Open 909 | A Newbie Game | Game Over

[JacksonVirgo]

Ketchup, do you have scum experience?

[JacksonVirgo]

Either you’re good at faking short term progression and you’re not risk adverse or you’re probably town here.

[JacksonVirgo]

hmmm

[JacksonVirgo]

I caught it

[JacksonVirgo]

Just like I caught the sun in my hands the other day and won the lottery, equally likely stuff

[JacksonVirgo]

note to self to fakecrumb when I roll scum

Thanks for destroying your crumbs credibility in future games brother <3

[JacksonVirgo]

Ketchup has scum thoughts in his head. This is his second mention of a scum game

[JacksonVirgo]

Imagine the strats

you could type for ages as scum and everyone would think you were creating an amazing post then suddenly you disappear and come back 5 mins later complaining that your phone died but you’d get towncred for nothing maybe perhaps

This was the other, not sure what I’m making of it but it’s in my head

[JacksonVirgo]

I think I’m staying on ketchup, I’ll elaborate soon

[JacksonVirgo]

this is so funny

[JacksonVirgo]

Who the fuck knows lmao

[JacksonVirgo]

damn yeah I hadn’t appreciated the vote counts at the time Dragon voted flush (this is page 31 for context anyone reading this). Dragon voting Flush there does feel very ungenuine, good spot

VOTE: HEM

I’m backkkk

I think it’s more likely that dragon is partnered with Ydra in some way over purposely trying to save skitter. I can’t tell. Unless he’s just that impressionable and he gets swayed by the first person to townread him.

I really do think something’s happening within the 4 of: skitter, Ydra, hem, purple.

I’m not sure where Zach fits in but I think there’s something there I haven’t figured out yet. SF…I want to townread but I’m not 100% there yet.

You and Jack are my town core right now but I’m very easy to pocket so who knows lol

I don’t think it’s ever dragon/skitter. Dragons actions don’t make sense with that. I am liking Zach a lot but want them to post more.

[JacksonVirgo]

lots of talk about the link between skitter, ydra, and hem (now purple?) - no one has properly articulated the phenomenon.

It’s hard to articulate something I cannot place

[JacksonVirgo]

can someone actually explain why not posting in rvs is wolfy again

Who’s saying it is?

[JacksonVirgo]

yes i have kjq. i have a bind on both you and ketchup. one of you has to be town.

I agree with you, I’m a little back and forth with ketchup as there’s posts that would be a stretch to traditionally call scummy, theres some form of
potency to his push on dragon that feels forced
looking back that I wanted to iso him for but never got the chance or effort. For the things that I would consider too weird to be posted from scum I don’t think that’s necessarily true for him. He absorbs plays like a sponge, he has put into practice one of my subtle plays at one point I don’t believe it’s a stretch he does more hidden under the guise of a huge fluff poster (I know he has a lot of content, but as a playstyle he also posts a lot of fluff)

[JacksonVirgo]

I’m referring directly to the asterisk thing I did, which shows me he watches to see what plays he can use for himself. I haven’t seen him do something like this before but I’m also not stupid to imagine he isn’t capable

[JacksonVirgo]

I’m telling ketchup what play I’m referring to I don’t care if y’all have no idea

[JacksonVirgo]

i still think jackson very town just misguided (on me)

Why am I town?

[JacksonVirgo]

Every single experienced player here seems to have a stick up their ass

[JacksonVirgo]

I think my connection on the three ydrasse/skitter/hem are the fact they are all seemingly stiff as hell.

I inherently saw it as scummy, but I just think they’re just playing a different game than the rest of us. You’re all aware you repped into a newbie game yes?

[JacksonVirgo]

i still think jackson very town just misguided (on me)

Why am I town?

you feel fairly similar to our last two games, and I don't think scum!you tries to get me faded (because you've seen it will be a lot of work to get me out)

Elaborate on the meta-read if you can

[JacksonVirgo]

also yeah you being willing to live interact with people rather than dip and take forever feels like honest town

Me? I’ve dipped for a pretty extended period of time incredibly recently. Actively avoiding responding to skitter and HEM right away (cuz it was frustrating) I don’t see how this applies to me

[JacksonVirgo]

The beauty of forums is that you can quote whatever post you want, whenever you want

[JacksonVirgo]

The beauty of forums is that you can quote whatever post you want, whenever you want

JV, you can't really be unaware how being slung with multiple posts of stuff you need to read can be hurtful to gamestate, can you? are you disputing this?

I was poking fun

[JacksonVirgo]

The beauty of forums is that you can quote whatever post you want, whenever you want

JV, you can't really be unaware how being slung with multiple posts of stuff you need to read can be hurtful to gamestate, can you? are you disputing this?

I don’t think we should shackle ourselves substantially because of lowposters. Is the spam excessive? Probably but not everything is about super strict optimal plays

[JacksonVirgo]

If you could elaborate on a single read beyond one town in ketchup/kay having one town. That would be a good start

[JacksonVirgo]

Wow I repeated myself there whoops

[JacksonVirgo]

I’m sick of all these excuses for not adding to the thread

[JacksonVirgo]

i still think jackson very town just misguided (on me)

Why am I town?

you feel fairly similar to our last two games, and I don't think scum!you tries to get me faded (because you've seen it will be a lot of work to get me out)

Elaborate on the meta-read if you can

idk its vibes and your voting me, i cant explain it well rn soz

I need you to think about it, what similarities are you seeing

[JacksonVirgo]

I did think that their behaviour surrounding skitter was awkward, they were committing to a push without believing in it which isn’t a great look. I initially wrote that as townie because it’s kinda goofy to not at least pretend you believe who you’re voting is scummy. Even if that were just the easiest way with just “vibes”.

[JacksonVirgo]

So the theory that they’re likely wolf with skitter (if they’re wolf at all) holds some weight as it could justify that behaviour somewhat

[JacksonVirgo]

i still think jackson very town just misguided (on me)

Honestly they're pinging me a lot and I don't understand their approach to the game

What’s my approach? Why do you consider not understanding means scummy?

[JacksonVirgo]

i still think jackson very town just misguided (on me)

Honestly they're pinging me a lot and I don't understand their approach to the game

What’s my approach? Why do you consider not understanding means scummy?

The things you're focusing on seem kinda weird
Your town seems off
Dunno why you're scumreading ketchup

Why is weird? Why is my town off? I’ve explained the ketchup read

[JacksonVirgo]

Skitter why do you consider different as scummy. I won’t ask again

[JacksonVirgo]

So skitter, you consider disagreements scummy?

[JacksonVirgo]

what's pinging me about jackson is that he's not scumhunting

Excuse me? I am so

[JacksonVirgo]

what's pinging me about jackson is that he's not scumhunting

You’re telling me “ketchup bad” isn’t scum hunting? Say it ain’t so

But ketchup bad!!!

[JacksonVirgo]

jackson can you like give me an insight into where your head is at this game

A lot of this game has been pretty stunted for me because of the weird stick up the ass behaviour from the experienced players and the amount of fluff-posting from the top three players, myself included, so the people who post a small amount I don’t have a strong read about which I’ll try and rectify.

Where I’m at is that I’m fairly skeptical about ketchup in particular, there’s a few things about them that I actively believe is scummy and then some that I feel would be weird to but knowing how ketchup plays and that I don’t have a reference to a scum game of his so I’m actively doing my best to be impartial and see him for what he is this time around.

I think purple was townie based on the fact that their behaviour was almost twtbw status. I didn’t expect a wolf to be outwardly okay with voting somebody with no reason. I feel a scum instinctively wants to add some form of reasoning behind their actions. There wasn’t really any, the only semblance of doubt there would be a direct pairing with skitter.

In retrospect I’m thinking dragons posts looked bad because of how dragon speaks in particular more than anything to do with the game. You came in and I feel a conflict with you but this feeing resembles the Frenemies game so I’m discounting that feeling somewhat and trying to look further than it. I think your talk about thread health was good, I could understand why a townie would want to restore it but also I’m labelling this as NAI as you could also have just said this out of respect for the game itself snd the newer players. Initially I thought it was scummy how you had few reads, but kept complaining about things and in fact I got a little frustrated you telling me Im not scum hunting while you’ve shared fuck all yourself of actual substance. Overall I think I’m reading you as scummy just because it’s you, and that’s stupid so in an attempt to look beyond that I think you’re town but I am still working through this. When I find time to actually sink into putting a lot more thought I will be coming back to this.

For skitter I don’t like how neutral they’ve been acting since day start. They’ve started the game townreading dragon, I don’t recall a single time they explained this except “pushing out of rvs is good, *thumbs up*” and the behaviours around early pushes were wither reciprocations or shutting down an idea. I don’t recall a single unique thought they had about a scumread except the read on me and even then it was vague and ended up seeming like just because they don’t understand my mindset that I’m wolfy, this is just incredibly shallow reasoning as the only push they’ve seemed to do on their own and now recently they’ve even acted neutral towards that calling that same reason to scumread me as logic to neutral read me almost. It’s different words but it’s looking at the same stuff.

[JacksonVirgo]

Feel free to ask me to clarify anything

[JacksonVirgo]

That’s my primary four focus, I have reads outside of them but I’m barely thinking about them. I should be though

[JacksonVirgo]

Yeah I feel a sense of bravado around jackson's votes that keeps pinging me but they also said somewhere that this is a purposeful playstyle choice so i'm trying not to read too much into that

This is why I have found it impossible to have a read on Jackson from the beginning

Is it? Can you elaborate

[JacksonVirgo]

i don't feel as if i've been stuck up, nor do i think ydrasse has been stuck up. anybody really feel this way about us?

yeah i laughed when i left skitter out of there, too.

I may be wording it in an extreme way, but all three of you do seem fairly stiff this game which is the connection I saw between you all. Differing degrees, and it’s not meant to be an insult at all

[JacksonVirgo]

i also don't feel like i've contributed jack shit. i think i've made a lot of impact in this game since i arrived, and i have made my reads known to all. anybody else feeling this way about me?

You really haven’t made them known, at least to my know so I’ll ask you the question you had asked me. Where is your head at?

[JacksonVirgo]

Knowledge*

[JacksonVirgo]

hemmington this is not worth it imo

Wow, the one time we’re trying to get on the same page you say this?

[JacksonVirgo]

Short answer: yes

what's so stuck up about us? is it just in comparison to jackson who has been l i v e and f u n?

I’ll answer this on my end. Ydrasse has been acting withdrawn all game and makes comments like the one they just made. You come in complaining about everything, bringing up one question over and over when it’s been answered. Skitter just rejecting everything outright without explaining a single thing of substance. Just a few examples of the three of you.

The air around all three of you is thick. It’s hard to play around you (reading you effectively etc) when the contrast is so large between two sides of the town. I’m not saying you’re on the wrong side, I’m saying it’s different and it’s affecting the game.

[JacksonVirgo]

Its at contrast with how a lot of the players are playing, myself included so the connection I saw was exactly this.

[JacksonVirgo]

Short answer: yes

what's so stuck up about us? is it just in comparison to jackson who has been l i v e and f u n?

Why single me out here?

[JacksonVirgo]

as in the way it's being said

it's just not .. helpful

Do you think the connection between you three and the rest is particularly healthy for the game as it stands?

[JacksonVirgo]

because i think you've raised the narrative that we're stuck up, and so it's obviously going to be in comparison to how you've been playing - another experienced player. i also think you've had much influence in enabling the extended rvs, and the multiposting. to the point that when i did raise the concern about it, it felt like you rebuffed it by saying it's an excuse to not contribute to the thread. really, what I'm trying to get to the bottom of is how much influence you've had in the game and how much of that influence is anti-town if you really squint your eyes.

I acknowledge this post. Can you please tell me your thoughts on the gamestate? Thanks

[JacksonVirgo]

i'll lay off it now. i want to put it out there as to not get lost in the ether. because when you explained where your head is at, it feels as if you agree that the way things were going weren't really very pro-town and it was contradictory to the gamestate that you were encouraging. and it seems as if you agree, because you want to rectify it.

I don’t really care if things aren’t perfectly optimal all year round. I play to have fun and I’ve tried boosting others fun while still playing the game. I acknowledge what you see and how it can be seen as a risk to thread health, so I can acknowledge that line of thinking I just don’t think complaining about it constantly does anything but pull it too far into the other direction. Comments like Ydrasses don’t help either as they are segmenting the game further and causing even more dissonance than there already is

[JacksonVirgo]

i don't feel as if ydrasse's comments have segmented the game further. what i feel has segmented the game is you actually segmenting the game by giving an us vs them narrative about what's fun and what isn't fun, newbies vs experienced, one side of town vs other side of town. you've done this plenty of times. I'm not asking for perfectly optimal, nor i think anyone is.

Answer my questions. This is my last time asking

[JacksonVirgo]

I’ve asked, answer me

[JacksonVirgo]

I thought the same yet you still asked me. Do me the decency and answer my question.

[JacksonVirgo]

I’ve read everything, I’ll sit on it all and come back later I’m too tired to respond in a decent way but will in the morning.

Also SF, I only like people really close to me calling me Jack so please avoid that, Jackson is fine. Thanks brother

[JacksonVirgo]

I would move my vote but it’d be to skitter and I’d rather just wait for the replacement before putting them at E-1

[JacksonVirgo]

Actually it’s skitter vs a townread right now so

VOTE: Skitter

Bloop

[JacksonVirgo]

alright so it seems people are waiting on me to claim which would be VT

from reading half of the game JV is pinging me scum the most but ill defer my explanation for tommorow

UNVOTE: Purplemango

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

good night, will be back in the morning

And to think someone who also writes in camel case would betray a brother like this

[JacksonVirgo]

What do you guys make of Snivy’s decision to hold off on explaining his vote? It’s like he’s really desperate for another wagon to pick up post-claim

Is this genuinely what you think about it?

UNVOTE:

[JacksonVirgo]

What do you guys make of Snivy’s decision to hold off on explaining his vote? It’s like he’s really desperate for another wagon to pick up post-claim

Is this genuinely what you think about it?

UNVOTE:

He said he didn’t have time to explain, but if I were town!snivy I just wouldn’t vote unless I could explain. Otherwise it just looks like you want to string people along due to how widely SRed you are

You don’t think that’s almost sealing their fate? That’s the literal worst argument I’ve seen in my life

[JacksonVirgo]

Accidental emoji but fits my mood

[JacksonVirgo]

I hate both now but will hammer for self pres if I have to

[JacksonVirgo]

Listen, I’ll admit that I have a personal bias against subbed slots, but literally nothing about snivy’s posting so far has been encouraging. Feels like he’s digging a deeper hole than I would’ve ever expected.

You don’t think scum would at least attempt to look good? This feels either like an agenda or confbias.

[JacksonVirgo]

Not sure I like the Kay/Flush/Ketchup dynamic regarding this

[JacksonVirgo]

Not sure I like the Kay/Flush/Ketchup dynamic regarding this

Expand on this please.

Snivys actions have been labelled as worse or still scummy and I believe all the logic regarding that is incredibly just because of bad mojo towards the slot more than what snivy is actually doing. One of you at least is riffing off the others, this wagon is bad I would like to pivot. I really like how they’ve acted when repping into the slot they did

The pivot likely would be to me because I’m not pushing purple and I don’t want snivy anymore. I don’t think anybody wants Ketchup, i want to re-read since snivy repped in to see who feels the most opportunistic

[JacksonVirgo]

Pedit hell

[JacksonVirgo]

Listen, I’ll admit that I have a personal bias against subbed slots, but literally nothing about snivy’s posting so far has been encouraging. Feels like he’s digging a deeper hole than I would’ve ever expected.

You don’t think scum would at least attempt to look good? This feels either like an agenda or confbias.

Fun fact: I have zero scum experience to draw from. I can only observe what scummy behavior is based on my normal standards, and snivy is making a point to tick the boxes that skitter stopped short of.

Also I only have one other scumread with decent confidence and no one’s interested in her.

VOTE: Flush

[JacksonVirgo]

Jackson expecting me to pivot when I’m not interested/hate every pivoting option and then voting me when I express that. Cool stuff.

I’m voting you because you avoided answering my question and instead opted to justify your behaviour in a way that did not matter.

[JacksonVirgo]

Not sure I like the Kay/Flush/Ketchup dynamic regarding this

Expand on this please.

Snivys actions have been labelled as worse or still scummy and I believe all the logic regarding that is incredibly just because of bad mojo towards the slot more than what snivy is actually doing. One of you at least is riffing off the others, this wagon is bad I would like to pivot. I really like how they’ve acted when repping into the slot they did

The pivot likely would be to me because I’m not pushing purple and I don’t want snivy anymore. I don’t think anybody wants Ketchup, i want to re-read since snivy repped in to see who feels the most opportunistic

So Snivy’s entrance into the game is enough for you to townread that entire slot and pivot?

It’s enough to not want it for today yes

[JacksonVirgo]

There’s no way you believe that

[JacksonVirgo]

My question is not rigged, my question was trying to gauge your mindset and instead of answering you avoided it with an attempt to protect your ass. You’ve made arguments for what town!snivy or wolf!snivy would be doing here, why would asking why scum!snivy would behave like this be a rigged question?

You can’t use the logic against him but shut down when it’s used to defend him. You can’t pick and choose when your lack of scum knowledge applies

Spoiler:

Listen, I’ll admit that I have a personal bias against subbed slots, but literally nothing about snivy’s posting so far has been encouraging. Feels like he’s digging a deeper hole than I would’ve ever expected.

VOTE: camelCasedSnivy

E-1

I’ve heard enough, there’s no apparent benefit to dragging this out longer. We got a claim, we waited for the sub, but all the sub’s doing is making the slot look way sketchier.

What do you guys make of Snivy’s decision to hold off on explaining his vote? It’s like he’s really desperate for another wagon to pick up post-claim

Is this genuinely what you think about it?

UNVOTE:

He said he didn’t have time to explain, but if I were town!snivy I just wouldn’t vote unless I could explain. Otherwise it just looks like you want to string people along due to how widely SRed you are

What do you guys make of Snivy’s decision to hold off on explaining his vote? It’s like he’s really desperate for another wagon to pick up post-claim

[JacksonVirgo]

No, you don’t like it because you’re confbiased.

[JacksonVirgo]

Immediately labelljng a disagreement with reading your SR as scum/bad themselves is a telltale sign you’re tunnelled and should reassess

[JacksonVirgo]

I want to omgus so badly now but this wagon is such a blatant trap

Do it. Quit flapping your mouth.

Why is it a trap?

[JacksonVirgo]

The problem I have is that I think if Skitter didn’t rep out, she would’ve been limmed. So the rep out literally gave that slot new life and that’s insane to me. If there was enough to lim off of before a rep, an entrance that didn’t even provide any real detailed thoughts about the game shouldn’t be enough to take that slot off the table now.

A town can play poorly and a replacement towns it up, that means nothing except proving you and others are just apathetic towards the slot. There’s also more to reading someone than just what content they provide.

[JacksonVirgo]

Just cuz the majority want it doesn’t mean it’s correct

[JacksonVirgo]

what we‘re trying to hit by switching is 6/8 (camel town) x 2/8 (we successfully pivot to scum) which is 3/16. chance camel is scum is 2/16. Chance we pivot from S to S is 1/28. Chance that we pivot from town to town, exposing our PRs and helping scum is about 10.5/16 I think. Pivoting gains less than 20% of the time. Pivoting loses about 75% of the time. Why pivot

Fuckin’ nerd

jkjk

You’re so tunnelled you whip out probability for a D1 flip. Actually insane

[JacksonVirgo]

My concern is with us not flipping a wolf

[JacksonVirgo]

We don’t win if the PRs are alive. We win once the scum are dead

[JacksonVirgo]

Flipping a wolf also helps us towards slaying the wolves

[JacksonVirgo]

In fact moreso, as it directly increases the time we have until endgame and it exponentially increases the chances at finding the other wolf due to the huge spike of new information

[JacksonVirgo]

did you not?

What does it matter what my reads were?

[JacksonVirgo]

I’m done, y’all are tunnelled I couldn’t care less anymore

[JacksonVirgo]

Not liking this page from JV

Bite a bullet

[JacksonVirgo]

The game information tends to increase exponentially. If you feed it little in the early game, by late game you’ll have less than if you make it chockers in the early game.

[JacksonVirgo]

Anybody suspecting me based on how I’m acting now is acting stupid. Why would scum!me ever actively push against a wagon that I barely have to involve myself in anymore to jump to a new wagon and make it easier for me personally to get flipped instead. If it was my partner pushed up, even worse at this point given snivys position and how everybody is acting towards them, it’d be the play tk commit to a bus nmw.

Flip Snivy, regret it and then listen to me later. Thanks

[JacksonVirgo]

See you D2

[JacksonVirgo]

See you D2

if you’re still alive!

I will be lol

[JacksonVirgo]

I take back what I said, Kay is never stupid (and I realise I was speaking harsher than I mean it) i feel its quite misguided

[JacksonVirgo]

Actually it’s skitter vs a townread right now so

VOTE: Skitter

Bloop

JV, why does this logic not apply all of a sudden? feels like the wagon is stronger on me now than it was then but now you decide to flip my read and go for other people later?

Difference is I believe you’re townier now

[JacksonVirgo]

If needed later I’ll consolidate onto Snivy so we get an elim but I really don’t think it flips red

[JacksonVirgo]

No town would let us miss the elim so can we stop talking about this and actually discuss people?

[JacksonVirgo]

Hey hey, it’s your boy JACKSONVIRGO coming in to solve THE WHOLE. ASS. GAME.

[JacksonVirgo]

It would be cooler
But in general its make sense

Are you still on board with voting skitter-slot like you claimed a couple days ago? If not, please explain why.

Snivy more towny, i think
But i don't have someone i would prefer to vote over him rn
I can try to roll a dice but its not sound like a good way to get reads

This is a pretty bad mindset, I’m starting to not care about this as a “twtbw” thing anymore

[JacksonVirgo]

can only briefly pop in rn (ty site for dying yesterday) but i don’t think i’m interested in jv wagon rn will read up in a bit etc

don’t really feel good about any vote right now which is unpleasant

Based and also understandable

[JacksonVirgo]

i already talked about JV a bit (which its hard to do post-by-post when you're on a phone and half his posts are filler anyway)

but also interesting that yall are harping on me for taking a day to articulate on JV when

I literally just said I can’t place it, obviously I’ll start looking when I find the time and energy

i want you to succeed in articulating it

I appreciate the effort, I’ll be trying to soon don’t worry

I think my connection on the three ydrasse/skitter/hem are the fact they are all seemingly stiff as hell.

I inherently saw it as scummy, but I just think they’re just playing a different game than the rest of us. You’re all aware you repped into a newbie game yes?

this also happened, but no one critizied him for it ig even though he wasn't subbing in

I definitely got criticised for it

[JacksonVirgo]

like, just answer for me: who do you think would flip scum the most out of the current players right now?

I was sure I answered this already, sorry

I don't have anyone that I scumread clearly, I'd rather not vote for you, zach, jackson, and ketchup (for now, at least)

And even though snivy feels towny, it makes more sense to me that he's scum than the others
Not sure where to go from here, maybe I'll try reading things again

This question is a bit weird to me because it feels more like a logical matter with calculations and such than who I think is scum, but I hope It's work for you

What about Ydrasse?

[JacksonVirgo]

Look at this point, I don’t think anyone will get the support to be limmed. This flip will give us way more information than any other flip, in my opinion. No matter the flip, we can analyze the support/resistance as well as the night kill and be in a better position to solve the game Day 2.

Dear players:
If my argument doesn’t seem logical or you’re actively against it, and/or furthermore, if you are scumreading me from anything D1, including this - just vote me and take a stand.

We need to do something.

What information will you have with a scum vs town flip here?

[JacksonVirgo]

my current solve is hem+camel, but mango could be in there too

Zzz

[JacksonVirgo]

not gonna stop a snivy elimination, but i still think purple is the best elimination and i think i have the numbers anyway.

hem, snivy, jv, ydrasse, ketchup if it's also in his solve, kjq if she wants an elimination, and a forced hammer.

I’m starting to agree with you honestly

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: mango

I’d prefer ketchup but that aint happening. One of kjq/ketchup is bad. I think hem is townie as well as zach, I think snivy gets a pass for the moment. Ydrasse/Purple/Ketchup is where I think the scum is in. I don’t think Kay makes this stance as a wolf.

[JacksonVirgo]

Look at this point, I don’t think anyone will get the support to be limmed. This flip will give us way more information than any other flip, in my opinion. No matter the flip, we can analyze the support/resistance as well as the night kill and be in a better position to solve the game Day 2.

Dear players:
If my argument doesn’t seem logical or you’re actively against it, and/or furthermore, if you are scumreading me from anything D1, including this - just vote me and take a stand.

We need to do something.

What information will you have with a scum vs town flip here?

Who was actively pushing counter wagons, who was pushing more people to get put at e-1 to claim after snivy claimed VT, who seemed to have tmi if the flip isn’t red, etc. Voting patterns are only going to be indicative if snivy goes because of how consistent the wagon vs counter wagon has been.

I’m asking who would you find implicated with either flip

[JacksonVirgo]

Sorry for not being clearer with that

[JacksonVirgo]

Explain why hem is in both please Kay

[JacksonVirgo]

I was tempted to hammer myself to end the day, thanks for not making me do something I didn’t really wanna do

[JacksonVirgo]

Hammer, myself*

Not self hammer, goofy ahh

[JacksonVirgo]

Oh hey Kay

[JacksonVirgo]

<3

[JacksonVirgo]

I don’t think this flips red but there’s been enough of that talk lmao, see y’all d2

[JacksonVirgo]

If we aint in a tunnel d1 are we even living?

[JacksonVirgo]

btw if this flips red, Jack you are in trouble!

[JacksonVirgo]

Yo so I totally knew snivy was a wolf I was just trolling

[JacksonVirgo]

Honestly a mass claim with info isn’t a bad idea. We have the numbers. If we get 3 PR claims, we just kill the lesser important one, good one gets killed by scum, we kill the one left and we win. If they claim VT, we can do the same thing and we still have both PRs alive so one would survive the night for sure. We already have it narrowed down. Claiming might just make our win a sure thing in the next 2 days if not tonight.

We lose NKA if prs are killed, I don’t think it benefits us really until night before we reach elo. If a PR is pushed, they can just claim before getting limmed

[JacksonVirgo]

Theories on HEM being so resistant to the snivy vote?

Sure purple is sus but he wasn’t actively working against the correct lim for a week.

Its probably him or jackson
If its HEM it means dragon had scumread his partner from very early on the game without really a reason for this
Its make sense in general but kinda weird move
But it does align with the fact HEM kinda protected snivy

What's your read on ketchup? In comparison with anybody else

[JacksonVirgo]

i'm going to sleep and share my thoughts upon waking up, but I'm once again going to insist that there was no resistance to skitter/snivy's. like, objectively there was not resistance to snivy's wagon. so this implies:
a. scum either had no power to change that wagon and didn't attempt
b. scum attempted to but eventually backpedaled
c. bussed all along

suppose i can convince you that i won't get caught defending a doomed scum buddy and risk being the number one wagon-of-interest for the rest of the game, but i understand you don't really think much highly of me. smart people with above average IQ (they would be if they're playing here) will pretty much play to win, and they're very capable of convincing you that they're your friends.

Mhm, scum was very much ON wagon here.

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Flush

Back to this on e

[JacksonVirgo]

Halfasleep votes: ketchup, HA, KJQ, JV, HA, UV, DragonEater(hem)

Skitter30 votes: Jackson (come back to post 671, could be spewing), Flush, Jackson, Purple

Camel votes (could be more harm than good to look into this too deeply but for completeness): JV (oh that’s it… ok. Well! I feel camel probably doesn’t try to last ditch onto his scum partner, probably )

I'm goated, snivy clearly thought I was so townie they wanted me gone

[JacksonVirgo]

Ydrasse has commented about the so-called resistance, so just listen to the dead town if you're worried that you're getting corrupted info from me.

I am not saying that you must listen to us because we're more experienced (that was stated before) but in all my games I've played, snivy by FAR had the least resistance I've seen from a wagon in a while, especially a scum wagon. HEM and Ydrasse had both commented on this two so that's at least two townies seeing the same thing

[JacksonVirgo]

jackson better turn up with a redcheck

Even better! I'm turning up with my goated brain

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't like how Flush decided to hard focus/shade ketchup for the PR shit

[JacksonVirgo]

I don’t think zach and skitter were paired, a lot of zach‘s efforts were anti-skitter. e.g. 333, 938, 1240...

I don't think purple was paired with skitter/camel, because the purple counterwagons felt scum-motivated and not like a bus. also ydrasse had shown unwillingness to vote mango so mango killing ydrasse feels odd.

From 1218, it feels skitter was pushing flush for info in a not very SvS way, however this is a weak read.

From 215, KJQ coming up with a nickname for halfasleep feels like not SvS, because if they shared a scum PT KJQ might have asked there if she had a nickname she preferred to go by. Also KJQ and I just megapushed camel yesterday to ensure the lim which helps us look good, methinks.

its not me

this would leave my pool in jackson/hem, maybe flush.

Flush lessgoooo

[JacksonVirgo]

jackson better turn up with a redcheck

Even better! I'm turning up with my goated brain

Debatable

Love you too <3

[JacksonVirgo]

Guys I think we just win here with flush

[JacksonVirgo]

Which makes my D1 vote on them goated as fuck

[JacksonVirgo]

Guys I think we just win here with flush

Yeah well you think a lot of things

Bruh the shade lately from you is insane

[JacksonVirgo]

I’m extremely paranoid about ketchup rn so that might’ve been overreach. But what’s done is done, I’d love to do better mechsolving but two vanilla flips makes it hard

WHATS DONE IS DONE IS LITERALLY A MACBETH QUOTE OMG HES A SERIAL KILLER

VOTE: flush

[JacksonVirgo]

It's flush or ketchup but flush is flush so lets flush him down the toilet

[JacksonVirgo]

Voting a wagon isn't committing to the wagon

[JacksonVirgo]

Committing to a wagon is committing to a wagon is committing to a wagon

[JacksonVirgo]

Guys I think we just win here with flush

Yeah well you think a lot of things

Bruh the shade lately from you is insane

You wouldn’t listen to me when I was right and now I’m still being discounted. So I’m annoyed about it, yeah.

Where are you being discounted?

[JacksonVirgo]

i know but that’s already E-2 if I vote there

I don't see any issues with putting someone at E-2, only benefits

[JacksonVirgo]

Guys I think we just win here with flush

Yeah well you think a lot of things

Bruh the shade lately from you is insane

You wouldn’t listen to me when I was right and now I’m still being discounted. So I’m annoyed about it, yeah.

Where are you being discounted?

There’s no point in this argument. You and HEM can’t admit to being wrong and instead are dead set on voting the wagon because then it absolves your actions from D1 of all sus. And doing so means we ignore Purple which I don’t think we should be doing.

You can push whatever you want to be pushing, if you think it's suspicious then you can push it. Just because I'm saying my perspective on it, does not mean it's discounting yours and I worded my posts extremely clearly to try not and push experience through with this because I know how much you hate that. The facts are that 3 people saw how little resistence there was on the wagon and called it out. There's only one wolf left. 2/3 of ydrasse/hem and myself are town and saw the little resistance to the wagon.The only issue here I'm seeing is you possibly discounting us because you scum-read what we did because of the outcome.

The argument with the resistance is that there was next to no way that any other wagon was going to be formed, a few started yeah but Snivy's was locked in. You maybe don't see that because of your perspective but I actively hard pushed against snivy when I started town-reading them and I got nowhere with it. The conclusion I have made from that is that scum were not actively trying to push against the wagon, but instead decided to cut their losses and park on the wagon OR didn't want to risk anything from straying too far from it. I think Flush's vote on the wagon is especially bad. I hated it in the moment and I'm hating it now.

I'm not saying you can't push us. I am obviously not going to be pushing myself. I wouldn't consider that discounting your arguments.

[JacksonVirgo]

At least 2/3*

[JacksonVirgo]

How are you so certain it can’t be HEM? You’re assuming he was in the same boat you were but how can you be certain he wasn’t the one trying to build a resistance against his partner? He used “experience” logic to explain why he’s never do the things he did as scum but isn’t that possibly just a strategy? Saying he’d NEVER do that because he’s so smart and experienced just gives him a reason to do it so he could look town. Sounds like you’re biased because all 3 experienced players were parroting the same ideas and so you feel supported. Doesn’t mean it’s impossible for you to be played.

I’m not saying you need to say he’s scum and vote him but it’s weird you won’t even keep him as a possibility.

It could be, I'm not pushing HEM because I don't believe he's a wolf. His logic through the end half of D1 was good to me. I acknowledged it, realised that he actually had decent points and then I couldn't not see what he was seeing (regarding the two snivy/purple specifically). I believe he's town because his mindset seems pure, I reciprocate a lot of the arguments he had used and from a particular point I didn't read as if he was trying to pull anybody along maliciously.

I said "never" as hyperbole to state my read on the situation, I thought you'd know how I play at this point but I guess not.

You say we're biased but by you saying that.. you realise you're discounting us?

[JacksonVirgo]

To be even more clear. From my perspective, HEM wasn't playing in a way to gather people to his wagon. He was and has been from pretty much the start of the game just casually trodding on through trying to solve the game when even myself at the time was barraging him for shit that didn't really matter. He was trying to solve the game, I can feel it in my BONES babe

[JacksonVirgo]

Weird stance to make from scum!flush

[JacksonVirgo]

Everybody is biased in their own way. That's the human experience. My read on it is based on my own logical analysis of the situation. If you thought I was trying to discount you based on me saying this, can I offer you a discussion about what i'm saying instead? Instead of throwing cease-and-desist notices on each others reads.

What part of my analysis on the resistance do you disagree with?

[JacksonVirgo]

To be even more clear. From my perspective, HEM wasn't playing in a way to gather people to his wagon. He was and has been from pretty much the start of the game just casually trodding on through trying to solve the game when even myself at the time was barraging him for shit that didn't really matter. He was trying to solve the game, I can feel it in my BONES babe

not gonna stop a snivy elimination, but i still think purple is the best elimination and i think i have the numbers anyway.

hem, snivy, jv, ydrasse, ketchup if it's also in his solve, kjq if she wants an elimination, and a forced hammer.

It felt like he was kind of trying to gather people?

Of course he was, that's the game. He wasn't focusing on that. He was focusing on a solve

[JacksonVirgo]

NKA is me assuming Ydrasse was a low-info kill because the scum liked the position they assumed D2 would start with. Which I would assume is exactly what is happening

[JacksonVirgo]

Everybody is biased in their own way. That's the human experience. My read on it is based on my own logical analysis of the situation. If you thought I was trying to discount you based on me saying this, can I offer you a discussion about what i'm saying instead? Instead of throwing cease-and-desist notices on each others reads.

What part of my analysis on the resistance do you disagree with?

I disagree that there was no resistance to the skitter/snivy wagon. I disagree that no one was pushing back. I disagree that your analysis means scum was 100% on the wagon.

So I'm not saying there was exactly zero resistance because that would mean everybody wanted Snivy which was clearly not the case. What I am saying is that there was a lot of resistance against the snivy wagon. From where it stood from my own perspective, and I am exaggerating of course to make a point, it felt like Snivy was red-checked and I was pushing against a wagon that was almost lock-scum. It was a wagon that dug itself into hardening concrete and was not budging even when I was putting my all into pushing against it, and onto a counterwagon. I don't expect a wagon to be THAT hard to push against in a general game, let alone one that ended up flipping a wolf.

I am assuming here that scum committed to a bus, either completely (like ketchup) or passively (like flush). They couldn't risk jumping off because they'd look bad so they stayed in some degree at the very least, feeding into the almost locked wagon yesterday. If scum was off wagon, I don't think the wagon would have done what it did or felt like it felt. I really don't see that as a likely possibility. Hence why I believe scum was on-wagon, and the scum I'm looking at is Flush specifically which I scum-read even before the flip even happened because of their awkward positioning and scummy behaviour which people just immediately disregarded

[JacksonVirgo]

Maybe you don't see how much resistance it had because you were on it, I'm not sure. That's my assumption here so I tried making it clear how I saw it

[JacksonVirgo]

Nah I really doubt it now

[JacksonVirgo]

Flush is almost appealing to me and HEM specifically if he's a wolf, which is a weird decision as we didn't have the thread control as much as Kay/Ketchup

[JacksonVirgo]

Ketchup, how strong is your purple read?

[JacksonVirgo]

I think the scum is in ketchup, flush and zach. It isn't Kay on the wagon, I want this clear.

[JacksonVirgo]

I feel Flush has been acting extremely opportunistic all day so far. He first jumped on Ketchup for that PR stuff. Then onto Kay when we had a disagreement of sorts. And now shading Zach.

[JacksonVirgo]

How about we focus on wolves and not about PRs

[JacksonVirgo]

wolves are in {jackson, zachson, flush, hem}. I just need to get one of you out of this poollll

Just take me out, you already pretty much did considering your old post with Snivy and me

[JacksonVirgo]

Aint no way you said zachson

[JacksonVirgo]

Doesn't really matter, if I'm wolf here I already won cuz I'm a god. So might as well take me out of your pool.

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm actually N2 bulletproof N3 homing missile (kills scum nmw)

[JacksonVirgo]

Nobody commented on my NKA

[JacksonVirgo]

Nah purple/ketchup are the masons

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm a rolecop I checked both of them N0 and N1 respectively

[JacksonVirgo]

MMm yum purple ketchup

[JacksonVirgo]

NKA is me assuming Ydrasse was a low-info kill because the scum liked the position they assumed D2 would start with. Which I would assume is exactly what is happening

I’ll comment on it then.

This is an interesting theory. I think it’s possible scum thought that since Ydrasse is an experienced player, her lying low could have suggested a PR (I hate this like of analysis yet other people seem to like it sooo…). Also they feared shooting me/KJQ in case we were protected. trying to work out which scumteam (A, B or C) it comes from I suppose

If scum were killing just based on experience, why wasn't HEM or myself shot? We were all on a similar enough wavelength, why shoot the person easiest to actually eliminate. Chances are it wasn't because of a PR-read because to shoot Ydrasse, I would assume they would have to be pretty confident and it just was wrong so idk. My mind is going straight to low-info shot because nobody was really focusing them at all to any reasonable degree.

I think neither Purple nor Zach makes that kill. I don't think Kay does either. HEM doesn't make that kill, nor do I (I'd have killed Kay here). The remainder is you/flush

[JacksonVirgo]

wolves are in {jackson, zachson, flush, hem}. I just need to get one of you out of this poollll

Replace Jack with purple and that’s where I’m at.

replace? why not just add purple in. do you really 100% think it’s not jackson?

I think you and Jackson are both in a place where I wouldn’t vote you until it was 3 people left and I’d need some sort of come-to-jesus moment.

brb organising my night kills to get to that ElO

That endgame would be us cross-voting, me spam flirting with Kay to get her to vote with me and she refuses and votes me and town wins. RIP my perfect scum game carry, this is so sad

[JacksonVirgo]

He’s admitted it, the plan we came up with in our private chat worked ketchup!

Oh no!

[JacksonVirgo]

It isn't

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Ketchup

[JacksonVirgo]

I solved the game

[JacksonVirgo]

oops that turned out kinda long

You don't even know

[JacksonVirgo]

I have two running theories in my mind, it depends on one assumption which is why Ydrasse was killed in particular. It's either my initial assumption which was a low-info kill, and them HEM's which would be an attempted PR-snipe. I personally think it's a strong combination of both.

Low Info Kill

In the world where Ydrasse was a low info kill, it would mean that the scum would be okay with the outcome Snivy's flip would have, considering HEM and myself were the primary pushback against a

scum flip

and the primary pusher (Kay, and to a lesser degree ketchup) had not been shot it means that they feel the game benefits to keep those people alive or that the scum simply cannot kill them (because they

are

them).

Hard pushing against a scum flip looks bad in all worlds, meaning the scum must have felt comfortable not killing those who would otherwise be extremely hard to eliminate when they themselves (HEM/JV) would be at a more severe risk. So from that line of thinking, that removes both HEM and myself from the scum pool. I called this out twice in the moment but Flush's actions also doesn't make sense with this assumption either, as they were town-reading both me and HEM going into today so the only way they're scum is if they thought the remaining town would just happen to take the push over which doesn't make sense if this kill was made for the reason to segment jv/hem further.

Guess who made this exact solve?

Spoiler:

this would leave my pool in jackson/hem, maybe flush.

Attempted PR Snipe

If the kill was made as an attempted PR snipe, which upon thinking further about HEM's thoughts I feel that this almost certainly has to do with it as otherwise I feel one of Kay/Ketchup would have been shot as it wouldn't affect the game too much with the mindset of keeping the game in the state that it's in. I feel the remaining scum making this kill in particular forces the remaining scum to have been thinking, at least a little bit substantially. Their focus being on finding PR is a strong hook as I believe one player has been playing, speaking and acting in a way that is almost entirely built upon finding the PRs. Guess who?

Ketchup's PR Hunting Mentality

I believe Ketchup's behaviour surrounding Flush in particular is the strongest thing that made me realise that they're the wolf this game. I believe with the logic that scum did kill to try and snipe the PR, the game-state benefitted them substantially I feel they felt they had the wiggle room to push a bit riskier socially to find who the PRs actually are. Their behaviour is weird surrounding Flush and pushing him to claim, I feel that they've already either deduced or even checked them if it's the rolecop world that Flush was not a PR and thus was not interested in pushing them because it simply

did not benefit

them to do so. They want to spread their wings out and get as much information as they can.

Anybody should be able to attest that they've been incredibly PR focused the entire game, which if that's just because I was the one that's always trying to shut down that conversation or call him out on it but it's been a repeated issue with him. I feel the reluctance on voting out Flush is obvious, Kay even called that out specifically and I believe it's because of this. I feel like his behaviour and his words don't line up properly. He makes it try to seem like he's okay with the wagon, he put Flush/Zach as his pool but he is also acting completely contradictory as it's very clear he actively

does not want flush

Spoiler:

hellooooo?

You backed off so now he won’t claim. Who would you rather vote?

maybe zach or I might come back to flush tomorrow i just wanted to see some stuff from zach and purple today before we blasted flush

i just think there are better places to lim, today at least

Who would you prefer to vote out right now?

Zach or Flush, but will check over Jackson and hem again at some point.

Shortly after this in his ISO, he had this awful progression showcasing his mentality of actively rejecting the idea of pushing flush even though he is very much in his solve and has not claimed (with Kay and I both being pretty headstrong about wanting to resolve that slot through a claim). His behaviour once again insinuates that he only wants to appear like he wants to push him (or wants to have him as a backup elim later when the information gathering phase is over and he wants to solidify an actual wagon)

Spoiler:

ik i messed up I’m back on flush nowwww

who would join me on a zach wagon?

Try it and find out!

VOTE: zach

There's also the behaviour around Flush's wagon earlier in the day where he felt reluctant to push Flush but even at that he clearly didn't have the mindset of finding scum. It was to get the claim and then jump off.

that's literally what these posts insinuate is his mindset here

Spoiler:

Not sure what to think but I won't be hammering. I have to go back and read things but I'm busy for the night sorry

yeah let’s not hammer until flush claims unless they outright refuse

Ketchup, how strong is your purple read?

strong enough to keep flush at E-1

Spoiler: Other PR hunting behaviour

Is it not sketchy of you to ask why I said that, trying to hunt our PRs?

jackson better turn up with a redcheck

yeah lets not massclaim, i thought hypoclaim could be ok but i dont know if its worth the risk

Obfuscating the real reason for killing Ydrasse

Spoiler: Reference Posts

NKA is me assuming Ydrasse was a low-info kill because the scum liked the position they assumed D2 would start with. Which I would assume is exactly what is happening

I’ll comment on it then.

This is an interesting theory. I think it’s possible scum thought that since Ydrasse is an experienced player, her lying low could have suggested a PR (I hate this like of analysis yet other people seem to like it sooo…). Also they feared shooting me/KJQ in case we were protected. trying to work out which scumteam (A, B or C) it comes from I suppose

NKA is me assuming Ydrasse was a low-info kill because the scum liked the position they assumed D2 would start with. Which I would assume is exactly what is happening

I’ll comment on it then.

This is an interesting theory. I think it’s possible scum thought that since Ydrasse is an experienced player, her lying low could have suggested a PR (I hate this like of analysis yet other people seem to like it sooo…). Also they feared shooting me/KJQ in case we were protected. trying to work out which scumteam (A, B or C) it comes from I suppose

If scum were killing just based on experience, why wasn't HEM or myself shot? We were all on a similar enough wavelength, why shoot the person easiest to actually eliminate. Chances are it wasn't because of a PR-read because to shoot Ydrasse, I would assume they would have to be pretty confident and it just was wrong so idk. My mind is going straight to low-info shot because nobody was really focusing them at all to any reasonable degree.

I think neither Purple nor Zach makes that kill. I don't think Kay does either. HEM doesn't make that kill, nor do I (I'd have killed Kay here). The remainder is you/flush

Ydrasse had the combo of r xperience and lying low. You and hem have not lied low (good, stay active! you are doing well and are on the money!).
In my first game, thomith‘s mini normal, I read mafia PT and outworlder pushed for the Delta kill because he was confident Delta was PR, yet he was wrong there. It’s possible a similar thing happened here.

I hadn’t really thought about who I would NK but to do a beacon of honesty I’ll think about it here now, assuming I didn’t know which of the 9 setups it was which is obviously not going to be true but anyway).

I would probably avoid killing kay. If I were a protective, kay is who I would protect. I might go for you, jackson, to shake things up and I don’t think you would be protected.

This is a pretty nonsensical analysis of what has happened and it feels like they're trying to push the conversation AWAY from talking about the reason Ydrasse was shot. Experience/Lying Low is the reason he believes ydrasse was shot when a scum flip happened, meaning an optimal kill for positioning is NECESSARY. He tries backing this up with an example immediately which makes me feel this was calculated. This entire post feels calculated, and also extremely out of touch of the gamestate so I feel this is an attempt to hide the fact that the kill was made for a specific reason (which I had spoken about above). The first quote of this quote tree also links to his pr-hunting mindset I called out earlier.

The fact it feels calculated but this post exists is insane

ah yeah i didn't even think about NKA

Unnatural Fixation on his (future) Scum Game + Regular Inconsistencies

I've argued this when I was pushing him day one, but I feel he is unnaturally and overly fixated on making statements for his future scum games or what a scum mindset would have. I feel this is his attempt at distancing himself from his own scum mindset as "why would scum talk about scum this much" or something along those lines.

Spoiler:

wolves are in {jackson, zachson, flush, hem}. I just need to get one of you out of this poollll

Replace Jack with purple and that’s where I’m at.

replace? why not just add purple in. do you really 100% think it’s not jackson?

I think you and Jackson are both in a place where I wouldn’t vote you until it was 3 people left and I’d need some sort of come-to-jesus moment.

brb organising my night kills to get to that ElO

There's been a few layers of inconsistencies they've had. Most notably when they said I was cleared through interaction from skitter but happened to just randomly ignore that later, even when I asked a question to gauge that in particular (too lazy to find the quotes) but here's another inconsistency

Spoiler: Inconsistency 1

Ydrasse was going to be in my pool for today though so I need to reevaluate

Mine too honestly so the kill is kinda odd. I feel like scum knows you and I are probably cleared and we’d be pushing those off the wagon. Unless they were sure (incorrectly) ydra had a PR, killing her was a bad idea because if scum didn’t vote their partner, the pool is small. She was the only vote on snivy that we could really see as sus.

i think it was probs a mix of PR hunting and fearing they hit a protect

ah yeah i didn't even think about NKA

[JacksonVirgo]

Ketchup is scum. Let's end this game

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Ketchup

My man you are a ray of hope in this sea of shitty wagons

VOTE: ketchup777

My guy, we're winning this!

[JacksonVirgo]

I was going to go through and link all the posts where he was in his future scum game fixation, and all the inconsistencies but I feel that's overkill but I can later if somebody wants me to show them explicitly

[JacksonVirgo]

You are at E-1 too btw, do with that what you will

[JacksonVirgo]

Okay I’m thoroughly confused. I got snivy, I guess you guys can figure out the partner. If you’re wrong and I’m alive day 3, maybe things will make sense. But as it stands, I townread ketchup all game so I’m obviously pocketed or blind if that’s the solve.

I don't think you're blind, I feel he's definitely pocketing you pretty substantially if he is a wolf here.

[JacksonVirgo]

Ah fine let’s just go for it

I am already voting flush

If the consensus is on-wagon, I know it’s not me. I was fighting a losing battle asking people to still consider purple so this has to be our next move.

I trust you. In time you will trust me (:

Ah fine let’s just go for it

I am already voting flush

If the consensus is on-wagon, I know it’s not me. I was fighting a losing battle asking people to still consider purple so this has to be our next move.

I trust you. In time you will trust me (:

I do trust you

aw yay!

Especially with comments like this. I also feel many times he's tried pocketing me as well

[JacksonVirgo]

"trust me bro" threats aren't welcome here . Just please respond to my post, claim if you want to and move on. If you're town we still have the advantage with the scum D1 flip

[JacksonVirgo]

Why are you so heavily insinuating you're a PR? Either claim or don't

[JacksonVirgo]

If you are, I'll pivot off. For now I'm almost entirely convinced it's you as a wolf

[JacksonVirgo]

While we’re waiting for ketchup, can someone explain to me why purple not voting D1 removed him from the sus list? I don’t understand why only the wagon is sus and why it HAD to be a bus. I just need to understand this before I can move on from purple.

I'll explain this soon, sorry that I can't rn

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't wanna half-ass explaining my reasoning there

[JacksonVirgo]

Why did you make this move?

[JacksonVirgo]

I meant why did you block Mango

[JacksonVirgo]

Lmfao this is honestly amazing, I love a clean sweep of a game. This is fake

[JacksonVirgo]

Why would you fakeclaim PR as a wolf? When you'd just get cc'd and die

[JacksonVirgo]

I am cc'ing you

[JacksonVirgo]

I am honestly baffled at why you'd do this as a scum or as a town. If you did this as a town... why? You revealed me unnecessarily

[JacksonVirgo]

Let's hammer this. If you're town, don't do this again

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm not claiming what I am, but what I am makes your claim impossible

[JacksonVirgo]

Are you backing off from your claim or are you keeping it?

[JacksonVirgo]

Lol I know exactly why you did this as a wolf lmfao. Honestly I'm kind of impressed

[JacksonVirgo]

Waiting on ketchup to retract or not, before I say anything more

[JacksonVirgo]

Are you backing off from your claim or are you keeping it?

I mean, I'm keeping it. sorry, of course, you dont have to reveal what ypu are. but you cant possibly cc me, becuase, I am jk.

Gave you the option. I'm Tracker.
I tracked purple to you last night.

My analysis of this game puts them as friendly neighbour.
I assume you're a role cop that checked flush so you wanted to widen your pr hunting to someone that isn't them.

You claiming this was smart. Purple keeps the claim going cuz it's a pr-trade to "keep them safe" so you can survive this elim because of a PR claim but also retract it later after you kill purple so you're not at risk of getting cc'd.

I tracked the single person I needed to catch you in this claim, that's hilarious

[JacksonVirgo]

Lol, honestly I was a little shocked why you'd make this play but it makes sense. Sorry I targeted the single wrong person, that must feel so shit cuz otherwise it was an amazing play (if my assumption on that is right)

[JacksonVirgo]

like, if i am scum and purple friendly neighbour tracks me, why do i claim to jaileep them, why not just explain whyi was acting weird to purple? i dont get it

You're at E-1

[JacksonVirgo]

You claiming this was smart. Purple keeps the claim going cuz it's a pr-trade to "keep them safe" so you can survive this elim because of a PR claim but also retract it later after you kill purple so you're not at risk of getting cc'd.

This

[JacksonVirgo]

…..what is happening

Babe can you hammer? <3

[JacksonVirgo]

Good play undermined by rand... now I feel kinda bad for you

Vote stays where it is tho

I know, it's really unfortunate cuz that's such a cool ass play. I'm super impressed by it

[JacksonVirgo]

Nah purple/ketchup are the masons

I'm a rolecop I checked both of them N0 and N1 respectively

Me trying to gauge from ketchup's reactions whether it was a FN

Theories on HEM being so resistant to the snivy vote?

Sure purple is sus but he wasn’t actively working against the correct lim for a week.

Its probably him or jackson
If its HEM it means dragon had scumread his partner from very early on the game without really a reason for this
Its make sense in general but kinda weird move
But it does align with the fact HEM kinda protected snivy

What's your read on ketchup? In comparison with anybody else

Me trying to see how they felt cuz it could be a JK/Doc/FN from my perspective.

[JacksonVirgo]

Why did you make this move?

I meant why did you block Mango

Me speed correcting myself cuz I realised it could be a town doing a gambit.

[JacksonVirgo]

Bruh, please just flip red

[JacksonVirgo]

i forgive you for not taking longer on why i did this as town jackson, but please dont rush into a CC immediately again. i hope you can forgive me. i appreciate im not in much of a position to give advice

Nah nah nah, there was no way I would ever not counterclaim you here. I gave you an option to back out of it, why didn't you?

[JacksonVirgo]

If you're town, there's no hard feelings here btw. I understand why you would have done it but that's so painful cuz I was doing so well hiding the fact it was me I thought.

[JacksonVirgo]

I hope you're wolf cuz that play would be god-tier

[JacksonVirgo]

And you can read mine lol, my descent into madness (not really)

[JacksonVirgo]

Though please... just be a wolf

[JacksonVirgo]

Wait so you weren’t even 100%? Ahh what’s happening

I was 100% that the claim was fake, but apparently he is claiming he was fake-claiming as town