Open 791 | Forest Fire | Game Over
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Morning Tweet SheTeam Mafia WinnerShe
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I see what the role PM mistake was. we had a three man team!In post 21, GuiltyLion wrote:
I actually rolled scum in the original roll of this setup and it was very scary indeed!In post 6, Morning Tweet wrote:I dreamt i was an arsonist..
was really scary. Fortunately for me, it lasted only for a moment!
hi Ydrasse hi Mena hi Pine hi Dunny hi Gamma hi Guilty hi clidd ! !!!!!!!!!!
VOTE: Farren
did you roll scum again?
It's okay, i didnt retain the arson tendencies. I worry Farren may have though-
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(ノω-`)In post 14, Menalque wrote:Looks like morning tweet is back at it again with her scum strategy of pocketing everyone through being cute
VOTE: morning tweet-
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ah, that is my "looking dejectedly off to the left whilst placing a hand over my face" faceIn post 44, Menalque wrote:
Morning, I really don't know what his kawaii face means, I'm sorryIn post 33, Morning Tweet wrote:
(ノω-`)In post 14, Menalque wrote:Looks like morning tweet is back at it again with her scum strategy of pocketing everyone through being cute
VOTE: morning tweet
The meaning is: I have almost died in several games due to players (seriously) accusing me of doing cuteness as a scum strat (and died in 1 or 2), and i just relived them all for a brief moment in that one sad face
i can do it to the right too but i dont have a left arm to use
(´-ω-)-
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we treestump all the strongest players so the arsonists can't incinerate them, they carry from beyond the grave, we win?In post 54, Menalque wrote:I have a very solid plan for winning this game-
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thank u Ydrasse it means a lot (^∀^)In post 57, Ydrasse wrote:morning tweet don't let anyone ever tell you to stop using cute faces.
noooOOOO don't feel bad, it was just for one face! Two since i felt the need to demonstrate i could turn its direction!In post 60, Menalque wrote:oh no, I didn't mean to make morning sad, now I feel terrible
how can I make it up to you? voting someone? a lovely compliment? setting fire to some trees for you? a bit of fruit?
............fruit would be nice thanks-
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I would point out that open-wolfing is a new look i dont think i've seen from Mena before (in my very tiny sample size), but I'm too distracted by my lovely gift. (and im guessing it means nothing)
OH by the way
Was that really what you were thinking or was this a jokeIn post 61, Menalque wrote:
um, this plan was meant to be secret morning, how did you get into my safeIn post 58, Morning Tweet wrote:
we treestump all the strongest players so the arsonists can't incinerate them, they carry from beyond the grave, we win?In post 54, Menalque wrote:I have a very solid plan for winning this game
My first idea was to prioritize exiling players who are the best at town (and yeah, have a decent chance of flipping scum sure) so we win both ways. maybe that isn't exactly rocket science though-
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Would me mentioning that Ydrasse is a great scum player sway your opinion, or are you rock solidIn post 70, Gamma Emerald wrote:I townread Ydrasse and will stake my life to protect him-
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Not townreads -- people who have tend to have good readsIn post 84, Ydrasse wrote:uh... i don't know if i follow along with why it's a good idea to even potentially vote out townreads?
can someone explain this for me pls.
but this playerlist is all around really good so idk if that changes much-
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I did not realize tree-stumps could be burnt down. Although i think that'd likely be a waste of time so if they actually felt the need to waste a kill on dead players that'd probably be positive for usIn post 87, Ydrasse wrote:no i just don't get why people would view it like that?
like, treestumps can be burned down, right? you get the perspective of a confirmed player if they're a treestump but rob them of a vote. and even then they can be removed eventually, anyways.
p-edit: huh. in my mind i was thinking of it more as a failsafe sort of thing rather than trying to... make use of it like that?
OGamma Emerald wrote:Already stated this was a bit puffed up, thanks for your input though-
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Of course! i do not want to policy strong players. The only practical application i can think of is maybe if we're stuck between two scummy players and need tie breaker reasoning. And also i realized that doused players who get stumped stay doused anyway so we aren't exactly protecting them come maybe day 3 day 4In post 99, GuiltyLion wrote:regarding the idea of eliminating strong town players - I agree that there might be a side benefit if we tree stump someone with good reads, but when I rolled scum I was thinking about how a lot of players in this PL are high WIM tryhards and going to be difficult to convincingly scumread/eliminate. so I'd be skeptical of letting people get away with votes just because the consequences aren't too bad if we hit town - that still allows scum to get a step closer to wincon, and could give them more room to justify/excuse their votes. If we're voting to eliminate someone I think voters still need to pressed to explain why that player in particular is likely to be scum, I wouldn't be down for policying somebody solely because we think they'd still be good as a tree stump.-
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That's interesting and not a bad thought, although you could make the opposite argument and say scum would be more inclined to look busy with questioning, "solving", n what notIn post 100, clidd wrote:Farren doesn't look very friendly and the tone presented so far is being more questioning, which I do not assimilate to scum.
I think he would care about image maintenance and post filler-friendly things as scum in this initial stage.
So if I'm getting this right, you asked clidd the question about his opening in 20 with the explicit purpose of getting extra interactions with him?In post 113, Farren wrote:
Purpose of 20 - an excuse for engaging clidd, specifically. I think I'm going to need extra interactions with him to be able to read him properly.In post 104, GuiltyLion wrote:@clidd - I think the couple of issues I have with Farren are that a few of his questions don't seem likely to advance the game in a useful way and are either blendy or stirring things - mainly 20 and 72. I also think the soft defense of Ydrasse may be a WK
Purpose of 72 - I didn't like the confidence level that 70 implied - at least if the post was sincere. But I did like the ... brashness, I guess? I was trying to figure out a way to divorce the two, figure out which is more indicative. Based on Gamma's answer, I'd say the brashness - which is a small plus.
As far as defending Ydrasse goes: describing her as "Friendly" was not a defense. It was more a probe on Menalque to see if he was advocating for "Friendly = Scummy," - which he was not. The only other post - 62 - yes, that's a small plus to Ydrasse, as it's something I'd noticed as well. Why would you think that constitutes white knighting?
And not just that, but describing Ydrasse as friendly was actually to see whether or not Mena was equivocating friendly with scummy.
...i wish i had that much direction in my opening posts-
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lemme see i played a game as scum against clidd town and a town game against clidd scum
I dont have any bad feels from his posts but i didnt in partition, either
He has unique takes on a lot of things (like saying scum!Ydrasse wouldn't vote him or Farren being inquisitive suggests town), and it's tricky for me to tell if he's coming from a good place or not-
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FWIW i kind of doubt "relaxedness" or laying back is a clidd scumtell, i dont recall him playing like that in Zoey's extraordinary mafia.
he had decently big posts and he got quite excited actually. I think in particular his big response while under elim pressure might've saved him (although maybe that's a different topic)-
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Mena, what do you currently give the odds that clidd is scum trying to justify being off-meta with this comment, versus being town (or even scum!) who just wants to play more low keyIn post 35, clidd wrote:I'm cognitively fatigued after my last two games, so I don't intend to do wallposts here.-
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WOAHWOAWOA you're pocketing me already?In post 159, Menalque wrote:I think morning tweet is town.
(¬ω¬)
im gonna accept this townread, but ill have you know im onto u
Well see the reason i asked is, it feels a bit unlikely to the point where the effort being put in seems quite greater than the odds of it actually being true.Menalque wrote:
I really don't know, morning, that's why I'm asking him.In post 160, Morning Tweet wrote:
Mena, what do you currently give the odds that clidd is scum trying to justify being off-meta with this comment, versus being town (or even scum!) who just wants to play more low keyIn post 35, clidd wrote:I'm cognitively fatigued after my last two games, so I don't intend to do wallposts here.
At rand there's a 75% chance it's the truth, but I'd like to be sure against the 25% chance it's not.
I just had a brief moment where i felt you were making this out to be much more important than it is, for whatever reason. But of course, if we don't talk abt stuff like this, we don't have content. So fair enough i suppose.-
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my take: I'm not good at the skilled parts of scum, like directing town into miselims or like PR speculation. i am okay at appearing townie but I myself don't know why so is that really that good?In post 165, Menalque wrote:i would never! I just think you are pretty strongly like town so far. maybe I'm just drastically underestimating your scumgame which someone said was very good and who I generally respect, but you feel super similar to the last couple of games when you were town so I just wanna like townbin you and not worry about it
also, I'd feel so guilty for pocketing your tiny batface and would never be able to keep it up all game. look at those innocent, trusting eyes and those big flicky ears!
**
err, maybe? but like idk if there are playerlists where that just wouldn't be interrogated very much and people would just go like "ahh, cool, fair enough!"... and so if he was scum and thought town were at least reasonably likely to do that it's not a lot of effort for a potentially high reward. but like this is really all just speculation that's maybe not that useful until clidd answers me or decides he's hard committing on not answering me which is like a whole other thing to then try and sort
awh ok. im holding you to this now-- dont break my heart! (>ω<)
I see what you're saying a bit better now. Even though i personally seriously doubt it's alignment indictative, the discussion we're creating is nice. I think in particular i find 167 pretty convincing clidd isn't lying here-
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Clidd I believe has a higher chance of being town from the way he's responding to Mena/GL -- I'm near certain he's genuinely frustrated (177), his reads remind me of previous games with him..In post 203, Farren wrote:
Leaning Town on clidd and you. Gun to my head, I'd say Dunnstral and GuiltyLion for scum - but my D1 read quality tends to be utter garbage. At least in my last game, the scum were all hiding in the middle of my thoughts by the time D1 came to a close. People who were being active, but not *really* active - people who were participating, but not shining. Probably means I should be looking more at ... Gamma Emerald, Ydrasse, Morning Tweet. And I'm forgetting someone ... Pine. I'd put Pine in the bottom bucket. And I know why I'm doing that, and I hate it.In post 189, Menalque wrote:Farren, do you have any reads yet?
So: let Dunnstral and GuiltyLion percolate for the time being, poke them from time to time, work on the middle three. Wait for Pine to become more present.
VOTE: Morning Tweet
Going off of memory, Morning Tweet, you've made less of an impression on me than Gamma and Ydrasse, despite you scumreading me. Is that a me thing or a you thing, do you think?
Pine was not present for the first day of the previous game I played with him, i believe this is normal.
Sometimes i give a ton of reads at the beginning, but this game i haven't really as much because i feel i'll be biased to townreading those who have been active thus far. I'm waiting for a more complete picture. Oh, also it's not a scumread I just retained my vote on you without commenting on it to give the illusion of extra pressure (i have a fear of having early scumreads)
UNVOTE:
I noticed this the other day and i made a hypothesis that Ydrasse feels more pressured to give early reads / content as scum. But there was a town game where she gave a big reads run down within the first 200 posts. so i do not knowIn post 209, GuiltyLion wrote:
Menalque what's your reasoning here? she feels way more casual/chill/friendly than I remember in either her scumgame or her towngame, I don't know how to read itIn post 175, Menalque wrote:I think ydrasse is probably town.-
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Clidd has a tendency to reciprocate townreads, I've noticed. I wonder if it's a towntell of his, id have to check. But he does it very often from what i can recallIn post 221, GuiltyLion wrote:I don't follow, what do you mean by good questions? Like you don't think my questions were good?
I don't agree with you that Menalque is obvtown here and I think the reason you gave for it doesn't feel all that rigorous, which I would expect more from you. As either alignment Menalque can speak genuinely about your meta. It looks to me like you were happy with the conclusion he reached in 175 and townread him back as a result, I can't grok why you'd be confident he's town off that.
I also don't vibe with scumreads on the two lowest activity slots on the basis of PoE here, it's very likely that one of the more active posters is scum trying to establish a good foothold in the game
Why is it likely for scum to be in the actives as opposed to not?
Very active posters: Mena, clidd
Very present posters: Farren, Morning, Ydrasse, GL
<10 posts: Gamma, Dunnstral, Pine
This reminds me of what someone would say if one of their arsonist pals had a lower post count. but you wouldn't dare burn down this lovely forest, would you? there has never been a guarantee in my games that a highly active slot was scum trying to deepwolf. In fact, it hasnt happened often at all.-
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FWIW i do like how you're using your vote to sort me rather than vote Dunn or GL (who hadn't had recent posts at the time) + you scumread them but feel scum is more likely to be someone you're missing in the middle. Does seem to imply you're actually trying to vote who has the highest chance of being scum, if that makes sense.In post 203, Farren wrote:
Leaning Town on clidd and you. Gun to my head, I'd say Dunnstral and GuiltyLion for scum - but my D1 read quality tends to be utter garbage. At least in my last game, the scum were all hiding in the middle of my thoughts by the time D1 came to a close. People who were being active, but not *really* active - people who were participating, but not shining. Probably means I should be looking more at ... Gamma Emerald, Ydrasse, Morning Tweet. And I'm forgetting someone ... Pine. I'd put Pine in the bottom bucket. And I know why I'm doing that, and I hate it.In post 189, Menalque wrote:Farren, do you have any reads yet?
Reminds me of the read on Ydrasse's vote, somewhat.In post 222, clidd wrote:And Scum!Menalque does not approach me directly, like he did here by approaching the subject clearly. He would slowly look at my behavior and use the lack of characteristic features of my towngame to develop suspicions in me without compromising much.
This is somewhat of a stretch, i feel clidd may possibly just wants Mena to be town, so he began with that conclusion and imagined what town!Mena's mindset is and then applied it. Trying to explain townreads is like that sometimes. i am finding the lack of backing down on this read despite GL contesting it to be somewhat towny. I think that clidd truly believes in the tell, strongly, and doesn't get why GL isn't getting it. Perhaps scum!clidd backs down, or at least makes the read weaker?
Alternatively, scum!clidd sees that Mena townreads him, so he mega townbins Mena just so he can pocket someone who townreads him back. Perhaps this is what GL sees. I'll keep thinkingIn post 177, clidd wrote:After thinking for a while (on relax mode on), I just came to my first serious read: Menalque obvtown.-
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I'm interpreting the last few pages as "clidd doing clidd things, he's probably town"In post 255, Gamma Emerald wrote:There’s a lot of meta talk on the last few pages that is going way over my head
I think Mena has an above rand% chance of being town but I dont feel the same way abt him as i do clidd + it's easy for me to say that when half the game doesnt have too much content in comparison yet
Farren and Ydrasse i think i could also foresee getting excited about them being town but we're not there yet
I wonder if scum Mena feels the need to get a solve going so early. At the moment I'm thinking it is more likely Mena is very eager town. Let's suppose that he is.In post 175, Menalque wrote:so like
I think Morning is town.
I think Clidd is town.
I think ydrasse is probably town.
I think GL is probably town, but actually maybe a little weaker than the other three.
Gamma, pine, dunn all null.
Farren is still bit more towards scum, I think. But if my townreads are right, then I think this is winning already.
Spoiler: aftermath
Dunn pretty directly opposes Mena and GL more indirectly does by saying he doesn't find Mena obvtown and saying it's likely an active poster is scum.
@Guilty, i'll add this on to my other question in 232, who were you referring to as the "more active posters" when you said one is very likely to be scum?-
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Hehe, looks like my task today might end up being sorting clidd and then desperately trying to convince everyone he's town, or perhaps instead i'll end up agreeing.
I think town clidd feels a desire to reciprocate townreads. The playing relaxed comment in NAI. Let's see, what else.. I think his read on Mena seems stretchy or contrived because of the first reason.
You theorize that the "unless they're scum" comment is basically a scum habit he didn't think too much about -- since if the intent of 249 was "She analyzed my behaviour correctly", then it makes no sense to attach a "well it's not correct if she's scum though" line. However, I think from the way he words the second part of 249, "she either reads me good or is scum", it implies he isn't focused on the way I got there. He just knows I am correct.In post 279, Isis wrote:
There's just this repeated theme of clidd posting things that seem like poor sketches town thought patterns that are actually unlikely for me to think in that way as town.In post 249, clidd wrote: Morning is interpreting my behavior correctly.
So she is very good at reading me or has information about my alignment (scum). But I am more inclined to the town side, considering that her posts in general are giving me a good feeling by tone (no, I will not do a dissertation to explain why).
This post is actually a logical failing that may be scum indicative. MT posted analysis of clidd's behavior, not just a summary of clidd's alignment; he's conflating the two.
If you give me 3x+4=28, and I say "it's eight", you can say Isis knows prealgebra, or she has an answer key. If I say
3x+4-4=28-4
3x=24
3x/3=24/3
x=8
You don't say "Isis either knows prealgebra or has an answer key". It's demonstrated I know prealgebra whether or not I have an answer key.
If clidd read Tweet's reasoning and the analysis was sound he should be able to say Tweet is good at reading him, unqualified. He's sprinkling "unless they're scum" into his posting as one often does as scum and has managed to do it gratuitously here.
So more or less, despite me writing out an attempted solution to the problem:
I believe clidd has focused on just the answer:In post 233, Morning Tweet wrote:This is somewhat of a stretch, i feel clidd may possibly just wants Mena to be town, so he began with that conclusion and imagined what town!Mena's mindset is and then applied it. Trying to explain townreads is like that sometimes. i am finding the lack of backing down on this read despite GL contesting it to be somewhat towny. I think that clidd truly believes in the tell, strongly, and doesn't get why GL isn't getting it. Perhaps scum!clidd backs down, or at least makes the read weaker?
Alternatively, scum!clidd sees that Mena townreads him, so he mega townbins Mena just so he can pocket someone who townreads him back. Perhaps this is what GL sees. I'll keep thinkingIn post 177, clidd wrote:After thinking for a while (on relax mode on), I just came to my first serious read: Menalque obvtown.
He words it like I have "interpreted him correctly", but i think that largely regardless of the reasoning, he would have said that as long as I gave him a townread. So I think you're in the right vein of reasoning here, but I am yet unsure if that means he is scum.In post 231, Morning Tweet wrote:Clidd I believe has a higher chance of being town from the way he's responding to Mena/GL -- I'm near certain he's genuinely frustrated (177), his reads remind me of previous games with him..-
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I'm saying the intent behind that post doesnt seem like "Morning knows me well and laid it out exactly" as much as "Yup Morning is right I'm town so shes good unless shes scum". He may have sorta made it sound like the former in his first line but the second betrays what he is actually thinkingIn post 296, Isis wrote:
I'm hearing "he scumposted but imagine if he had townposted instead!"In post 295, Morning Tweet wrote:He words it like I have "interpreted him correctly", but
As for reciprocating townreads, scum are naturally incentivized to reciprocate townreads so it's NAI behavior at best (to be fair, maybe also NAI behavior at worst, for him.)
its not a great look but it is conceivable to me that he'd do it as town too, especially if he were to currently be experiencing frustration due to being scumread. I guess perhaps he can be scum latching onto my read and just worded it sloppily. but i can still see viably see my interpretation
reciprocating is NAI imo cause clidd does it a lot and also I personally feel the urge to do it just as much as town-
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You mean where did my townread start, or are u implying i feel some need to defend clidd so i searched thru somewhere to spin up a townread?In post 297, Isis wrote:Tweet what page of the game have you started reading clidd's post with a hope and skew to find town
Cause I feel like it is some page
I more or less think the points brought up against clidd so far have been faulty (the relaxed thing and now his wording of my read on him) -- and i cannot help but townlean his frustration due to the scumreads these brought on. That's probably the best i can explain it at the moment.
I do not know yet if i would go to the end of the world to defend him but i may as well speak about the case thus far and see where we go from there-
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Wouldnt it be weirder if clidd does scummy stuff to the point where he gets exiled, but i maintain his innocence throughout the whole day in spite of all of it, and then he flips green? Like I knew somehow
him flipping red would more or less sound just about like my read accuracy to me
but yeah i suppose we're not going anywhere-
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I'm slightly interested in how you used two posts to reiterate the fact you're a tree and don't need to be worried about getting eliminated -- if you're an experienced player, then trying to forge a newbie townslip by claiming tree immediately would probably be the way to go
i just-- you realize that trees are stumped after death, meaning you don't have to worry about wasting time on a reread since you'll always be helpful. you clearly know what you're talking about
wouldn't you then also have realized that trees shouldn't claim?-
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i figured you weren't new. and alrighty, fair enough!In post 345, tea leaves wrote:I've played more than 5 games so I wouldn't call myself a newb. I think you're being rude to the firefighter who could be me since they're also a Tree at heart.-
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I suppose i interpreted this differently than how you intended, maybe. The only two players i found to have a remarkable amount of posts were clidd and Mena. I wouldn't have considered anyone else to be an unreasonable amount that suggests "trying to establish a good foothold"In post 221, GuiltyLion wrote:it's very likely that one of the more active posters is scum trying to establish a good foothold in the game-
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I have played a surprising amount of games where the scumteam is just the easiest / lowest posting answer. although it isn't always, it is certainly a valid possibility and I start to entertain it more and more as i collect townreadsIn post 362, GuiltyLion wrote:I feel you're misrepresenting me in the last paragraph here, I didn't say "highly active" or anything about deepwolfing, I was making the point that someone who's actually playing the game is probably scum, because I felt potentially scum!clidd was avoiding causing any friction with people actually present in the thread. And as a rejoinder I'll ask you how often do you see in your games the entire scumteam with <10 posts by page 10?
A few games I can remember where the whole scumteam was the bottom activity players: A werewolf/vampire/warlock, a schadd's mysterybox i played, and hectic's kill switch -- the entire scumteam in all of these games were the bottom posters or just about.
there was also beeboy's why gun?? but it was less about scum being inactive, more them just posting exclusively fluff whereas the rest of the game played
I suppose my point is that scum can viably all be in the lower activity players and there is no guarantee of an active one, so I was somewhat interested in you saying it was "very likely" an active poster was scum. But if you meant the whole playerlist besides Pine/Dunn then i suppose that is fair enough-
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It reminded me of Silent Star, however, you were super present during RVS of silent star. My running scum theory is that you feel the need to get your foot in the door at the start of the game, take a single stance (like your scumread on midway), and then hang back for a whileIn post 411, Dunnstral wrote:I feel like Morning Tweet should be calling me out for my lack of presence in this game or something
Your pattern this game hasnt quite matched that yet so im watching n waiting c;-
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I thought it was a very thoughtful, methodical approach to playing the game. But i have no reason to believe Farren only does this as scum.In post 408, tea leaves wrote:[
119: Exactly what I mean in Farren, Morning Tweet! But why don't you just call him out on it instead of mentioning it in this shady way?
at the moment (or at least during that post) i was honestly taken back by the deliberateness of his posts. There was part of me that goes "Really, you had all that planned out?" but I dont quite see why scum!Farren would feel the need to over explain his minor interactions.
And im guessing from the way Farren explains in some of his later posts, he has a tendency to play like this (although I havent checked)-
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It's funny how i liked clidd but tea leaves' over emphasis on being a tree + explicitly claiming tree just feels weird to me.In post 425, Isis wrote:I mean if you think it's a forged townslip you need to murder it, I still think the slot is scummy. I bought into it. But maybe I shouldn't.
For some reason I feel like 342 is a scummy post if it's not catching scum but I don't feel very able to articulate why.
Probably how it's such a stinging accusation so gently worded?
Which might be a tweet thing and have to do with me scumreading her every game, but it might not have to do with that, what can I do about it.
Essentially i could tell they werent a new player, so i wondered if they were going for the newish player townslip approach. Scum has a lot to gain from townslipping a tree claim, town doesnt really have much reason to emphasize it. Tea was like "Hah I didnt think I'd be a tree, but I am that's nice! ... Hah I didnt want to reread but I'm a tree so that's nice!" twoish posts apart
Town doesnt really need to do that other than for WIFOM I guess which is what they claimed to be doing. So idk.
I love your line about gently wording a stinging accusation. describes it perfectly-
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im the kind of player who will apologize for playing bad if other ppl are pushing meIsis wrote:you're complimenting me! I'm attacking you!
Orlytea leaves wrote:
No that's not what I was trying to do. I was just claiming I was a townie and Tree is the flavor for townies in this game.In post 428, Morning Tweet wrote:Town doesnt really need to do that other than for WIFOM I guess which is what they claimed to be doing. So idk.
hmmmm-
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Mm! A bunch of people concluded the tea leaves "slip" was NAI (namely Guilty and Farren if i recall right). If tea felt comfortable claiming Tree immediately, that implies to me they didn't have a great grasp of the setup -- they probably just figured tree was vanilla townie and therefore you were either a tree or mafia.
However, had tea leaves rolled arsonist, then they don't have knowledge of the whole tree mechanic until they look at the setup. They may neglect to look at the setup immediately (meaning they wouldn't have opened with claiming tree) or maybe they did look at the setup. If they did look at the setup, they would have noticed there's a PR, which again might have dissuaded them from claiming tree immediately. However, if they are going to decide to claim tree, then that's a conscious decision to fake a townslip imo
I think if all of this is correct, then tea leaves has a lesser chance of flipping arsonist because I think it's more likely town tea leaves thinks the entire town is trees rather than scum tea leaves tries to forge a townslip-
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i also did an Isis writeup that makes me want to believe Isis is town but it's meta so
Isis -
I feel like Isis played with little to no direction on the first day in purgatory (scum). She posted 80-90% fluff, and when it wasn't fluff it was still mostly one-liner questions. She condensed her effort into one or two walls and she did a garner fair bit of towncred for looking agendaless and for making those big effort posts if i recall correct
I dont have total confidence that is 100% how she plays scum but her play there and here is like total night and day. It may be because that setup was a lot less balanced so maybe she felt inclined to play less seriously
I checked through crossfire next (scum again). Specifically i looked just at posts in the first half of the game, it feels different to here but I'm not sure why. She doesn't have any posts that are emotive, she speaks pretty much matter of fact. In this game she's been extremely hyped up by her clidd read (and subsequently disappointed), conflicted/frustrated about my alignment, and whatever the OMGUS bit with tea leaves is. Some of that goes into fluff territory like purgatory but it doesn't come close to dominating her posts like it did in that game
i think Isis enjoys playing scum less and maybe the excessive fluff posting or exclusively seriously toned posts are a manifestation of that (She had a few non serious posts in crossfire, but they were more like "This made me laugh" or "Who did you roll scum with?")
Why did i devote so much time to the Isis read despite it being meta and therefore garbage? i was hoping modding a game with her in it will give me 100% read accuracy (since previously I'm maybe 1 for 3)
(((it didn't though)))-
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Bouncing off this cause lazy
Yes to Isis town
I hypothesized that Ydrasse as scum feels a greater need to contribute early, but tbh I dont know about it. Maybe. I kind of see town but I also can see her being scum too -- There hasn't been a lot of content thus far and it's possible Ydrasse as scum just doesnt have a lot to say
Thinking the way Farren speaks is just him. I think there was one or two posts I liked from him early. I see he interpreted the tea leaves' 'townslip' similarly to how I did at first. Wonder what he'll think now
Yup that sounds like me alright
Gamma i have a couple games i could use as a frame of reference to read off of. I would say he is similar to the town one thus far but it's not hard to fake nor do I know if it's AI yet
Dunny played pretty hard in RVS last time I saw him as scum, but then spent the rest of the day inactive with one pocket/vanity scumread. This game is that minus the RVS part. I played a town game with him where he was very active and solvey and pushy etc. I wonder what switches Dunn on.. I would hypothesize his alignment does but he himself calls me out for not calling him out on this in 411. But then again that's a total scum move to grab cred via WIFOM so I'm not going to give him points for that.
My first town experience with GL, he locktowned me early and we mindmelded quite a lot. My second, I couldn't figure out if it was him or someone else who was scum and sadly I chose incorrectly. So no help from past games. In this game in particular it felt to me he was shading the active slots for no reason, although it seems quite likely I misinterpreted him combined with him using somewhat too strong phrasing. It's possible he did that on purpose but I doubt it. I wonder if his Ydrasse push is genuine. I agree that she feels different to my last game with her (460). I am not willing to townread him yet
agree on pineSpoiler: Reads (rated by above or below Pine)
Pine is actually a little lower probably but i wanted to make the joke and it didn't work as well if i didn't put him in the middle-
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o i forgot to specify, we were TvT both times.In post 501, tea leaves wrote:
In the game you chose incorrectly was he scum or town? And why isn't that help you can compare how he is to those games maybe.In post 499, Morning Tweet wrote:My first town experience with GL, he locktowned me early and we mindmelded quite a lot. My second, I couldn't figure out if it was him or someone else who was scum and sadly I chose incorrectly. So no help from past games.
My point is i had very different experiences with him (or at least how I read him). My perception of him sticks out in my mind better than his play itself in those games -- and since I got two different results even though he was town in both games, I don't really have anything helpful to use from those experiences. It might be worthwhile to note the game we both started from the beginning I townread him pretty hard, but the one I replaced in to like 70 pages I did not
I know Guilty is a great town player but I don't know much about his scum game. I could try n do detailed meta analysis on those past games if i really wanted to but i dont think it'd be all that helpful and quite frankly not that fun. i think meta has its place in some instances but I like to references games i was personally in, and with these two, I have nothing useful that i know of-
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Dunnstral -
Basically no content yet. He has 10 posts, but around half of them aren't super game related. I'll grab the ones that areIn post 183, Dunnstral wrote:What makes you suppose he's right on all his townreads?In post 184, Dunnstral wrote:
This seems opportunistic if farren is town.In post 175, Menalque wrote:I think Morning is town.
I think Clidd is town.
I think ydrasse is probably town.
I think GL is probably town, but actually maybe a little weaker than the other three.
Gamma, pine, dunn all null.In post 186, Menalque wrote:Why does it seem opportunistic, dunn?
This combined with GL's scum in the actives comment made me wonder if there's an arsonist who felt the need to push back against Mena's early townlist. Dunn directly goes into a contrarian mode against Mena, whereas Guilty more subtlely implied there's scum in the active players (Mena was townreading almost all the activeish players).In post 187, Dunnstral wrote:You put all the low posters in your null pile, which is actually just your scum pile but you're not calling it that
I am curious as to why the only thing in the thread Dunn opted to comment at the time on was this. What made it the main thing that caught his eye, i mean. I'd like to talk about it more but I'm actually kind of missing what his point is too. What does putting the low posters in null and Farren in scum have to do with being opportunistic?
In post 304, Dunnstral wrote:Spoiler: me sitting here with 5 posts while clidd has 102 and is pushing me but he's getting pushed instead:
This feels like WIFOM!! But you're rightIn post 411, Dunnstral wrote:I feel like Morning Tweet should be calling me out for my lack of presence in this game or something
Dunn, although you may be correct that I should be one to notice you're gone -- what was the point of pointing it out in 411? Does it make you think im scummy? I struggle to find what the intention behind pointing it out was
Unless you're scum in which case it makes you look good in an indirect way. It's like a way to compensate for being inactive-- you point it out yourself before I or someone else does and it makes you look good for calling attention to something potentially scummy about yourself unprompted-
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GuiltyLion -
Spoiler:
In summary, strongly disagree with clidd analysis, it felt like possibly bad faith, but also I might just be in disagreement with GL on it which makes it look that way to me. The active players comment i BELIEVE was a misunderstanding on my part, it makes more sense the way GL explained it. I have no issues with his subsequent read on Ydrasse really. I'll need to check her out more. Not willing to eliminate guilty atm from what ive seen
VOTE: Dunnstral-
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I agree with you it isn't garbage. Meta absolutely destroys my scum game, or at least i assume it would cause I havent been scum in ages.In post 510, Farren wrote:
Meta's not garbage.In post 498, Morning Tweet wrote:Why did i devote so much time to the Isis read despite it being meta and therefore garbage? i was hoping modding a game with her in it will give me 100% read accuracy (since previously I'm maybe 1 for 3)
(((it didn't though)))
It's a tool. It doesn't produce foolproof results. But it can be indicative at times. Sometimes it can be indicative of the lengths people will go to to get results.
I was starting to waver on Isis; this makes me less inclined to do that.
But i feel like when i use meta as reasoning for a read, it turns off a lot of people. That and sometimes it feels like meta is very interpretive, you can find things that prove your point while ignoring the rest if you're not careful (or if ur scum) -- and people are probably not going to hassle to do their own research so they largely just have your word to go off of.
It has its place though!-
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Haha that reminds me of one of my previous games with him. Even i was able to create a good enough scumcase for him to be elimed (he was town i was not)In post 566, Isis wrote:Gamma seemed to be playing in the perfect way to get himself killed and so i like want to go opposite and not kill him
er people don't die in this setup but yknow what i mean
The way I remember him, he starts with some early fluff, he chimes in on a few things, he doesn't have time to make big posts so he makes small ones, he gets mistaken for scum by some at first, but gets eliminated a bit further down the line
But I mean his scum game could also be the same i dont think I've seen him as scum-- id have to check. This game in particular, though..
I kinda like this stretch of postsSpoiler:
Tbh going through there's nothing i dislike, maybe a few gut town pings based on tone-
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This is unprecedented, isis -- are you sure?!In post 552, Isis wrote:It might be lazy but I want to town bucket the bat
You've never let me go inside the town bucket before.. i was always stuck in the time-out corner-
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In post 573, Isis wrote:that's not true I townread you in purgatory cause you were a demonOk, i guess ill let that count..-
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Tea leaves is the most controversial and confusing slot, maybe ever!
Or maybe that's just artifically inflated by the number of times Isis has unvoted and revoted them
I have no strong opinions about anything that has happened since i last posted. i will try again tomorrow but i really rewally wanna talk to Dunn.
Ydrasse seems rather comfortable I wonder if that makes her town. I still think Isis is town. I assume tea leaves is town but i haven't been following the most recent developments between them and Isis, so can I really be sure?-
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nYoooOOOOIn post 646, Isis wrote:Morning Tweet are you trying to end our friendship
You're probably wrong about tea though. Unless you had a revelation about her that i missed
Isis do you subconsciously not even believe that tea is scumIn post 668, Farren wrote:
Can't stump scum. Just kill them. What happened to that confidence about scum|tea leaves?In post 665, Isis wrote:but i hate tea leaves so much that i want to stump her and then cheat on her
(Nah I could see replacing elim with stump too. I don't think this means anything)
Glad to see we can come to an agreement on Mena/Clidd or Isis/teaIn post 697, Bell wrote:Based off my first 3 pages I feel like pine's current vote was cool and good and do not know why there are not more votes on Ydrasse.
Farren second. Kind of complex headspace there.
Clidd townie. Clidd town. -> Cliid obvtown.
Mena??? Eh. Cool he threw down the policy lurker card, a mena favorite. And Mena Convo with Clidd veered into his principled territory. Probs town. Cool. Two town reads so far.
Mena & Clidd slots can town block with me when they feel like I've earned their recognition.
Morning Tweet: Ydrasse question seems a little bit creative.
Dunstral: Scummeh.
GulityLion. Not familiar with Clidd's sudden read flips or hard town reads based on empathy. Or just trying to break that up. Honest rxn to Farren.
Gamma. Not much to bite into.
Page 1- Page 10.
I am thinkin and thinkin about Ydrasse I should really ISO her sometime when i'm feeling like it-
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!!!! I thought the "Vote GL or Gamma exactly" thing was sort of weirdIn post 700, GuiltyLion wrote:I don't have a sense of Dunn's reads on anybody in this game
and I don't like Farren using me as justification to not vote Dunnstral
Yes!!!! these are good reads!!!!!!! yay guilty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!In post 701, GuiltyLion wrote:overall I think I'm like here
{Isis, MT}
{tea leaves, Gamma}
{Bell, Farren}
{Dunn, Ydrasse}
Isis I'm not following 600, what's the inconsistency there
As long as you're town anyway. no read compliments for scum-
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I had the link to the scum PT, but no access. I think i may have been the arsonist who wasn't meant to be !In post 710, Farren wrote:I did not see anything in the scum PT beyond the mod's opening post before it disappeared on me.
I'm going to sleep on 698. The closest I can think of right now for scum agenda there is generic stuff, value zero.
UNVOTE: GuiltyLion
this is too fukimng COMPLICATEDIn post 711, Isis wrote:
Read her iso, she wiggles between Farren being a stronger read, or Farren being a more "interesting" read, or there not being any difference really. She is truthfully reporting on the best of her recollection of her emulated reasoning, but that recollection is weaker because they are emulations.In post 701, GuiltyLion wrote:overall I think I'm like here
{Isis, MT}
{tea leaves, Gamma}
{Bell, Farren}
{Dunn, Ydrasse}
Isis I'm not following 600, what's the inconsistency there
Maybe you're right. Or maybe you're reading too much into tea leaves' recollection-
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THE ONLY THING THAT PINGS ME ABT TEA IS THAT THEY KEEP BRINGING UP BEING STUMPED and what they'll do afterIn post 774, tea leaves wrote:It's ok though. I have a contingency plan if I am forced into the tree stumped lifestyle and I'm already gathering a collection of cool trees to post as motivational support if they chop me down.
Still think they're town tho
Can we do Dunn first? pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease
I also would prefer Ydrasse but i should probably get on that reread of her first