyway

[Bellaphant]

Not at all, but let's keep chatting. I think it's really clear here that I'm town, mainly because I feel like I'm one of the few people posting without an agenda.

If you feel like it's jjh+Ali, then it's surprising to us that you'd just count datisi as town, just from this day phase: they seem like they'd like an elim from jjh. If I was scum, It would be really easy for me in particular to push 'im not working with lld' and try and reframe the team as ythan/lld..it's wifom but there we are

It feels like the scum team want the day to end today and not limming jjh is the easiest way to do that?

[Bellaphant]

Datisi is never scum with LLD after this day phase

Hard disagree with this in general

[Bellaphant]

Away from, sorry

[Bellaphant]

Okay, couple of points bc I’m a tiny bit confused:

When you say “they seem like they’d really like an elim from jjh” what do you mean? You mean an elim that’s not jjh?

Also I’m not seeing entirely how you pushing that angle would be easy for you as scum?

Also I’m assuming typo in last para and you meant to say scumteam seem like they want game to end not dsy to end? In which case — ye-es buuuuuut I think often scum won’t really go all in on winning early (happens but i think when the gamestate is more confused than this?) so I’m wondering if they have something else in mind but I’m not sure what

Yes, to both of the assumptions. I guess I'm talking about a certain scum team in the second point, but I think my point still stands

[Bellaphant]

Okay, couple of points bc I’m a tiny bit confused:

When you say “they seem like they’d really like an elim from jjh” what do you mean? You mean an elim that’s not jjh?

Also I’m not seeing entirely how you pushing that angle would be easy for you as scum?

Also I’m assuming typo in last para and you meant to say scumteam seem like they want game to end not dsy to end? In which case — ye-es buuuuuut I think often scum won’t really go all in on winning early (happens but i think when the gamestate is more confused than this?) so I’m wondering if they have something else in mind but I’m not sure what

Yes, to both of the assumptions. I guess I'm talking about a certain scum team in the second point, but I think my point still stands

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: jjh e-1, bedtime

[Bellaphant]

Ace. It feels pretty easy from here, wifom excluded? (What if it's mith all along?!?!).

I mainly want to hear from mena.

[Bellaphant]

Also, uh, this is a bit of a late thing but

Team Mafia 2023, PYP, 3 6s..... One scum in the Triple.

I feel a bit like this about our teams solve of its gimli and one of you/alisea from the start of day two. We obfuscated our read a little bit, we felt it wa really important that alisae thought we were more pockets than we were.

I think things to consider from day one are now:
The rad lim
Datisi's defense of lld to me
Something else I will remember when it's not 5am

Also worth mentioning is that I don't know why mena approaches me the way he did yesterday as scum.

[Bellaphant]

If it isn't, we get another go, right? Like I don't like that elo make up but we get one?

[Bellaphant]

Vote Count 1.17

Staeg (6): Alisae, Bellaphant, imaginality, Marashu, Rad, Gimli
imaginality (3): Staeg, Datisi, Menalque
Rad (2): Cephrir, mith
Lady Lambdadelta (1): Ythan

Not Voting (1): Lady Lambdadelta

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate.

Deadline is April 27 at 10:00 PM PST, in (expired on 2023-04-28 01:00:00).

[quote=implosion post_id=13757583

Vote Count 1.19 (FINAL)

Rad (7): Cephrir, mith, Menalque, Marashu, Datisi, Staeg, Alisae
Staeg (2): imaginality, Gimli
Lady Lambdadelta (1): Ythan
mith (1): Rad

Not Voting (2): Bellaphant, Lady Lambdadelta

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate.

Deadline is April 27 at 10:00 PM PST, in (expired on 2023-04-28 01:00:00).

[/quote]

[Bellaphant]

God, the imaginality limwas basically half scum. Interestingly, only one scum on them day one.

[Bellaphant]

? I was the one repeatedly saying I wanted to flash wagon gimli end of day one.

[Bellaphant]

The other issue is, if people are impressionable, like me, the only take away they are gonna have is that the 'reasonable' responses (me, imag, alissy, gimli) are town, and those aren't even particularly good takes!

hi bella! I like this post cause it pushes what I'm sure you think is a protown agenda, while exposing reads you're probably making in the spot understanding the reasoning for it is weak and the threadstate isn't conducive to scumhunting.

Hi! Did AI write this post? It feels very expository but also like it's trying hard to be friendly! While being slightly passive aggressive

Is that worse? Should I stop? Sorry, I'm doing it in love.

no it’s uh…
I mean I don’t mind I think it’s cute
I feel like I’m being teased and I’m ya uh

The emojis look a bit sad. I'm also poking fun at my bad spelling/typing. I may or may not continue

P-edit not just to me, lld. It's not a hot take that shitting up the thread makes the thread a place where people don't want to be. I don't care as much about tone, I care about the brick wall element.

Also, you kinda answered your own question? It's really clear that those reads are based on 'people being bice' rather than 'people being town'.

I have more of a TR on imaginality than alisae, If that helps.

Two people have asked me about following up on ceph but I've kinda given all that I've got? I think that's there's probably a scum in them/gimli, but again, vibes.

Steag, one of gimli/ceph and then one of my townreads is wrong. Maybe mena/imag? Tin-foil it could be one of you/rad but I think you are town and rad did a (slightly weak) version of the tell in the chat with you

I'm more sure datisi is town than lld: her town case on marushu is great, bit scum could do that, but right now I got shown a lot more of the process, so don't want to do that.

The issue is I have too many trs

I mean, I think there's a mid level appetite from a few people for a gimli speed wagon?

More interested in a gimli wagon than a Maru wagon...

Basically you and alisae are the two people I top TR, klick town reads more people but anything in the maybe section and under I could vote. Or even datisi

I'd love to agree with gimli that I was tr-ing the main wagons, but there were so few even proposed counters: I proposed gimli!

I dunno, the datisi thing is interesting.

Klick still thinks ythan is town

Recipes!

[Bellaphant]

I vageuly remember talking to alisea about it? Someone was strongly anti running up another okay last minute but I think it was lld? I will go back after nap

[Bellaphant]

In what world is my first interaction with my scum partner the one I quoted there?


Like, I fucking had him in one post. I said to you yesterday that my reads hae circled back to day one and day one it was gimli and datisi for a long time.

[Bellaphant]

The thing is, I literally can't let this day end with the chance of you and datisi in lylo. I believe you to be town.

[Bellaphant]

Yeah, I know I need to chat a about my read progression on you, I will tonight but it isn't that deep. I wish I just had more confidence in myself in general.

[Bellaphant]

I'll vote for Staeg or Gimli here in a bit after I've had more time to think about it

why suddenly thinking about a vote on gimli?

I'll vote for Staeg or Gimli here in a bit after I've had more time to think about it

voting gimli doesn’t do anything

[Bellaphant]

Mena, What's so frustrating for me is that I feel like you came into today saying 'this interaction with gimli looks bad for bella' and I proved to you a)it was the opposite and b) datisi and Ali have the interaction you think looks bad with the gimli speed wagon like ten posts apart, And your take away is still 'its more likely to be bella?'

Like, I was also partnered with imaginality, wasn't i? I don't know what's stopping you re-assessing.

Go back to those day one quotes.

[Bellaphant]

Target mith and we gain advantage either way

This is true

[Bellaphant]

@lld, is it mechanically better to just lim me? Because I'm not getting out of lylo alive with dats and mena.

[Bellaphant]

@mith, have you got any questions for me?

[Bellaphant]

It's tone. They are, with love, way more condescending as town. They did it to alisae. They did it to me in lost, and in our newbie. The lost one was hilarious, it was basically 'bella can't be scum because obviously this is a suboptimal scum approach, scum should be doing x y z!!!' I was scum!

The steag unvote I think has to be looked at in the context of the wider wagons: day one town spent mostly flailing around, I think there were like three votes in datisi at some point and that's the closest we got to wagoning scum (in my pov). None of the wagons felt right - because we kept wagoning town, mostly as town! I wish I'd stick to my guns a bit more day two around imaginality. Alisea voting rad was the biggest scum tell for me.

2709 was us working on the info we had. I think once it was obvious it was a silly idea, it got dropped. I don't think I make a post that wooly as scum, I was really clearly looking for feedback. I missed the change in their approach to lld: I think day two goes really different for me if I had lld as clear there and I think we tip our hand re:the alisae read a lot lot earlier. Lld saying they wanted to vig him had me so wanting to just quote 'mood'.

I know it's self meta, but I fucking hate interacting with my scum partners in thread and I never know what to do with them. Id be the scum player of my dreams if I'd managed to interact with ally the way I did day one

[Bellaphant]

Also, self meta but this is lost viewtopic.php?t=89664

I was really proud of this game, until I got guiltied! But my partners were off the hook, tally, marhblade/corwin and Malcolm. Watch me basically ignore them all and force myself to talk to Malcolm occasionally.

[Bellaphant]

Specifically, lld, I feel like the scum team are doing exactly what you are saying: looking for an easy lim. So...why wouldn't it worry you (or anyone) that suddenly the thread consensus is Bella's weirdly scummy? Like that didn't seem to be the vibe of the thread day one or two, but suddenly we have you, alisae, menna, andante slot, datisi, I think still ythan?

P-edit aren't we in Melo? Can I not count? If we lim him and he's town, sorry. I should've waited for bedtime.
Pp-edit yes.

If he's scum and we don't lim him he can kill twice? But I don't think we are in that world?

Also, the position of andante and alisae being my scum partners and starting day three with a scum read on me would be Really, really weird. Without the guilty I think I get pushed way harder yesterday and end up being the lim. Alisae came out of the gate sr-ing me for....not pushing gimli hard enough. (where have I heard that before)

[Bellaphant]

It was their weird post about hyper posting that raised a red flag, Ans then I said it Ans they took me out of their town core, but then I made it pretty clear after I didn't want to make that vote (and didn't).

[Bellaphant]

@lld, anything you want from me?

[Bellaphant]

I think any red flags with nena are all around the lims, rather than the 'play' if that makes sense? They were the first to really push rad (or the first one to really say anything that connected with me), admits to 'goading' me into the imaginality lim, and seems really reluctant to reconsider around me based on a) me bit being partners with imaginality b) their recall of the whole gimli thing being wrong and c) the fact that before the cop reveal I had like six people vaguely scum reading me day three, when day one and two I was firmly town for a bunch of people/dead townies.

It's just a surprising amount of wrong/bad takes when it matters? I know I got it wrong with yhtan but I think it's obvious to see me reconsider.

[Bellaphant]

Mith isn't 100% clear though. A lylo with mith and mena would be really tough for me.

[Bellaphant]

In terms of past stuff i think I just keep going back to day one: there's no way gimli and ally are my partner. I also voted dats!

[Bellaphant]

Like I said, shit at mech but the team agreed with me: if mith had shot town last night and was scum he wouldn't have won, because it would be three two today? Scum!mith has to shoot scum!ally to have a chance of getting out of today?

Is that not right? I don't think it's true but I thought it was mechanically possible?

[Bellaphant]

It's just a personal thing? It's not mechanically impossible and I'm left with basically my two atorngest tr-s: klicks been hard tr-ing the slot since day one, since mith's readlist I think?

I am starting to recobsidwr a bit on mena but either I was basically right day one, which the evidence has been for, or wrong.

I didn't think saying mith wasn't literally conf!town was controversial. I kinda meant it as a compliment

[Bellaphant]

i think comparing bella and mena's play around mith is like - scum!mena would've had to accept his fate of 1v1ing tomorrow. bella is trying to test the waters for seeing whether people really think mith is 100% clear. to me, the reason she's saying it today is really obvious - she *can't* say it tomorrow because she's likely to get instavoted tomorrow, and then mith doesn't hammer, and then he really is confirmed town

But I've also said I'll happily die today to make tomorrow easier. Like, I don't think anyone is buying that i'm this scum!mastermind.

[Bellaphant]

If mith being scum is ludicrous and lld as confirmed town, and should die tonight, then killing me today should be auto win? The neighbours will /have/ to decide between each other, so me saying what I've said has kind of helped because mena (and to a lesser extent dats) has kind of shown their hand around their mith position.

[Bellaphant]

Sorry, I'm really waiting for mena and datisi: mena about day one and two and dats about the neighborhood

[Bellaphant]

My read change was temporsry at the start of day... two? When I thought lld was scum and you were town. I didn't think it was t v t and I was still sr-ing lld and I thought you were making sense. I'd already said I wished I saw the ydrass change with lld, it would've made day two a lot different. With the new info, my read went back to where it was. Sorry, I thought what I said about ydrass was clearer.

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: datisi

Sure!

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: datisi

Sure!

[Bellaphant]

@rad, you were great x