Mini Theme 2330 - A Questionable Almost-Normal Game - Postgame

[ketchup777]

isn't 3 masons 7 VT vs goons supposed to be balanced? yet the above setup might easily get to a point where only 1 person is confirmable. plus masons have private topic and stuff

Friends and Enemies

yeah cool so this suggests that we have at least one other cop with modifiers (let's not go too deeply into this incase of info leaks tho) and PC was coming at it from a weird angle

ranger already said it was them.

and do you believe her?

no cc so sure.

Light also claimed not standard cop in 1379. And you certainly didn't seem to believe Ranger in 1228?

I didn't see light's post I unvoted ranger and I would vote light over ranger any day of the week in this game. more importantly whom would you vote.

you're certainly portraying conflicting views about how many modified cops the town have but okay.

I could feasibly vote anyone except Jackson I think. For example:

VOTE: Hu Tao

[ketchup777]

But where is Drew

VOTE: Doctor Drew

[ketchup777]

isn't 3 masons 7 VT vs goons supposed to be balanced? yet the above setup might easily get to a point where only 1 person is confirmable. plus masons have private topic and stuff

Friends and Enemies

yeah cool so this suggests that we have at least one other cop with modifiers (let's not go too deeply into this incase of info leaks tho) and PC was coming at it from a weird angle

ranger already said it was them.

and do you believe her?

no cc so sure.

Light also claimed not standard cop in 1379. And you certainly didn't seem to believe Ranger in 1228?

I didn't see light's post I unvoted ranger and I would vote light over ranger any day of the week in this game. more importantly whom would you vote.

you're certainly portraying conflicting views about how many modified cops the town have but okay.

I could feasibly vote anyone except Jackson I think. For example:

VOTE: Hu Tao

oh and I won't vote Enchant unless something crazy happens lol

[ketchup777]

isn't 3 masons 7 VT vs goons supposed to be balanced? yet the above setup might easily get to a point where only 1 person is confirmable. plus masons have private topic and stuff

Friends and Enemies

yeah cool so this suggests that we have at least one other cop with modifiers (let's not go too deeply into this incase of info leaks tho) and PC was coming at it from a weird angle

ranger already said it was them.

and do you believe her?

no cc so sure.

Light also claimed not standard cop in 1379. And you certainly didn't seem to believe Ranger in 1228?

I didn't see light's post I unvoted ranger and I would vote light over ranger any day of the week in this game. more importantly whom would you vote.

you're certainly portraying conflicting views about how many modified cops the town have but okay.

I could feasibly vote anyone except Jackson I think. For example:

VOTE: Hu Tao

Well since you and python are apparently the setup kings your vote doesn't follow. tell me are there 3 modded cops with one pseudo ic or 2 with one pseudo ic?

if three then the claims don't conflict and I'll unvote if two then one of them is lying and that should be resolved.

I don't know to be honest. I'd imagine two but I don't really want to risk shooting at our last useful PR

[ketchup777]

You made this huge showing about the setup and now you just drop it...what?

I've voted like 6 different people (and some of them multiple times) today I'm hardly locked in

[ketchup777]

yeah cool so this suggests that we have at least one other cop with modifiers (let's not go too deeply into this incase of info leaks tho) and PC was coming at it from a weird angle

ranger already said it was them.

and do you believe her?

no cc so sure.

Light also claimed not standard cop in 1379. And you certainly didn't seem to believe Ranger in 1228?

I didn't see light's post I unvoted ranger and I would vote light over ranger any day of the week in this game. more importantly whom would you vote.

you're certainly portraying conflicting views about how many modified cops the town have but okay.

I could feasibly vote anyone except Jackson I think. For example:

VOTE: Hu Tao

Well since you and python are apparently the setup kings your vote doesn't follow. tell me are there 3 modded cops with one pseudo ic or 2 with one pseudo ic?

if three then the claims don't conflict and I'll unvote if two then one of them is lying and that should be resolved.

I don't know to be honest. I'd imagine two but I don't really want to risk shooting at our last useful PR

this is a joke right?

if you're going for me using 'shooting at', sure I can see that seems sus, but I assure you I'm not maf

[ketchup777]

You made this huge showing about the setup and now you just drop it...what?

I've voted like 6 different people (and some of them multiple times) today I'm hardly locked in

VOTE: ketchup I'm locked in.

ooga booga

[ketchup777]

Also if anyone actually thinks Ranger isn't fakeclaiming like always we've got a bridge to sell you

what?

[ketchup777]

Also if anyone actually thinks Ranger isn't fakeclaiming like always we've got a bridge to sell you

what?

Ranger fakeclaims like every game regardless of alignment

oh cool good to know

I still don't understand the bridge bit but whatevs

[ketchup777]

aaaaaaaaaaaaah I dont knowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww who it isssssssssss

[ketchup777]

Also if anyone actually thinks Ranger isn't fakeclaiming like always we've got a bridge to sell you

what?

Ranger fakeclaims like every game regardless of alignment

oh cool good to know

I still don't understand the bridge bit but whatevs

I have a bridge to sell you

(idiomatic, US) An indirect way of expressing that the addressee is gullible.

oh, fun! hadn't heard that one before

[ketchup777]

and python doesn't bother to engage with me and is only to happy to see us go back and forth. none of this gives you pause about anything ketchup?

What do you want us to comment on, we've already elaborated on why we think your anti-cop equity is scummy

I didn't even see it lol. Why did you unvote when jackson told you I was town and revote now? it seems you only supposedly follow your "town picks that have higher accuracy than you" when you want.

JVs townread on you was based on you being the distraction to the light wagon, since they warmed up on light it doesn't apply anymore

It was more than that

I'm laughing on the outside and crying on the inside.

me when I got back my further maths mock

[ketchup777]

PC if you were to describe yourself this game as an animal which would you choose?

[ketchup777]

@Doctor Drew, can you explain why you investigated Python?

Hey Drew, please answer this

[ketchup777]

But where is Drew

VOTE: Doctor Drew

Some people do work ya know

And are you just pushing people you perceive as not active right now?

I still think scum!Drew goes for the Lap fade a high proportion of the time tbh.

[ketchup777]

PC if you were to describe yourself this game as an animal which would you choose?

a shrike

'a songbird with a strong sharply hooked bill, often impaling its prey of small birds, lizards, and insects on thorns.'

seeeeeems menacing

VOTE: Political Clout

also i think honest town would just give a simple answer rather than something clever tbh. what first came into my mind was giraffe but i have no idea why

[ketchup777]

But where is Drew

VOTE: Doctor Drew

Some people do work ya know

And are you just pushing people you perceive as not active right now?

I still think scum!Drew goes for the Lap fade a high proportion of the time tbh.

And what does townDrew do?

I think town!Drew should consider the claim for longer and how there might be some shenanigans going on rather than immediately assuming it's bogus. Whether town!Drew actually does that is outside of my knowledge

[ketchup777]

and python doesn't bother to engage with me and is only to happy to see us go back and forth. none of this gives you pause about anything ketchup?

What do you want us to comment on, we've already elaborated on why we think your anti-cop equity is scummy

I didn't even see it lol. Why did you unvote when jackson told you I was town and revote now? it seems you only supposedly follow your "town picks that have higher accuracy than you" when you want.

JVs townread on you was based on you being the distraction to the light wagon, since they warmed up on light it doesn't apply anymore

It was more than that

Didn't see, what's the extra

hitting us with the all time classics. let me question my 100% town read now and pivot.

you 100% townread Python?

[ketchup777]

We never voted titus and I don't remember us defending you d2 this game

Strange, I could've sworn I saw you on the Titus wagon voting there at some point; it's not showing. Similarly, I could've sworn there was posts where you indicated you saw my viewpoint and where I was coming from, along with commenting on my claim. I found neither when looking, yet remember both from you.

did you try looking in the mason PT?

[ketchup777]

Ranger could have figured it out D2. She was late to the party and claimed to not be a normal cop, which is odd considering she only had one vote on her at this point.

In my defense, I felt I had to.

As much as I love fakeclaiming, I need inspiration to fakeclaim, as well as time to craft it.

If I had more time to think it through, I could've figured out something to justify, yet in the moment, I couldn't think of anything. What was I supposed to do? Claim I'm a normal Cop who thought Koba was lying about being a Miller? Claim I'm a normal Cop who forgot Koba claimed Miller and investigated them not remembering it? Lie about my target which could have disastrous consequences?

Despite my skills at fakeclaiming, sometimes I can't do anything except tell the truth. I'm not a vanilla Town Cop. I'm something which thought a useful result would come from copping Koba. That's as much as I will say.

I think you should have just claimed an inno on Enchant but what do I know

[ketchup777]

Ooh I just had another thought; what if scum were informed to some degree? So they didn’t get caught out in a massclaim? Seems plausible. Like they are informed that the majority of town players are cops.

My scumread on Titus is based around this, and her having shown she knew it in advance.

oops I didn’t realise you were implying informed in that way

[ketchup777]

aaaaaaaaaaaaah I dont knowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww who it isssssssssss

Try Titus.

Maybe a few irl days down the line, I don’t want this day to end too soon tho

[ketchup777]

aaaaaaaaaaaaah I dont knowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww who it isssssssssss

Try Titus.

Maybe a few irl days down the line, I don’t want this day to end too soon tho

What's your read on Titus? I tried looking but I'm on mobile and you have 400 posts somehow

somewhat scumlean but not fully sure

[ketchup777]

with another night of sleep in I think PC looks a lot scummier than Python. The juxtaposition over Ranger‘s non-standard claim being completely outlandish to PC and him believing it doesn’t make much sense to me. Meanwhile Python could just be genuinely frustrated I was going after a small thing

[ketchup777]

Yeah, it's a slightly cursed role. I 100% believe there's both a miller and roleblocker out there so I can't trust any results

Wtf?

why did this make you u wtf titus

[ketchup777]

I just remembered i had some stuff to share about end of day 1 which I made in night 1, will try post some of it later. Ironically Lots was about how I think Koba seems townier than ever but I guess I’ll just cut those bits out

[ketchup777]

Ranger do you ever unvote? (not vote for anyone at some point?)

[ketchup777]

I think Titus feels like she has to scumread me here because she scumreads me in every game we play together. She probably feels like she needs to believably mimic this behavior in order to seem like her usual self, except it's not coming across as genuine here. Her scumread feels more fake and forced than any game we've played recently

for like the millionth time I agree with you

titus‘ black vote doesn’t feel very genuine. feels like she’s given up on light wagon only because it crumbled and now is ready to move elsewhere

[ketchup777]

I think Titus feels like she has to scumread me here because she scumreads me in every game we play together. She probably feels like she needs to believably mimic this behavior in order to seem like her usual self, except it's not coming across as genuine here. Her scumread feels more fake and forced than any game we've played recently

for like the millionth time I agree with you

titus‘ black vote doesn’t feel very genuine. feels like she’s given up on light wagon only because it crumbled and now is ready to move elsewhere

oops the first sentence comes across a bit wrong tone

I agree with you once again*

[ketchup777]

except the bit where you said you could vote me. that no cool

[ketchup777]

If I were to embrace my inner Ranger:


{Jackson, Enchant, me}
{Black}
{Hu Tao}
{UsesPython}
{LightGanski}
{Political Clout, Ranger, Titus, Doctor Drew}

[ketchup777]

PC feels like a memewagon tbh but I’m ok with it

[ketchup777]

I‘m happy to concede on Titus nearer to the end of this day deadline though

[ketchup777]

But where is Drew

VOTE: Doctor Drew

Some people do work ya know

And are you just pushing people you perceive as not active right now?

I still think scum!Drew goes for the Lap fade a high proportion of the time tbh.

And what does townDrew do?

I think town!Drew should consider the claim for longer and how there might be some shenanigans going on rather than immediately assuming it's bogus. Whether town!Drew actually does that is outside of my knowledge

There is absolutely no way you believe this

i believe it. seems like many a crisis could be averted if people actually put any thought in before hammering

[ketchup777]

Well, with all due respect. I think your mindset on that is just wrong. Someone wagoned, claimed a strong role that you are the role of. There is not much thoughts to have, I only backed out because it felt wrong in my gut cuz of my almost lock-town view on him. Nobody else had that

i had the benefit of knowing lap was actually a disloyal cop when i read through the claim (because i read the last message of the thread before the previous 100) but while i was surprised for a second then it made me laugh and I thought it added up. so to me a natural reaction would be that the cop claim, in this type of questionable game, could well be true. even if its not, there was
no
rush
to
eliminate
him

we were like 3 days from ElO and Day 1 had barely started.
rushing it is not helpful
drew should know that
i prefer to play drew for being scum than being narrow-minded

[ketchup777]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

[ketchup777]

@ranger when you get here if you could answer #1989 that;'d be great (ik Python kind of answered for u but i'd be specifically interested in how often you unvote as town as well and why you would/wouldn't unvote)

[ketchup777]

Ranger do you ever unvote? (not vote for anyone at some point?)

When there's reason to.

Lylo, speed unvote (to prevent hammers), voting mechanics, having a requirement to wait, vote thresholds being dangerously low, no idea where to, need to remove the vote with absolutely no idea where to place it, etc.

Otherwise, I see no reason to. You're given two universal tools, wasting the vote is as wasteful as not voicing.

My reads are fluid, I don't need to vote my strongest scumread in the moment to still see the value of voting.

I was curious about how you had Laplacian as only your 4th highest scum read yet didnt unvote or vote for anyone you deemed scummier, when previously you had immediately switched to voting your new top scumreads when they got to the top of your list?

[ketchup777]

You town-read me. I had that feeling. Considering you trust me, you should believe that I am not some anomaly. Others would have that same reaction, Drew and Koba both did the same thing. I'm Town, Koba's town. What makes Drew scum for that? It doesn't. Stop this, please

You weren’t the hammer. Koba was probably high. Drew was not high and he was a knowing hammer. this combo makes me suspect him more, also his backing up of his Laphammering on day 2 has been lacking and poor

[ketchup777]

You argue that the rushing was the reason is also not really accurate. Remember that normal that we lost because of me rushing into conclusions? I am hyperaware of me doing that and even so that didn't even cross my mind. I wanted them goneso.

I think I just have a different outlook to you. To me, a hammer should only be applied with great care or for good reason. in a normal game, I would have sympathy for Drew hammering a cop claim as a cop. In this setup, I do not

[ketchup777]

If I was within range of it when I saw it, I would have hammered. The hammer is semantics at this point.

So you didn’t know you were going to move your vote to Ganski when you voted Lap?

[ketchup777]

If I were to embrace my inner Ranger:
{Jackson, Enchant, me}
{Black}
{Hu Tao}
{UsesPython}
{LightGanski}
{Political Clout, Ranger, Titus, Doctor Drew}

Almost top tier, although your PC/Ranger/Drew reads imo are

tier

ably placed.

hehe (:

[ketchup777]

Also for those curious;
I did ask Alianna if an unannounced Godfather would violate Normal guidelines; the answer was yes.
I asked the followthrough question if two Godfathers would count as one violation or two; the answer is one, so there can be 2 - 3.

I additionally asked if no Vanilla Townie would count as a violation; Alianna confirmed.

Therefore, by the power of Askus Moderatus, we have confirmation; if we have a Godfather or Godfathers, there must be a Vanilla Townie.

cool nice to have it actually confirmed

[ketchup777]

Well, with all due respect. I think your mindset on that is just wrong. Someone wagoned, claimed a strong role that you are the role of. There is not much thoughts to have, I only backed out because it felt wrong in my gut cuz of my almost lock-town view on him. Nobody else had that

i had the benefit of knowing lap was actually a disloyal cop when i read through the claim (because i read the last message of the thread before the previous 100) but while i was surprised for a second then it made me laugh and I thought it added up. so to me a natural reaction would be that the cop claim, in this type of questionable game, could well be true. even if its not, there was
no
rush
to
eliminate
him

we were like 3 days from ElO and Day 1 had barely started.
rushing it is not helpful
drew should know that
i prefer to play drew for being scum than being narrow-minded

Is it just me or has Ketchup reeked of TMI for awhile? I mean, somehow he was was sooooo smart that he figured out Lap was actually a disloyal cop before he claimed it, and he has the amazing forward thinking to just assume that if the Cop(me) walks into the thread and see the person who is on the chopping black(Lap) claim the almost identical role......that the Cop(me) should instead think 'well this makes perfect sense, clearly Lap is town here' instead of 'oh hey look, clearly Lap is fake claiming to save his ass, let's dispose of the scum butt'.

I will study up on my game so that next time someone who is about to limmed who has almost the identical role as me, and oh by the way the other flipped Cop(Koba) was trying to get me to hammer as well.....I will just assume that no scum ever fake claims and just let everyone live.

-snip-

lol

when did I say I figured out Lap was a disloyal cop before he claimed it??!!?!????

[ketchup777]

Jackson, can you and ketchup work together?

This is a strange request. Like do you think Jackson is the ketchup whisperer? Do you think he can convince ketchup to scumread me and townread you? I don't get it

Jackson is the what now?

[ketchup777]

You argue that the rushing was the reason is also not really accurate. Remember that normal that we lost because of me rushing into conclusions? I am hyperaware of me doing that and even so that didn't even cross my mind. I wanted them goneso.

I think I just have a different outlook to you. To me, a hammer should only be applied with great care or for good reason. in a normal game, I would have sympathy for Drew hammering a cop claim as a cop. In this setup, I do not

what a weird narrative.

be wary of the shrike

[ketchup777]

You town-read me. I had that feeling. Considering you trust me, you should believe that I am not some anomaly. Others would have that same reaction, Drew and Koba both did the same thing. I'm Town, Koba's town. What makes Drew scum for that? It doesn't. Stop this, please

You weren’t the hammer. Koba was probably high. Drew was not high and he was a knowing hammer. this combo makes me suspect him more, also his backing up of his Laphammering on day 2 has been lacking and poor

Really?

You are tossing away Koba's wanting me to hammer as they were 'probably high'?

That's your case on me?

This is why I am scum??

Titus, again....spit your fire case on me as well please

I’m like 99% sure Koba was high

[ketchup777]

You argue that the rushing was the reason is also not really accurate. Remember that normal that we lost because of me rushing into conclusions? I am hyperaware of me doing that and even so that didn't even cross my mind. I wanted them goneso.

I think I just have a different outlook to you. To me, a hammer should only be applied with great care or for good reason. in a normal game, I would have sympathy for Drew hammering a cop claim as a cop. In this setup, I do not

You do have a different outlook than me, that doesn't forgive throwing your own thoughts down another persons throat and calling them scum for not fitting with it well

When Drew proves his innocence I’ll be more than happy to take my vote off

[ketchup777]

@Doctor Drew, can you explain why you investigated Python?

Hey Drew, please answer this

@Drew@Drew@Drew@Drew stop stalling

[ketchup777]

If I was within range of it when I saw it, I would have hammered. The hammer is semantics at this point.

So you didn’t know you were going to move your vote to Ganski when you voted Lap?

No, I voted them instinctively and then my read pulled me back.

okok i couldn’t really tell tbh

[ketchup777]

Well, with all due respect. I think your mindset on that is just wrong. Someone wagoned, claimed a strong role that you are the role of. There is not much thoughts to have, I only backed out because it felt wrong in my gut cuz of my almost lock-town view on him. Nobody else had that

i had the benefit of knowing lap was actually a disloyal cop when i read through the claim (because i read the last message of the thread before the previous 100) but while i was surprised for a second then it made me laugh and I thought it added up. so to me a natural reaction would be that the cop claim, in this type of questionable game, could well be true. even if its not, there was
no
rush
to
eliminate
him

we were like 3 days from ElO and Day 1 had barely started.
rushing it is not helpful
drew should know that
i prefer to play drew for being scum than being narrow-minded

Is it just me or has Ketchup reeked of TMI for awhile?

I mean, somehow he was was sooooo smart that he figured out Lap was actually a disloyal cop before he claimed it

, and

he has the amazing forward thinking to just assume that if the Cop(me) walks into the thread and see the person who is on the chopping black(Lap) claim the almost identical role......that the Cop(me) should instead think 'well this makes perfect sense, clearly Lap is town here' instead of 'oh hey look, clearly Lap is fake claiming to save his ass, let's dispose of the scum butt'.

I will study up on my game so that next time someone who is about to limmed who has almost the identical role as me, and oh by the way the other flipped Cop(Koba) was trying to get me to hammer as well.....I will just assume that no scum ever fake claims and just let everyone live.

-snip-

lol

when did I say I figured out Lap was a disloyal cop before he claimed it??!!?!????

I misread the first part, but please address everything else about the post, and what I just quoted you in

Pre Edit: That is such a lazy read on me Titus. You know full well people confuse my town and scum games all the time.....how can I try to replicate one or the other?

not true

I never said anything like that either. Brilliant spinning of what I said though, smooth! It doesn’t make perfect sense. But it isn’t totally impossible. Jackson realised this, I think, even if he says it was also because he townread Lap. It doesn’t need to make perfect sense. It’s impossible it would make perfect sense. It only needs to be possible to give you pause and use some of the, idk, 7 and a half days to mull it over?? rather than hammer in 9 minutes????

I mean, it was funny, but also you’re just exaggerating to ridicule my points and dodge them

[ketchup777]

If I was within range of it when I saw it, I would have hammered. The hammer is semantics at this point.

So you didn’t know you were going to move your vote to Ganski when you voted Lap?

No, I voted them instinctively and then my read pulled me back.

okok i couldn’t really tell tbh

I've been trying to tell you for a long long time

a quick confirmation to hold you to something later in court can’t harm (:

[ketchup777]

@Doctor Drew, can you explain why you investigated Python?

Hey Drew, please answer this

@Drew@Drew@Drew@Drew stop stalling

Only if you stop stalling as well respond to all parts of what I asked you as well

Python is one of the few who can correctly read me consistently, and also is solid as scum

So I wanted to know if he were to call me town, it isn't a pocket attempt

Pre Edit: Fell better Titus

I feel less concerned that Ranger is scum

for what it’s worth I don’t like this reasoning. You should be copping people you can’t read I think, not people you already have meta on

[ketchup777]

Waiting on ketchup to do a particular thing, then I'm gonna say a particular thing and then we're all gonna laugh and laugh and have fun

that sounds ominous

[ketchup777]

Ketchup. I don't want to keep wasting my breath.

Koba, Drew and myself all had the exact same underlying reaction to it, the outcome different because we're different people with different reads and assumptions. You're barking up the wrong tree. Titus just said (in a botched quote) that "everyone would have" which is almost exactly what I'm saying. Do you realise where your assumptions are? Do you notice this entire part of your read is based on a single assumption?

Yep it’s based on an assumption. I think, in the kindest way possible, you showed yourself to be fairly radical last game in voting and I wouldn’t be surprised at your voting someone quickly in a dangerous situation. Koba I hadn’t played with before but also seemed to be a fairly crazy player (playing while high, deliberately trying to look scummy, fake claiming miller in his first post, etc etc) so I can forgive his dangerous vote as well. but as you pointed out you are different people. Drew felt (more last game than this game) as if he is a somewhat analytical and careful player (not that you aren’t, please take no offence). like, he’s even claimed this game to have a notes PT. Yet he rushes into a hammer without stopping to think about it or consider his alleged notes? Odd

[ketchup777]

And he keeps dipping at important points. He can’t be at work forever, he’s sitting back to carefully draft his responses, maybe with help from maf

[ketchup777]

Cut the fluff, what do you think that assumption is?

Yes, I assuming that an analytical town player should take more than 9 minutes to think about a claim. I know I am not everyone, but i assure you I would probably take at least a day. I know I am not everyone, but town don’t need to rush. rush to Muslim=scum

[ketchup777]

mislim** lmao

[ketchup777]

I make it something like (horrible horrible figures I know)

scum!Drew hammers Lap immediately 85% of the time
town!Drew hammers Lap immediately: 40%
after some thought: 10%
thinks about it and doesn’t hammer: 50%

[ketchup777]

And he keeps dipping at important points. He can’t be at work forever, he’s sitting back to carefully draft his responses, maybe with help from maf

I don't want to speak for Drew of course, but this line of reasoning gets under my nerves a bit. Please just stick to the game content okay? I remember someone using this argument against me when I was in the middle of a rush at my old work and it made me feel so shit.

amount of time taken to write posts, especially when Drew said he’s skimming the thread constantly, is another potential clue to me. But I promise I’ll (probably) never vote someone solely on them being slower to reply than I’d like in a utopia

[ketchup777]

Cut the fluff, what do you think that assumption is?

Yes, I assuming that an analytical town player should take more than 9 minutes to think about a claim. I know I am not everyone, but i assure you I would probably take at least a day. I know I am not everyone, but town don’t need to rush. rush to Muslim=scum

I don't even think that's really what the core of the assumption is but I'll roll with it as it's close enough. That paired with you not really taking the entire context to heart, you read through that context with the knowledge that it was real before seeing how it played out. Do you think you are able to look back at that context with an unbiased mind? I don't think you're showing that you can. It's also been shown you don't know the weight of a Cop claim. Either one of those two in addition to the assumption that you made I think is pulling you right off the right path.

I might be biased
but these be my thoughts

[ketchup777]

Ketchup can you drop the colors gimmick

they’re too pretty ):

[ketchup777]

It makes your posts harder to read

it’s just simplest to split up a post with them tbh sry unless you have other ideas

[ketchup777]

I know they're your thoughts, I'm trying to get you to see and dissect the flaws for yourself and then come to the conclusion you come to. I think currently you're seeing what fits and going with it instead of looking at it any bit further. I consider the read wrong, and I'm not saying that I know that I'm right I just don't think you're looking at this clearly (coming from someone who just cannot seem to see what you see)

sure sure

maybe a bad point but might you also not be biased to knowing you reacted in a certain way so if Drew mimics you it seems good?

[ketchup777]

It makes your posts harder to read

it’s just simplest to split up a post with them tbh sry unless you have other ideas

I use dashes

‐-----

Like this

Ok noted but I do really love colours ): and I’ve seen other people using colours before me so I assumed it was no problem

you should see my geography projects and stuff from a few years ago, they were so pretty and colourful

[ketchup777]

If you look at it from the PoV that

1. Drew doesn't play like you assumed he would
2. The Cop claim holds a lot more weight than you know
3. Try your best to forget that they were Town. They were the wagon for the day and then they claimed your exact role.

Imagine yourself in this spot. What's your thoughts on him?

I would be a bit taken aback I imagine, yes. I was a little surprised initially at seeing Lap’s flip, then mega surprised when I saw Koba’s flip. However I would rather see someone else hammer to get more info on the whole situation.

Also the fact that Lap claimed Disloyal is important, it’s a clue that something fishy could be going on. It requires thought. Unannounced godfathers is not an obvious conclusion imo, idk if I would even have managed to come to that on my own after days (tho ofc I barely knew what a godfather was until checking the wiki). In what world could a Disloyal cop make sense? Is it just a meme role, or is it genuinely useful? Not a point to speedhammer

[ketchup777]

It depends on people and context. Normally I just shrug it but I'm struggling as is to comprehend. Oddly it might make me easier to read but it's like my mind and body are trapped by a porticulls (that gate woth spikes).

who is this responding to

[ketchup777]

Nah so you're doing the thing again, injecting your own playstyle

You told me to imagine myself in this spot. So I did??

[ketchup777]

also sorry I don’t know if anyone cares but I will have my end of day 1 thoughts out soon I just keep putting it off for not much reason but I can’t access computer today anymore

[ketchup777]

Nah so you're doing the thing again, injecting your own playstyle

You told me to imagine myself in this spot. So I did??

Put yourself in the shoes of someone that isn't you, that was the goal

Oh you want me to imagine I’m drew? I’ll try again

[ketchup777]

It makes your posts harder to read

it’s just simplest to split up a post with them tbh sry unless you have other ideas

I use dashes

‐-----

Like this

Ok noted but I do really love colours ): and I’ve seen other people using colours before me so I assumed it was no problem

you should see my geography projects and stuff from a few years ago, they were so pretty and colourful

It's not a problem. I like the colors. I've never seen anyone complain about them before

<33

[ketchup777]

Nah so you're doing the thing again, injecting your own playstyle

You told me to imagine myself in this spot. So I did??

Put yourself in the shoes of someone that isn't you, that was the goal

Oh you want me to imagine I’m drew? I’ll try again

I’m sorry I’m struggling on this task

I have my own unique personality and adapting myself to be someone else just feels weird

I also don’t really know Drew well enough to know what he would do with much certainty, I don’t think i can do this

[ketchup777]

Nah so you're doing the thing again, injecting your own playstyle

You told me to imagine myself in this spot. So I did??

Put yourself in the shoes of someone that isn't you, that was the goal

Oh you want me to imagine I’m drew? I’ll try again

I’m sorry I’m struggling on this task

I have my own unique personality and adapting myself to be someone else just feels weird

I also don’t really know Drew well enough to know what he would do with much certainty, I don’t think i can do this

That's perfectly fine man, and this is not a gotcha by any means but do you realise this could be an issue for you that could very well be affecting your read on Drew?

Yes, it was always in the back of the mind but you’ve made me realise it might be a slightly bigger problem than I thought. maybe Drew just likes hammering I don’t know

[ketchup777]

That's all I wanted to help you to realise. This back and forth swung my ketchup pendulum to the other direction

ok nice doing business with you o7

[ketchup777]

I know unvoting Drew will get me townpoints but I can’t safely vote Titus rn (I don’t want day to end yet) and Ranger is becoming slightly townier over time so I’ll just keep it here for now but might move it tomorrow, I’ll see

[ketchup777]

I'm not saying your read is wrong btw as I would have no way of knowing, I am saying I disagree with it and I haven't been able to follow your logic at all

yeah okay sure

[ketchup777]

consider my vote on Titus for now but also I would never do her like that while she’s ill (I totally would but whatever)

[ketchup777]

I know unvoting Drew will get me townpoints but I can’t safely vote Titus rn (I don’t want day to end yet) and Ranger is becoming slightly townier over time so I’ll just keep it here for now but might move it tomorrow, I’ll see

Oh, does that mean your read on Drew has changed??

I’m sorryyyy but I haven’t banished the scum!Drew voting Lap thoughts. However maybe there are more worlds than I anticipated where town!Drew also votes Lap, so while I think we’re still in the scum side, it’s 7-3 he’s town or whatever so even if he would hammer less as town he’d be town more often so it might cancel out to not worth it

[ketchup777]

I know unvoting Drew will get me townpoints but I can’t safely vote Titus rn (I don’t want day to end yet) and Ranger is becoming slightly townier over time so I’ll just keep it here for now but might move it tomorrow, I’ll see

Oh, does that mean your read on Drew has changed??

I’m sorryyyy but I haven’t banished the scum!Drew voting Lap thoughts. However maybe there are more worlds than I anticipated where town!Drew also votes Lap, so while I think we’re still in the scum side, it’s 7-3 he’s town or whatever so even if he would hammer less as town he’d be town more often so it might cancel out to not worth it

maths? vibes? neither is perfect. I want more hard PoE like the busting of OutWorldEr last time ):

[ketchup777]

Actually your good company in the unvote pile let’s reunite. Once together at the bottom of Ranger’s readslist, we were cruelly separated without warning. I almost died of heartbreak. When would I get to be with Jackson? i pondered. I don’t want to vote Black.

"Maybe Jackson is unattainable right now" whispered the voices into my ear. "Maybe you have to give this up, Ketchup"

But then, an opportunity! Make haste! To be together again once more, it hath all the beauteous qualities of a dream yet all the sureness of reality!"

UNVOTE: Doctor Drew

[ketchup777]

SHIT NOOO

[ketchup777]

SO CRUEL IS OUR SEPARATION.

pedit: omgggg <333

[ketchup777]

UNVOTE:

My soul is on Black

okey (;

[ketchup777]

I don't get these last few pages

Hi

So jackson and I are very talented at talking to each other

what do you wanna know

[ketchup777]

I was curious about how you had Laplacian as only your 4th highest scum read yet didnt unvote or vote for anyone you deemed scummier, when previously you had immediately switched to voting your new top scumreads when they got to the top of your list?

When there's no serious wagons, I've every reason to vote my strongest scumread, as moving my vote doesn't impact anything already there, and can shift the game.

When there's serious wagons, I've every reason to vote the scumread of mine with the most support, usually in the form of most votes.

My serious choices D1 were Laplacian and light. I scumread both and both wagons were loosely equal. Laplacian had

slightly

more, so I kept my vote there.

You said you weren’t very confident in your reads tho, in fact were dissatisfied with them. Didn’t you fear wagoning so quickly?

[ketchup777]

be wary of the shrike

It shrikes when you least expect,

*shovels Ranger towards the townpile*

[ketchup777]

I don't get these last few pages

Hi

So jackson and I are very talented at talking to each other

what do you wanna know

That's good. Not following the substance regarding drew

Jackson thinks Drew is town. Jackson and Koba, honest cops they are (I hope), both didn’t believe Lap‘s claim and voted Lap. So Jackson can see where Drew is coming from and thinks the way he acted aligns with how Jackson acted.

I think it would be best for Town to take time to digest the claim and think about if it could be true. My conclusion would likely be that it could be, so I would not quickhammer Lap

[ketchup777]

this was Titus's first post of the day.

Ranger's not scum.
There's got to be a catch.

No fewer than 3 cops

in a game. Wtf

Titus

immediately

claimed third cop, and said there must be a catch, claiming an innocent on me.

Why would

Titus

, infamous for keeping cards close to her chest unless absolutely necessary, claim Cop

unprompted

, and out her innocent with zero pressure on

either her or her target

? She had no votes, I had no votes, both were under minimal suspicion.

From the perspective of a town-Titus

, why (out)?

At the time she claimed

, it was fully possible

she was the only living investigative left

.

A scum-Titus gave it away with the bolded part, the true key. "no fewer than 3 cops".

Why did Titus assume there were

no fewer than

three cops, instead of

at least

three

?

That's the perspective slip.

This is the heart of it.

the rest is awesome but can you just explain the 'no fewer than' vs 'at least' bit in more words

[ketchup777]

consider my vote on Titus for now but also I would never do her like that while she’s ill (I totally would but whatever)

Please return to voting her when you feel it's safe to. Though we need not end the day, she should be the lim today.

sure

[ketchup777]

Yeah, it's a slightly cursed role. I 100% believe there's both a miller and roleblocker out there so I can't trust any results

Wtf?

why did this make you u wtf titus

Also please respond to this when you can Titus

[ketchup777]

A scum-Titus gave it away with the bolded part, the true key. "no fewer than 3 cops".

Why did Titus assume there were

no fewer than

three cops, instead of

at least

three

?

Those statements are logically identical.
No fewer than three = three or more
At least three = three or more

yeah that’s what I thought too

[ketchup777]

From the perspective of a town-Titus

, why couldn't this have been a valid setup?

Spoiler: Hypothetical Setup

This is a Valid Normal setup

Town Disloyal Cop
Town Cop
Town Cop
Vanilla Townie x 7

Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Goon x2

At the risk of doing the same thing I accused ketchup of doing: because that'd still bare minimum generate one hard clear a day assuming perfect roleblocks, more realistically two+ clears a day which mechanically locks the game by d3 if scum get unlucky with checks and kills

this one I can get behind, however it’s possible they had 2 ascetic mafia or something vs 3 cops

[ketchup777]

From the perspective of a town-Titus

, why couldn't this have been a valid setup?

Spoiler: Hypothetical Setup

This is a Valid Normal setup

Town Disloyal Cop
Town Cop
Town Cop
Vanilla Townie x 7

Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Goon x2

At the risk of doing the same thing I accused ketchup of doing: because that'd still bare minimum generate one hard clear a day assuming perfect roleblocks, more realistically two+ clears a day which mechanically locks the game by d3 if scum get unlucky with checks and kills

this one I can get behind, however it’s possible they had 2 ascetic mafia or something vs 3 cops

with some ascetic townies thrown in for good measure

[ketchup777]

Proposed cop plan if Light gets hammered:

Ketchup+Jackson—> cop Hu Tao
Hu Tao+Black—> cop Jackson
Ranger+Titus—> cop Doctor Drew
usesPython+Doctor Drew —>cop Black
Political Clout—> cop Ketchup

resurfacing this, proposing sub light in where Titus was. Python‘s idea about all of us should initially claim to be a modifier cop at the start of the next day and cop 'who we want to' also has merit.

Python’s plan was:

—>if normal town cop according to the list
above
—> if modified cop, you can cop whoever you think you should
—> at the start of tomorrow, we all pretend/truly say that we are a modifier cop and copped someone else than who we were meant to.
—> unless we happened to get a guilty on the list check, then we should out that
—> if a town cop dies, we know for sure they had an inno on the list check. If you don’t come out without guilty on your list check, it’s assumed you got an inno or you are modifier cop

[ketchup777]

Proposed cop plan if Light gets hammered:

Ketchup+Jackson—> cop Hu Tao
Hu Tao+Black—> cop Jackson
Ranger+Titus—> cop Doctor Drew
usesPython+Doctor Drew —>cop Black
Political Clout—> cop Ketchup

resurfacing this, proposing sub light in where Titus was. Python‘s idea about all of us should initially claim to be a modifier cop at the start of the next day and cop 'who we want to' also has merit.

Python’s plan was:

—>if normal town cop according to the list
above
—> if modified cop, you can cop whoever you think you should
—> at the start of tomorrow, we all pretend/truly say that we are a modifier cop and copped someone else than who we were meant to.
—> unless we happened to get a guilty on the list check, then we should out that
—> if a town cop dies, we know for sure they had an inno on the list check. If you don’t come out without guilty on your list check, it’s assumed you got an inno or you are modifier cop

I tried to create pairings that I thought were unlikely to be paired. Hu Tao+Black were hard to place anywhere so I placed them together and hoped for the best

[ketchup777]

At the risk of doing the same thing I accused ketchup of doing: because that'd still bare minimum generate one hard clear a day assuming perfect roleblocks, more realistically two+ clears a day which mechanically locks the game by d3 if scum get unlucky with checks and kills

You are focusing on the specific setup example provided rather than the actual issue.

Titus as town would have no way of knowing the setup. Titus as town would have no way of knowing she wasn't the last living investigative. There's thousands, millions, of possible setups Alianna could create where there's precisely three Cops, facing a scumteam which has answers to it.

Why did Titus out despite the risk she was the last investigative

? Especially given Titus has a strong habit of dealing in subtleties, her claim indicates she knew there were more Cops.

In response to this and the linguistics analysis of 'no fewer than' i understand and I back it. I’ve been out today but hopefully I can get out my outstanding end-of-day-1 questions (very late, I know) and then once they’ve been dealt with I’ll send Titus over the Styx to Hades

[ketchup777]

the rest is awesome but can you just explain the 'no fewer than' vs 'at least' bit in more words

"at least three" as a wording places focus on three with the possibility of more;
"no fewer than" as a wording places focus on the possibility of more with the three being the minimum.

Language usage matters.
"at least 3" would imply 3 with the

possibility

of more (where Titus could be the potential last Cop);

By stating 'no fewer than', Titus is implying there's

far more than

3.

That difference translates into the implication of the statement.

Still this words about nothing. Everyone and their brother was claiming cop and is a cop. This is chopping a hair and it doesn't make any sense.

Right now, at least one of you and uses is scum here.

why is at least one of Ranger or uses scum

[ketchup777]

Yeah, it's a slightly cursed role. I 100% believe there's both a miller and roleblocker out there so I can't trust any results

Wtf?

why did this make you u wtf titus

Also please respond to this when you can Titus

Titus and Drew are oh so good at dodging questions. It won’t work tho. Please say Titus why Lap‘s post made you post 'Wtf?'.

[ketchup777]

ok sure

current thoughts on Drew?

[ketchup777]

ok im going to blurt any thoughts I had from end of day 1 for the next 10/20 mins or however long it takes to get them down

[ketchup777]

lets see where this goes

VOTE: laplacian

these two aren't a team clearly. Lap just entered the game a few pages ago and then lg goes after them irony abounds.

ik they’re not scum scum because Lap flip but is day 1 distancing unheard of?

[ketchup777]

ok im going to blurt any thoughts I had from end of day 1 for the next 10/20 mins or however long it takes to get them down

no thanks just do one big post thanks

I want to but I can’t get to laptop without risking waking up my parents sorryyy so on phone it will be a lot easier to split them up I know I should’ve done this 2 hours ago but like Alice in borderland manga is too addictive ok

[ketchup777]

lets see where this goes

VOTE: laplacian

these two aren't a team clearly. Lap just entered the game a few pages ago and then lg goes after them irony abounds.

ik they’re not scum scum because Lap flip but is day 1 distancing unheard of?

what is your goal with this post?

this is the first of anything I noted while reading but didn’t ask yet (at least I can’t remember asking it)

[ketchup777]

Like my notes just said '#647 weird' so like idk if I saw more at the time but may as well go for what I think I meant

[ketchup777]

I also have a whole section about a plausible messenger fakeclaim I could claim but I’ll save that for another time

[ketchup777]

her response was not ‘no i wasn’t doing that' but(paraphrasing) 'I would not be capable of doing that'.

Your paraphrase is wrong as I never said anything of the sort.

In 780 you said 'I‘m honoured you think I’m capable of giving [it] that level of forethought. Alas'[it=manipulating the reads lists to allow Ranger to vote Light]. So you did say something of the sort

[ketchup777]

I also have a whole section about a plausible messenger fakeclaim I could claim but I’ll save that for another time

Oh yeah we almost forgot about that, why did you claim a message?

I hadn’t seen everyone had started claiming innos (also I had just woke up) and I had already been thinking about claiming fruit vendor or message as a two edged sword.
1. to see if anyone claimed to be the one who sent me something, then I can call them out
2. to divert mafia off the scent of the PRs and try get them not to shoot me at night (I hadn’t fully processed Koba‘s flip but at the point of me cooking this up night 1 I assumed I was the final investigative. When I saw Koba‘s flip I still kinda assumed there were only 3 and also I was sleepy so just decided to go for it anyway. then actually reading the D2 starting pages made me look silly.

I was torn between claiming fruit or message, fruit would be more likely to get someone to fakeclaim being fruit vendor but also I think the optimal strategy with fruit is not to claim it unless someone wants you to corroborate? So that one didn’t seem like it could quite add up. So I just went for the message. it did nothing tho. sad

[ketchup777]

ok im going to blurt any thoughts I had from end of day 1 for the next 10/20 mins or however long it takes to get them down

Go off, King!

(:

[ketchup777]

feel free to keep interrupting me btw I’m in no rush and happy to explain things as they come in

[ketchup777]

944 to 945 Political Clout plummeted in your readslist Ranger. PC posted a lot on page 37, which posts pinged you as scummy?

[ketchup777]

ok im going to blurt any thoughts I had from end of day 1 for the next 10/20 mins or however long it takes to get them down

no thanks just do one big post thanks

I want to but I can’t get to laptop without risking waking up my parents sorryyy so on phone it will be a lot easier to split them up I know I should’ve done this 2 hours ago but like Alice in borderland manga is too addictive ok

it be like that sometimes.

Also if I do a big post some people won’t read it but if I do little posts it’ll create the illusion that it’ll be quick to read

magic

[ketchup777]

why do I have so many notes on Koba being high I have no recollection of analysing how likely it was that he dreamt about Arko being towny but apparently I did that, maybe

I

was high

[ketchup777]

My top two scumreads are the leading wagons. Seems right to me

what makes light ganski scum?

It's mostly gut based on the way she called my townread premature. Her responses to me after that didn't really move the needle that much

I'm curious

If I'm still your top scumread, why did you jump on laplacian after me?

I have this down as an Interesting Anti-Black Point

[ketchup777]

reads list time

Spoiler:

towny:

usesPython: great catch in 813. I can't see scum cross-referencing lists & pages like that.
ketchup: while I don't agree with their reads, they're actively trying to scumhunt and think
drew: good logic, I like how he argued with both usesPython and JV

neutral:

HT: i said they were towny earlier, but that dropped back to neutral after mischaracterizng me in JOAT.
JacksonVirgo: frustation over tunneling chat seems genuine. But I can't tell is frustration is from not wanting to admit tunnel or scum mad that their pushed collapsed. good taste in gifs tho
DkKoba: miller claim, ignore until d3 unless something super scummy happens

scummy:

Ranger: still dont like dem magic lists. Super easy to fake the progression to just coast along with prevailing opinions while looking like you're scumhunting
light_ganski: see 827

Everyone else either has low posts or I'm having trouble reading still.

Why do you feel the need to specify your agreement with ketchup when the read has nothing to do with that.

How much of a gap is between ganski and ranger

he needs add a bunch of extraneous information to make the list look like it actually contains any original thought on most of the players in it, that's why

(it doesn't)

I didn’t really get where either of you were coming from here. I think saying whether you agree with someone‘s reads is an integral part of most analysis?

[ketchup777]

I would have accepted it slipped my mind. I forgor oopsie. if you're having trouble reading me why am I not in the neutral bin as I assume that is what it's there for.

I treat neutral as "I have thought about them a bunch but I'm still not sure what's going on" or "you did something towny but then you did something scummy and they've cancelled out". DkKoba's in neutral because miller claim. HT had town vibes and then mischaracterized stuff hard. Neutral to me is "there's some shit going on with them, but I'm not sure how to resolve it yet", not no information. Tossing people in neutral because I haven't found anything interesting to discuss yet is just a waste of space

you should have done your homework and counted my posts I only had 27 when you posted your reads list so I also would have accepted your first reason that I hadn't posted enough. I believe you less now.

VOTE: laplacian

This response from PC felt like it was ignoring the bulk of Lap‘s response on purpose. Seemed like PC was trying to look smart by quoting the number of posts in his ISO (which takes like 6 seconds to check) and use that to fuel a rubbish discrediting of Lap‘s explanation. In the nicest possible way, PC‘s post reminded me of Dudley Dursley:

"36? But last year, last year, I had 37!"

which probably means it was written by someone unwilling to see other people‘s perspectives

[ketchup777]

Yeah, it's a slightly cursed role. I 100% believe there's both a miller and roleblocker out there so I can't trust any results

Wtf?

why did this make you u wtf titus

Also please respond to this when you can Titus

Titus and Drew are oh so good at dodging questions. It won’t work tho. Please say Titus why Lap‘s post made you post 'Wtf?'.

Lap was suggesting cop but a cop that couldn't trust themselves. I didn't know what to do with it and posted off the cuff.

The miller was already claimed (twice!), and a roleblocker would play into the whole idea of the setup being questionable and memey. I believed that there was probably Miller+roleblocker when I read Lap‘s post at the time. The fact that no one said they were roleblocked

probably

means there’s no roleblocker, also I’m not sure if

Roleblocker Godfather

counts as a normal role? is there a modifier that would make it work, combined or simultaneous maybe?

Anyway, I thought Lap was on the money. certainly not far enough to go 'wtf'

[ketchup777]

ok i think that’s it, most of that turned out to not even be questions just minddump, hope it helps at least one person (:

[ketchup777]

With that out of the way:

VOTE: Titus

if this is wrong, I’m sorry. I think you could make more of an effort to seem towny; dat‘s 2 games in a row now you’ve been pretty quickly wagoned. hopefully this one you are actually scum

see you on the other side o7

[ketchup777]

also I’m not sure if

Roleblocker Godfather

counts as a normal role?

Mafia Roleblocker Godfather is normal legal and does exactly what you're looking for

Oh ok thanks!

well, no one claiming roleblock point still stands.

[ketchup777]

UNVOTE:

hang on did. we decide if we were following cop plan?

[ketchup777]

reads list time

Spoiler:

towny:

usesPython: great catch in 813. I can't see scum cross-referencing lists & pages like that.
ketchup: while I don't agree with their reads, they're actively trying to scumhunt and think
drew: good logic, I like how he argued with both usesPython and JV

neutral:

HT: i said they were towny earlier, but that dropped back to neutral after mischaracterizng me in JOAT.
JacksonVirgo: frustation over tunneling chat seems genuine. But I can't tell is frustration is from not wanting to admit tunnel or scum mad that their pushed collapsed. good taste in gifs tho
DkKoba: miller claim, ignore until d3 unless something super scummy happens

scummy:

Ranger: still dont like dem magic lists. Super easy to fake the progression to just coast along with prevailing opinions while looking like you're scumhunting
light_ganski: see 827

Everyone else either has low posts or I'm having trouble reading still.

Why do you feel the need to specify your agreement with ketchup when the read has nothing to do with that.

How much of a gap is between ganski and ranger

he needs add a bunch of extraneous information to make the list look like it actually contains any original thought on most of the players in it, that's why

(it doesn't)

I didn’t really get where either of you were coming from here. I think saying whether you agree with someone‘s reads is an integral part of most analysis?

I said it because it felt like they wanted to read you a particular way but wanted to lessen the worth of your input or put their foot in the door so they can back out of the read with no serious repercussions as they seeded a reason to flip on you already

hmm okey

[ketchup777]

Proposed cop plan if Light gets hammered:

Ketchup+Jackson—> cop Hu Tao
Hu Tao+Black—> cop Jackson
Ranger+Titus—> cop Doctor Drew
usesPython+Doctor Drew —>cop Black
Political Clout—> cop Ketchup

resurfacing this, proposing sub light in where Titus was. Python‘s idea about all of us should initially claim to be a modifier cop at the start of the next day and cop 'who we want to' also has merit.

Python’s plan was:

—>if normal town cop according to the list
above
—> if modified cop, you can cop whoever you think you should
—> at the start of tomorrow, we all pretend/truly say that we are a modifier cop and copped someone else than who we were meant to.
—> unless we happened to get a guilty on the list check, then we should out that
—> if a town cop dies, we know for sure they had an inno on the list check. If you don’t come out without guilty on your list check, it’s assumed you got an inno or you are modifier cop

@cops
do this

this bit is optional
VOTE: Titus

[ketchup777]

UNVOTE: serious comment?

[ketchup777]

??!??!!

[ketchup777]

you weren’t going to die whaaa I’m so confused

[ketchup777]

don’t answer if it’s a serious comment sorry, I understand, you’re getting it out before the night.

[ketchup777]

errr

[ketchup777]

Should we all claim a redcheck now incase our modifier cop dies?

[ketchup777]

As a headstart motivated loyal arsonist i actually solved this game N0

[ketchup777]

err… I can go back to voting Titus right?

[ketchup777]

idkkk i mean I can as the modal verb to be able to but can I as the optimal strategy

[ketchup777]

[quote=ketchup777 post_id=14118588 post_num=2303 time=<a href="tel:1710030777" style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">1710030777</a> user_id=37327]
err… I can go back to voting Titus right?

Why would you when I got a totally serious red check
[/quote]

aaahhh

[ketchup777]

VOTE: Titus

[ketchup777]

Ok but have you considered Ranger?

yes

but Ranger is a fellow linguistics scrutiniser enjoyer so I back her

[ketchup777]

i seem to be too indecisive to make hammering a good idea but it’s not like um that certain on anyone elseeee I would go for Drew PC or maybe Light toooo but idkkk

[ketchup777]

prehammering

[ketchup777]

doesn’t seem like Drew PC or Light Are going today. I could’ve taken Light at one point but she was townier back then. Now I think Titus is the play

[ketchup777]

seems wrong to let Enchant hammer tho when they’ve done hardly anything apart from claim
VT aahh I want more juice from the day I’m sorryyyyy


UNVOTE:

[ketchup777]

oh I need to quickly fulfil operation:voteeveryone as well

VOTE: Jackson

[ketchup777]

VOTE: Political Clout

dragging the day out maybe but might get something

[ketchup777]

and I was ready to sleep with Titus at E-1. sigh

[ketchup777]

im sorry i just really don’t want to be wrong

[ketchup777]

but I really want to be right

VOTE: Titus

[ketchup777]

2289 = cop plan

read it or bad things happen (:

night!

[ketchup777]

Imagine if this was me softing the indecisive modifier LMAO

[ketchup777]

everyone wait till Ranger gets online at least

[ketchup777]

Like if Ranger is actually a good cop quickhammering will be disastrous

[ketchup777]

rip Jackson, I assume maf were trying to hit PR but he was also strongly townread

[ketchup777]

I got inno on Hu Tao btw

[ketchup777]

but 1/2 other people are free to cop Hu Tao tonight if you wanna verify

[ketchup777]

rip Jackson, I assume maf were trying to hit PR

lmao xd

yeah well trying to hit a modifier lmao

[ketchup777]

Ok so obviously scum!Ranger will have a harder time beating Light‘s accusation if Ranger has to claim first, and vice versa. Who thinks

—>Ranger should claim her modifier before Light (needs to say why she has been guiltied)
—>Light should claim her role before Ranger



I think once we know both of their roles we come to a decision about which to take out today, then lim the other tomorrow if we chose the wrong one today

[ketchup777]

i did some VCA stuff that made Light look kinda sus btw I can get that out in maybe 12 hours or so

[ketchup777]

I don't believe LG's claim

mmm neither but let’s hear both out

[ketchup777]

... There was competing claims?

between ranger and light some type of different flavored cop.

And what competing?

one of them just called the other scum.

Today.

You said yesterday.

They didn't reveal but they were the only modified town cop.

it wasn’t/isnt impossible we had 3 modified cops. Only today can we be certain they clash

[ketchup777]

Light/Black/PC would make a lot of sense methinks.

Black doing some mediocre distancing attempts to start today off

[ketchup777]

I don't do mediocre distancing attempts as scum. That's an insult to my scum game

sorry, i typed it while disembarking from the bus so I wasn’t really concentrating, I realise now it wasn’t a very good choice of words.

Black doing some distancing attempts*

[ketchup777]

Wait, does this mean that sometimes Enchant really is scum here as well??

Enchant is still the designated VT

that aged poorly

[ketchup777]

Should we not wait for ranger? Why so many votes

also kinda weird that python and drew just voted immediately.

you two also rushed to a light vote… like I agree with you but also shouldn’t you unvote?

[ketchup777]

Should we not wait for ranger? Why so many votes

also kinda weird that python and drew just voted immediately.

you two also rushed to a light vote… like I agree with you but also shouldn’t you unvote?

Light is confirmed scum. Ranger is confirmed town. There is a difference

your and PC‘s posts were before Ranger had revealed she was a VT. How was it confirmed?

[ketchup777]

Im still trying to work out how Light can get an 'ambiguous' result on Enchant yet a hard guilty on Ranger tbh

[ketchup777]

Im still trying to work out how Light can get an 'ambiguous' result on Enchant yet a hard guilty on Ranger tbh

okay ignore the fact that they're confirmed scum.

lol i think it’s like 99-1 she is I just want to see if there’s any defence she can muster

[ketchup777]

light+enchant+Ranger would be funny

[ketchup777]

Im still trying to work out how Light can get an 'ambiguous' result on Enchant yet a hard guilty on Ranger tbh

okay ignore the fact that they're confirmed scum.

lol i think it’s like 99-1 she is I just want to see if there’s any defence she can muster

???????????????????????

what’s wrong with trying to see both sides of the story? what if there’s another VT still hiding for some reason? idk

[ketchup777]

I think Light came into today knowing she was the 2nd largest wagon on Day 1 and Day 2 and that she was very likely to get voted today, and just tried to take Ranger out as well. I think. but no point rushing

[ketchup777]

VOTE: ranger

VOTE: Titus

E-1

I'll post properly tomorrow, but I'm happy enough w this lim

I’m going to be busy most of today, so can’t type out the details of the slip.

So for the next 26 - 30 hours, let me leave with this:

Why do we know there’s more than three Cops?

Why wasn’t it possible to have Copx3 + 7VT?
Or something similar?

What made it impossible to you?

Or more importantly, what made it impossible to

Titus

?

What made it not just suspect shenanigans? What confirmed there were?

ranger a lot of your ISO seems like "raising hypotheticals that all lead to titus"

ranger's catchup still feels nothing tonally like her town game in frienemies

@black because light suspected ranger since day 1 and voted titus. because ranger's solve was titus light and python. to me It just seems like they would try and resolve eachother. idk.

you pulled out a lot of good posts in under 5 minutes. you and black cooked this one up in the scum PT?

[ketchup777]

Should we not wait for ranger? Why so many votes

also kinda weird that python and drew just voted immediately.

you two also rushed to a light vote… like I agree with you but also shouldn’t you unvote?

Light is confirmed scum. Ranger is confirmed town. There is a difference

your and PC‘s posts were before Ranger had revealed she was a VT. How was it confirmed?

Did I vote light before rangers claim?

Yes, you revoted after already having voted Light in 2332

[ketchup777]

I have come to learn that I am a terrible day 1 player as town. And I'm not sure how to improve on that.

you’re nottt

[ketchup777]

such a win that everyone followed the cop plan tho (:

[ketchup777]

such a win that everyone followed the cop plan tho (:

Although Drew is still uncopped, I’d say we assign 2 or 3 of our finest to him tonight

[ketchup777]

let's just ignore ketchup he's either 4th scum or actually scum

classic, ignoring my question to instead insult me

[ketchup777]

Should we not wait for ranger? Why so many votes

also kinda weird that python and drew just voted immediately.

you two also rushed to a light vote… like I agree with you but also shouldn’t you unvote?

Light is confirmed scum. Ranger is confirmed town. There is a difference

your and PC‘s posts were before Ranger had revealed she was a VT. How was it confirmed?

Did I vote light before rangers claim?

Yes, you revoted after already having voted Light in 2332

Oh right but that was before Light's guilty. In that scenario there is usually not a run of votes. But when a guilty is done there is

Sure, I have sympathy as you were the first voter in the thread

[ketchup777]

let's just ignore ketchup he's either 4th scum or actually scum

classic, ignoring my question to instead insult me

no serious question that I saw from you.

how did you gather 4 anti-light points so quickly? If you’d indulge me I’d like to know the exact way you searched for these quotes. ISO from the top? ISO from the bottom? asap

[ketchup777]

let's just ignore ketchup he's either 4th scum or actually scum

classic, ignoring my question to instead insult me

no serious question that I saw from you.

how did you gather 4 anti-light points so quickly? If you’d indulge me I’d like to know the exact way you searched for these quotes. ISO from the top? ISO from the bottom? asap

you just ctrl f ranger lol

interesting, when i ctrl f it only finds words on the page we're currently on?

[ketchup777]

let's just ignore ketchup he's either 4th scum or actually scum

classic, ignoring my question to instead insult me

no serious question that I saw from you.

how did you gather 4 anti-light points so quickly? If you’d indulge me I’d like to know the exact way you searched for these quotes. ISO from the top? ISO from the bottom? asap

you just ctrl f ranger lol

interesting, when i ctrl f it only finds words on the page we're currently on?

you have to go to lights iso

aha ok.

Spoiler:

VOTE: ranger

VOTE: Titus

E-1

I'll post properly tomorrow, but I'm happy enough w this lim

I’m going to be busy most of today, so can’t type out the details of the slip.

So for the next 26 - 30 hours, let me leave with this:

Why do we know there’s more than three Cops?

Why wasn’t it possible to have Copx3 + 7VT?
Or something similar?

What made it impossible to you?

Or more importantly, what made it impossible to

Titus

?

What made it not just suspect shenanigans? What confirmed there were?

ranger a lot of your ISO seems like "raising hypotheticals that all lead to titus"

ranger's catchup still feels nothing tonally like her town game in frienemies

@black because light suspected ranger since day 1 and voted titus. because ranger's solve was titus light and python. to me It just seems like they would try and resolve eachother. idk.

why is the first post you quoted out of order with the others then?

[ketchup777]

let's just ignore ketchup he's either 4th scum or actually scum

classic, ignoring my question to instead insult me

no serious question that I saw from you.

how did you gather 4 anti-light points so quickly? If you’d indulge me I’d like to know the exact way you searched for these quotes. ISO from the top? ISO from the bottom? asap

you just ctrl f ranger lol

interesting, when i ctrl f it only finds words on the page we're currently on?

you have to go to lights iso

aha ok.

Spoiler:

VOTE: ranger

VOTE: Titus

E-1

I'll post properly tomorrow, but I'm happy enough w this lim

I’m going to be busy most of today, so can’t type out the details of the slip.

So for the next 26 - 30 hours, let me leave with this:

Why do we know there’s more than three Cops?

Why wasn’t it possible to have Copx3 + 7VT?
Or something similar?

What made it impossible to you?

Or more importantly, what made it impossible to

Titus

?

What made it not just suspect shenanigans? What confirmed there were?

ranger a lot of your ISO seems like "raising hypotheticals that all lead to titus"

ranger's catchup still feels nothing tonally like her town game in frienemies

@black because light suspected ranger since day 1 and voted titus. because ranger's solve was titus light and python. to me It just seems like they would try and resolve eachother. idk.

why is the first post you quoted out of order with the others then?

what is the point of answering this? What does it reveal to you and how does that matter to my alignment or rangers or lights?

You tell me. What's there to hide?

[ketchup777]

obvs I think that they are out of order because you and at least one other mafia buddy came together in the night to find anti Light posts, then you just went to the scum PT today, selected multiple quotes and job done

[ketchup777]

obvs I think that they are out of order because you and at least one other mafia buddy came together in the night to find anti Light posts, then you just went to the scum PT today, selected multiple quotes and job done

so I'm framing light?

to distance from her, yep. seems good

[ketchup777]

obvs I think that they are out of order because you and at least one other mafia buddy came together in the night to find anti Light posts, then you just went to the scum PT today, selected multiple quotes and job done

and who is my partner black you said? or hu tao since they voted? or ranger and enchant?

probably you/black/light

[ketchup777]

obvs I think that they are out of order because you and at least one other mafia buddy came together in the night to find anti Light posts, then you just went to the scum PT today, selected multiple quotes and job done

and who is my partner black you said? or hu tao since they voted? or ranger and enchant?

probably you/black/light

Why do you think Hu is town

HT is townvibes but not fully ruled out based on where she's been voting. nothing from her has struck me as particularly scummy tho. to take a recent example, 2400 feels town to me, but honestly I've just been getting town vibes the whole game.

I'm also wary I townread you unsuccessfully in our last game for having reads similar to mine so you might be maf again

[ketchup777]

obvs I think that they are out of order because you and at least one other mafia buddy came together in the night to find anti Light posts, then you just went to the scum PT today, selected multiple quotes and job done

and who is my partner black you said? or hu tao since they voted? or ranger and enchant?

probably you/black/light

secret leaked files of the scum PT today:

Light: gambit go brrrrrrr
Black: distancing time
PC: wahoooooooooooooo
PC: aah ketchup got me
PC: help me black I can't take it anymore

[ketchup777]

you two keep supporting each other it's really cute

I'm going to put my initial VCA thoughts into motion now. hopefully coming soon to a mafia thread near you

(drew+python could still be scum, however I think python at least I thought is town. but i'll see)

[ketchup777]

you basically ignore everything that has happened day 1 and day 2 and don't point to that as distancing posts on when I call light scum those days and use this small interaction where I vote light as for sure distancing. it's all just post hoc logic with conf bias.

my memory of exactly who voted for who day 1 and day 2 is hazy. but i'm about to look properly at them as I just said in the post above you

[ketchup777]

My hip gun vibe callout would be {light_ganski, Doctor Drew, Black}; I’ve no backing for it.

It may be {light_ganski, Black, usesPython}.

The way Doctor Drew acted both end of D1 and beginning of D2 seems genuinely town. It also seems strange to kill JacksonVirgo when JV and Drew are being buddy buddy.

It’s certainly possible for Drew to be scum (his D3 play has been terrible); it seems unlikely.

I still townread Enchant, and I am townreading ketchup777.

I don’t think ketchup777 is correct about the solve being {light_ganski, Black, Political Clout}, which would leave usesPython as scum with one of the two.

I do think Black is likely scum, in part specifically because the strength of her conviction behind opposing light_ganski. There’s also the question of if not her, then who?

However, a great many things are needed. A review of D1, D2, rereading events today, and considering if the kills were simply off the players' reads. I need to see Koba's stances and review JV's to see if their kills were thanks to getting too close to something, rather than rolehunting as previously assumed.

ranger not wanting to rush today is townie

(noone else will get towncred for this now tho (; )

[ketchup777]

My hip gun vibe callout would be {light_ganski, Doctor Drew, Black}; I’ve no backing for it.

It may be {light_ganski, Black, usesPython}.


I still townread Enchant, and I am townreading ketchup777.

I don’t think ketchup777 is correct about the solve being {light_ganski, Black, Political Clout}, which would leave usesPython as scum with one of the two.

what do you mean about Python as scum with one of the two?

[ketchup777]

{Enchant}
{ketchup777}
{Doctor Drew}
{Political Clout}
{Hu Tao}
{UsesPython}
{Black}
---
{Light_ganski}

Approximately where I’m at.

Political Clout is certainly possible scum, yet doesn’t feel like it.

Hu Tao is largely null, and if my solve is off, I'd put her as the replacement scum.

also if Ranger is scum she would be doing some major spewing here for someone who knows they're tomorrow's lim if Light is town. so Ranger probs town

[ketchup777]

(I also still don't understand my enchant no result considering enchant covering for ranger today, unless enchant is ascetic scum partnered with ranger)

why didn't you just just claim inno on enchant at the start of day 2 and blend in as a normal cop? hinting at being a modifier cop is riskyyy

[ketchup777]

{Enchant}
{ketchup777}
{Doctor Drew}
{Political Clout}
{Hu Tao}
{UsesPython}
{Black}
---
{Light_ganski}

Approximately where I’m at.

Political Clout is certainly possible scum, yet doesn’t feel like it.

Hu Tao is largely null, and if my solve is off, I'd put her as the replacement scum.

I guess you've known all along that Enchant might not be VT and previously might have wanted to pretend Enchant was top townread. Now there's nothing to hide, aren't you even a little bit concerned Enchant is maf?

[ketchup777]

Because if light was town, then died as "Disloyal cop", i would be dead instantly.

true I suppose if light got quickhammered while she was away bad things would happen

[ketchup777]

{Enchant}
{ketchup777}
{Doctor Drew}
{Political Clout}
{Hu Tao}
{UsesPython}
{Black}
---
{Light_ganski}

Approximately where I’m at.

Political Clout is certainly possible scum, yet doesn’t feel like it.

Hu Tao is largely null, and if my solve is off, I'd put her as the replacement scum.

It may actually be {light_ganski, Black, Hu Tao}, as both Hu Tao and Black were late to the copclaim fest on D2, and neither seemed like they were playing as a cop on D1 the way Drew and JV did.

Look at literally my first post day 2. It was the most obvious cop soft on PC

You’re referring to 1069?

[ketchup777]

{Enchant}
{ketchup777}
{Doctor Drew}
{Political Clout}
{Hu Tao}
{UsesPython}
{Black}
---
{Light_ganski}

Approximately where I’m at.

Political Clout is certainly possible scum, yet doesn’t feel like it.

Hu Tao is largely null, and if my solve is off, I'd put her as the replacement scum.

It may actually be {light_ganski, Black, Hu Tao}, as both Hu Tao and Black were late to the copclaim fest on D2, and neither seemed like they were playing as a cop on D1 the way Drew and JV did.

light+black are the common factor resurfacing in my pools as well

due to a bout of procrastination my VCA thoughts will be another couple hours tho soz

[ketchup777]

{Enchant}
{ketchup777}
{Doctor Drew}
{Political Clout}
{Hu Tao}
{UsesPython}
{Black}
---
{Light_ganski}

Approximately where I’m at.

Political Clout is certainly possible scum, yet doesn’t feel like it.

Hu Tao is largely null, and if my solve is off, I'd put her as the replacement scum.

It may actually be {light_ganski, Black, Hu Tao}, as both Hu Tao and Black were late to the copclaim fest on D2, and neither seemed like they were playing as a cop on D1 the way Drew and JV did.

I lied it was my 2nd post but still. Before people claimed cop

Man. I was about to come into today upset at koba. Because Lap's claim sounded like it was there to find miller's. But I was also going to say koba was probably town for it because of Lap's role. But now I'm shook. Also why would scum even kill the Miller claim.

Scum is probably somewhere on the wagon. I'd say I like PCs vote the best out of all. So he's prob town.

never mind didn’t see that, cooley

[ketchup777]

if Light is disloyal cop and we managed to make our two Disloyal cops the top 2 day 1 wagons that would be really funny but also a priori that’s so unlikely, it’s more likely we hit a scum who cced

and with no one CCing VT I think Ranger is in the clear


but time to do juicy analysis

[ketchup777]

56 kinda feels like a townie post

is overlooking an RVS vote by mistake alignment indicative?

Not really, but I'm gut townreading his tone and his eagerness to reevaluate

I'm not saying you're wrong, but this feels very premature

How? It's a gut read. I'm not locktowning him

This chain could be an extremely early triple distancing in Black / PC / Light

[ketchup777]

VOTE: ketchup

Interesting, even though I think light could be town so far I'm surprised you took the pressure off so quick

LG not responding to or acknowledging her wagon feels kinda bad

VOTE: LG

Okay i take back what I said

these posts seem quite honest and would be extremely creative if Black / Hu Tao were paired but I think they’re not both scum tbh

[ketchup777]

I do have a slightly tinfoil scum team of Black and JV right now

could you elaborate?

Light might be trying to prepare defenses to Light+Black pairing

[ketchup777]

Ok maybe ketchup is town

I can feel the reluctance to admit this emanating (maybe)

[ketchup777]

56 kinda feels like a townie post

is overlooking an RVS vote by mistake alignment indicative?

Not really, but I'm gut townreading his tone and his eagerness to reevaluate

I'm not saying you're wrong, but this feels very premature

Do scum ever make this kind of post? I think so. Trying to make people doubt their town reads.

56 kinda feels like a townie post

is overlooking an RVS vote by mistake alignment indicative?

Not really, but I'm gut townreading his tone and his eagerness to reevaluate

I'm not saying you're wrong, but this feels very premature

How? It's a gut read. I'm not locktowning him

I see your point then

this is the only slightly interesting thing that happened on page 4 LG pushed black for her read on me then backed off immediately wasn't ready for the smoke.

this might be an interesting post to look at from PC/Light/Black POV. Not sure what to make of it atm

[ketchup777]

Ok well maybe this is where I drop that I think lap/titus/ranger is my current running solve

pls tell me why

because I have thoughts

I don't wanna read tm into activity and I've only played w ranger once as far as I can remember but what she has posted seems surprisingly fluffy (comparing the game I played w her where she was town)

ik light is virtually confscum but I just had another thought; if Light was already having doubts about Ranger, why not cop Ranger night 1?
answer: because that wouldn’t work with her gambit plan (or she hadn’t devised that yet)

[ketchup777]

UNVOTE:

Because I have no idea what’s happened while I’ve been gone

I'm curious about the thought process behind this unvote

could be trying to push me back into voting Lap