Open 847 - Trust Fall [Game Over]

[Kuriyama]

hello

[Kuriyama]

how unpleasant

[Kuriyama]

What's your solve right now?

[Kuriyama]

your solve is terrible

[Kuriyama]

i have read only 2 pages

you should try again before i am done rereading everything

[Kuriyama]

I did not mean to be mean

i think inaccurate is a better adjective than terrible

[Kuriyama]

mm i agree with one of those !

[Kuriyama]

you are very cool ydrasse

cooler than monkey

[Kuriyama]

after reading 4 pages I am almost certain norwegian+pavowski is the solve

[Kuriyama]

the nervous energy is off the charts

[Kuriyama]

his signal to noise ratio is quite high and I don't think he actually believes any of what he's posted so far

[Kuriyama]

i think pavo is trying to pocket meuh

[Kuriyama]

still on page 5 so far

[Kuriyama]

finished page 7

still maintaining Pavowski/Norwegian as the team

[Kuriyama]

Enchant is such a sweetie pie

[Kuriyama]

HEM is a monster

[Kuriyama]

maybe I'm confbiased but I hate every post of Nor/Pavo i've read so far

[Kuriyama]

perhaps hate is too strong of a word

I mean I see it much more scum them makes the posts they are making rather than town them

[Kuriyama]

Nor/Pavo messing with Enchant on Page 7/8 is kind of ick

[Kuriyama]

This is like one of those Japanese dating shows I love to watch

[Kuriyama]

I had a good think on this on my morning run and you've just about sealed Enchant never leaving whether you're town or scum here, and I don't think scum!monkey burns their partner like that, so you are probably just town here

weird for Pavo to say this to Enchant without offering trust/assurance

feels like pocketing

[Kuriyama]

trust me

Yeah no, I'm not ready to lock in yet and I have this funny feeling you might not reciprocate

pavo is very sneaky

[Kuriyama]

This game might be the first time in my life when my trust issues give me an advantage.

a new challenger enters the game

[Kuriyama]

mmm i really should not join any more games of this setup

Why so?

once again frustrated

like how i view the setup and want to play it is at great odds with the way others do

so true

[Kuriyama]

chavela if you trust me i will walk out in this game with you

this monkey is so bad

[Kuriyama]

U giving me major chills right now.

kind of fake

[Kuriyama]

This is what i feel is happening right now:

- Scum PT -
HEM: Shit Enchant, we screwed up with our strategy of you faking trust and me voicing paranoia about it, let's just both spam as much as possible.
Enchant: You got it bub, i'm a master of spamming posts and making a lot of noise in the game.

there's no way nor thinks this

[Kuriyama]

i have a dream

that i will hold the record for the most trust one can have in a game of trust fall

and i shall have this

he doesn't care for your love

[Kuriyama]

Boy from Norway, do you even scum read me?

More that i really hated what you were doing, but then your later posts looked better.
Close to null right now, can see u go both ways.

this is incredibly fake

[Kuriyama]

I am approaching around 95% certainty on Nor-Scum and ready to take him to 1v1 endgame

[Kuriyama]

I really don't see how this could be town!him

[Kuriyama]

enchant come here bb, you can be town for now. let's solve the game! <3 <3 <3

[Kuriyama]

So i'm a bit sus of pairing players like Enchant that have not behaved townie whatsoever because if they flip scum then all we can do is give a big shrug, and tbh it goes both ways too. If he's town it's not gonna help me, it's not informative. It's just a big old "whatever".

this is just so bad

[Kuriyama]

Like I'm a little irked by Norwee's posts here tonight but I dunno if I can scumread that because ... Laying low in this game is the opposite of a path to victory for scum

this is scum pavo talking about scum norwe

[Kuriyama]

I mean there are 3 players with <5 posts right now +Enchant whose play just mechanically makes them more likely scum than not, but somebody is gonna have to trust some of these slots eventually if we're gonna win this so...?

like what is this?

[Kuriyama]

these are not townie thoughts

[Kuriyama]

saying that lurking is towny makes it not towny anymore because it suddenly becomes a publicly known wifom good job dude

Is this sarcasm, it feels like sarcasm

!?!?!?

[Kuriyama]

Pavowski seems trustworthy

i am glad she is no longer here

[Kuriyama]

for example my reads are

pavowski
norwegianboyEE,
meuh, andante, greeting, tris,
chavela, bugspray

what's yours

[Kuriyama]

like if you really want a readslist it'd be something like

meuh
norwegianboy
pav

tris, greeting

humaneatingmonkey

andante, bugspray

enchant

im dead

[Kuriyama]

>.< am i not allowed to discuss reads now?

bugspray, if i find out you're scum and you're weaponizing the "neurotypical" angle to pocket shiki and advance in the game, i will hate you forever.

this probly comes from town

but it is kind of disgusting

[Kuriyama]

monkey/chav probly t/t imo

[Kuriyama]

you know i do not work this way

like c'mon

i know but give me your version i guess. it's very hard to parse what you really think, because just moments ago, i thought you were townreading me.

I like this Chavela/HEM drama.
Not as in i’m an sadist that enjoys suffering, but as in i think this will help my reads as it appears genuine.

like wtf?

[Kuriyama]

norwe 427-431 are awful

[Kuriyama]

fencesitting nonsense

[Kuriyama]

Hot take, HEM/Chavela town.
Bugspray scummy?

427-> here is very bad progression

i think he is trying to salvage the situation by shading bugs

[Kuriyama]

Could Greeting and Tris come in here and towntell or scumtell plz, thanks.
Oh and idk if i trust Meuh yet, they feel smooth and make nice beautiful thesaurus posts, but are we actually sure they are town indicative and not just pretty?

fake busywork

[Kuriyama]

Even so i still feel like you could be town, and that makes me mad. :/

weird signal

[Kuriyama]

I love fast paced games, i can't really stand still for 5 days.

Risk was not big anyway.

why did you decide that the risk was not big?

2/9

I AM RUSSIAN RULETTE CHAMPION.

Would you accepy if someone else trusted you today?

ridiculous question

[Kuriyama]

Not going to dive too far into Monkey/Chav except to say it gives me some +Chav vibes and some -Monkey vibes

Tonally Chav is consistent and the resistance/paranoia around Monkey feels fine

Monkey seems fixated on this slot above several others ... maybe it's because Chav is engaging more than most (and they do seem to have history)
But fixating on one slot kinda ... doesn't make sense as a town play

Like, Monkey has stated intent to stay on the island as designated solver, so, why so determined to get a townread from Chav?

Motivation as scum makes more sense here ... like ... I could see the scumchat saying "If I can pocket Chav that would set up x, y, and z"

That being said I still lean towny on Monkey from general play and I'm feeling pretty towny on Chav too

it does not feel like pavo is comfortable or wants to be here very +++ scum post

[Kuriyama]

the reason 468 is +++scum is because it feels like pavo spent time writing it in a manner that is overly explanatory and artificial

[Kuriyama]

my eyes are tired

[Kuriyama]

I am stopping at page 22

I am fairly certain Pavo/Norwe is the team solve

good night

[Kuriyama]

Actually screw it i don’t have the patience to deal with a game that has this type of player.
I can already see their reply: "Yes this is exactly how scum!Norwee replies, i know his play blah blah."
Fuck this.

[Kuriyama]

your solve is terrible

hm

what information were you working off of

before you read the game?

the VC on that page and the first two pages

[Kuriyama]

hm

who do

ydrasse and kuriyama

think are the very most likely non-me non-them towns right now

and why i guess

mmm

enchant
hem
bugs?
norw?
ydrasse?

[Kuriyama]

i would ship those 6

[Kuriyama]

hm

who do

ydrasse and kuriyama

think are the very most likely non-me non-them towns right now

and why i guess

mmm

enchant
hem
bugs?
norw?
ydrasse?

i mean,

if you really feel this way then advocating for humaneatingmonkey to accept enchant’s trust offer and for no other trusts to be offered today makes the most sense yeah? though i do not really understand why you think enchant is particularly towny? like sure one can easily say enchant would make that trust offer as town potentially but enchant would definitely make that trust offer as mafia and since doing so enchant has simply expressed displeasure with proceedings

like i am not hard scumreading enchant

but i would definitely advocate against anyone else offering a trust to enchant - like if anyone really strongly believes that enchant is town then they should probably want humaneatingmonkey to accept enchant’s offer

though i still have various worries about monkey i think monkey accepting enchant’s proposal is preferable to anyone else proposing to enchant

I am not going to make anyone trust anyone else because I can always be wrong

I am transparent about who I townread and if any of them want to trust each other I am happy with that.

If any of them want to trust outside my list, I am not going to be upset or anything? Everyone has their own opinions.

[Kuriyama]

and if there’s reason for townreading humaneatingmonkey beyond ‘hasn’t accepted trust offer’ i guess i am interested in that as well

I think the way he is intransigent towards you felt kind of townie to me

[Kuriyama]

like it’s probably slightly +scum for enchant in and of itself that none of the players saying ‘enchant is town!!’ have acted on ‘maybe i will propose’

because town!enchant would probably be perceived by mafia as more likely to accept mafia proposal

which is part of why everyone saying ‘enchant town’ should probably be looked further into also

getting messy thinking about this

this isn't necesarily true because hem can always accept enchant in response to a mafia proposing to enchant.

[Kuriyama]

hi!!

hi !!!!

[Kuriyama]

the way it feels like everyone is more or less synching up with like

who is scummy

feels good

or we r all wrong : )

[Kuriyama]

also;

shiki is a shining river filled with cities

this is so magical.

I miss Anya

[Kuriyama]

i almost offered a trust there to be silly. a little funny

i also think if kuri is scum they could probably do some damage!

I guess it makes sense to take me out early then

[Kuriyama]

exciting

[Kuriyama]

i will probably run around screaming for a bit and then take pavo to f2

[Kuriyama]

duckie is so charismatic

[Kuriyama]

you and duckie would be cute together

[Kuriyama]

we need shiki to be the voice of reason before I ship everyone off the island

[Kuriyama]

i think the duck hates me. wants me dead

he is just playing hard to get

he adores you

[Kuriyama]

I thought Enchant was flirting pretty well with HEM for a while there

[Kuriyama]

Could it have been flirty pocketing?

[Kuriyama]

riveting

[Kuriyama]

Hi Pavo!!!

[Kuriyama]

which is consistent with earlier response to humaneatingmonkey but not really consistent with more recent ‘game is all about player agency everyone should do what they want’

I feel guilty about Norwee replacing out :<

[Kuriyama]

who would you like to leave first?

[Kuriyama]

this might be a really dumb reason but i kind of townread enchant for being not funny

[Kuriyama]

I don't get your point or bugs math

[Kuriyama]

i think bugs was just trying to show enchant was wrong by math but the math doesn't make sense to me.

also it does make sense to use math that does not assume knowledge of bugs alignment since bugs should be using math from pov of enchant as enchant does not know bugs alignment assuming enchant is town

[Kuriyama]

i dont see why scum!bugs even tries to dissuade town!enchant from trusting bugs in the first place if that is what you are saying bugs tried to do?

[Kuriyama]

ok but now you think enchant is town so ?

[Kuriyama]

shiki if you are really worried about Enchant!scum you should pick 2 people to leave because we are running out of time

[Kuriyama]

not everyone will be online on a Sunday.

good night

[Kuriyama]

hm, current thoughts on kuriyama?

i thought they were pretty townie

bullying someone to replacement isn't top-tier trust fall scum play

I don't think I bullied him that much tbh I just said I scumread him heavily?

It's not like I can yeet him or anything

[Kuriyama]

tunneling someone as scum in this setup is quite bad

[Kuriyama]

scum tunneling on town is borderline suicidal esp since my tunnels usually end with "i want to f2 this person" and that's strictly losing as scum

[Kuriyama]

I would only break your heart

[Kuriyama]

soulread, i don't think they're playing a scumgame.

i'd also be really sad if they accepted regardless of their alignment so i have decided to not

oh I would never accept it so you don't to worry about that !

[Kuriyama]

but it's still minus ev because you will not be able to offer trust to anyone else in case we need you to leave today so don't pls

[Kuriyama]

kuri/hem/chavela, would you consider this game significantly easier to solve with my flip or no? i don't really have a sense for it yet.

pedit: knew i could trust u kuri <3

[Kuriyama]

I think Enchant would accept you

[Kuriyama]

increases enchant's town equity a lot, which makes this convo more interesting

[Kuriyama]

if you assume monkey/enchant/duckie T/T/T

if Duckie trusts Enchant, and Enchant accepts Duckie, we have Monkey nearly conftown after this.

which is better than default, which is Monkey/Enchant leave, Duckie at unknown!townread

[Kuriyama]

are you suggesting norwee was replacing out anyway and that was theater

no? nothing about norwegianboyee’s reaction,

it just didn’t feel like in the catchup posts that the end result wasn’t already known to kuriyama

like it felt like kuriyama was getting to where they were going

whereas you’d expect town to not know where that was

like if it’s a game where the map is all clouded over and is revealed as you explore you’d expect there to be a lot of steps off the direct route

but here it felt more like kuriyama might have known the path to me

[Kuriyama]

ok

[Kuriyama]

the order of my list doesn't really matter to me

[Kuriyama]

like if i say i am fine with these 6 people leaving

uh the order they leave in does not really matter to me

[Kuriyama]

define game actions?

like in terms of what would happen if you put their reads into actions

there isn’t much difference between you being scum or not until later

only potential benefit for scum kuriyama

as i assume norwee replace didn’t vault you to the top of the town list

?

i dont think there is a benefit for scum me to say "these 6 people r probly town and they should leave"

[Kuriyama]

i'm also secretly starting to townread meuh. but i'm not happy about it.

pedit: asdfghjkl;'

disagree with this but happy to be wrong again

[Kuriyama]

im currently at:

scummyish: pav/meu
null: greets
kinda townie: every1 else

[Kuriyama]

trust kuriyama

thx dear

[Kuriyama]

i am leaning towards accepting unless any1 has v strong feelings about y!scum?

also i think chavela/duckie just wins the game most times

[Kuriyama]

andante

[Kuriyama]

mmm which posts of andante's gave you this impression?


we have time don't worry - I am not in a rush : )

[Kuriyama]

I don't get that impression from her posts on that page?

It feels more like she is confused about what she is supposed to be doing and has no plan which is somewhat typical of her.

Offering to trust you without really knowing whether you would accept feels more likely from town!her ?

[Kuriyama]

mmm ok but did you know norwegianboy has a history of ragetilting and replacing out when pushed as town?

[Kuriyama]

he is very sensitive

[Kuriyama]

I have only seen him do it as town

[Kuriyama]

I would feel very icky about being cleared based on a creepy ogi replacement tell. Can we focus on how towny my play is instead? u_u

sorry dear

you feel kind of townie and mindmeldy to me as well by play

[Kuriyama]

kuri/anyone else do you think meuh's case is scummy or misguided or etc.?

I feel like it coming so fresh off the enchant flip (and being the first piece of like, actual game related content in their iso) should tell me something. its also 5am and I feel quite ill so brain not firing.

I think it isn't very convincing

there are a lot of words but none of them feel like something that is very persuasive

[Kuriyama]

I don't see why scum!y decides to trust me because ydra is very good at strategy and it just doesn't help her win condition to send a trust my way when Shiki wants me in f4?

[Kuriyama]

i guess what i am saying is

if from scum!meuh's pov

kuri-ydra and shiki-duckie is a town!win

duckie is the only person she can really attack in that group of 4

so it feels like an obligatory thing for her to do.

[Kuriyama]

the vibes r great

[Kuriyama]

oh boy

phew

kind of a weird reaction if you think duckie!scum

[Kuriyama]

im kind of thinking about trusting duck to end the game because if duck/me flip t/t then ydra should be clear since she couldve accepted duck and ydra/shiki would end the game

[Kuriyama]

I'm really exhited for chavela to come back and be like "..... what have you all done" but actually be pleased about it

teeehee such a bad duck

[Kuriyama]

Meuh's so charming <3

[Kuriyama]

the chain of love grows longer

[Kuriyama]

Why has nobody trusted Chav today? It's the replacement trio playing footsie with each other which is ... interesting but

because it doesn't move the game state forward in any way and is thus useless and a waste of a trust?

She is universally townread, said she doesn't want to leave yet, and mechanically more or less conf'd by HEM trusting her.

If she wants to leave the game, she can just trust whoever she wants and tell that person to trust her and she will leave.

It seems kind of pointless to send a trust towards her.

[Kuriyama]

Greeting, looks like you have town!Duck and scum!Meuh

Do you think you're getting off the island or is it gonna be you and me and the scumteam?

who is the scum team you are talking about?

[Kuriyama]

Decent chance of the worst, greeting, bugs, Meuh

Gut is telling me there's one in the replacements but probably not two, and duck would check that box

it's weird because you said meuh is not one of them but now you are saying she is?

[Kuriyama]

what posts are you scumreading duckie for?

[Kuriyama]

bugspray makes a great point

[Kuriyama]

% chance on meuh/the worst distancing?

meuh flipping from duckie!scum to i want to trust duckie doesn't feel like s/s theatre

[Kuriyama]

the worst expressing worry about ydrasse and then offering her a trust very shortly thereafter is comparable?

I don't think he expressed worry about Ydra the way Meuh "cased" duckie.

Just skimming iso it seems like more of a poe thing than actual focused suspicion?

[Kuriyama]

what is your read of duckie right now?

[Kuriyama]

well shiki if the team is ydra/kuri, then ydra is the only one of us that can leave as duckie is trusted to her, I can't exactly press leave on my own partner

[Kuriyama]

Meuh what's your read on duckie right now? Do you still want to leave with him?

[Kuriyama]

it's not actually possible for mafia in my poe to do anything in this game state though

[Kuriyama]

if me/ydra are town, which I have every reason to believe she is as she has not left with duckie,

the mafia are looking at a game state with shiki(utr) and 3 townies in 5.

if mafia try to leave by trusting a townie, that townie gets elevated and can leave with shiki instead - ending the game.

if mafia try to convince shiki to leave with other mafia by trusting m->m, it outs the partner.

it is kind of like zugzwang in chess? they really have to get town to make a mistake if my gamestate read is correct.

[Kuriyama]

well shiki if the team is ydra/kuri, then ydra is the only one of us that can leave as duckie is trusted to her, I can't exactly press leave on my own partner

sorry that's not what i meant communication hard

if staying in the game, the purpose would be to leave in a better situation then the one already present,

so that situation would likely involve finding a better pairing

but that better pairing would have to be a better pairing for ydrasse?

as ydrasse would be immediately suspicious if you found the better pairing and flipped mafia

so the upside of ydrasse staying is,

???

ya know

mm yes this is true but I am not so fancy when I play mafia.

[Kuriyama]

well I am more certain of my alignment than duckie's alignment so me leaving with ydra is strictly better than duckie leaving with her

if you would like me to stay I am happy to stay with you

[Kuriyama]

I guess if there is s in duckie/ydra it is better for me to maybe stay and figure it out with you rather than leave you trying to piece the puzzle together : )

[Kuriyama]

well I am more certain of my alignment than duckie's alignment so me leaving with ydra is strictly better than duckie leaving with her

if you would like me to stay I am happy to stay with you

nono sorry

i mean

why do you think you offering the worst

is preferable to ydrasse accepting the worst?

is what i am asking?

functionally I guess they are the same.

I guess I just feel worse if I told ydra!town to accept duckie and duckie turned out to be mafia - whereas if I offer duckie and he turns out to be scum I will not feel as bad.

[Kuriyama]

what happens if i go rogue accept the duck is town kuri and chav pair up and game ends

anyone like this concept

this would be kind of lit

[Kuriyama]

like kuriyama said would put the puzzle together with me if necessary and it currently feels like i am over here combining all of the puzzles and removing the pictures with acetone

it would be challenging and fun to solve the game with you if one of ydra/duckie is mafia

[Kuriyama]

so exciting

[Kuriyama]

mm how about me/ydra leave

if T/T

then you/meuh leave

if meuh is mafia, implies scum in pavo/bugs

Duckie/Greeting leave?

[Kuriyama]

mm how about me/ydra leave

if T/T

then you/meuh leave

if meuh is mafia, implies scum in pavo/bugs

Duckie/Greeting leave?

mmm 0% partner between ydrasse/meuh

can’t say same about you/meuh

uh
if i am partnered with meuh dont i just walk out with ydra regardless of what you want ? :<
and kinda confused why you think bugspray offer would be +partner with meuh

[Kuriyama]

if i am partnered with meuh i can just accept ydra and not care about what you want? Just making sure you are ok with Meuh leaving with you and the next steps to take.


Meuh being mafia would imply scum in her askers since she is not leaving with either of them? more likely imo she is just town atp.

[Kuriyama]

I like ydra>?

the result is more or less the same

[Kuriyama]

so do you want me to accept b4 duckie gets back or wait for our favorite duck?

[Kuriyama]

is it time for us to dip?

[Kuriyama]

i can dip with meuh if that's what shiki really wants to happen

this game feels somewhat solved so either smooth sailing or um lol

[Kuriyama]

mmm ok fingers crossed

trust Ydrasse

no twilight trolling me pls dear <3

[Kuriyama]

also think Greeting moved up a bit with his posting.

Kind of think Pavo feels scummy and disjointed >.>

[Kuriyama]

gg thanks for moderating prism!

sorry again Norwee :>

[Kuriyama]

I liked the singular trust per player - great change from the original setup.

Also felt the deadlines were nice and short for keeping the action pretty lively.

[Kuriyama]

I am actually quite nice if you give me a chance

I changed my mind about your slot in D/C and I probably would've changed it here too possibly maybe.

You are right about taking care of yourself above all else - I will endeavour to be less aggressive in the future.