White flag #824 game over

[MURDERCAT]

Hi

VOTE: Pooky

Policy

[MURDERCAT]

how would you feel about every player in the game picking Infinity324 and MURDERCAT?

We are masons infinity, earlier than usual

[MURDERCAT]

NM likely town imo

[MURDERCAT]

More likely than chance

[MURDERCAT]

Playing like you did in Mini 2170

I was right about NM that game

[MURDERCAT]

This is the game I earn a title for Pooky, I'm feeling it

[MURDERCAT]

do i really have to explain why implo is town

I agree I think

[MURDERCAT]

I'm caught up, will share thoughts when I get to computer post

[MURDERCAT]

it's strange to me that you're townreading him for essentially saying "i have this strategy that will produce good solves, but it will only come true later on", and you're townread him now for it, rather than when he actually produces results

I saw him do basically the same thing in a town game, so what's weird about it

[MURDERCAT]

because I just read their iso and i think it's doo doo and they are obvious scum.

I haven't really even gotten to post yet, busy at work and today

[MURDERCAT]

@implosion + MURDERCAT: aside from the people who are clearly against it and Not_Mafia, y’all are the only two to not do my thing yet. Would you like to pick some people or are you opting out?

I thought it was implicit I was choosing you and infinity

[MURDERCAT]

Any comment on your wagon or pooky's read?

Not that far yet

[MURDERCAT]

I think Pooky read is fine, most worried about Klick? More interested in finding town though

[MURDERCAT]

{GL, gamma, infinity, implo, NM, Flea}

I feel decently good that this list is town.

[MURDERCAT]

GL is tone so take that for what it's worth (not much for the people scum reading there I bet)
Gamma is for doing something similar to a town game I was in with him
Infinity and I are masons (less likely to go e me time to post as scum)
Implo also tone and wagon dynamics but I've liked some of his thoughts as well
NM I feel like I can read based on previous games as crazy as that sounds, but it's too early to talk about my read on him
Flea I don't think ever posts 320 as scum, it's too genuine

[MURDERCAT]

explain the two bolded ones

give me*

As you can see I'm phone posting at 6:30am so don't expect too much please

Infinity I think is more likely to take a strong stance on me and keep it (this did happen early but infinity is now wavering; if she wanted to scum read me as scum she would just do it).

Implo I need to computer post about, sorry

[MURDERCAT]

why are all of your townreads tone and "they did something similar to a previous town game"

What else should I use 15 pages in?

[MURDERCAT]

speaking of which, where tf is murdercat.

Busy weekend sorry, should have a lot more time this week. Last week had some unexpected stuff come up

[MURDERCAT]

Making a long post now

[MURDERCAT]

I read the beginning iso of implosion for open 820 and open 793/micro 1023 and feel better about calling him town. I thought he was town mostly because I thought his posting was fine in the early game and it felt like the wagon on him came from nowhere. But stuff like 75 and 86 don’t show up as much in 820 (as scum). His posting is a lot fluffier and the scum reads I’m seeing are a lot less developed. I do think I’m conf biased a bit because I think it would make the early game a lot easier to read if implo is town, but anyway I’m happy with it for D1.

NM is the first to push implosion in 21 and Dwlee hops on in 28. I think I dislike dwlee’s vote a bit more, but I’m biased a bit because I’m feeling a bit off about Dwlee in general this game. That said, I’ve shown I can’t read Dwlee so I don’t want to put too much stock in it. GL also jumps onto Implosion in 33 with a naked vote. Datisi makes his vote official in 44 but I like the reasoning about NM so I don’t mind that “vote” much at all. I also like the thought process in 47 (even if I think I disagree with the outcome) so I think Datisi is likely town. Flea votes implosion in 59 as faer’s first post of the game, which does strike me as a bit odd.

Gamma’s solving on page 3 strikes me as genuine, I like that he committed to asking people to do his thing. Like I said, there was another game where he did something similar so I am happy to townbin him for D1 for that. 68 from Dwlee seems off to me, I came into the reread thinking Flea is town but was still offput by faer’s first post. But maybe it’s not a serious read.

Completely disagree with implo in 75 by the way, I think scum is more likely to keep an RVS vote without saying anything about it. Infinity talking down the Gamma/bugspray 1v1 feels very towny, unless Infinity is specifically scum with bugs. But even then I’m not sure what the scum motivation is for jumping in so early. I like GL’s posting in 82. Infinity townreading implo as well in 88 is enough to townbin Infinity (for reasons similar to what I said about Infinity/bugs).

Klick’s entrance doesn’t speak to me much, except they probably aren’t scum with bugs. 93 I do not like from bugs. Goats I’ve been a little back and forth on, some stuff has felt off but there’s a voice in the back of my head saying there’s nothing really that scummy and their probably just town. I like the vote on Dwlee to start. I think 98 is just not being able to read Gamma well. Datisi is super town to me. Feeling worse about Flea as of 110. Infinity also obvtown, and I’m moving dwlee to scum tier because Infinity is with me. I like GL’s posting in 131 and 132 and I was already leaning towards GL town, so GL gets to go in the townbin. Dwlee townreading me in 137 is terrible. Feeling worse about NM defending Dwlee.

Datisi is so town, Pooky readlist in 156 is terrible. I don’t like his interaction with implo either, feels like mini 2170. The switch to me being scum after being null a few posts ago is bad too. Flea trying to mech talk in an open with no mechanics is pretty lol tbh. Putting goats into townbin for moving back onto dwlee and moving Pooky to scum for now. Putting Flea in null actually but might change it. Gunna put bugs into null as well because I’m not really convinced but dwlee vote there is + town equity. Not getting the GL votes. Klick continues to not do that much, so gunna say null for now? And that leaves NM who I’m leaning town on due to gut but I’ll put him in null also because I don’t want to hard commit to TRing him.

I’m around page 11 now but I have to start work so I’m going to skim ahead a bit to my wagon. I should come back and read GL though because I’m not seeing what everyone else is. Got to my wagon, started by my two biggest scum reads so nothing really changes I think. Ok only got to page 16 but I have stuff to do.


{implosion, Datisi, gamma, Infinity, GL, goats}
{Flea, bugs, Klick, NM}
{Dwlee, Pooky}

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: Dwlee I guess, though I doubt I get either of those wagons through D1. Wouldn't hate flipping Flea if I have to compromise.

[MURDERCAT]

Ok 1 more thing, I realized I didn't look at 156 for Pooky's thoughts on Dwlee. Just did and I don't really like the progression.

[MURDERCAT]

@murdercat, why do you dislike pooky's reads? what's the issue with him starting to think you're scum?

You are a strong town read of mine, and he is calling you scum? I'm not sure I understand the question really. When someone has a read that is directly opposed to mine I tend to question if they have the same mindset as me.

[MURDERCAT]

Here comes the promised wall post.

It includes some pretty sweet stuff:

Spoiler: Colored ReadsList

Town As Fuck: GuiltyLion, Not Mafia, Gamma Emerald

Still Pretty Town: Dwlee, Infinity, GoatDude, Flea, Klick, Bugspray

Do Something Useful Already: Murdercat

Burn Baby Burn! Disco Inferno: Datisi

Should already be dead: Imploscum

Do not click on below if you are sensitive to me mercilessly flaming you (Love You Gamma)

Spoiler: Post by Post Analysis

Spoiler: TLDR Summary

Yeet Implo today, yeet Datisi tommorrow game over let's go

VOTE: Implosion

did I troll implo into towntelling?

fuck im awesome

UNVOTE: implosion

carry on good citizens and hunt down evil-doers.

I heard murdercat is hiding in the forest somewhere being a baddie bad so maybe we yeet him instead.

I didn't post between these posts

[MURDERCAT]

he sounds like he didnt read my post by post analysis at all.

I read pretty much all of it actually.

[MURDERCAT]

Because by that point I had already determined both implo and datisi were town and you should have too

[MURDERCAT]

I do think this is strange because I don't have history playing with you, and certainly not with you and Pooky at the same time. Why should Pooky-specifically have been able to read me-specifically (and Datisi I guess but more interested in me) at that point in the game?

I don't really get why I have to defend this further, if someone in the game is trying to elim me and two of my town reads I'm going to be suspicious that they are scum trying to eliminate town.

[MURDERCAT]

I'm very interested in the juxtaposition of Infinity "this is very obviously MC's town meta" 324 and PookyThe "this is very obviously not MC's town meta" MagicalBear.

Could it be ... one is scum?

[MURDERCAT]

I don't like that you're dancing around a definitive read on Flea with your posts here, you had fae as town in 383 for 320, what's your past experience with Flea and how confident are you that fae doesn't post that as scum?

I'm back and forth on Flea. Could be Pooky is hard defending bugs, in which case I would guess {Pooky, Dwlee, Bugs} but if it's a white knight then Flea makes sense in that slot. But we only need to find two anyway. The way Pooky is hard defending bugs actually reminds me of team mafia where he did that with Kanna.

[MURDERCAT]

I'm gunna lock in {Pooky, Dwlee, Bugs} as my hero solve actually, I'll go with my early gut on Flea.

Would prefer the others to bugs obviously, but happy to compromise there later.

[MURDERCAT]

Bugs is at E-NM by the way

[MURDERCAT]

yea mc saying that im hard defending my mafia teammate bugspray while not voting bugspray

It would effectively be hammer if I voted?

[MURDERCAT]

No? When have I ever done a play like that as town

[MURDERCAT]

you choose then to not hammer bugspray when doing it would pretty much kill me/bugspray and win the game.

I've never actually managed to nail the entire scum team on D1 so
If I'm scum why wouldn't I want a bugs hammer? You aren't following your own logic to the natural conclusion

[MURDERCAT]

cuz u look pretty bad if bugspray flips town and you probly get yeeted tomm?

A lot of people would look way worse than me?

[MURDERCAT]

Gamma/Dwlee/implo? Probably all people I could push, I could easily have voted and oops NM hammers with very little pressure on me for it

[MURDERCAT]

The issue is you said that Pooky should have had implosion as town as of 156 - which is a dubious claim to begin with - but more importantly Pooky got there shortly after, saying he is "trying to elim" implosion isn't an accurate depiction of his play.

Look if you all don't see Pooky scum yet that's fine but it's pretty clear to me

[MURDERCAT]

I'm gonna look at some MURDERCAT scum games in between spells of work today to see what his top scum performance can look like cause I'm worried the Infinity examples might be closer to his worst rather than his average/best

I also dislike the argument on this page of "why would I not want a bugs hammer as scum" on first pass, feels WIFOMy

It's this one: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=85633

[MURDERCAT]

let's 1v1 me and dwlee please

[MURDERCAT]

NSG please vote between me and dwlee

[MURDERCAT]

Ah I missed you weren't fully caught up

[MURDERCAT]

I didn't post at all in draft mafia but it was true that decision was made before I had an alignment. It was supposed to be a coaching hydra for Noraa. I only gave my thoughts in discord.

[MURDERCAT]

MC r u going to explain why you are telling NSG to vote between you and dwlee?

Dwlee wagon is more viable than you

[MURDERCAT]

Murdercat do you pinky promise that there is one scum between us?

I promise there's not 2

[MURDERCAT]

murder, you are gonna have to try to explain your pooky read if you want people to listen to you

At some point I will, but it requires digging through old games.

[MURDERCAT]

so you still think i'm scum but you think you can't get any1 to vote for me so you're gonna give up and settle for dlee instead?

I'm not settling, I made it clear I was happy if I got either of you and that I'd settle for bugs.

[MURDERCAT]

why not just ask me to vote dwlee then as opposed to introducing the idea as voting between you two? why even entertain the idea of me voting for you?

I'm trying to make a 1v1 happen and I want everyone to pick sides

[MURDERCAT]

like why would town!you even be indifferent between you/dwlee which one gets elimmed

I didn't say I was indifferent to who got limmed

this is the stuff that scum pooky does by the way

[MURDERCAT]

like why would town!you even be indifferent between you/dwlee which one gets elimmed

I didn't say I was indifferent to who got limmed

this is the stuff that scum pooky does by the way

Like this is scum pooky trying to make someone look bad by twisting words, not town pooky genuinely trying to sort me or even get town to agree I'm scum.

[MURDERCAT]

You've never seen Titus ask for wagons between two players without the immediate intention of limming one of them? I know you aren't this dense.

[MURDERCAT]

Do I really have to argue that forcing people to commit between Dwlee and myself is protown in the case one of us ever flips?

[MURDERCAT]

i'm not sure anyone really disagrees with this.

except scum pooky I guess

I don't really see the point in arguing whether my particular approach is good or not unless you think it's scum indicative, which it isn't because I have done it before as town.

[MURDERCAT]

could you link me to that?

yeah but it's kind of hard to CTRL-F for so I'll have to look for an example later

[MURDERCAT]

im just asking you why its good

You aren't interested in who doesn't want to vote, FYPOV, scum me?

[MURDERCAT]

how often are you miselimed as town, murdercat?

Fairly rarely, though getting run up on D1 when I'm feeling lazy happens fairly often

[MURDERCAT]

Murdercat is NSTing because he's not very interested in solving/interaction and needs to be dragged by his fingernails into even trying.

Now show that this hasn't happened to me when I'm town

[MURDERCAT]

MC needs thoughts on northside

Still not my preferred lim, better than bugs obviously, but nothing that screams town to me

[MURDERCAT]

i'm not sure why yours is

I can give you a hint if you want

[MURDERCAT]

MC read on Pooky reminds me of MC read on LLD in Yggdrasil so that is tempting.

So you think I'm town?

[MURDERCAT]

cuz i had to hit him with a baseball bat to even try in this game!?!?!?

Now show it's scum indicative

[MURDERCAT]

Tbh I see both sides here, but I don’t wanna say more until mcat responds

Not sure what you want me to say, this isn't even the basis of my Pooky read anymore

[MURDERCAT]

im still waiting for murdercat to explain how its protown from his POV for him to throw out this thunderdome

data is good, I think dwlee isn't town and I think I will flip at some point this game. If dwlee or I flip how people reacted to that will be used for associations.

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: pooky

kill me first

I know pooky isn't so bad at reading me that he does this as town

[MURDERCAT]

why dwlee is scum here

It's gut, I don't feel like dwlee's opinions have been genuine/I haven't followed the progression

[MURDERCAT]

To be clear, my read on Pooky became more confident when he continued to push me/refused to reevaluate me after I reentered the thread
Pooky using the Paragon of Mafia Hunter's line is exactly what he used to push me in our last game IIRC (we were both scum)
Look at the way he twists words slightly to make me/Infinity sound unreasonable. That is scum Pooky. Compare to Death Curse.

[MURDERCAT]

MC gets negative points for not even considering revealing me btw

I'm not sure what this means

[MURDERCAT]

i'm shocked nobody cares that i'm voting with my top 2 scumreads to yeet dlee

wild

You are ateing

[MURDERCAT]

if green we just yeet pooks tomorrow (yes i am chaining)

Weak tbh

[MURDERCAT]

I'm not sure why you'd ever yeet me D1 when I consistently do better/and get easier to read with time. If you want info and think dwlee is town yeet nsg who is actually good at scum

[MURDERCAT]

revealing

reevaluating?

[MURDERCAT]

ok but while you're a slow starter, you do lurk it out as scum. And this came up twice that I remember and accurately.

Compare this game to:
-Team Mafia
-Dogs vs Cats
-Among us
-Yggdrasil

All games I was town in, took a bit to get going, then found my footing. Then look at:
-Open 802
-Open 805
-Open 821

[MURDERCAT]

I know you were, that's why you should know the fact that I'm now present and driving wagons is the AI thing, not the slow start thing

[MURDERCAT]

lol

are you joking or?

I mean maybe your wiki is out of date but:

"7-3 70% as Mafia/Werewolves"

[MURDERCAT]

hmm

now, i don't think we've actually played together before nor do i think you've been in a game i've modded, but i sort of get the feeling that you probably would never make that kind of comment as town. i think that if i were just trying to keep things super simple 1109 alone probably warrants your death.

I've read your wiki before, as you know

[MURDERCAT]

i would appreciate if mc gave actual reasons for saying that

Because I think I will be very obviously town on D2 and I don't think that applies to NSG

[MURDERCAT]

it's like, yes he's pushing pooky and dwlee but the nuance is gone

I'm ready for a flip in any of {pooky, dwlee, nsg, flea} in that order. I guess NM is also fine, but I don't think it's a great decision. But all of those are better flips than me

[MURDERCAT]

saying to yeet nsg solely because of it

I don't want an NSG flip as a first priority, I'm illustrating that there are better flips than me if you want info/a chance of hitting scum. I am attempting to view things from YPOV and even from YPOV I am not a good flip.

[MURDERCAT]

did you check NSG's wiki before or after you posted 1109

Referenced below, I have read through NSG's wiki previously, it's my only interaction with NSG's scum game. I assumed it was decent based on that.

[MURDERCAT]

Pooky who am I scum with

[MURDERCAT]

that's pretty annoying that dwlee is going to live D1 and I'm not
Please flip both Dwlee and pooky
Infinity please trust that these are strong reads that I'm committed to and trust me, especially RE pooky

[MURDERCAT]

Scum Pooky does ate to look town all the time?

[MURDERCAT]

Look at team mafia where he was all boohoo about Kanna getting eliminated D1

[MURDERCAT]

If you don't hit scum D2 and everyone looks pretty towny take a close look at NM

[MURDERCAT]

pooky doesn't get worked up and yell at people for no reason

He does it to look town

[MURDERCAT]

Like, notice how I'm about to get eliminated. That's why Pooky did it

[MURDERCAT]

Pooky uses real emotion as scum to generate favorable outcomes

If town doesn't eliminate Pooky after I flip and he is scum I'm gunna be pretty mad

[MURDERCAT]

Well I'm about to get NM'd, good luck all

[MURDERCAT]

{Infinity 324, goats, Gamma, Datisi, implosion}
{GuiltyLion, Enchant}
{Not_Mafia}
{Flea, NSG}
{Pooky, Dwlee99}

[MURDERCAT]

it's 2am for nm I think, someone else just hammer please

[MURDERCAT]

okmwell I have final reads and I'm outside prod range so have fun, I'm out

[MURDERCAT]

Wait we won? Surprised.

Gg thanks for modding