Open 816: C9++ || Game Over

[xHeavenx]

Heellooo

VOTE: Umlaut

[xHeavenx]

VOTE: tigerente

Heaven, are you an alt?

- lilith (aka... Smarter)

Yeesh what's with the personal question? No comment...

[xHeavenx]

Ehehehe no problem penguin officer

[xHeavenx]

Aww Datisi why make such a bold trying-to-end-RVS vote?

[xHeavenx]

Yeah but it's really selfish you know? I think RVS has it's usage and I don't know why you couldn't have waited

[xHeavenx]

Is that really an uncommon opinion here? I personally think it's better to let mostly everyone post before getting serious.

[xHeavenx]

Yeah but it's really selfish you know? I think RVS has it's usage and I don't know why you couldn't have waited

i have a feeling this is a troll, but in case it's not:

(1) what (2) nothing waa forcing you to act upon my vote? you easily could've kept rvsing?

Both you and me gain nothing if I "pretend" to just keep RVSing though. You were the one to somehow get a beat on my alignment based on two posts yknow

[xHeavenx]

Precedence was already established by that point when it came to your vote. It's a situation that you can't really go back from or just can't look. You yourself should be presently aware given that you already agreed that it wasn't RVS in #24

[xHeavenx]

Ehh?

Would you want me to ignore your vote though? I responded out of commonplace. If someone naked votes me in RVS my reaction would be all the same. What did you expect to get if I didn't respond?

[xHeavenx]

Mmmm ok. This probably wasn't what you favored but I feel I got some useful stuff out of it

[xHeavenx]

Have you never caught scum because of behavior shown during RVS?

Sure I have, but I've caught them because of behavior shown during every other phase of the game as well. There's nothing special about RVS in that regard.

I disagree, but this miight not be place to talk about it

Spoiler: If it is the place to talk about it, read further

RVS is a blank slate for everyone, that includes scum. Tonally speaking, it's all about early impressions. In my own biased opinion, I think scum are more loose in RVS meaning they're more prone to mistakes. There will never be definitive outside of that, but it demonstrates how players may act in the game. Or at least it should in theory.

Heaven vs Datisi on page too makes me feel ... uneasy. I can't tell if it's scummy or fluffy, and I can't even pinpoint what makes me feel that way about it!

So when it comes to what happened between me and Datisi, It seemed quite meh to me as well. Datisi says I could've just ignored him but I only assumed his best interest. I really feel like he could've just kept his vote on me and surveyed the room a bit more, but instead he just backed off. What do you think about this?

[xHeavenx]

Why is he hard to read to you? Is it because of your own accuracy in doing so or something else?

[xHeavenx]

xheavenx feels like ~stilted~ but i'm not sure that makes them scum. i actually kinda think they might be town? idk

The first part breaks my poor little heart, but the second makes me feel better <3

In my homesite I'm known to a bit of a pushy person and lucky me you're not all acquainted enough to get annoyed by it

[xHeavenx]

@heaven
basically you feel like ~out of tune~ with this site's meta but i think that can just make you a new player and/or used to a different playing style
it's different and somewhat prickly but having a different pov on rvs doesn't make you scum

pedit @gamma idk what you mean / are trying to say

~ skitter

Your thoughtfulness here feels good to me. Maybe I'm reading that too early but I've been holding onto something else. Would it be bad practice here to think Cakez is scummy for his vote on me? I'm aware of how OMGUS works, but following his vote all he did was plead to the cleared townie to solve the game for them. It was just so pointless

[xHeavenx]

Soo I'm just the odd person out then right? Are you all familiar with another? I got that impression when Almost50 responded to me about how he couldn't read Datisi.

[xHeavenx]

I'm not new to the game but yes I am new to the site. It's nice to meet you all

[xHeavenx]

considering that you described it as "meh", what do you think about that? or rather, what does "meh" mean.

I just found um the way you handled your own suspicions to be a bit incomplete. I know it's early but the idea that you can't have strong feelings about something is wrong. If I pinged you tonally then I pinged you tonally. I really expected you to get further about that, but you didn't. Your reasons after the fact fall back onto your own habits as explained how you believe you're obvtown when you're obvtown. My own thoughts is that you're null and I think self-aware players are the most dangerous type, so I can't really accept you being town until I see it.

[xHeavenx]

I feel like half of the posts I'm reading so far are heavily influenced by meta on the other players and it's making me feel left out.

[xHeavenx]

considering that you described it as "meh", what do you think about that? or rather, what does "meh" mean.

I just found um the way you handled your own suspicions to be a bit incomplete. I know it's early but the idea that you can't have strong feelings about something is wrong. If I pinged you tonally then I pinged you tonally. I really expected you to get further about that, but you didn't. Your reasons after the fact fall back onto your own habits as explained how you believe you're obvtown when you're obvtown. My own thoughts is that you're null and I think self-aware players are the most dangerous type, so I can't really accept you being town until I see it.

i'm not saying one cannot have strong feelings this early - i've had strong (correct) feelings on people's alignments on page 1 before. (before someone cries how this contradicts my 173 - it doesn't. i deemed what lilith reacted to to not be enough to get a strong feeling. you may call me egocentric if you wish.) you pinged me tonally, yes, but i don't think you understand the strength of that ping - it was not that strong. by the time i changed my vote away from you onto dwlee, i was satisfied with what you posted. i got what i wanted, i moved on. why would you *expect* me to go further about that?

Mmmmm

I like talking things out I guess. Even if someone scumreads me or finds something I did something, I learn a lot more with direct conversation. It's especially harder here too because I am just as much of a stranger to you all, so I have to be reliant on situations like this. I really am just getting next to nothing from these last few pages and I do want to help.

[xHeavenx]

Something I did wrong*

I don't why I repeated myself there, I need to readjust my glasses :I

[xHeavenx]

@heaven what’s your opinion on cakes voting you and our current discussion of whether it is scummy for me to be pushing cakes for it?

- lilith

Your own reasoning is fine but mine slightly differs. I don't like what cakez is doing because it's awkward. I said pointless earlier and then his response to that was that he was making a joke. Jokes usually require a bit of knowledge or even a setup but there I think he was just excusing himself. His words come out only at the concern of others and even then I just don't really believe him.

[xHeavenx]

if you feel like you learn a lot more with direct conversation, why didn't you ask me about my moving vote?

Do you prefer being left alone or do you like the same things I do? When it comes to um..direct conversation. The feedback I got from our conversation earlier is like I said that maybe how I responded wasn't what you preferred. You wanted to keep yourself a bit ambiguous to see how others would respond, and in that moment we just didn't agree.

[xHeavenx]

a different q: why do you care about what i prefer? you said you don't townread me. i could be scum for all you know. why do you care about what i want or don't want, as opposed to doing the things that would help *you* get the best reads you can get?

It's my only way of breaking through the meta arguments going on around me ehehe

[xHeavenx]

gypyx solve the game for me

Heaven claiming that this post was not a joke and I'm just making excuses now is batshit ridiculous

For your own sake I want you to quote where I said this. If you can't then it's not true and that makes me wonder why you're saying it anyways.

[xHeavenx]

I feel like half of the posts I'm reading so far are heavily influenced by meta on the other players and it's making me feel left out.

Do you have any thoughts of your own?

Not too much I'd be willing to commit to but I'll try my best. Limit is the one person I think is just town. A lot of the other people I'm not getting a sense of who they are, rather what they claim. The decisive arguments I want to see instead turn into what seems like bickering mostly.

I think Limit trying to persuade others with their own experience with cakez is the most townie thing in the game so far. Their words really jumped out at me, and it didn't seem like they were just showboating. It was an attempt to understand but also generate reads, which is what I tend to look for.

[xHeavenx]

R u trying to read us?

~ skitteR

Yes if this is towards me. What do you think of Datisi so far? A50?

[xHeavenx]

VOTE: A50

His posts seem so in-between everything going on, like he's almost trying to not take a side and wait for options to open up.

[xHeavenx]

Q: Am I allowed to live in my own world under my own dome for a few seconds?? Cuz if I was I'd bet the game on the Mafia being of 3 members, and my solve would be precisely Gamma/Kerset/Heaven

Gamma comes in pushing a very "strange" meta-driven case on me (forgive me for calling it a case), and Kerset hops on it. Gamma backs off, Kerset falls back into the shadows, and Heaven takes on the spearhead position with yet another inexplicable "case".

My point is SCUM!GAMMA would be afraid of me. He tries to push me in hopes I'd react in a way that could be taken advantage of. Kerset sneaks in to aid him (knowing the reason behind this behaviour from their PT), but since I didn't react in a way that would justify Gamma's push on me he walks it back, but still wants me out so Heaven now can lead the campaign under the guise they don't know me (or anyone else) so cannot be blamed for taking this stance.

Well, I've got news for you: I ain't going down today, so lay off and try another approach.

Now I can go out of my dome and realize the whole world doesn't actually revolve around me, but not before I posted this to refer to in post-game.

Remember when you said earlier how you didn't know how to respond to me? I feel the same way right now. This is such a rabbit hole that I almost want to take my vote off you, because it really is just that ridiculous to me. So much that you wouldn't get clearance or risk saying it as scum.

[xHeavenx]

I feel like half of the posts I'm reading so far are heavily influenced by meta on the other players and it's making me feel left out.

Do you have any thoughts of your own?

Not too much I'd be willing to commit to but I'll try my best. Limit is the one person I think is just town. A lot of the other people I'm not getting a sense of who they are, rather what they claim. The decisive arguments I want to see instead turn into what seems like bickering mostly.

I think Limit trying to persuade others with their own experience with cakez is the most townie thing in the game so far. Their words really jumped out at me, and it didn't seem like they were just showboating. It was an attempt to understand but also generate reads, which is what I tend to look for.

Are you generally an analytical person?

I think therefore I am?

[xHeavenx]

Almost50's posts almost make too much sense that he might be evil lol

It doesn't make sense at all and that's why I'm questioning myself here.

[xHeavenx]

I feel like half of the posts I'm reading so far are heavily influenced by meta on the other players and it's making me feel left out.

Do you have any thoughts of your own?

Not too much I'd be willing to commit to but I'll try my best. Limit is the one person I think is just town. A lot of the other people I'm not getting a sense of who they are, rather what they claim. The decisive arguments I want to see instead turn into what seems like bickering mostly.

I think Limit trying to persuade others with their own experience with cakez is the most townie thing in the game so far. Their words really jumped out at me, and it didn't seem like they were just showboating. It was an attempt to understand but also generate reads, which is what I tend to look for.

Are you generally an analytical person?

I think therefore I am?

Is that a serious answer?
Depending on whether the answer is yes or no to the original question, it will affect how I read you.

It's a serious answer. I can't tell you the reason for why my thoughts come out this way, they just do.

[xHeavenx]

VOTE: Cakez

Maybe I'll come back to A50 but what he's saying weirded me out so much that I don't feel comfortable pushing him.

[xHeavenx]

ss and i both think you’re town

While it's not my place I contest this a little. I wouldn't be the one to call for Datisi's head here, but a lot of their posts to me are too careful? There's just a degree of skepticism found in himself, and it makes sorting through a bit more tricky. I've been thinking about whether this is intentional on his part or not.

[xHeavenx]

@heaven what’s your opinion on cakes voting you and our current discussion of whether it is scummy for me to be pushing cakes for it?

- lilith

Your own reasoning is fine but mine slightly differs. I don't like what cakez is doing because it's awkward. I said pointless earlier and then his response to that was that he was making a joke. Jokes usually require a bit of knowledge or even a setup but there I think he was just excusing himself. His words come out only at the concern of others and even then I just don't really believe him.

This is where Heaven implies i was not joking earlier

The only thing implied there is that even if you were joking, it's still an excuse.

[xHeavenx]

@heaven what’s your opinion on cakes voting you and our current discussion of whether it is scummy for me to be pushing cakes for it?

- lilith

Your own reasoning is fine but mine slightly differs. I don't like what cakez is doing because it's awkward. I said pointless earlier and then his response to that was that he was making a joke. Jokes usually require a bit of knowledge or even a setup but there I think he was just excusing himself. His words come out only at the concern of others and even then I just don't really believe him.

This is where Heaven implies i was not joking earlier

The only thing implied there is that even if you were joking, it's still an excuse.

An excuse for what?

I don't think I can make it any more literal than I could just now. I didn't vote you because it's not implied if I scumread someone that a vote should immediately follow, you're one person out of twelve yknow? Catch yourself up first because I want to see other things besides this quarrel with me.

[xHeavenx]

I wouldn't be the one to call for Datisi's head here, but a lot of their posts to me are too careful? There's just a degree of skepticism found in himself, and it makes sorting through a bit more tricky. I've been thinking about whether this is intentional on his part or not.

why do you feel that my skepticism makes sorting me trickier?

also, i could probably pull up some quotes from my previous town games, if you'd want to see precedent of it.

I think it's easier I guess for scum to hmm everything. The lack of thought can sometimes be translated with indecision, which is a good thing to do is you're scum if you're worried about saying too much. It could be close to why I didn't like A50 earlier, but you're likely different people.

[xHeavenx]

Datisi, can I see a scumgame of yours?

[xHeavenx]

i wasn't sus of lilith anymore at that point. *however* i don't really think cakez is scum right now either, my "cakez/umlaut/kerset" solve is a solve if this game is on easy mode - since apparently half the game thinks cakez is scum, and kerset and umlaut are like. doing absolutely nothing. however i don't really think this is the solve because i'd expect scum!laut to either be bussing or be doing *something*.

I like your observation here. I'll try not to get too sidetracked but I also want to say I looked at your scumgame and I don't think the tone matches. I think from the posts you've made so far you're a very well-rounded player however, so I would put you more into a leantown just by comparison.

So that being said, I'm with you on Cakez/Kerset/Umlaut being too easy. I don't know if Kerset/Umluat in this hypothetical just leave Cakez out to dry. There's equity to be found in even voting there, given it's the most popular wagon. It could be a situation where scum ignore their partner and believe town could change their mind. Not implausible but not really practical, because scum usually just want to follow the trend anyways. If Cakez is scum then it's nothing but good if they at least talk about it, but instead Umluat/Kerset are nowhere near relevancy. If I had to gander I'd probably say one scum between those three.

[xHeavenx]

Not implausible but not really practical, because scum usually just want to follow the trend anyways.

How ironic thing to say as person, who settled down on common agreement.

I voiced my concern with cakez very early on, I just didn't vote them. I want to hope whatever you're doing leads up to something.

[xHeavenx]

Recent output from many sources are just not very interesting to me. Cakez still has the most scummy behavior in my opinion, unless the meta people want to exclaim otherwise. I think this conversation between Kerset+Dwlee is just circular logic as well.

[xHeavenx]

Another thing to be honest is that I feel like nobody cares for my opinion anyways, so I just haven't been giving them.

[xHeavenx]

Let me see then?

- As I said previously, I think Dwlee v. Kerset is very circular logic. I think Dwlee is pushing the issue too hard in a lot of ways actually, but the whole conversation is self-fulfilling for both of them. Could this be because they are partners, or they both just really believe in themselves? Outside of that, they both seem confrontational in general. Dwlee spends a lot of time sticking their nose up at things and Kerset came back all snarky. Seeing two confrontational players with divisive opinions should be drawing more blood, but instead their behavior just seems conditional and mostly empty threats. I dislike both of them more.

- Gamma votes are fine but I'm just skimming pasts his posts. If the call to vote him is because his lack of usefulness I can be alright with that, but I don't know if it's the scummiest thing in the room. Townies can be pretty useless as well and I haven't seen him be all too opportunistic yet, so I'm more fine with waiting to see what happens.

- Pooky/Penguin have a funny duo gimmick going on. Good cop/bad cop? I can't read anything out of it. I like Pooky more than Penguin just because he seems more earnest while retaining playfulness, meanwhile Penguin is way more stricter but won't tell you exactly what you did wrong.

- Limit is still my biggest townread even if they're not nearly as present anymore. I can see them feeling a bit upset that nobody seemed to really care about what they had to say about Cakez and instead falling into the background.

- I don't know what to think about Tigerente other than they're trying. Not the biggest read out of everyone but I get the feeling they would try as either alignment.

- Almost50 had that weird moment and then never followed up on it. He never really got far in my own internal readlist but he dropped a little because eccentricity is not exclusively town.

[xHeavenx]

I've loved your thoroughness recently Datisi and you've completely won me over, while you still retain some hmm I no longer think it's scummy. If other people were more engaging and less ambiguous like you I think I could read them easier but I can't. Is there anyone here that you think would intentionally veil themselves as scum? Maybe due to lack of townie thought?

[xHeavenx]

Cakez is really scummy here and I'm disappointed his wagon fell off. What's townie about someone who comes back and votes consensus wagon in the middle of an apparent catchup? Don't you care about your own thoughts and how they could change based on unknown information? Apparently not.

[xHeavenx]

Cakez is really scummy here and I'm disappointed his wagon fell off. What's townie about someone who comes back and votes consensus wagon in the middle of an apparent catchup? Don't you care about your own thoughts and how they could change based on unknown information? Apparently not.

what consensus wagon? I voted A50 who has no votes and then Gamma who has two votes.
and I always place votes and stuff while catching up because it reflects my thoughts while reading

Gamma has huge momentum right now. It's pretty much a building counterwagon

What does this matter anyways? Your vote doesn't need to be justified to me, because if you think it's the right one I should be able to get that from your posts. I don't, I just see you vying for relevancy as you driveby numerous topics, eventually leading to a non-committal vote.

[xHeavenx]

Cakez is really scummy here and I'm disappointed his wagon fell off. What's townie about someone who comes back and votes consensus wagon in the middle of an apparent catchup? Don't you care about your own thoughts and how they could change based on unknown information? Apparently not.

what consensus wagon? I voted A50 who has no votes and then Gamma who has two votes.
and I always place votes and stuff while catching up because it reflects my thoughts while reading

Gamma has huge momentum right now. It's pretty much a building counterwagon

What does this matter anyways? Your vote doesn't need to be justified to me, because if you think it's the right one I should be able to get that from your posts. I don't, I just see you vying for relevancy as you driveby numerous topics, eventually leading to a non-committal vote.

Where is the "huge momentum"? This is such a misrep and objectively false.
I responded because it's bullshit you're spewing and it needs to be called out.

No you responded because you care too much about your image and not what your posts are actually bringing to the table.

[xHeavenx]

I really have the strong feeling after catchup that scum are all over Kerset

Who are the scum on kerset’s wagon?

- lilith

Dwlee, A50, Gamma

How are you getting this when you're not even broadly defining why these three make sense? It just seems so fake I'm sorry.

[xHeavenx]

If you go back to page 30 and read through literally the only people talking about Gamma in the context of his play and not this stupid discussion of whether he's a wagon or not are Tig, Dats and me

Those are the people with the most thread influence so that obviously means that wagon is going to happen, which makes me think you pretty much decided that's where the vote should be or what you should talk about.

[xHeavenx]

Maybe I'm being too hard on Cakez but if I had to summarize what I see

- Says he is going to catch-up, doesn't
- Doesn't initiate conversation, rather just focuses on himself. A lot of groaning in particular
- Has no opinions barring what is being told to them or already said

I think this flips scum every time. He's not doing anything a townie would here, which is putting consideration first. Asking himself what his posts are actually doing and if they're helping. There is none of that, rather it's just a microcosm of reactionary thoughts

[xHeavenx]

Please eliminate SirCakez I'll take the blame if it's wrong.

[xHeavenx]

I'm just one person, who's everyone?

[xHeavenx]

Do you think those people are scummy for pushing you?

[xHeavenx]

Do you think those people are scummy for pushing you?

No but I wish they would leave me alone for a few minutes so I could stop talking about myself and actually scumhunt

I don't get that, if I'm town and I'm being apparently dogpiled on then the scumteam finds the opposition to be worth something? I also don't get what your quotes there are supposed to represent, it just seems like people talking about you. The only person who wants you to die is probably me.

[xHeavenx]

I won't be changing my vote and if you need me you know where to find me.

[xHeavenx]

This is actual scum flailing and anyone who doesn't see that needs their eyes checked.

[xHeavenx]

Cakez knows he fucked himself and now just wants to have fun while not trying to lead onto who his partners are. His job is to merely distract at this rate.

Please kill him. Please.

[xHeavenx]

I remember when scum didn't give up at the first sight of trouble. You're in my scope Cakey boy

[xHeavenx]

Going back to my "cave." Notify me when Cakez is dead. If he's not dead? Something is going wrong.

[xHeavenx]

Maybe I'm being too hard on Cakez but if I had to summarize what I see

- Says he is going to catch-up, doesn't
- Doesn't initiate conversation, rather just focuses on himself. A lot of groaning in particular
- Has no opinions barring what is being told to them or already said

I think this flips scum every time. He's not doing anything a townie would here, which is putting consideration first. Asking himself what his posts are actually doing and if they're helping. There is none of that, rather it's just a microcosm of reactionary thoughts

anway i'm not sure how much i like this post

heaven, how did you arrive at the "cakez did not catch up"?

I'm not bussing him so I should be town for the rest of the game after he flips scum.

[xHeavenx]

heeeaveeeeen i don't like these posts

Didn't you just say you wanted to vote Cakez? I'm putting a lot on the line making such bold claims here.

[xHeavenx]

VOTE: Kerset

This is enough content for the day. I don't care if people think I'm scummy for the hammer you do what you have to do.

[xHeavenx]

Kerset would've claimed PR by now if he was one.

[xHeavenx]

You'd be complaining right now if you were a PR right?

[xHeavenx]

If Kerset is scum then I mismanaged some things.

[xHeavenx]

I wasn't townreading her by any stretch of the imagination I just much preferred Cakez here.

[xHeavenx]

If Kerset is scum then I mismanaged some things.

? Your goal was to hammer town?

My goal was to move on from the day. If she flips scum then I had no part in it she was null.

[xHeavenx]

What the fuck was that Heaven

Okay nevermind Kerset flips town.

[xHeavenx]

If Kerset is scum then my read on Cakez is unjustified, because I don't think Cakez tries to be all shock and awe at my hammer?

[xHeavenx]

If Kerset is scum then my read on Cakez is unjustified, because I don't think Cakez tries to be all shock and awe at my hammer?

I don't think it's that AI. I've seen it from both alignments on people who flip both alignments

-b

Probably not and I'm not hopeful to her being scum, I am banking a lot on my Cakez read right now.

[xHeavenx]

I knew something was wrong about a50.

[xHeavenx]

The people talking about how they townread a50 to me don't really make a compelling argument. I would almost read that like shying away from the kill but maybe a bit of a stretch. Am I allowed to say that me townreading Kerset at the end and thinking he would flip town should "clear" me too?

[xHeavenx]

Tigerente and Umluat should both be clear here right? Unless Umlaut could be claiming results as scum roleblocker? This is my first time playing this setup so I don't entirely grasp the randomization process.

[xHeavenx]

I want to vote Cakez but I want to look through a50 a little bit more to see if he dropped some obvious hints.

[xHeavenx]

I'm at

Town

Infinity

[Umlaut]

[Tigerente]

Datisi

Pooky

Dwlee

Gamma

Penguin

Cakez

Scum

Then.

[xHeavenx]

I don't think I fully townread what Dwlee did earlier. I think their reaction could be something they could reasonably do as scum either by faking an impression or simply not really paying attention how the setup works. Penguin drops a lot for me as I agree his behavior could be in line with an SK, which I'm assuming is all but pretty much confirmed given the Tigerente/Umluat situation?

[xHeavenx]

we are shutting the fuck up about what is or isn't mechanically confirmed until the massclaim is done.

pedit: don't know don't care you both have shite relations with kerset imo

You didn't seem like an aggressive person last time we had issues.

[xHeavenx]

we are shutting the fuck up about what is or isn't mechanically confirmed until the massclaim is done.

pedit: don't know don't care you both have shite relations with kerset imo

You didn't seem like an aggressive person last time we had issues.

i don't consider saying "we're shutting the fuck up" to be an aggressive/malicious thing, but maybe i am more lax about swears than an average person. it wasn't meant to be aggressive it just meant "pls stop talking".

Tonally it shocked me and it made me put you down a bit more in my own mental readlist even though I just posted one.

[xHeavenx]

not really paying attention how the setup works

Well I believe it's confirmed that there's 3 scum so it would have to be faked, and I don't think it was faked.

I've won games where my reaction as scum wasn't faked and people falsely townread it because I have slugbrain. I just wouldn't entirely clear them.

[xHeavenx]

I assume that just means the algorithm for the setup wasn't entirely precise but the game lives on as it's own thing?

[xHeavenx]

Yeah that's what I pretty much thought. I give you towncred for your response to all this. I feel like most of us are just at eliminating cakez here.

[xHeavenx]

I think I've been very Townie here and the fact people don't see it makes me sad. Also I'm without power right now.

[xHeavenx]

Wait how is there 2 scum left there's no setup that has 4 groupscum and two are dead.

[xHeavenx]

I don't know to hunt third party behavior either so my reads are more dependent on who I think is townier.

[xHeavenx]

If cakez flipped sk I think that could make sense as I want to stand by what I told datisi about cakez/umluat/Kerset only having one.

[xHeavenx]

I want to refrain giving my further opinions wrt my readlist because I want to let them marinate. I'm not blindly confident on cakez it just helps we have room to make mistakes now.

[xHeavenx]

I think heaven is more likely as the SK given hammer, twilight comments, and “cleared” comment today.

I just don’t have many more suspects for groupscum outside of Cakez atm. You were the driving force behind the swap (despite later abandoning) and Kerset was a goon so it’s not unlikely that cakez is scum pr. Also possible scum hopped on towards the end of the day, but there was time to shift it so...mmmm.

You're not focusing on the other aspect of that post and it bothers me that you would complain about people not reading your posts at the same exact level. There were multiple people including you who are saying things like they townread a50 so they'd never kill them or even shoot them because reasons. I think this is a farce.

[xHeavenx]

I read the post. I pulled out the salient point.

That point was made to show how ridiculous the previous claim was. I wasn't saying that I should be clear because of it.

[xHeavenx]

I think that's fine. I don't like them either because I was wrong on Kerset at last minute despite having him in a poe.

[xHeavenx]

okay that is a weird sequence for scum!heaven i'll give you that

that said, what happened to 1266 heaven?

We got another dead scum and Cakez never became a townread overnight.

[xHeavenx]

Having retribution with Cakez being scum is all I care about right now.

I'm VT.