Open 838 – ISITMAINAC [Endgame]

[Greeting]

Greetings! Checking in. VOTE: A Dreary Saturday Evening for having a too long and too pretentious nickname for my liking.

[Greeting]

I am convinced that the existence of songs like Dance Monkey is God's punishment for humans destroying and polluting Planet Earth.

[Greeting]

VOTE: RCEnigma :3

Why would you do that? Unless you’re a jester, like

Not_Mafia

?

[Greeting]

What’s all this talk about ending RVS even about? RVS ends naturally, one way or another. In this game it was over in like less than two whole pages, which isn’t anything out of the ordinary. I didn’t get the impression that anyone has been trying to prolong it in any way.

[Greeting]

Strange Matter/Nathann exchange is a lot of words about nothing. I need to read how experienced players are harder to read? Also, water is wet..

Also not a fan of “not knowing who IC is”…

I don't think not know who the ic is is not that big of a deal on your entry. Do you read every mod post before rvs?

It’s Bolded in Green. If you aren’t reading about the game rules and specifics, Why are you even playing?

I fumble rules/setups all the time, and sometimes it takes me a while to catch up with them. Example I don't understand how we arrived at this setup even though there is a post telling us what was done to get it. All I know is that dice were rolled.

You’re not alone in this. I jumped here straight from Newbie Games and I haven’t even begun figuring out the setup of this game.

[Greeting]

VC

Not_Mafia (2): RH9, Not_Mafia
StrangeMatter (2): Nathann, Salsabil Faria

Save The Dragons (1): StrangeMatter
Scorpious (1): Galron
Almost50 (1): Scorpious
A Dreary Saturday Evening (1): Greeting, A Dreary Saturday Evening
Cupcake Butterfly (1): RCEnigma
Salsabil Faria (1): Cupcake Butterfly
A Dreary Saturday Evening (1): Almost50

With 13 alive it takes 7 to reach a decision.

There are (expired on 2021-12-15 22:16:18) left before deadline.

Something is wrong with this vote tally. ADSE did not vote for themselves, but for

CupcakeButterfly

(post 28)? Plus why are they listed twice, with the votes not added up? Or is this deliberate?

[Greeting]

Greetings, do you have any actual thoughts on people's alignments? Same question to Scorpious, actually.

I have two, maybe not

per se

about alignments.

Not_Mafia

is a jester and I know that from another game I've been in with them. Plus, they were scum in this game. But we apparently also have a second jester, who seems really more invested in distractions and diversions and not the actual game.

I'm really, really distrustful of jesters.

And that is, VOTE: Save The Dragons. Until they show me otherwise.

[Greeting]

I have more experience with STD than Salsa if that’s what you mean.

This sounds interesting out of context.

[Greeting]

Greetings, do you have any actual thoughts on people's alignments? Same question to Scorpious, actually.

I have two, maybe not

per se

about alignments.

Not_Mafia

is a jester and I know that from another game I've been in with them. Plus, they were scum in this game. But we apparently also have a second jester, who seems really more invested in distractions and diversions and not the actual game.

I'm really, really distrustful of jesters.

And that is, VOTE: Save The Dragons. Until they show me otherwise.

This seems to me a lazy vote. You are or are not scum reading him or are you just waiting for him to town tell?

Err.. that was a lazy reading job on my part. You think STD is a jester?

I'm picking what stands out for me at this moment at the game. They've contributed little to the game and a little pressure might work. And yes, I do.

[Greeting]

VOTE: greeting

Is this an OMGUS vote or are you going to justify it somehow?

[Greeting]

Maybe I missed it, but I don't think there is a jester in this game.

do you know that jester is a role

No, I didn't actually. I've thought of Jester as a style of playing, exemplified well by

Not_Mafia

.

[Greeting]

I have more experience with STD than Salsa if that’s what you mean.

This sounds interesting out of context.

I'd say it sounds hilarious actually.

I'm not a slutshamer, hence why I'm reserved with my comment, but I agree

[Greeting]

VOTE: greeting

Is this an OMGUS vote or are you going to justify it somehow?

your tone is scummy

What's so scummy about it?

[Greeting]

i dunno i just feel it in my jellies

[Greeting]

Theoretical discussion contributes little.

What do you mean?

[Greeting]

i don't really have reads at this point in time

except for RCEnigma i think he's town

Well done!

[Greeting]

Theoretical discussion contributes little.

What do you mean?

@

Cupcake Butterfly

?

[Greeting]

What is everyone’s experience with the player pool? You don’t need to be super detailed, but have you played with these people?

This is my first non-Newbie game. I feel like I might have made a mistake jumping right into an open setup, which I find really confusing, but the queues for more standard setups have been moving too slowly. Still, I hope to gain more experience from this game.

I have played with

RCEnigma

(Newbie 2078),

Not_Mafia

(Newbie 2081) and

StrangeMatter

(Newbie 2082).

There is no point in me talking about

RCEnigma

for obvious reasons.

When it comes to

Not_Mafia

, unfortunately it seems to me that they have a trollish play style in every game. They were scum in the game where I was with them, though.

I have been in two games with

StrangeMatter

. One is ongoing, so I will speak about the one that's finished, and that is the one I mentioned earlier in the post. He had a much more reserved attitude and approach in that game. His behavior until around end of D2 was pretty much sitting on the sidelines, with some discussion happening between him, me and other players, but in my opinion, it was generally away from the main tide of the game. This is in contrast to this game, where he seems to be in the centre, whilst I'm sidelined. They were town in the game which I'm referring. I pushed them

hard

in that game and they turned out to be town in the end. Which is why I'm more careful and reserved while evaluating them.

I also know

RH9

as he spectated some games in which I played. But we've never been together in a game before.

[Greeting]

Sorry *they (

StrangeMatter

)

[Greeting]

More votes on Scorpious please

Why?

[Greeting]

Also, tbf, the pressure on people getting accurate reads on page 9, D1 one of the game doesn't really convince me it's the right way forward. I am getting a lot of neutral reads, and I can say that it's happened to me in other games on this site before, even far later than page 9. I'm not going to force a townlean or a scumlean from myself out of nothing.

[Greeting]

So what's your read on Scorpious, Greeting? And if you don't have one, what will it take to get you to have one?

It's neutral. There is nothing that worries me and nothing that makes me think that they're town.

Post 208 can be interpreted in various ways. I'm choosing to interpret it as a good way to find some harder clues on anybody, but I keep it in the back of my mind to see which way the game will progress from this. What I mean is, only time will tell if overreliance on meta turns this game into a bizarre twist. But so far, the progress has been quite slow, and the impact of this post has been small, even though 13 hours passed since that post was made. The only player whom I really feel like I can compare-check, knowing them from past games is

StrangeMatter

, but I still think it's too early for me to draw any definite conclusions (see post 218).

[Greeting]

Oh and what will it take me to get me to have one? More time and more posts from them.

[Greeting]

VC

Not_Mafia (2): RH9, Not_Mafia
StrangeMatter (2): Nathann, Salsabil Faria

Save The Dragons (1): StrangeMatter
Scorpious (1): Galron
Almost50 (1): Scorpious
A Dreary Saturday Evening (1): Greeting, A Dreary Saturday Evening
Cupcake Butterfly (1): RCEnigma
Salsabil Faria (1): Cupcake Butterfly
A Dreary Saturday Evening (1): Almost50

With 13 alive it takes 7 to reach a decision.

There are (expired on 2021-12-15 22:16:18) left before deadline.

Something is wrong with this vote tally. ADSE did not vote for themselves, but for

CupcakeButterfly

(post 28)? Plus why are they listed twice, with the votes not added up? Or is this deliberate?

It's error.

Oh, alright. Thanks for clarifying.

[Greeting]

So what's your read on Scorpious, Greeting? And if you don't have one, what will it take to get you to have one?

It's neutral. There is nothing that worries me and nothing that makes me think that they're town.

Post 208 can be interpreted in various ways. I'm choosing to interpret it as a good way to find some harder clues on anybody, but I keep it in the back of my mind to see which way the game will progress from this. What I mean is, only time will tell if overreliance on meta turns this game into a bizarre twist. But so far, the progress has been quite slow, and the impact of this post has been small, even though 13 hours passed since that post was made. The only player whom I really feel like I can compare-check, knowing them from past games is

StrangeMatter

, but I still think it's too early for me to draw any definite conclusions (see post 218).

I understand that you're relatively new here so like with the jester thing I want to make sure I understand you. What do you mean by bizarre twist?

Let me paint a picture.

Scorpious

makes a post which leads to players pouring out their experiences with others in the game. Players start pouring their thoughts. Two, maybe three posts align in content and players find some common points. This starts to carry the game, with players getting obsessed with meta and, indeed find someone who's acting differently. That becomes the sole reason why they're being voted out. This is what I would call a bizarre twist and could be used easily to frame someone.

And here's what I say to this picture: meta can be useful, but personally I would never vote out a player just because they act differently to another game. To me, it always comes second to actual reads which I see as: content (obviously), voting record, tone of posts. Meta in my eyes can support a townlean or a scumlean.

Oh and what will it take me to get me to have one? More time and more posts from them.

Who is this about?

You.

[Greeting]

Oh and what will it take me to get me to have one? More time and more posts from them.

Who is this about?

You.

As of that post I have posted the most in this game, so this is total Bull, you realize that right?

VOTE: Greeting

Saying you need to hear “more” from the person that has posted the most in the game is sketch city.

Makes no sense in any scenario.

I hate 251 and 253 for kind of obvious reasons, but I'll let Greeting respond first.

He doesn’t have to.

UNVOTE: Greeting

I got what I needed.

It doesn't matter how many posts you have to me. It's their content that I'm interested in. And your content was flavourless until... well, now.

Now

you've provided me with some content that's concerning. Care to explain what was all that about? That sudden vote on me, and an even weirder sudden unvote?

[Greeting]

@

Scorpious

If you don’t have a townie explanation for this then I have a scummy one: this is scum pretending to play some kind of secret game to find reads when in reality nothing happened. Way to get some easy towncred for acting all bold with voting and accusations.

Your reasons for voting me earlier don’t really make sense to me either. The number of posts is borderline meta. It’s the content that matters.

VOTE: Scorpious

[Greeting]

I lean town with Dragons despite disagreeing with their Sal townread.

I have warmed up to Nathan as well.

I believe I know who Greeting's main is if they are an alt.

Ironically my RVS vote remains most comfortable.

1. Why are you ignoring my question?
2. I am not an alt and do not currently have one.

I’m actually annoyed because you clearly haven’t been paying any attention to what I post and yet you’re drawing conclusions. Did you read

anything

I ever posted in this game?

[Greeting]

Theoretical discussion contributes little.

What do you mean?

@

Cupcake Butterfly

?

.

[Greeting]

Galron is pocketing Greeting.

Meh. D1 isn’t a time for me to pick allies. The only person I automatically trust is

RCEnigma

who is mod townfirmed.

[Greeting]

Theoretical discussion contributes little.

What do you mean?

@

Cupcake Butterfly

?

.

It did not help me read StrangeMatter or Nathan any better than when SM just stated that an early argument could be AI. It felt like most behaviors could've just replaced "early argument" and the sentiment wouldn't have changed.

Okay, thanks. I'm leaning towards being more reserved as an observator when it comes to evaluating arguments on the spot. It makes more sense to me to consider a D1 argument in light of later events, such as a D1 flip or by looking at a person's behavior in general while compiling readslist.

In my personal experience with mafia, early arguments are rarely reliable as an indication of alignment. I don't exclude it, but it is definitely further down when compiling a priority list.

[Greeting]

I don't regret my vote for

Scorpious

. If someone does weird stuff with little explanation, especially if they're an experienced player, they deserve a raised eyebrow, with a slight increase in pressure (which is the purpose of my vote), at least. I've been guilty of not being transparent before, but I promised to come clean and in the end I believe that I have. But so far,

Scorpious

hasn't convinced me that their actions are genuine.

[Greeting]

Feel like I need to say this. Scorpious, I know that you're the highest poster. However, I would like to say that my highest townread is Nathann. Literally, every post he's made has shown high solving intent. He's been trying to sort everybody and has been acting in a progressive manner. I know this might seem pockety but I am saying this genuinely. I don't care, Nathann, if you don't TR me but I would like to point out how much I am liking your actions.

What is this, really? I’ve never seen someone be so enamored with a slot, and be so unabashed in saying so.

It’s just weird.

I decided to say this while I had the chance. I want Nathann to know how much I appreciate him.

[Greeting]

VOTE: Scorpious

RH9's "pocketing" post towards me is one of those posts that I have never seen scum make. The rest of his posts are... infuriating, but I'm wondering if it's my own bias that wants me to keep voting him rather than him being scummy. I'll decide tomorrow.

You do what you want. When 2 replacements are requested, I become meh..I can handle one, but my interest is waining severely. I’m not devoting any extra time to this particular game day anymore.

I’ll be active, and answer whatever you need,because I feel signing up for a game is a commitment to everyone else in the game.

Okay, I can understand that. You shouldn’t blame others for acting accordingly though.

I’ll be active, and answer whatever you need,because I feel signing up for a game is a commitment to everyone else in the game.

Answer 287 then?

If you’re gonna get super hung up on it like you are fine.

I wanted to see the first person to jump on me for a stupid vote. I’ve found that Santa Marias in D1 will often use a vote with little basis to make a case out of. You being so quick in such a slow game was what I was looking for. Not you per se, but anyone. Then a subsequent vote on that person (you in this case) say I’m leaning scum, rinse and repeat. Except I probably won’t be able to now. It’s a process to feel out whoever responds like you did.

As I said, it just gets boring asking the same questions and hunting the same way every game. Might not be the most effective and I might not execute it to perfection, but I enjoy it. And it has been successful in the past. I like “questioning” slots with them knowing I’m doing it.

And what about the short vote on me?

[Greeting]

Well, either you haven’t explained it well, or I am misunderstanding something, because no activity on my part nor any vote on you occured between posts 253 and 263. I am doing little more than echoing

Nathann

’s 264.

[Greeting]

Reset. I’m talking about why I voted you,and about the reaction I got from Nathan, where are we missing each other here?

The vote on you is admittedly weak, but I explained that.

Re 345 - there we go. That wasn't that difficult, was it.

I have... multiple issues with that post. First is that that kind of reaction test is very bad. Scum is likely to jump onto a weak vote, sure, but you know who else is likely to jump on it? Town. Because it was a weak vote. Voting someone because "I have the most posts, and they're saying they need more from me to sort me" is obviously flawed as hell - you have *the most*, doesn't mean you have *enough*. And most posts =/= most content.

Then, you said that scum is likely to make a case out of a weak vote... which is something I never did. I just mentioned in passing how your reasoning for voting Greeting was horrible (which you admitted) and I didn't even vote you for it. And also you never did end up voting me, you just unvoted Greeting.

That said, I think most of my problems with you now are that of playstyle, not necessarily alignment.

I get it now. Thanks,

Nathann

. This whole ordeal was just a waste of time and effort tbf.

[Greeting]

@

Cook

can I get a Vote Count please?

[Greeting]

Not before this. UNVOTE: Scorpious

[Greeting]

The generalized gamestate take is in a game as sluggish as this one there's probably a handful of scum in the low-content slots but sorting them is impossible unless they actually start contributing it's more or less a crapshoot. There are situations where it can be active scum while town is apathetic and lurks it out, but it feels like there's a little too much discord between the active players for that to be the case.

Which one of the more inactive players do you think can be scum?
And how far have you read? I don't expect you to have read everything because you said that you skimmed. But then, who doesn't skim? I remembered that the first time that I replaced in, I skimmed and ended up with reads which are definitely one of my best. Thus, I'll take your reads as though it is 100% correct.

...you realize I'm voting you, right?

Yes. What about it?

Why is it so important that you're voting me? I have come across confbias before and it always lead to me getting townread.

Why, instead of confronting a scumread on you, are you deflecting attention?

[Greeting]

This is also bizarre. I don't understand why you're using meta from players who aren't in this game. I don't get why you're linking the Wiki and user profiles either instead of posts that would support the point you're trying to make. It just seems...busy. Like you're trying to make it look like you're making a case with proper sources when that isn't really what's going on.

What he meant in regard to me was that he's borrowing mine, and another player's, style of bolding names of players for the purpose of making a point. I don't mind this and I don't see this as odd. By this, I mean this borrowing thing in particular of course.

[Greeting]

That last pop-in from Greeting is...not great.

Which post do you mean?

[Greeting]

That last pop-in from Greeting is...not great.

Which post do you mean?

423/424 - a single question to RH9 who is getting a lot of attention, and a clarification of something he was saying to Three.

Is that all you have to add to the game right now? Do you have any reads, at all?

I was confused, because the two posts are very different in nature. One is questioning

RH9

and the other is explaining their actions. If you want to know my attitude towards them, focus on the first post. The second post reflects my wish to not focus on irrelevant stuff. There’s plenty more of eyebrow-raising stuff from that slot than just copying the bolding from me. Unless you think that this is a relevant point or argument, then enlighten me please.

I actually do have reads already, but want to wait a bit more before I post them.

[Greeting]

Wait...for what, exactly? It's 4 and a half days to the deadline.

For more info. You think that’s little time? To me this means I have at least two more days until final wagons are forming.

[Greeting]

I've been quite busy but I'm working on my reads and I will try to post them soon.

[Greeting]

My reads might not be very helpful at this stage of the game, because a significant portion of the game is neutral territory. Now, I try to keep higher standards and am extra careful before elevating someone to a soft townlean. The reasoning behind this is that, I automatically focus far less on what my townleans are saying (although I do listen to them on possible suggestions and obviously aim to work with them), than the rest. Which means that if I townclear someone in my mind too early, I am less likely to find the mistake later on in the game. My favourite, and the most common strategy I use in mafia games, is basically excluding the towniest people in the game and hopefully narrowing the pool of suspects as much as possible. The strategy obviously fails if I exclude someone from the suspect ring too early.

I do not have any hard townleans other than one mod-confirmed player. Although we’re closer to the ending of D1 than the beginning of it, I cannot definitely exclude anyone from the scum pool. I can, however, establish certain priorities for this moment in the game in particular.

This should be read as top - least scummy, bottom - most scummy, unless I state otherwise.

Townleans:

RCEnigma

Soft townleans:

Nathann

Nathann

is a player whose activity has been pretty consistent, their tone is quite trustworthy and their reasoning is decent. In the game, they cut the bullshit and went straight on to solving the game. Now, a scum could do that as well, but this seems to match their general behavior which is strictly on point. And I would say that’s pretty good.

I never really understood the prolonging VC argument they were on early in the game. I had stated my thoughts on this in 141 and I stand by that.

A notable post from them to mention is 353 where they consider their differences with

Scorpious

’ odd play as gameplay differences. I don’t agree with this take. Perhaps there is some meta in play that I don’t know of. I gathered that

Scorpious

is an experienced player. Nonetheless, I think and feel this take comes from a town point of view.

I like the fact that they’re going after

A Dreary Saturday Evening

as this is a direction that I’m also heading towards now (spoiler!). Apparently they’re (I mean

ADSE

) an alt of someone - what’s their main?

Neutral reads:

Three

I don’t see many red flags here. Originally, this was a soft townlean, but while re-reading their posts I’ve decided to downgrade it. Their gameplay generally seems to come from a town point of view. But I have doubts.

The argument for them is that they’re going after

Scorpious

whose actions, even if they themselves claim come from an investigative point of view/burnt out town player, are something I wouldn’t ignore easily. (464).

On the other hand, they seem to be rather defensive of

StrangeMatter

. I have had a problem with evaluating this slot in past games and townclearing them early is inherently suspicious to me.

Admittedly, it also feels odd to me that they’ve been reading into their predecessor and even weirder that they would speak about it (419).

But none of this really warrants a scumread. Which is why this is a neutral read leaning towards town.

Cupcake Butterfly

The feel of their posts was neutral, which is why they’re staying in neutral zone. But only after reading their posts did I realise that their activity patterns have been quite irregular.

They’ve been quite investigative, as with their lines of thoughts in 148, 149. I really failed to see any conclusions from any of this.

I also really don’t like treating

RCEngima

as an expert. I think this is a deeply flawed point of view to rely on an Innocent Child to solve the game for you (172). Even they seemed quite uncomfortable with that. If my vote on

Scorpious

was lazy then pandering to the Innocent Child is even lazier.

There’s something that had pissed me off earlier with that slot and that was the fact that they formed conclusions about the game without reading it carefully. I had said that this is my first non-Newbie game before and yet they came and posted this:

I lean town with Dragons despite disagreeing with their Sal townread.

I have warmed up to Nathan as well.

I believe I know who Greeting's main is if they are an alt.

Ironically my RVS vote remains most comfortable.

The wiki rules clearly state that it’s against the rules to play Newbie games as an alt and having Newbie status. So either, by implying that I might be an alt, they are accusing me of breaking MafiaScum rules or their reasoning was just lazy and lacked the in-depth that to me seemed pretty obvious. I think the latter is what happened and that’s where my reaction came from. Unfortunately, I cannot tell whether this comes from town or scum, but maybe their later activity will help me piece it.

I like, however, posts 460 and 462. They come from a townie point of view.

Galron

I don’t want to eliminate

Galron

today.

I can characterise their playstyle as being open - open to suggestions, open to thoughts, open to investigation. And this more often occurs amongst town than scum. They’re fairly relaxed and their pokes toward other players (110, 178, 359) make sense, are logical and warranted. I’m sort of thankful for them, because they generate content from other players for me to analyse. And this is actual content that moves the game forward.

Nonetheless, this cannot also be a townlean. What this slot lacks is more conviction, and stronger reads than posts with few sentences and words. The only longer read by them I found is that on myself (mistakenly labeled as „Cupcake”, although it’s sweet being called „Cupckake”!), in 327. I need more analytical thinking and more effort to comfortably elevate this to a soft townread.

StrangeMatter

I’ve scumhunted them heavily in Newbie 2082 and I was wrong. I remember their playstyle as being generally quite reserved and sitting on the sidelines of the game. Initially, they seemed to be more active pursuing

Jacket

’s predecessor. I wonder why this died out since the player switch, but right now I’m willing to believe that 495 is a genuine explanation.

They haven’t really given me anything to elevate this to a soft townread. So

StrangeMatter

stays in null territory.

Jacket

Does a lot of „poking at things” to see how people react (428). While this is a valid playstyle and I’ve done it too, it’s also quite easy to employ these tactics for show to get townread. The difference between their poking and

Galron

's is that

Jacket

is being more aggressive, plus there haven’t been many conclusions from it so far.

Just like with

CupcakeButterflu

, I don’t like using

RCEnigma

’s mod townfirm to support their ideas (429). Sure,

RCEnigma

is confirmed town and can be trusted, but his position doesn’t give him any special powers to be able to deduce scum better than anyone else. I’m also quite surprised that no one other than me has come after them for saying this, not even

RCEnigma

. In my eyes, this is manipulative, and if one is town and comes from a genuine place, they can find scum reads on their own.

When it comes to the tone of their posts, it’s passive aggressive and skeptical, which can come from both town and scum. I might be choosing to treat it as genuine irritation at the pace of the game, which is fair enough to be fair.

My list of suspects and their list of unreadable players from 482 align. Which could be a good sign, if we pick someone who is on both of our lists and turns out to be scum. I have compiled this readlist before I reached this post and it seems that I’m only being more careful with

StrangeMatter

. Anyway, treating this as something that counters the more questionable stuff they posted.

All in all, I don’t think they warrant a townlean, but also not a scumlean yet. But if this player (and I) are both alive by Day 3 or Day 4, plus the direction they made first - and I partly agreed with is employed and leads us to a bad place, I will definitely get more suspicious.

Scorpious

Of all players in this category this is the one I’m most willing to vote out. It was originally in the category below, but I decided to elevate it.

Scorpious

has been erratic the whole game and played it off as being burnt out. Perhaps this is valid, but this doesn’t exempt them from the responsibilities that townies have, and the consequences they face if their actions seem to stray away from their goal.

Using post numbers rather than content is

extremely weak

an argument, at least to me. It borders on meta and seems like a desperate attempt to hide potentially questionable content.

On one hand, they seem to be trying „gambits” (posts 255, 263), on the other they make posts like this 434, which are unwarranted and, I apologise to say, quite frankly, stupid. I’m not saying the player is, but that post had me literally going „Ehhh?”. They are playing some kind of game, but I’m not entirely convinced I’m playing the same one.

Still, posts like 518 make me want to give them the benefit of the doubt and help them improve. Years of experience can be great to bring into a mafia game, but

Scorpious

so far has only been bringing the boredom and bitterness coming from it.

I like the fact that they’re going after

RH9

and that’s partly why they’re not a full-fledged scumlean. But still, I am really wary of being played. This read has the potential to go up, but is yet to fulfill it.

Ehhh?

RH9

RH9

’s activity has been concerning. For a really active player, they seem to have done very little and almost intentionally made a small impact.

I find their activity to be kinda hilarious, as it is doing the opposite to what is intended. The licking up to certain players was… embarrassing and I felt it in my guts (116, 203, 318). I wasn’t sure if they were even being serious with it. What I think this was, was an attempt to build trust, but the outcome was cringeworthy. They say they need to be quiet 20 (yeah, I know, this was an early post) but then proceed to gather all the attention they possibly can with their later actions.

This totally doesn’t feel like the

RH9

I know from spectating games, who was focused on what was actually happening in the game rather than keeping up appearances.

I am still not convinced if this isn’t some kind of reverse psychology thing, where this has a deeper purpose than one can see on first glance.

He still

did

make some valid points, which I agree with (396), but it doesn’t cancel out the general sentiment.

I have some concerns about voting out this slot (457), so it isn’t my first choice, but if the choice isn’t one of the players below, then I might join the wagon.

Not_Mafia

Policy yeet for being a troll.

Save The Dragons

This slot, in their 34 posts, has given me very little info as to what their line of thinking actually is. Almost as if they’re just shouting random reads without good explanation and running away (190, 248, 250). I am totally not opposed to eliminating them today, should others decide so.

A Dreary Saturday Evening

This would be my first choice to eliminate today, unless it’s one of the two posters directly above them.

They’re an alt, and the player clearly doesn’t have their head in the game.

Their gameplay solely consists of strong opinions on things happening in the game at the particular time (117, 154, 298). Problem is, there is no coherent pattern in it. I can also come over and say „x is town”. „Y is pocketing z”. And then pop away for days. What does it give town? Very little, if anything.

I don’t see why it’s so obvious that

StrangeMatter

is town (117). And you haven’t explained why.

Some things they did lack explanation or even an attempt at an explanation (296, 520).

This is pseudo-gambits, like the one with

Scorpious

, but lacking any kind of impact or input. Plus,

Scorpious

did ultimately give something, while this slot doesn’t care to do even half as much.

All in all, I am completely happy with this being today’s elim.

VOTE: A Dreary Saturday Evening

[Greeting]

A Dreary Saturday Evening

is at E-2 now if the quick vote count in my head is correct.

[Greeting]

I'll believe Greeting has reads when I see them.

The ball's in your court, mister. Anything on my readslist that piqued your interest?

[Greeting]

Greeting's readslist is full of pretty colours an has me on the top - can I just townbin this for effort without reading?

I ask you not to. I spent a few hours doing this and I'd appreciate some feedback. I'm not doing this for it to be just townbinned.

[Greeting]

Okay, I decided to actually read The Big Post.

The first thing I want to respond to is your observation of my 353. There is meta in play, kind of. Like individual meta changes, so does the general meta of the site as a whole. Playing mafia at whatever was Scorpious's time here was different than it is today. So it can be awkward for old players returning and being thrown into a game where a lot of their old ways simply aren't done like that anymore. That is what I meant, because it wouldn't be the first time I was incorrectly reading an old player who rolled town because they were acting "weird" when they were playing the way they used to. But of course, nothing is stopping older players from rolling scum, which is why I said I could be wrong.

While I was reading your analysis of Cupcake Butterfly, I was reminded just how many things he's gotten wrong this game - asking about my thought process on Save The Dragons at the time I didn't have one, missing the fact Greeting said they're a newbie, mixing up who ADSE is talking about... If this were me, this would be scum!indicative for me, since I don't read carefully when I'm scum, and I'm more likely to make factual errors like that. Now, I

know

Cupcake Butterfly is not me, and his playstyle might be completely different than my own, but I can't help but notice.

I strongly dislike the accusation that Jacket is using RCEnigma's "mod confirmed status" to be pushing his own ideas, considering you linked 429 with that. Because that's very much not what's happened there, he's mentioning disliking RH9's reaction to something RCEnigma said. Those are... wildly different. This is the only point in your readslist that genuinely made me worried, but considering it's the only one... I guess I can let it go for now.

I like the point with regards to RH9 - some of his contributions in spectator threads have been much more elaborate and analytical, contrasted here where he's had... 2 or 3 reads, maybe? And I don't buy in what way is the prod timer supposed to be relevant to that

at all

, this is a pretty short game, and it's been moving very slowly.

These are the only things I found I have something interesting to comment on; everything else feels okay. Let me know if you have any specific questions.

Thank you for your feedback. If something comes to my mind, I'll ask.

When it comes to

Jacket

, the misinterpretation on my part might have come from the fact that I wrote

Cupcake Butterfly

's entry first and

Jacket

's second. That is where I clearly noticed

Cupcake Butterfly

relying on

RCEnigma

's thoughts as if he were an oracle. That made me really wary of any other mention which was alike and I might have simply read

Jacket

wrong. Nonetheless, when it comes to

Cupcake Butterfly

, I still believe that this what he meant in 172. The post leaves little to interpret and I stand by what I said with regard to that slot. Of course,

RCEnigma

's contribution to the game should be heard and valued, but in my eyes not more than that of another player, who might be town confirmed in the future upon death.

[Greeting]

OK. I will start acting like I do as a spectator when I get back from school.

Before you read this, I want to point out that I dislike being lectured myself, but I still think I should point a few things out. Do with this what you wish.

My primary suggestion is that, if you're town, start working towards achieving your winning goal. It doesn't seem to me like you're focused on the game very much. The few posts you've made with good observations are, in my eyes, trumped by posts like this:

rh9 and by extension adse are IC approved votes.

Thank you. You are officially the best scumhunter in the world, surpassing Cabd.
(Why did nobody realise how good I am before? I once even defeated the whole of Town, on another site, as SK. I survived to F3 and eliminated the last Town member.)

Speaking about other games in: 194, 196, 197, 198, 200, 381, 385, 390, 412, 418, 549.
Talking strictly about meta in: 317, 456, 544, 545.
Buddying up to other players in: 203, 284, 318.

It is not forbidden to speak about other games, provided they are finished, and meta can sometimes be helpful. But whatever points you were trying to make are completely lost on me. Buddying to other players so openly can be interpreted differently, but to me this is odd to say the least. In my personal experience, D1 is not the correct time to look for allies, especially with so many null reads. This could be seen as scumplay pocketing others by flattery. This is my personal opinion, and views may differ. My prevailing feeling is that your general actions are more distracting than helpful.

[Greeting]

Now, a song from my childhood to lighten the mood. Goodnight!

[Greeting]

@Greeting:

FWIW, someone reading into their predecessor before replacing in like Three did isn't all that uncommon. Of course, talking about it ingame isn't really alignment indicative.

Your read of CB feels like it should be a scumlean, you keep listing a bunch of stuff that comes across negative but then cap it off by linking two posts and saying "they come from a townie point of view". Do those two posts outweigh the other stuff that much? What is it you actually like about them?

I should probably try to actually explain my read on Scorpious in another post, I haven't really agreed with the reasons people had for suspecting him.

Eh. I feel like this is kind of a lame response, I read most of the stuff and just want to go "yeah, fine". I could nitpick the RH9 read but it's not worth elaborating on.

Thanks for reading it.

Now, in regard to

Cupcake Butterfly

, my feelings on him are way too mixed to put him in as a scumlean. On one hand, his play has logic flaws (the one with me and the one with

RCEnigma

- although I can see room for debate on this), on the other he also does make good points and good contributions to the game. Neither outweigh the other really. It's not like the situation with

RH9

, where he also makes a few good points, but the vast majority of his content is quite irrelevant.

I'd honestly rather focus on other players. My reads are for this moment only. My townreads tend to be more static, but all neutral reads could go either way.

[Greeting]

There are (expired on 2021-12-17 02:29:03) left before deadline.

@

Galron

, @

Three

, @

RCEnigma

, @

Not_Mafia

, @

Cupcake Butterfly

, @

ADSE

, @

Scorpious

, @

StrangeMatter

Aka all that haven’t been posting in the last 22 hours except

Nathann

and including

StrangeMatter

whose thoughts on this Day is something I’d like hear as I feel like what they said isn’t enough. Day is nearing towards the end. It’s time for you to post your final reads for D1.

In Newbie Games there has been a push for an elim every Day Phase. I think that eliminating someone today in a larger game still has more advantages than disadvantages, so please elaborate on: wagons currently established, especially

ADSE

(who’s at E-2 I believe), but also others.

[Greeting]

Holy shit. That's Brittney Spears. What happened to her.

The picture is known as a meme called Neyde. It's actually a pretty old one, comes from the period around her infamous nervous breakdown in the late 2000s.

Britney Spears is in a much better place now and is finally free from an abusive conservatorship which was steered by her greedy asshole of a father. The Britney Army (her fanbase group) have been fighting for it for years.

I'm not a fan of her, but I do listen to her music too. I love popculture in general. And I'm honestly happy for her and wish her all the best. Maybe we'll also get some music from her after an almost 6-year hiatus since she's been hinting at that. So glad that she didn't ultimately go on a bad path, like many big artists before her did.

[Greeting]

My top 2 right now are RH9 and SM.. still leany on Nathann . Not willing to vote him beyond those two this day.

RH9 is just so bent on using other games, and while the content in that game comes at snails pace. I still think there is enough to not have to rely so heavily on meta.

What do you think of

ADSE

, who is the leading wagon right now?

[Greeting]

I think their play is apathetic. I feel they are just lazy town.

It’s too easy..

Very lazy and apathetic town, if so. Accusing others of lazy votes on top of that (503).

Does anyone know who their main is? They've said before that this is an alt account (27).

[Greeting]

I think their play is apathetic. I feel they are just lazy town.

It’s too easy..

Very lazy and apathetic town, if so. Accusing others of lazy votes on top of that (503).

Does anyone know who their main is? They've said before that this is an alt account (27).

Fwiw, I agree that was a lazy vote. But I think that’s a vote from
Scum anyway.

Would love to see some real pressure on RH9 and see how they respond using elements from THIS game.

I have a few reservations regarding an

RH9

elim, but I'm still open to it.

But I think I'll wait until morning (which will be in about 8 hours for me) for other players to weigh in. I need to check the vote count too.

[Greeting]

Scorpious

I think is scum. The earlier posts from his ISO pinged me as town, specifically his tone. I'm starting to think this might be a personality thing. His 576 is scummy. He doesn't explain why he thinks that I am lazy town, as opposed to lazy scum. This may be grasping at straws (at least the TMI part) but I would like to hear his explanation. 434 and 443 are also very scummy. The shade on Jacket is for completely dumb reasons. I don't think Scorp genuinely believed that Jacket not reading Salsa's posts was scum indicative. I want to believe his explanation in 518, but I'm not sure.

Firstly, thank you for finally showing up and posting something longer than two sentences.

Scorpious

indeed doesn’t explain his thoughts, but he doesn’t need to. It’s pretty obvious upon first glance of your posts if you ask me.

Sorry,

Scorpious

, I’ll be staying with my vote for now.

[Greeting]

(I mean, with my vote on

ADSE

, since I hinted that I would be reconsidering)

[Greeting]

I really want to highlight the fact that it hasn't gone over my head that

Galron

appeared shortly after my prod, said something completely unrelated to the game, and then left. I really don't like that. Post 584 doesn't cancel that feeling.

[Greeting]

Also, Newbie 2084 (the second game I played with

StrangeMatter

) just ended and

StrangeMatter

won the game as part of the scumteam. That means they can emulate their null-ish and neutral playstyle well as scum too.

[Greeting]

Before asking them to claim?

[Greeting]

[Greeting]

I love your humor.

Another case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hide in this game? That’s what we needed.

[Greeting]

Valentine’s Day came early.

[Greeting]

What a mess. I assume we're left to our own devices to figure out how did each of them die.

If there's a vig, please shoot not_mafia.

That probably explains

Not_Mafia

's death.

And well, the mafia wouldn't kill one of themselves, so

Cupcake Butterfly

must have been the night kill.

So we have at least two vigilantes?

[Greeting]

Do we know how many scums are there? Is it even public knowledge? I'm looking for this information, but I can't seem to find it anywhere.

[Greeting]

C9++

Roleblocker flip means at least three mafia. Possible one of the kills was an SK, rather than a vig.

At least three including or excluding

Galron

?

I think I'll follow my earlier hunch and

Scorpious

' idea of putting some pressure on

RH9

.

VOTE: RH9

[Greeting]

At least three including or excluding Galron?

Including, this setup cannot have 4 mafia.

So then we have two left.

I am open to both your suggestion of voting out

StrangeMatter

and

Jacket

's of voting out

Three

.

But first, I wanna make

RH9

convince me that they're not just fluffing about. I'm finding

Scorpious

slightly more trustworthy after today's flip.

[Greeting]

Three was your second read from the top, what changed?

A lot! Four players are gone. Before his last fluff posts I was fully willing to move

Galron

up to a soft townlean!

The remaining players have moved on my readslist. Now it's much easier for me to start narrowing down the pool of suspects. So far, it's in my mind only. I fear my conclusions may be too early, which is why I want to try testing

RH9

a bit first.

Now, when it comes to

Three

, my early thoughts seem to point that they're in a pool of a few players that's left that I cannot put my foot on. Which is why I'm open to reading more deeply into them this Day, and perhaps, in the end, following

Jacket

into that push.

VOTE: Not mafia

Useless town or scum. I’m ok with not hearing from them the rest of the game.

This reminds me of when I had university classes on History of Law, where they mentioned that sometimes punishment continued upon the culprit's death. Like, in the Middle Ages, the bodies of hanged criminals would be mutiliated and dragged around as supposed retribution for the person's past actions.

[Greeting]

Town better apologize to ADSE in the post game btw. They actually caught scum and got voted out for it for no good reason at all.

What? This is preposterous. Sure, we were in the wrong with this wagon, but I believe they got voted out for pretty valid reasons. I'm not going to apologise.

[Greeting]

Jacket: "how dare you accuse me of being scum with Scorpius"

Also Jacket: immediately coordinates a mislim on ASDE before I can even respond to shut down discussion, then tells the Vig to shoot NM for literally zero reason before we can even get a claim out of him and thus gets our Doc killed

HMMMM I wonder who needs to die today

VOTE: Jacket

N_M deserved to be vigged because he wasn't playing the game. Trying to blame me as if that was antitown is horseshit.

I agree with

Jacket

on this. If I were the vig, I would have shot the hell out of

Not_Mafia

anyway. It's just back luck he was Doctor, that's all.

[Greeting]

*bad luck EBWOP

[Greeting]

Town better apologize to ADSE in the post game btw. They actually caught scum and got voted out for it for no good reason at all.

What? This is preposterous. Sure, we were in the wrong with this wagon, but I believe they got voted out for pretty valid reasons. I'm not going to apologise.

That is scum trying to blame town for miseliminating a player who was a reasonably justifiable day 1 vote. It's not a remotely honest sentiment at all.

I can definitely see a theme of playing on guilt and emotions. Not just there, but also in 691.

[Greeting]

There are cases, in which, town has miseliminated someone for something very petty or just disbelieved them. And I could apologise in this situation. But this is not the case.

ADSE

was playing quite irregularly, made few contributions and used a strong tone to mask the lack of content.

I just looked back at my readslist, and

Three

seemed to have been defending

StrangeMatter

, another player from my null-ish leftover list. It baffles me how can people read them so easily, it really does. It is far easier for me to believe that... they don't.

I still do feel like I need to reread and reevaluate

Three

before I commit to a vote. But their latest contributions look bad to me.

[Greeting]

Yo I don't really want to play yet another game where scum gets caught but town listens to them anyway and acts shocked when we lose. Like this shit seems really obvious to me but it's already becoming clear pushing out obvscum is going to be such a needless struggle.

Town Doc and Mafia Roleblocker are both dead. Vig 100% can't be stopped today. I will just volunteer myself as today's elimination to stop this bullshit in its tracks, Vig just needs to shoot Jacket today. This is just preferable to me at this point, because I really don't want to have to argue for however many days we have that Jacket is obvscum just for me to get mislimmed anyway and then everyone forgets Jacket got caught after I'm dead.

Alright, before you go

Greeting

in Newbie 2084, please explain to me simply why

Jacket

is scum. Because I honestly fail to see it.

[Greeting]

[Greeting]

I think this is time to say halt to this and wait for others to weigh in. I’m not exactly the person to be lecturing others on self-hammer/self-vote play, but I am calling for some restraint here.

Three

’s attempt at that might be townie play, and I can say that, because I’ve done this before in mafia games as town, naively hoping I would be the hero of the game. Spoiler: I wasn’t, and one of the two games where I did this was lost.

[Greeting]

I'm not voting out

RCEnigma

or

Nathann

today.

I'm rather unwilling to vote out

Jacket

or

Scorpious

today.

Scorpious

less so than

Jacket

, but still.

Which leaves me with the preferable elim pool of:

RH9

,

Three

,

Save The Dragons

and

StrangeMatter

.

I get the feeling that

RH9

's way of dealing with suspicion is just ignoring it, unless they're put in a dire situation. This slot has been giving me rather mixed signals.

I think

Three

's reaction to being suspected, albeit overdramatic, was townie in the end. I mean, even if

Three

is not a Newbie, which scum threatens to self-vote past when they have just one vote on them? Honestly though,

Jacket

/

Three

argument screams town vs. town

(or scum vs. scum?)

. I've read parts of it, other then that I just didn't get more out of it than two annoyed and tunnelled townies.

[Greeting]

There's so much to respond to and unpack but I'll have to get to it later when I have time. Right now I just want to go over the concept of this game supposedly being solved.

So for whatever wild reason, I'm being lead to believe that Scorpius, Jacket, and myself are likely all town. That seems to be the consensus right now, correct?

So with have three consensus town reads, and RC as our IC. That leaves only five players left, two of which are scum and one of which is SK. However, we also have a Vig, and likely a Cop as well. If the town reads are correct, we win by claiming today, and even if we decide against claiming the PoE is so ridiculously small that we still just win.

The PoE in this case is Greeting/Looker/Nathann/RH9/STD. Jacket thinks RH9 is town, and I'm fairly certain Nathann is town. Which leaves the hero solve as Greeting/Looker/STD, who all have had suspicion this game as it is anyway. Looker would be my first choice in this case, since I think Strange looks worse today than he did Day 1, he was the most suspicious out of PoE Day 1, and Looker upon replacing in isn't looking particularly townie.

If you guys are actually confident that Scorpius, Jacket, and I are all town, this kind of has to be the route we take here.

Okay, so firstly - who said or even suggested that this game is solved? You say "supposedly" which implies that it has been said before, but I see no such statement from anyone.

Secondly, I am not sure what consensus you're referring to. The only player I definitely think is town is

Nathann

.

Scorpious

and

Jacket

are definitely edging towards the townie side, but I do not include either in my townreads. If you're mentioning a consensus, then please explain to me how you think it came by and what is it exactly.

Finally, when it comes to suspicion on me - the only person who ever majorly suspected and questioned me in this game is

Jacket

. They haven't made it clear what their position on me is as of now. Why would I be included in a list with

StrangeMatter

and

Save_The_Dragons

who both have been suspected by various players? I mean, you're free to point at players who you think is scum as you like, but you're implying that this list is supported by the opinions of others, yet I see no other support.

This doesn't feel like a genuine way of thinking. There's so many holes in this.

[Greeting]

I just noticed

StrangeMatter

has been replaced - extend this to

Looker

, their successor.

[Greeting]

There's so much to respond to and unpack but I'll have to get to it later when I have time. Right now I just want to go over the concept of this game supposedly being solved.

So for whatever wild reason, I'm being lead to believe that Scorpius, Jacket, and myself are likely all town. That seems to be the consensus right now, correct?

So with have three consensus town reads, and RC as our IC. That leaves only five players left, two of which are scum and one of which is SK. However, we also have a Vig, and likely a Cop as well. If the town reads are correct, we win by claiming today, and even if we decide against claiming the PoE is so ridiculously small that we still just win.

The PoE in this case is Greeting/Looker/Nathann/RH9/STD. Jacket thinks RH9 is town, and I'm fairly certain Nathann is town. Which leaves the hero solve as Greeting/Looker/STD, who all have had suspicion this game as it is anyway. Looker would be my first choice in this case, since I think Strange looks worse today than he did Day 1, he was the most suspicious out of PoE Day 1, and Looker upon replacing in isn't looking particularly townie.

If you guys are actually confident that Scorpius, Jacket, and I are all town, this kind of has to be the route we take here.

Okay, so firstly - who said or even suggested that this game is solved? You say "supposedly" which implies that it has been said before, but I see no such statement from anyone.

Secondly, I am not sure what consensus you're referring to. The only player I definitely think is town is

Nathann

.

Scorpious

and

Jacket

are definitely edging towards the townie side, but I do not include either in my townreads. If you're mentioning a consensus, then please explain to me how you think it came by and what is it exactly.

Finally, when it comes to suspicion on me - the only person who ever majorly suspected and questioned me in this game is

Jacket

. They haven't made it clear what their position on me is as of now. Why would I be included in a list with

StrangeMatter

and

Save_The_Dragons

who both have been suspected by various players? I mean, you're free to point at players who you think is scum as you like, but you're implying that this list is supported by the opinions of others, yet I see no other support.

This doesn't feel like a genuine way of thinking. There's so many holes in this.

You know a lot of the questions you ask me could be answered if you just...read the game. This is the second time I've had to say this now.

If you’re going to keep dodging questions claiming they’ve been answered, without even pointing where, then I’ll VOTE: Three. I’ve had a lot of patience for your shady behavior and so far have always been giving you the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps this approach was wrong.

[Greeting]

Can't wait to get voted for telling people to read. I know it's coming.

Yeah. Tragic.

So for whatever wild reason, I'm being lead to believe that Scorpius, Jacket, and myself are likely all town. That seems to be the consensus right now, correct?

So with have three consensus town reads...

Are we reading the same game? I can see Scorpious and Jacket being consensus townreads, but I don't remember you being townread, let alone that being consensus.

Also, why are you supposedly fine with Jacket being considered town here? Why are you trusting his RH9 read?

Maybe there is a parallel universe? I definitely don't remember Three being consensus townread either.

Why does

RH9

agree with

Three

in one post only to attack their "reads" in another? It's a shame that we can't vote out both

RH9

and

Three

at the same time.

[Greeting]

I

t

'

s

e

a

s

y

t

o

m

a

k

e

p

r

e

t

t

y

c

o

l

o

r

s

But it’s

hard

to read every single post in the game and try to make some sense of it.

Still, it is disappointing that it’s not the content of that post that is being discussed here but the post itself or its formatting.

[Greeting]

oh yeah i forgot about that

well he incorrectly sr N_M, myself, and ADSE so how am i supposed to feel about it?

I

t

'

s

e

a

s

y

t

o

m

a

k

e

p

r

e

t

t

y

c

o

l

o

r

s

But it’s

hard

to read every single post in the game and try to make some sense of it.

Still, it is disappointing that it’s not the content of that post that is being discussed here but the post itself or its formatting.

i did discuss the content, you have 3 incorrect scumreads

Oh?

i think galron's town

[Greeting]

VOTE: Three E-1
Unless RCE would like to join me on RH9 and split wagons?

...I think this was hammer and not E-1.

[Greeting]

The votes on

Three

were:

Jacket

,

Three

,

Greeting

(E-2),

Scorpious

(E-1),

Looker

(Hammer)

I didn’t see any posts that would show that any of the players above withdrew their votes.

I think this is a mistake that wouldn’t have happened if vote counts this game were posted regularly, were accurate and reliable. Unfortunately, this is not the case.

[Greeting]

What’s more odd is that the host failed to post vote counts and two players (

Scorpious

and

Looker

) failed to count the votes properly. It is, of course, not their job to do so, but if I were the one to hammer someone, I would have been far more careful.

As for my activity, it is strongly dictated by my day. If I have a busy day at work, I will not check in at work, but past 5PM or in the evening. I often also read the thread on my way to work, but today I didn’t.

I regret my vote on

Three

. I guess that if I arrived there before the hammer, I would have pulled out. Still, I think their last play was very unhelpful for town and their snarky and aggressive reactions only made it worse.

[Greeting]

On a side note, this is also why I prefer the plurality mechanic to an absolute majority. Not only is it more exciting, but also, ironically enough more predictable because people care about the VC far more than with hammers.

[Greeting]

Thanks for the game, y'all!