Open 779: Pick Your Power X/Y Game Over!

[Farkset]

hardclaim cop

Yeah, I’m as surprised to have got it as you all are, what can I say, luck of the Irish

I actually talked about it with farkran yesterday and this the most likely scenario. 2nd picker thinks that 1st most likely took cop and don't want to end up as vanilla as high picker. 3rd thinks in similar way. 4th and later think that they are too low to get cop and {1, 2, 3} took it for sure.
As result it if 1 refuse to pick it then no one does but there are some odds for last picker to catch it.

[Farkset]

~ker

[Farkset]

Hello

We did not get our pick.

VOTE: skitter why didn't you pick 42?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Sorry, i only skimmed posts, didn't notice 42 anywhere and i didn't connect the thoughts processes.

I wouldn't think it's AI though, and i have reasons to think that the top 4 slots are all town, so i'm fine voting down below so far

-Farkran

pedit: i don't believe scum needs this kind of info

[Farkset]

Scumcase us please

-Farkran

@skitter

[Farkset]

I can prove you that 4th is town. I asked elmo for that.
~ker

[Farkset]

fark, can you tell us why you think top 4 are Town?

No, but they are

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Scumcase us please

-Farkran

@skitter

- not sure why you're voting me over not picking 42 (admittedly could be nai and an rvs joke-post but you doubled down a bit later so i'd like to hear more about it)
- my best guess for your logic for why the three people above you are townie is something like 'i picked {what i perceive to be as the third-best option for town} and it's already taken so that person ahead of me is townie, and the fact that it was available at that point means that other players passed over it and picked the {second/first} best options so they're townie too'
it's gotta be draft related since iirc 2/3 of those people didn't post yet
and this logic is remarkably similar to what one of my partners (3rd highest in the draft; got jk) did to the 1st highest pick.

admittedly not much, but more than anything else i've got on p2 and figured it was worth probing and to see if i could use this to generate discussion (which it did)

Yes, the 42 thing was a poke, not an actual scumread, but you are correct that i have the top 3 players as >rand town and that's the reason why i'm fine voting below us, which includes you among the 10 people involved - do you perceive that as a scummy double down on you?

Besides, am i getting your case correctly in that you are voting us for performing a similar play to one of your past partners? Who was that, and in which game?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

We didn't pick vigilante

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Anyone else find my posts scummy?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Don't worry, i appreciate when i get quoted

However, please let's not turn into another "who is laziest" fest, it will be more fun if we don't.

I'd like to know who else scumreads my slot

-Farkran

[Farkset]

bold of you to assume i was thinking

Aren't you the mastermind of setups theories?

[Farkset]

I blinded your name with setup design for some reason.
~ker

[Farkset]

*binded

[Farkset]

Anyone else find my posts scummy?

-Farkran

What benefit is there to focusing on my claim from a town!perspective? Feels a lot like you're baiting a cop claim.

Uh... when did i focus on your claim - or at least - what did the quoted post have to do with that?

To be honest i think your claim is >rand town and i don't think i ever mentioned it in my precedent posts

OR, nevermind, it was kerset's first post. We don't care about that anymore, it was anecdotal.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

i think this is a tvt spat
if i'm wrong it's on dunn but i'm not vibing it rn

I have the same reads as skitter currently, which is one more reason why i don't understand why she voted us in the first place.

Skitter, i think you know where i come from and what i'm trying to do here. We can play this game together, i'm fine with it.

UNVOTE: .

Partial readlist goes like this:

TOWNREADS

DonCorleone
Dunnstral

MECH TOWNLEANS

JacksonVirgo
Brassherald
Doctor Drew

MINOR TOWNLEANS

Skitter

NULL

Everyone else

Kerset is not a fan of Dunnstral though - noted for posterity, i don't believe dunnstral is using a scum agenda here. If i had to be early wary of someone, it would be the people who picked #2, but that's too wifomy to swallow

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Why did you feel the need to make a readslist already

He loves making them.
~ker

[Farkset]

Do you know me, @cat?

Skitter, i think you know where i come from and what i'm trying to do here.

?

Do you not? It's ok if you don't. Actually it will work better if you don't.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Yeah I’ve played one game with you

So, what's scummy in what i did so far?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Do you know me, @cat?

Skitter, i think you know where i come from and what i'm trying to do here.

?

Do you not? It's ok if you don't. Actually it will work better if you don't.

-Farkran

i was scum in one of your newbies. I'm not sure what you mean by what you're trying to do here tho

Eh, that was my very first game on site. It still applies, but you may have paid less attention since you were scum and didn't need to sort my slot. We'll see later today.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

I always do readlists early. It helps me focus on what i am doing, and other people understanding my thoughts.

Why do you think it's busywork?

@Skitter, what do i always do in games?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

i'm speaking from experience of being scum in this setup twice, and i don't believe that scum would risk the chance of getting doubles and being put at the end of the draft on two different numbers

You are talking about games in which you were leading scum, aren't you? This is doctrine that you gave to scum and you are the reason why they haven't done that. With different call maker, i can see this happening.
~ker

[Farkset]

VOTE: Farkset

Feels like alot of noise for early D1.

> Sees a wagon going and adds weight to it without a basis reasoning.

This is a bad push.

VOTE: Doctor Drew

FTR obviously i don't care about the top slots, i only wanted to see who would pick up the argument with a town mindset and who didn't.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

All the people who previously voted me had reason to do it.

Doctor drew didn't, he just jumped on the wagon.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Mmmmmh Hectic would tell me if he was in a hydra here. Hectic is a friend.

I would still like to know if there are any secret alts though, it would help. But i guess they aren't gonna tell me.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

I don't dislike Cat Fever's take - i have been scumread early so many times for producing readlists, and it has always come from town. Worst case scenario it's NAI.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

plot twist: doctor drew is a hydra of doctorpepper and drew-sta and also doctor drew

Dude, this was told to you in secret.

Also, you were in Big 4 Mafia, right Ald?

RE: My one post and vote.

I subscribe to the Titus school of D1 sucks and is only good as a tool to use on further Days. When I see someone so eagerly trying to act as 'town leader' so early in the Day that raises red flags, really seems forced when town leader is something that just happens, whether mechanically or through something like an IC. What Farken did was very LAMIST and imo not genuine. I probably should have used different vernacular than noise, but I was trying to make the point that they are saying alot with out really saying much.

Also, harkening back to my Titus D1 viewpoint, I tend to skim and get a sense of the flow vs over analyzing every post, didn't even notice there were at votes on Farken......but, why is Farken so worried about the lynch, are you at L-1? I won't even bring up the OMGUS vote on me(as I bring it up lol).

Also I figured Melody wasn't Hectic, Hectic wouldn't vote me here. If you are here though give me a sign, we both know I am cult recruiter and totally would recruit you tonight haha.

What's your read on Dunnstral and skitter?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

I want to get a hold of why you would scumcase me as making noise/being lamist and then describing that as attempting to take a town leader position, as opposed to the two other most vocal players. What's the difference, in your opinion? Why is their content better than mine? Why did you cast a vote on the currently highest wagon when you only skimmed the thread, and then say you haven't been counting votes?

As for skitter, i assumed she would know how i play, but it's true that we only shared one game together where we were TvS so i shouldn't have expected that much, probably. Still NAI for skitter, but i townlean her, pending additional info.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

@drdrew

You are the one doubling down on a vote which you admittedly cast with little care. Why am i giving illusion, pretending to do stuff as opposed to actually doing stuff, in your eyes? Why are you saying that i omgussed you when i was clearly basing my game here on attracting votes to see who would cast one in bad faith? You have shown willingness to read dunn and skitter, so i assume either that A. You have isoed me too; or B. You haven't actually isoed anything

Case A you couldn't have missed the fact that i was attracting attention on purpose, so i ask again: why am i pretending?

Case B is a scumclaim so eh

Either way, you say you didn't count but i don't see it as a coincidence that you voted on the highest wagon with so little reason.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Are you fully caught up drpepper?

-Farkran

pedit: oh pretty clearly not lol, ok i'll wait

[Farkset]

So far I'm thinking scum can be in [Farkset, Melody]

Wanna add Skitter in just as gut. I feel like her contributions to the game are mostly set up driven and not scum hunting driven.

Why is melody scum?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Melody is more based on the vote to Drew

Sorry i missed this line

But i'd still like you to elaborate on your melody read. I think you are adjusting your reads to agreement bias, drpepper.

If you read 1 scum in farkset/melody, does it mean you see us as disaligned? Why is one scummier than the other? Why do you think the drew wagon is scumbased?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

So far I'm thinking scum can be in [Farkset, Melody]

Wanna add Skitter in just as gut. I feel like her contributions to the game are mostly set up driven and not scum hunting driven.

Referring to this, i want this elaborated

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Second day and we got two wagons of 4 members. It feels so unnatural to me.
Brass why are you such lazy person?
~ker

[Farkset]

Pending an answer from DrPepper, i think he's not scum.

I also don't see Datisi scum here, i have scumread Datisi in the hydra game for playing worse than this, content-wise (though he admittedly let Ausuka, the other hydra head, do all the heavy lifting). Unless datisi is known for caring about games more as scum than as town, it's a townlean for me.

I still don't like DrDrew entrance and followups, although if i am wrong there i can definitely see scum!melody trying to TMI and pocket me.

Wary of skitter, but still a townlean

Nothing new to report about Dunnstral

DonCorleone probably my strongest townread right now

Cat Fever has a bad grasp of the game in my opinion but i can see town trying to assess the situation and will probably improve

Alduskkel ISO is... worse than i would say from pure memory. Still early in the game but there's nothing that stands out or seems to be aimed at advancing the game with solving in mind, it's a scumlean

Brassherald sounds similar to Alduskkel, but with less content overall. I don't particularly fancy that, i'd like some more independent thought from there.

Same about Jacksonvirgo

Need more content from Clemency and Almidia

-Farkran

[Farkset]

I still don't like DrDrew entrance and followups, although if i am wrong there i can definitely see scum!melody trying to TMI and pocket me.

-Farkran

You're right there, melody <3

You have been agreeing a lot with me here, and you have shown knowledge of my play, but i don't know who you are and i have been hardpocketed this way in the past - i'd still like to see more independent thought from you too. Your questioning doesn't look bad, but the conclusions are currently in line with consensus, so it's not particularly AI with your timing. Overall, my read on you is probably pending post-flip VCA.

-Farkran

pedit: oh, i don't particularly care about how you call me, my name has been stretched so many times and i have fun reading grammar mistakes most of the times. Besides, this is a hydra of Farkran and Kerset, so things get even more complex

[Farkset]

Unless datisi is known for caring about games more as scum than as town, it's a townlean for me.

Wait what? You've somehow reached the same conclusion as me via the exact opposite logic?

Well, my only experience with Datisi shows him caring waaaaay less than he's doing in this game, and he was town

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Melody, I asked for scumreads and you only gave townreads...?

Also RC isn't in this game. (I'm prepared for a woooooosh if I'm missing an inside joke.)

RCEnigma's alt is in this game. I'm not outing him.

~Dawn

Oh. Gotcha.

That... might change things, if i got it right. I think i only played once with RCE, but i toneread him town when he's scum.

Also uhm, what's your thoughts about andusk? You are answering him but you left him out.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Let's try it.

VOTE: Alduskkel

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Multiposting as overnight catchup, starting here

Just a quick check in, should have stated I had to work all day today and gotta be back early tomorrow so I am LA until the afternoon/evening EST tomorrow.

I will say though that I kind of agree with Melody and (begrudgingly) Fark about Alduskkel. Set up spec is basically null to me, this is to remind me to ISO Ald.

Also Melody, what did I miss about Dunn/Don that was a joke?

I officially invite you to vote alduskel with us

-Farkran

[Farkset]

i'm not vibing the aldu votes really, i don't get why they're a thing

VOTE: almidia

Why do you disagree?

i just like don't get it, idk
he feels similar to neon mafia
i don't know why he's being scumread; or more accurately, i'm not sure he's getting scumread for anything more than playstyle/personality traits

Please talk to me more about aldusk, why do you think that the suspicion around him is personality based?

Or to be more specific, what's there to read him as anything above null now? Did you iso him in this game or do you have just a metabased weak read?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

I think Skitt/Melody are partners
I have more reason to vote Melody because of their weird posts regarding my entrance and skitt is just gut as of right now and their posts have just been pinging me as anti-town in a reverse psycho kinda way I can't put my finger on it so I'll land my vote there.
VOTE: Melody

Which weird posts?

Do you agree with the general sentiment that melody has a pockety tone, or are your reasons something completely different?

Personally, i'm wary of the pockety tone, but otherwise nothing that Melody has done sounds scummy to me, so i'm fine with assessing that post-flip. If you disagree, i'd like to know why.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

i'm not vibing the aldu votes really, i don't get why they're a thing

VOTE: almidia

he's just voting me cos I caught him

I see Skitter as scum tbf, I'll post my replies to posts soon.

thanks bro

a) i'm a she
b) no, that's not why i'm voting you, it's cuz your reasoning is bad, and when it was pointed out that it was bad, you just shrugged it off and didn't reasses anything

What reasoning is bad, and why is that scummy? I don't know what you're referring to - the only valid options would be 192+213 and i'd like to hear more about why they are scummy when scum!almi could have joined any other general consensus read instead of headbutting into you. This does not townlock almidia but i don't see how it would place him below null either

Your only mention of almidia is post 257 and it sounds like you voted there to scratch an itch rather than scumreading almidia for something he has done - if i misinterpreted, please clarify your position.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

I also don't understand why people are saying Farkset is just busyworking..

VOTE: skitter

vote failed in prev post

I don't get the logic and I think this is a scummy entrance

Why? See my previous post for reference

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Please talk to me more about aldusk, why do you think that the suspicion around him is personality based?

Or to be more specific, what's there to read him as anything above null now? Did you iso him in this game or do you have just a metabased weak read?

because he doesn't really seem to me to have done anything scummy for him so i assumed he's largely getting wagoned for playstyle reasons

it's a vague metaread and i just took a look at his iso and he has a nice easy tone that i like
were you the person who said they iso'd him and didn't like what they saw there? if yes, can you expand on that?

What kind of playstyle reasons? I don't see him picking fights as i usually do, or standing out in a particular way that would attract scumreads and wagoning. I don't know alduskkel, but i was not pinged the wrong way by him - rather the opposite, he didn't impress me at all, which is why i went back to check "why i don't remember anything from this slot?"

And i see an ISO which is basically IIOA and fighting

against

progress instead of producing it, this is what i mean when i say it's not a good iso. For instance, look at posts 115, 130, 223 - it seems to me that all of those are from a mindset that doesn't know what to say, so it tries to say something without standing out or taking any hard stance about anyone. He hasn't come back to post conclusions after questioning melody, so things may change in the near future, but as i said i don't see reason to read this slot as anything above null, which is why i was surprised by your read here

-Farkran

[Farkset]

What reasoning is bad, and why is that scummy? I don't know what you're referring to - the only valid options would be 192+213 and i'd like to hear more about why they are scummy when scum!almi could have joined any other general consensus read instead of headbutting into you. This does not townlock almidia but i don't see how it would place him below null either

he's calling me scummy for saying that there's scum in the multiples and since i know i'm town in the 2's, for not voting any of the other 2's

except that's *not* what i said
i did say is taht there's at most scum 1 scum in each set of multiples, and per this logic there's little reason for me to voting in the multiples particularly right now

when this was pointed out to him, he continued voting me anyways

Ok, i get where you may think that almidia is wrong and/or bad, but... the main question is still "why does scum!almidia headbutt into you?", especially at that point in time? I don't think of skitter as an easy-to-lynch player, probably even harder to mislynch as town - if your experience is different please let me know - so why would you want to

lead

a wagon there, as scum?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

meh

VOTE: catscratchfever

eh, sure.

VOTE: catscratchfever

Cat Fever what do you think of these two votes?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Melody you voted drew and aldu before, i think that with intend to pressure. What kind of conclusions did you gather from your previous pushes?
~ker

[Farkset]

Half of the playerlist disappeared over the weekend.

As for the last couple pages, i think:

- Skitter is more town than before
- Datisi is more town than before
- Almidia is a lot more town than before
- I like melody less than before
- I'm... inclined to think that aldu/melody are not a team

I don't know what to make of Aldus because of that. Also i don't see the case against Cat Fever, i only see votes. Can someone enlighten me?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Melody you voted drew and aldu before, i think that with intend to pressure. What kind of conclusions did you gather from your previous pushes?
~ker

Also don't ignore my other head please

-Farkran

[Farkset]

I still think the 1-shot vig should claim; I think worrying about scum hitting a town pgo is a weak point (I don't think town is mor elikely to pick pgo than vig, anyway)

but as you see vig/pgo doesn't share your opinion, we can step forward from it
~ker

[Farkset]

why are you guys townleaning me again?

Do you always ask that? Last time we played you were also picky about it.
~ker

[Farkset]

I don't see why would people like melody. So far they showed 0 independent though.
~ker

[Farkset]

thought

[Farkset]

Also i don't see the case against Cat Fever

Half of the playerlist disappeared over the weekend.

you answered your own question

How is that an answer? How does it apply to Cat Fever?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Daitsi you need to stop being kind and turn to Daiscary, who will force activity from lazy people by fear.
~ker

[Farkset]

Doctorpepper, how do you scumhunt?

Because it seems to me that our reads shift in an almost diametrically opposite way and i'd like to know what are basing yourself on. Like, post #419 makes absolutely zero sense for me: half of the people are inactive, and you would punish those who are actually playing and trying to get the gamestate forward?

Please explain to me what you have been looking for in terms of scumtell in the active people, because i really do not understand your thought process here, but you never gave me scum vibes which means at least one of us is missing a piece

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Okay farkran, I'll try to give you my thought process

I think voting for inactive players is lazy because it's where scum can pretend to look busy but not actually commit to anything. You can't possibly write off everyone active as town and just pretend to contribute by hitting slots that probably are inactive for non alignment reasons. Maybe they're busy. Maybe they can't catch up to 15 pages. But it's like, you could spend your energy engaging players who are playing rather than complain about those who aren't because it seems like you're looking busy but you're not interested in hunting scum.

Ok, but do you scumhunt assuming that the only scum trick is trying to look busy? Do you think that scum cannot lurk? This is the second time you've been beating the same horse (178 was the first), and i dislike this double down a lot.

Could you link some of your towngames?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Also Cat Fever has the same reads and reasoning as DrPepper (97, 107) yet you're calling him empty, and his votes weird?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

I think voting for inactive players is lazy because it's where scum can pretend to look busy but not actually commit to anything. You can't possibly write off everyone active as town and just pretend to contribute by hitting slots that probably are inactive for non alignment reasons. Maybe they're busy. Maybe they can't catch up to 15 pages. But it's like, you could spend your energy engaging players who are playing rather than complain about those who aren't because it seems like you're looking busy but you're not interested in hunting scum.

So you write off everyone, who is inactive as town instead and pretend to solve people, which already overflow with analyzable data.
~ker

[Farkset]

I find CSF votes weird af

Oh, you meant votes

against

CSF, not votes

from

CSF.

I still don't get the empty part though, if you read the posts i mentioned, Cat Fever seems to scumhunt exactly as you. Even though he has less content, i don't think you would call his slot empty?

I dunno. What's your read on alduskkel?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

VOTE: farkset

Nah skitter, you're wrong

-Farkran

[Farkset]

y tho

Tell me why you scumread me, because i never understood your reasons yet i don't think you sound like scum here

-Farkran

[Farkset]

you feel ingenuine

How?

[Farkset]

I tend to think Day 1 is about not drawing attention to yourself as scum so you try to blend in and go with the flow of popular opinion, lurk your way through, or produce content fluffy enough not to get lynched but also useless enough not to give any info.

Do you realize the inconsistency?

All of your reads and votes do not follow this theory. I suggest you re-ISO your strongest reads in either direction

-Farkran

[Farkset]

you feel ingenuine

i don't know
the tacks that you're taking just feel very weird and coming at things from strange angles
and like you're trying to catch people in gotcha!'s that don't actually matter
and i can't track what you're thinking and why here

like dats at least most of their posting is stemming from 'i'm bored and i'm just hanging out in thread waiting for things to happen and i'll just push random things to see if it makes something happened'

i can't figure out how you're approaching this game

I suggest you metadive some of my games. All my completed games are listed in my wiki page. This is how i play, and you will notice i am a vote magnet especially during d1's. The same holds true in the one game we played together, but you were scum so it might have not stuck in your memory.

My approach to towngames, unless they are landslidically easy, is to spark interactions between people - sometimes with reaction tests, sometimes with gotcha moments. It usually brings good results. Advancing the gamestate is my main concern, i usually fight people who don't do that.

We had similar reads earlier about dunn and doncorleone, i can't get myself to realize why you would townread alduskel or scumread us or CSF. If you want further engagement, i can deliver any time.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

I tend to think Day 1 is about not drawing attention to yourself as scum so you try to blend in and go with the flow of popular opinion, lurk your way through, or produce content fluffy enough not to get lynched but also useless enough not to give any info.

Do you realize the inconsistency?

All of your reads and votes do not follow this theory. I suggest you re-ISO your strongest reads in either direction

-Farkran

^ no?

I get the feeling that you're discrediting me without outright calling me scum.

Like you're openly saying "you don't make sense" but you're saying I'm not scum. So am I like the game's VI?

Do you realize the inconsistency?

All of your reads and votes do not follow this theory. I suggest you re-ISO your strongest reads in either direction

-Farkran

I mean if anything I initially scum read you because the early reads list was kind of pointless FMPOV especially because we were like 4 pages in. You're active now but I don't think your recent posting has made me comfortable of your slot, especially since you've done nothing but misrep me in our entire engagement.

If anything the only aberration in my reads is Alimdia but that's because I thought the push was bad and wasn't town driven

VI would be offensive in my vocabulary, but i do think you're wrong in the way you're approaching the game, yes. I don't get scum vibes from you. Your approach is not scummy, it's... inefficient. I mean, i don't disagree that there probably is at least one vocal scum in the group, but i find it counterproductive to look specifically for that one instead of looking in the pool with better odds - especially if you punish people that are trying to get people

out

from that pool and see their reaction.

As for the inconsistency, read again: "I tend to think Day 1 is about

not drawing attention to yourself as scum so you try to blend in and go with the flow of popular opinion, lurk your way through, or produce content fluffy enough not to get lynched but also useless enough not to give any info.

"

This is the opposite of what you've been looking for in this game with your votes. I suggest you re-ISO your reads.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

To be honest, that line is the very description of Melody, yet you're townvibing them and i don't understand why. I am not trying to discredit you - i'm trying to cooperate with people i think are town, but i get voted back instead.

I want CSF to reply to the votes cast against him, and i want to understand the reason behind those votes (this is generally speaking, not specifically talking to drpepper)

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Farkset, our interactions have solidified my read on you because you're practically misrepping me.

I initially scum read you for what I felt was fake content. Now I think you're discrediting my actual scum read on you by latching on to my point about inactivity. It's like you're telling everyone subtly "don't listen to this guy he doesn't make any sense"

Plus I'm not trying to punish active people I just think it's pointless to push for them when active people will more likely be good source for scum

Eh, ok then, talk to you again when you get out of your tunnel

I tried to open your eyes, my advice is still valid

-Farkran

[Farkset]

I kinda explained that the hydra dissonance was something I thought was Townie noh?

Like why announce that instead of keeping it in their own PT

Ok, but have you at least tried to understand my point? Because we cannot work together if you don't try. I am nit talking condescendingly to you. I think you are wrong, i explain to you my point of view, and your answer is "yeah the fact that you tell me that i am wrong makes me even more sure that i am right".

Until there is common ground to work with i'd rather take a break, engage with something else and gain more info

-Farkran

[Farkset]

We had similar reads earlier about dunn and doncorleone, i can't get myself to realize why you would townread alduskel or scumread us or CSF. If you want further engagement, i can deliver any time.

what don't you like about aldu?

also what do you think of brass?

I explained my read on aldu in post 362. His subsequent posts have improved, but i'm not ready to move on from there when most slots haven't expressed a strong opinion of him. So far, you are the only one who offered a towncase.

Brass is nulltown, i think he has correctly picked up on things early - would like more content from him though.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

@farkset

I am inclined to agree with Skitter here and I feel like your push was trying to get me on a gotcha and now you're backing down from it

FMPOV we disagree with scum hunting but you've done a good job of discrediting me by saying im not adhering to my logic. Was that the point you're trying to make here?

Could you point to me where i tried to trap you in a gotcha moment? I don't think skitter was referring to that when she talked to me about gotcha tactics.

In any case, no i didn't try to trap you, i was trying to open your eyes about a scumhunting strategy that i think is wrong. Our reads conflict hard and that's the very first thing that i told you. What else did you expect?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Wait, I got the impression you were scum reading CSF?

Not particularly, no. Where did you get the impression?

-F

[Farkset]

I explained my read on aldu in post 362. His subsequent posts have improved, but i'm not ready to move on from there when most slots haven't expressed a strong opinion of him. So far, you are the only one who offered a towncase.

Brass is nulltown, i think he has correctly picked up on things early - would like more content from him though.

i'm pretty sure i refuted your aldu case
can you point to where you think brass has correctly picked up on things early?

Yeah, you refuted my case. I disagree with you though, as well as some of your other recent reads except probably Melody.

I still want more opinions on aldus.

Brass reference coming next post

-F

[Farkset]

Other than read lists which I despise, by the way, I like Farkset's thinking.

VOTE: Dr Drew

They make a good case here.

This is a post i liked a lot from brassherald back in the early pages. I got the impression that he understood what i was trying to so. I still think this is the case.

-F

[Farkset]

@fark. I feel like your gotcha was you trying to say "I'm inconsistent with how I hunt scum" while also discrediting my scumhunting method altogether.

And TBH, even if we don't agree on the way we hunt scum, it's one thing to disagree and it's another to claim I'm flat out wrong

I don't know what to tell you

When people disagree, usually one side believes to be right and therefore the other must be wrong, so once again i don't know what else you'd expect to hear from me

If you are asking about my level of confidence in my reads, it's not high atm, but i still think you are looking in the wrong places. I don't know how to explain it better than this.

Now, if we want to move on, i will also re-ISO people, wait for more content to produce and reassess later to see if there is common ground to work with.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

farkset how would you feel about potentially voting melody?

It's a compromise i am willing to make

-Farkran

[Farkset]

VOTE: melody

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Oh wait, also Farkran, could you explain why you think worse of us now compared to before?

~Dawn

My read on you has been rollercoastering, really. I don't know what to make of your pockety/sheepy tone, it's not bad in a vacuum but i didn't see independent thought from you. In particular, i didn't like the timing of your votes on drew in 129, despite agreeing with me, and Cat in 368 - that was Evening's action though, and while you have been towncased for hydra dissonance reasons i don't think it's particularly AI.

I would rather see a readlist from you, to recap your global standings.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

To clarify: you're not the scumread i'd want to vote today, but i don't townread you either and you're one of the subjects - along with myself - about which people have expressed the most content, so i'm fine with a compromise on you. If you disagree, please let me know why should i vote elsewhere instead, and if possible let me see that readlist

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Town Lean //
Dunnstral - Taking joke cop claim seriously, asking 1-shot vig to claim feels genuine.
DonCorleone
Doctor Drew - After checking some meta, this looks a lot more like his town game.


Town Incline //
Farkset - Pushing stuff forward, we think we might get why he did the mech townlean on high spot pickers.
DoctorPepper - Meta.
Alimdia - His logic for picking 2 because he thought scum would cockblock people picking 1 felt genuine.


Null //
Clemency
Brassherald
Skitter30
Datisi


Null-Scum? //
Cat Scratch Fever
JacksonVirgo - Liked his initial confusion. Dislike him not understanding why his confusion isn’t NAI, felt like he might’ve been playing dumb there. Dislike him continuing to scumread us for it.
Alduskkel - Dislike attack on Dunny (painting something which might be anti-town as scum-motivated). Dislike reasons for push back on us, the timing of the vote argument reads as fabricated.

VOTE: Alduskkel

~Dawn & Evening

This isn't a bad list... can you expand on why skitter and datisi are still null? I can guess it's not the same level of null as clemency because those slots are full of content, so i'd like to hear on why you don't lean one way or the other.

I reread your reasons for Cat Fever scum. I can see them, but i don't think scum would headbutt into that. I have been scumread for early readlists like... forever, and unless Cat Fever is very experienced around me (and he isn't, to my knowledge), that scumread was just genuine.

I don't know what to make of melody and alduskkel, i think i want to lynch one of them today and i can compromise on either.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Because you seem to have experience with me - i am not used to see new people agreeing with me this much, i know perfectly that my playstle is irksome and it only gets "better" when you know me, yet you are reacting the wrong way about stuff that you should know happen very frequently from town (i.e. scumreading Cat Fever for the reasons you stated). I'm not that confident on Cat Fever flipping town, i just say i don't see the reasons to scumread him for what he has done so far and right now it seems lhf the same way i was. Also your pushes seems to be too hard for too weak reasons, and are almost always aimed at consensus reads at the time they are formed.

That being said, your readlist is almost a perfect match to my own, which means i am probably wrong on at least something (scumreading you, or agreeing with you). I am currently bashing my head into walls with my reads and with 4 days to deadline i think this is the time to start cooperating and removing layers of ego. I wish i had more confidence on my read of skitter - her approach to my slot and what's happening around me is as wrong as it gets in my opinion, but her tone and actions are still towny and i want to believe skitter's read accuracy is better than mine when we can work together and share our opinions rather than figthing.

My alternatives would be voting alduskkel, clemency or drdrew atm.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

So i finally brought myself to metadive neon mafia wrt alduskkel (reference) and i notice posting similarities but tonewise and contentwise it's not the same to my eyes

Like, neon!Aldus had much more stronger stances than he has here when comparing the same game stages. Does aldus have any scumgame to doublecheck if he has significant changes in his playstyle? I would be interested in taking a look at those before i switch my vote again. I will search for them later but it would be easier if someone could link them

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Now about the last couple pages

I think scum!skitter is a lot less shifty with her votes and that's one reason why i townlean her, but this is a weak argument and i don't know if i should trust that given how much we disagree on recent reads - like, the only compromise available seems to actually be melody and she just moved away from that in order to get back on Cat Fever which i still don't see a case about.

Like, 583 can be read as
a. gutread
b. tunnel gutread
c. generic but plausible comment that i'd like being expanded because i don't see it
d. non-understandable overconfidence about the aldus slot

I want to trust skitter read accuracy over mine but i just cannot bring myself to do that today so i'm just going to ignore that sentiment for the rest of d1. At least one of us will have to reconsider many things later anyways.

---

Almidia i don't think is scum, it's not even TSTBS - i just don' think scum would introduce into the game defending me and attacking skitter the way he did - it's completely backwards reputation-wise and also super inefficient at the time those events happened (there were already wagonomics happening and i was one of them) so if almidia is scum i think he's either the worst scum on earth or godlike wifom scum and i don't believe either would be the case.

+ Post 337 feels like a very genuine reaction
+ Posts like 338, 353, 394 give a clear impression that he's reacting to events as opposed to having a prescripted agenda

---

I also think Cat/Melody are disaligned and i really don't think scum!Cat TMIs Melody town in 574. Other than that, i also agree with the recent Cat posts and reads in a similar way i agreed with Melody's readlist. I don't think it's plausible that i am being overpocketed by everyone so i'm just going to ignore that for now and reassess on later days.

Conclusions:

I want to move my vote on Aldus to consolidate the wagon and it's pointless to wait even if i said i would - i am still looking for those scumgames tho.

VOTE: Alduskkel

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Aldu

Interested in this

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Aldu

Interested in this

-Farkran

Lol why did only the word i was looking for in CTRL+F get quoted instead of the entire post 593? I am 100% sure i hit the quote button and didn't edit anything

[Farkset]

WRT ALDUSKKEL

This Game	Neon Mafia	Isaac Mafia
144	334	436
370	357	685
385	561	724

The scumgame is 6 years old, but that was the only one i could find from alduskkel, the guy seems to roll only town. This lowers the reliability of the scum metadive significantly, but i don't see any reason to townlock him based on neon mafia either. He was much more proactive than here and i would say the disengagement is a scumtrait for him rather than towny - he seems much more engaged and aggressive with his reads in neon mafia than he is here or in isaac mafia. This is not alignment-lock worthy, so i don't understand why we're clashing for it this much, skitter. I would have easily accepted a null, even nulltown read, but your level of confidence is orders of magnitude higher than it should be in my opinion. I got the same impression as Cat did in 580.

I think this could tell us more about skitter (and maybe Cat Fever) than it does about aldus, but i don't vibe skitter scum yet and i don't think a skitter wagon is happening today. I wouldn't let her reach lylo unless i am proven wrong though.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

literally nobody is townreading him here except for like me

Also this should raise a bit of suspicion from your side rather than corroborating your theory - like, why does aldus only have 3 votes when nobody is townreading him

-Farkran

[Farkset]

I'll leave Don be for today. Be careful with night actions targeting him, he could be scum pgo, as I've explained.

VOTE: brassherald

I'm not sure how I feel about aldus.

Poe read, kind of

This is quite a bad post for many reasons, Dunn.

Please take a stance on aldus.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

why does aldus only have 3 votes when nobody is townreading him

because half the game isn't even playing

i doubt you can get to these kinda conclusions reliably in a gamestate like this?

Point being: how does skitter get to those conclusions?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

if aldus were scum, his scumpartners would agree with skitter that he's town? that's what she said, no?

Do you think they would whiteknight their partner, or more like nullread/ignore him and hope that TvT fights solve their problem? I mean... i don't understand the hardtownread. I don't even know if scum!skitter would do that to a scumbuddy. I have seen scum!skitter has a minor tendency to TMI people town though, she has done that on me in our game together. But that was a newbie game, and also skitter was very different than this there, which is why i'm not fond of scumreading her right now. I do know that she's wrong on several accounts though, and that's... concerning - i think she might be wrong because she's missing pieces of information that the top pickers might have.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

also it's more like ... idk if i hardtownread him so much as the reasons for voting him are universally awful

what else am i missing here?

Mostly talking about how and why you were wrong when you scumread me - you failed to pick up my play, which is also why i suggested rereading my ISO

-Farkran

[Farkset]

i don't know? i'm saying that's skitter's reasoning for aldus town. i didn't say anything about agreeing or disagreeing. i don't want to lynch either of them today, that's as deep as i thought about it.

pedit: @fark

Why not?

Also your vote is still on pepper, i don't think that would be a correct choice for today - can i invite you to switch your vote to something more appealing? I'd really like to work with the rest of the town rather than going the ego route - if you don't like the highest wagons please build a valid alternative case

-Farkran

[Farkset]

i'm completely checked out of this game, fark, gimme a break. pepper was annoying me because i feel like his push on "datisi you're not playing the same as in this one game that we played together in which you were town" is genuinely bullshit but i get that that maybe comes from town. maybe. my vote feels fine there atm.

what even are the highest wagons right now?

Me, melody and aldus

-Farkran

[Farkset]

i'm completely checked out of this game, fark, gimme a break. pepper was annoying me because i feel like his push on "datisi you're not playing the same as in this one game that we played together in which you were town" is genuinely bullshit but i get that that maybe comes from town. maybe. my vote feels fine there atm.

what even are the highest wagons right now?

Me, melody and aldus

-Farkran

Nvm, i'm not longer a high wagon, last VC is wrong and Cat switched away

[Farkset]

...i guess that leaves only Aldus since i think i am at 1 vote and melody has 2.

Aldus has a whoppingly high count of 3: Melody, Cat, Farkset

-Farkran

[Farkset]

like there's nothing about those three votes that gives me warm and fuzzy feelings

So skitter, let's continue down this road for a while and see where we get

Do you think those 3 votes are exactly the scumteam?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

No, but i dont feel great about any of you
(And that was never my argument either)

Ok then, what's scum doing in this game if those 3 aren't the scumteam?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

i think that at least one scum is supporting this

and that question is hard to answer given that approximately half the game is doing nothing

Then we agree that scum could be in the lurkers, which leads us to the next point

What do you think of clemency/iconeum slot? Almost nobody has spoken about it, which is weird since the lurkiest of slots is often attacked when town doesn't know what to do.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Ok, i'm done questioning

My lynchpool for today is still aldus, drdrew and clemency slot

I don't feel like lynching melody anymore

Also there's a sudden power outage due to bad weather here so i'll see you later

-F

[Farkset]

drdrew

when you get back talk me through this one, or point me at where you went into it before, because it's news. I think you're wrong on melody btw, happy to talk about it if you like. I still haven't caught up lol but I highly doubt melody managed to do anything scummy enough to shake my impression from when I was playing harder end of last week

I didn't fancy how Drew jumped on my wagon earlier today, then i backed off of that because my read was weak and i wasn't sure what to do with the other people who joined the wagon against him. Shortly after, a lot of things happened around melody (another participant to that wagon) and aldus (who then became my main focus, although in retrospect guess that was mostly fueled by skitter defending him) so i kinda didn't talk about drew anymore - but then again that issue was never resolved and i also don't like that he disappeared after the thread stopped talking about him, so he's still in my lynchpool.

All in all i'm not happy with this gamestate and i feel like we should consolidate on something, so i'd like if everyone posted their lynchpools for today and we start to remove ego layers from our reads and try to compromise on something relevant

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Nvm, i'm not longer a high wagon, last VC is wrong and Cat switched away

Just say I'm bad at my job.

Another VC would be awesome as an apology <3

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Skitter, if i would give you compulsive day 1 vigilate shot, who would you kill?
~ker

[Farkset]

Because in-context it was less "moving their vote to pressure another scumread" and more "moving their vote onto a new tasty wagon opportunity":

VOTE: catscratchfever

VOTE: catscratchfever

VOTE: Cat

I'm honestly shocked you don't have issues with this considering you were the one being wagoned.

To be honest this was one of the main reasons i changed my mind about melody at the time (for the worse)

Then i changed my mind again because of their readlist in 531 and Cat's contribution. Their reads are very similar to mine, with only a couple names difference. It may be worth it to quote and compare the two for future reference

Spoiler: readlists

Town Lean //
Dunnstral - Taking joke cop claim seriously, asking 1-shot vig to claim feels genuine.
DonCorleone
Doctor Drew - After checking some meta, this looks a lot more like his town game.


Town Incline //
Farkset - Pushing stuff forward, we think we might get why he did the mech townlean on high spot pickers.
DoctorPepper - Meta.
Alimdia - His logic for picking 2 because he thought scum would cockblock people picking 1 felt genuine.


Null //
Clemency
Brassherald
Skitter30
Datisi


Null-Scum? //
Cat Scratch Fever
JacksonVirgo - Liked his initial confusion. Dislike him not understanding why his confusion isn’t NAI, felt like he might’ve been playing dumb there. Dislike him continuing to scumread us for it.
Alduskkel - Dislike attack on Dunny (painting something which might be anti-town as scum-motivated). Dislike reasons for push back on us, the timing of the vote argument reads as fabricated.

VOTE: Alduskkel

~Dawn & Evening

I skimmed a few pages, but I'm basically caught up.

Town:
Datisi, Farkset, DonCorleone(?)

Townlean:
Dunn, DoctorPepper, Melody, JacksonVirgo

Null:
Drew, Clemency, brass, Alim

Scum/Scumlean:
Aldus, skitter

skitter I feel like is defending aldu disproportionately to the strength of her townread on that slot, and I'm not really following her votes. Like why would she try to compromise with Farkset if she's not very sure that slot is town?

I don't think i'm being pocketed and/or fooled around by both of them, and with me it makes 3 of us with very similar reads so i don't think i'm being stupid here, but the possibility of being very wrong is there. I decided to consolidate on you because if you flip red i will be happy with my grasp of the gamestate and keep going down that road; if you flip green those two must be lynched immediately (or at least one of them, then we can look elsewhere if it flips red). Would you disagree with this statement?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

My concern about skitter is that she doesn't look or sound scummy at all in my opinion, but it appears that all of her scumreads (except an early one on almidia) are exactly the people voting aldus, i.e. {Melody, Farkset, Cat}. I'm not particularly sure there is a provable relationship, it might very well be a coincidence especially because she started voting some of these people

before

the aldus wagon happened, but it seems that she used aldus as a mean to double down on them and then never moved on from that. I don't even disagree with skitter that if aldus flips town his wagon looks suspicious, but then again there's post 640 and no attempt to look for any partners in the world outside of aldus wagon, which makes me wonder how much she is actually invested in her reads and solve

As i said i wouldn't lynch skitter over that but i wouldn't let her reach lylo either if we are in trouble later.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

I also disliked the clemency slot and iconeum hasn't done much to improve on that, the game isn't even that long and usually replacements go either A. hey guys i'll catchup and give my contribution; or B. hey guys i won't bother about catchup so i'll form reads while engaging in real time

And i have seen neither.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

VOTE: Dr Drew

I'm fine with this flashwagon and i think drew should claim now

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Doing retro-catchup now (means i am already caught up but i will answer to stuff that happened inbetween my last post of yesterday and now)

if you flip green those two must be lynched immediately (or at least one of them, then we can look elsewhere if it flips red).

Also you agree with me that in the town!aldu unviverse, his wagon is awful

Given that i townread aldu, your issue with my scumreads is ....

Like what are you complaining about wrt my view of the gamestate exactly ?

Yeah, i realize i have been talking to you a lot, but then again i think me and you are the absolute most active players in this stage so it's... kinda natural that we engage more between ourselves than with anyone else. That being said, my issue was mostly about that i know for a fact that your perception of the aldus wagon

might

be wrong, because i am town and i can see the reasons why he has been voted - that doesn't make aldus scum nor the wagon town, but if we agreed that the people voting aldus cannot be the exact scumteam i would have liked to see some search for partners outside of the wagon, that's all. Dr Drew is a valid choice and i support that, pending claim from him

-Farkran

[Farkset]

I also disliked the clemency slot and iconeum hasn't done much to improve on that, the game isn't even that long and usually replacements go either A. hey guys i'll catchup and give my contribution; or B. hey guys i won't bother about catchup so i'll form reads while engaging in real time

And i have seen neither.

-Farkran

how about you make a conclusion about it? If you've never seen either, why are you trying to use it as an AI something?

I did make a conclusion, i said i didn't like your slot

I can relate to the fact that drdrew timings for hopping on wagons is bad though. Do you have any other scumread so far?
-Farkran

[Farkset]

hello

VOTE: dr drew

Dati can i ask you why you are fine voting drew but didn't want to vote aldus back then? Are you happier with the wagon target, or the wagon composition, or do you have any other reason...?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

no attempt to look for any partners in the world outside of aldus wagon,

which makes me wonder how much she is actually invested in her reads and solve

i'm really unhappy with this post and it feels like unreasonable and unfounded shade to me

That was my sentiment when writing that, elaboration is in 755

I don't feel it's unreasonable or unfounded, but we can move on now and reassess after more info

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Tbh i like the wagonomics of aldus vs drew and i don't think brass is worth lynching today

A flip on any of those two will tell us miles of history about this game imo.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

mod i am voting twice, remove Farkset from Alduskel and place him at 4 votes plzzzz

-F

[Farkset]

I am secretly a day prelynch governor

i have actually unlimited votes, i just want you guys to have fun without my intervention

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Because your position in the rankings is valuable and we shouldn't wait until 6 hours to deadline to have a claim if we want to lynch something useful

-Farkran

[Farkset]

no attempt to look for any partners in the world outside of aldus wagon,

which makes me wonder how much she is actually invested in her reads and solve

i'm really unhappy with this post and it feels like unreasonable and unfounded shade to me

This post is awesome, as we concluded this together.
~ker

[Farkset]

Draft Order is as follows:

1. JacksonVirgo 4
2. Brassherald - 5
3. Doctor Drew - 6

rly you pick it as 3rd? Do you have some sort of love for talking in PTs?
~ker

[Farkset]

There's no way scum ever pick Neighboruiser as 3rd pick.

~Dawn

neither does town
~ker

[Farkset]

Draft Order is as follows:

1. JacksonVirgo 4
2. Brassherald - 5
3. Doctor Drew - 6

rly you pick it as 3rd? Do you have some sort of love for talking in PTs?
~ker

does this change your slot's assessments that the top 3 people are town for mechanical reasons ?

once farkran is back we will talk about it
~ker

[Farkset]

Ok, i am here and caught up.

First and foremost,

Farkset didn't pick Neighborizer/Fruit Vendor

.

Secondly, i disagree that Neighborizer/FV is a bad pick for scum. It's one of the most provable roles (both abilities give hard-provable night actions) and one of the best NK-distancing roles, allowing scum to be justified for being alive later on and attracting townreads from neighborized/fruited people, while at the same time offering no utility for town in terms of investigation or protection so that you don't need to produce guilty/inno results day by day. It's a terrible pick as town 3rd in ranking, but i think it's an excellent pick as scum in that position if you don't want to risk removing cop/vig from town (because you have 2 people above).

@Drew, two questions for you:
1. Where did you crumb your role?
2. Who would you neighborize tonight and why?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

I disagree with all your points skitter and it is pointless to talk about them now

If you want to have a conversation about those topics, it's for a different time

Right now i want to know if drew is telling the truth or not because that claim is really, really bad

-F

[Farkset]

Kill target and claim neighborized/FV on the dead

Would you lynch that? Yeah

Is it possible that it flips town? Yeah

Do you plan your game on being the last scum alive years before lylo? No

-F

Pedit: also disagree, i don't know or care that drew likes having a PT so much as to pick a useless role instead of attempting to have an active part of town winning. As scum, a neighborizer/FV is a good pick if you are 3rd in line, so your obligation to your partner is fulfilled.

[Farkset]

What would you have picked if 3rd in line as scum?

-F

[Farkset]

Ehhh

The claim is still bad in my opinion

I don't think skitter and melody would either TMI drew town or hardwk their partner here

I still want to lynch drew but if i had him mod-confirmed town in this instant, i would switch to iconeum



-F

[Farkset]

I mean it's still drew, aldus or ico for me. I have spoken ar length about all of them, and i have gone through my townleans and reasons for them.

If you want to pick outside of this pool i cannot compromise with it.

Wagons can happen without me, i don't know how i can contribute more today

-Farkran

[Farkset]

I really don't follow how neighborizer is a good town role or a bad scum pick as 3rd, but there's too many people disagreeing with me for them to be all scum, so i guess i'm lacking experience with this setup and i will concede the point.

VOTE: aldus

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Pedit: also disagree, i don't know or care that drew likes having a PT so much as to pick a useless role instead of attempting to have an active part of town winning. As scum, a neighborizer/FV is a good pick if you are 3rd in line, so your obligation to your partner is fulfilled.

I want to talk more about this, Fark. Not to defend Drew but to get into your thoughts/reasoning. Why do you "not care" that Drew likes having a PT so much? It explains why he'd pick neighbouriser over going for a stronger option, so why disregard that?

And why is neighbouriser a good 3rd pick over jailkeeper/redirector/roleblocker/vig...etc? Explain why the pocketing value of one is higher than the mechanical benefits that come with the other PRs I just mentioned.

~Dawn

Ok, let's talk a bit about this, because i have been talked down by 3-4 people for it and i haven't understood why - some of you guys have better experience with this setup (i.e. dunn said town has picked neighborizer as 2nd pick in the past, etc), so i dropped the point, but i still don't see why town would pick that and why scum would avoid that. While argumenting my position keep in mind that i have soft mech info against their pick (803) and that i find drew iso scummy by itself regardless of role, which are non-irrelevant reasons for why i think drew claim is not worthy of being saved today. Two (or three) coincidences doesn't make evidence, but it does make a case against him in my opinion.

1)

Why would you pick neighborizer as town, 3rd position?

I wouldn't know. Neighborizer is pretty much unanimously agreed to be a poor role, in all games i have played. It has very little utility as an investigation tool, some say that it's a bit scumsided because scum is better at pocketing their hoodmates than town are good at scumreading hoodmates, but that's not my point here, i just agree with those who say that Neighborizer is bad. In my mind, if i am town, my best bet would be to actively contribute towards the town victory condition via better roles, but even if i didn't want to risk going for the consensus best picks (because i have people above me), i would never pick neighborizer. Literally never. I would much rather try to understand what the players above me have picked and play as VT than safely get a useless role. But that's me - this argument has been countered by other people's experience so i don't have much else to say.

2)

Why would you pick neighborizer as scum, 3rd position?

As i already said, there are TWO things that neighborizer/FV do better than all the other roles, and those are A. provability, B. NK distancing. Neighborizer produces a hard-provable result without having to deliver information. You can always prove that you are a neighborizer, but your action does not compromise your scum wincon in any way, and nobody will kill you for being a neighborizer, because you will never be a threat. It's an excellent scum pick, i don't see any reason why it wouldn't. Skitter "factual" objection can be broke down this way:

Case A) You are the last scum alive in lylo
- You don't care because there is only one night left, so you don't need to neighborize, if you survive the day you win

Case B) You are the last scum alive the day before lylo
- That night there will be 4 people alive including you. If you are a town neighborizer, you have a 33% chance to target the dead guy. Scum would claim neighborized on the dead guy and town will have to pick between a 33% chance failed PR and the other VT claims.

Case C) You are the last scum alive several days before lylo
- 1. Chances are you are screwed anyways because town has at least 2 random mislynches to make and the odds are against you
- 2. You can STILL claim that you neighborized the dead guy at least once
- 3. But, more than everything else, you don't plan your game against this specific scenario, because it's the absolute worst position you could be in and it's inefficient to base your strategy on the worst case

only

.

As of this, i can definitely see a world where scum got 3rd pick and two low picks and they claim neighborizer/VT/VT, OR a world where a scum low pick is the real neighborizer and his drdrew partner picked something better.

---

Now, based on 812 and other personal opinions, what would be a

better

pick for a scum 3rd picker?

- Rolecop certainly has more utility for them, but is it a pick that would make you be townread? UB maybe, but not rolecop
- Cop, vig, jk/track might have already been taken
- Doc/RB would probably be your best alternative, but roleblocker is also a very scummy pick imo
- Com/Watcher is meh, maybe second best alternative but still weak

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Now, talking about the other candidates...

I don't know what else to say about alduskkel. If he is town, the wagon is kinda bad but the worst position is again DrDrew, closely followed by brassherald. I already said why i townlean melody and Cat recently, and won't change my mind before a flip-based reassessment

Iconeum slot is bad, i don't have experience with either of the players that filled it, but gameflaking is meh and when iconeum replaced in it was not improving, until he was prodded for it and (re)started the wagon on drew. Not a good position if drew is town, not a good position if aldus is scum. I am not voting towards ico because i want other flips first.

Brassherald is a weak townlean for me. The only scummy part of his iso is 736 and that's never enough for me to lynch him today over aldus

Jacksonvirgo, maybe. But i see very little reason to lynch the 1st picker today, set aside the fact that it'd be a very lowvalue lynch given how the day progressed.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Going for neighboruiser as 3rd pick as scum because of fear that jk/rb/redirector/1-shot vig/vengeful

might

be taken is also weak reasoning, you get your pick like 80% of the time, especially if you factor in that jk/cop will be more popular for no1/2 slots, so going for the other 3 is safer.

Nice to meet you, i will introduce myself: i'm 4th in line and i failed my pick :>

But other than that, i explained why those roles are dangerous for scum in my post above. If you have even a weak reason to avoid those, you should use that reason ti avoid them and pick something else.

Also, why is rb a scummy pick? Scum doesn't pick rb and claim rb; they claim doc instead.

~Dawn

How would you use your rb power then, when you are immediately outed as a liar when town learns that a roleblock happened?

-Farkran

Fixed Tags

[Farkset]

God i hate bbcode from mobile

As for believing drew claim or not, he does not have to be the neighborizer to avoid counterclaims, as long as one of his partners is the real neighborizer

But that's not the main point - i do not expect town to pick neighborizer as 3rd pick, that was why i countered the claim with the info i have

-F

[Farkset]

Please don't yell skitter, i already said i disagree with you wrt what i should out and what i should not. If you want to have a talk about that, you're welcome, but yelling at me because i don't play the way you want me to is unpleasant.

-F

[Farkset]

That sentiment was based on the fact that i didn't believe town would have picked neighborizer as 3rd, so i expected that he lied to avoid claiming something dangerous.

Multiple people have told me i'm wrong on that expectation, so it's no longer a valid point as of now, but to me it was when i started talking about it

I know that a specific role must be in the top 3, and it's not neighborizer. I want to make use of this info to the best of my possibilities. My only valuable info is my knowledge about the people above me, so i want to benefit from that - scum does not yet know what i know, so the range of their valid lies is narrowed as long as i am alive, whereas their pool of nk targets increases. A massclaim will happen sooner or later.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

The real neighborizer could be a lower scum pick and he won't get counterclaimed

But i guess in hindsight there isn't a valid reason for drew lying, and more reason (at least for me, at the time of that post) to believe that neighborizer is a scummy pick.

I don't know what else to tell you, it made sense in my mind when i was posting. Then 3-4 people told me that neighborizer is a reasonably common town early pick, so i dropped the point. I was questioned further about it, and i answered. We can move on from that is there is consensus about not lynching drew today.

-F

[Farkset]

Questions to everyone:

- What are the odds that melody/cat are scum together?
- What are the odds of 1 scum in those two?

Take a look at 580 and 809 for primary reference. Melody & Cat, do you have any update to that?

I guess that from your POV it should be melody/cat/farkset because my reads are a close match to those ones, but that's the reason why i have a hard time scumreading them right now - like, either i am immensely wrong and they are both scum (i find it unlikely), or two of us are immensely wrong and the third one is scum (also unlikely).

-Farkran

[Farkset]

We can explore the world of scum melody while we have time

Do you think there is a reason why scum!melody would lead a wagon against you specifically?

You (aldus) are... pretty much their only scumread right now if i am not missing anything. I guess i could see a melody+brass/jackson+iconeum team maybe? Would that fit the current gamestate?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

I can relate to your first sentence, because i have yet to see a game where i am not the d1 top wagon lol, it happens as both alignments though and it's for very different reasons than you, so i don't particularly get why you are lynchbaity by nature. I have no clue about who melody heads are, too.

About Jackson/iconeum, and especially for the latter, i can see a melody/ico team with the premise that i am wrong on all my other reads. They are townlean/nulltowning each other for little reason imo, and i feel like melody should at least scumlean ico based on what i expect from their player profile. But then again, reads based on expectations have failed more than once in my experience, so i don't particularly want to push there today.

Jackson is in a different world to me rn, i would pretty much never lynch the first picker day 1.

-Farkran

pedit: i was answering to aldus but i got caught in a phone call midway writing this post so it took way longer than intended lol

[Farkset]

Last-minute readlist to see where we are at. Some people moved up and down, but ultimately i am not going far from what i have been reading not so long ago

TOWNREADS (never lynch)
DonCorleone

TOWNLEANS (never lynch today)
Dunnstral
Brassherald

NULL TIERS
{Jackson} - wouldn't lynch
{almidia, Datisi, DoctorPepper} - these 3 slots do not ring scum but my confidence is low

CONCERNING SLOTS (would not lynch today, but i am wary that 1 scum might hide here, these slots shouldn't have a path to lylo)
skitter
Cat Fever
Melody

SCUM
Aldus
Iconeum
DrDrew

-Farkran

[Farkset]

The drew wagon is dead, new highest wagons are aldus and melody

I can relate to the reasons why those two are counterwagons right now and i think we're in good wagonomics. I don't feel the need to flashwagon somewhere else. Can everyone take a stance on these two and finalize the day?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

I don't think i have been ignoring your posts, perhaps i didn't answer directly by quote, but i have talked about you a lot and i believe i have addressed all points that have been brought up.

The gameflaking is clemency's, not you, and it's meh because in my experience hardlurking slots are more often scum than not. Aside from that, i already said that i didn't like your introduction and it only changed when you were prodded for more content.

I liked your stance on drew, but if i am wrong on drew i think you are scum. If you have any other direct question, please ask.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Iconeum slot is bad, i don't have experience with either of the players that filled it, but gameflaking is meh and when iconeum replaced in it was not improving, until he was prodded for it and (re)started the wagon on drew. Not a good position if drew is town, not a good position if aldus is scum. I am not voting towards ico because i want other flips first.

I mean, this post that you quoted yourself is very straightforward, why do you demand that i townread you when i already provided reasons why i shouldn't?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

I mean in-game player prod, not mod prod. Post 720. Before then, very few people talked about your slot at all, which to me is a very weird thing to happen around a hardlurker slot.

-F

pedit:

1. No, you are not hardlurking. As i said i am referring to your pred Clemency.
2-3. I did. Post 720.

[Farkset]

What would be your impartial opinion of your slot, if you were an external spectator to this game, and why?

And, after you've expressed your opinion, what would you think about your slot if drdrew was conftown and aldus confscum?

I mean, i don't know how i could be more straightforward than this: i don't like your slot, i would use you as a compromise for today, but ideally i'd like to reassess after a different flip.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

As a counterargument to your experience with lurker slots, i invite you to read (skim is sufficient) these games of mine:

Newbie 1958: My scumpartner Pine lurked until replacement, got picked up by The Worst who was then lynched d2 to a counterclaim

Undertale S Open 2.0: I replaced into a lurker slot, fought desperately for my survival, ended up winning thanks to people reconsidering what i have done with the slot (and my amazing partner Chara)

Mini Normal 2124: Scumslot Luca Blight got replaced twice, was lynched in lylo for a town victory

I also have examples of hardlurking town, but they are significantly less so than hardlurking scum. The point, however, is not that being a hardlurker makes you scumlocked - i am more concerned about the fact that nobody talked about your slot until it was replaced.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Uhm, dati, i forgot about its existence. I didn't read your iso much recently.

Still, i see that it only lasted like 4 posts and the discussion was dropped shortly after because the slot was being replaced.

-F

[Farkset]

Unofficial VC

Alduskkel (5)

- Melody, Cat Scratch Fever, Doctor Drew, Brassherald, Farkset

Melody (4)

- JacksonVirgo, Alduskkel, Datisi, skitter

Brassherald (2)

- Dunnstral, Almidia

Farkset (2)

- Iconeum, DoctorPepper

Alimdia (1)

- DonCorleone

Not Voting (0):
With 14 Alive, 8 Votes To Lynch.

Deadline is in: (expired on 2020-05-23 08:00:00)

[Farkset]

Brassherald has requested Replacement

3rd time a row in history of x/y...
~ker

[Farkset]

I disagree with your take that low-content slots (or in this case NO content) on D1 are more scum then town. I have a completely different experience there. It often flips town. And the flips don't advance the game one bit. OTOH it's necesarry to take those slots out if they aren't contributing later in the game.

Lurking is a questionable scumtell but Flailing is definitely such.
~ker

[Farkset]

Farkset brings up a valid point that doctor scum could have claimed neighbouriser, that one of his lower scum buddies have picked.

Well yea farkran said that but this point is actually really stupid. You can't fail to neighborize anyone in entire game. You could fake it once but not every night.
~ker

[Farkset]

Two scummy counterwagons take more than the deadline timer and never reach more than 5 votes

A flashwagon starts and reaches L-3 over a single RL night

That's not where i am gonna vote, sorry. I agree with the general reasoning that most vocal players are usually town, but i think aldus also fits with the lurk-ish description and if scum is refusing to take a stance it's because there is at least one correct wagon in the two current highest, not because they are happy with the gamestate. This is not a peen contest, it's mafia logic.

Even not considering that, i don't feel alimdia scummy in a vacuum and i have seen town!him play similar to this in the undertale game.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Sup

Sup

-Farkran

[Farkset]

It is cool how productive you become out of sudden.
~ker

[Farkset]

Alimdia are you scared of being lynched?
~ker

[Farkset]

I actually like the case against dunnstral

Alim who are dunn's partners?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Almidia, please consider switching your vote for today. It's less than 30h to deadline, your wagon is not going anywhere imo. My question about who were dunn partners was partly aimed at letting you realize that, and partly to prompt you to deliver more reads. I don't think you are scum. But we need to consolidate on a wagon that can reach somewhere

-Farkran

[Farkset]

To be honest the recent alduskel is not bad, but like... it's late for me to reconsider his position, there's still the thing that i have seen huge resistance against his wagon and i feel like the almidia wagon is quite terrible atm and being used as a counterwagon to save him.

In the almidia wagon, i think the following is probably true:
- DonCorleone is town, has only a partial grasp of the game, but his consensus town aura is being used as an excuse to sheep him
- Dunnstral i thought was town but i feel like i'm wrong now and i can see aldu/dunn team
- JV maybe, but as i already said several time i am completely ignoring the first picker, he's never a good lynch today, tomorrow he will have to speak up on at least something unless he's dead, and in both cases he will solve himself sooner or later
- iconeum stance on me and almidia is awful and i can also see aldu/ico as a team, although i can also see melody/ico
- drpepper i thought was better early on, he's still probably town but man all of his takes are so wrong

-Farkran

[Farkset]

@Farkset You seem set on the Aldu wagon. Is Melody not an option for you?

I got my eye on melody. I would rather look elsewhere today, but i wouldn't let them reach lylo under these circumstances.

Like, with my reads i'm trying to paint the gamestate in a way that could work, and i have:
- melody/aldus as disaligned
- melody/cat as disaligned
- melody/skitter as disaligned
- melody/drew as disaligned

Whereas i can see all plausible melody's partners (dunn and ico mostly) also avoiding the aldus wagon, which gives me very little reason to switch my vote atm. If i am wrong on aldus, i will reconsider many things.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Brassherald could also be an option but he's 2nd picker and i townlean them so it's not today for me

-F

[Farkset]

And 8 people not voting towards you though, not all of whom have expressed their reasons

Which is also partially true for melody but they have got more votes and more stances about them over the course of the day than you did. Skitter and i were voting them and reconsidered, JV parked there for the majority of d1.

Truthfully speaking, there isn't a clear consensus on today's lynch, not even from my personal point of view, but i couldn't find a motive to shift my vote and you know that someone must go by the end of day 1.

If you are town and wish to further your wincon posthumously, please leave the best testament you can. For instance i think the less solvey slots today have been jackson, brass and doctorpepper. Do you have anything to say about them?

Like, when i reread doctorpepper iso i actually see a lot of 1v1 vs me and little else - am i wrong townleaning him?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

@Farkran: if the argument is Alim counter wagon to save aldus, why Alim of all people?

TBH, if it was a counter and Aldus was scum, there were so many viable options for a counter wagon (NM, Ico, Me, JV). It seems kinda random

There has been suspicion about almidia in the earlier part of the day, NM and JV are the top pickers, and nobody has really scumread you so far. I don't think it's random, it had to be on someone viable. Which is also one of the major reasons why i'm also concerned by the iconeum slot, like, from clemency's history (= none) that slot would probably have been the most viable alternative but there hasn't been any interest in lynching there for the entirety of the day.

Then again, 1059+1060+1062 is really, really bad. A generic softclaim from the bottom of the draft, few hours before deadline, followed by a sheep on your previous highest scumread is... eh. I don't even know what to say.

To be honest i'd like a fullclaim from almidia now, but it's 5 hours left and meh. Aldus clearly softclaimed VT and given their play it's much more believable than almidia being any kind of PR. I could see myself including almidia in my lastminute lynchpool if he gets to L-1.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

My original thought process during drafting was that scum would send one of their own to pick '1', to cockblock the few town people that would pick '1'. So that's why I picked 2.
After skitter mentioned that there is at most 1 scum in [1] and [2] (which other people have disagreed on after), I thought that might have happened for the pick '2' as well.

The other wagons don't seem that great compared to this gut instinct I have, but I'll have a look at the others afterwards. tbh I just skimmed last night after I got a prod.

I mean there's the whole case about scum picking 1 or 2, but then he wagons the 2nd picker. From a PR standpoint, does this make sense? Like, it seems to me that almidia only gets a PR if scum is on the bottom side of the ladder here, because they can coordinate and if they were among the top pickers they wouldn't choose duplicates imo, not even as wifom.

Then again, almidia makes a whole case about the number 2 but hard-refuses to vote aldus for the entirety of the day. I... don't really know what to say. I feel like we're all grasping at straws to make our ego feel satisfied today but there's nothing consistent without info, which is what we should aim to get today and reassess later. Lynching in the top 2 pickers is a terrible idea, nolynch is even a worse idea and are terrible takes from a town standpoint.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

I don't want to reconsider anymore. Aldus is an excellent infolynch, i think it has a chance to flip red, if he flips green we >99% lose a VT without mech knowledge about the other slots. I'm fine with that. Will be back 10 minutes from deadline to finalize any L-1 situations but otherwise i'm set.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

If this flips green i am tunneling you and melody tomorrow because i view this to be largely your responsibility and i think melody is scum who has had several counterwagons to the slot today

And if i die i very strongly encourage you lot to do this tomorrow

I am completely fine with this and i agree. I will fight for my life, but if the aldus wagon turns out to be shit i'll want to look in there.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Which is also one of the major reasons why i'm also concerned by the iconeum slot, like, from clemency's history (= none) that slot would probably have been the most viable alternative but there hasn't been any interest in lynching there for the entirety of the day.

Again, you CANNOT push me on inactivity when I'm clearly being active. Clemency not being here when he had the slot is NAI at best.

I'm getting more then annoyed by your insistent pushing of that (very bad) angle

Fark you are basing that push on me on the alternate timeline where I didn't rep in and clemency still didn't provide anything.
We are not on that timeline.

Your push on me is pinging me.

Clearly not true based on my latest posts, i have spoken much more about you recently than just talking about clemency and i think you being pissed at me for what is actually a

good

angle is telling, but that will be an argument for another day

-Farkran

[Farkset]

it's better to no lynch than to lynch a PR right?

then we probably shouldn't risk lynching JV or NM

Pretty clear softie of a VT

Also very good fakehammer from NM, the mod had actually closed the topic for a couple minutes and i fell for it too. I don't think you fell for it though, aldus? Was 1131 sincere?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

it's better to no lynch than to lynch a PR right?

then we probably shouldn't risk lynching JV or NM

Pretty clear softie of a VT

Also very good fakehammer from NM, the mod had actually closed the topic for a couple minutes and i fell for it too. I don't think you fell for it though, aldus? Was 1131 sincere?

-Farkran

It was sincere.

And yeah, you're right, I'm a VT. I tried to pick Neighborizer since I thought I'd have a good shot + I wanted to neighborize Datisi 'cause we talk a lot via site chat anyway, except it's a little awkward trying to avoid talking about this ongoing game so I figured neighborizing him was the solution.

It's also why I was quick to believe Drew was town for his claim.

2 to 3 scum on your wagon looks like a lot though. Did you update your opinion after 887?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Why is drew not a thing? Someone said he was a wagon earlier, why did that die?

Neighborizer claim

-F

[Farkset]

Wait he claimed neighbouriser and then the wagon disappeared? What page did this happen on and more significantly why does town claim neighbouriser if they have third pick?

post 754 onwards

-F

[Farkset]

Can we quickly state the interest value of a melody lynch? 3 hours to deadline

-F

[Farkset]

Why are we assuming that scum PR drew doesn’t claim a partner’s PR for the WIFOM?

Keep reading

-F

[Farkset]

Why are we assuming that scum PR drew doesn’t claim a partner’s PR for the WIFOM?

Keep reading

-F

It’s kind of hard to both get some of that sweet real time interaction and catch up simultaneously

Yeah but all your questions are answered over there

Literally all

-F

[Farkset]

UNOFFICIAL VC

Alduskkel (6)

- Melody, Cat Scratch Fever, Not_Mafia (Brassherad), Farkset, Iconeum, Skitter30

Melody (4)

- Alduskkel, Datisi, Doctor Drew, JacksonVirgo

Alimdia (3)

- DonCorleone, DoctorPepper

Not_mafia (1)

- Almidia

No Lynch (1)

- Dunnstral

Not Voting (0):
With 14 Alive, 8 Votes To Lynch.

Deadline is in: (expired on 2020-05-25 08:00:00)

[Farkset]

Ah crap i messed up, datisi is on aldus

[Farkset]

I change colors and title to avoid mixing up with the mod's

I also messed up almidia count, this is what i get for doing things in a hurry. Sorry.

-F

[Farkset]

Anyways,

@Datisi, skitter, Not_Mafia, DonCorleone

if you guys want we can make a melody lynch happen right now. Otherwise it's just aldus, but eh, i really like how he is responding to EoD arguments

-Farkran

[Farkset]

VOTE: melody

[Farkset]

k, then we don't have enough firepower

VOTE: aldus

-Farkran

[Farkset]

The time to do this was a few days ago imo

again i want to highlight that this is something that could and should have happened like several irl days ago but i don't feel like it's reasonable to make this happen in the like 2 hours to deadline

and i want to highlight that you haven't done that several irl days ago. Up to 22 may you were directionless, then you came back in 24 may saying that you will compromise to avoid nolynch.
~ker

[Farkset]

I'd really rather not lynch Aldus and would swing for farm over melody

But hey, deadline

VOTE: Aldus

This slot is bad

At this precise moment in time i want to ship a melody/iconeum/drpepper solve.

Day 2 will talk about how much i was correct or wrong

-Farkran

[Farkset]

You're hammered aldus

For real

-Farkran

[Farkset]

dp if you were scum in this game how do you think you would be trying to approach me?

farkset how would you feel about potentially voting melody?

and 12 hours later you changed your vote to csf...
~ker

[Farkset]

Tbh i can relate to skitter a lot, as town i usually have many more scumreads than i should and while our takes are not mindmelding i think our approach to this game is very similar and that makes skitter town. In my memory, scum!skitter is much less engaged and less inclined to produce content as she is here. Disagreement about mafia experience is a strong thing here and i am definitely on the losing side of the contest, especially about drew - i can't bring myself to understand why ico is a townread, but other than that i have nothing to add to 1233's readlist

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Ok so here's what i think:

1) I was plenty correct in saying that the wagon on almidia was born to save alduskkel, which implies almidia conftown to me and dunnstral/jacksonvirgo/iconeum/drpepper in awful positions on that wagon.
2) Out of those four names i like drpepper the best based on his d1 performance, the tunnel on me feels genuine. Scum wouldn't vote on one of the reasons why alduskkel went down, denying any possibility to be wrong is a town perk, but man you must start to open your eyes at some point
3) At least one out of JV/NM must have something to say.
4) DonCorleone and CSF are conftown today, based on flips and my personal knowledge. Might be a scum cop but i don't care about that offchance right now
5) Melody was probably killed for being the earlier counterwagon to alduskkel and one of the main pushers, with the red flip they would have never been lynched, which means the scumteam is more than half-competent

Conclusions:

A) Until proven wrong i am down to lynch Dunnstral or Iconeum today. At least one of them is scum, i'm betting a slice of my ass on it (i have a quite abudant ass though so it's not a real problem)
B) Skitter should never reach lylo. I'm serious. Sorry skit, but the way you were insisting about changing wagons + how you refused to go on melody at the very eod + the voice of disappoint after he was hammered look like professional distancing to me. Your confidence and your refusal to switch votes sound like you were trying to feign absolute ignorance about the flip but at the same time you didn't want to look bad by jumping off of it. If you are town, i will owe you an apology. Until lylo i do want to work together with you though, and i will defend any lynch against you with my life, hoping that i was wrong and we win earlier. A fact stands though, that when i get in any-amount lylo i will immediately vote skitter without even rereading.

VOTE: Dunnstral, i think it's better to prioritize this given how much he insisted about the vig pick which was just now confirmed picked by town.

[Farkset]

Skitter should never reach lylo. I'm serious. Sorry skit, but the way you were insisting about changing wagons + how you refused to go on melody at the very eod + the voice of disappoint after he was hammered look like professional distancing to me. Your confidence and your refusal to switch votes sound like you were trying to feign absolute ignorance about the flip but at the same time you didn't want to look bad by jumping off of it. If you are town, i will owe you an apology. Until lylo i do want to work together with you though, and i will defend any lynch against you with my life, hoping that i was wrong and we win earlier. A fact stands though, that when i get in any-amount lylo i will immediately vote skitter without even rereading.

i can work with most of this ... until the very last sentence cuz that would lose the game. like i would literally be fine with this if you gave me time to convince you otherwise in lylo, cuz as it stands scum just let us both be in lylo and we lose

you realize that i was given ample oppurtunity at eod to avoid the aldu lynch and i went with it anyways tho,right? i could have forced a nolynch or a melody lynch

Well, you know as much as i do that you are capable of performing a well-mannered bus. But that's not my problem today. If we are both town and we are left alive we should win this game well before lylo.

pedit: oh hmm... you are right, i just read the vigilante word and didn't think that there could be two. Eh, my main reason for voting dunnstral is not the vig fishing though, it's his position on Almidia and how he went by mid-to-late d1. I can also do iconeum, but dunnstral is fine.

-Farkran (i forgot to sign)

[Farkset]

I'd really rather not lynch Aldus and would swing for farm over melody

But hey, deadline

VOTE: Aldus

This slot is bad

At this precise moment in time i want to ship a melody/iconeum/drpepper solve.

Day 2 will talk about how much i was correct or wrong

-Farkran

So after this you're just gonna say "DP is town based on D1 performance"

FOH with that scum

So you assume that while i know that aldus flips scum (because i am also scum), i call you a bad slot for hammering it, then i enter d2 calling you town... ok. I mean, i could accept a similar reasoning that i made towards skitter a few posts above, but i have been pushing aldus for the most part of d1 and i insisted on pushing even after the almidia wagon formed and reached L-2. Then, 2 hours from deadline i try to switch onto melody because i was almost convinced that aldus was town, skitter denies me the chance so i get immediately back on aldus, AND night 1 i kill melody, who was also townreading me.

Correct me where i am wrong, and after you're done please vote dunnstral with me

[Farkset]

-Fark

Lost habit of signing

[Farkset]

Drew your the only suspected from previous day flipped town. Have you came up with anything new?
~ker

[Farkset]

I counter claim cop

Oh, how nice, i sense another scum going down. Today it's dunn vs don i guess.

To be honest i thought DC claim was a joke, but since he went ahead with it, there's probably a high chance that he is the true cop. It doesn't make a lot of sense for DC to lock himself into a cop claim when he was nowhere near under pressure, on the other hand dunnstral is in a terrible position today and an attempt to wifom the true cop down seems a legit scum move.

I'm fine lynching dunnstral first. If you're town, you should claim your results.

-Farkran

[Farkset]

I mean if scum couldn't pick neither doc nor cop, they need to lynch the cop now otherwise it's pretty much autoloss for them. A counterclaim from scum in bad position seems the logical choice if this is the case.

I wonder why aldus didn't counterclaim yesterday though. Perhaps i burned him with 1145? Or maybe they didn't believe DC either and expected a backpedal/a different CC from the "true" cop?
-Farkran

[Farkset]

they need to lynch the cop now otherwise it's pretty much autoloss for them.

Then we can lynch outside of the claims & outside of the 1's and see what happens.

lol, sure, sounds a nice idea

You should really claim your result, DC already claimed his own and one of you is going down today, the other will either stay alive forever or lynched tomorrow depending on flip

-Farkran

[Farkset]

they need to lynch the cop now otherwise it's pretty much autoloss for them.

Then we can lynch outside of the claims & outside of the 1's and see what happens.

The whole point of this scheme is that doc will protect cop each night, which forces one pure check per day. If there are two potential cops then doc might pick scum and let cop die.
~ker

[Farkset]

Assume for a moment that I'm town cop like I claim; what should I have done?

post your n1 result
~ker

[Farkset]

I counter claim cop

Oh, how nice, i sense another scum going down. Today it's dunn vs don i guess.

To be honest i thought DC claim was a joke, but since he went ahead with it, there's probably a high chance that he is the true cop. It doesn't make a lot of sense for DC to lock himself into a cop claim when he was nowhere near under pressure, on the other hand dunnstral is in a terrible position today and an attempt to wifom the true cop down seems a legit scum move.

I'm fine lynching dunnstral first. If you're town, you should claim your results.

-Farkran

Except why directly claim a role that you're not as scum? That's the easiest way to just die. I think one is fake-claiming Town and the other is the real person who picked the Cop/[whatever the second one was].

i low-key think dunn could be town but not cop

Town fakeclaiming cop is gamethrowing, i'm not going to accept that.

Scum fakeclaiming cop is explained because if they don't lynch the cop they lose

Any vote outside dunn or dc is also gamethrowing in my eyes, if town specifically wants to lose this game i'm not going to have a part in it

-Farkran

[Farkset]

It's a terrible and inefficient strategy.

1) lying as town at this point in time will not prevent the nk, it attracts a lynch and screws all reasoning for the rest of the game
2) if both cops are left alive we invalidate the doctor

I'm never going for that and should never be considered as a viable option

-F

Pedit: no it isn't - DC claimed a result today. It's no longer an acceptable fakeclaim if you are luring out the true cop. Clearing players like that screws with the dayplay in a much worse way than losing the cop via nk. The counterclaims must be solved today.

[Farkset]

Fark if my vote on Alim was that awfull, how come you don't mention me being on the scum lynch? It's not a clear on me by a mile, but not mentioning it is at least bleh.

1258 though

[Farkset]

Dunn should out his result before anyone is lynched today, that's for sure. I agree that he could not have a green check on DC because that would be immensely stupid. A different green check should have been held until/if dunn was forced to claim. A red check should be outed immediately, but the lynch is still dunn to verify if the result is accountable, then -if it was- day 3 we lynch the red check and d4 we lynch DC.

Lynching elsewhere is a very bad strategy. If DC retracts the claim, i'll lynch DC. He shouldn't have forwarded a green result if he was fakeclaiming town.

-F

[Farkset]

Answering 1345 is a guide to what to do for scum so i won't answer that before DC answers, but the lynch is always between DC and Dunn today, there are zero alternatives about it.

[Farkset]

Dunn should out his result before anyone is lynched today, that's for sure. I agree that he could not have a green check on DC because that would be immensely stupid. A different green check should have been held until/if dunn was forced to claim. A red check should be outed immediately, but the lynch is still dunn to verify if the result is accountable, then -if it was- day 3 we lynch the red check and d4 we lynch DC.

Lynching elsewhere is a very bad strategy. If DC retracts the claim, i'll lynch DC. He shouldn't have forwarded a green result if he was fakeclaiming town.

-F

Well no. There's a few scenario, in neither one we are lynching DC.

DC retracts claim, Dunn has red check. We lynch red check.
DC retracts claim, Dunn has green check. We still don't lynch DC because he is probably town for the play in the first place.
DC doesn't retract claim, Dunn outs red check. We lynch red check.
DC doesn't retract claim, Dunn outs green check. We lynch neither claim and see where the NK goes. Probably mass claim next day. Next day, both claim results and we move off of that.

Dunn didn't check DC.
~ker

[Farkset]

UNVOTE:

as it is pointless to vote until dunnstral outs his claim

-F

[Farkset]

Also waiting for DC here

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Ok, now that both the "cops" have spoken up, i'll out my thoughts as well:

1) I reread the joint don/dunn ISO, with special regard to 39, 66, 39, 75, 83. It clearly suggests that Dunnstral is actually the real cop, which DonCorleone should have realized when discussing with him - however, he refused to consider the *obvious* possibility that the real cop would have crumbed at that point, instead went against the gamestate by insisting on lynching dunnstral. Today, he went ahead and claimed a inno on CSF and then retracted his cop claim. This is anti-town play from DonCorleone - especially if he's PGO because he doesn't show any concern for town powers that could have targeted him.
2) Dunnstral shouldn't have outed today with a green check, instead he should have tried to get JV to talk more and only later divert the wagon if it happened to be on JV or Dunn himself. There was no reason to believe Dunn would die N2 given the premises. This is also anti-town play from Dunn.
3) VCA (1238) is terrible for both the players involved, by which i assume at least one of them is scum, but i wouldn't rule out both.
4) Regardless of the truth behind these claims, i think both CSF and JV are plausibly conftown now, because a town cop wouldn't lie and scum probably wouldn't out their partner in a fakeclaim.

Conclusion:

we should never, EVER lynch outside of the two claims today. I'm much more inclined to lynch DonCorleone now, but seriously we should

NOT

let both players alive. It would lead to a terrible gamestate in the following days which i don't want to cope with. Dunnstral (the likely true cop) should be healed and produce results until lylo-1, then lynched to verify the results and proceed accordingly. If he happens to get both reds before lylo, even better.

There are two possible roleblockers and two possible protectives in effect (doctor/roleblocker and jailkeeper), although they cannot all exist at the same time. The jailkeeper slot should claim today, even if he picked tracker. The roleblocker is mutually exclusive to doctor, so if dunnstral dies tonight we will know where to lynch, otherwise we gain cop results. If the jailkeeper slot won't claim, we know it's likely scum.

Explanation:

if a doctor exists, dunnstral cannot die unless improbable shenanigans. If dunnstral claims blocked, we lynch the jailkeeper.

Math:

assuming we don't lynch scum until 5p lylo (or 6p mylo), we can afford 3 mislynches which is more than enough to test this theory. If this isn't autosolve, it's very close.

-Farkran