Open 788 - Crossfire - Game Over

[WeyounsLastClone]

hey all, confirmed

[WeyounsLastClone]

Fun started without me!

vote: innocentvillager

I guess voting for everyone gets things going, but as long as it includes me it can't be a correct list

[WeyounsLastClone]

NoNo, can you post a bit more coherent thoughts behind your votes?

Vote: NoNo

Marksman, Chemical Elements, and Hiraki, read like (pro-)active town at this point.
Not to sure about hellbooks, do we really need 6 posts in a row with varying content? Could be eager crazy town, there were some funny posts and decent points, but also a bit chaotic
Isis I don't know either. Very early in RVS starts to get technical/serious.

[WeyounsLastClone]

@Wey - Why Chemical Elements for proactive town?

Mostly due to the help with vote count, and general participation. I guess post #66 could/should have included reasoning, but it included most names that I found/find suspicious as well, so maybe in my head helped me think of him as town.

[WeyounsLastClone]

@Wey - Half (3) of the names in 66 hadn't posted yet, how can you find them suspicious?

Okay, it seems this has sparked a bit of discussion which I guess is a good thing. Thanks everyone trying to read my mind (I would not try to with the chaos inside though...), but I'll try to detail my thoughts myself as well. The people I found most suspicious at that point were Nono, innocentvillager, Iris, and hellbrooks. From ChemElements in post #66 list I found Nono, innocentvillager, and Iris suspicious amongst the active posters, so those were most names I had on my list. Granted, Nono's suspicion based on his posts/activity came only after post #66, but when determining scum/town reads in my head someone who voted for Nono helped categorize as Town.

The other three votes in #66 were on people who had not posted, which although is not a scumread or particular townie, is a valid reason to vote/pressure (although might have been good to add that as reason to the post). It's been quite a while since I played any mafiagame, but back in the day I think laying low helped me more as scum than as town.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Glad to see almost everyone posted thoughts. I wish I could be as coherent as some of you with your thoughts and analyses, my mind goes all places reading the different interactions and suspicions. But I'll give it a stab anyway:

Thinking town
Marksman - lot of content, and while that's not necessarily townie, I think he posts valid thoughts (although sometimes making mountains out of molehills, but that might be just my opinion ) and keep things going
Casey - Starting the game late, but brings the heat and some decent posts with interesting analysis
Chemical Elements - not to rehash the whole discussion again, but the initial posts and help with vote counts gave me a town-vibe. But slipping more towards neutral, not sure if post 101 was serious or trying to get more votes on innocent

Either way
Hellbooks - initially thought she was trying to create chaos and leaning scum, but I guess that's her way of posting. and it's funny, which always helps
Hiraki - A bit hit and miss, sometimes slightly opportunistic, but happy he understood my post that caused the stir.
Isis - started to post a lot, then a bit less (or it could have been night, not sure where she's from). Felt maybe a bit too serious from the start.
Lavender - Could be a real confused townie, but could be an excuse as well. Not sure as scum why you'd post stuff like that, but as town you could easily read the thread and see them both posting. If it was just uncertainty who to vote for I could understand, but ChemElement/Elements has been addressed even before.
Hayasaka - Maybe I don't trust her as she's voting for me, but not sure I follow her reasoning in initial posts 131 and 132
Elements - Opportunistic vote on Casey, don't get much from the other posts made

Leaning scum
Nono - Still find his posts non-coherent, and then goes V/LA
spicer1209 - with lack of posts, need something more than that initial post. Want to read his thoughts before putting actual vote in though.

I really don't know about innocentvillager anymore. Voting for just everyone still doesn't sit well with me, but actually the way he interacted after that and updated his suspicions seemed quite town.

Unvote: innocentvillager

waiting for content:

Vote: ileileile

Hope I didn't miss anyone

[WeyounsLastClone]

Wey, should I be worried your top guess for scum is someone with 1 post?

Maybe this is a playstyle difference, but I don't see how you scumlean Spicer rather than have him in the "Either way" section.

Nono only went on a 18 hour V/LA btw. Barely counts as one, unsure why they even bothered.

It's that his only post is 'who should I vote for' without any commitment, input, or indication that he's reading up. Feels like a convenient set-up to bus

[WeyounsLastClone]

visible confusion

Bus who?

Thought it was getting quiet in here, but I guess everyone was sleeping or deep in thought

Maybe I'm a bit rusty in my terminology, but it felt like an easy comment to potentially join some of the L-2/L-3 trains.
Do you think his post was a town-entrance? Or a null-entrance? I would think a town-entrance would add at least an apology, or intent to join the conversation and analysis.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Bus means voting/pushing for a scum partner. I think you mean just being opportunistic in general.

Ah, okay, thanks; I misremembered then, thought it was werewolf/mafia jumping in last minute to lynch with fellow scum.

[WeyounsLastClone]

It's a pretty null entrance for me. Asking who to vote is kinda equivalent to asking for a summary.

Why do you think town would be more likely to apologise? If anything, I think scum would be more likely to show placating/specifying behavior.

Sorry, seems I'm more confusing or unclear in some of my posts (at least to you). But fair point. I'm often a fairly apologetic person, so maybe that's me projecting on others.

[WeyounsLastClone]

In any case we really could use some input from spicer and ileileile

[WeyounsLastClone]

@Wey: "Casey - Starting the game late, but brings the heat and some decent posts with interesting analysis"

Could you expound on that? For having me lean town and calling my posts "decent" and "interesting" (empty words) you don't seem to have subscribed to any beliefs held within them. It reads like you're saying that to get me off your tail.

Time to make good on your words: what do you consider to be spot-on accurate in my posts? You're welcome to say nothing and admit you've no idea what you're talking about. I won't fault you for that.

It does seem you have a knack for mispresenting people's words (please don't start to talk about houses...). Decent/interesting is not the same as 'spot-on'.
You interact (and confront), refer to specific posts and actions, and actively indicate your town and scum-reads, and that's what I appreciated (maybe I should have elaborated in my post and not just called it 'decent', but it was getting quite late here in Netherlands and wanted to make sure I got my list out before I went to bed;). That I like your posting style and confrontations, and get a town-vibe from that does not mean I fully agree with your findings or your reads. Interesting was referencing that you seem to be quite direct, and call out things directly (in post #160 and some of your interactions with Hiraki).

One question I still had based on below

@hellbrooks: Nothing innocentvillager did stood out at all in my initial read. Had to go back through the ISO to get a read.

The first thing Innocentvillager did was vote for everyone, did that not stand out to you? Or saw it as a null-tell, or townie move?

[WeyounsLastClone]

unvote Almost50

To give the chance to read up and post some thoughts

[WeyounsLastClone]

Um... I've just checked your topics. Did you really stop playing since 2012? Is this your first game in 8 years?? Geez! I seem to ALWAYS have a playstyle clash with the "old guard", so..

Yeah, not sure if a Nightless maffia was the best to get back into the game . Kinda confused what leads to go on and trying to find inconsistencies, but with no night actions and just wagons evolving and devolving that's more difficult than I expected. I tend to be suspicious of the more random posts like Nono (and initially hellbooks), or lurkers (like ileilei and spicer) as especially in this game with no deadlines scum could just wait, ask for replacement, wait, ask for replacement. If we purely judge by content, and there is none, they shouldn't be fully safe.

Since ileilei is replaced by you, I guess I can at least say that you're not lurking, maybe even post a bit too much Is that your typical playstyle?

[WeyounsLastClone]

as especially in this game with no deadlines scum could just wait, ask for replacement, wait, ask for replacement. If we purely judge by content, and there is none, they shouldn't be fully safe.

This is another weird read. You think scum would just replace out one after another in an attempt to say nothing and win? That's just...

weird

, and I don't know if you really believe that.

For the lack of heat spicer and ileilei were getting, if they were scum, I say it's looking like a decent strategy. Maybe I was exaggerating a little bit, because if spicer's replacement wouldn't post I think he/she would get some attention hopefully.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Um... I've just checked your topics. Did you really stop playing since 2012? Is this your first game in 8 years?? Geez! I seem to ALWAYS have a playstyle clash with the "old guard", so..

Yeah, not sure if a Nightless maffia was the best to get back into the game . Kinda confused what leads to go on and trying to find inconsistencies, but with no night actions and just wagons evolving and devolving that's more difficult than I expected. I tend to be suspicious of the more random posts like Nono (and initially hellbooks), or lurkers (like ileilei and spicer) as especially in this game with no deadlines scum could just wait, ask for replacement, wait, ask for replacement. If we purely judge by content, and there is none, they shouldn't be fully safe.

Since ileilei is replaced by you, I guess I can at least say that you're not lurking, maybe even post a bit too much Is that your typical playstyle?

"old guard" posts can be unusual but this is pretty offkilter. Clone, if you replaced out of this game and the player who replaced in for you won the game, would you have considered this game a "win" for you?

The new school paradigm is very much that you do not. And I feel pretty strongly that it should be that way; assuming without deciding the player replacing out needs to get the fullest forgiveness because their extenuating circumstances are so dire, the player replacing in has to give their all so I think they need to feel the win is 100% theirs

Didn't know old/new guard was a big thing, but can understand much has evolved. But valid point on how it feels as win/loss if you're replaced. Maybe I was too much thinking out of roles instead of players, wouldn't expect spicer would be proud if he was mafia and won the game. Back in the day I didn't post much, either as town or mafia, and always got bothered for lurking/not posting much and somehow got killed as town early on, and survived as mafia

[WeyounsLastClone]

Congrats to town! Maybe nightless mafia wasn't the best idea to return to this forum to get back in the game, but it was a fun mechanic and nice players.