JOAT uPick | FIN!

[Bell]

First

[Bell]

I have one ability that takes another player and myself out of the game for one day. If you have something that benefits from that, share.

[Bell]

Makes sense.

[Bell]

Titus seems okay so far.

[Bell]

I don’t get that.

[Bell]

I don’t get that.

your claim in RVS seems like you're scum trying to generate townread by claiming a trivially confirmable scummy ability as if you would as if you're scum trying to fakeclaim Miller

-TL

Incredible.

[Bell]

VOTE: Relativistic person

[Bell]

The last game I was in with pooky both millers were millers and everybody refused to believe it.

Though no, this isn’t a miller claim, mod just tweaked my ability a little to make it anti-town unless approached in a good way.

I.e., by being upfront.

[Bell]

It would be kinda neat to see a global union movement,

But then I remember that sets me up for the “that’s communism” zinger.

[Bell]

I’m getting relative is picking and choosing vibes.

@FB that’s exactly why I’m not town reading you yet. *nods sagely*

[Bell]

As a plus your anti union angle is slightly better than usual at incensing me.

[Bell]

Cool. Before you go are you scum?

[Bell]

Official Union Membership Roll:

President & Party Chair: Pooky
General Counsel & Chief Hugger: Titus
Incompetent Bean Counter/Wannabe Capitalist Spy: Firebringer
Warrior Poet: Laplacian
Chief Questioner: Ircher

Here we go.*points at pooky*
Stop that.

[Bell]

I dunno what the point of pressuring me out the gate is when I just slip all over myself when given time.

[Bell]

Tbh, I’m pretty sure I could be sorted by my second post.
But then someone like, turned themselves into a pretzel and declared it scummy because it was a townie thing to do.

[Bell]

I dunno what the point of pressuring me out the gate is when I just slip all over myself when given time.

I can't help it when you scum claim on the first page

but you are a good friend so I'm not actually going to vote you unless I can't find any of your scumbuddies and one thing I've learned over the years is that sometimes keeping scum alive so they have to awkwardly interact with their team is better than bringing them instant justice.

But I’m town tho.

[Bell]

LTO’s approach is hard to differentiate between hard nosed because they’re role playing a hard nose or an actual hard nose.

I don’t actually know what a hard nose is.

[Bell]

LTO, if I may ask. How many games of mafia have you played, what do you enjoy about mafia, do you normally write like this?

Do you think that Pooky not being forthcoming is frustrating? Suspicious?

Nobody is voting me yet.

I think. Why not call out temporal lich /RH hydra for not voting me instead even though they have a slight scum lean too?

[Bell]

You guys realize it would also be a scum claim for Pooky not to call me town by page 30 in bell land, right?

My expectations are kind of low there though, uh, assuming Pooky is town this game, which I dunno.

[Bell]

LTO’s approach is hard to differentiate between hard nosed because they’re role playing a hard nose or an actual hard nose.

I don’t actually know what a hard nose is.

LTO's an easy sort

if you're mafia she can't be mafia with you because you would've told her in your scum PT that Pooky will always catch you by page 3 and she wouldn't be doing this ridiculous lol push on me

I would not have said this. I can’t even remember if I’ve ever been scum in a game where you’ve been town.

[Bell]

You guys realize it would also be a scum claim for Pooky not to call me town by page 30 in bell land, right?

My expectations are kind of low there though, uh, assuming Pooky is town this game, which I dunno.

this is such a town bell post

no its not

Town Bell would expect me to read him as town

Well here’s my perspective.
I’m super self aware.
While usually I come off very brazen, and I know exactly what you’re saying here.
I also got a little annoyed because I wanted to engage the game more at the beginning but lost the opportunity because I was driving home from work and then I rolled my eyes when pooky scum read me because I was like, goddamnit it’s because I didn’t engage early isn’t it? And then I thought, well pooky would do this either way. Also saying anything about it would set him off or come off as super defensive so I shouldn’t say anything and just focus on other people, because he’ll think that is scummy even though it’s not because I’m town
And then I went down a “would pooky try to kill me early just because I’m annoying for him to play against?” And the. I thought, “nah, pooky hates that kind of thing he wouldn’t be a hypocrite like that” and then I thought, “uh, I think I’m being too charitable there and there’s nothing wrong with that approach either way” and the. I thought, sigh he’s probably just pressuring me because I’m an easy sort and I shouldn’t over complicate it. But then I was like but won’t Pooky get on my case for denying I’m scum over and over like he says I will when being called scum and then I was like, nature is hard. My nature is annoying.

And then I posted that.

[Bell]

Ircher shouldn’t vote me, the hell Ircher.

[Bell]

I’m tired. I hope someone gets day vigged soon.

[Bell]

I encourage people to day vig ircher.
Troll Ircher is usually scum Ircher.

[Bell]

The thing is with that terminally offline lady, is that lich said my role didn’t have much scumminess to it and then said I was scum.

Scum equity = likelihood of being scum. Or % of stocks i own. Er, maybe he was saying that my value as scum wasn’t much because of the ability I claimed but I think they clarified so all they said was, was that I wasn’t likely scum for that claim and the. Said they were scum reading me for it.

[Bell]

That was Defcon. Everyone trolls there.

You were literally the only one that was doing it.

[Bell]

And then way back when you were 3P and you were intentionally/accidentally counter balancing me by being a rebel. When we hydra’d the once.

[Bell]

…so they thought I was lying out the gate but failed to give a reason why they thought I would lie about it.

[Bell]

Well, that's what I made of Harmony's logic. It's not why I'm voting you currently, so you'll have to press Harmony for the actual details.

Uh, why are you voting me?

[Bell]

Hmm... Bell is lacking in energy this game...

*looks back at posts*
Uh. You sure?

[Bell]

Okay then. Yeah. I’m lacking energy. Low energy Bell they call me. My favorite thing to do is nope out on my dog house roof.

[Bell]

[Bell]

is joyboy an alisae alt?

They’re not antagonizing me enough.

[Bell]

Because I was trying to figure out if you were a fake hard nose or a real one. And the rest of your answers don’t really require an additional response unless I specifically think you’re lying about something.

The only thing that is slightly eyebrow raising is the way you’re noticing pooky doubling down. The wording feels strange. But there’s not much to be said about it. Other than that it feels vaguely round about.

[Bell]

In other words I was asking those questions to gauge if you were genuine or not. I think some of my approach is just to get people to say things and then feel out if I believe them.

*blink* whose brocoli?

[Bell]

Laplacian.
I feel bad for siloing. But they are sidling up to me.
Watch list.

[Bell]

Most miller claims are millers.

[Bell]

I agree, which is why I decided to be forthright about it. But then you said I was scum for it.

Hasty speculation is not the same as a lean scum statement.

[Bell]

the comparison to a miller fakeclaim was a comparison, I find Bell's role claim to be scummy for that reason

pedit: statistically yes, but I'm fairly sure the strategy is to claim late Day 1

-TL

I don’t know these things! I’m bad at role stuff.

[Bell]

This doesn’t change the statistics and there is no statistic about whether more scum claim immediately or late day. Regardless of the strategy, that doesn’t change the statistic.

Albeit yes~ I’m not the same thing as a miller.

[Bell]

prior interactions

But doesn't this not work given a player is aware of their own past more so than anyone else? I can begrudgingly accept the vibes approach, even if to me it feels like a complete waste of mental energy. Is it expected to go read the prior games of players before playing with them?

A double negative.
Honorary scum.

[Bell]

Hey, I answered that.

[Bell]

Part of my play is to be town read and I’m aware of what looks townie, if I trip what I consider a bell scum tell because of life circumstances, I’m not going to immediately fault you for it.

But I will fault you for it if you don’t change your mind as I post more~

[Bell]

I have three people on the "I should be paranoid" list.
FB (but they're doing a good job), Dunn, and Laplacian.
I literally dunno which ones, if any are scum.

I'm still confused on TL's "I lean scum on this person for this claim" and their later "I think we should be cautious of such claims!"
Which are two different stances.

[Bell]

Also, good night. I'm turning in early.

Have a good one.

[Bell]

I have three people on the "I should be paranoid" list.
FB (but they're doing a good job), Dunn, and Laplacian.
I literally dunno which ones, if any are scum.

Based on what?

Laplacian has kind of sidled up to me and been generally supportive, but doesn't quite seem to be talking to or seems content for me not to directly speak with them. I think I'm just being weird there. But it's this zone that kind of occupies my mind, it reminds me of what Drew (and I can think of other times, it's just sort of a commonish ploy) did with FB in our last game together.

You're just blatantly siding up with me. Sometimes you town bin/defend me too fast when you're scum, lately anyway. This one is pretty strong coming from you. For an entrance I mean.

I have a sneaking suspicion FB just likes to be a contrarian and enjoys twisting themselves around when they see something and consider it a strength (I do this too, but on the other hand, I may be projecting).

[Bell]

It's devastating seeing Dunnstral say so many correct things at once. They must be scum.

[Bell]

No I just hate people that make sense and say things well. It was a joke.
But also, yeah. It's easier to be right about stuff when you have all the answers laid out for you.

[Bell]

@Pooky any opinions on anyone else yet?

[Bell]

The second post is not the case. Pooky usually starts a pooky cult where he gives people humorous titles based on the theme of the game it has nothing to do with his reads and more to do with what he enjoys and may be a survival strategy.

[Bell]

A linked read where if I’m scum than you’re not when I know that I’m not scum isn’t a read from my perspective. in general the more assumptions you make the less likely you are to be correct as there are more points of failure. So I don’t consider it a read either.

[Bell]

I don’t know Pooky well, I’ve played a lot of games with him in it, but I don’t consider myself particularly good at reading him. Or understanding him. This is our usual dynamic though. I tend to try to sort Pooky because they play the game and I’m drawn to that.

[Bell]

You agree that you’re scum?

[Bell]

Meh, bottom reads seem right for this phase.
But I’m paranoid of like, everyone. In your higher reads.

Relatisvistic still hasn’t established why they should scum read me for my claim other than that it was a scummy role that I claimed in a townie manner and thus I as scum (the glaring assumption ) did it to get town read.

Then they backpedaled to caution preaching before giving up the ghost when Dunnstral came by.

[Bell]

For clarification purposes I target someone during the day then when night occurs we’re both out and immune from any abilities and cannot do anything. It is indeed confirmable because ff they would announce it If I used the ability. At day end. I have not reread it, but I think that’s the jist.

[Bell]

I’ve made content and I’m only going to make more.
On the other hand, maybe you’re just clumsily quoting a quirk of luffy and you’re not saying what I think you’re saying.

[Bell]

Exhibit A. Frame 2.

[Bell]

Turning that around, do you have any genuine reads with reasoning. Give me your favorite read if you would be so kind. The one you’ve put the most thought in.

[Bell]

You got 15 more pages to change your mind pooky.

[Bell]

You got 15 more pages to change your mind pooky.

i'll change my mind when you get fferylt to change your role pm

Hey bear, it’s your humiliation not mine. *smirk*

[Bell]

btw you just perspective slipped me as town lol

I will never perfectly use grammar in this regard, you know that about pretty much everyone.
It is true that there’s no humiliation if you’re scum tho.

[Bell]

My viewpoint and writing is not perfect, I will not always take scum you and town you into account in the same breath. I’ve been accused of perspective slips almost exclusively as town. If anything I’m more careful about that sort of thing as scum.

It just didn’t work rhetorically for me to try seeing if you’d respond to that sort of angle while in the same breath.

[Bell]

I’m not trying to hit my tonal points. My tone is just similar because I’m town.

This isn’t even the first time you’ve done the hah you perspective slipper thing on me Pooky, I’m pretty sure you’ve done it before. On others and it wasn’t true or accurate there either.

Has that ever worked for you?

[Bell]

Being any of you three playing together a lot sounds exhausting. Is it always like this?

Can we talk about other things?

Does FireBringer have a real set of reads yet?

Sure. Though, I consider is t very normal for players to pressure each other throughout the game we’re just active and know what buttons to push to try to interpret what they’re doing.

[Bell]

I’m not trying to hit my tonal points. My tone is just similar because I’m town.

This isn’t even the first time you’ve done the hah you perspective slipper thing on me Pooky, I’m pretty sure you’ve done it before. On others and it wasn’t true or accurate there either.

I’ve never been caught for perspective slipping since the first time I was scum. *shrug* it didn’t work here either.

Has that ever worked for you?

yea flea the magician perspective slipped all over me in viewtopic.php?t=86704

you should know cuz you were in the game and we spent like 10 pages arguing whether it was a perspective slip with flea's entire scum team

[Bell]

Ah, I’m going to back out. I’m at work.
Lost my response in that quote.

Just insert *ur wrong* into the bottom of it

[Bell]

*twitch*

[Bell]

It was in reference to the fact that I can post after I die.

[Bell]

So I can harass him about how much he sucks afterward.

Yes that still assumes he’s town but the entire premise is significant garbage. It is the lowest form of hunting. Grammar bullshit reaped with weak justifications.

[Bell]

Because it’s wrong and every time I’ve been accused of it it’s been wrong except once in the excitement of an elo game as my first time as scum.

You’re just pushing this as hard as you can even though it’s an incredibly common mistake to make and you know this. Your justification of my perspective ignored my own perspective, that it was rhetorical.

[Bell]

It was in reference to the fact that I can post after I die.

This is completely new information about your supposed role that seems to be a fabrication to cover up a perspective slip.

VOTE: Bell

…

[Bell]

You guys better correct him because I’m at work. *pissed*

[Bell]

Sorry, her. My mistake.

[Bell]

Oh okay, nobody is going to correct them.

Well I will, I have no fucking idea how, But LTO failed to realize everyone has multiple abilities I.e., a joat, jack of all trades. Etc etc.

There are few explanations for why they decided to go down this road. That don’t involve unfamiliarity with a core component of the game.

[Bell]

I find it doubtful that everyone doesn’t have multi abilities. So it doesn’t even make sense from any perspective. Except a knee jerk reaction. But that doesn’t make sense either given how they try to come off as at least, marginally together. Albeit people keep throwing advice at them so they’re coming off as inexperienced as part of their personality/gameplan. When they’ve played mafia for two years so I’m back to confusion.

Someone explain them. That doesn’t involve LTO assuming I would lie to get out of another lie when the truth or hell, a lesser lie that doesn’t involve a role could be used just as easily.

[Bell]

Oh. Well there we go it really was that they think that.

Uh. No. That’s really bad reasoning.

[Bell]

Caught for the wrong reasons.
Sure, I’d fall for that.
Do you know what I don’t like Pooky?
It’s that my explanation hasn’t changed your view when you know it’s incredibly unlikely for me to lie about either.

[Bell]

Either ability.
I should have asked for a day vig.

[Bell]

I’m her favorite. Also, I was the first to register so.
Then again prism was co writer and he
probably would have looped the nozzle.

[Bell]

Either ability.
I should have asked for a day vig.

i dont think you're lying about either ability

but that has nothing to do with your alignment

how I claim these things does and you’re not commenting on it.

[Bell]

how I claim these things does and you’re not commenting on it.

why would I comment on it

Because you, as resident Bell tea leaf reader should know. I’m such an easy sort after all. That you should this is pretty out of character for me not to test the waters on stuff first before giving up information or making myself vulnerable.

[Bell]

Sigh bunch of pages while at work I can’t respond to all this.

I’m disappointed.

[Bell]

Joyboy is more interesting that Bell

On my personal reads level, yeah. On a gameplay level, Bell. What's the downside in limming Bell?

If i had to think of a downside it'd probably being unsure abt bell since from what i remember his posts could come from either alignment. I also checked back and i don't really get the slip comment on them.

Meanwhile Joyboy is a much more attractive vote in my eyes, same as Hu Tao maybe

Did you miss Bell can talk after death?

Titus, why would killing a towns person be better than leaving them alive.

[Bell]

I’m literally no more accurate than anyone else. I can be a trusted voice without being eliminated because I am easy to read and I only get more difficult to eliminate over time.

[Bell]

Pooky knows this,
Everybody does. I’m annoying to play against as town.

It terms of perspective slipping and then being called out while still being town, I’m not going to meta all the different time’s I’ve been “gotcha”d’ by bad mafia players. It’s time consuming and if you want to use that reasoning then that’s on you.

[Bell]

I’m literally no more accurate than anyone else. I can be a trusted voice without being eliminated because I am easy to read and I only get more difficult to eliminate over time.

Ok soooo wanna vote joyboy?

What’s wrong with joyboy besides that they’re a gimmick?

[Bell]

I really can’t post at work *grumbles* you should at least give me to the weekend to drown you all in posts.

[Bell]

I’m literally no more accurate than anyone else. I can be a trusted voice without being eliminated because I am easy to read and I only get more difficult to eliminate over time.

Ok soooo wanna vote joyboy?

What’s wrong with joyboy besides that they’re a gimmick?

You have something to find them town for?

No but I don’t vote people for an absence of reasons why they’re town until a lot later. Unless they piss me off by being inactive while they’re at it.

Hu Tao is currently in the lead for person I will kill because they’re not doing anything.

[Bell]

not doing anything.

Is there any reason you did not bring up Sakura Hana in the same statement? (I understand giving Light a break as she is currently marked as on a vacation)

They did something and I like them.
Rather other people like them and think well of them and yeah, V/LA. I don’t have partners, so it’s a waste of your time to fish for them, if you’re town.

[Bell]

Joyboy is more interesting that Bell

On my personal reads level, yeah. On a gameplay level, Bell. What's the downside in limming Bell?

If i had to think of a downside it'd probably being unsure abt bell since from what i remember his posts could come from either alignment. I also checked back and i don't really get the slip comment on them.

Meanwhile Joyboy is a much more attractive vote in my eyes, same as Hu Tao maybe

Did you miss Bell can talk after death?

Titus, why would killing a towns person be better than leaving them alive.

I'm not sure if you're town and you can talk after death so we don't really suffer downsides.

No. This is bad. Even for you.

[Bell]

There are obvious downsides to killing town.
Your perspective ignoring that is anti-town at best.

[Bell]

Okay and do you think you won’t be able to read me 50 pages from now?

[Bell]

And why don’t you read me as town?
Why are you leading with “oh if he’s dead then I can still rely on him for commentary therefore he’s currently the best elimination”
Instead of a reason to scum read me?

[Bell]

Okay and do you think you won’t be able to read me 50 pages from now?

Why would I want a day with 50 more pages when I feel like a good enough case is made and I have theories to test?

I'm not opposed to a joyboy or broccoli lim but I'd rather lim you.

Elaborate on your theories.

[Bell]

Bell, do you always act this entitled? Genuinely curious.

People are giving me the impression you're so blatantly obvious to read

and you have this entitled air around you. I figured voting you would be funny now I'm just going "lol" about it.

Always? No this is pretty much a mafia only thing. Something about getting pushed as mafia tends to set me off. Probably a trauma thing. I’ve been considering unplugging but it’s difficult for me not to rise to the bait. It’s almost automatic.

[Bell]

And why don’t you read me as town?
Why are you leading with “oh if he’s dead then I can still rely on him for commentary therefore he’s currently the best elimination”
Instead of a reason to scum read me?

I like Pooky's case. Not rocksolid and I asked you for evidence and got crickets.

I’m not giving you evidence of me being gotcha’d and being town. You’ve been playing mafia for years and witnessed it yourself.

[Bell]

viewtopic.php?t=85156

That one I was singularly focused on omgusing you. While having a word restriction.
Wait did I forget if I made up the word restriction.
I don’t remember. But not the same thing.
It’s true, if I must muster up evidence that people have been gotcha’d as town before I’d rather just argue that there is simply no way you could be arguing in good faith and haven’t witnessed it before.

[Bell]

Wasn’t LTO the player that said they thought I was scum because I claimed a miller-like role. That’s really not a quick or intelligent read.

[Bell]

Oh, that was RH. Never mind.
But then LTO have their own issues. I wonder if their time spent breaking down unfamiliar terminology is alignment indicative somehow.
But they contribute enough without it, even if it’s filler. They seem to be getting up to speed. I’m still not sure.

[Bell]

Laplacian is portrait painting which always makes me nervous. They’re listing out people’s characteristics to inflate and complement them. But they don’t really have much to do with whether they’re scum or not and gives them room to maneuver, but that might just be because it’s day 1, so that fits that way too.

[Bell]

It wasn’t a good time to mention it, it was just me telling the truth when accused of a different motivation.

Look I’m just not going to always say if someone is scum or town or not. Not all of my paragraphs are going to have that sort of pluralistic writing. It’s incredibly common in mafia and I spot others doing it *all the time* and I never comment or say anything because I know that’s a bad reason to suspect someone because it assumes someone is an idiot rather than merely clumsy.
I am much more careful in word choice as scum. To avoid making those mistakes and it makes me appear closed off and slow to adopt new reads.

[Bell]

3 pages Pooky.

[Bell]

The perspective slip is that I wouldn’t know Pooky is town unless I was scum.

The. He added on top of it that he thinks that given I wouldn’t know or expressed neutrality about his alignment my default position in a post I would construct wouldn’t have one where the baseline is town.

[Bell]

You're not serious?

..I am serious. >_>

[Bell]

Its one of those things you use for reaction baiting and get more reasons to vote said person based on bad response but never as a case argument

See that’s what I thought then he never let up and let it ride and then other players that have no business thinking that based on their level of experiencing nodding there heads and agreeing and then adding on their own horrible ideas for why it’s a good idea to kill me.

It’s enough to drive a dog to drink.

[Bell]

Well enough venting. Paper. Then weekend tommorrow and I can actually spend time trying to sort through the bullshit for something useful. Without also dealing with constant traffic from children with stuffy noses, nose bleeds and scrapes.

I really shouldn’t have engaged as much as I did today. No mistakes but…bleh.

[Bell]

Its one of those things you use for reaction baiting and get more reasons to vote said person based on bad response but never as a case argument

See that’s what I thought then he never let up and let it ride and then other players that have no business thinking that based on their level of experiencing nodding there heads and agreeing and then adding on their own horrible ideas for why it’s a good idea to kill me.

It’s enough to drive a dog to drink.

i'm assuming you're talking about ircher here.
do you think it's ai for him to act as such?
~rh

SON OF A BITCH

[Bell]

Forget it.

Tldr: Yes and no, it was in reference to Titus, not Ircher.
Insert Ircher meta. I think he's goal oriented when he isn't getting himself killed by trolling and not knowing where people's tolerance lines are.

Ate my post twice. smh.

[Bell]

Forget it.

Tldr: Yes and no, it was in reference to Titus, not Ircher.
Insert Ircher meta. I think he's goal oriented when he isn't getting himself killed by trolling and not knowing where people's tolerance lines are.

Ate my post twice. smh.

In reference to this game, there's a point to what Ircher is doing and it's probably AI, I just don't know how to interpret what he's doing. What was funny to me is that unless I misread what he wrote, his recent response to why he thought I might be scum is that when you controlled for scum v town roll rates it would probably be 50/50 or, in other words, it would be completely random. It was a very weird way to try to justify why they leaned scum on it. Rather, the conclusion doesn't fit their own words.But maybe I misread what they were saying. Back to paper.

[Bell]

I have been trying to interpret every player's accusation of me and their defenses from other players pointing out where the math doesn't work out and trying to sift between which ones seem plausible and which ones seem like scum.

I've spoken about pretty much everybody that has taken a position.
I am scum hunting. Just because it's not in a neat reads list doesn't mean it's not there, and just because I don't know which ones are town and which ones are scum doesn't mean I'm afraid to take a position it just means I don't know.

[Bell]

I think Laplacian is off. Portrait I tend to find scummy.
I naturally hate Hu Tao's current play.
Titus is off: They're sheeping saying they have multiple theories but didn't answer when I asked them what theories they had or how me dying would help with that or why I seemed like a good elimination based on a perspective slip. I know they're weird, but this is veering into burden of proficiency and they are not jumping over it.
Pooky: BOP. they have one page left.
Ircher: has their own excuses see recent page. It's unclear to me if they're choosing a political landscape, there have been a lot of players that have approached this game with really poor takes so I'm finding it hard to figure out which ones I should actually BOP and which one's I should not. Ircher said it was 50/50 controlling for roll numbers, so there's a big question mark toward why they lean scum.
Relativisitic: Same, leaned scum into a caution preach into you're right Dunn!
Already wrote about Dunnstral and my mixed feelings of them correcting for their interpretation and being generally accurate. It's weird seeing someone cut through the bullshit and articulate themselves better than I could. Maybe they're informed, maybe they had a good opening.
Lemon: Their positioning is unique, it doesn't come off as scummy to me. Some of their approach reminds me specifically of townie things I've seen players or myself do in the past. I'm not sure what advantage they gain by approaching people's reads of me by saying that Pooky's reasoning sucks and changing position on it.
Luffy: I dunno. My patience is running out but I'm not really reading into them. there's only so much focus I can have and they're just kind of randomly voting people. It's normal for me not to focus on everyone.
FB: Characterized my play correctly, their movement or engagement and how they're engaging feels very similar to their town game.

[Bell]

doctor drew is background and I'm just annoyed again. But I dunno.
LTO is slightly off, how the game is engaging with them, how they're engaging with the game. I don't understand why they're drawing people into treating them like they're new, I don't understand why their attention is being placed where it is or intentions. I tend not to let players go by that fill in that sort of "aw shucks, I'm new at this" and "I am a person who hunts, look at me and my statements that show I am hunting and I am relatively straightforward, I have nothing to hide" stereotype that doesn't actually mean anything or make them more scum than anyone else. Hell, they just end up being town. But it's nagging me.
Maid Cafe: I'm just trying to figure out if they're scum off to the side being amused or town curious and trying to correct for personality. Rather, I can't decide.
HSP: Have not looked at them deeply, their initial posts seemed kind of vacuous and unfamiliar to me. They;re developing into something moe traditional and easier to read, but I haven't been focusing n them.
SK: Needs to post more. They do a thing each time they're here. But not very fast. It's minimally responsive, but it doesn't hit wrong.

[Bell]

I don't think I've absorbed a single LT post. They started posting, butmy eyes glazed.

paperpaperpaper get off the game and go back to the paper Bell.

Well that was gun to head reads from Bell town.
I expect my reads will be more nuanced tomorrow when I actually look at the game and not just get offended and go into a doom spiral of omgus.

[Bell]

14 posts Pooky.

[Bell]

It's slightly refreshing being accused of antispew instead of scummy fence sitting.

[Bell]

They're going to put you there because you deserve pressure for not existing as other players go up, players that aren't doing anything tend to go down. It's a rat race for scum and even Pooky scum knows that.
Next question

[Bell]

Why are you voting me before catching up all the way

[Bell]

I was trying to get them, RT, to answer me on their initial position, it sounds like it was some kind of abstract story or common sense rumor that doesn't really hold up to scrutiny nor did they need to approach my claimthat way in the first place because it's not really a close enough comparison to a miller claim to fit. it's an open question that I don't think they ever responded to and it doesn't make sense to me.

[Bell]

Mine.

[Bell]

*drum roll*

[Bell]

Hu tao, the problem is that you said you'd catch up soon and then you went through a full work day. Which wasn't really soon. You should have just said after work.

[Bell]

Yeah, you probably should have looked at the vote count before you voted me. that wasn't very considerate. Or thought out.

[Bell]

Pooky, if you could be so kind, can I see you make an effort to read me. using my posts this game and then a case.
I'd like to see one. You don't have to of course. But I wanna see you genuinely try and I want to see if you get it right.
Or at least, if you're scum it would interesting to see you make it all up...Well actually you don't have to if you're scum I've seen it before. This isn't even that far off from the usual for scum you. You did make the I can read Bell easily and sort them post. In the last 3-4 games together.

[Bell]

It would be funny if I was wrong about Lemon, but really not feeling that. Then again I should actually read.
But Paper that I am ignoring with *checks time* 4 hours left. You can do this tomorrow Bell.
Let go.

*sigh*.

[Bell]

I'd say of those reads, 3 have content and while they obviously state they have zero interest in explaining themselves. they explained themselves, but it's really very preciously little to go off of.
If everyone did that nobody would be able to reliably win. So it's vaguely anti-town and sort of just a riff off charisma, fuck your logic I have nakama.

Or something.

[Bell]

Bell, can you do a readslist? Take a position on anyone?

why are you giving him hints lol

I wanted to see how long he could go on without scumhunting

It's not hints gosh darn it. It's getting associatives.

associatives from how people behave around a caught scum are much more useful than any associatives that originate from said caught scum

Maybe but why not get as much data as possible.

@Bell, I think my thoughts on theories are pretty laid out. Not case level yet but still there.

Flipping you would help me judge them.

Your associative and vote reading have never observably worked beyond randomness. So not only am I town and have little interest in seeing you win off my death(I'd still be around but), but I also know that statistically, this will get us no closer to winning if you're town because it doesn't really seem to work for you.

[Bell]

Pooky, if you could be so kind, can I see you make an effort to read me. using my posts this game and then a case.
I'd like to see one. You don't have to of course. But I wanna see you genuinely try and I want to see if you get it right.
Or at least, if you're scum it would interesting to see you make it all up...Well actually you don't have to if you're scum I've seen it before. This isn't even that far off from the usual for scum you. You did make the I can read Bell easily and sort them post. In the last 3-4 games together.

since this is a formal request I will write up exactly why I think you are obviously mafia

Cool.

[Bell]

Oh, I do. I just haven't said anything about it because, obviously they're interweaving their takes at a much better more detailed level and they posted a commitment that they would drop it and try with WIM and so on at a later time, while Joyboy has made no such commitment.

[Bell]

Hu tao, you can't posible not realize you're picking and choosing posts.
I mind melded right after Maid did by saying the same thing and had not read their posts at the time but it was ignored.
Likewise you ignored Pooky's read list that was also basically an activity read's list.

why are you approaching the game in a way that has these obvious discrepancies?

[Bell]

I've made that post as scum. It's something I generally get worried about, I'm not always right with it but it always gets my goat, even though it shouldn't. Because it obviously doesn't consistently work or needs to be tweaked to work.*shrug*

[Bell]

wow way to steal my thunder i'm back to striking and refusing to work

No. Get back on that Horse.



Sure I'll go do that paper, but I feel bad if you're town and you don't get an opportunity to reach a correct interpretation of me.

I do pretty much agree with Maid that I shouldn't be the elimination today.

I was also kind of hoping that LTO had day investigated me and was about to cut them down.
But alas. Reality disappoints.

[Bell]

I'm sitting at that there are between 3 and 5 scum. Because frankly. I never could be bothered to read the set up.

[Bell]

...I already stated that I've been trying to interpret people's play around me. This is demonstrably what I've tried to do. Just because you pretend the posts don't exist doesn't mean it does. I made one about those that were defending me and casting aspersions and paranoia there way when I have no benefit to doubting people that are ostensibly taking my side.

and then I made a gun to head reads list, which you tried to shut down, which is typical for scum you.
This has been a song and dance we've done like 3 times.

[Bell]

Hu tao, you can't posible not realize you're picking and choosing posts.
I mind melded right after Maid did by saying the same thing and had not read their posts at the time but it was ignored.
Likewise you ignored Pooky's read list that was also basically an activity read's list.

why are you approaching the game in a way that has these obvious discrepancies?

Wasn't pookys list the first I called out as fake?

Huh. Well is it fake? What's the difference between a fake reads wall meant to pressure people you don't have a read on and a fake reads wall that is antispew or scummy. Day one, it's pretty common.

[Bell]

I don't think I see what you see at all Hu Tao. Our perspectives are very different. You could be scum I guess.
Or you could just be seeing the game from a different perspective. I think Lemon is town. I could be wrong.

* think I'm just going to have to make a promise with myself to stop posting for the night after responding to ETO* I would be being a whole lot more effectual if I stopped nd just reread the game and posted more. But I still, don't think you're paying attention if you think I haven't been responding or reading people.

*tunnel vision*

[Bell]

1. 4 scum. it doesn't really matter for the purposes of hunting at this point how many scum there are as long as there is more than 1.
2. I think this was stated in the set up. But i don't really recall it, I didn't read it closely. It's probably safe to assume so. I dislike multiball because it's impossible for some players to be differentiated, or rather it can get really difficult.
3. I dunno. i'm not sure how this helps to keep it mind right now.
4. Dunno.
5. Don't care.
6. Elaborate? I don't get it.
7. This isn't an assumption. It's explicitely stated what our win condition is and it's to kill all the mafia.
8. This isn't correct. The point is to reach majority. Staying alive helps with that but not always. This is common sense.

9. Pooky says I don't get frustrated as scum and I feel all guilty. He's not wrong but basically, he completely ignored his own writing about that when I started fitting that frame because it was probably inconvenient. Or they just don't change their mind good.

10. An opinion. One that with careful reading doesn't make sense. I have pushed against people that have scum read me and tried to point out the flaws and tried to figure out if these flaws were because they're scum or because they're flawed. Failing to reach a conclusion is normal for me.

11. I have a feeling I'm going to fail to understand what you're getting at with these, given, well. The first claim I did specifically because I wanted to be constructive and work toward the town win con by working with and communicating my abilities to other people. And the second was to correct a misconception in the perspective of Pooky about what I was getting at. I don't deny it was dumb to claim my second role, but it doesn't really do any harm either. Well unless you think a tree stump is something scum would do. I really want to emphasize what you think or say is convenient, isn't convenient, because it fails the ockham's razor test. It is not a simple explanation for a post, it's a more complicated one that requires more cogs. This sort of complexity has made it so few doubt that I'm a tree stump because it's verifiable. *both* of the abilities I've claimed are verifiable. Which itself is rare and unusual.
12. Titus's argument was that it was better that I would die because of it. Likewise, using logical fallacies or misinterpreting someone is not scummy. It's just what it says on the tin, it's a fallacy.
13. Is it discrediting someone to point out that a scum slip wasn't a scum slip and that I've been, in the past accused of making scum slips when I was town and this is another example of that? Is it discrediting someone to say that if something is close to a 1:1 ratio of town to scum it doesn't make sense why you're scum reading me? Is it discrediting someone to ask why claiming out the gate is scummy, have another player come in and then supplement why it wasn't scummy get the player that thought it was scummy to agree and then watch as other players carry the water of an argument that the originator retracted as *being* scummy with no comment or acknowledgement that they did so? Is it scummy to laugh at someone for saying "That sure is convenient that you have that role to explain away that post you got called out on" when it's my actual role?
I don't think so!

14. This is normal, you're confusing me being annoying which you've already said you were tired with, with an alignment. I post a lot. When pressured *I respond a lot* and * i omgus a lot* and I navel gaze a lot. This is unusual, but it's not unusual *for me* As are contentless posts mixed with not so contentless posts. I get called out for saying nothing all the time. This isn't a secret.

15. yeah, I would pretty much never read those rules and come up with a fake claim. It's just my actual claim. Multiple players know I suck at fake claiming. Uh I think. If you'd like I could actually point out where I made a post about wanting to be a tree stump really badly I think almost 3-4 years ago. It's that far back. I really liked the idea of being untouchable and being free just to hunt the whole game without the responsibility of voting wrong. Please note that when pressured this is what I devolve into, so you can see the appeal for me.
But as people have mentioned, this doesn't matter. I asked for the role before I knew what I would role. The point is that my intent behind that post was a childish "heh, I can totally harass you if you fuck up and misread me Pooky" and that became I knew his alignment. Even though the perspective itself, is just making the assumption that he's town and doesn't make sense from the perspective of me being scum because, obviously I have no plans to harass Pooky for saying they suck if I were scum. The whole thing just kind of falls apart when viewed from 4 or 5 different angles. There are more incorrect angles than correct ones, and Pooky either chose the incorrect one because they're scum or because they thought what worked for enchant would work for someone who is very, very different from enchant.
16. The strawman argument does not work, because Titus does not and has not pretty much ever listened to me before. The argument that they would listen to me, is, in the context of our previous play history *laughable* They ignored me both times I said math blade was scum *and* ignored me once when I said Math blade was scum while I had a cop guilty on them and could throw perfectly accurate cases about them, I couldn't claim the cop guilty but my arguments that were correct, weren't persuasive to them. The bonuses they're talking about aren't bonuses. Their argument that they can read off my interactions with others and make accurate associations doesn't pan out because Titus and I have been over that their method doesn't seem to pass muster from random chance (I'm not saying, I'm better, I'm not I'm just saying Titus isn't an especially accurate scum hunter) It just doesn't appeal to me. And from my perspective it's a terrible call not only for those reasons but also because I'm town and they way they initially worded it was that even if I *was town* it was better that I'm a tree stump than not, while thinking I was scum. I'm going to object to that.
17. 247. Is an obvious joke and has nothing to do with your alignment. You can see why I think you're straight forward or faking being straight forward. Usually you're just town.
18. Reasoning is bad regardless of whether someone is scum or not. You can be perfectly wrong about someone's motivations and kill scum, and perfectly right about someone while bussing. Reasoning is separate. Pooky did point out that I was caught for the wrong reasons which is jumping off of you. But the thing is, there was in your initial post a glaring omission that pointed to you not seeming to know that people were JOATs, which was deeply confusing, because the alternative was that your argument was that it was convenient for me to claim a role as an excuse instead of other plays that make much more sense in context for scum to do. It's more lies to juggle when the truth will do. It's a weird assumption to make.
19. Yes, I don't think that me claiming my second role there showed any anti-town motivation and was not some get out of jail free card, at best it's deeply confusing, but you just interpreted it as scummy. Which I still don't get.

If an apple is by an apple tree, you don't say that sure is convenient, you say, "that makes sense"

Anyway. Done. You promised Bell.

Bye.

[Bell]

*shrug* my third ability is a novice 1 shot alibi.
I investigate a player and find out every player that they didn't visit.
This gets more powerful with time.

My bus driver role also has a neighbor component. So I'm kind of like a weird double jail keeper that can talk to that player at night.
I was considering spite locking Pooky into it and then seeing if they could post 1000 pages and convince me they weren't scum over a night phase. But, really I was just going to carefully consider who I wanted to talk with over that time. since, I'm not actually vindictive, I just pretend I will be.

[Bell]

LTO's scumcase on Bell in 761 is airtight so the "upward trend" I was seeing was fake

don't really care about bell's ability to keep posting if bell has zero town mindset at all

VOTE: Bell

-TL

It's airtight?
How.

[Bell]

Hey, I don't actually know what the role is called.

I target someone during the day. Both of us are untargetable, we both get neighborized, and neither of us can use any other abilities.
If you think that claiming the neighbor part of that role would be the townie thing to do out the gate. Well, I disagree.

[Bell]

I'm only claiming that part because I'm about to be killed.

[Bell]

It does not make me look like scum!
Jesus!

[Bell]

804 bothers me. But they can't lack self-awareness that they would just post the same as scum every time they're scum right.

[Bell]

Because it says nothing and it's saccharine and they're usually more of a fire cracker.
Then again, I was told that was the exception.
But yeah. They barely exist.

[Bell]

What about that post points to their alignment being town?

[Bell]

If you guys want me to live, assuming I'm not already dead you will have to hard to defend me.
It's up to you But I'll still be around even if I'm dead, awkwardly not talking about how airtight the case against me was, and how Pooky can totally read me.

[Bell]

Of course that probably won't work, I am starting to just think Pooky is scum.

@TL: ...Okay. But that's nuts to me.

[Bell]

If you guys want me to live, assuming I'm not already dead you will have to hard to defend me.
It's up to you But I'll still be around even if I'm dead, awkwardly not talking about how airtight the case against me was, and how Pooky can totally read me.

but if you live how will i get to shove it in peoples faces that i was right

Because I'll literally be here, still talking in the thread and doing it instead.
It's my right, you can't take it from me.

[Bell]

let's say LTO's case proves that Bell is acting anti-town regardless of alignment

therefore, Bell is scum even if Bell is town

-TL

It doesn't, an anti-town action is one that benefits the scum team. They pretty much said that I hadn't done anything townie, that I made logical fallacies, and I was annoying. All possibly true from their perspective (relativism is fun), but none of them actually anti-town.

[Bell]

Well of course it's easier for them just to see a flip.
But it's against my win condition to just roll over and let them fuck up.
Only I am allowed to fuck up and misread people.

To be fair, I mean Pooky is either scum here or they claimed that I was an easy sort and proceeded to fail miserably at that.
And that deserves awkward silence and pretending to be a tree stump, silently judging them, but not saying a word.

[Bell]

I really don't think I'm a good lim here though.
I know it's convenient and all for my last ability to be a 1-shot novice alibi guy, since I'm basically a more powerful one shot cop that conveniently gets to live one more day.

But here we are.

[Bell]

..Because it matters because I like to win games of mafia and being able to to use investigative abilities reveals alignment information that I can then share with the rest of the town to narrow down the possibilities.

[Bell]

..Because it matters because I like to win games of mafia and being able to to use investigative abilities reveals alignment information that I can then share with the rest of the town to narrow down the possibilities.

It matters to u.
Consider ur audience for a minute dummy.

Everyone here has a power role, each one of us should have roles we sent to the mod that is closeish enough to what we asked. Ur role isn't going to be alignment indicative. Or it shouldn't be anyways for good game design. In fact the fact we all asked for our roles make them less indicative imo.

So u thinking u got some very important role is just cringe imo
No one cares and are only going to use it as a vector for calling u scummy lol

This is a put down that doesn't actually acknowledge my thinking. It says more about you than it does about me.

[Bell]

I get that you think I'm being arrogant or whatever. But I'm not saying I'm special. I'm not even saying that my roles are alignment indicative. In fact, I never said that and said the opposite, I said that my roles are likely to be true, not that they're townie. I said that how I'm releasing those rules *was* done from an attempt to be protown and the other was because I'm stupid and used it to explain my perspective.

I think my last ability is *useful* not more useful, or better than other people's roles.

[Bell]

I am a big bully, very true.

Oh c'mon you know I don't think that. That doesn't even really fit with what you're saying. hell usually putting someone down for having a big head isn't associated with bullying but done from a modest place of care. Pride before the fall and so on and so forth.

[Bell]

It's awkward to watch someone get arrogant and then cry when they hurt themselves.
Some people think they deserve it, but I just feel bad for them. We all get excited, and get a big head sometimes.

[Bell]

eh, it's late and I've been defending myself in an unhealthy way for hours.
My head isn't screwed on right.

[Bell]

That was better. Thanks.
Still.
More please.

[Bell]

#10: I I'm as lost on you on role spec, I'm still not even sure if it was a good idea for me to claim on my first role how I did. To note, I didn't read your post before posting and it wasn't in response to your post that I began claiming. I don't particularly make much of a player starting with role speculation and I don't have a problem with how they've approached the game at this point. Especially because they're new particularly to this community, I would expect them to touch on mechanics early, that's actually how I played my first large theme. I role spec'd got piled on for it then got turned around. Kind of wish Pooky or Dunnstral had commented on this, since they're not bad at this kind of thing, though I know that both of them would probably say that we should wait a few days.
#12: I never can distinguish between nervous hi's shit I rolled scum I need to post and hi, I'm here, hello.
#13: Forth coming. cool. ~0.3 town points.
#20: This earned and then resulted in me retracting a town point. I was going to say the same thing but I was driving home at this moment, so I couldn't say shit. I felt bad.
22# Expectation controlling. Dunno. Some scum do this when they don't want to be pressured. But it's...Well, it's garbage and unhelpful for me to think that way.
23-24# pooky being Pooky.
25# Wholesome.
26# As mentioned I think their internal timer made sense here, I would have a clock running on Bell posting. But in retrospect, I think they were just trying to appear to be egging me on. It's hard to know where instinct and going through the motions scum pooky is going to meta play on me. Or what that's going to look like, I know in general they'll pressure me early, that they'll play the Bell expert, that if they're town they'll be a level of doubt that they'll hide, that if they're scum they may have (but are aware of) a lack of willingness to form many reads and sort of lack a level of adroitness. This is a genuine scum point of Pooky's later, while they like focus in on kill one person they do usually have takes outside of it, but I consider how they've formulated reads so far to be heavily barren. LTO never responded to my pointing out that none of Pooky's takes in the early game were actual reads but things that Pooky does as either alignment *tm* and Pooky never denied it. But I don't find it strange, pretty much everyone drops observations or doesn't respond to everything, I didn't read some pages while still posting.
27# Wish they elaborated but understand why they wuldn't wnt to elaborate around role spec, but rather, I try to avoid that kind of thing, but they left it with an open question toward me which is 0.001 townie since reach out. Dunno how they got from neutral to I think it's scummy what they did. But I've harped enough about that.
29# Not sure what their thinking was there, but I didn't really mind or care.
31# IRcher starts with a basic question. It's fine.
32# Buddy Titus. Friendly Titus. I don't make much of it. Could just be their way to get town read, but they usualy just come off as weird as either alignment, so still in chill and relaxed Titus is town titus.
34# Sure. This is something to look at later down the line. Nice part of my ability assuming someone can't counteract it is that I will be here for that moment.
35# Pooky cult, Pooky probably doesn't know but I tend to scum read them for Pooky cult building even though they do it every game. I do wonder if they can be sorted just by when and how they choose to pooky cult build. It would be fine to do, but I'll never have the time for it.
36#: Scum claiming out the gate. In character, nothing unusual. Always amusing to watch.
38#: Wouldn't do this. But can see where they're coming from but just pattern association and general excitement. I haven't played with TL much and their perspective is wonky to me, it's clear it's just *them* as a person but the absolutisms and the kind of crazy role games they do, I don't really know what to make of it, but it is an explainer for why they focused on my claim and began there, it's their comfort zone.
39# Hmm. Dunno. Might be a thing they do I've never noticed or might be purposeful.
41# Still don't get it.
42# Dunno how Pooky works FB as either alignment, but they've clearly started with this post.
43: Yep, see the familiar is what prompted them and then they reveal it here. It's a clear line of thought. It's not unique for town to do, but it's consistent. the "very concerning" thing is a pattern, it depends where you work and what you do, but in health care at least it's a lot more of a warning light than you'd think from the wording it means they're imminently about to give you a hard time, it's a softer way of saying I'm judging you and you need to explain yourself before I do something to punish you. Doesn't really have to do with the game but it's another quirk. Well, it's just a small tool in their tool shed.
44# They actually said wholesome in this post, so they know they're being intentionally wholesome and trying to communicate that through their words. While it reveals intentional, that I'm not used to Titus really doing, I don't really find AI, everyone plays a role. Not just scum.
#45: Probably he only had to type I before the rest of the sentence auto populated and he pressed send. It's rout FB posting.
#46: I'm not sure if Pooky is scum claiming here like he usually does for fun occassionally as either alignment ut usually they're more direct I forgot what the scum team were called, union busters or something, but it's interesting that they went with corrupt union leader, I don't think they were or at least I don't think they were given that flavor if they rolled scum.
#49: Fun.

[Bell]

#50: True.
#51: Meh should've engaged with them earlier. Guess: They said RVS claim as if they were doubting it was a real claim and then sort of wobbling on it by saying because it was RVS, there wasn't much point judging it. To me it came off as a sort of awkward attempt to communicate with me. But I'm not sure Lich was actually doing that here and I guess if they didn't it just comes off as...a fence sit. Which I don't think much of.
56# This is the same person(TL), coming back and making a take on it. I think it makes more sense that they didn't know what to make of it, and then made something of it on their own, than that HST prompted them into it or that a scum partner discussed it over with them. I don't know TL well though so maybe they panicked or are impulsive. I find that less likely though.
59# I fully explained my role later, I do think in general being quiet about the neighborizing part of my ability is the right thing to do as town, It's the kind of thing that players that I think are better than me would do. They'd probably not have been forthright about the claim at first, but we have disagreements about what it means to be town.
60# First appeal to authority, Pooky shifts into Bell appeal to authority later. As mentioned, I don't think logical fallacies are scummy and this post itself probably isn't serious. At least, there needs to be more to the circumstances around the logical fallacy to be AI. Obviously, this post is not that.
62# Sets off my uncharitable interpretation alarm. Sometimes as scum I just say fuck it and make a bad faith take, so that tripped them into possible scum territory. I also omgus, but I also have other thinks and thunks.
63# Seems a bit awkward, almost an overextension into too quick of a benefit of a doubt. But I dunno what Pookie's trying to do. I'm not them.
64# Contrarian dog.
68# Hmm. Ircher changed positions on this later. From wait and see, to I think it has merit. I'd like to hear them explain what changed. I think it's fairly easy to explain away.
71# Don't get it. Pooky is affirming TL here and this is in line with what they want to do, i.e., push me.
73~74# Jokes, maybe FB is half serious. But impossible to know.

[Bell]

I'm in Bell tower. I'm already a tree stump so I'm trying to work through the game in my own way. Just ignore it.

[Bell]

#78: Lie, Pooky feels bad when he blows it. I tend to think they're honest after games end.
#79: Makes that toy squeak sound. Feels good.
#80: FB feels better here, they're kind of more negative when they're scum. If I recall they tend to join games to play with or really appreciate playing with certain players. FB usually corrects me and I tend to be incorrect about my FB perspectives. But it looks right. Feel free to correct.
#81: Completely missed wholesome Titus ad campaign sponsored by Titus, paid for by the Titus Committee made for Titus, by Titus, For Titus.
#83: hmm. Drew Post, just lock town's FB here. Not enough Drew data to draw an opinion. Drew does like to talk to FB first and early based on 2 whole data points.
#84: FB copy paste job. Love em'.
#90: I am conf biasing on FB because I think this show of insecurity just feels more like town insecurity than scum insecurity. Even though I know that other people don't have my hang ups or hesitations on scum claim joking.
98-99# Seen it.
101# TL gets townie vibes from a rout Pooky joke. Don't feel it.
103# I find L_G's response to my are you scum question to be unreadable given. I would consider is slightly pokerfaced and defensive, but town and scum get defensive. It's an L_G data point and a small one at that.
106# Eh. L_G's FB post is a throw away. could have been spontaneous, spur of the movement, may indicate anxiety or impulse control. Super minor. Can't put it to use.
107# Titus votes RT, I don't find it unusual that Titus is still messing around.
#108-109: Always slightly interesting seeing these kind of paired posts. Could indicate Brocoli had a thought for a funish to them theme post and then took a look to see who's who and who they should vote and then voted a minute later. Might be an indication of their priorities (Fun first, scum hunting later), or less charitably, they're more interested in how they appear than to hunting. It's something, but neutral, something to percholate on I guess.
#110: LTO post: Feels townie to me. I talk about open or straightforward communication and this is an example of being forth coming in what appears to be from a good place.
113# Titus comes along in what might be the same spirit. For whatever reason I tend to say that the one with the initiative is townie but the second person (or in titus's case third) doesn't get points for it. But I don't actually think that's ever lead to anything productive. So I should consider just giving them another town point.
114# LTO's post makes sense. I think them asking around to see if maybe they can town bin me and not have to work for it is more of a town thing than a scum thing. Could be a scum interest check though. I find the first interpretation more plausible.
115# Honestly, Brocoli here reads like bored scum me. I get flowery as scum sometimes, and this looks like it. But I really think it's wrong headed for me to think this way about someone I don't know well yet. still putting it down.
116# Joyboy's first post is a zzzzz, I dunno what kind of reaction they were thinking of getting or if it was flavor or their own view point about how a sleeping Luffy would enter a scene or if they were just tired or if it's night and they're in bed or, or, or. It's limitless no point reading into it.
#118: Not sure what perspective Pooky is coming from here. They're sharing, are they excited about their read that they think is a slam dunk, are they just trying to keep the pressure on one measured step at a time? could be multivariate. There's a lot there, but something in my stomach and head makes it difficult to sift through a town Pooky interpretation.
#119: Ircher: Well, that's incorrect. I'm not lacking energy this game.
#120: Drew mentioning the obvious and then speculating that maybe they can talk to the mod about it. But Drew's played a lot of mafia, they know that won't fly so why are they even mentioning it or think that they would entertain it. It's stalling I guess, but it's kind of lazy stalling that I'm not sure they'd have the gall to do as scum. It annoys me though. But that, I think, is just Drew. They will likely only respond if they respond at all to the end of this post.
#121: LTo pokes at and votes Pooky for shading me in so many words. It's a girlscout post. They're correct on every measure. Pooky will just say they're pressuring me while trying to re-conciliate if they're not partners and it's LTO town poking them. But I think 3 out of 4 Pookies do that. I'm not even sure there's a universe where Pooky pushes back at them.
#122: Pooky Translation: I am pressuring them. or: It's meta! But they never backed down on it which I still associate mainly with scum Pooky.
#124: its funny how Ircher's tone at the beginning of this game comes off, it's just simple straightforward questioning when they're more sophisticated than that. they come off as guileless, when anyone that has played with them, knows it isn't true, so I'm not sure who it's for or why they don't think anyone will call them out on it. I'm not sure anyone ever really did. It's interesting, but not scummy.

[Bell]

#125: Joyboy votes LTO, naked vote. there's a reason for it, but search me what the reason is or how they're hoping to come off.
#126: Pooky does the associative thing it's very normal Pooky. It's pretty typical for them to scum bin one player and keep saying they're scum and then poke around and make associative with other players accusing their bin target and someone else of being scum together or saying so and so can't be partners with the bin. I never really got what Pooky gets from it, but they do it as either alignment I don't remember them slam dunking with it, but it's an ingrained habit.
#127: I find this post by Ircher to be quite honest and helpful. 0.0002 town points. Not sure if they should have also done more there but whatever.
128#: This is my preference for how to word a question to someone I'm curious about. But it shouldn't mean a town point just because it hits what I like.
#129: Brocoli reading from the town manual. Walk the walk or simply talking the talk? Bleh I cringe just writing that, but it gets my thought across.
#130: Pooky explained this to me so I feel like I'm just religitating an old point about negativity, I think they explained that they'd rather die than behave toward certain people in certain ways, so this is just buddy not-AI pooky. They will glump onto you and make you a Pooky Puppet, but there's kind of a weird ethos attached to the manipulation which makes it murky. Or at least, I genuinely don't think I could or should go after them for buddying people.
131#: Consistent with a later posts/reads. From titus, they voted Joyboy here. Nothing really concrete, I think their argument is on the tin, that they think they're being anti-town or unhelpful, but they don't explicitly say that and use unwholesome as code instead. Indirect, don't think it means much.
#132: Maid entrance. Interesting choice of entrance lines since the usual is would you like food, a drink or me? Ufu. just spliced out. I guess I hate it because power dynamics. Let it not be said I don't ruin everything.
#133: LTO: This is a really good post and I could've written it. 1 town point. Maybe 2.
#134: Pooky cult post sucks more than I thought, but it might just have been bad timing on Pooky town's part. I know Pooky cares what LTO is doing. But they're going through the Pooky motions. Can't tell.
#137: maid votes Pooky. Makes sense to me. Not sure if they're paying attention to LTO, using LTO as cover for what they think seems like a decent place to start as scum on town Pooky, or if they agreed or say something else that Pooky did or were just responding to Pooky's request for Coffee. I find 1 or 2 to be more likely. It's maria and not Beeboy and Maria's a player that I think does well from my limited experience with them.
#141: This interaction feels kind of awkward but I think all I'll accomplish by saying it is slightly annoying Joyboy while getting no closer to their alignment. Also it's kind of clear they've played with a lot of us, and they outright hinted they've played with me before. so maybe this isn't awkward. It's actually, kind of hard to tell.
#145: Ircher helpdesk. NAI. Appreciate it though.
#147: FB's half joke/accusation of Maria is fine here. It might be just a misinterpretation of a theme, but there's really no harm in poking at Maria this way. Still kind of straightforewardish town play (sorry FB).
#148: Doctor Drew's tone is different than everyone's above. about this coffee and maid thing. Once again, don't know if it means anything. Maybe nerves, maybe clumsy, we all come up with things, some things that we come up with don't fit the shape of the social setting. Yeah. NAI, maybe think about it later.

Done for now.

[Bell]

Hey, I don't actually know what the role is called.

I target someone during the day. Both of us are untargetable, we both get neighborized, and neither of us can use any other abilities.
If you think that claiming the neighbor part of that role would be the townie thing to do out the gate. Well, I disagree.

I'm only claiming that part because I'm about to be killed.

What is it called on your role pm? What do you mean you don't know what it is called?

You become untargetable when? During the night? During the same day? Does this ability stop you from being eliminated?

Night-day witness protection.
I know what my role does. But didn’t know if my requests were unique roles or had been invented before and had a name.
During the night. I use it during the day before day end and then it activates when night begins. It protects me and the other player from being targeted, we’re in a neighborhood.

[Bell]

To note I had asked, if I would be out during the next day phase too and vulnerable during the night but they never replied.
But I think it goes like this:

Day 1- target dun.
Night 1- activates we’re both out. In a neighborhood.
Day 2: we’re both still out.
Night 2: we’re both vulnerable.
Day: 3 we’re free. The neighborhood probably breaks.

[Bell]

The other role is a 1-shot novice alibi.
I learn who my target has not visited since the game began. In terms of how powerful it is. I don’t know. For me explanatory power for what happened in a game is more useful and you get more details the later you use it. It’s probably nebulous for other people. to me, I like it because it gives you a sense for what a player was doing overall.

Last is just a tree stump. If I die. I can still talk for the rest of the game without a vote.

[Bell]

LOCK UP POOKY.

Then tell him ur not trapped in there with him. HE IS TRAPPED IN THERE WITH YOU

This is the funniest option, yes.

[Bell]

In retrospect the ability might have synergy with time gated abilities.
But I suck and it just occurred to me rn.
Nobody bit though, so might not be a thing.

Good night.

[Bell]

Lemon town.
LTO town.
FB moderate town.
Titus weak town.
Ircher miniscule town lean.
Weak laplacian scum lean.
Weak drew scum lean.
Pooky scum lean.

[Bell]

I'm in Bell tower. I'm already a tree stump so I'm trying to work through the game in my own way. Just ignore it.

The mod has let us have note pts ffs. Stop grandstanding with gibberish.

I will honor this. But I’d like for you to give more reads.

[Bell]

if i havent sorted you yet and you think bell is town i am ready to talk about it

CAN BELL MAKE 160+ POSTS AS WOLF?

Yes. It’s one of the things I try really hard to do because you could indeed sort me merely by post count 2 years ago. It wasn’t cool.

[Bell]

I am in camp HSP is vibe town.
I asked for more reads Titus. Not the same reads you already stated with nothing new in them.

[Bell]

I’ll just continue to list in my notes PT.
I can do better than vibes on HSP, probably.

[Bell]

It feels like you can't justify a townread there.

There's nothing that feels good in HST's iso.

So I've been continuing in my notes PT with that read wall. but it's vital that I respond to 157#: my shades negate Pooky's shades.

You gunna respond to my request for more reads that aren't the reads you posted before I asked you for more reads or you good, Titus?

[Bell]

I'm in Bell tower. I'm already a tree stump so I'm trying to work through the game in my own way. Just ignore it.

The mod has let us have note pts ffs. Stop grandstanding with gibberish.

I will honor this. But I’d like for you to give more reads.

[Bell]

I'm asking for more reads. You know, the thing you do when you hunt for the scums and figure out who the towns are and then write what you think.

[Bell]

It's an open ended question Titus. I'm trying to give you room to explain your interpretation of people's play however you like and letting you pick and choose who you specifically want to talk about because I'm interested in where your attention is placed.

[Bell]

It's an open ended question Titus. I'm trying to give you room to explain your interpretation of people's play however you like and letting you pick and choose who you specifically want to talk about because I'm interested in where your attention is placed.

My attention is on following the expression God gave you two ears and one mouth.

I'm working with Pooky and LTO at the moment while bouncing my SRs off of people.

Does this work with a judge? You're giving me your interpretation/narrative of your own play, not your interpretation of other people's play.

[Bell]

For Drew lean scum. I want to see if Drew keeps his implicit promise in a post but his iso is vapid.

It's boring, but I'll take it.

[Bell]

and then I exited from the fight undercutting your point.

[Bell]

When I get a solid case, then I launch into murder mode.

What. When. No I don't care. Moon Titus. Mysterious.
i'm going back to posting notes in my PT.

VOTE: Drew

[Bell]

Iso Drew and tell me they deserve to live that doesn't involve you being masons with them.

[Bell]

You are higher on my townreads now, thanks

I wanted to comment on this post because it kind of veers into something I enjoy about mafia. get ready for pop psychology.

1. This interaction with Lemon and Titus, I think points toward Town Lemon, I know I already town read them and there are other things that point that way that are, I think more objectively accurate, i.e., the claim out of nowhere. However, forgive my abstraction, I'm not a wordsmith.

Do you know that precipice you sit at when making a decision?
Like, when we're deciding whether someone is town or scum there's that point where we aren't sure. Some, or rather I think most players use a gradient in their heads where they lean toward or make multiple decisions about a players actions, kind of evidence building or confirmation bias what have you. But there's an underlying anxiety or instability when in that space before making that decision of whether to lean town or scum on this or that post. I think that their read of Titus leaning into town is because of that destabilization and that need to get out of that anxiety space by creating something more stable. They forced a decision to get out of that space, but I don't think they'd have that anxiety here if they were scum. I don't think they would feel put upon to justify or make meaning out of something they spent time on an interaction on with that, on careful examination didn't say much.

[Bell]

Mine

[Bell]

Damnit.

[Bell]

Iso Drew and tell me they deserve to live that doesn't involve you being masons with them.

good opening in 83

221 is scummy but Drew has towny vibes regardless of alignment so not willing to scumread Drew for that

254 is a towny post

and 794 has town mindset behind it

oh and 853 is a medium risk play



Doctor Drew acts towny regardless of alignment so I kind of have to townread Doctor Drew because I have no mech or deepwolfiness to go off of.

pedit: welp nevermind, that's an associative

frick

-TL

#254: This is a friendly post not an AI post. Being helpful in this way does not advance a win condition. Almost anyone would say the same under these circumstances if they have a mildly level head. They chose to respond to this, when there were other things to respond to. I'm not making an argument, that they should only make the best, most townie post. but it bears repeating that this doesn't advance the game unless TLO is specifically town and TLO is specifically willing to listen or can be persuaded by other people's decisions, in addition they declined to take a position on the interaction itself, instead chalking it up to personality and idiosyncratic play as an explainer. to them. They really took pains to demur on literally any position here.

#794: Eh, the first part is mildly townie, but I'd consider it an undercurrent they sem to be softening their edges and asking questions that are close to benign but a little townie. I don't think "you're different" while talking pains to avoid saying you're scummy is townie. It's just safe play.

#853: no. No it isn't.

[Bell]

No, I get things wrong all the time. Lol.

[Bell]

P much with the attitude Titus has been having and going abt questioning me on justifying my reads, If they were a consistent town they wouldve asked me why i put them higher in their town reads and asked for reasoning same as hst

They didnt thus that post is a lie

Titus: Too many problems. They said they had to go and had 2 minutes. I don't think inconsistency is a scum tell and I think many players are reluctant to bite the hand that says they're town without a good reason. And it's for some of the more dedicated players a conscious decision on whether to go for that ethical consistency or let somethings slide. I can be more consistent as scum (and then really get mad when nobody notices all the effort I made in making shit up!)

Re: 4d, it's fun to experiment and mess around with schemes. But that is a townie thing. It's something I do too though, less often.
On the other hand that intentionality and revealing a hand I've done as scum as some sort of rhetorical trick. Or it seems to have something in it. I don't care to examine it right now, it's probaby voodoo/magical thinking. I don't have much familiarity with the politics of power and appearances.

[Bell]

I did not mean to imply that, I spoke about alignment gradients. From my perspective It was string of interactions for one town lean. So I didn't find it suspicious. For you to make one decision about one interaction. Well, besides denying that the interaction wasn't particularly Townie for Titus in my eyes.

[Bell]

247, taking a break may or may not have questions for Drew. I'm not sure if I should ask them now while it's fresh without having a complete picture or not. Constructive probably to wait but exhausted and also not sure if the questions will be better later given my own limits.

Yeah, I'll try to get it out.

So I'm at multiple inflection points on Drew,
I don't fucking know what inflection means *wikipedia* Ah it means the point when a curve changes, yeah sure that works.

1. So, Drew starts the game by paralleling their play from our previous game together, DefCon 6. In that game they went up to FB and aggressively buddied them, slaved their shot to FB and then couldn't back out when they shot at their scum buddy because, they were worried about my suspicion of them.

Question 1 (221#): There's an obvious town perspective here, Drew think: "While I was scum in the previous game, FB was still right on scum and I think they're town here again or, whatever my history with them: I'm happy to sheep them early. I do not think about or notice that there are similarities to my approach here to the last game and I won't worry about other people's interpretations of that/fail to consider how those similarities may set others off in a negative direction, only considering that hey, I'm making a reference to a previous game some people will get it and I hope they buy my selling of this perspective where I sheep somebody that killed scum last game"
Would Drew not realize that they'd get pushed this way? Did they not have an argument set up to push back against it? Drew is not me, they don't think like I do as mafia where usually I'm just sitting on counter arguments in anticipation of challenges. Not even unusual for me to have that as either alignment really. I guess I'm trying to figure out how self-conscious Drew is and how that self-consciousness manifests in in their scum/town games. For scum Drew I have this interpretation of circumspect neutrality with some missteps, But I don't think I have it yet.
Question 2: Drew does do some of the poking I think their scum game is missing (229, 247, I think some later posts), but in a different manner, namely instead of baiting people, they're throwing shade at them, it doesn't look the same but the effect is similar. They are casually slipping in meta on other players while remaining noncommittal. They are non-committal in multiple posts. *is* Drew usually careful to remain neutral with only the softest of challenges to other players?

[Bell]

I think Drew remembers that they were called out for doing nothing this game, but I'm not sure if their current token attempts to react in real time is them trying to push against it, or if they'd be doing more if they were scum because they'd be more motivated not to step on the same land mine. It's trying to interpret if Drew half-asses their homework and then apply it to Mafia.

*head desk*.

[Bell]

That’s the second time I’ve been blind voted this game.

You know you could accidentally hammer someone and impact the game state negatively, right?

[Bell]

Oh, thank you. *tips hat* ‘s good of you.

[Bell]

No. I’m too busy being grateful they don’t suck as either alignment. It really ruins the game when quick hammers happen.

My brow scrunched up slightly when they said they were doing a catch up post and were voting based on that. There’s no real indicator they weren’t blind voting.

I guess you could say they’re doing due dilligence and the fact that they were aware shows a more cautious approach which could be defensive or anticipatory. But it could also be a personality tell.


Explain your interpretation?

[Bell]

Where did wholesome Titus go.

[Bell]

Drew I will never stop overthinking stuff. But cool. I look forward to you showing me what town Drew looks like. Ircher has slipped to a null read.
(Did I even give a read on Ircher?) and Drew remains the same. Their response is fine, but it didn’t change my mind.

[Bell]

My abilties cause chaos and terror

Those who face my wrath with have clinically insane nightmares. So dw i didn't ignore my own ability to take things in my own hands

I just don't like revealing my cards like some others (looking at Bell here)

As town it is my duty to bring up these things but I have contempt for gotchas. So.
I’ll be around, please explain when you get a chance Lemon! Or if you already did, sorry for missing it!

I can’t tell if Dunn was serious with their early push on Ircher. I’m not complaining, but I can never read that guy.

[Bell]

To be clear, my question is why did you make a statement saying you dislike revealing your cards and then claiming your cards out of nowhere(?)

[Bell]

Let me ask, there’s no explicit mention of duration in the role.

Laplace, walk me through why you think I’m scum this game if you’ve fully caught up. Your flavor writing is getting in the way of providing a clear reason why you’re holding this position.

[Bell]

Oh, you’re asking that I be investigated.
Sure, I don’t care.

It does seem like an extreme waste given how much I’ve written, noise and non-noise. But I won’t complain.

I dunno why people are still having trouble reading me at this point. I thought maybe it’s just because they’re catching up, but, eh.

[Bell]

*tilts head*

1. Could you examine why this particular claim is bad to claim early or how claiming it later would provide town with an advantage?
2. I cannot address this. I was. I was also at work constantly being interrupted and I get distracted by pressure. I did say my posting would clear up over the weekend, and it did. In its way.
3. I can’t think of a meaningful way to engage with this statement that isn’t just asking you to explain why having emotional statement or my particular emotions were scummy or scum aligned.
4. Okay.

5.it sure was but that was part of my emotional posting. I don’t think that’s townie. Do you mean that you think that scum tried to capitalize or that Pooky themselves is scum using a that case?
6. Yesh.
7. Sure, my buddies don’t particularly seem hesitant to vote me. As a macro observation.but I have my defenders.
8. It’s a whole bag of worms. It’s tiring being me. This isn’t even a particularly noteworthy game, I’d say about 20% of my games end up with me flailing and getting pressured early before reaching escape velocity.