Open 888 | Welcome to Feryland! -- End!

[Merlyn]

Yoooo Merlyn!

Wait, am I supposed to pretend I don't know Merlyn if every time I was on the same playerlist as her, I was a rep-in and she died before I even repped into the game?

Ignoring Weird Dreams Redux, because, yeah.

Yoooo we finally play together!

[Merlyn]

I'll catch up after work today all

[Merlyn]

UNVOTE: just in case

[Merlyn]

pg 1-11- I got nothin

pg 12- Ah, a classic python fake hammer.  Gimli, Black, and Comet all dumbtelled, huh?  Yeah that's too many dumbtells

Not DE dumbtelling about it after the fact on pg 13!

Another option is do a sort of hero lim (like hero vig)? And then basically go for Black for the lolz and see what happens once she gets to E-1. I dunno if it's a good idea, but I don't think I have any good idea tbh.

Python you wanted to generate content by jumping on wagons, didn't you? Let's do this.

VOTE: black

NOTE: DO NOT HAMMER BLACK OR YOU WILL BE POLICY LIMMED

I don't understand how you would get anything out of this, though, when you made it so clear to Black she was in no danger?

[Merlyn]

Dragon why do you keep trying to run yourself up?

IDK, I guess I'm not anymore.
Was trying to bait some reactions with everything I did (including the vote on you). This clearly didn't do anything.

We're ok with a Gimli hero lim

Is this still relevant? I'm bored.

Okay, I can accept that. I actually find that a more likely reason than you went just started openwolfing all over the place

pg 17-19: Afrayed comes off very genuine to me.  Comet pushed very hard there, maybe a bit too hard too hard for such a small thing.

[Merlyn]

pg 12- Ah, a classic python fake hammer.  Gimli, Black, and Comet all dumbtelled, huh?  Yeah that's too many dumbtells

Not entirely sure what you're saying with this. You think it's scummy that we all played along with the fake hammer?

All of you? No, Gimli did and he obviously turned out town. I'm saying that reading that many dumbtells in a row seems disingenous to me, like scum could have hoped to gain towncred there. It does make me want to look more closely at you and Black. And DE to some extent.

[Merlyn]

Hi merlyn welcome to the game

Yeah that's too many dumbtells

what's a dumbtell? for those of us with fuzz in their brains

A dumbtell is when somebody pretends not to know something when they really do. In this case, I'm saying that I wouldn't be surprised that someone or more than one someone who professed they didn't know that a hammer hadn't really happened actually did know, and played it up to be able to give a towny 'oh no!' kind of reaction.

@Mod

I acknowledge that I have placed people at E1 without informing everyone, and I have confirmed in the rules that I have to do this. Please note that this is only my second game back after a long absence and my first game didn’t last long. So I am still rusty. Sorry

It's not a rule per se. Players aren't required to make note of voting to E-1. It's considered a good practice in Newbie games.

[Merlyn]

Forgot to type the rest of what I meant to say! I wanted to add that it doesn't usually benefit town to accidentally hammer and it can potentially benefit scum to 'accidentally hammer' or get town to hammer another townie without meaning to, so it's just not great practice anywhere to not announce.

[Merlyn]

pg 20- oh, okay, kittie just made big cases against the two future town flips.  Not drawing conclusions yet, just think it's noteworthy.

I'm so sorry, everyone. This game is completely overwhelming my brain and when I do manage to log in I just kind of skim the pages. This is massively different than what I'm used to, and some of you post so much that I am just lost.

I have no reads, no vibes, no idea about anything. Page 21 is generally day 5 for the games I used to play, this is just overwhelming.

regardless of your alignment I really sympathize with this!  There are two things I've  learned so far and I hope you take them to heart:
1) People who turn out to be town skim, skip, and otherwise cherrypick what to respond to all the time.  It's fine for you to do it too, and just go forward.
2) People who turn out to be town are wrong all the time.  All. the. time. So just voice what you think when something sounds off , try and talk to people about the thing you found off and say whether they made you feel better or worse. It'll be fine if you're wrong!

I feel like the Kittie Gimli push is scumreading Gimli's post/'narrative' style as opposed to actual scum behaviour. Yeah he's flip-flopped a lot but afaik there's always been stuff happening in between the flip-flops (e.g. going from 'I'm on board with a comet wagon' to 'rescind liking the comet wagon' when there was a response by me to Dragon's push in between said posts) so I can't say I've seen any of them as particularly scummy. A quick glance at the Python case doesn't reveal anything I find too concerning either.

Still, it's nice to see scumhunting content from you Kittie.

Given the knowledge of the flips I really like this post by Comet.  I feel scum would have picked one of these wagons to get on.

Does no one else find this passage of interaction strange?

502 503 504 505 506 507 512 then again here  543 to 546.

almost like, "Hey your wagon is rolling we need to deflect it away, so this is what is going to happen" or am I being paranoid?

I'm not sure what you're saying here, Knott, are you saying Black was deflecting the Timmer wagon?

[Merlyn]

So this is my summary post, and once again for my Fandom I am writing this in real time as I did before, so there will be a time gap.

Anyway. I really do not know what to think now. I need to reread both Comet and Kittie, as their recent interactions have placed a lot of doubt in my mind about where the sit with me ratm. I feel confident though that Timmer is a scum. Their re-emergence into the game seems contrived and this, if I am right, places a question mark over Black. But then I would like to hear from others on my post above regarding this.

I've been waiting to see where the Gimli wagon comes from, and it really picks up on pg 25.  DE signified interest earlier, but didn't get on the wagon for some reason.  Black signifies interest but doesn't get on the wagon for some reason. Python votes and says that "I feel like limming inside Gimli/Black/Comet/DE is significantly more likely to hit red than Knott/Kittie/Tim/VIP" and also says they aren't voting Gimli for the reasons as Kitty.  Timmer ISO's Gimli and votes them mostly saying they think Gimli was dumbtelling. 

idk how I feel about Tim going from

My problem is that my traditional scum-hunting route is to ignore day 1, which is usually fluff, and wait for an elim, which in my mafia world usually was within the first 48 hours. Once that happened and then a night 1 death went through or didn't, I would start to analyze how people talked to each other, how they voted and most importantly when, and in what order. I'd look to find where the scum were hidden in voting patterns etc.

But this game so far, I don't see how I can really provide a read yet, because everything that everyone is saying is completely plausible as both town and scum, if they are good players. A good player can EASILY be scum and post pro-townie, ESPECIALLY on day 1. So when you guys are asking me for my thoguhts, I have none because I've got NOTHING that feels truly scummy to point to. Any of the posts made in this game up to now could easily be either alignment.

to actually being active and useful

C'mon.

I'm not a huge fan of him sneaking a vote in on Gimli after I expressed that I wouldn't mind voting there

My slot votes Gimli instead of Black for some reason??

I think its kittie and one of black/de

hammer away <3

Will you wagon Black with me then?

I don't like that DE claims intent to hammer on some they said they were 'sold on' as scum and then still looks for ways to get off the wagon.

[Merlyn]

Heyyy, a pagetop!

[Merlyn]

Okay. Well, that sucks

[Merlyn]

I don't mean to be a jerk here but I don't understand a self vote AT ALL as town unless it's early game RVS silliness

[Merlyn]

Did Merlyn ever fully catch up? If Dragon flips town here we're heading into ELO which is going to be a nightmare with neither replacement really having integrated fully into the game here.

I've got 11 pages or so left

[Merlyn]

Dannflor/merlyn/Comet, do you want to tell me about your reads before I die? Do you need any convincing on why Kittie and Timmer are scum?

my initial gut instinct is that timmer is not a wolf. It would be an incredibly bold move and I will applaud it if Timmer does turn out to be scum. I will look into your kittie case.

[Merlyn]

Nope nope nope nope you cannot be JK

VOTE: TimmerRC

I'll claim if I have to, but it's not possible

[Merlyn]

Okay. Pigeon invested python. I investigated Knott, who is town.

[Merlyn]

Cool so we don't vote outside of Timmer and Merlyn today.

50/50 - we win and we get to repeat this again tomorrow, we lose and we get endgamed. I guess it saves me having to actively read the rest of you for now.

Yup yup. Lim me tomorrow if I'm lying, but Timmer has to go today.

Pigeon invested python.

This is strange to me because Pigeon seemed pretty set on Python being town throughout most of Day 1 - I know you can't answer for him but why would he pick Python to investigate?

I have no idea, I was just given the results by the mod.

Why did you check Afrayed over a slot like Timmer, Merlyn?

LOL I thought Timmer was town after yesterdays lolhammer. The only folks I'd be checking are Knott, you, and Kittie, but Knott was the one I wanted to resolve first.

Nope nope nope nope you cannot be JK

VOTE: TimmerRC

I'll claim if I have to, but it's not possible

LOL. Considering that you are who I jailkept, I'm not surprised by this.

Uh huh. Convenient that you left it open to pretty much anyone.

Nope nope nope nope you cannot be JK

VOTE: TimmerRC

I'll claim if I have to, but it's not possible

Claim.

I already did. Maybe you're skimming.

I looked at who was left in the game.

Comet seemed town. I have a hunch on Afrayed that they are town.

Black/Dannflor had a decent chance of being bad, but if they were good, there was no way they would get night killed.

Kittie is a complete question mark but was under a lot of scrutiny so if they are town they would not get killed.

But Merlyn... Merlyn subbed in and didnt really do much and it felt like he was letting us kill each other. But, with the number of players left, they COULD be good. So I gave them a 50/50 chance of either being bad or targeted for a kill.

No one was going to kill me, I've been taking too many votes.

I'm a she.

[Merlyn]

Okay. Pigeon invested python. I investigated Knott, who is town.

So you are claiming cop?

Let me see how this works... you wouldn't claim that if there's a tracker, or a friendly neighbour, so we must be in the jailkeeper only game and you can claim whatever you want because there is no other PR to counter you. And your plan is to say that we are in the cop only game. Nicely done, it is literally your only option.

Except that the kill failed, and there is no way that can happen in a cop only game.

Unless your plan is to say that the mafia just... forgot?

VOTE: Merlyn, obviously.

And I apologize, I forgot to check your pronouns.

No worries, I appreciate it.

The only checking on the NewD3 list I've done is to see if what you claimed could exist with mine, and it can't. That's all I needed to know. I'm assuming you no killed last night in order to set this up.

[Merlyn]

The only checking on the NewD3 list I've done is to see if what you claimed could exist with mine, and it can't. That's all I needed to know. I'm assuming you no killed last night in order to set this up.

Of course. But let's walk through this.

You are claiming that I skipped a kill to "set this up".

And you are claiming cop.

So if you are a cop, there's 2 possibilities. One, there is also a town doctor. Or two, there is no other power role. Let's break each one down.

If you are a cop and there is a doctor, I would know that there were 2 town PR's because in that scenario my team would have a mafia roleblocker. And every scenario where the mafia has a RB, there are 2 town PRs. So it would be suicide for me to claim jailkeeper unprovoked when anything I said to you would be refuted by another town PR showing up and supporting you (which of course has not happened). Either the real jailkeeper would speak up, or the cop and a doctor would bolster their claim, or 2 masons would speak up. But that hasn't happened

So let's look at the other scenario.

MAfia is 2 goons. Ther eis either a cop, a jailkeeper, or two masons.

Here again, it would be absolute suicide for me to claim jailkeeper. There is a 3 out of 3 chance that i would get refuted.

So why.... WHY, would I withhold a kill to set this up and it couldn't work?

I think you're pretty bold as scum (or your partner is and you're in for the ride). You faked a lolhammer yesterday, and if this ploy works you ride all the way to victory. It's a good enough gambit to risk this and hope that town sides with you over someone who hasn't been in the game that long.

[Merlyn]

Could you touch on what I actually said? How would either withholding a kill or me coming out with a suicidal claim make sense?

Compared to... you are lying.

...? I just responded to this. It would make sense because it false clears you.

I understand that you have to keep arguing with me, but I'm going to try and step back and let other talk.

[Merlyn]

Dragon said Afrayed was town with his dying breath,

Dragon was town- he had no idea if he reads were right, and neither did I. Did you?

You are trying just a little tooooooooo hard to sell your story.

If I get voted out here we lose the game. You want me to be...chill or something about it?

[Merlyn]

Well, I would point to Occam's Razor on this one. That is a very convoluted, ballsy, yolo plan to execute, right down to revealing my fake claim and literally stepping away from it ask how i should proceed, it would ALL be a complete act. Or, i'm the jailkeeper and i stopped the kill.

Okay, let's use Occam's razor- why would I counterclaim? I wasn't in trouble, as scum I would have to cook up a whole fakeclaim. Why? The simpler explanation is the truth, I have a role that makes yours impossible.

I think you didn't intend to lolhammer yesterday, and this is an attempt to a) clear you all the way to the end for a win or b) distance from your buddy to clear them.

[Merlyn]

Uh huh. Convenient that you left it open to pretty much anyone.

To be fair he did ask/indicate multiple times he wanted/was ready to say who he had targeted - you also line up with his brief description of who he had jailkept before he revealed it as you.

I went back and looked this again- he only says it once, and he says the person he targeted he's 'neutral' on. This covers pretty much anyone but you I think.

[Merlyn]

I'm not sure what the point is either but Knott is town

[Merlyn]

He is town, I don't know what to tell you

[Merlyn]

All I'm going to say about any of that is don't use the "l" word here, Knott, it's against the rules. It's a lim or elimination.

[Merlyn]

He is town, I don't know what to tell you

Check the PM again please

what PM?

you have a private message? with Merlyn?

She means my investigate results.

Maybe take a step back from the keyboard for a bit

[Merlyn]

All I'm going to say about any of that is don't use the "l" word here, Knott, it's against the rules. It's a lim or elimination.

?

Post 1223

[Merlyn]

ahhh ok got it it is a small l not a big L

yup yup

[Merlyn]

Merlyn, why does it advantage you to support me. I mean I am ready to lim you? and yet in my eyes you have not provide a counter to Tim that is believable.

Ok so lets consider you are town and you flip town.. who do you think we should target, or is it too late for town?

If you flip me town loses, that's the end of the game. I'm not in scum team's mind, I don't know what led to the fakeclaim. I only know my own stuff and that means that Timmer is scum.

[Merlyn]

I have answered it? In a whole series of posts. 1161, 1163, 1184, 1185. If you're asking me for more, there's nothing more to give bc that's my best guess as to what's going on. I feel like you want me to find something definitive that I can wave in front of you and prove I'm town, and that doesn't exist here (or in most games of maf). You have to decide as best you can with what you have.

[Merlyn]

this game is a scum win fyi

I think it would have been if Timmer didn't go super Saiyan god mode

Yup, agreed, you and VIP set up up for success and then Timmer just decided to solve the game on his own

GG town, you deserve that win! Timmer, amazing job, I hope we get to play together again!

Major props to my scumbuddy Dann for instilling doubt right to the very end lol

[Merlyn]

I forgot to say thank you for modding to my favorite mod, Ffery!

[Merlyn]

Thank you all for helping pop my mafia cherry!

'twas fun think I'll play again!

You were a pleasure to play with. I hope you stick around!

Seconded, hope to see you in a future game Kittie!

[Merlyn]

This was my first time getting caught as scum by a PR, and also the first time I tried a fake claim to get out of it. It was actually really fun