Open 844 – Cults With Guns [Endgame]

[the worst]

hello friends

[the worst]

has duckie replaced into yet another scum slot

obviously, such is my obligation

[the worst]

Well regardless.

Either Stephen is not Cult Leader, or real Vig will shot him. So can be left alone.


I PROBABLY SHOULD WARN:

INNOCENT CHILD, IF YOU EVEN IN DANGER OF ELIM, CLAIM BUT DON'T REVEAL

. This protects you from danger of converting.

Does it though? Like I've played cult before. Cult strips the ability to IC if it's not fired.

VOTE: Enchant

What? Isn’t that a cult-oriented response? Why would you want the IC to confirm in the first place?

I think Enchant was saying leave room for reasonable doubt, not whatever you just stated.

Lean away from this being a s/s interaction weakly and I think enchant is kinda likely to be town at this point

if i was a dayvig id dayvig datisi (sorry dats ilu)

[the worst]

Fua's nonreaction to my vig claim is highly cult indicative

VOTE: Fua

[the worst]

Okay. For kids.

IC CAN CLAIM. IF HE WAS NOT CCED, HE IS CONFTOWN. THERE'S NO NEED TO REVEAL.

AFTER WE KILL ALL ALPHA-CULTS (OR IF IDK), WE WILL ASK SAID CLAIMED IC TO REVEAL SELF VIA MOD. IF HE DOES REVEAL, GOOD HE IS NOT CONVERTED. IF HE DOESH'T, HE IS CONVERTED AND VANILISED.

Stop trying to prove stupidity.

lol. glorious.

[the worst]

Okay. For kids.

IC CAN CLAIM. IF HE WAS NOT CCED, HE IS CONFTOWN. THERE'S NO NEED TO REVEAL.

AFTER WE KILL ALL ALPHA-CULTS (OR IF IDK), WE WILL ASK SAID CLAIMED IC TO REVEAL SELF VIA MOD. IF HE DOES REVEAL, GOOD HE IS NOT CONVERTED. IF HE DOESH'T, HE IS CONVERTED AND VANILISED.

Stop trying to prove stupidity.

alright I gotta be frank, this feels like being in lylo on day 1

where you're hesitant because it's day 1 and there's no information and then you're also double hesitant because you know if you lim wrong the game is probably over

at the same time though I've realized the situation is probably not going to change, the cultists have no incentive to rock the boat and can probably mostly just lurk and win

VOTE: fua as they fit the category of, just coasting by, you know/? and it is indeed strange that they had zero comment on the fact that the vig claimed they would be shot tonight

ummmm but yeah most of the game is kind of just null to me

90% of the conversation thus far has been about setup and, sure, while town often do talk about setup, scum also commonly talk about setup just to seem townie

Lol, what? How am I coasting by compared to other people, especially on page 3?

Obviously I care if I actually get shot. Literally everyone does. But taking a callout of a target at the start of page 2 seriously and getting defensive over it is just as strange if not moreso. If it was past 26 posts into the game and closer to the end of the phase then I would take it more seriously.

Enchant is just objectively correct here.

Quoting to mull over whether wave/fua is s/s later

[the worst]

I get to decide when defending yourself is scummy

well, no. I said the exact opposite, actually. I believe that defending yourself is not scummy at all

YOU are the one currently arguing to ME that defending yourself is scummy, which is why you didn't want to do it. I'm just trying to understand the rationale of that stance

Good thing I already gave you my argument then.

Here’s a little tidbit to sum it up so you don’t have to go back and read what I’ve posted. Getting defensive over a claim at the top of page 2 with no vote or prior reasoning behind it is scummy in my eyes, and it always has been and always will be regardless of my alignment. Defending myself at E-3 in a game where people can and will quickhammer is not.

I have decided it is probably not

game is 4:1 atp right? if we nail the cultist today we win otherwise we're 2:2 so vig has to hope to hit right?

[the worst]

we kill fua because fua is cultist

did anyone cc vig?

[the worst]

we kill fua because fua is cultist

sorry, my brain remembered the flip wrong. I did know Stephen was dead I'm just not a smart brain smarts.

[the worst]

wavemode and enchant locktown imo

enchant is absolutely town lol
I feel like if wave is cult then theyre p aware of cult's wincon here but I also think, with fua as your partner (they are absolutely a carry) its kind of counterintuitive to realise you're going to need to survive & win that early so like

idk I swing towards wave being town as well

agree with the datisi negative space stuff just beneath this post as well

[the worst]

Oh nvm I did remember the flips right

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??????????

Why Andante dead

Lol.......

[the worst]

??????????

Why Andante dead

ahhh, stephen is pooky, makes sense why that slot was randomly tunnelling me from the start of the game

do i have to bring up how every single time pooky did that, i was town, or...

datisi........

[the worst]

@dats can you give me like 2-3 quotes from wave/fua which struck you as fake? if you want after I'll show you what struck me as unlikely to be partnery

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just like, talk me thru what you're seeing a little

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in fact, before the mod outed them, the only other players who interacted with fua at all were enchant and flea and stephen. and we can already assume stephen is town (or else, he will be shot by the real vig, so assuming he's town is safe for us to do)

this is like, on my mind
I'm not sure if there's all that much merit in the real vig outing if Stephen is scum

I'd rather take a 50%/50% on hitting group scum today for the win (associative reads etc. help) than have a to deal with recruited soloscum tomorrow

[the worst]

mm I usually tend to look for something fairly opposite from that in a bussing situation. keeping in mind

- this would likely be some pre-planned distancing;
- scum have tmi, and pushing someone who you *know* is scum is likely to come across as more confident (rather than less)

I actually felt like wave's questioning of fua felt quite sincere & genuine? He felt like he wanted tp know what they were getting at and by way of reciprocation fua felt like they were trying to win the conversation imo

Lol, what? How am I coasting by compared to other people, especially on page 3?

Obviously I care if I actually get shot. Literally everyone does. But taking a callout of a target at the start of page 2 seriously and getting defensive over it is just as strange if not moreso. If it was past 26 posts into the game and closer to the end of the phase then I would take it more seriously.

this is quite a hefty reaction to wave's original vote and totally I feel like it's attempting to discredit wave as first priority (which is a p intuitivr reaction to bring correctly called out)

I have been a part of many games where early defensiveness is treated as scum-indicative. Why would I suddenly switch up my general playstyle?

And I didn’t have two votes on me beforehand. This is a dumb comparison to make. Votes = Pressure.

This is more evidence of fua trying to ~win~ their convo with wave which doesn't feel congruent with scum theatre coordinated with wave

Anyway, I don’t think I need to explain to you why me being at 3 or 4 votes is a bad thing compared to 0.

ditto, default discrediting tone

I get to decide when defending yourself is scummy

well, no. I said the exact opposite, actually. I believe that defending yourself is not scummy at all

YOU are the one currently arguing to ME that defending yourself is scummy, which is why you didn't want to do it. I'm just trying to understand the rationale of that stance

This reaction feels more like wave is trying to get to the bottom of fua's stance to me rather than trying to undermine or discredit fua (which isnt a very natural stance with tmi). like if this is theatre I think they needed to go into it trying to make fua come out on top and I'm just... Not confident wave needed to do that? He also would've needed to reach this point in the convo and decide that despite fua escalating their tension that he was just going to pull back because his original reasoning for pushing them had kind of fallen by the wayside and like.... I just don't know. I feel like if two reasonably competent scum players decided to dive into theatre on pg3 of the game this is kind of a weirdly lopsided finale? there's really no closure or distance crested I just feel like wave is sincere the more I dwell on it

Here’s a little tidbit to sum it up so you don’t have to go back and read what I’ve posted. Getting defensive over a claim at the top of page 2 with no vote or prior reasoning behind it is scummy in my eyes, and it always has been and always will be regardless of my alignment. Defending myself at E-3 in a game where people can and will quickhammer is not.

This is also weird if it's theatre - fua singlehandedly decided closure is needed and twists the knife in wave's back after he's kinda fizzled out of the convo for like, no reason? It just feels like they want to win the conversation again.

[the worst]

If I had to look for a partner without tprs I'd probably be more anxious of Stephen's interactions with fua (kinda nothingish, then really dramatic around the time of fua's slip/after, then fua talked to them itt). That pings closer to theatre fmpov but Stephen is also likely currently confirmed town

[the worst]

I feel like Flea is caught up on Datisi vs. wavemode rather than looking at the content which datisi and wave are looking at

@Flea, please consider - the last scum is currently solo scum. Anything they say from here out is just them trying to score eliminations to get to the night phase alive. Both alignments are also motivated by desperation after the explosion.

The only stuff that's really meaningful to solving fua's partner is what was said before fua's flip imo

[the worst]

I still really dont see scum motivation in enchant like, at all. It doesn't feel like they were scum with fua in the first half of this game. I dojt really care about their "if I were scum," / pseudo-ogi argument, i just don't think they're scum at all.

Wave, like.... I just don't think he's it really

I guess Flea is my wildcard if riding wave/datisi is faer wincon but there aren't really partner signs.

I think Datisi's opening was p wolfy. Im aware scum datisi is capable of interacting with fua, but the fact he wasn't around to just means he comes out on net zero points. I just feel like Dats has missed a lot of the more nuanced parts of the game and just really cleanly fits the bill of what we're after.

[the worst]

if people are around I'd be super keen to hear if anyone thinks I'm just epic wrong. aorn im probably voting datisi closer to deadline.

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I'll hammer before super long tbh

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The discussion between wavemode and fua feels fake, there's no pressure, no push, and honestly they're missing the point more than stormtroopers at a target range.

this stood out to me, too, and I think it's a sign that this wasn't pre-planned. If it's theatre then it's kind of bad theatre, and. Like. I guess if bad theatre is my weakness I'll accept post-game roasting for WKing scum it just doesn't feel like something that was coordinated at all to me

[the worst]

the more I read this the more I think contrary cases are more geared towards different quirks of personality than like, disagreement on content

this convo is slightly uncomfortable to watch and its not really helping me be sure

I don't think Datisi is interested in trying to like, find a higher truth than the truth he's currently expressing (sorry if you're town dats I'm just not pickin up what youre puttin down this game)

VOTE: Datisi

[the worst]

if I'm wrong I still don't really think it's wave and it's probably just Flea...? I think Flea reads a lot more sincere than Datisi is all

[the worst]

I do hate to be big-headed but I feel like I just trusted my vibe on Datisi & read on you more than I trusted faer read on Datisi

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jks though lol I love to be big-headed

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I know datisi would troll me I'm fuckin calling this bluff

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hes da-teasing us

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I'm gonna stop posting because I think I'm just stuck in a bias circle but I hope someone believes u

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Gg all. Id say the mod mistake changed town win ev from something like 15% to something like 25-30%. Flea definitely positioned faeself well to clutch victory from the jaws of, well, victory. there wasn't enough time for Datisi/wave to reach a sensible conclusion.

Thanks Flea for choosing me to drag across the finish line. <3

[the worst]

I wonder if this would be balanced at 2:9 or 2:11, even?