Open 800 - Donner Party | Game Over

[superbowl9]

VOTE: JohnnyFarrar
One of the black and white avis must die

[superbowl9]

Oh whats up ari! I feel like you rolled scum this game for some weird reason

[superbowl9]

I generally use pfp for profile pic offsite, here it’s all avatar/avi

Because we're all old here

[superbowl9]

I generally use pfp for profile pic offsite, here it’s all avatar/avi

Because we're all old here

This site is stuck 5 years in the past

[superbowl9]

Wait... deadline is 9 DAYS? 9... days? lol Like... Day 1 is made of 10 days?

yeah this site has really long days for some reason

Yeah i prefer epicmafia

[superbowl9]

Ohey that's when I joined!!!

And I somewhat disagree. The site and its meta has changed an awful lot in the last 5 years.
One of the great things about this site though it the long-standing members of the community that are still not only around but active! They're probably why we have held onto some older traditions though. And I'm okay with that if it keeps us a little more mature than some other sites.

No that’s what makes this the best mafia community imo, gamewise meta is always great. Because people stay for so long though some of our pop culture is aging

[superbowl9]

Snoooooooore

@guillotine where you played before did you scumread people who posted four pages of nothing?

Good to know you’re town

[superbowl9]

If you think that was a long tangent you should see the game I just played...

Also I think you’re scum so I’m not gonna answer 101 for now

[superbowl9]

No but you should omgus scumread me

[superbowl9]

What’s up chk!

[superbowl9]

5 pages of no real substance though isn't great

Why is it that this post happens every RVS ever played?? Why do people think they see no content (there is AI content in these pages so idek what ur on in the first place), then instead of generating content just complain about it and dip??? I never understand it

[superbowl9]

I'm a fan of superbowl's easy going style and throwing out gut reads, I think the looseness is pretty towny.

-tabletop

You’re right but i’m not accepting buddies at this time sadly

[superbowl9]

shellyc being in the chaos hydra changes my rvs approach
VOTE: triforce
they are too dangerous to be left alive
im also betting shelly is the azula in the trio

Hello again! That is rude. Does Plusjoyed enjoy getting policy limmed?

-saltythenoraabackatitagain

Save me a spot on this pls

[superbowl9]

5 pages of no real substance though isn't great

Why is it that this post happens every RVS ever played?? Why do people think they see no content (there is AI content in these pages so idek what ur on in the first place), then instead of generating content just complain about it and dip??? I never understand it

also probably because this site's meta for sod1 sucks? lol

So your approach to D1 is “sit back and let others do the work for me”. Good to know

[superbowl9]

I'm a fan of superbowl's easy going style and throwing out gut reads, I think the looseness is pretty towny.

-tabletop

You’re right but i’m not accepting buddies at this time sadly

already have enough buddies in a PT with you?

Thanks for outing us

[superbowl9]

I can see now why they elim you first every game buddy... you are clearly too dynamic a thinker for scum to leave around

[superbowl9]

VOTE: DoubtingThomas

[superbowl9]

5 pages of no real substance though isn't great

Why is it that this post happens every RVS ever played?? Why do people think they see no content (there is AI content in these pages so idek what ur on in the first place), then instead of generating content just complain about it and dip??? I never understand it

also probably because this site's meta for sod1 sucks? lol

So your approach to D1 is “sit back and let others do the work for me”. Good to know

how does this even make sense? i dont think you are understanding stuff correctly here or you arent communicating to me correctly

“Nobody is doing anything good in the first 5 pages”
“This site’s D1 meta sucks”

Aside from being not true statements, these take YOU out of the equation and put the burden on everyone else to play how you see fit so that you can come in and start catching scum. You had the opportunity to influence the first 5 pages didn’t you? You have the opportunity to influence what we do D1 don’t you? Yet instead of DOING it you sit back and complain about how nobody is doing it for you. Even in this post I’m responding to you shift the blame to me for “not communicating to you correctly”. That’s what I mean and before you ask it’s not why I voted you

[superbowl9]

I can see now why they elim you first every game buddy... you are clearly too dynamic a thinker for scum to leave around

huh? Dynamic players scums love to have around because they naturally attract scum reads and often times push them for the scums benefits. the way you are saying it makes it sound like scums would want to kill dynamic players at night or try to push in the day? i think that's very far from the truth. maybe just my opinion

Is this gonna be a game where I have to use /s

[superbowl9]

Spoiler:

5 pages of no real substance though isn't great

Why is it that this post happens every RVS ever played?? Why do people think they see no content (there is AI content in these pages so idek what ur on in the first place), then instead of generating content just complain about it and dip??? I never understand it

also probably because this site's meta for sod1 sucks? lol

So your approach to D1 is “sit back and let others do the work for me”. Good to know

how does this even make sense? i dont think you are understanding stuff correctly here or you arent communicating to me correctly

like talking about useless shit = beneficial to scums who benefits from thread not talking about the game

since i've played quite a few mafiascum games now, this happens every single SoD1 and honestly for the longest time

this site meta is shit. saying that it's shit doesn't mean i am 'sitting back and letting others do the work for me' in fact, no one really has done much more work than me.

besides the fact that it's not true, i am not sure how you can even get to that conclusion from what i've wrote. it's very clear that we, at the least, have different ways of understanding things, but still the communication is poor and you voting me here like that makes little sense, imo. thinking you should have voted me before, not like hours after you said something and i haven't done anything itt for your read to change on me

it also seems like you have no opinion on Guillotine or any other people that said something meaningful during that time too. seems like your push on me is fixated which is more likely scum

Ah yes we should have simply jumped into a rich analysis of the AI content available at post 2! Or maybe we should have used the “are you scum??” question, or massclaimed? SO many other options than the peabrained RVSer can comprehend.

But seriously, what have you done this game? You say my push is manufactured but has it not generated the most AI content in the game so far? If you think that anything guillotine is saying is useful that might explain things though...

[superbowl9]

see your shading continues. you dare to shade my push on him which includes a lot more than just hypocrisy by saying that hypocrisy isn't scum indicative?

lmao ok sure thats clearly what I'm doing

-nornor

yes. you don't have any logic nor facts to counter my argument but just shading me right now , aren't you?

DoubtingThomas DESTROYS liberal hydra using FACTS and LOGIC

[superbowl9]

Come on you were supposed to post that in the PT!!

[superbowl9]

YO SUPERBOWL DID YOU RAND SCUM WITHOUT ME!?

You’ll know if you’re dead by tomorrow

[superbowl9]

TWBTAW

What does this mean

too wolfy to be a wolf (too scummy to be scum)

A term I now see shifting into Openwolfing which I like 100x better!

I feel like these two are different terms tbf

[superbowl9]

noraa + superb might be fishing for a reason to go after Thomas but it's unlikely. Thomas being obstinate also feels like a towntell; scum would have less issue with fluff

Im lowkey insulted if you think this is me fishing for a mislim ToT

[superbowl9]

Superbowl is town.

That's exactly what scumfuck soupbowl wants you to think

[superbowl9]

Yeah the entire point-by-point response was just twisting everything I said until you could reasonably turn it against me. No thanks, not dignifying that with a proper breakdown.

It was not my intention to twist and turn it against you. It's a habit. I'm a psychologist.

Is this a roleclaim?

[superbowl9]

5 pages of no real substance though isn't great

Why is it that this post happens every RVS ever played?? Why do people think they see no content (there is AI content in these pages so idek what ur on in the first place), then instead of generating content just complain about it and dip??? I never understand it

Ok. I'll bite. What AI content was in the first 5 pages?

Not gonna handhold you through how to play the game unless i want your vote somewhere

[superbowl9]

I can see now why they elim you first every game buddy... you are clearly too dynamic a thinker for scum to leave around

If i was a town roleblocker i would roleblock you on N1 for this comment. Yah, you also know what this comment means.

Yeah watch your back buddy im coming for you tonight

[superbowl9]

I feel like im in a newbie

[superbowl9]

Watch out for ari this game tho plus don’t just shove that in town

[superbowl9]

Also I can sympathize(not sure if this is the right word) with the chaos wagon but i can’t shake the feeling scum is getting a free mislim. Not sure if im willing to stick my neck out for the slot yet though

[superbowl9]

Down to elim guillotine just to raise the level of play, you’re posting way too much for someone doing pretty much nothing VOTE: Guillotina

[superbowl9]

I feel like im in a newbie

why

Watch out for ari this game tho plus don’t just shove that in town

agree, was in another game with him where he was town recently enough and I think his vibe here is different
he feels a bit tepid this game, is the best way to put it

You’ve been acting like bad play isn’t bad this game which is really confusing and pinging me a little? I feel like you should know bad play w/ your flair and join date. Haven’t called it out cause I want you to get to D2 at least this time ToT

[superbowl9]

Besides for the obvious thing you pointed out gamma which you don’t need to go into

[superbowl9]

what is your read on ari superb? My experience with ari is rather limited and they haven't posted anything of substance so I'm not sure

At this point im just kinda wary, don’t have enough info

[superbowl9]

Gonna lurk now so i can help tmrw lmk who we mislim

[superbowl9]

*Someone else points out that someone is scum for reason A, B, C*

*Normal mafia players everywhere else*
*Hm, well reason A isn't true because of D, B might not be true for D, E*

*Mafia scum players*
Mafiascum player 1:Yeah I don't like playing with town cores
Mafiascum player 2:Lol, tHeY EaSilY sTiLl ToWn (doesn't explain anything)
Mafiascum player 3: Piss fighting! Bye! (does absolutely nothing)

clap clap

Haha yeah this mafiascum site sucks I'm going back to epicmafia for quality RVS

Whenever I say something people don't bow down and agree with my clearly superior opinion! I just don't get people here smh

[superbowl9]

What is actually helping scum is letting the dunning kruger effect run our town

[superbowl9]

it's noted that tayl0r swift is too good for me and won't even read my posts.

im not singling you out. i skimmed the thread but ughhh it was such a slog

Wanna elim in DT/Guillotine with me so we dont have to read this anymore

[superbowl9]

I appreciate your sigs nora

[superbowl9]

If you really think guillotine and dt leading all our important discussion is not an issue gamma then Ima have to vote you

[superbowl9]

Check the activity log or just read the game...

[superbowl9]

Only reason im trying to policy lim is because if I had to call a scum right now it would be you

[superbowl9]

You’re legitimately trying to push 2 of my confident TRs for a policy yeet here. I’m not happy about that in the slightest, I know you’re a much better player than that.

I mean and for game health like that’s the policy behind the lim

[superbowl9]

How did that quote

[superbowl9]

What are they doing that is “hurting the game health”? It honestly seems like you just want to get rid of slots you can’t manipulate.

Dude are you serious? They literally wallpost about ticky-tack technicalities, focused more on proving a point than reaching an objective. They center discussion around themselves because of their (wildly undeserved) unchecked egos. Their play shows no sign of subtlety or care for sensitive information (as you yourself have pointed out) and they are OMGUS prone. It’s just typical newer player stuff. I’m kind of disappointed I have to explain any of this to you - you really think they’re helping you develop reads and that they’re taking effective actions to improve gamestate??? It feels like I’m handholding you through all this as much as I am the new people though, like do I have to explain what makes good town discussions to you? I’m more inclined to believe you’re willing to throw up easy townreads to defend those creating poor gamestate

[superbowl9]

I see no reason to continue spending my freetime playing a forum game to be insulted by strangers on the internet who obsess on winning a game with no stakes behind it. I don't feel like I'm the only one who feels this game has become toxic either. I'm replacing out.

For future reference you’re not supposed to talk about replacing out in the game

[superbowl9]

1) Show me examples of ticky-tack technicalities that we the noobs did wallpost please.

LMAO the irony

[superbowl9]

Also don’t i know you from somewhere cat man?

[superbowl9]

Also don’t i know you from somewhere cat man?

we played together once a long time ago~

Wow throwback! Good to see you again!

[superbowl9]

yea I understand that, and that's what I tried to leave him alone too, until he's called for a policy lim on me despite leaving the thread and coming back and avoiding me. I was trying to respect his choice to avoid me thinking it was a personality clash.

However, him calling for policy lim on me, that's pretty shitty play, I guess regardless of his alignment. I am doing him a favor by saying he's a wolf not a town atp. I don't t hink a sane town will be calling for policy lim's for things I've done and in that fashion that is very outting.

The reason I'm ignoring you is because interacting with you won't help me nor anyone else win this game. Although I do find your posts about me quite funny

[superbowl9]

Highly doubt you will be modkilled for hydra slipping Nora LOL

[superbowl9]

Wanted to join to say hi, unfortunately starting to think you miiight be scum~

a short-lived reuinion

[superbowl9]

Also you down to hop on guillotina chaos? I think it's as good a D1 elim as we're gonna get

[superbowl9]

What are they doing that is “hurting the game health”? It honestly seems like you just want to get rid of slots you can’t manipulate.

Dude are you serious? They literally wallpost about ticky-tack technicalities, focused more on proving a point than reaching an objective. They center discussion around themselves because of their (wildly undeserved) unchecked egos. Their play shows no sign of subtlety or care for sensitive information (as you yourself have pointed out) and they are OMGUS prone. It’s just typical newer player stuff. I’m kind of disappointed I have to explain any of this to you - you really think they’re helping you develop reads and that they’re taking effective actions to improve gamestate??? It feels like I’m handholding you through all this as much as I am the new people though, like do I have to explain what makes good town discussions to you? I’m more inclined to believe you’re willing to throw up easy townreads to defend those creating poor gamestate

DT I can’t really vouch for how I think he’ll get better throughout the game, but guillotina at least seems genuinely considerate and thoughtful, even if it comes out a little off. And even if DT is “hurting game health”, I think he’s done stuff that seems a bit wonky to come from scum by pressing PJ like he did. Town!Noraa actually did a similar thing in the Haunted Village game with PJ. I think PJ just naturally has that sort of inability to process his own wrongness of his logic in a meaningful way, and town tend to react by thinking he’s being disingenuous.
I’d honestly probably FoS someone who out-the-gate didn’t think such an action was worth reprimand of some sort.

You can be a nice guy and run a game into the ground at the same time. I don’t always elim the person who I think is most likely to be scum. I elim the person who provides the greatest marginal utility by dying. I believe at this moment that guillotine or DT’s scum chances + the benefit of removing a bunch of distraction posts gives me more of a chance of winning the game than taking a chance on someone like you who I scumlean.

So to say “well yeah but what have they done that’s scummy???” doesn’t really give me pause because it doesnt address why I’m actually pushing this.

[superbowl9]

Starting to believe me now gamma?

[superbowl9]

And I feel like their posting isn’t as bad as you try to put it. Sure guillo’s 651 looks like a bunch of confbiased overeager theorycrafting garbage, but it also seems like a real take at least.

This is EXACTLY what I’m talking about. It’s an overton window shift, we’re now having a discsussion about whether or not what Guillo said is really THAT bad or not. I’m saying can we ditch this and have more productive conversations?

[superbowl9]

And I feel like their posting isn’t as bad as you try to put it. Sure guillo’s 651 looks like a bunch of confbiased overeager theorycrafting garbage, but it also seems like a real take at least.

This is EXACTLY what I’m talking about. It’s an overton window shift, we’re now having a discsussion about whether or not what Guillo said is really THAT bad or not. I’m saying can we ditch this and have more productive conversations?

Ok sure! Who’s ACTUALLY scum to you rn, and why?

No one really sticks out as huge scum so far, but I’ve got plently of people I’d like to prod a bit more, including you.

And I feel like their posting isn’t as bad as you try to put it. Sure guillo’s 651 looks like a bunch of confbiased overeager theorycrafting garbage, but it also seems like a real take at least.

This is EXACTLY what I’m talking about. It’s an overton window shift, we’re now having a discsussion about whether or not what Guillo said is really THAT bad or not. I’m saying can we ditch this and have more productive conversations?

What would you define as 'more productive'?

Plus was a great example of someone who can be productive even if he sometimes has poor ideas. He’ll put his idea out there but won’t draw the discussion of the game towards an idea unless he really thinks it’s worth it. I can’t tell you the exact criteria behind a productive mafia post or playstyle, but I can show you things that are actively unproductive when I see them

[superbowl9]

Gamma isn't the droid we're looking for imo.

Can you elaborate on this?

[superbowl9]

BM is it time for us to team up again? Knowing you you'll think I rolled scum this game

[superbowl9]

the whole thing looked a bit overwhelming for him. I understand you were upset. The problem is that you end up scaring the shit out of the person your clashing with.

If you think I backed down because I was scared of clashing with a big personality you don't know me well enough. I'm not going to drag the thread into a meaningless argument, you saw how much DT ranted about me when I wasn't even responding. I got what was useful from the interaction and stopped there.

[superbowl9]

PLEASE because right now the townblock is weird gamma and 2 newbies

[superbowl9]

@superb I still townread DT but I am willing to lim guillo now

Great let’s get wagoning!

[superbowl9]

Oh hi bm

hi Johnny

are you scum?

if not, who is scum?

did i claim yet?

if so, what?

Hey, naw, prolly Taylor she's like present and actively keeping up, and no lol not this time

This seems wrong to me? She hasnt been present at all and has a reason for keeping up but lurking (toxicity), you could say you don’t buy it but saying she’s actively here seems weird

[superbowl9]

Gamma isn't the droid we're looking for imo.

Can you elaborate on this?

I'm not getting a single scum ping from the meta with Scum!Gamma.

Gotcha, you have more meta than me and I’ve been trying to figure out stuff i view as weird/confusing but not necessarily scummy. I’ll give him a townpoint as long as you’re not scum

[superbowl9]

I don't really support a guillotina vote today.

Why not?

[superbowl9]

See what im talking about in 663 BM

[superbowl9]

I would compromise on pob BM idk if that has support though. Also remember the vig can take care of one slot we dont elim

[superbowl9]

why is everyone so convinced there is a vig? did I miss something?

It's literally any open game...

[superbowl9]

BM/DT what are you two talking about rn?

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING LIKE ALL CONVERSATIONS IN THIS DAMN GAME

[superbowl9]

I haven’t seen DT put his ego out into the thread like a bronzed horse turd

WHAT??? Are we reading the same posts??

[superbowl9]

someone else besides superb (cuz i am not talking to them anymore) point to any real scum reads that superb has had? he's called for me and guillo's policy lim and then now a 'compromise' on pob long? lol why is this town again?

Yeah superb actually sorted in my last game with him and did at least okay at it. That’s why I asked if I am overrating his skill earlier.

Kind of hard to sort when all our interactions are lead by the 3 stooges

[superbowl9]

BM I would hop on DT with you but it seems like they are widely townread there so I think wagoning is somewhat futile. Guillo is more likely to pick up steam from my perspective

[superbowl9]

someone else besides superb (cuz i am not talking to them anymore) point to any real scum reads that superb has had? he's called for me and guillo's policy lim and then now a 'compromise' on pob long? lol why is this town again?

Yeah superb actually sorted in my last game with him and did at least okay at it. That’s why I asked if I am overrating his skill earlier.

Kind of hard to sort when all our interactions are lead by the 3 stooges

who are the 3 stooges?

Gamma guillo and DT

[superbowl9]

BM I would hop on DT with you but it seems like they are widely townread there so I think wagoning is somewhat futile. Guillo is more likely to pick up steam from my perspective

you dont think it would be valuable nonetheless? he seems to be crumbling under the pressure of 1 vote already.

I already did this right after we got out of RVS, I thought it made DT look like an obviously good elim target but this town does not agree so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[superbowl9]

superb's main reason for scum reading guillo is because they should be policy elimed haha don't listen to him

LOL

[superbowl9]

why is everyone so convinced there is a vig? did I miss something?

It's literally any open game...

You've done this more than once : point something out about me that someone else has already pointed out. It's kinda scummy ngl.

-nornor

I hope this is a joke but if not catching up is a thing

[superbowl9]

there's literally no consensus on anybody though...

I mean we only have about 7 active players anyways, Nora and johnny both TR DT so i don't think we're getting them, I think it's just me and you willing to hop on atp

[superbowl9]

I thought your pob idea was a good one, but apparently we were vetoed by the big 3 on that too -.-

[superbowl9]

I thought your pob idea was a good one, but apparently we were vetoed by the big 3 on that too -.-

im getting flashbacks to 'the other hood'

[superbowl9]

OH my bad, I should probly post this here then:

VOTE: Doubting Thomas

[superbowl9]

Okay enough clowning for today VOTE: Guillotina

[superbowl9]

Not really easy to explain. My feeling is, may be loud, annoying, distracting, but that doesn't necessarily add up to scummy, even if his case is bad I don't think it's a rabbit hole scum goes down. I also agree with battle mage in that I don't expect scum to pursue a loud, high-impact approach to the game on day 1 in this setup.

I assume you TR DT for the same reasoning then?

[superbowl9]

Who are you willing to elim today taylor

[superbowl9]

someone else besides superb (cuz i am not talking to them anymore) point to any real scum reads that superb has had? he's called for me and guillo's policy lim and then now a 'compromise' on pob long? lol why is this town again?

Yeah superb actually sorted in my last game with him and did at least okay at it. That’s why I asked if I am overrating his skill earlier.

Kind of hard to sort when all our interactions are lead by the 3 stooges

who are the 3 stooges?

Gamma guillo and DT

Ok, look, one thing is attacking the play and lie about me and all the stuff that your red faction is supposed to do, because it is part of the bubble. Another one is disrespecting me the way you did there.

May I remind you of rule #3?

"Behaviour - Be respectful. This is a heated game but toxicity will not be tolerated. Attack the play not the player. If your fellow players tell you to stop, you must stop. If you do not stop, I will tell you to stop."

So,

STOP

Okay, sorry if you feel I crossed a line. I will be more respectful

[superbowl9]

someone else besides superb (cuz i am not talking to them anymore) point to any real scum reads that superb has had? he's called for me and guillo's policy lim and then now a 'compromise' on pob long? lol why is this town again?

Yeah superb actually sorted in my last game with him and did at least okay at it. That’s why I asked if I am overrating his skill earlier.

Kind of hard to sort when all our interactions are lead by the 3 stooges

Rise above it. That’s what I try to do.

Nah I think I'm just gonna join the lurkers till we elim

[superbowl9]

BM I would hop on DT with you but it seems like they are widely townread there so I think wagoning is somewhat futile. Guillo is more likely to pick up steam from my perspective

My BRUH from before was to this
I literally combed Guillo mentions and found outside 3 people Guillo was not in anyone’s lim pool. This feels pretty silly, maybe superb’s scum PT turned into a bit of an echo chamber?

Exactly vs. the 2 who are willing to go DT....

[superbowl9]

the top 5 posters should post less please. youre spamming like crazy and saying dumb shit. most posts arent worth reading, its offputting to the rest of us, and youre making the signal/noise ratio really bad.

Welcome to the goddamn club
Pagetop btw

THIS IS @ YOU

Why would you RESPOND to that 8 million post mess of an interaction?? You're only contributing to this by reacting to it

[superbowl9]

CHUCKLIP

I refuse to say anything other than chucklip from now on

[superbowl9]

All aboard!

VOTE: Doubting Thomas

[superbowl9]

V/la until Tuesday

this is a scumclaim

True no townie would be interested in coming back to this game before D3

[superbowl9]

This is after starting a scumread on Gamma.

scumlean ftr

[superbowl9]

This is after starting a scumread on Gamma.

scumlean ftr

Also it's scaring me that he's inching closer and closer to my view on the game as we go on

[superbowl9]

Yes

[superbowl9]

DT is at L-2 btw

[superbowl9]

This is after starting a scumread on Gamma.

scumlean ftr

Also it's scaring me that he's inching closer and closer to my view on the game as we go on

I mean the fact I’m inching means it’s a genuine progression right?

Idk not sure what to make of it yet but its kind of off putting

[superbowl9]

Also why's it scaring you?

(Typed and deleted non game related stuff, y'all are tricky)

I thought gamma was either just wrong or scum purposely being wrong, but now that he's starting to be right I'm not sure if he's scum starting to pivot to the right position now that he's realizing he won't be able to ride the wave of DT/guillo or if he's just realizing how bad his stuff earlier was

[superbowl9]

Okay enough getting actual content out of me I'm trying to survive the night here

[superbowl9]

Hey hey its cool superbase just sit back and watch Gamma. You'll sort him. There's some arcane rule in the MS site rules, i just looked this up, that says Gamma lives today. Weird, I know, but gives you plenty of time to figure him out

Yeah I just looked it up it's rule 34. Maybe others can check it out too

[superbowl9]

Guys I checked my meta from 2012 offsite and actually in Thanksgiving Thrifting Hunt 15 I made this exact same play, it came from scum. Not sure how much clearer evidence you want

[superbowl9]

Guys I checked my meta from 2012 offsite and actually in Thanksgiving Thrifting Hunt 15 I made this exact same play, it came from scum. Not sure how much clearer evidence you want

Lollll
Might be the first time scum has legit tried to discredit my anecdotal meta

Gonna have to wait a little longer on that my friend

[superbowl9]

Well you are super wrong about me, i suggest you looking somewhere else. If you won't, then case me instead of just calling me scum. Or do you just expect people to take your word for it?

The reason she won’t do that is because she knows you will just take her points and “destroy them with facts and logic”. A lot of newer players want like a point by point case they can tear down to feel like they’ve won an argument or interaction, but you can literally technicality and overanalyze your way out of ANY point someone can bring up in this game.

It’s just not an efficient or fun way to play, so a lot of people use more broad terminology and clarify when necessary, and will debate more on the spirit of an argument rather than trying to think up arguments to prove themselves right. Why would anyone with that approach bother to give a nuanced explanation when they know the spirit of that message will not be relevant to the one responding? Yet you view it as “they have no argument! They must have backed off because they were scared of interaction!”

I know this because I used to be that player. I also know this post probably won’t convince you of what I’m saying. But if you’re looking for an explanation as to why I’ve “shaded” you and DT, this is it. Have fun destroying it with facts and logic

[superbowl9]

Why do you think i’m scummy ari? Talk to me

[superbowl9]

Spoiler:

Well you are super wrong about me, i suggest you looking somewhere else. If you won't, then case me instead of just calling me scum. Or do you just expect people to take your word for it?

The reason she won’t do that is because she knows you will just take her points and “destroy them with facts and logic”. A lot of newer players want like a point by point case they can tear down to feel like they’ve won an argument or interaction, but you can literally technicality and overanalyze your way out of ANY point someone can bring up in this game.

It’s just not an efficient or fun way to play, so a lot of people use more broad terminology and clarify when necessary, and will debate more on the spirit of an argument rather than trying to think up arguments to prove themselves right. Why would anyone with that approach bother to give a nuanced explanation when they know the spirit of that message will not be relevant to the one responding? Yet you view it as “they have no argument! They must have backed off because they were scared of interaction!”

I know this because I used to be that player. I also know this post probably won’t convince you of what I’m saying. But if you’re looking for an explanation as to why I’ve “shaded” you and DT, this is it. Have fun destroying it with facts and logic

What do you know about the reason she will not do it, did she tell you in chat? Why is Taylor ok with this guy answering for her?

So you are saying that if someone accuses me of scum, I shouldnt try to debunk their theory to prove that I'm not? And instead what? Let the accuser lead a wagon to miseliminate me?
When you said that i can “literally overanalyze my way out of any point someone can bring up in this game”, what did you mean? Can you show me examples where i've done this?

These are all legit non rhetorical questions.

It could be that taylor completely disagrees with everything I said (although I suspect she doesn’t) I just saw it as a good opportunity to hijack and explain myself a little

Your reply is exactly what I mean, I can give you examples but will you just “debunk” them? What’s the point? It will take a lot of effort from me to paint you a picture of what I’m talking about but why would I do that when there’s a good chance you’re not going to be looking at it to understand, but looking at it to “debunk”? <-that’s your example right there

[superbowl9]

If you think I’m an elitist preaching down to you idrc, I’m trying to explain to you why I’ve said what I’ve said. I’m not going to get into an argument with you about this but yes, I do view you as a threat to my chances at catching scum this game which is why I’m fine elimming you even if I don’t have a great read on your alignment. I would say this if you were acting the same way regardless of your experience level, but like I said I used to play that way and know it to come from newer players more often.

[superbowl9]

That is why I say that your are at elitist arrogant town player or (add to that a selfish one too), because you are willing to yeet another town regardless of him being a PR or not, just because he is a threat to YOUR chances at catching scum. This is a team deduction and cooperation game

Why would I not want a player gone that hurts my wincon? I've made my position known and if the majority don't agree then you won't get eliminated. Let's compromise, who do you think we can work together to elim? You've been pushing me most of the game so I don't know why you expect me to work with you on that...

[superbowl9]

Why is Taylor ok with this guy answering for her?

so first superbowl speaks for me and then you jump on it and put words in my mouth and say im fine with that. superbowl is scummy for answering the question directed at me, despite the answer being correct. you are scummy for trying to paint it like im partnered with superbowl.

sup er bow l/guillo team

Ima let you finish but Beyonce had one of the best music videos of ALL TIME

[superbowl9]

i hope im already doing this but VOTE: super bowel

My next avi change is gonna be the shit

[superbowl9]

Spoiler:

That is why I say that your are at elitist arrogant town player or (add to that a selfish one too), because you are willing to yeet another town regardless of him being a PR or not, just because he is a threat to YOUR chances at catching scum. This is a team deduction and cooperation game

Why would I not want a player gone that hurts my wincon? I've made my position known and if the majority don't agree then you won't get eliminated. Let's compromise, who do you think we can work together to elim? You've been pushing me most of the game so I don't know why you expect me to work with you on that...

Are you willing to keep an open mind? Forget that I'm a noob and an outsider.

If you townread me, that should be enough to keep me if you are town. I pushed you yes and hard! But now I think you are not necessarily the mafia faction. I still suspect that you could be the third party, as such faction is ok with getting anyone yeeted (you have displayed that tendency) or the arrogant selfish town player who only thinks about his game experience.

I hate arrogant people but in mafia that could just be an act.

I remember the second game i Played in MU, I was LHF in that game. There was this guy with a huge ego and an arrogant vile attitude and I hated him, I thought it was real. When the game ended he publicly apologized for LHFing me and he's been giving me hints about how to play and stuff. I still got a long way to go but I'm better than back then.
So this you, as much as I hate it could be just be a made up persona or it could be real, but that does not change the fact that there is a chance that you could still be town, but I need to see town leaning interactions and decisions from you.

People I won't yeet on D1: BM, DoubtingThomas, Cat and Chaos

How about you?

Let's compromise,

who do you think we can work together to elim?

[superbowl9]

this post pings though. why are you working to elim people rather than catch scum?

You’ve never compromised to elim someone who maybe is lurking and you have a nullread on? I think ppl this game think you elim if and only if scumread, that’s just not how I play. Sure I will push a strong scumread more but things need to get done

[superbowl9]

Your goalposts just moved, but as you can see i don’t work with guillo the same way i work with you or bm for example

[superbowl9]

@Ari I can give you what my thought process was post by post, but i think in general my question for those who think I am simply content with any mislim is

doesn’t this seems like a pretty poor way to achieve that goal

? If you really think I’m only interested in setting up elims and not sorting here, why am I aggroing the top 3 posters and pushing for clearly unpopular policies?
It seems to me that scum is either one of DT/Guillo/Gamma and a lurker or a team like 2 of ari/catboi/chk and town is going to get BTFO. Hence why I want to survive until later in the game and why my interest lies in breaking up what i view as a harmful townblock which is already fmpov sending through one mislim today.

[superbowl9]

BTFO

???

Blown the fuck out, like destroyed basically

[superbowl9]

Gotcha! I've never heard that in any form until now lol

As a response to your actual post there, I have 2 answers I suppose.

First, I don't think you are okay with "any miselim" but your push for "anyone but me" (which is what "just let me survive to D2" means) is meh and your personal survival should not trump town's survival. This can very easily be scummy, and if it is not, I think you need to reevaluate your gameplay a bit. Because I mean, everyone wants to live another day. Play in a way that makes us want to have you around another day.

Second, despite DT calling a townblock, I think those things are very dangerous and am willing to reevaluate a read on any one of the people supposedly in it. Townblocks are notoriously easy to infiltrate and I don't put a lot of stock into them unless they provide solid results reliably. I don't think you have to worry as much there.

I guess there's a third thing which is you going against the grain a bit. And I guess that's a valid argument as less likely to come from scum. But I'm not sold and it alone isn't enough to change my read.

Yep, I'll give you a response to your case later tonight, just some food for thought. And I think the "anyone but me" thing is a bit of a misconception here, I'm only focusing on people I want to eliminate, so of course you haven't heard much about my townreads. I've shown resistance to what would have been an easy chaos wagon to hop onto, disagreed with johnny's Tswift scumread (idk if that was in thread or in my head), townread BM, etc. etc. Imo I have not had more targets this game than say Gamma, it's just more obvious because I'm targeting controversial slots. I've only advocated for the group of 3 and a pob long compromise.

[superbowl9]

Spoiler: Pre-1290 Analysis

Also why's it scaring you?

(Typed and deleted non game related stuff, y'all are tricky)

I thought gamma was either just wrong or scum purposely being wrong, but now that he's starting to be right I'm not sure if he's scum starting to pivot to the right position now that he's realizing he won't be able to ride the wave of DT/guillo or if he's just realizing how bad his stuff earlier was

This is shade on a fairly townread player and doing that this early in the game is a good way to sow the seeds of doubt for a miselim later on. It feels like you're not trying to sort him, just dropping a subtle diss for later.

I think this was one of my posts that actually shows sorting more than others. I make an actual substantive point here which is that Gamma moving towards my reads (which he continues to do) is unexpected. I'm trying to evaluate how that fits in with my current read on him, which I explain in the post. Not sure where you saw a driveby shade you're characterizing, as I'm actually almost moving away from my SL there? Also not sure where this "widely townread" thing came from, gamma has drawn quite a bit of fos this game.

Okay enough getting actual content out of me I'm trying to survive the night here

This is just disgusting. That's not how anyone should play, and in a game with a 3p and hidden NK flips, this (fake?) townslip isn't even towny.
Getting info and discussion is town's main power, and you are choosing not to use it such that you survive. Honestly not a fan at all.

Yes this strategy is gambit-y but my plan was to challenge (or even break if possible) the guillo/DT/gamma grip over the game while paying attention to how the less active players act so that tomorrow I can make my pushes of them actually effective. Look at it as almost a pocket scum to get their guard down, then give them a push when it will actually work because DT isn't clogging the thread with rants. I think you can tell by my lighthearted tone here that I know I'm doing something unconventional and not taking it too serious, because at the end of the day I still have to play D1 to some extent. If I was actually going all in on this I'd be playing like pob long.

Guys I checked my meta from 2012 offsite and actually in Thanksgiving Thrifting Hunt 15 I made this exact same play, it came from scum. Not sure how much clearer evidence you want

This is such a fucking weird clapback to Gamma and I do not see the point of it. Discrediting Meta just makesthe meta more believable. Like pointing out why it might be wrong "that game was different because {setup, size, mental state, etc} is one thing but this is just...like the reaction to gaining a vote here is scummy and it made my raise an eyebrow at your slot.

I think people are thinking this was meant to be a direct response or "debunk" to Gamma's meta point on me. I've always thought meta arguments were laughable, so whenever I see them being used a lot (like gamma has done this game) I will poke a jab at them, understanding that most don't really have an issue with their use. Since I view these points as largely irrelevant, I think my mocking response was appropriate. I can get into a discussion of why I've always thought meta arguments were terrible but that discussion has already happened too many times to count on this site, and if the point was strong I would have actually responded seriously.

Well you are super wrong about me, i suggest you looking somewhere else. If you won't, then case me instead of just calling me scum. Or do you just expect people to take your word for it?

The reason she won’t do that is because she knows you will just take her points and “destroy them with facts and logic”. A lot of newer players want like a point by point case they can tear down to feel like they’ve won an argument or interaction, but you can literally technicality and overanalyze your way out of ANY point someone can bring up in this game.

It’s just not an efficient or fun way to play, so a lot of people use more broad terminology and clarify when necessary, and will debate more on the spirit of an argument rather than trying to think up arguments to prove themselves right. Why would anyone with that approach bother to give a nuanced explanation when they know the spirit of that message will not be relevant to the one responding? Yet you view it as “they have no argument! They must have backed off because they were scared of interaction!”

I know this because I used to be that player. I also know this post probably won’t convince you of what I’m saying. But if you’re looking for an explanation as to why I’ve “shaded” you and DT, this is it. Have fun destroying it with facts and logic

Answering for someone else sucks dude. I also noted your stepping in in defense of TayTay here as possible buddy interactions.

Like I said I don't pretend to speak for Taylor, I probably could have clarified more when I wrote the post that I was hijacking this question to make my own larger point to Guillo about game health because it seemed like a great opportunity to address it. If you read my post and the followup to it you'll see that it's not a defense of Taylor, it's a critique of Guillo. Would also like to mention that this would be such smoothbrained buddy play that it almost removes any partner equity that Taylor and I could have. I'm sad you think my scumgame would be this obvious

Spoiler: Post-1290 Analysis

What do you know about the reason she will not do it, did she tell you in chat? Why is Taylor ok with this guy answering for her?

So you are saying that if someone accuses me of scum, I shouldnt try to debunk their theory to prove that I'm not? And instead what? Let the accuser lead a wagon to miseliminate me?
When you said that i can “literally overanalyze my way out of any point someone can bring up in this game”, what did you mean? Can you show me examples where i've done this?

These are all legit non rhetorical questions.

It could be that taylor completely disagrees with everything I said (although I suspect she doesn’t) I just saw it as a good opportunity to hijack and explain myself a little

Your reply is exactly what I mean, I can give you examples but will you just “debunk” them? What’s the point? It will take a lot of effort from me to paint you a picture of what I’m talking about but why would I do that when there’s a good chance you’re not going to be looking at it to understand, but looking at it to “debunk”? <-that’s your example right there

*NOTE: Nestled spoiler eliminated by myself as they break posts and whatnot*

See, you didn not answer multiple questions here, including ones related simply to how Taylor may react to you commenting for them, and instead criticized Guillotina for playing the game. The point is to debate and discuss things. I'm not saying you have to search for examples but you should have something in mind if you brought up the points, right?
Telling Guillotina you are refusing to engage them because they will analyze your points and poke holes where they see them is bad, weak, and potentially scummy play. Instead, why not engage them, poke holes in the holes they've pokes, and prove your points that way? Or is it because you're worried you won't have a rebuttle and will be outed as scum?
Like, even if you aren't going toconvince Guillotina on things, perhaps you can sway the rest of the town to believe you in things. If it's not worth your effort that's probably because you don't really have anything of value to say imo.

I think you're missing my point here as well, because if you got it you'd see that going point by point through Guillo's arguments is exactly what I'm saying is bad for game health. Someone like BM can argue tit for tat with DT for 10 pages not dropping a point, and it works for him (more power to ya brother! ). I don't give a fuck whether I'm "right" or get a point for winning an argument. I could easily have gone on for pages with Guillo or DT at any point in this game but I don't think that's good for game health. This is the point I'm making to Guillo - I'm not going to waste my time in the endless "well technically I'm right because..." circle because it's not as productive as just addressing what needs to be addressed, even if that results in what seems like someone has "scored a hit" on me. You feed into this very mentality by asking if I'm somehow scared that my logic won't hold up. We're not going to get anything done if we just bicker about minor points that if you take a step back are honestly meaningless. It's about engaging honestly with ideas that you think are important vs. debatelording so you can feed your own ego. If you think there's an important point in that post that I didn't address then please point it out for me, otherwise you're simply missing the whole point of my post.

If you think I’m an elitist preaching down to you idrc

, I’m trying to explain to you why I’ve said what I’ve said. I’m not going to get into an argument with you about this but yes,

I do view you as a threat to my chances at catching scum this game which is why I’m fine elimming you even if I don’t have a great read on your alignment.

I would say this if you were acting the same way regardless of your experience level, but like I said I used to play that way and know it to come from newer players more often.

The underlined is a huge eww with an eyeroll
The bolded is just a PL and if one of your best moves after what's probably 50 pages by now is a PL I have to wonder if you are even trying. That shouldn't be viable still.
It once again seems like you are slating them for an easy Elim later in the game, as you are with Gamma.

Someone else commented on that first part, but I genuinely don't care what you think of me, I'm more interested in catching scum. That's my point with the earlier post, I don't care if you think I've been "owned" because I didn't respond to an insult either, I'm more concerned with not dragging our game quality down any further than it already has been lowered.
I already explained my strategy with trying to break up those 3 so we can get valuable pushes in later (which is pointless if I'm not alive tomorrow, hence that strategy), but I want to re-empasize one thing here.

Is this really how you think I set up miselims?

What type of absolute buffoon would I have to be to think this is a sly way to chain elim?? It's kind of insulting that you think this low of my ability.

That is why I say that your are at elitist arrogant town player or (add to that a selfish one too), because you are willing to yeet another town regardless of him being a PR or not, just because he is a threat to YOUR chances at catching scum. This is a team deduction and cooperation game

Why would I not want a player gone that hurts my wincon? I've made my position known and if the majority don't agree then you won't get eliminated. Let's compromise, who do you think we can work together to elim? You've been pushing me most of the game so I don't know why you expect me to work with you on that...

Once again, preshading and colouring the answer before it is made. Classic.

I would like to claim my "Told you so" points now because he actually did respond to this with me as his answer in 1342 But seriously, not sure what your problem is with this? It's meant to show him that the reason we're not working together and cooperating as he suggests is because we disagree and want to elim each other - that's why I know what his answer will be. If he actually something for us to cooperate on I'm happy to do it, I'm not just being a dick. I'm not going to work with him to self-elim though

One more point about the point-by-point thing I'm against in that whole guillo interaction, I'm obviously not against using a "facts and logic" approach or addressing something point by point, I just did it here. There's a time and place for it though, and if that's your approach to every game interaction you're not trying to honestly have a conversation or honestly evaluate things, you're just boosting your ego by being "right". So I don't wanna hear "bUt SuPeRbOwL!! YOU SAID DONT DEBATELORD" from anyone except taylor after this

[superbowl9]

My issue is I still don't understand why your emphasis is on breaking up a group of players vs actually finding scum. You have all this concern over the DT/Guillo/Gamma group but the only points you raise against them are being problematic later in the game, not actually being suspect. I don't understand why that's your fixation like it's going to be some game dominating force when there's a decent chance some of them just die.

My question to you is sure this may not be conventional but

how does this lead to the conclusion of me being scum?

Is it my way of setting up a chain policy elim because in what world does that EVER work? My goal is to elim one of the three so that we don’t have a loud townblock doing all of scum’s heavy lifting for them (why would scum EVER kill this??? And based off my read vigi will not be doing so either.)
In my mind the longer I ignore them and try to push elsewhere, the more influence they will gain as town grows smaller. That being said I’m down to go elsewhere if this approach isn’t popular, I’m not unreasonable. However apparently that’s viewed as target switching as well - now I’m “willing to elim the whole PL”. Either way people will find a reason to scumread me. I think my unconventional play has pinged people and they just slap a scum label on it but I’ve yet to hear an answer as to why my outlined strategy would be beneficial to employ as scum

[superbowl9]

Oh yeah one other thing that got deleted from my first version of my post cause mobile -.-

I’ve given my scumcall if you ISO me, and I think one of those three has a chance to be scum, it’s not like I’m policying them as I have strong TRs on all 3. I just think it’s the best way to actually catch scum, because we won’t be having to work against these 3 votes/voices, whether they’re coming from town or scum.

And STILL the argument here is that I’m playing unconventionally.

how is this leading to the conclusion of me being scum

? Aren’t you doing exactly what you’re critiquing me of? “You’re not doing what I like so take my vote”?

[superbowl9]

1348 btw cause i hate when people make me dig through their isos

[superbowl9]

Lolwolves for pushing Ari's yeet because he was V/LA

Gonna lurk now so i can help tmrw lmk who we mislim

This here. I dont know if he is aware of the mistake here. “lmk who we

mislim

”.

mislim means wrong elimination lol

Nope I was aware

[superbowl9]

Since there's intent I'm VT. I still have some stuff left to say to ari but you can hammer if you like

[superbowl9]

Drafting up the post, but its long so it will take me a bit. Also I have a midterm at 1:50 I havent studied for so after I post this I will be gone for about an hour

[superbowl9]

You want to break up a "townblock" because you worry about their competence, not because you think they are scum.

So why are Guillotine, DT, and Gamma your top scumreads?

We're doing the exact same thing at this point that I'm telling guillo is bad to do, which is get caught up in details rather than analyzing the full picture of what's going on. I believe you saw things that pinged you as abnormal and found your way to how they were scummy from there, but it doesn't paint a coherent or likely picture of my behavior.

Here's what I'm telling you happened:

Superbowl came into D1 trying to scumhunt, but immediately the thread quality started devolving. He saw that in this gamestate, competent scum would get a free pass to sit back and let town destroy itself. To stop this outcome, he decided to try and elim within those running the town into the ground, then pivot to those who were sitting back and taking advantage of the mess tomorrow.

You can pick off bits and pieces of that story and spin them as scummy, like here:

You keep asking about agenda and reason for doing it. What is your master plan. Etc. It looks to me like you want to live through D1 and also eliminate a towny. That's scummy enough as a motivation.

But I think if you step back and put all these pieces of "scumminess" you've got into one theory or timeline you'll see that it would make no sense for scum me to act in such a way. When I ask you what my overarching motivation is, the question is not "find me a way in which this action could be scum motivated", it's what do you think is the likely, sensible motivation behind my actions in context. Any week 1 player can find scum or town motivation in any game action.

Your push on me right now, for example - let's use your own words:

It looks to me like you want to live through D1 and also eliminate a towny. That's scummy enough as a motivation.

Could that explanation be valid? Sure. That's not the question we're asking here though. Does this motivation make sense given the context of your play and the game so far? Clearly it doesn't, and (I hope) everyone in the game right now could tell you that. That's what I mean by getting caught up in "well technically it's a possibility so I'm right!", you lose sight of the greater context to try and focus on "winning" one point. Take your argument above and put it back in the larger context of my play:

Gonna lurk now so i can help tmrw lmk who we mislim

Nah I think I'm just gonna join the lurkers till we elim

According to your theory, why would I post my exact scum strat in main thread instead of just doing it? Inevitably here you will fall back on WIFOM, that I made these posts because I knew they were the very posts scum would not usually make in that scenario, so I could point them out later as evidence. But you're back into the same confirmation bias pattern - "I think you're scum, and your strategy is simply pursuing an easy mislim and surviving till tomorrow" When presented evidence to the contrary, "well it could be WIFOM". I had no chance of convincing you I'm not scum, because you're not openly considering what's likely anymore, you're just finding ways to preserve your initial theory. Whenever you reach the "well it could be WIFOM" stage, it tells me your arguments ran into a contradictiom so you had to flip things around to make it work again.

Another example of you doing this:

1. The Taylor scumbuddy read.
Sure, it's not high play. We don't all make high play moves. And I'm simply noting it. If you flip town it goes out the window obviously. But it would be negligent of me to not note it

Is it possible I saw my scum buddy being attacked and just made a bad instinctive play to defend her inderectly? Sure. Is that likely what happened? Put yourself in scum's shoes there and ask yourself how many times out of 100 you think you would follow up on your buddy getting attacked like that, at that point in context of the game. We can analyze every single person-person interaction in the thread as a "possible" buddy indicator, but the useful thing to do is to look at interactions you think are LIKELY buddy indicators. You're clearly starting with your conclusion here and working backwards to fill in the evidence.

That's why at the end of the day me pulling out some checkmate logic that you seem to want to prove myself town will never happen and it's a waste of both of our times to pursue that. You need a theory on my behavior being scummy that makes more sense (has more explanatory power) than my alternative from a town perspective, which you have failed to offer. Simply trying to poke holes is no different from what a flat earther does to the globe theory. You're going to argue, "exactly! So you just explain to the flat earthers the facts as to why they're wrong, poke holes in their holes!". But there's an infinite number of holes to poke, and no one will ever be satisified, because at the end of the day

they don't have to do any of the explaining.

When you tell them how gravity actually works, they can say "nahhh, not convincing. I think it's actually electromagnetic forces, can you disprove that?" Same as you ending up in WIFOM world. Go back and look at my interactions with my explanations for my actions in mind, can you honestly say your mishmosh of scum motivations is a better explanatory theory of what was going through my head than what I've got in italics at the top?

[superbowl9]

TRULY SORRY for the wall, but the point I'm trying to make is too complex for my feeble mind to put succinctly and truth is I didn't even get to address all of what Ari posted, I'll make another posts on the reads he asked me about if I'm still alive later. Time to go fail my midterm

[superbowl9]

(I'm still reading the first one here but I wanted to wish you well on the test)

Thanks I survived!

[superbowl9]

I'd be lying if I said I felt good about this vote anymore but I'm not voting thomas. Might join a flashwagon elsewhere if one cropped up.

Would you go for a pob compromise?

[superbowl9]

Yeah just get me out this game tbh, im not a PR so its not a big deal anyways. Don’t think I will be able to work with this town

[superbowl9]

Self-hammering isnt considered rulebreaking as town, just poor form right?

[superbowl9]

Okay peace then VOTE: superbowl9

[superbowl9]

Also every statement that's not devoid of feelings is not ATE guys

[superbowl9]

Nah an appeal to emotion means you must be trying to use an emotional argument to convince someone. When Ari said I ATEd him, my aim was not to make him say "wow yes I do feel bad for underestimating super's scumgame, time to flip my read around!", or when I say time to self hammer I'm not trying to convince anyone to do anything, just saying what my feeling on the situation is.

[superbowl9]

Ggs, no hard feelings ari! Scum played well imo