Application of WOTC

[Aristophanes]

Sounds good!

I dislike WOTC, but I see its need and I think there are better ways to handle it!

[Aristophanes]

It's a necessary evil because some people just don't play nice.

Indeed, and that's why I get it. Personally, I'll just avoid a game if I absolutely cannot stand someone. However, that is extremely infrequent for me. I have avoided people for a month and gone back just fine as well.

If WOTC must be used, we have to remember were kicking someone out. Putting up a big "No boys allowed" sign against them. So emotions will always be an issue. Provoking them is unneeded and childish though! Sure, the reasons need to be out there, but arguing about them is absolutely unnecessary! That's why it needs better implimentation!

[Aristophanes]

They can be punished if they really deserve getting punished by site moderation system

Its acceptable to have blacklists and don't want some people in your game but they have a personality. To just cry about your problems with them to the mod has no good manner. You may talk about a plan for not joining the same games you are in or how to get along and talk about the things you think are not nice about them in most of the cases.

Some people just can't talk to each other, but they know this and generally try to avoid games with each other rather than WOTCing them though.

I say usually because I've seen tempers fly when people have tantrums and don't respect each others space. Which is, once again, selfish and childish.

So as much as this is a great ideal, it's not always achievable.

[Aristophanes]

Perhaps a good model would be a private PM to the [to-be] mod. The mod announces to the players that there is one, why there is one and invites people to PM to add their name in to the hat if they wish.

I think this is a great model to follow.

It should become the standard.

[Aristophanes]

So as much as this is a great ideal, it's not always achievable.

It is achievable if mods ask them to explain the reasoning and transfer that opinion to the accused, and ask the accused to answer the accuser and defend themselves or to just avoid him.

voting to throw someone out of a game is just so kiddish. Its exactly what children do. like 100%

It totally is child's play. No doubt there.

But to ask the mod to play the middle man in an argument that probably won't get worked out and in which they have no real stake isn't right either. At that point the mod is likely to just kick both players out.

Whoa, ninjas.

[Aristophanes]

Perhaps a good model would be a private PM to the [to-be] mod. The mod announces to the players that there is one, why there is one and invites people to PM to add their name in to the hat if they wish.

I think this is a great model to follow.

It should become the standard.

nah I disagree

It must be public at least. Its just to lame to remove someone's access to a game without telling them why. Its rude.

In this model it is made public if the Mod feels it a necessary thing to enforce, so the players can decide and the WOTC'd knows it's happening.

[Aristophanes]

Perhaps a good model would be a private PM to the [to-be] mod. The mod announces to the players that there is one, why there is one and invites people to PM to add their name in to the hat if they wish.

I think this is a great model to follow.

It should become the standard.

I guess this keeps it more anonymous but I don't think this helps the "hurt feelings" part which seems to be what you're trying to fix.

It's part of it. I mean, rather than a personal argument erupting in thread, the reasons are stated and people can decide. The accused is likely to say rebutted, but rather than "you suck and you deserved it!" It is more likely to be "I did it because..."

This is the difference and allows a proper decision from the players involved.

[Aristophanes]

In this model it is made public if the Mod feels it a necessary thing to enforce, so the players can decide and the WOTC'd knows it's happening.

The people who are voting yes to out someone must be known. Its lame to vote for WOTC'ing someone without telling them. Its not ok with any standards.

Okay, but this can still be done without having personal battles arise.

Like, say "a WOTC was sent in against ___ for ~reason~.
Please let me know if you cannot play with ___ for this reason (or another)."

It's that simple.

[Aristophanes]

Of course there have been people who are aware of issues with other players already inner who in anyway..

[Aristophanes]

If she didn't leave then she is being unreasonable. now you might bring this problem to mod and mod might use whatever enforcer methods he might want

This is WOTC/WOTM

[Aristophanes]

the reasoning behind not making it public is something like "it creates more drama" but then you get threads like this where people who have been WOTCd or are close to someone who has been WOTCd whine about how bad a system it is

WOTC used to be done quietly and I imagine it still happens that way most of the time. People don't like to cause conflict and a private way of saying they're not comfortable with a person in the game makes it more likely people speak up instead of being quiet for the sake of 'not causing drama'. To me it's like imagining if our report system let people see who reported them.

There isn't a point of having it be public for the sake of letting the accused state their case or whatever. If [insert mod threshhold] people say they don't want to play with someone there isn't anything left to say.

I agree with this wholeheartedly!

[Aristophanes]

What if you already did all that previously.

And then they join a game you're already in anyway.

I know this is purely hypothetical and NEVER EVER happens but indulge me.

Lol

Dat sarcasm

[Aristophanes]

Really??

[Aristophanes]

We are all adults here.

I don't think this is true, and I'm not talking about how many scummers have reached the age of majority.

Ooooh Buuuurn! XD

[Aristophanes]

That's fine, but it's not an argument against WOTC as a mechanic. You're just saying it needs some tweaks

Which is the whole point of this thread really.

[Aristophanes]

As a mod, I could ban you from my game for no reason other than not liking your avatar. That's acceptable

I believe it's Camn who won't let you join their game without an avatar. Technically WOTM I suppose, though I've never thought of it that way.

[Aristophanes]

I guess one thing i didn't make clear is overall i think the idea of a formalized wotc is silly. That, to me, is purview of the moderator.

Because if i get a pm that says so and so sucks at mafia, too bad get a helmet.
But if i get a pm that says so and so is acidic and insulting look at these games I'll probably give them the boot.
But i would be irritated if either took place in my signup threads.

I totally agree here

[Aristophanes]

this thread is enough for anyone to get an opinion on yume

Yup.

Yume, please stop playing the victim here. It's why you aren't improving or changing your play. If you did so, or were willing to do so, this wouldn't be the issue that it is.

I can't believe this thread became a toxic pool of toxicity (well, I can in hindsight actually).

I think this has become Yume centric though, which isn't right. We are attacking her and singling her out. Of course, she is continuing to play victim, be toxic, be stubborn as all hell, hang on questions that don't matter but insist they be answered threatening big red letters because

that always works out well

, and shifting all blame off of herself rather than accepting the criticisms which she has said she can take.

These are all reasons I would consider WOTCing you, despite having never used it myself, and never planning to. They speak to the larger problem with your play. One which you refuse to legitimize despite people telling you, yelling at you, avoiding you, WOTCing you, etc.

Learn to play with us and we'll play with you! It's as simple as that! Throwing a fit when you're confronted just deepens the case.against you.

[Aristophanes]

I will stop posting like you want. Good bye.

Not what I said. But if you do, please take care!

I have no ill feelings towards you as a person and was merely trying to be constructive.

We care about your wellbeing and I hope you know that!

[Aristophanes]

Until every newbies replace out and the game is now filled with grumpy oldies

/in

[Aristophanes]

Hey, House. Here's a google form binding you. Select 'yes' and we're good to go

https://docs.google.com/forms/u/0/d/1JW ... gN47r9VoWk

I signed it

[Aristophanes]

Pft
>game of competitive nature
>fun

GIF, I always have fun!
Even when I get mad and annoyed, I enjoy it!
I especially get a kick out of people yelling at me! I don't know why, but it makes me smile!

[Aristophanes]

XD

Love you people too!

[Aristophanes]

Jesus Yume go to the doctor.

Yeah, this doesn't sound healthy! On a note absolutely unrelated to games, please get this mentioned to a physician! It is extremely worrisome!

I hope to one day see you be great at Mafia!
Sometimes I can see why a WOTM happens, like the recent one in Inception where activity levels are highly required and you have a history of not performing in that respect.
In other queues, like the Open and Normal queues, or even less intense themed games, it should indeed happen less. But sometimes it just makes sense.

[Aristophanes]

Sometimes, you gotta do some things you might not specifically enjoy in order to accomplish something meaningful in life.

This is by far the best, probably most important post in this thread!

Well said, Grey!

[Aristophanes]

so what's wrong with taking the back streets

You'll never know if you don't go.

I take it back!
New best post

[Aristophanes]

Yume, if I made a game, role madnessed it, and explicitly gave you a pre-in, would you play it beginning to end, with relatively regular activity, and let me know if something unexpected came up which would prevent your continual activity in the game?

It would be a game for you to play which only people explicitly willing to play with you and give you a chance would join.

If you say yes, I will create this game and put it in signups when it is convenient for you. What size would you like?

This would be your chance to turn over a new leaf. To show the site what you can do. To show us you can abide by the standard site rules without having anyone's fun endangered. That you can meet activity requirements. That you can commit to the game start to finish. That you don't need to be WOTM/WOTC'd.

This is the best thing I can offer you, so please consider it!

[Aristophanes]

I would accept that deal, but judging by the tone of the post, that deal is probably a dud/a joke.

Sorry if my tone came off wonky! It's not often a make actual serious posts here. I absolutely was and am serious!

I'll start crafting something as soon as I can, and we can PM about timing if you like! BTW, do you prefer Bastard mechanics in your role madness games?

[Aristophanes]

people mock aristo for being a yes man but he really lives up to his title here

<3

[Aristophanes]

This thread is now about Work Opportunity Tax Credit.

===============
What is WOTC?
===============

The Work Opportunity Tax Credit (WOTC) is a Federal tax credit available to employers for hiring individuals from certain target groups who have consistently faced significant barriers to employment.
WOTC joins other workforce programs that incentivize workplace diversity and facilitate access to good jobs for American workers.

==============
What does it do?
==============

WOTC helps targeted workers move from economic dependency into self-sufficiency as they earn a steady income and become contributing taxpayers, while participating employers are able to reduce their income tax liability.

This is a lot of words that don't help me, being Canadian and all...

[Aristophanes]

Re: Post 616

Mini 1936, Yume's Custie U-pick, ended in a

Town Win!!!

The point of this game was to show that Yume is a player worth having and not WOTM/WOTCing out of your games!

Here are some stellar reviews of her play:

Spoiler:

Yume got better and better as the game progressed and my expectations were blown out of the water. <3

Good job Yume. You're also the only person talking about the obvious game solution

I'm really impressed with Yume this game

Ye watching Yume grow was amazing.

I was really really pleased with their play and would love to have her play in another game of mine! So, yeah! She's worth letting into your setups

Yume did fantastic and was arguably one of the best players by dayplay in the game! She was active, pushed her reads in a convincing way, and pinned scum and town down really well!

Yume is a fantastic player and I hope this shows it! Feel free to read through the game and see for yourself It was a lot of fun!