Open 774 || Purgatory — Game Over

[Something_Smart]

Holy shit that hydra comp.

Glad this game is nightless.

[Something_Smart]

And I'm non-voting town.

[Something_Smart]

So I can play with you guys for more than one day phase :3

[Something_Smart]

Who's in it? i don't know all the heads

Krazy, Taly, Ankamius, Enter.

[Something_Smart]

I am plenty of fun.

[Something_Smart]

Was a somewhat obtuse joke. I'm town who is currently not voting, just as pops is scum who is currently voting

[Something_Smart]

Greeting tell is not awful on newbies, right? Is Homura a newbie?

[Something_Smart]

Or it might hold for newbies in newbie games specifically.

[Something_Smart]

Fair enough.

[Something_Smart]

At first I thought I didn't like that response, either.

But I thought about it a bit and I actually think it's perfectly reasonable.

[Something_Smart]

Why is pops scum?

Oh cool I'm voting scum.

It wasn't my finest work, I get it.

[Something_Smart]

Also hi Taly \o/

I figured that was you from the video anyway

[Something_Smart]

Isn't the EV 50%?

[Something_Smart]

I guess it's slightly less because of judgement day scum wins.

[Something_Smart]

Also it can't be the most scumsided approved open setup, because Stack the Deck still exists.

[Something_Smart]

Give me a townread S_S

Amrun. 53 doesn't sound S -> T, and her page 4 content is solving-oriented.

and perhaps some thoughts over less vocal people {Looker, Elmo, Homura, Phi Kappa Phi}

Homura leans town for being casual, and no opinion on the other three.

[Something_Smart]

Thoughts on implosion?

Really weird, not enough data, ask again later.

[Something_Smart]

Comfortable with being lynched for it, but I need PKP (or their replacement) to post at least once before I take this game seriously. Consider it a safeguard against lurkscum.

[Something_Smart]

wooooooper!

[Something_Smart]

Homura/Amrun nonzero s/s equity off like the scent of openers

Yes I agree, that's why I was careful to note that post was not S -> T.

Failing to note that burned me in G&R III when I saw a post that I correctly judged wasn't S -> T and I assumed it was T -> X when it was actually S -> S.

[Something_Smart]

iirc pops likes to interact with her scumbuddies a lot.

[Something_Smart]

also, is wooper an alt? They're sound familiar with everyone in the hydra :O

Wooper is absolutely terrible. He's pretty much the worst

[Something_Smart]

do you think it's particularly likely that the engagement with wooper would've gone the way it did if they were both scum?

I don't think anything in that convo is out of the question as S/S.

[Something_Smart]

I don't see town pops yet. Doesn't mean I won't, but afaik scum-pops is defined as "lack of town-pops" so scumlean I guess?

Wooper doesn't seem to be caring about how he's perceived, which is towny.

[Something_Smart]

What was this based on?

Oh. It's really brazen for scum to call out a townie who may or may not be a newbie for a greeting tell, which could easily blow up in your face if they aren't a newbie, or even if they are but people think it looked opportunistic.

On the other hand, it's a reasonable way to distance and play dumb with a partner.

[Something_Smart]

Where's S_S been btw.

Was at a game night yesterday. What's up?

[Something_Smart]

But if you're going to say S/S is a possibility, then explain how and what defines "town pops" since you're more confident with wooper

Hmm.

I mean, it's tricky.

Probably the best thing I can say is that pops as town tries to provoke people to get information out of them and work with people to sync up reads with them. Pops as scum just kinda treads water? In my experience she tends to banter and deflect attention rather than diving into stuff.

But like I said, it's always possible she just hasn't had the time or the motivation to do what I consider diving in. And pops, this doesn't mean I think you haven't been solving at all, I just think most of what you've said is shallow enough that it would be pretty easy to produce as scum.

[Something_Smart]

I'm not defending you. Honestly I'd rather you sent to hell.
But your obv town.

Say what now?

[Something_Smart]

If you want them out of the game, why wouldn't you want them sent to heaven rather than hell?

[Something_Smart]

Who said Im not standing by that? Just because I say something is possible doesn't mean I'm not saying it can't happen.

[Something_Smart]

He seems to be using a site reputation basis for my scumrange instead of a personal experience basis for my scumrange, having played in two of my most sloppily played scumgames and none of my stronger performances but still stating a strong belief I can fake good shallow analysis as scum.

It's absolutely based on personal experience. I don't know that I've heard anything secondhand about what your scumgame is like.

I don't think your analysis this game is deep, and you can fake shallow analysis as scum, because that's extremely easy.

[Something_Smart]

Also, I don't think implosion is being scummy.

[Something_Smart]

When I roll scum I don't find asking the mod for a VC easy, let alone shallow analysis.

To play scum is to endure pain.

Okay but like it's not like you're just gonna roll over and die. In both of those games you made a token effort; in G&R II you actually made more than a token effort and avoided being caught reasonably effectively.

[Something_Smart]

night 2 I was shot.

Along with half the rest of the game. You weren't shot because you were scummy.

[Something_Smart]

going to sleep now. if I'm hammered overnight gl town. idk who to heaven tomorrow

[Something_Smart]

I don't want that to be a town post because like, come on man. You can do better than playing the victim and shitty unhelpful AtE.

[Something_Smart]

On a scale of 0 to 10, how clearly are you able to visualize images in your mind's eye?

2

On a scale of 0 to 10, how clearly can you hear with your mind's ear?

4

These are rather brilliant questions, nicely done.

[Something_Smart]

Many factors are converging to make me believe there is at least one scum in {pops, wooper}. One such reason is that it's taken this long for someone to FoS me for being noncommittal, meaning scum haven't wanted to do it for some reason.

There are many possible reasons but the easiest one is that they (or at least some of them) know me too well to be able to get away with that.

[Something_Smart]

I kinda think I'd prefer to see STRQ go one way or the other before wooper does. Leaning toward pops atm but it would be nice to see STRQ and wooper put together a summary of their arguments against each other.

[Something_Smart]

S_S I would like to see place a vote sometime in this game.

It will happen, don't worry. We still have 2 days.

[Something_Smart]

Lmao.

[Something_Smart]

Implosion's post, or mine?

[Something_Smart]

yours

how does that make you feel?

Firstly, glad that you weren't talking about implosion.

Secondly, mildly surprised? I thought I did shenanigans like that in PYP and AvP.

[Something_Smart]

Jesus Dann all those empty pedits made me think my phone was shitting the bed

[Something_Smart]

Why is Amrun a wagon here

I am confuse

[Something_Smart]

Even worse, why is Amrun

the

wagon?

[Something_Smart]

Because no one wants to help me lynch Elmo. Would you be interested?

You see a scum agenda from Elmo? Where?

[Something_Smart]

Ironically I feel like there might be one scum in {you,pops} but that has a lot of "no youuuuu" about it and is very much a cursory feeling

I have no issue with being OMGUS'd as long as you back it up with reasoning. Why do you think that?

[Something_Smart]

she's like kinda wolfy

Go on...

[Something_Smart]

Pick as many as you want {You can make out agendas this early? / Very polished response. / I'll take that as a no.}

{Usually I can at least place people on a scale of how agenda-driven they look, and Elmo looks pretty non-agenda-driven to me. It looks like she's just saying whatever she happens to think at the time which is highly correlated with being town. / Thanks. / Correct. I'm not worried about Elmo at the moment, and I'd much rather sort out this pops/wooper/STRQ/S_S mess that's starting to spring up.}

[Something_Smart]

Exactly what I said. My stomach is funny about your post and I still don't know whether I dislike that it came from you, or dislike that it jars with a read I'm kind of biasing. like if I had to reflexively vig one of you, last night I would've reflexively vigged you. Right now I have no idea which way I'd go.

You said basically nothing besides "gut" though. I should hope that you can at least pinpoint what your gut thinks scum-me is trying to accomplish there that town-me would not be?

[Something_Smart]

what's your take on amrun?

She seems to be pretty much playing in an ideal town way so far? Commenting, questioning, providing reads with reasons, not trying to control the game or provoke people, and encouraging cooperation.

Obviously scum are capable of playing that way, but I don't really see how she's scummy.

[Something_Smart]

For the record, at the very least something wooper (and others) can note after the game, to the best of my knowledge I exited my scumrange earlier today. I think around 436.

[Something_Smart]

I probably should have said this before, but I was seeing TvT archetypes coming from the Ank/wooper argument. Obviously this is an extremely holistic impression, I wouldn't even call it a read, but I can follow the trajectory of that conflict very easily if it's TvT. This was before this page, and the posts on this page have reinforced it somewhat. This is one reason I'm more interested in pops today.

[Something_Smart]

@S_S: who do you think has the best handle on your meta, of this player list?

Ank probably has played the most games with me. I would say her I guess since she seems to be pretty good at sorting through the things that aren't alignment indicative for me, even if she isn't great at reading me overall.

[Something_Smart]

You feel certain that scum!pops knows where she should calibrate her tolerance for votelessness for you and your playstyle, and knows you know and others know, and is therefore sticking to it, but town!pops doesn't know where to calibrate it?

...No? You must be misunderstanding.

I think Looker, Ame, Elmo, and arguably Amrun and implosion are more likely to push my lack of voting as scum, so since that hasn't happened much, it vaguely raises the chance of each of those players being town. As I said it's not a strong reason and it's not the only reason I thought one of you and wooper was scum.

[Something_Smart]

It is interesting that you view your scummiest post as the exit of your scumrange.

It is interesting that you act as though you are the sole objective judge of what is scummy.

[Something_Smart]

Do I hold your scumgame in too high regard?

My scumgame is remarkably inconsistent. You might have the right upper bound in your mind, but your lower bound is probably too high.

I haven't played enough scumgames recently to really know for sure what it would look like, actually. I think baton pass was my last scumgame?? and it was quite different from any other I've played.

(And before you go omg how did he know he exited his scumrange, I know what went through my head in that post is not what would have gone through my head as scum.)

[Something_Smart]

I'm not, but I am a cynic on the validity of introspection in mafia in general, so I will give my read trumping priority over your own guesses about yourself, and I promise to give you the same right in discussing features of my own play.

I mean even if you don't trust my introspection, I have a leg up in knowing the color of my role PM...

[Something_Smart]

@S_S: would you say that, generally, it is within your scumrange to make a post where you describe exactly where you exited your scumrange?

Probably. Only if I actually felt I accomplished a level of genuineness I hadn't done as scum before. (See: baton pass where I said I was out of my scumrange constantly)

[Something_Smart]

But surely if I can't confidently say what I would or wouldn't post as town or scum, then YOU can't confidently say what I would or wouldn't post as town or scum, no?

[Something_Smart]

I kinda think pops is towny and wooper is scummy now :/

[Something_Smart]

Wanna see Ame's catchup though because that Looker read smells like a TMI.

[Something_Smart]

It's not that I will hard obstruct the Amrun lynch but I still don't really understand it at all.

[Something_Smart]

Everyone should provide exactly their top 3 town reads (no more, no less) and exactly 2 strongest scum reads.

Implosion, Elmo, Looker.

Wooper, Ame.

I don't feel strongly about either scumread, before I get any demands for explanation.

[Something_Smart]

Do they?

Odds are that's someone we wouldn't have sent to hell anytime soon, and now we have their flip and can reevaluate based on it rather than allowing them to continue to affect the game.

[Something_Smart]

@Something_Smart: What is TMI?

Too much information. In this context it means scum being too confident in a read because they know it is true.

[Something_Smart]

S_S, can you explain why you responded to Homura the way you did here?
Isn't it pretty straightforward that both alignments of Homura are going to say greeting tell doesn't apply to her?

I interpreted that post as claiming not to be a newbie.

[Something_Smart]

I said the tell only applies to newbies, and pointedly asked if she was a newbie. She said the tell doesn't apply to her. I really don't see what's unclear about that.

[Something_Smart]

It was far from clear that the only quality that might make the greeting tell invalid was being a newbie.

What's another such quality, then? And don't say "being town", since the greeting tell never claimed to be 100% accurate and so that wouldn't justify writing it off.

[Something_Smart]

I don't see the scum incentive implo. Empirically that kind of "massive effort but like is that really the thing you should aim the massive effort at" has been NAI or TI when I've seen it (recently Asriel Dreemurr in a micro)

I mean some people just ~effort~ as either alignment and as scum they need to find some things to ~effort~ about.

[Something_Smart]

I don't feel good about voting anyone.

Story of my life tbh.

VOTE: Ame I guess. Around till deadline and willing to switch.

[Something_Smart]

You mean Ame will be easier to read in future days?

[Something_Smart]

Yeah. I think I'm basically drawing your vote onto myself with this dialogue given your hard Amrun townread but :shrug:

No you aren't because the same holds true for you as well.

I don't have a hard Amrun townread, either, it just feels like the pressure she's received is way disproportionate to the bad things she's actually done, which is a red flag.

[Something_Smart]

Ah shit.

[Something_Smart]

Someone help me get a gamestate read.

Why did two wagons get to L-1 without either being hammered?

[Something_Smart]

I'm like sitting here rereading and am like, idk, Wooper seems kinda town

then in one post that read is just nuked LOL

-Q

What is the scum motivation in suggesting an eleventh hour wagon on you that would clearly never go through?

[Something_Smart]

I guess that's fair.

How would you feel if I hammered Amrun?

[Something_Smart]

what is the town motivation in suggesting an eleventh hour wagon that clearly would never go through?

To demonstrate how you feel and try to see how other people are feeling?

[Something_Smart]

How confident are you on the wooper read?

[Something_Smart]

Yeah. I don't want to hammer Amrun, it was just a hypothetical question.

[Something_Smart]

Honestly, I'm down to see what happens.

VOTE: STRQ

[Something_Smart]

I don't think I'm voting Amrun or wooper tbh

[Something_Smart]

(I thought editing his profile avi for meme value was +townie)

[Something_Smart]

SS did you ever read Starcraft 1?

-Q

No

[Something_Smart]

rrrrr

Ducky you have 50 minutes to convince me to spare you

[Something_Smart]

I think I'm amenable to that plan. Probably Looker for heaven because that slot tells us a lot about Ame.

[Something_Smart]

You don't seem to be trying to live...why not?

[Something_Smart]

0

Try to live please.

[Something_Smart]

It's not immaturity to play to your wincon.

If anything it's immature to let yourself die so you can get the moral high ground and go "I told you so!"

[Something_Smart]

Ame/wooper not S/S

[Something_Smart]

As it stands I'd rather bury STRQ because they're scum.

Then vote them, you don't have the plurality excuse anymore

[Something_Smart]

S_S where are you at rn?

Okay with helling either of you/wooper and then the other if the first is town.

[Something_Smart]

why is wooper scum?

why are people thinking we are scum?

I can't ISO to explain rn.

Your slot seems reactive almost across the board which is unusual. You don't seem to be trying to work with people either

Wooper feels like he's trying really hard to look like he doesn't care about things, like whether he is scumread, when he really should be caring about that stuff

[Something_Smart]

That's not correct.
I'm not jumping up and down and calling you all morons.
I'm not towncasing myself.

I accept I'm a lynch candidate today. I'm too experienced not to accept that. I do care a lot and I am finding scum.

I don't know that I've seen you on the ropes as town before

Let me go look at TM real quick

[Something_Smart]

3137 in TM sounds like exactly the thing you said you don't do

[Something_Smart]

He is already dead on plurality, I won't hammer

[Something_Smart]

STRQ you are well aware you get helled D3 if wooper is town right?

[Something_Smart]

No

[Something_Smart]

No way in hell we let STRQ and wooper see tomorrow.

[Something_Smart]

is there a universe we're both town?
It's ugly
but yes

It's called "ame is scum"

[Something_Smart]

Wait what

Which head is that

[Something_Smart]

I almost opened the day self-voting for heaven but I would like to take it a little slower than that. Besides, I think the idea of using the first heaven on a question mark and saving me for a later one has merit.

[Something_Smart]

Also, I'm absolutely terrified of having to do the inevitable judgement day by myself, if that happens.

[Something_Smart]

How does one be slightly...

Never mind.

[Something_Smart]

What do you want to hear?

[Something_Smart]

Pops, or maybe Ame.

[Something_Smart]

I like an implosion/Elmo/Looker/S_S townblock at least tentatively. I think if that townblock is correct and followed it's a guaranteed win, so we should spare the person in the block most likely to be scum so we get that information asap (and push back judgement day).

[Something_Smart]

Because judgement day provides another way to lose?

[Something_Smart]

S_S are you dsj?

Am I what now?

[Something_Smart]

Correct, I am not dsjstr.

[Something_Smart]

No, sounds like a coincidence.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: implosion

[Something_Smart]

Why?

Amrun's Ame vote was like, super mega uber sketchy. So we need a counterwagon.

[Something_Smart]

UNVOTE:
I don't think implo is the answer though.

He feels pretty different from G&R I to me.

[Something_Smart]

Do you have a strong read on Ame? If so, what is it?

Ame is null leaning scum for me because some of their stuff seems super agenda-driven but that could just be the methodical way they play.

But like I said before, I have three townreads, and if they're all right, we can win by heavening them. If they're NOT all right, I want to know sooner rather than later. So I don't want to heaven a question mark.

[Something_Smart]

All throughout yesterday you seemed very focused on getting people to agree with your reads and vote with you. Whereas I don't see you trying to understand other people's reads or work together with anyone very much.

[Something_Smart]

You're doing it now, which is good, but "open" is not the opposite of "agenda-driven."

[Something_Smart]

You asking people if they would vote me is one one of the things I was thinking of, yes. Because it very much treated your reads as a given and tried to shape the game according to that, rather than trying to create a dialogue on me (or with me) to sort me.

As I said this could be playstyle but I think I, and probably at least a decent amount of town players in that situation, would instead of asking "who would vote S_S?" be asking "how do people feel about S_S?" Yeah you were trying to see if there was agreement, but you followed it up with "S_S has done seriously nothing." so it really looks like you're trying to sway people into agreeing with you.

Another example would be 825, where you seemed pretty deadset on lynching anyone that wasn't wooper (though I don't think you ever came out and said that). I said a LOT of interesting things during those few hours before deadline and I don't think you ever really asked why or tried to understand, you were just concerned with whether we could make sure we lynch someone that you wanted to lynch.

[Something_Smart]

"Who would vote" and "how do people feel" are the same thing to me, they are both an attempt to draw out stances. I find the former more valuable, however, because it forces people to commit whereas people can just say how they feel without actually doing anything.

But the first doesn't cover the much more important underlying question which is not WHO would you vote but WHY would you vote them.

I can definitely buy that it's a playstyle clash. You wouldn't be the first person my playstyle has clashed with (hi pops )

[Something_Smart]

How come you haven't asked me elaborate on anything? You're of the opinion of creating dialogue to sort, but you haven't reached out to me.

I felt pretty disconnected and tilted by the wooper mislynch, not least because he's my friend and I actually felt really bad about killing him

And plus I'm anticipating that nobody will want to listen to what wooper said because that's how mislynched people are generally treated, and I'm not looking forward to it.

[Something_Smart]

This is the second time he has pushed a townblock of his own conclusion with all the empathy of a three year old pointing at a picture in a book when you sit across from her and can only see the cover. Implosion is one of S_S's townreads and he did not townblock implosion.

Huh? Implosion is in my townblock...

[Something_Smart]

I probably wouldn't be opposed to voting Elmo.

[Something_Smart]

I don't really consider that a big issue at present. I think implosion knows me well enough to eventually get a correct read on me.

[Something_Smart]

But the discussion regards an immediate heavening decision?

But it's not me who's going to get sent to heaven immediately.

[Something_Smart]

I don't understand how you reached that conclusion.

[Something_Smart]

Like not getting others onto it, that's fair. I think my interactions with Ame have indicated pretty clearly that I don't consider that a priority, especially early in the day.

What makes you think I haven't attempted to make a high quality decision? And what makes you think I'm being LAMIST, when I just said I didn't care that I wasn't being townread yet?

[Something_Smart]

It would be LAMIST if I brought it up unprompted, but you specifically asked about it.

[Something_Smart]

The why is implied (for example, pops responded with why she didn't want to vote you when I asked), and if it isn't provided it's followed up upon

Fair enough, I suppose.

[Something_Smart]

It certainly creates the impression that you're looking for people who will vote who you want without caring about their thoughts or reasons, though. But I understand that.

[Something_Smart]

I don't really remember him trying to affect the game much there. He was mostly just posting reasonable things, giving reads, and making votes with a normal amount of explanation.

But here he seems much more dynamic and much more concerned with actually getting people to understand his opinion and trying to understand theirs.

[Something_Smart]

Why do we care about the probabilities again?

[Something_Smart]

pops do you know of the term synchronicity and do you experience it often? (non-game related)

Of course, I love the Police!

[Something_Smart]

1082 guts me as a scummy post.

Stop being wrong popsofcscum :X

If it were just a snarky throwaway comment then yes I see how it might look scummy. But it's a genuine point. You guys are spending a bunch of time and effort trying to calculate probabilities for... what? To prove we should be trying to heaven town and not scum?

[Something_Smart]

I'd guess right now its pops with two of looker/elmo/SS looking to town up just enough to win a judgment day, with Amrun and us being the sacrificial hell lambs to get there

Explain EoD yesterday with S_S-scum and Amrun-town. Wooper had me as a hard townread, why would I let him die?

[Something_Smart]

I mean I could easily have justified it by saying wooper was towny in his final moments, which he was.

[Something_Smart]

That being said I still am more skeptical of you just refusing to commit to everything or make a decision, deliberately staying off both wagons and pushing the clock was kinda scummy

That's what I do when I don't like the wagons though...

[Something_Smart]

Like what should I have done in that situation? Try to push through a different option, and when that fails, bite the bullet and make a final decision between the two main wagons?

... because I did that. But because it was plurality, I didn't have to vote to implement that decision, and cutting the day short when so much was going on would be terrible.

[Something_Smart]

I guess if it doesn't impact the amount of time you'd otherwise devote to the game there's nothing wrong with it, but I would have assumed that it would.

But the thing about information heavening is that its utility is 100% in the fact that people's reads will change depending on the flip, and I doubt your simulation takes that into account. So the simulation can't really tell you anything about whether it's a good idea.

[Something_Smart]

If I am wrong on Amrun though, it's probably S_S.

I feel like I've been over this before...

Did you see my reasoning for why Amrun town makes me town as well? Do you have any issues with it?

[Something_Smart]

This feels like you're expecting Am to flip green though?

Not really, I just think it's worth noting that that world doesn't really make sense.

[Something_Smart]

This kinda weirds me a little.

Why?

[Something_Smart]

I mean, I can try to justify it without yours, but the argument assuming you are town is much stronger (if you're scum I look a lot worse for prevaricating and shading wooper while not directly intervening), and people were talking about that world anyway, so I might as well bring it up.

Also, I hope you feel better soon

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: STRQ

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: Amrun

[Something_Smart]

Okay, you've convinced me. I won't vote Amrun today.

VOTE: STRQ

[Something_Smart]

is this a serious post?

Semi.

If you are very confident that Amrun is town, I will trust it and not vote Amrun if you flip town.

[Something_Smart]

Sorry. Had to go help my sister move out of her dorm.

Anyone not voting STRQ, why not?

[Something_Smart]

Elmo
implosion, pops
Looker
Amrun

[Something_Smart]

I still think I'm cleared by my actions EoD1 now that I can't be scum with Amrun. Why do you disagree?

[Something_Smart]

I was very heavily prevaricating between wooper and Amrun, and despite professing a scumread on wooper, tried to wagon STRQ which didn't work. When it came down to the wire, I could have (and almost did) voted Amrun to keep wooper, who was hard townreading me, alive, which I could have easily justified by saying wooper's final comments were towny, because they were.

[Something_Smart]

The difference between me and Ame there is that wooper had me basically locked as town whereas he only townread Ame somewhat. And given that Ame and I had a lot of the vote mobility at that time, if it really was so heavily scum-controlled, we'd probably have been able to secure a lynch on Amrun which would set us up fantastically for the next day. Wooper pushes to heaven me or Ame, then he gets helled, etc. If I'm scum with Ame there we played it out massively suboptimally.

(Also, it would mean that Ame's wagon was all town aside from Ame themself, which is one of the reasons I'm townreading Elmo.)

[Something_Smart]

@Something_Smart: what's the EoD1 stuff that is supposed to clear you, I forgot.

See 1275. It's nothing in particular, just the fact that I tried really hard to sort wooper and let him die even though in the process of my trying to sort him he locked me as town.

And also, why aren't you seeking towncred for your role in killing STRQ?

Because my role in killing STRQ was mostly just sheeping wooper, and bussing isn't outside my scum meta anyway.

[Something_Smart]

I am massively irritated when people refer to something they did and insist it clears himself

I'm sorry :/ I'm not necessarily arguing that everyone needs to be townreading me for that or that it's a problem if you aren't, but I do know myself, and I do know that that doesn't play out the way it did if I'm scum. You can take it for what you will. If you don't accept the reasoning, we can chat about why not.

[Something_Smart]

I'm going to offer this proposal. Heaven me game goes on let me watch how this game plays out as we have a pretty good chance and my faith in so many reads is gone. This games gone down and were at in impasse for this day and heaven plays are a harder one then.otherwise. We need to get this right as we're in between a rock and hard place

What's the proposal here? Just that we do the thing that's clearly optimal from your POV?

[Something_Smart]

I'm fine with going to heaven as long as Amrun goes to hell tomorrow.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: Something_Smart

[Something_Smart]

We did it folks.

Curse you autolock, I was literally seconds away from hammering Amrun when wooper died :X