Open 716: Making Friends and Enemies [Game Over]

[GuiltyLion]

i guess my preferred lynch order is

Mylo -> brass (if Mylo town) -> GC (if both town)

Mylo -> Dino (if Mylo scum) -> brass

[GuiltyLion]

but don't just blindly sheep me on that, make people actually justify their scumreads

[GuiltyLion]

brass who do you think is scum

now that I'm town and your Mylo/GL theory is disproved

[GuiltyLion]

I WAS NEVER REALLY TOWNREADING HIM ENOUGH TO BET THE GAME ON IT

[GuiltyLion]

if we agree there's at least one scum in {GC, GL, brass, Mylo}, it's just a matter of who you all feel the most comfortable of betting the game on being town

I guess for me right now that's Mylo?

THIS IS THE ONLY POST WHERE I EVER SAID THAT

AND YOU'RE HARPING ON IT AS IF IT WAS SOME LOCK READ THAT I WENT ON ABOUT FOR PAGES

[GuiltyLion]

and I may be at the point where I'm more comfortable betting the game on GC being town than Mylo

followed by this within the same day

[GuiltyLion]

if we agree there's at least one scum in {GC, GL, brass, Mylo}, it's just a matter of who you all feel the most comfortable of betting the game on being town

I guess for me right now that's Mylo?

Unclear how you're putting mylo at confirmed town over me. Like, taking the totality of your posts about both players, I don't see how you're coming to that legitimately.

yeah idk either - I think my thinking there was if brass is town then I'm slightly more sure of you being scum than Mylo - like I think it's a more likely game-losing state on brass->GL->Mylo mislynches than brass->GL->GC mislynches. But I also do think in a vacuum he's been scummier than you have

also again, I don't really bus, I can point to multiple scum PTs where I say this

and Math my progression on dave is basically because I was townreading GC and I thought he made a really solid dave case. I don't think I ever had him as locktown, especially after the BuJaber scumflip D1

AND THIS

[GuiltyLion]

Mylo/Dino, final call

the pre-GL lynch and post-GL-lynch discrediting almost has to be scum-motivated

town!Dino knows to take me seriously here

[GuiltyLion]

Edit: by my memory i've been roughly fine with lynching basically everyone on the dave wagon except you

And uh, Mylo

I'm not doing this because I'm salty, I'm doing this because Mylo has not played a town game and you have steered the lynch away from him for two straight days now and I want to make that abundantly clear to everyone

You need a sharp towncase on Mylo aside from just "no partners" because you look like a super obvious potential partner

[GuiltyLion]

Like I'm more conftown than you and I'm saying Mylo is scum

[GuiltyLion]

Also you made a lot of noise about how you had davesaz as a lockdown read but I don't really remember you engaging or pushing back against GC's case which caused the wagon. I probably should have thought about that angle earlier

[GuiltyLion]

I knew you were town until you made two objectively bad lynches in Gamma and myself over just lynching a useless Mylo slot

[GuiltyLion]

Also if you would bus Mylo if you were scum then why can't scum be trying to bus Mylo here?

[GuiltyLion]

Anyway I think it's either Mylo scum or brass/GC

So lynch Mylo and brass I think

[GuiltyLion]

I got hammered - have suggested lynching Mylo next, Dino flipped out and says that's still stupid despite the fact that I'm now conftown, we argue about it for 7 pages

that's basically it

[GuiltyLion]

also I kinda doubt scum!brass fucks around in twilight like this, he feels more carefree than I'd expect

he didn't really react at all to the shade I threw at him

[GuiltyLion]

GL from my POV who's scum

would you be willing to get lynched yourself if the town refuses to lynch Mylo on your green flip and lynch brass afterwards?

[GuiltyLion]

Spoiler:

I wish I did, but not really other than some of his votes feeling opportunistic.

further, I agree with this and I'm wondering if brass is a better lynch than GC or Mylo. I know some have decided his interactions with BuJaber are unlikely to be a bus, and I occasionally feel this way myself, but everything else he's done this game is fairly safe and scummy. And I don't really see his vote on BuJaber as impossible to be a bus - he entered the game with it, then unvoted, then decided he "wanted back on" and then didn't really push much after that.

He was on the Mylo wagon several times but hasn't shown any interest in pushing it today. And a number of his votes have been all been careful and opportunistic, and often justified by the gamestate rather than the player's play

Recent posts by Green Crayon are pretty okay. Also, Math, in regards to your list of lynches, I really dislike lining up all the lynches beforehand in any order. We need to be able to adjust to new information. I will not be following some preset list of lynches for you.

I'm also a bit curious as to why Mylo came in, said he talks more day 2 and says nothing else other than go with the idea that never gets him hanged. My vote looks good there while I drink my coffee this morning.

VOTE: Mylo

The "my vote looks good there while I drink my coffee this morning" feels awkward and over-explainy

VOTE: davesaz

The case here seems good, and the Mylo wagon is totally stalled.

GC already pointed out that the "Mylo wagon" wasn't really stalled, just slow developing. It was still the leading wagon.

Well, with a vote count, I'm willing to switch over. That fake town tell is something I have only seem scum do.

VOTE: Gamma L-1 for reals.

The "fake town tell" was enough to L-1 his prior townread Gamma, despite the fact that other players (both Mylo and myself) had said it looked like a town reaction?

Okay, looking at Math's scum game, I'm willing to say this is closer to a town play for him than a scum play. He is good as scum as well, but I see enough differences to give leeway to him. Also, I'm not sure that scum would commit so fully to continually telling us how many mislynches we have. That just feels more towny than anything else. I guess for now I am willing to follow him while his reads at least partially align with mine anyway. I don't think GC is scum, I believe I explained that Day 2, so, a Mylo lynch today for me if I'm following Dino's lynch pool.

VOTE: Mylo

I called this out earlier:

I agree that brass' interactions around BuJaber were decent but he feels stiff and careful in a lot of his posts/votes. like 1401 feels like a really careful post

This game is stagnant. I want to end the day because right now we are going nowhere to that end

VOTE: GuiltyLion

^justifying his vote with the game being "stagnant" rather than me being likely scum

here's my brass case again

the thing is yeah brass/GC just feels like a really weird team. maybe GC is getting buddied by brass

I guess lynch brass first instead of Mylo if we want, but don't just roll over to GC on a green brass flip.

[GuiltyLion]

Guilty, this might seem like a weird question, but what was your initial ping on brass?

1401 was the big one, but a lot of it was the lack of urgency to gamesolve on D2 - most of his pushes (other than BuJaber D1 vote and early D2 push) have felt fairly convictionless

[GuiltyLion]

GL from my POV who's scum

would you be willing to get lynched yourself if the town refuses to lynch Mylo on your green flip and lynch brass afterwards?

this is a dumb enough question that i'm not answering this lol

you're not very good at convincing people that you're town

like it should be obvious that there's enough paranoia about you/Mylo that it's worth acknowledging that your TR on Mylo is so strong that you'd be willing to be flipped first?

why would you sass me here

[GuiltyLion]

like Math you spend all day shitting on my brass scumread, then I'm conftown and you magically pivot to "it's obvious brass is scum" and get annoyed that I'm actually still trying to entertain the idea of brass being town partially because of all your pushes against the brass scumread

[GuiltyLion]

early D2 push

also this should be early D2 *GC push

[GuiltyLion]

whatever, flip brass first and this should all be irrelevant

[GuiltyLion]

you've only cooked up a single scenario in which a fraction of my play is consistent with scum-me/scum-mylo.

and also this was basically your entire reason for mislynching me wrt to the many obvious reasons why I don't death tunnel BuJ D1 so don't act all holier than thou lmao

[GuiltyLion]

like it's real obnoxious how you act like your reads are so great when you now also have to admit FYPOV that I was completely right about brass and you ignored that in favor of lynching me instead

[GuiltyLion]

Hey great game everyone! I think this felt like a team win, despite the mislynches we still had pretty good town synergy throughout, picked off brassherald right when we needed to, and never let scum get to be unquestionably top tier town enough to lose the game. Masons hid as well as they could have after that dave kill. also fwiw I agree with MathDino's self assessment of his own play, he did a great job obvtowning and creating a lot of game solving content, and I say that as someone he mislynched haha. I think on average towns play better when they're still relatively strategic about their mislynches and manage to still be working together the whole time rather than letting one person drive.

The kind of environment we had in this game is much harder for scum to keep pace with, which is part of why I felt more and more confident about GC being town because I think he was dropping a lot of subtle nuanced looks at things that are much more difficult to emulate as scum. I did kinda derp out by not putting more shade on Ank for the brass interactions, but it was tough to try not to reveal any masons either so it was a more partial lens on the game

[GuiltyLion]

dave wagon*, not just the kill

[GuiltyLion]

also great play by Alisae in LYLO I appreciate the amount of effort and thought that you put in!

[GuiltyLion]

mislynched GL who seemed to change his mind faster than ranmaru

oh honestly though this is something I feel like is more of a towntell for me historically

like recently when I've been scum I've been trying to get better about faking genuine uncertainty and flip-floppiness because I tend to be a lot more calculated in trajectory changes

[GuiltyLion]

and as always thanks to Aster for modding a very smoothly run game. sorry about using your color that one time

[GuiltyLion]

I think one thing that randomly worked out really well for this game was Mathdino and I both correctly townread the opposite players for most of it, so even though a couple mislynches got through there weren't really many available lazy wagons for scum to coast on. Like Math did a good job shielding Mylo and I feel like me townreading GC/verydark shielded them a bit. and then the rest of the people were both rather town by play and mason candidates so scum didn't have a big mislynch pool and would have had to pick some serious battles to stay deeply engaged

[GuiltyLion]

oh I agree that verydark replacing out was a large factor too, but I guess what I was trying to get at may be part of why you were townreading Mylo and how verydark survived for so long without claiming. like if you were gonna push Mylo then you would have had to battle Math on it especially as the game went on. verydark being off the dave wagon was pretty helpful in keeping him away from being lynchbait too though