Mini 2332: A Mid-scummer Nights Dream II | GG

[Aureal]

[Aureal]

Wow, I was gonna come RVS vote Gimli because I have good information that he's Kira, but apparently I need to figure out setup stuff instead?

[Aureal]

something towny

[Aureal]

I don't have much time to figure out how this is all working just now, but looking at the dream titles I agree with whoever said the car seat sounds protective. I'll try to get a better grip after work and maybe a nap.

[Aureal]

Wow Aureal is even more locktown than Python would've been if they were here. Which reminds me I miss playing with Python

Yeah, they'd have like three walls about how this all works up by now. Instead I'm gonna have to think about it.

[Aureal]

Wow, I was gonna come RVS vote Gimli because I have good information that he's Kira, but apparently I need to figure out setup stuff instead?

How is figuring setup stopping you from rvs voting

I didn't see a votecount so I expect that placing votes doesn't actually do anything this phase. So why go to more effort to use a pointless vote tag?

[Aureal]

Okay, after a nap and food I finally found the time and brainpower to scrutinize the setup and in trying to lay out how it works I figured out why my quick skimming earlier was making me so confused.

Bonus phases:

Moonrise (24 hours of thread being open):

6 Dream titles are revealed at start. Players (begin?) voting for 3 of them. I am confused about whether voting concludes during Moonrise or continues into the Day phase because rule 4 refers both to voting for an elimination (which we don't actually seem able to do right now) and saying voting is during the

day

, which indicates voting for dreams does not end here. But rule 5 goes on to talk about Bad Dreams discarding one of the top three voted dreams after 24 hours of Moonrise, which cannot happen if voting isn't finalized. I'm thinking it's the latter because that's more specific but it's making it hard to parse as written.

Twilight:

Occurs after the elimination vote, effects are unstated. I assume it's what is typically referred to as twilight with the thread guaranteed to remain unlocked for discussion for 6 hours, but since it says it occurs after the elimination is "posted" it implies that perhaps we actually get it after the player flip result?

So this is my conclusion on how I think it plays out.

Moonrise:

6 Dream titles are revealed at start.
Players get 24 hours to discuss, send votes for Dreams, and top 3 are selected.
Bad Dreams discard one of top 3.
Dreamer reveals one of the 2 remaining Dreams, then picks which of the 2 to use for the next Night. The selected Dream is revealed to all.

Day:

Regular dayplay*

Twilight:

6 hours of discussion post-flip

Night:

Regular nightplay*

*aside from any Dream-related effects

@mod: Can you clarify whether my conclusion is accurate?

[Aureal]

ActionDan probs town btw

He's certainly giving off the same contemptuous vibes as last time, eh?

His 229 is bugging me though, I'm trying to parse what's going on with that Ydrasse read and it feels weird.

[Aureal]

Anyway, @Prism: I think you are wrong to dismiss her point. I don't care what you think of my skill level, but I most likely wouldn't have posted 143 as scum unless I thought being extremely self-conscious would get me townread, which I don't think I would think in this game with this PL. And the fact that the post is self-conscious is if anything testimony to me being town, because I posted it DESPITE knowing it looked self-conscious in a scummy way.

I actually agree with this: I saw the dayvig comment and was baffled because 143 looked like a typical DE post to me, with a bit of extra brashness in declaring himself a townsperson that pinged me as something he'd more likely do as town.

[Aureal]

His 229 is bugging me though, I'm trying to parse what's going on with that Ydrasse read and it feels weird.

Uhhhhh I guess I can see why it's bugging you, but I think it's kind of a town moonlogic rather than a scum moonlogic? And I can see how a person who's scumreading me/Gimli/Kyoko would TR Ydra for it. But on second thought, actually that would presume that Ydra didn't post the "NO TOWNBLOCKS" as a joke. And I thought she did it as a joke. So maybe he's a bit reachy in his townread of her? Meh I'm just going to let AD post more, I think he's rather easy to sort.

Oh, I wasn't even thinking of the townbloc stuff, lol. It was the comment about Ydrasse's reaction to the slide reveal seeming like dumb town. Like, she was going "I want the slide, I want the slide!" and then the slide got revealed. Of course she's going to have a reaction, whether or not she's the one who did it. All it tells me is that if she revealed it, she doesn't want to be open about it at the moment.

...okay, I guess she probably wouldn't have been clamoring for it beforehand if she was intending on revealing it but not wanting it to be known she did, it's needlessly attention-getting.

Uh... yeah, still not sure how alignment comes into that, though.

[Aureal]

Thinking some about the Dreams now...

Forget 11, I just turned the dial to 12!

: At first I thought the idea that this is a revive was totally out of left field, but then I remembered the setup has that clause about not necessarily being out of the game when you die. So this actually seems plausible to me now, even though it seems OP because it would essentially make the NK target a conftown instead. So maybe scum would even no-kill to avoid it? Okay lol, maybe this isn't so plausible. Maybe it conveys some sort of unblockable modifier?

You know how Vi does what Vi does? Well...

: I'd have to go read up on who this is to have an opinion on what this could be, and there doesn't seem to be time to really do that. So I think I gotta defer to the people who do know anything about Vi as all I know is what's been said here about Tarelfsoundingname and some battery? And hope it's not actually talking about a Village Idiot, as that potential confusion is apparently is something that the wiki felt the need to point out...

Protest is effective, but why have we super glued ourselves to each other, exactly?

: Yeah, could be lovers (though thinking about how that would be assigned leads to a lot more questions...) so doesn't seem great.

I'm 30 years old, why do I still need a car seat?

Still think it sounds like a protective thing.

These sheeple have.. fur? And horns? Wait these are literally sheep people

: Uh... this sounds kind of dangerous. Sheep with fur and horns? Are they wolf-sheep?

So I think I'm probably going with the dial, Vi, and car seat. The slide isn't strictly bad- as Klick points out, we could play around it (and envisioning the chaos that could ensue if people don't play as agreed is tempting me ) but it isn't exactly helpful either. These three feel like they have better potential to actually be helpful rather than harmful. Picking the neutralish known option wouldn't be a bad idea if we don't know what we're getting elsewhere and it feels like it might be bad; without further info I think I might take it over the superglue or sheeple if those were the options.

[Aureal]

Hu Tao - hu taoing.

I wanted to give you a bunch of townpoints for this mindmeld, but I see you use the same joke later on for other people too so only modest townpoints for it.

Aureal - I can see the scumreads, but idk. playing a little different but not trying to appear towny like death note, could be town and still getting into the game.

Yeah, uh, thanks for being the only one to notice that I haven't really gotten into things yet? I tend to focus on mech first when it feels applicable and we are literally in a phase that is

about mech

and has a short deadline; so shockingly with what little time I've had to pay attention to things I've focused primarily on getting that mech stuff sorted out. I read most of this stuff in a bit of a sleepy haze after work last night because I saw there was a bunch of pages and couldn't resist looking, I got a few small reads out of it but not really anything that felt pressing to comment upon especially given that the conversation had largely shifted away by the time I would have been trying to respond. And a bunch of mech-oriented stuff just passed me by because I hadn't gotten a grip on how that all was working yet. And the hydras are making it extra-hard to even keep track of who's doing what (which I am notably bad at early in the game, I'm not even sure I'm at the point where I could recite the entire playerlist from memory yet despite having the benefit of a lot of overlap with my last game) as I have little experience with most of those players and they're largely not even signing their posts. >_<

BTW I don't think I was ever really trying to 'appear towny' in Death Note, I just did stuff and was kind of surprised that I started getting townreads for it early. I really think that Adorable/HPE stuff was weird nonsense and would pick on it as town- if I had any agenda seeping in there it was trying to make people who were not you look bad, not to make myself look towny.

You seem to think I normally play in a pretty towny fashion but I assure you, that is not the norm, I'm typically a very null read in general. There's decent chance I get miseliminated on day one when my style rubs people the wrong way, but once I get past that I basically always see ELO because I'm not towny enough to nightkill (Black's the only one who's ever shot me for being towny ) or scummy enough to vote out. I've thought about our prior games and I can believe that you would think that though, as I did fluke into being unusually townread our first game because I replaced in and there was an argument going on which I had a strong opinion about that I could push; and you replaced into the other one so I think you probably don't really remember the stuff before that point where I was looking likely to be a D1 miselimination early on until you and Klick townread me and we turned it into a scumAndante flip instead. Also, I'd say my playstyle has shifted to be looser and less argumentative in general since those games, which were pretty early on in my return to play (and those games factored into my shift as I was realizing there that what I was doing just kept me getting into TvT arguments).

I think you're likely to be town here, both from how you've approached this read and what I'm seeing in later pages of your frustration over the slide thing. I'm wary of the others scumreading me: Klick could be pulling reads out of a bag for all I can tell at this point, and... one of those S-hydras (seriously whyyyyyyy does there have to be two confusing hydras that also start with S) also joined in which felt like opportunistic shade. And I don't even want to think about DE and whatever he's doing right now, writing this all out actually helped me calm down some and now that's fraying again at that thought.

[Aureal]

Unless you mean my vote on you which like

Sorry, but it's not even a real vote?

*deep breaths*

Okay, so if it's not a real vote

what do you possibly hope to gain

with this course of action? Other than tipping me into frustration for reasons I thought would be obvious to you by now, but once again I underestimate your capacity to just latch onto something and do it with no concern for the consequences. Here you are, knowing that I hate being expected to somehow have much in the way of reads I can explain early in the game; and not only have you not even mentioned it but are actively encouraging the dynamic of scumreading me for it. If you were anyone else I'd be calling you scum opportunistically forgetting what you know about me; but sadly I think this is well within your townrange. >_<

[Aureal]

is dragon known to be this entitled. is this town behavior

Yes

I can't say I have a good track record reading him, but vibewise I think entitlement may be a trait he shows better as town, and he may have a little more shame as scum.

[Aureal]

Like, I've been skeptical of a whole hell of a lot of things Dragon has said this game, they aren't at all how I'd do things and I can't even figure where he's coming from with them. I've kinda accepted that's often how it goes with him. But the way he's defending them is so brazen it feels like town.

[Aureal]

Unless you mean my vote on you which like

Sorry, but it's not even a real vote?

*deep breaths*

Okay, so if it's not a real vote

what do you possibly hope to gain

with this course of action? Other than tipping me into frustration for reasons I thought would be obvious to you by now, but once again I underestimate your capacity to just latch onto something and do it with no concern for the consequences. Here you are, knowing that I hate being expected to somehow have much in the way of reads I can explain early in the game; and not only have you not even mentioned it but are actively encouraging the dynamic of scumreading me for it. If you were anyone else I'd be calling you scum opportunistically forgetting what you know about me; but sadly I think this is well within your townrange. >_<

So

In the nicest way possible

I am not latching onto anything. You are either misunderstanding or misrepresenting the situation by saying that I am "opportunistically forgetting" about you, because I am not scumreading you, nor am I trying to push you. I have you as null town. It's in my readlist that came

after

the meaningless vote. That vote is there solely and only as a gesture of friendship to Klick, who is scumreading you and who I think has super bad reads (I also said that!). So you should realize that I am in no way repeating ast mistakes here, I am just enjoying the fact that this phase is kidna meaningless votes-wise and also trying to get on Klick's good side.

I didn't say you were opportunistically forgetting, I said that's how I'd expect to feel if you were someone else.

I still can't even figure what you're expecting to accomplish but I guess this little exchange has helped solidify my read on you so that's something at least. So I'll just leave it at that and do something else for a while. Maybe I can actually get a new power in Deathloop.

[Aureal]

VOTE: Ydrasse

[Aureal]

I put an Unofficial Vote Count together since we're not getting one until we can't actually talk anymore

ActionDan (2): Catgirl Chipotle, Sunflower
Hu Tao (2): Kyoko Kirigiri, Gimli
Prism (2): Klick, DragonEater70
Gimli (2): Hu Tao, Von Payne
Sunflower (1): Silver Ravens
Ydrasse (1): Aureal
No Elimination (1): Prism

Not Voting (2): ActionDan, Ydrasse


So this phase really freaking sucks. What the hell was wrong with Mafia in 2013 if this is what was happening?! I'm an efficiency micromanager so I feel like I need to put every single thing I've ever thought or could think all together in one post because they're a limited resource, which takes a lot of time and effort. But also I feel like I need to freaking hurry up and do it because I don't even have control over how fast that resource goes away, it's up to you hyperposting yahoos! (speaking of, seriously why was I and my 16 posts deemed by someone with 50 posts to be in the same category as Black[50 posts], Dragon, and Jupiter [120 posts EACH]??? You don't need to answer that now as this really isn't the time for back and forths but expect to have some words about that next phase!)

I'd like to suggest that if we again get a Dream flipped like the slide was, we consider just piling our votes into that assuming it's not something obviously bad of course. That would have been sooooo much better than this.

Anyway, I haven't gone back and re-read or browsed ISOs or anything yet so there's a bunch of people I don't have a good grasp of still.

I'm not going to vote Gimli or DE here, I've already explained those reads.

I don't want to vote Von Payne either as I feel like I have a good chance to read them more confidently over time and I'm already leaning a town on Black for vibes at this point. I can totally understand her argument that Dragon's early townread was silly and unwarranted; in another world I could see myself making that argument too, but in this one I mostly just shrug and go cry in the corner because Dragon is doing weird things I don't understand again and it's better for my sanity to not pick too much at them. Also it feels like a weird choice for scumBlack to start off by aggressively going after Dragon, whom she would expect to become a prominent voice in the game. She'd probably just opt to let townDragon town it up and nightkill him if his reads are a threat rather than draw all the attention trying to keep him from being a town leader; and if they were S/S that's even less likely, she wouldn't want to burn their credibility from the start.

Prism has mostly just seemed like a reasonable poster whom I have not been pinged by one way or another until just now, or read deeply into to really understand what she's arguing. I did like her snap-back at the big Sunflower post because I too, would be upset and think it's totally wrongheaded if I played a marathon game and someone dared compare that totally different beast to a normal speed game like this. So I don't really want to vote her either today.

Hu Tao I would've been fine voting out today, per my usual strategy of wanting to vote Hu Tao D1 in absence of a good scumread because I can't read her except by catching her in a slip or narrowing the PoE in late game. However, her reaction coming into this phase made me hesitate, because I was pretty freaking demoralized seeing how this phase was going to play out, so I actually kinda vibe with wanting out. Her stuff afterward undermines that vibe though, like she could be backtracking and putting out some actual thoughts and reads because she voted herself hoping for a pass but instead it backfired and she shot to E-1 so she had to change tactics. So overall... meh I'd probably still vote her if need be but the fact that she went to E-1 easily also makes me hesitate.

I still don't know what Klick is doing. Don't really want to vote there now because voting Klick D1 feels bad. Don't think it's going to happen so probably I have time to try harder to figure out what he's doing.

Catgirl I have like no thoughts on, other than the insistence on the slide being fine being a little towny. I'm assuming Maria is doing most of the posting because it doesn't look like Alisae's and I know nothing at all about Maria.

Sunflower pretty much the same, apart from what I said about the comparison to a marathon game being wrongheaded. Don't think that's AI though. There's just tooooo much for me to process easily, I'll need to dig into ISOs and re-reads.

Silver Ravens again, these freaking hydras are basically just going straight through my brain unprocessed so far. I have no idea who's even talking in this one, it's that bad. This was the one that had the opportunistic drive-by scumread so I feel a little sus of them.

Ydrasse hasn't given a single read and showed up just to say she'd eventually do stuff but not now and other people could feel free to take her posts I was considering voting her to pressure her to do something and that post turned it into me actually voting her to pressure her to do something.

I'm in a bit of a quandary with ActionDan because his contemptuous vibes feel similar to past games where he was town, but he's also given me the scummiest ping of anyone with that bizarre Ydrasse townread. I expect him to do more.

Kyoko I still want some more from. Her long post this phase looks good and I felt like I agreed with a lot of it on first glance but when I read it again it felt kind of waffly and not going much of anywhere except scumreading Hu Tao and ActionDan, which are not exactly hard positions to have right now. I totally sympathize with spending hours writing up all this though, maybe I should've put this off even longer. >_<

Also...

I agree that Aureal and Hu need to do more(heyo, Drew calling the kettle Black), I could get a read on them better the more they post......

Oh well I'll make sure to not post anymore for a while, then! See how it feels for a change!

srsly I don't know how much of this I can do, I was kinda hoping that Hu flashwagon would go through anyway just so we could be done with this misery asap >_<

[Aureal]

It's always wonderful being scumread because you literally don't have the ability to participate at any given moment and take some time to do things when you have the chance. Like, I don't expect to get townread for taking the time and parsing how the setup rules were messed up and getting the mods to fix it, but I feel like I'm getting scumread for it, and that feels like shit. Proofreading unclear text is in my nature. Oh, and I guess because I made the same snarky joke that I usually make when someone asks me to say something. Sigh. I am full of the snark, you've just gotta learn to live with it, I'm afraid.

Also I thought it was obvious why I voted Ydrasse so I don't know why Dragon is confused?? My patience with him is very low, seeing how Dragon announced a list of people he wanted to wagon to get reads on and Ydrasse was one and he now cannot comprehend wanting to wagon her to get a read. Obviously it doesn't do anything for me to vote her alone but I can't exactly make anyone else join, can I?? I might've gone for Dan there but I expected him to post more of his own volition, as this post restriction doesn't seem like it should even really matter to him given his long catch-up posting style.

My read on Klick is taking a dip, it's a little hard to believe he has such a bad read, and definitely hypocritical seeing as he claims to be constricted in his play by the post restriction but makes no allowance for it affecting others like me. I thought he might have been looking for reactions when he was 'voting' me earlier; and I probably didn't help my case by getting tilted by Dragon acting obnoxiously similar to a previous game which I have been reminded of too much recently in trying to maintain my blacklist, and have

very recently

remarked upon to Dragon about how I still don't like having to think about it. But Klick coming after me again now feels opportunistic seeing as I basically have no defenders.

I challenge you to compare my readlist to the last time I did a serious readlist where I try to give all my thoughts on everyone. Yeah, I don't know when that is either, might even be never. Actually it probably is never because I never would've had the post restriction pressure of knowing I need to get

everything

included and be as informative as possible. There's a reason I hardly ever do readlists! Well, a reason beyond PTSD from the first time I tried and it was such a resounding success that I got voted out halfway through day 1 so fast I couldn't even claim.

That probably illustrates the other point, which is that I suck at readlists. It's not how I think about the game, it's not how I interact with the game, especially right at the start. I pounce on things that seem odd in interactions, then hoard my reads and scatter them as they seem relevant, slowly analyzing it all. (Keyword: slowly!) This game's setup is massively screwing with that; I went from Figuring Out the Screwy Setup mode, to Tilted mode; to Haha You're Not Allowed to Post mode. And so I did what I could, I consolidated my thoughts even though it goes against everything normal in how I play. I hated it. I don't do reads like "ooooh that person used the word 'probably' too much so they're scum" so I don't typically have much to work with early game. I'm a late-game solver, not a "point at person right away and announce their alignment" solver. On day one I'm primarily trying to generate content that will hopefully be useful in solving later, not expecting to nail it with my often-mushy reads.

Gimli is locktown now BTW, thinking that the Catgirls nonsensically telling me not to post is a PT slip. Well unless he's scum together with them and that's a ploy they're working together to get me, and then he can back off his scumread of them because I flipped town so the case was invalid but... nah. Just wish he wasn't scumreading me, it's depressing being scumread by your townread.

If Klick is scum here, it means most likely one of Hu Tao or Dan is and he's trying to push things away from both as cover. I doubt

both

Hu and Dan are scum together and they both just decided to play openly antitown here. Some chance that neither is scum though and Klick's just taking the chance to push what looks like a pretty viable wagon while I'm in my vulnerable day one form, expecting that after my miselimination tomorrow people will be ready to go back to them because they've been so antitown. Now that Gimli has townslipped with his theory, it makes me think Catgirl could be partnered with Klick, who seems to have easily latched onto it, trying to flip me first of course so the theory gets disproven. Catgirls did sort of come out of nowhere to amp up the pressure on me just now after all, it could easily be coordinated.

And I'd say Kyoko is not partnered with Klick if Hu Tao is scum with him. That's the other thing going on here that this seems like a reaction to- Kyoko's case on Hu. It's only

after

that where Klick started actively defending Hu. He's notably avoided voting either her or Dan. That makes me think Hu is the likelier scum of the two. Prism would also not be partnered with Klick/Hu, as the other counterwagon Klick's been trying to push.

[Aureal]

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Aureal]

Another unofficial vote count:

Hu Tao (6): Kyoko Kirigiri, Von Payne, Catgirl Chipotle, Aureal, DragonEater70, Hu Yao
Aureal (2): Klick, Gimli
Gimli (1): Sunflower
Sunflower (1): Silver Ravens
Silver Ravens (1): Prism

Not Voting (1): Ydrasse

-----

but also I want to push through the aureal flip now because I'm much more confident that aureal is scum in relation with hu tao. klick and DE are two townies who I think can read aureal very well, and we've all seen no reason to townread her yet - a player who is a locktownread on page 3 in most games - so that's where the flip goes. hu tao, in comparison, is someone that everyone that knows her is saying this is totally a possible route for town!hu tao to make. so we're not going there.

Look Gimli, calling me normally a page 3 locktownread is such a terrible take that just for you I compiled a list of almost all of my recent town games here and assessed how I was read by people in them. I'm never a page 3 townread,

ever

(not even just limiting it to your own opinion). Do you seriously think I was lying when I said I'm typically floating around null and regularly have to fight to try to not get voted out?

Newbie 2108: got a bit of D1 suspicion, pushed as counter-wagon to scum D2, would likely have been voted in ELO if I hadn't voted first
Micro 1068: like I said, I made a readlist to try to generate content in a slow game, promptly got booted for it
N2110: the aforementioned game where I managed to get a lot of townreads quickly upon replacing in, but still got miseliminated D3 since I'd been townreading you and was one of the two not mechanically cleared players
Micro 1070: literally sitting at E-2 in every single VC until after you replace in
N2111 :mystical unicorn game where I was townread by everyone by the end of D1 but hardly by "page 3", also Black was scum and that has some sort of knock-on effect of making me look townier
N2114: miseliminated D1
Micro 1072: miseliminated D1 (on the same day as the previous game! that was really bad week for me -_-)
Mini 2295: barely survived D2 since I was off the hasty D1 scumflip and was pushed again the next day until petapan replacing in got LLD to reconsider and we got scum who'd been pushing me instead, and yet still I got some paranoia suspicion even afterwards
Micro 1073: replaced in and was slow enough to act in voting my scumread that I started getting run up at the end of the next day by townies who actually wanted to vote scumRanger with me but got tired of waiting, but it's okay because Aisa the Martyr fixed everything (she's the only one who thought I was obvtown and she was still second-guessing herself in the Martyr PT, it was funny XD)
Team Mafia: "Gimli wants me to reiterate Aristeia/Korina T/T and Aureal scum"
Open 878: fought like hell D3 and barely managed to avoid being counterwagoned instead of scum (I wasn't so obvtown to Aisa this time but she made the right call in the end)
N2122: replaced into Shea's spot so I didn't have to do much to establish myself, was mostly read as null/town the rest of the game and managed to actually get to decide the ELO for once after turning the D2 flip onto scum
Mini 2308: focused on mech early and was largely ignored then just kinda sank into nothingness as other games and the setup and being scumread by my townreads sapped my morale, and got quickhammered in "surprise, it's actually ELO"
Veiled Committe: other game, miseliminated D1, not going into it
Open 880: blew off playing D1, got wagoned for it, whined and made them back off for a bit, got wagoned again at deadline and saved myself from getting hammered by 2 minutes with my elaborate fakeclaim strategy that I'd spent the day devising instead of having reads
Weird Dreams: was literally a mason with Rat and Alianna and even though they were obvtown to everyone they couldn't get enough support to get people to vote me into the Nightmare with them, and was actually the weak counterwagon at EOD1; oh and I got shot N2 because Ircher thought I was their traitor since I'd been siding with scumKyoko's push on Ranger
Micro 1079: STD made a meme expressing his suspicion of my suspicion of him, also I got voted by Flavor Leaf in ELO without me even really getting to participate in ELO
Open 882: got a scumread slot into a better position upon replacing in and caught onto scumDrew but T-Bone turned on me in ELO and voted me instead
Open 885: Black is scum again here so it's another magical unicorn game where I'm mostly townread (I'm sure it has nothing to do with how I was using lazy meta to townread her! ) though Snivy and Alianna got sus of me D2
Open 890: another game I started really lazily then had momentum go towards me a day before D1 deadline though on the last day I did manage to be the consensus townread when we just needed one, town just had a lot of lucky breaks here
Mini Theme 2315: played as a goose, it was great until I PoEed the last two scum down to HPE and Hu Tao but Hu managed to wriggle her way out of ELO while I was just starting to actually explain anything
Micro Theme 1093: well this was a game that technically existed, lol, there was no real pushes D1 then we locked right onto scum the next 2 days
Open 892: was one of tied D1 wagons and couldn't recover from it the next day due to the nomination mechanic only allowing 3 players to be voted on
Open 900: got suspicion from a couple of townies D1 but obvtowned as much as I can by putting my foot down and insisting we yeet scumDrew, then got paranoia voted in ELO anyway without me even posting
Mafia Reunion: was a pretty mixed bag, Dan and Titus really scumread me and the traitors both were gunning for me even though I was townreading their cult leaders
Open 903: barely present this game, the IC started up a wagon on me

(Hmm I may like talking about myself too much )

Catgirl's response is to laugh my posting off, and Aureal's is to try to discredit while insinuating I'm scum for... reading her incorrectly?

In part, yes. Maybe I have you too much on a pedestal after what you did in the micro but it feels really bad for you to be so wrong on me here. And you're just flat-out ignoring my argument about the gamestate giving you the opportunity to push me here, so that doesn't help my opinion of your alignment. If you can supposedly read me so well and you're town, you ought to know that coming down on me like a ton of bricks without letting me get a chance to do things in my own time is counterproductive and makes things worse for us all (not to mention just plain frustrating me). There's even more examples I can cite from the games above if my descriptions don't give enough clues about how I react to being pushed for bad reasons and how well that tends to works out.

I think Aureal's main focus is on providing reasons not to eliminate her (she hasn't hit her 'power spike' - neither have I! It doesn't mean anything about my alignment) and to look elsewhere ('here's all these theories about what might be happening - please pick one of them').

Congratulations, you've figured out that I don't want to be miseliminated! This should not come as a surprise to anyone! Yes, I'm bloody well trying to do what I can to convince people not to do it and go for possible scum instead! You're making it sound like a bad thing! I have to start somewhere- so what exactly is it do

you

supposedly think that I

should

be doing here then, if not theorizing and trying to make reads with what I've got? I don't normally do much of this until we have several flips to work with but this game is totally messed up like that and I have to almost play backwards and you're using that to blame me for having messy reads that I typically struggle to form this early because the doors are so wide open to so many possibilities that it's not worth bothering. You're trying to make me regret spending hours thinking and writing and trying to fight my way into this game and not just blowing things off like Ydrasse and Hu. I like this playerlist, and I want to actually PLAY with it! I

want

to have conversations like this but this posting restriction does not allow for basically any such thing; we'll be out of posts in no time if people just start asking each other questions so I've tried to refrain from doing that. If you're legitimately trying to push me then you do not understand how hard of a restriction this is for me: I probably have some OCD tendencies about efficiency so posts being a draining resource

really

hurts me. I'm one of those people who plays video games and hoards all of the good items instead of using them, and logs into the MMO every day for the daily reward even though I have so much of it there's barely anything I can do with it anymore, and doesn't go 1.5 miles to the store just to get a couple of things unless I can plan it into my route while doing something else. This HURTS. We totally skipped the fun part of the game- I don't

want

to spend even more hours going through ISOs and re-reads on frigging DAY ONE with no info but that's what I'm going to have to do here I guess.

[Aureal]

THANK YOU GIMLI

YOU ARE A HERO

[Aureal]

So much for my hopes of her having tried to self-hammer to avoid spew but missed because of all the doubled-up votes on her though, oh well

[Aureal]

give town more time

Yes, give us more time! But not the scum!

[Aureal]

Yeah that was interesting how momentum started shifting there. I'll have to actually read Sunflower, I've been kinda putting that off as long as I can because I know Jupiter's hyperposting is gonna make me twitchy

Also I realized I was confused about which of them was even posting for a while because I thought "sun is made of fire oh lol I get it" and didn't manage to check which icon they had actually assigned themselves. Hydras WHY YOU DO THIS

Oh that reminds me, I can turn my sig back on now x.x

[Aureal]

CW to hu tao is all townies I think

I think one of the scum has to be sunflower now

Hmm, looking at the wagon comp I feel like Catgirl is the most likely scum on Hu, I think it's likely all of us who got on after are town. I'm... not sure of Kyoko yet, it feels kinda bold for scum to so strongly push a town wagon but she'd make sense partnered with Dan and trying to push away from that, or Prism maybe. Von Payne is not quite there in the green block with us yet, I was getting a bit of weird vibes from Drew and his talk about wanting more interaction, like he was trying to hint maybe he didn't even realize there was a post restriction? Like I can almost believe he wouldn't, even in a hydra where his partner should definitely be talking about it with him, because I recently did hydra with him and he uh maybe didn't pay that much attention to me at times

I dunno about the cw and their towniness, I really need more from 2 of them and need to look closer at Ravens.

Pedit: oh wow people are posting a lot, I'm so slow on phone x.x

[Aureal]

if I die tonight I suggest flipping sunflower first

i litrrally townread you, what?????

Ignoring Gimli is +EV dw

whats ev

Estimated Value

ok sorry i'm dumb but whay does this mean in context, does it make me more valuable to ignore gimli?

Yes they've openly changed their reads all game etc. Trying to debate this on twilight before death? Not worth

Surely you don't think changing reads in itself is scummy? What reads are you talking about here and what's the scum motivation you see in changing them?

[Aureal]

I want to know which head of Sunflower voted me.

Why ask this now when it happened like two days ago?

[Aureal]

i'm deepwolf

I'm jealous

[Aureal]

I'm not gonna lie I haven't read any of Aureal's posts

They were big and I did a lot of skimming over the weekend. I've been too busy this week to look at certain people and posts more closely

I have time to check her ISO real quick though

~B

Aureal hates it when I find out she is town lol

Stop ignoring me in our chat and I will explain

-Drew

It's funny because when I was going through all those town games looking at a bunch of wagons on me, I was reminded just how many of them had the name Doctor Drew on them...

Maybe someday I'll accept that you just like to have unjustifiable confidence in reading me, just like I try to accept that Dragon often does completely illogical things, but it is not this day

[Aureal]

time to white knight

i think that it's dangerous to play like gimli's playing right now as a wolf even if it's not particularly "good" town play because boxing yourself in can be a hard thing to get out of. it's a bit shallow at times and more vibes and confidence than maybe deserved but i struggle to see the wolf that does this. i will also hedge on THIS opinion and say i could be wrong but i don't feel like there's malice.

Are you talking about literally what Gimli is doing in the moment, adding people to his towncore and considering what that means for his poe?

[Aureal]

I want to know which head of Sunflower voted me.

Why ask this now when it happened like two days ago?

I knew it was fire. I wanted confirmation and the ability to dialogue. It would have made it in my larger post had I the time to make it.

Oh, that vote was after you reacted to the big post, my memory had the timing messed up and thought you posted after you were voted. Hmmm

[Aureal]

I'm amazed how many hours fireisred managed to metadive me and still get the wrong conclusion

spending three real life days being tunneled without answering was so annoying

Yeah, I was reading that thinking that fire's effort was towny but so very wrong. I wish people would just listen to me when I point out townslips and not keep arguing about them.

[Aureal]

i feel like we were forced to watch extended scum theatre for like a week

I can't say I never had any such thoughts at first.

Watching how it played out made me feel better about both of them, though. I guess having everything else blocked away made it easier to focus on what fire was saying than when everyone was talking and I could see the effort being made to make a read on Gimli, much as I disagreed with it. And Black was very much giving me the townBlack vibes; the post where she worried that maybe someone would shoot me because of what she said was so ridiculous, just like when I redirected the NK to myself in Boon's game after clearly crumbing that I was targeting her and she still was like "they could've just targeted Aureal" as if anyone would ever have NKed me.

[Aureal]

Thread lock ate my post as I tried to post it.

prism was townreading catgirl for disagreeing on mechanics which is a horrible reason to townread catgirl or anyone for that matter

I don't know about Catgirl specifically, but I think it's a fine reason in general and was somewhat agreeing with Prism there.

prism's early tunnel on DE was artificial and very poor, if she is a good and seasoned player none of that happens. also the read on hu tao was so perfect that feels exactly like TMI.

I'm sure I've seen "good and seasoned" players tunnel on DE early though. Sometimes they're even right! The Hu Tao read feeling like TMI I can see though.

[Aureal]

It’s actually criminal what drew got left alive with the role he has
Actually crazy

Why's that? Apart from making the slot look much more likely town?

[Aureal]

Before anything let's try to look for who DE hid behind shall we? If klick that would suck. I'm going to iso now.

I'm pretty sure it was just Klick, yes. I've looked at Dragon's ISO and he clearly was getting skeptical of Klick but still wanting to townread him.

Virtually none, haven't gone indepth on Aureal. Klick is unimpressive this game, virtually every read I've disagreed with.

It's really weird because I agree with you about disagreeing about Klick's every read. I have no fucking clue why he's town reading me all of a sudden.

There's a world where Prism is town and Klick is scum huh

Like
His scumread of me was bad
But his townread of me is even worse??? He's townreading me for extremely stupid reasons, and it's possible he's just scum and decided to townread me because I'm a vocal voice this game and he knows doing it will get him TR'd by Gimli.

Damn am I going to have to tryhard this game

That's so sad

It's gonna be funny if Prism ends up being a townread of mine

But also kinda scary because I would have no idea in that scenario where to look for scum

So it looks like his gut and his head were disagreeing and he impulsively decided to target Klick so he could feel good about Klick being town again. Maybe he was thinking of targeting me earlier and that's why he said what he said, or maybe he wasn't even thinking about the implication at all, but

I

know he didn't end up doing that. After what he did in Death Note it should be clear that Dragon does not think through and carefully plan what he's doing to avoid egregious mistakes like this.

[Aureal]

@aureal: what did dragon do in death note? I think I forgot

I was talking about the whole thing where he basically outted the detective by not paying attention to what he was doing, which I explained after the game was why I targeted his slot to investigate, which then confused everyone into clearing you.

For those not in the game, the detective was the town flagbearer: when they die, town has one more day to catch the scum flagbearer or they lose. Dan was the assistant, who knew the detective's identity and tried to let him know by crumbing at him. After Dan got pressured and claimed to be PR, Dragon asked Dan if he had crumbed (a horrible thing to ask rather than just look for himself given that Dan had actually crumbed the IDENTITY of the detective in a not-so-subtle way). Dan shot him down, and Dragon didn't pay attention to that as a warning sign at all. He didn't take the hint that there was indeed crumbing, and proceeded to lead a flashwagon on the detective's slot with just a few hours to deadline, forcing Dan to essentially out the detective's identity plainly to avoid him actually getting voting out. It was an easily avoidable disaster for town, because Dragon ran with his gut instead of paying attention to details.

[Aureal]

669 is less fine. Gimli getting lock town status is quite premature. A big undeserved jump from a mild townread previously. Needs expansion.

I explained this at the time. Gimli came up with a wild theory about Catgirls and I being scum together because Catgirls made a nonsensical comment including me with the hyperposters when I was actually a low poster. Gimli thought "oh maybe Aureal is actually posting a lot in the scum PT and so Catgirls has a warped sense of how much Aureal has posted and slipped in the game thread when talking about her posting habits!" Thinking that someone has made a PT slip like that is a very towny thought process, because scum would have to be highly creative to think in a way that enables them to envision town using the scum PT, and I've used it to correctly locktown people before. And the games were lost in the end because people wouldn't listen to me about the read. x.x

That Chipotle accusation comes in a bit fast. Based off 3rd on wagon? Despite being on the CW it does not feel to me like normal wagon analysis applies here as Hu was largely a consensus read aside from Klick or Prism signing on.

The wagon placement had nothing to do with the accusation, no. I was just townreading most of the other slots more, and Catgirls has mostly just been a big question mark to me. (Side note: was I wrong about who was posting there? Does everyone else know which of them is posting? )

[Aureal]

everybody knew who the detective was, aureal. DE didn't misplay anywhere near as badly as you're suggesting here and it feels like you're just throwing a narrative to try escaping the implications of his death

You mean

after

Dan told them not to wagon him? Four townies voted the detective in quick succession there, and Klick even made it clear the next day that he still hadn't figured out who the detective was in spite of all that.

You can say it's a narrative all you like, I don't blame you for it. I'm just frustrated with Dragon here and I can't even really talk to

him

about it now. You're just gonna have to see my flip to accept my reasoning on what happened, I expect, which is disappointing but I'll try to do what I can in the meanwhile.

[Aureal]

Anyway, I think it could be probable if Aureal isn't widely known to hyperpost. I personally don't know because I don't think I ever played with Aureal before, but the posts that pinged me way back then didn't seem to give me vibes that Aureal is a hyperposter.
I think it's maybe something to keep in mind of, but I don't think it's a make-or-break theory or anything.
I'll rate it 7/10.

Oh cool, I can finally tell which one of you is writing a post because I

have

played with Dunnstral a bit. Unless those games were just so unmemorable that he's forgotten them. x.x

No, I'm not a hyper poster- I was actually concerned at the start that I'd fall behind on this game because I knew so many people in it are hyperposters. I typically post drop-in style, commenting on whatever catches my interest. I mostly prefer to check in here and there to do this, often in moments I can take a peek while working; not sit at the computer in my time off work spending hours responding to things and writing walls like game has mostly forced me to do so far. I have no idea why Catgirls said what they did about me, and I'm pretty sure I mentioned as much earlier (as did DE).

[Aureal]

Aureal and Gimli are so SvS.

Their interactions during twilight are the most SvS thing ever lmao. They just staged a conversation and agreed to circlejerk each other there.

Why would Gimli help push a wagon onto me, an obviously vulnerable slot, only to draw attention by turning the read around in twilight after hammering a different wagon if he was my scum partner? It's pretty shameless play for scum. Do you think he wouldn't have realized how vulnerable I was and he could end up actually bussing his partner?

[Aureal]

My point about the NK is more precise. It's not that I think it was bad. I think Sunflower is unlikely to favor that kill. fireisredsir's perspective is that a higher priority is nightkilling people you can't eliminate, not people with good reads. Klick was very votable and unlikely to overwhelmingly prove himself town on a dime, making him a low-priority kill.

I am well-known to have this viewpoint. I don't think this is as well-known for fire.

I don't know how I feel about these deep meta reads. I thought fire was relatively new here so it's kind of weird to me that you two are interacting as if you've been playing together for a decade or something. I was getting weird pings from it earlier when you were pushing on fire's allegedly bad read of you, and it's weird how you're turning it around again. All based on meta that the rest of us probably can't hope to comprehend. I thought for a bit that you two were distancing, then realized I'd made a mistake in my timeline of when your votes happened, but I'm revisiting that read now.

[Aureal]

i don't really find empty posting into the void without being able to engage with people's responses to be very useful. i am kind of surprised that you think that i would

Yeah. This. This is exactly how I felt about the post restriction.

[Aureal]

prism has modded two games where i was scum (and seen or been in others) and i talk a lot about my thought processes in scum pts, and she tends to follow along with such things closely

im also relatively familiar with the way that she likes to approach games although im not really that confident im able to read her with accuracy. i don't think her expectations for how i should be processing her are unreasonable or inaccurate, just the interpretation of what i was doing was off and assumed an invisible thought process was a nonexistant one

Two games. x.x

You guys make me feel like I'm just plain bad at this when you have these big long elaborate rationales about why people do things, based on just a few games of someone else's; and mostly all I can manage to explain about reads on even people I've played a ton with is little more than vibes.

[Aureal]

1247 is almost entirely self-contained. Sunflower correctly identified that Klick doesn't meet a nightkill criterion, and I believe Sunflower prioritizes that criterion. Is 1247 still confusing to you?

I've never really had the chance to make nightkills so I haven't given the matter nearly so much thought as to have a strategy for who to target with them. So all of the talk about it is kinda going past me, yeah. Like, I assume you're assuming I'll flip red here so there's a very simple explanation for the NK, seeing as Klick was scumreading me.

I guess Gimli already touched on this point though, so it's probably a waste for me to try to even talk about it.

[Aureal]

Uh, sorry, I expected the prod timer to start with day since the thread was locked for quite some time between phases. And I expected to be dead by now anyway so I didn't have much motivation or see much reason to pay attention. I don't think I have anything left to give this game. I had such high hopes coming in but I've already had to pick myself up from repeated, massive blows to try to struggle onwards, grinding myself down to the bone out of an inflated sense of responsibility. It's had a massive effect on my mental health and I need to step back. I targeted Sunflower with my ability last night and saw no bad dreams visit so nothing useful from that. And I voted for the stupid and bad dreams because I'm stupid and bad (and hate female armor) and obviously nobody else was going to.

[Aureal]

Yeah, so it's really only useful for (mostly) clearing people since the bad dreams probably don't target their own (but not certainly, could be an inventor like in fferyllt's Star Trek game). I didn't think Sunflower would be nightkilled, they were getting attention and some heat, and I didn't have much of a read on them. Getting a reasonably confident clear would've been nice.

[Aureal]

You did great, fire. gj to you and Ravens

Between this and Datisi's game I'm still kind of a wreck so I don't think I really have anything else of value to say here.

[Aureal]

Aww, I was going to cackle evilly about still having a secret PT to cackle evilly in unlike the townies, but apparently it's also locked and not entirely secret.

VOTE: morph for PT double standards

[Aureal]

Yeah, I fully expected it to be made public and have been wondering when it was going to happen since it wasn't included with the others. I didn't think it was

that

spicy! Turns out it was actually sneakily accessible though.

[Aureal]

So, we're not gonna get to see the full setup, are we?