TemporalLich's Grandest Idea uPick [Game Over]

[Itinerants]

Second!
~RH

[Itinerants]

VOTE: snivy
It's been a long time!
~RH

[Itinerants]

i would like to propose we all share the picks we did not get, I got my town pick, here are my picks:

Mafia: Goon(of an arbitrary faction) post 2180

Free: 10,000, post 10000

Mod Discretion: Alien Vote Donator, post 2367

I used a randomizer to choose roles so my town role may or may not be garbage too

Seems like a good idea.
Our picks were:
Town - Conditionally Deathproof Innocent Doctor
Groupscum - Anomalous Collector
Free Space - Zombie
Mod Discretion - VIP
~RH

[Itinerants]

I'm guessing y'all can guess what we got now.
Because it ain't Conditionally Deathproof Innocent Doctor.
~RH

[Itinerants]

VOTE: iamveryhappy

More like iamveryscummy am I right lads???

-Rat

[Itinerants]

Seems an odd role to pick for Mafia, also only claiming the one failed pick instead of all three.

It's all very blatant, which makes me think either Jester or scum pretending to be Jester. Either way, don't want 'im hanging around.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

Hey hey, will read and comment soon, just wana make my presence known

Also

VOTE: bbmola

Hey, been a while

Am I delusional or are you voting someone not on the playerlist?

BBMolla is the creator of the Grand Idea Thread. It is a joke vote. Probably. Wouldn't be surprised if there's a role or two in there that allow for such an elimination, but I doubt we're actually looking at one as of now.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

I'd also like to go on record as saying that I do not believe the Guardian Deity to be Town, as there's a pretty obvious game breaking strat with it that I do not believe would have been missed during setup.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

I'd also like to go on record as saying that I do not believe the Guardian Deity to be Town, as there's a pretty obvious game breaking strat with it that I do not believe would have been missed during setup.

-Rat

What's the game breaking strat?

Thanos that shit. Guardian claims, verifies, and then picks half the remaining players at random who are forced to sacrifice themselves. Guardian now has enough checks for the rest of the players, and the game is solved.

It's somewhat more balanced as scum because the checks can be doubted, and when the game doesn't end they'd be outed anyway, but as Town there's basically nothing scum can really do to stop it.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

The breaking strat doesn't seem like it would work then because the checks would be ince per day

I assumed it would just be however many offerings exist. If it is once per day, then I retract my assertion that it's probably not Town.

@Mod

How frequently is the Guardian Deity of Cops allowed to use the check ability, assuming offerings are available?

[Itinerants]

-Rat

[Itinerants]

I'm not AGAINST a Koba vig, but I'd rather Guillotina or iamveryhangry for the time being.

-Rat

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Question: did town win or lose those games?

I think they lost both games.
(At least, according to a quick skim of the mod ISOs of both games.)
~RH

[Itinerants]

I'm not AGAINST a Koba vig, but I'd rather Guillotina or iamveryhangry for the time being.

-Rat

why do you implicitly oppose a dragoneater vig?

I do not. I just don't actively want him vigged, much the same boat as you.

[Itinerants]

i believe in that vigs should not be used until an elimination and a round of night actions has been taken but like if i was forced to vig rn I would want to resolve dragoneater bc his flip gives the most info and is a likely candidate for a red flip as well

Guillo gives almost nothing, he is just weird and has a fairly unique and eccentric playstyle, while it will prevent him from flaunting a bunch of FPS claim stuff in thread, he is generally experienced enough to be >rand useful if town, even if he confidently states some crazy theories often.

iavh I think GTH flips red but is also a really bad shot as it removes the info he can provide to spew/solving around his slot. Oh he died. Oh he was non-town. Oh well. (Like think of the theory of how day 1 scum flips lead to scum wins more often, it has to do with that they have not spewed more info on who is town/scum from their actions yet as much as if they died on day 2)

Granted yes, GIM it is 100% first priority to kill any non-town ASAP as splits are unknown and miskilling cannot be afforded etc. so not the worst shot in the context of the setup, just longterm can be harmful.

This is a good point.
~RH

[Itinerants]

Koba, scale of one to ten how confident are you on this Guillotina Town read?

[Itinerants]

Subject: Newbie 2113 - Shea it ain't So! | Game Over!

ok just gonna post some questions so we can get some knowledge about the players

1 - pronouns? (some people don't have them listed)
2 - prior experience with mafia? (including derivatives of mafia)
3 - are you gay?

1 - they/them
2 - played on discord and did mafia.gg during the pandemic, mostly fell out of mafia post-2021. decently experienced though, i know most of the terms.
3 - yes

i did research

regardless i think the point is a little inconsistent in practice and needs more evidence, but is a genuine point against their favor.

FUCK that is such a jumpscare jesus koba you don't need to go digging up 2113 of all games

also which point r you talking about

Not Kobabut going to guess it's the second.
~RH

[Itinerants]

*Koba but

[Itinerants]

Why are you willing to trust Koba's read on me if you are not completely sure about Koba?

because it's a meta read and i don't think someone would be ballsy/stupid enough to lie about meta when you're obviously a well-known player

Am i a well know player? Since when? I havent played here since 2021.

i think it can be inferenced by how literally everyone seems to know you (and also how i saw your name all over the mafiascum wiki)

Eh.
Guillo's only on the DoAR page.
I'm on more wiki pages and I'm scarcely well-known.

[Itinerants]

The last post was RH.

[Itinerants]

rh9 were u in giratina pokemon mafia??

Nah.
I was going to but I ended not having the time to.
~RH

[Itinerants]

And on September 16th, we’ll come back to this

I got no interest in making this phase last longer than it needs to.

Prolonging the game creates apathy in town to the point of just settling for anything out of boredom.

The phases are 14 days but we dont have to use them. Dragon is obvious scum, let's yeet them out of existence so we can go on the night to do some spicy actions, i myself cant wait for it.

I think there's a pretty significant difference between prolonging the day and just... having the day actually happen. Has everyone even posted yet?

[Itinerants]

Koba, scale of one to ten how confident are you on this Guillotina Town read?

Also answer please. I can guess it's a high number contextually, but I would like to gauge your actual confidence regardless.

-Rat, all of the above. Signing's hard.

[Itinerants]

VOTE: Guillotina

I have my own doubts about DragonEater, the vibes are... definitely not there.

However, Guillotina's shitpushing here is very, very bad. It's not a Town tunnel, and I think that's extremely apparent.

[Itinerants]

The amount of reaching being done is off the charts here. It doesn't read like the confbias you expect from a Town tunnel, it reads like they're just making shit up to fit a predetermined read.

Actually, now that I say that, maybe Condemner? In which case I actually don't mind helping here as long as it isn't game-ending... I'll dig around in the GIM thread later and decide what I think is most likely.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

I do not think you are lying, I think you are a pattern-seeking monkey.

[Itinerants]

If this is such a well known trait, and it's already pro-scum behavior, then it can be very easily faked. In which case, the difference lies in identifying motivations.

I do not believe Guillotina's motivations are Town here, and I do not believe the reasoning for the push is sincere. Therefore, I think they are scum, and similar behavior as Town isn't going to change my mind because it isn't the behavior itself, it's the reasoning behind it.

[Itinerants]

If this is such a well known trait, and it's already pro-scum behavior, then it can be very easily faked. In which case, the difference lies in identifying motivations.

I do not believe Guillotina's motivations are Town here, and I do not believe the reasoning for the push is sincere. Therefore, I think they are scum, and similar behavior as Town isn't going to change my mind because it isn't the behavior itself, it's the reasoning behind it.

why is DE town rofl

Haven't made up my mind on him yet. Actually leaning scum at the moment, which is why I'm entertaining the idea of helping a hypothetical Condemner!Guillo.

What mostly gives me hesitance is what I believe to be the same thing giving Guillotina urgency. I won't be elaborating further though.

I will commit to ISOing Guillo tomorrow to get your specific posts, however.

[Itinerants]

VOTE: Guillotina

I have my own doubts about DragonEater, the vibes are... definitely not there.

However, Guillotina's shitpushing here is very, very bad. It's not a Town tunnel, and I think that's extremely apparent.

So what's the story there? If you dont like dragon and you dont like me either? What does it mean in terms of reads?

It means I don't think you're aligned at the very least. I'm also more confident on you scum than Dragon scum, and even supposing you're both scum, aligned or otherwise, I want you dead more.

On the Town side, Koba's probtown, Not_Mafia's extremely Town, and I think ZZZX feels Townish for now.

Also down to flashwagon pretty much any of the single-digit posters.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

Well, guess I don't have to bother with that ISO.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

VOTE: pisskop

I thought DE was sorting Guardian Deity. pisskop being confused about it contradicts that, so either DE was faking the crumbs, or it's a scumrole that pisskop is trying to fake dumbtelling.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

Or I was just wrong, but like. What are the odds of that?

[Itinerants]

What? Maybe its be, but this looks half-baked

what does this mean

Sorry, lol.

Maybe it is

.

Lying about meta

is

the meta. Being caught lying about your meta isnt a tell in a game, is it?

It... probably should be? Why would you need to lie about meta as Town???

[Itinerants]

VOTE: Itinerants

May I ask for your reasoning?
~RH
P.S. RR has been posting for most of the past two days. FYI.

[Itinerants]

this game is simply idea with no discards revealed and hate how i can't setup solve this

massclaim fr??

Is this too early?
I've never played GIM so I don't know if when massclaiming is optimal.
~RH

[Itinerants]

this game is simply idea with no discards revealed and hate how i can't setup solve this

massclaim fr??

Is this too early?
I've never played GIM so I don't know when massclaiming is optimal.
~RH

EBWOP

[Itinerants]

Massclaim bad. Joining me on pisskop good.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

[Nono, std, pisskop, xxxz,cook, bluesnek]

Has all non towns potentially me thinks

Agreed.
I will say that my scum pool (IDK about RR) would be roughly the same as this.
~RH

[Itinerants]

[Nono, std, pisskop, xxxz,cook, bluesnek]

Has all non towns potentially me thinks

Agreed.
I will say that my scum pool (IDK about RR) would be roughly the same as this.
~RH

I think ZZZX is probably Town, and I'd add IAVH and Meg to the pool, but I agree on the rest.

[Itinerants]

-Rat, of course

[Itinerants]

Welcome aboard!

[Itinerants]

StD locktown

-Rat

[Itinerants]

VIP is also a weird role to choose for mod discretion

wagon itinerants now pls

It's universally useful regardless of alignment, which makes it perfect for Mod Discretion. Also why would we lie about the Mod Discretion pick instead of just lying about the Town pick or Free Space pick if we were scum???

[Itinerants]

-Rat

[Itinerants]

this is probably a bad q to ask at this stage in the game but

how

exactly

were roles created

pick four, one is given to you? or pick four, one makes your alignment one makes your role

You get one. Town, Groupscum, and Free Space will be whatever alignment the role says, Mod Discretion can have a different alignment.

[Itinerants]

If you want specifics of why VIP, that's a question for RH as it was his suggestion, but I really don't understand the problem with it?

-Rat

[Itinerants]

I really wish this game would pick up, in an ideal world we would have two competing wagons built up by now.

If you self-vote that would help even it out

[Itinerants]

VIP is also a weird role to choose for mod discretion

wagon itinerants now pls

It's universally useful regardless of alignment, which makes it perfect for Mod Discretion. Also why would we lie about the Mod Discretion pick instead of just lying about the Town pick or Free Space pick if we were scum???

to make this exact argument

That just creates liability for no reason though if we get rolecopped/similar? Why wouldn't I be able to make "this exact argument" for ANY Mod Discretion role?

[Itinerants]

That just creates liability for no reason though if we get rolecopped/similar? Why wouldn't I be able to make "this exact argument" for ANY Mod Discretion role?

you could have rolled your scum role, which doesn't make sense with a town role

you also were simply talking about the fact that you claimed mod discretion and talking about why you wouldn't lie about it, not the fact that you chose VIP for it

You said VIP was a weird pick for Mod Discretion, which I was directly responding to. Obviously we'd lie if we'd rolled scum, but that isn't what you said.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

yes listen to the guys whose iso looks like an episode of mad libs.

STD seems fine to me.
In my experience, he tends to be this laid-back as town.
~RH

[Itinerants]

BTW, Yimmy, I'm not sure if you realised, FL is dead.
~RH

[Itinerants]

I've been trying to get them to engage all game. I've been trying to stir up _anything_ all game.

I might have to do a reread, but I'd really rather people generate new stuff that I can be a part of. Or even come at me or something.

I disagree with the notion that we've done nothing.
I've been pretty clear about my opinions the whole game, and while I haven't been as active as I'd normally like to be (new job, tired all the time), it feels like a pretty big misrep to say we've been disengaged and unwilling to do anything.

As far as pocketing Koba goes, I'm mostly ignoring that claim. I do not believe it has any basis in fact, but arguing against it is just gonna be Yuh-huh, Nuh-uh back and forth, which I don't care to deal with.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

People I would be willing to eliminate right now given the opportunity:

pisskop, Snivy, Nono, IAVH, Cook

Of those, I'd prefer either pisskop or Snivy over Cook, No, or IAVH, because nothing slots always feel like a cop out.

People I am not willing to eliminate today, barring shenanigans:

Not_Mafia, Koba, Patchwork, Yimmy, ZZZX

If you've got questions ask 'em. I'll check in again at least once tonight.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

actually aside from myself, and maybe iavh, I can live with that list.

Why NM though? Or Zs?

Not_Mafia's opening complaining about picking all winners and getting VT. I 100% believe Not_Mafia would submit those picks, and I also believe if he got Goon he would have just said so, shielded by the power of the meme.

ZZZX is mostly vibes. He just feels Town, can't point to anything in particular. RH disagrees with me, but his read is also vibe-based, so it is what it is.

[Itinerants]

VOTE: Nono

E-2 by my count

[Itinerants]

-Rat

[Itinerants]

well thats a good indication to

VOTE: ZZZX

How so?

-Rat

[Itinerants]

Why does Nono replacing indicate you should vote ZZZX?

[Itinerants]

Or if that's not what you were referring to, what did you mean?

[Itinerants]

VOTE: Cook

-Rat

[Itinerants]

the same thing dkkoba meant

yeah but idk what that is

They mean that rapid voting doesn't actually mean anything about the alignment of the target, despite it being a common belief that it does.

[Itinerants]

Then what were you trying to say with the "I think it means something" thing?

[Itinerants]

No need! I've dug through the GIM thread for all of Cook's roles, and have found the only one that could have saved you!

Serial Killer With Really Good Hit Dice

If the game introduces an HP system, you have x2.5 the amount of HP a Vanilla Townie would. Each 100% of the HP also counts as a Bulletproof for you, so being shot will simply reduce your health by 100% the max HP of a Vanilla Townie.

(You are otherwise a 2-Shot Bulletproof if no HP system exists.)

VOTE: camelCasedSnivy

[Itinerants]

-Rat

[Itinerants]

Y'know, I fell for the classic prank of confusing rolestopped and roleblocked for that one.

But now I'm confused by you saying it isn't relevant to you. You're claiming to NOT be an unjester here? So functionally just a bulletproof ascetic, since you'd have no reason to ever undo the rolestop?

[Itinerants]

Weird, but probably Town I guess?

UNVOTE:

[Itinerants]

Y'know, I fell for the classic prank of confusing rolestopped and roleblocked for that one.

But now I'm confused by you saying it isn't relevant to you. You're claiming to NOT be an unjester here? So functionally just a bulletproof ascetic, since you'd have no reason to ever undo the rolestop?

ya

i also know there isn't a 1-shot dayvig so cook is not that

Why did you check that though? If one HAD existed, you'd be vanillizing yourself wouldn't you?

[Itinerants]

Y'know, I fell for the classic prank of confusing rolestopped and roleblocked for that one.

But now I'm confused by you saying it isn't relevant to you. You're claiming to NOT be an unjester here? So functionally just a bulletproof ascetic, since you'd have no reason to ever undo the rolestop?

ya

i also know there isn't a 1-shot dayvig so cook is not that

Why did you check that though? If one HAD existed, you'd be vanillizing yourself wouldn't you?

that's an amazing question to ask me pre game

I don't understand. World's Best Role doesn't say anything about pre-game, and pre-game you wouldn't have even known what you were to know to check.

[Itinerants]

Then my question is the same. You have knowledge of your role and alignment at that point, and the ONLY alignment that would ever want to stop being BP Ascetic is Unjester to allow getting killed. Yet you explicitly deny being an Unjester, despite such a claim being in your best interests if indeed you are one.

But then if you're just lying, it makes no sense to claim to have guessed anything at all, because a counterclaim dooms you, and no one would question you wanting to keep the rolestop.

So what the fuck?

-Rat

[Itinerants]

Would sacrificing yourself to Cop God count?

[Itinerants]

So here's where I'm at. I don't think Snivy is lying. Like, if he's SK, why would he claim to be a Cook role at all? Why would he not pull this Unjester thing from the start when he was already clearly setting up for it? Why would he set up an Unjester fakeclaim at all, when surviving a single night gets him autolimmed?

As a real Unjester, his play is not good, but it at least makes sense.

So might as well get a cop shot out of the deal, right? Even if Cop God's scum, scum finding/killing each other is what we want, so it's just better that way.

[Itinerants]

-Rat

[Itinerants]

enchant is scum

they want me dead because its practically a no lim and cop god doesnt get any offerings from it

we should lim enchant just to verify this theory cause if it's true then the cop god isn't mafia aligned and we can follow through on having everyone sacrifice themselves to it. i know it's only one shot per day. we can do it anyway. i just think it would be fun

That doesn't mean anything though? GIM is almost always multiball, Cop God could just be different scum. Also with only one check per day, mass sacrifice is a horrible idea, regardless of Cop God's alignment. We should ideally only have one sacrifice per night, keeping God fed, but not impacting our numbers too much. But even then we should probably wait until we see how nuts the night kills are gonna be.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

okay....
rat what do you say? i'm sure you guys know more about this than me

About Enchant? Leaning scum, but not set on it. I don't think the argument you're having is really AI, but I do think the jump on Snivy looks sketchy.

About you sacrificing? I don't think it's worth it. I can't imagine there being THAT many more day kills in the game, and I'd rather have the extra Town vote on the board. If it affects night kills it's more valuable, but could be better used as a last-second ELo save, so I still say hold on for now.

[Itinerants]

also does multiball mean multiple alignment groups or whatever

It means more than one scumteam. Since GIM has like 50 different scum factions in it, it usually ends up having 2-3 smaller teams instead of one big team like a normal game.

[Itinerants]

also does multiball mean multiple alignment groups or whatever

Yep.
That's it.
~RH

[Itinerants]

By the way, when next day Snivy ends up alive, you elim him regardless of what bullshit he trying to sell you.

Fine by me.
I'm actually feeling like snivy is confirmed 3p at this point.
Probably worth it to vote here.
VOTE: snivy
~RH

[Itinerants]

I am still against this. I think Snivy's telling the truth and the elimination is sub-optimal.

Will move vote if I can convince RH. Leaving for now since I've basically monopolized the vote the whole game.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

I am still against this. I think Snivy's telling the truth and the elimination is sub-optimal.

Will move vote if I can convince RH. Leaving for now since I've basically monopolized the vote the whole game.

-Rat

they're claimed non town tho ? lol

He claimed benign 3rd Party that we actively benefit from allowing to sacrifice.

If you believe he's SK, and want him dead out of paranoia, I get that, but I don't agree that he is SK. None of his play makes sense from that angle, whereas if we take the claim to be true, he made bad decisions, but the motivations line up.

I would rather use the elimination to hit either groupscum or a real SK, and also get a free Cop shot for God, rather than waste the elimination on a slot I view as being 90% likely to be harmless.

I would genuinely rather No Lim than lim Snivy, I'm that confident on him telling the truth here.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

mafia want to keep SK alive bc SK is incentivized to shoot town tonight to reduce chances of being killed

How? Maybe it buys him an extra day if Town is outnumbered tomorrow, which IS possible depending on how much kill power exists, but that also relies on scum knowing Town is outnumbered, otherwise they won't want to out themselves, plus it requires Snivy to have perfect reads, plus even if all of that works out flawlessly, there is no way scum just lets an outed SK live into endgame, so that extra day doesn't actually mean anything.

-Rat

Whoops, sorry, wrong window open

[Itinerants]

I am still against this. I think Snivy's telling the truth and the elimination is sub-optimal.

Will move vote if I can convince RH. Leaving for now since I've basically monopolized the vote the whole game.

-Rat

they're claimed non town tho ? lol

He claimed benign 3rd Party that we actively benefit from allowing to sacrifice.

If you believe he's SK, and want him dead out of paranoia, I get that, but I don't agree that he is SK. None of his play makes sense from that angle, whereas if we take the claim to be true, he made bad decisions, but the motivations line up.

I would rather use the elimination to hit either groupscum or a real SK, and also get a free Cop shot for God, rather than waste the elimination on a slot I view as being 90% likely to be harmless.

I would genuinely rather No Lim than lim Snivy, I'm that confident on him telling the truth here.

-Rat

weren't u in that GIM game where some guy claimed 3p and ended up not being bengin like they claimed on d1? were u one of the people against killing them lol

Maybe? Was that mastina, who was legitimately just wrong about her own win condition and not technically lying?

[Itinerants]

@pisskop

Is your cop result public?

-Rat

[Itinerants]

Well. I am extremely skeptical of this, for what should be obvious reasons, but I suppose it proves itself with patchwork's flip, so I'll wait to make a fuss until after they flip Vengeful or some shit.

[Itinerants]

-Rat

[Itinerants]

sorry i only post every other day - the reason is because i only want to post every other day. same for the fact that i never actually finished my reread
anyway i'm not into voting patchwork at all. the idea is that then we get a cop tomorrow with no deaths? is that because we are scared ccs is a serial killer? ccs loses unless they are unjester so i'm not too worried about them. one cop for the cost of one lim is otherwise, like, an extremely bad trade. also the masonry isn't explained. did one of you roll mason? also pisskop is the scummiest player in the game by a significant margin so i don't feel like trusting them on this matter anyway.
it seems like a comically bad idea. i might be missing something

Patchwork being eliminated prevents kills tonight, per their claim. Denying scum kills is good, and because of the masonry claim, a townflip from patchwork also confirms pisskop as Town, and then there's an extra cop nothing can interfere with. And if they're lying, we eliminate scum anyway, and it's a functional guilty on pisskop.

I think there are definitely oddities with the claim, but worst case scenario patchwork is vengeful or supersaint or something, and it's better to pop that now with fewer claims and deaths out, so it really doesn't make sense to oppose this now.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

youre misunderstanding.

Roles like vengeful offer the eliminated player a free gun to shoot another player, or auto-kills the player to hammer

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ful_(role)

im not vengeful tho

My point was that if you're lying scum, you're probably vengeful or a variant of it, since you're actively seeking elimination. In which case, it's better you die early, so eliminating you is good even if people don't believe in your mason martyrdom.

Meg and Yimmy are MegaSus for their reactions here and make prime investigation targets imo.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

So you want to hammer known town to prevent kills?
I'm not sure thats a great move
I feel like martyr (at least how its described, didn't read the grandI post yet) is stronger later in the game and getting the kpn is kinda important for scumhunting.

Plus we could, you know, try to hammer scum instead

fwiw it lets investigatives do their thing

A free night of investigation still feels more useful after some invests have outed rather than the random chance they die n1. (Potentially from a guilty on day 2)

It was mostly this post that pinged me.

A free night of investigatives is obviously more valuable BEFORE scum knows who to roleblock, and they're shielded from (most) kills anyway.

Feels like mental gymnastics to avoid missing out on the kills.

[Itinerants]

So you want to hammer known town to prevent kills?
I'm not sure thats a great move
I feel like martyr (at least how its described, didn't read the grandI post yet) is stronger later in the game and getting the kpn is kinda important for scumhunting.

Plus we could, you know, try to hammer scum instead

fwiw it lets investigatives do their thing

A free night of investigation still feels more useful after some invests have outed rather than the random chance they die n1. (Potentially from a guilty on day 2)

It was mostly this post that pinged me.

A free night of investigatives is obviously more valuable BEFORE scum knows who to roleblock, and they're shielded from (most) kills anyway.

Feels like mental gymnastics to avoid missing out on the kills.

??????????

"We should eliminate patchwork because it disables scum's kills, allows pisskop to get two results before being in danger, confirms pisskop's alignment, and allows a night where any Town investigatives can get free checks off."

"We should not do that because I think investigatives should either die or out themselves first."

Do you really not see the problem I have with that?

-Rat

[Itinerants]

VOTE: patchwork

I thought I already did this.

[Itinerants]

yeah its something that sounds anti town on the surface and something i literally only ever see scum try to use as a reason to implicate a towny

And in this case I'm suggesting an investigation, not pushing for an elimination. If pisskop comes back and says Meg's green, then by pushing this I have REMOVED a potential mislim, and created a Conftown slot I can't realistically do anything about for at least a night.

I think arguing against a plan that creates an extremely beneficial gamestate for Town in favor of one that ends in way more dead and way easier interference is not guaranteed to be something only scum does, but it's at least sketchy enough to warrant looking into. Especially from a strong mech player like Meg.

[Itinerants]

idk why you all would prefer this game get put on ice

I mean we don't have to hammer yet. If we all just sit around and not vote, what's the difference? Aside from prodge obligations.

[Itinerants]

anytime someone pulls out super shallow and bad faith reasons to scumread someone that immediately gives me red flags especially if i have decent reason to townread that slot lol

Okay, what are your decent reasons to townread Meg then? Because I had them as pretty null before that.

[Itinerants]

I mean we already have someone saccing to get a check for n2 so this isn't really relevant

You mean enchant?

Enchant, are you 100% going to nuke yourself for us?

Yes.

Why didn't this happen?

-Rat

[Itinerants]

damn it i just lost the game

That's a weird choice of words.

[Itinerants]

~RH

[Itinerants]

damn it i just lost the game

That's a weird choice of words.

infohazard do not open if you do not know what i am talking about

I see.
~RH

[Itinerants]

it was a pm to me.

Anyway, Its not an indictment on you

You received a PM that Flavor sacrificed himself to you, even though that very obviously didn't happen?

Sounds like someone's fucking with your messages to me.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

None of that makes sense to me

Nothing makes sense.
~RH

[Itinerants]

uhh i'm not in a pt. why are we doing this though?

Probably to catch scum in a lie?
~RH

[Itinerants]

Sorry, Sonic Frontiers has taken all of my non-work attention lately.

I see we're still basically doing nothing.

pisskop, did you ever figure out what the deal was with you thinking Flavor gave you an offering? If you did actually receive a PM saying that, were there any discrepancies between that one and the one you would have presumably gotten from Snivy? If you're getting false messages from somewhere that's pretty important to figure out.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

Bingle, Itinerats and Psyche (by my count) need to confirm if they are in a pt or not.

I thought we already did, but if my memory's messing with me, yes.
~RH

[Itinerants]

i would like to propose we all share the picks we did not get, I got my town pick, here are my picks:

Mafia: Goon(of an arbitrary faction) post 2180

Free: 10,000, post 10000

Mod Discretion: Alien Vote Donator, post 2367

I used a randomizer to choose roles so my town role may or may not be garbage too

Seems like a good idea.
Our picks were:
Town - Conditionally Deathproof Innocent Doctor
Groupscum - Anomalous Collector
Free Space - Zombie
Mod Discretion - VIP
~RH

Bingle, Itinerats and Psyche (by my count) need to confirm if they are in a pt or not.

I thought we already did, but if my memory's messing with me, yes.
~RH

This is interesting to me Itinerants.

I swear you aren't reading the setup info.
The

Mason Feasibility Clause

explicitly says all

All Mason-like and Neighbor groups have an extra member rolled randomly out of eligible players (this adds to their role). This is to ensure Mason-likes and Neighbors don't end up being named roles by accident

.
Also, what makes you think we weren't neighborized or something?
Because this sure looks like kinda opportunistic.
VOTE: Eira
~RH

[Itinerants]

I'm reading up now.
~RH

[Itinerants]

You know what.
VOTE: Wheme
A real Mason wouldn't be afraid to fullclaim.
And upon thinking over things again, Eira not reading the setup info was probably NAI and I overanalysed their actions to be exclusively scum-indicative.
~RH

[Itinerants]

And now Wheme's on E-1.
~RH

[Itinerants]

Welcome aboard new people!

I apologize for my absence most of yesterday, been dealing with a lot in my personal life, but I think I've mostly stabilized, and am ready to get back into the game.

I haven't read everything yet, and I am about to start work, but I will hopefully have that done and a reads list ready by tomorrow.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

I'd like to hear people's thoughts about massclaiming

Sure.
I'm all for it.
~RH

[Itinerants]

I'm cool with massclaim

-Rat

[Itinerants]

Okay, I still haven't read properly, can't make my brain focus on it, but I did skim, and... I'm struggling to find real scumreads tbh. Which tells me the slots that lurked out are pretty likely places to look.

Enchant's martyrdom is also very interesting. His role PM doesn't inform of the Lovers aspect, but he did directly reference it with the hammer, so it was a conscious decision that it was worth the trade. Antispew is a weak excuse, because Enchant COULD have backed up the mason fakeclaim instead and coasted off of that for at least a day or two.

So if Enchant HAD done that, who was likely to go over in Wheme's place? Looking through the VCs... Eiralox was the primary wagon before Wheme, I recall having scumpings on IAVH early game, and apparently there's a VT claim?

VOTE: Eiralox

I'd like to know what exactly the role that allegedly got replaced with VT for you was. I assume Lich gave you your slot's picks?

[Itinerants]

-Rat

[Itinerants]

So if Enchant HAD done that, who was likely to go over in Wheme's place? Looking through the VCs... Eiralox was the primary wagon before Wheme

i'm gonna analyze this sentence. the premise is: Enchant and Eira aligned.

VC 2.14

WhemeStar

(7)

- Gamma Emerald, Cook, DkKoba, Bingle, pisskop, Itinerants, Enchant

[EXILED!]

Eiralox (1) - Not_Mafia
Itinerants (1) - Eiralox

Not voting: KatyKimFanClub, MegAzumarill, WhemeStar, ZZZX

With 13 alive it takes 7 to exile.

Deadline is frozen at 2 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes until a replacement is found.

KatyKimFanClub is V/LA until Tuesday.

On WhemeStar:

Gamma Emerald: Scum Partner?
Cook: Scum Partner?
DkKobA: Departed Doctor
Bingle: Respected Member of Town
pisskop: A deity among mortals
Itenerants: Respected Member of Town
Enchant: Heartbroken Bamboozler and Eira's pal in crime

Aren't Eira's partners Cook and Gamma? Bingle and Itenerants have only been talking about Eiralox since Day 2 except when Bingle voted Cook so this is a guessing game. A bit hard with such limited info for me as a humble traitor to find my buddies.

So we gotta look at the people ain't voting then?

KatyKimFanClub: Scum Partner?
MegAzumarill: Basically cleared by a deity so uh.... No?
WhemeStar: Ded
ZZZX: Scum Partner?

Ok no... Hmmm who's left?

Not_Mafia: Jacksonvirgo?
Eiralox: Maybe there are only two scum, you know?



Who is it then? Who voted Wheme to save me when probability is Bingle would have gone over if wheme convinced Koba instead of deciding enough was enough down with books. Cook and Gamma? Has to be. who else? I mean i do love puzzles.

anyway.

i wanna hear from other people insteada havin to type so counternarrative this i guess

I don't necessarily think the Wheme wagon was STARTED to save you. I think that Enchant was faced with a choice between getting to be fake-cleared as Mason for a bit but risking people swinging back onto you, and sacrificing himself but keeping the attention away.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

You, and probably a couple of the lurker slots.

RH says Bingle also.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

okay

To be clear, Rat SRs you but I think you're probably nulltown.
~RH

[Itinerants]

anyone got anything to ask me i'll try to be around other than that it's pretty simple from here on out.

I'd like to know what exactly the role that allegedly got replaced with VT for you was. I assume Lich gave you your slot's picks?

I asked for that literally a week ago and despite being completely impossible that knowing what role was not included in the game would benefit scum, Eiralox refuses to answer.

[Itinerants]

So, if I'm not misinterpretating Cook, Bingle is Mafia who gave an invention that allowed for every non-Mafia player to have their role PM publicly disclosed?
~RH

[Itinerants]

I did tell Rat something was off about Bingle.
So I'm not against VOTE: Bingle.
~RH

[Itinerants]

This sounds incredibly fake. And yet, it makes absolutely zero sense to make up something this convoluted, especially since it immediately blows up in Cook's face if she's wrong.

I don't really agree that it has to be Bingle though. What if it isn't a role at all? If it doesn't come from the GIM thread, it couldn't have been submitted as a pick, so it has to be an independent mechanic. And yet, that also seems absurd since why would Lich inject an instant win button into the game?

None of this makes any sense at all if the invention is real, but I don't think Cook is lying about something this weird and specific and implausible. So... it has to be fake. An anonymous messenger that doesn't tell its target the message came from a messenger does have a lot of potential to be game breaking, and I can imagine Lich restricting its usage to prevent particular abuses, in which case, this does point to Bingle. But then the mod acknowledging Cook's action wouldn't have happened, so that can't be it (and I haven't even verified that a role like that exists either).

I guess I have to try to sift through the entire GIM thread to figure this shit out. I'll work on that tomorrow, and hopefully find a sensible explanation for this mess.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

viewtopic.php?t=59348&start=2090

Here's the role giving these out, that makes Cook clear from being mafia at least.

Took a while to find

Interesting. Indeed that sure does sound like a potentially game-breaking role, and has built in restrictions on use to prevent it going too nuts.

[Itinerants]

-Rat

[Itinerants]

Is there a case for him being the inventor or is this a witch hunt or 12 angry men situation?

"Case" perhaps implies more than what is there, but Bingle has claimed to have a gamebreaking role that cannot be used in certain ways to prevent it from COMPLETELY breaking the game.

Cook saw the "gamebreaking" part and jumped to the conclusion that Bingle must have been the source of an invention she claims was sent to her by the Mafia.

Meg found the GIM role that seems to be the only one capable of doing something like what Cook described, and it does indeed have restrictions attached preventing autowin.

I think it's enough to warrant Bingle fullclaiming at the very least.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

Betting on there being multiple gamebreaking roles? Perhaps you were not aware the alignment of the Inventor was announced? Simply making a tactical error?

Actually, on that note, @Meg, did your invention also announce it came from Mafia?

-Rat

[Itinerants]

Betting on there being multiple gamebreaking roles? Perhaps you were not aware the alignment of the Inventor was announced? Simply making a tactical error?

Actually, on that note, @Meg, did your invention also announce it came from Mafia?

-Rat

It did not

That is strange if it was deliberately included then, regardless of whether it was Bingle or not. The only way that really makes sense to me is if Mafia thought Cook was an allyable 3P, but even then it's a weird risk to take unnecessarily...

[Itinerants]

Betting on there being multiple gamebreaking roles? Perhaps you were not aware the alignment of the Inventor was announced? Simply making a tactical error?

Actually, on that note, @Meg, did your invention also announce it came from Mafia?

-Rat

What? Betting on there being multiple gamebreaking roles does absolutely nothing about me needing to claim my role eventually. Nothing about alignment announcement was intrinsic to the role Meg linked, so if it wasn’t intentional and actually happened that is a gross mod error on TLich’s part. And I’m kinda surprised you’re banking on mechanical incompetence to justify a scumread on ME.

I mean, I know you're damn good at mech, but I don't think anyone is infallible.

However, Meg not getting that announcement does change my interpretation of events somewhat. I assumed it had to be part of the role, despite not being stated in the GIM post, because I couldn't think of a reason Mafia would voluntarily announce that. Even the 3p thing (which you're right is actually impossible) was me stretching really hard.

And yet, the nature of the claimed invention is already heavily skewed toward Mafia, so why would Cook need to add that part if she's lying?

-Rat

[Itinerants]

Good luck herding people onto itenerants. That leaves Eiralox and Bingle. I might be okay with more pressure on ZZZX but otherwise

i'm happy with the game being slow because it's the most effective way to force scum into an even tighter corner

.

I don’t get this

ask bingle and itenerants whether this game state is desirable to them

Honestly I would actually prefer a fast gamestate.
More content to work with.
~RH

[Itinerants]

My towngame is more adapted to faster games.
~RH

[Itinerants]

Maybe a massclaim?

i was out smoking and wanted to vote Bingle then thought lol maybe they a venge or something. anyway i don't care about a massclaim one way or another pretty sure town wins. as i said ya'll do you

Can you explain?
~RH

[Itinerants]

Well, would you look at that:

Werewolf One-shot Paranoid Gun Owner

Activates automatically on the first Night during which anyone targets you.

Oh, don't worry. The picture is around. I will edit.

The ONLY one-shot PGO in the GIM thread.

But also I don't even believe this claim anyway. There are unrestricted PGOs in GIM, so why would anyone deliberately choose a one-shot?

It's a bullshit claim to get investigations off him, and even if it IS somehow real, it's a wolf role because he didn't actually think through making a viable fakeclaim, just said whatever role he thought would get people off his back.

VOTE: Eiralox

[Itinerants]

-Rat

[Itinerants]

Ugh, okay that's my bad. I only looked up the full "paranoid gun owner," didn't expect the abbreviation in an actual role list.

I still think it's bullshit because I can't imagine why anyone would pick a one-shot when an unlimited version exists, but I should have been more thorough in my search before pulling the gotcha.

[Itinerants]

Including you, curiously. You keep saying someone else should ask.

Though I also don't really know what you're talking about, or I would have just answered anyway.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

I... think he may have misread the question? I'll ask what he meant, but we're not in a hood or anything.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

hmmm okay I can say one more thing why not: gameplan was: RH goes for the Bingle bus while Rat is kept in reserve for a later Eira vote. Neither Bingle or Itenerants can vote outside of Eira today because it'll confirm town.

pretty obvious, as obvious as their enchant bus via wheme.

now kill me lol i want out

If you're really town, this isn't a good idea.
And anyways, this is exactly what Bingle wants you to think. For real, if you really think we're groupscum, you should look elsewhere like the people voting us.
Also, I know you're lying about PGO.
We visited you the other night and survived.
~RH

[Itinerants]

Also, I know you're lying about PGO.
We visited you the other night and survived.

claimed 1shot pgo

I missed that.
Rat told me Eira claimed PGO but not 1-shot in hydra pt.
~RH

[Itinerants]

scum need me to die at this point. itenerants you already visited me by some arcane means time to claim a guilty

Eir does have a point here. Why did you target them?

Been sus on the slot most of the game, seemed like the safest bet at the time.

-Rat

[Itinerants]

Well fuck. I haven't been able to put the time or energy into this game that I meant to, which is sad because I love Grand Idea shenanigans, but ah well. If this is real, it is how it is.

If it's real, Eiralox is pretty much my only real scumread. If we're really lucky Bingle's the only partner Enchant had, and Eiralox is either 3P or solo scum, and this game can end today if the vig is real.

If it's not real, I actually had an epiphany here, that being that Mafia!Bingle being a Necromancer totally explains Enchant's willingness to go down with the Book Club, so my confidence on Scum!Bingle is way up even if he isn't the mysterious Inventor.

VOTE: Bingle
Just in case.