Open 854 | Eurybia's Curse | Game Over!
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truly an important moment in MS historyIn post 2845, marcistar wrote:On feburary 1st 2021 the fire nation attacked-
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Yeah I looked around a bit and GL has the best put together arguments against Pav but they're a bit spread out, + there's some things specific to him about Pav.In post 2850, Coral wrote:I think that looking at GL's posts about him would be useful, although it's split up across a bunch of posts. I don't know if there's really a consolidated case anywhere
Kinda hard to point anywhere as a good place to look-
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In post 2853, Faker wrote:holy guacamole
Partnered gg ezIn post 84, Pavowski wrote:Holy guacamole what an entrance-
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HELLOIn post 2870, Faker wrote:meuh whatchu thinkin' champ
Spoiler:
Tbh I like 795 in conjunction with 796
Like to me the way those posts flow feels right
232 is the confidence there actually scummy?
590 but is Coral scum? You sorted Coral as town so I'm kinda confused how this makes Cakez scum at all. If he's frustrated at people voting a player you townread, isn't that good?
Also imo frustration tends to be NAI so I'm unsure what the point here is or if you're just mentioning it
592 is like meh I guess? Don't feel strongly there
I guess the progression from 597 -> 598 is a bit iffy?
Cakez generally has had good vibes to me and tbh I don't find these points against him particularly compelling.
I do find it interesting Cakez hasn't been thrown in the same pile as Gamma/Marci/Fruit/Pav because considering his gameplay he kinda should?
But I can't say it worries me enough to change my read there-
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I guess they could have a more appealing escape lined up? Perhaps already on the wagon?In post 2898, Coral wrote:
They can escape immediately after, thoughIn post 2895, Isis wrote:i mean, Coral is town
marci has a consistency issue if she just joined the royal wagon, right? analyzing that has been on my head.
skitter definitely can't lolhammer
Faker could be scum doing due diligence then hammering this
I think the offwagon scum thing clears TUF but like, we already knew that-
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There could also be 2 on 1 off though right?In post 2906, Coral wrote:I'm not sure if any of the people currently on the wagon would be more likely to want to escape than any combination of 2 off wagon-
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Goooooooooood morning!
Was expecting to get cleared but ig we don't always get the party of our dreams
2887 really shook me tbh and it made Pav's alignment kinda click in my mind. I'm aware it's a bad thing to do but I felt paranoid about my reads of the game being too simple and it scrambled me up a bunch
Pav being scum felt too simple despite him being scummy which is largely why I decided to vote on Fruit. I would've switched my vote off of him earlier but I was committed to the royalty plan and so around that time I just didn't care for moving my vote
and like I'm glad I supported it since this happened
I mean just looking at this I feel like limming both Faker/Marci just winsIn post 1660, Ydrasse wrote:
Faker still feels town from the way Gamma played but I need to take a look at the arguments about her EoD play. Like I've read the arguments but I haven't really absorbed them properly if that makes any sense? My 5 am brain is not ready for that
Marci I feel like could be scum at this point because I think something she likes to do as scum is just rely on making a bunch of posts that seem tonally good and almost too scummy to be scum while just lacking actual content. Which checks out here.
I think there's at least 1 town in Coral/Skitter.
imo it's likely just both Beat wagoners or 1 Beat wagoner + 1 Ari wagoner
Maintaining my gutread on Cakez being town, though I should probably give him a second glance today
Ig limming Faker and Marci is less appealing to you all because I'm not conf but I think it just wins like 90+% of the time-
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Don’t discuss ongoing gamesIn post 3050, marcistar wrote:
remember when u said im focused on shading teammates without acting on it? where is that here?In post 3047, Meuh wrote:Marci I feel like could be scum at this point because I think something she likes to do as scum is just rely on making a bunch of posts that seem tonally good and almost too scummy to be scum while just lacking actual content. Which checks out here.-
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Why?
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I thought you were referring to a specific comment, nvm thenIn post 3068, marcistar wrote:
??In post 3063, Meuh wrote:
Don’t discuss ongoing gamesIn post 3050, marcistar wrote:
remember when u said im focused on shading teammates without acting on it? where is that here?In post 3047, Meuh wrote:Marci I feel like could be scum at this point because I think something she likes to do as scum is just rely on making a bunch of posts that seem tonally good and almost too scummy to be scum while just lacking actual content. Which checks out here.
u literally told me this many times before what-
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My whole math class was looking at me... it was embarrassingIn post 3075, Isis wrote:Few people would be creative enough to lie about irl laughter even tho it'd be like, allowed in a mafia game
Genuinely the most intense laughter I have had in a while
Spoiler: Art-
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If neither of them are scum I'd need to reconsider my whole mafia careerIn post 3073, Isis wrote:The sum of all reasons may be higher for Marci, although it's possible both Marci and skitter are scum.
Pedit: Yup yup
Pav just did basically nothing that felt town indicativeIn post 2055, Meuh wrote:On an individual basis I also feel iffy about him.
I don't recall ever reading a Pav post and thinking "yeah, this was probably written by a townie"; which I've felt with I'd say most of the players in this game, even other people I do or have scumread. Like I would have to dig a bit for it, but I feel like I've had moments with people like GL, Gamma or you in that way. Not really with Pav.
Also looking for this post I ctrl + Fd in my ISO; but I was accidentally in my ISO from a game I played a while ago. I spent a solid 2 minutes wondering why no results were showing up
I LOVE MATH
it's my favourite subject and the one I have the best grades in rn
Though I haven't gotten my exam result for it yet so it may not be anymore...
Hopefully it still is!!-
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Wait like voting Marci?In post 3083, skitter30 wrote:but then spent forever sitting on marci
I don't recall voting Marci ever-
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Uncertainty on Pav (felt too simple/too good to be true) + me townreading a majority of players (thus narrowing the POE) + Fruit generally having been neutral for me as of that timeIn post 3087, Aristeia wrote:i dont understand why you moved to tuf after pav go to 5-
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Pretty sure my vote (and Beat's reaction to the vote) played a significant role in making Pav!scum a more relevant ideaIn post 3090, skitter30 wrote:whta do u think it's subsequent impact on the game is ?
Spoiler:
I guess that also means it fueled the Beat mislim because of that associative? I know the idea of them being scum together also motivated my vote significantly-
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It's just not a play I make 300 posts into the game on my partner but ig that's not really that compellingIn post 3118, skitter30 wrote:your initial vote was right before the sundress party + gamma wagon thing, i don't think your vote was pivotal at all
he didn't get flipped day1
by the time day2 came around quite a few people were scumreading him, and you spent quite a while offwagon while it was happening
like pointing to a vote made 100 pages ago / early day1 as anti-partner-y when you stayed offwagon while the wagon was building day2 is kinda ?-
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I stand by this, though at this point Skitter flips scum more often than Marci or Faker do as individuals imo.In post 3186, GuiltyLion wrote:"lim through the Beat wagon and we win"
Pedit: why did the wagon on the townie not gain momentum then, instead of a brand new wagon forming?
If scum!Cakez is true I would expect the wagon on me to have gained momentum there but idk-
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Okay so I took a shower and thought about stuff
So Skitter’s play today feels terrible. But I feel like I haven’t properly taken the setup or what the mafia actually need to accomplish into account?
Like I’ve been practically thinking of this day just as “maf need to get a mislim and they win” and while I always knew that was inaccurate it’s not something I questioned extensively
So like, the mafia to both escape and it’s gg.
In this respect Skitter’s play isn’t really sustainable ig? Like it doesn’t help her long term even if she gets me mislimmed
Tbh I forgot about escaping as a mechanic when analyzing people’s play as of late
But like the scummiest mafia member can just… leave.
So now I feel as if there’s likely going to be 1 mafia assigned to 1 role, and one to the other. Both because of the escaping mechanic and the tougher limpool tomorrow (1/4 instead of 2/6), there’s likely gonna be a harsh push from one mafia to just get a townie straight out of here, then they just escape
and then the plan for day 2 is just for the second one to hide in a crowd of less ostentatious players and live?
But if that’s the angle the mafia are playing for I’m not really sure how to look at people’s play today
Like whatever the mafia’s trying to do with who they want to escape now or later it’s tough to actually consider fully
So my mind’s clearer on what scum are actually aiming for here and what to look for but also who the scum are is less clear ???
This gamestate just feels really tough to gauge who’s scum and who’s town in
So ig I should look more back on d1/d2 to parse scum?
Blegh-
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Yeah. This is why I didn't unvote Skitter, should've explicitly said so at the endIn post 3198, Coral wrote:Spoiler:
I'm not really following your train of thought here. If skitter is scum and you're town, then skitter can push for your elim and then escape. That accomplishes her goal and does help her long term. It does depend who her partner is if that would be the strategy they would likely go for, but I think it's possible.
It sounds here like you're saying her play looks surface level scummy to you, but based on setup considerations, it's not as likely to come from scum. I don't see what's bringing you to that conclusion, though.
Okay I think I didn't really make this clear but here's how I felt about Skitter's alignment as I thought about this all
At the start I scumread her -> realizing scum need 2 mislims, it feels less likely to play aggressively -> therefore Skitter!town seems likely -> remembering someone gets to escape -> scum will likely go with an aggressive and a passive player, to secure their wincon -> so, Skitter's play could fit within the ideals of the mafia
I'm still leaning scum on her at the moment, it's more my perspective on the way scum could and would play today that's changed.-
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She's like 62.4% scumIn post 3199, Aristeia wrote:@Meuh what's your read on Marci rn?
I do think that looking at associatives is more productive in sorting her than just trying to read her on vibes. and those associatives aren't great iirc?
I've flipped back and forth on her vibes a bunch this game and at this point it feels pointless-
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This post reminds me about the point I made at the bottom, and I still find Skitter's lack of engagement with Pav shocking. At a second glance she did mention him in 193 (which ctrl + f didn't catch because she called him pawvowski) but I think she actually just does not mention him again until 1691.In post 3215, Aristeia wrote:In post 2313, Meuh wrote:Spoiler:
-It's even worse for Skitter, who also barely mentions him. From what I can see she literally didn't talk about him until 1691, which is impressive.
1953 once again throwing a question about Pav in a larger post, never ever making Pav the focal point of any of her posts.
I also find that 1691 and like the way scum defends their partners, especially considering her previous mention of him is saying she doesn't like him (193). Skitter's progression on Pav is a scumlean very early on thrown into a pile of other reads. Then she questions the push on Pav, but in a "I don't get it" way more than in a "I think Pav is town" way which I don't like. and the way she words it with "wrong place to be focusing" makes her stance on the Pav wagon being bad hinge on her scumreads on other players. Feels like she's using her scumreads on a multitude of other people as where to shift the blame, instead of taking a comprehensive stance on Pav.
Like 2 posts before in 1689 she makes her vast amount of scumreads known, so that when she has to acknowledge Pav finally, she can make those scumreads the central point of her read on Pav.
She then questions GL's preference for Pav in 1948. (Also how does one SR 2/3 of the game but not Pav???)
...and then follows it up with 1949. She makes sure to discredit GL (who is pushing for Pav to get limmed), while making the focus of this his push on Marci, rather than the push on Pav. and like why isn't she also going after him for the push on Pav? She's making it pretty clear she doesn't like the push, but makes sure to keep it adjacent to the actual focus of her posts.
2066 wooooooooo Pav is the focus of this post! Oh but she still takes a vague stance on him and alludes to the Beat wagon instead. Because all of her stances on Pav have to mention the Beat wagon in some way to keep her read on Pav reliant on it instead of a read on him actually existing. Like Skitter is still not reading Pav, this is not reading. It's just "wagon kinda bad" and "idk this reminds me of Beat..." which I find incredibly suspicious.
and then she decides to try it out in 2075? Skitter I'd love your explanation for this vote because I looked before it and I still have no clue why you placed it there? Just cause Ari brought it up? Like you've called the wagon bad, Pav is seemingly not in the 2/3 of the game you suspect and you place your vote there??? and what about GL, who you apparently had bad feelings for his push on Marci and was the one pushing Pav earlier? Like if you wanted to go somewhere with Ari why not pick someone in your vast pool of scumreads?? From what you've said the Pav wagon should be absolutely horrendous to you but you vote for him out of nowhere with a train of logic I have no clue how to follow, in a situation where it buddies you with Ari? (notice 2084)
What even
Okay I guess 2086 has some sort of hint of her reconsidering her reads which makes this less bad but... she only says this when the inconsistency in her thought process gets called out by Beat, it's not something she decides to tell us herself, it's a response to pressure
Where is Pav in this? Earlier it was his wagon that was similar to Beat's and now it's Gamma's?In post 2090, skitter30 wrote:The beat and gamma wagons felt kinda similar to me, and i was never convinced either were scum
2228 Who? What? Why? Where? When? How? There is no actual progression on this read, the game just moved and Skitter followed.
2232 he's uninspiring? That's all?
2289 of course, a really weird vote on Pav absolves you of all guilt
2291 Feeling like her partner getting limmed is inevitable (this bit may be conf bias but it feels like pessimistic scum thinking more than anything)
2426 Damn Skitter actually finds something Pav did questionable! I'd like this if it was something she came up with, if she added something, and more importantly if it wasn't +1ing something said by someone she's buddying with.
2434 So we're at the 2434th post in the game and the 245th Skitter has made. This is the first instance of her directly engaging with Pav, who is not only yknow another player in the game but someone she's voted for 359 posts ago. Big doubt on her actually trying to sort him here. and this is a very mild post I don't really feel strongly about. It's mainly done to clear up something outright incorrect Pav said.
2448 Questioning Pav's townread on her. Hmm
Neither of these interactions come anywhere near making me think they aren't partnered.
2513 This is the like first post I've seen I actually think is good. Skitter is presented options and goes with the one on scum. Bussing for towncred isn't too likely in this setup so the benefit scum!Skitter gets from doing this doesn't seem too significant. I guess this is much less significant if Marci is also scum because a pivot from Skitter on Gamma or Fruit would look out of the blue here. But also does Skitter/Marci make sense? Like does scum!Skitter spend day 2 focusing her pushes on her 2 partners? It seems very questionable. But then who is she partnered with? Faker? Coral? hmm
2601 Alright. This and the other post are pushing for Pav to be limmed. I'm wondering if she's gotten to a point where she thinks Pav being limmed is inevitable, and therefore supports it so the mafia team doesn't get decimated on D3/D4. Like if a mafia member other than Pav had gotten limmed (Skitter or whoever the third one is if she is), Pav very likely limmed day 3 or day 4. Skitter's said it herself earlier she thinks his (or Gamma's) lim is inevitable. and so she would reluctantly support the wagon on Pav and win the endgame with her other partner, instead of trying to save someone who's doing nothing to help his own case.
2682 WASN'T THE ENTIRE REASON FOR NOT LIKING THE PAV PUSH THAT HE WASN'T ON BEAT? I feel like Skitter would remember it since Pav not being on the Beat wagon was such an integral part of her read on him earlier
2732 the implication of 1 scum in the pool makes me think she's partnered with Gamma here if scum. Especially with the earlier mention of Gamma or Pav being limmed inevitable, it checks out even more with the pessimistic scum mentality I think she had. I'll have to give Faker/Skitter a more thorough look because I recall them interacting in a way that didn't feel partnered earlier?
TLDR: Skitter's progression on Pav perplexes me and I think she's scum.
Pedit: Hmm I'd guess Faker from what I've just seen in your ISO, but I need to everything a second look. Especially with your recent interactions I mentioned earlier. Your focus on Marci D2 seems kind of crazy to have if you/her/Pav are the team. It would make your interactions with Pav make less sense, and your interactions with Marci don't look S/S. Coral and Cakez I actually don't recall there being much reason for you not to be partnered with, so I guess I would have to give them a second glance too.
Marci's lack of equity with you is actually pretty surprising and makes me think I should probably scrutinize people outside of {Skitter, Marci, Faker} a bit more.
Also, I don't think you letting your partner go to endgame over you is unlikely. Coral and Faker I think both can manage well if scum, and Cakez isn't around that much but also isn't really being scumread by many. Marci well, tbh doesn't make sense as partnered with you anymore and this is another reason why. I don't think you really play aggressively with Marci!scum existing.-
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WdymIn post 3231, marcistar wrote:In post 3229, Meuh wrote:I do think that looking at associatives is more productive in sorting her than just trying to read her on vibes. and those associatives aren't great iirc?
do u take issue with my posts
I vaguely recall your stance on Pav being partnerlike
I think you’re much less scummy now though cause your partner equity with Skitter is very low and she’s very likely scum-
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In post 3236, Aristeia wrote:ok but why would you think skitter's lack of engagement with Pavo is susp while unvoting Pavo and voting for Fruit?
I can scumread more than one personIn post 3237, Aristeia wrote:like my issue with 2313
is that you seem to find skitter - pavo relationship susp because lack of engagement
but you're not voting skitter or pavo, you're voting for fruit?
it's not like you're saying weird there's nothing here between skitter and pavo therefore Skitter = scum or pavo = scum or they're both scum together. You're saying actually it should be fruit?
I was having doubts about my reads and that doubt landed my vote on Fruit
You can find it scummy ig, it wasn’t the most logical vote in the world and I don’t really have much else to say on it
Also the way I interacted with the Pav wagon and the way Skitter did are vastly different and not really comparable
I’ve stated my reasons for my vote already and it does not change that the way Skitter acted around the Pav wagon is very strange, not just from the lack of engagement but everything else I noticed while reading her ISO.-
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I think that's fair, like I came into this already scumreading you.In post 3239, skitter30 wrote:- i lowkey feel like you decided i was scum, and then went through my iso to find things to support that conclusion
Plus originally, my post was just going to be reiterating the point about the lack of interaction, because it particularly stuck out to me considering I find your recent play scummy and I felt as though I should give a more thorough look at your interactions with Pav.
But then I checked out some of the other posts you made about Pav, and then more... and then like an hour later I had read all of your mentions of Pav (prior to day 3). So because I was just trying to prove my point at first, the first bit of the post was more about that than about anything else.
To me those posts read like you fully committing to it. I know your vote had already been there for a while. The whole mention of the group of superficially scummy players however felt like you were making it explicit. I like that commitment because I expect scum to avoid it.- i find it kinda interesting that you're at one relatively late stage in the preceedings describing me as staying on pav 'due to feeling its inevitable at that point': i was on him for several irl days at that point, ajd had ample opportunity to leave it before that point if i chose, but didn't
Okay, this is fair.- as i explained several times: i found the tuf/marci/gamma/pav(+beat) groupijg to be difficult. I thought there was at least one scum there, but probably just one, and had little confidence that we were going to pick the right one (aside: really easy for my to hop off of pav onto marci, tuf, etc with this stance as his partner), and wanted for something better than just flipping through thr group. At some point or another, i saw something townie from the others, but never from pav, so at the moment i voted him ifelt the worst about him (and felt we were getting stuck on the other alternative wagons), and i never saw a reason to leave
I don't expect you to engage with him extensively but it's striking to me how long there was just absolutely nothing.- i had nothing to say to pav for most of the game: he had little content, and people prodding him didnt create more. Unsure what i was meant to add
Also, I recall you engaging with Marci to try to get reads out of her when she was being actively uncooperative. So why not do the same for Pav? I understand that like there's a difference in activity but still.
Fmpov you have 2 players who are not producing much in terms of reads and insight into the game, who you both seem to want to figure out better. One of which you chose to engage with (you asked Marci the same question 4 times to make sure she'd answer), and one you just didn't talk to. With the fact you're voting for Pav on top of it all, it makes me a bit uneasy.
Huh, you mean have Gamma escape in case of a mislim on day 2? If so I don't think that happens, Pav just escapes 100% of the time that night, regardless of the scum team imo- wrt potential partners: faker joined eod2, it was gamma before then. I think its unlikely i wouod have played to escape and leave gamma at the helm when he was so wildly suspected, and i wasnt
Or do you mean regarding escaping on this night? Like setting it up beforehand? If so I guess you might wanna play more passively? Though I feel like you weren't that aggressive on day 2 (tbh calling anyone "aggressive" feels weird but I guess I'm committed to it)
Tbh I also feel like I haven't factored personal playstyle enough into this whole equation.
Scum aren't going to do a 180 on their playstyle because of the escape mechanic
Is this game any different from how Skitter typically plays? This is my first time playing with her. I'd assume it'd been called out if it was. @Anyone
Also maybe you have already and I missed it but could you just explain why you voted for Pav in the first place? It massively confuses me-
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I amIn post 3243, SirCakez wrote:Meuh why aren't u voting for skitter if u think she's so scummy?-
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I didn't really have anyone in mind specifically. It was kind of an in the moment gamestate read thing so I don't 100% recall everything I had going through my mind at the time.In post 3246, Coral wrote:
Meuh, I'd still like an answer to this. Who did you feel was positioning around skitter in this way? Do you still agree with that earlier thought?In post 3222, Coral wrote:
Following along with Ari's post, and I'm reminded of this, which I think got lost in the shuffle a bit with the responses to my longer post about skitter. I don't think I ever got a response here. Meuh, do you remember who you were referring to with this? I remember thinking it was kind of an odd thing to sayIn post 2243, Coral wrote:
This is surprising to me! I didn't really get that impression, I thought it was mostly Isis who was scumreading her right now. What names were you thinking of here?In post 2239, Meuh wrote:The way people position themselves around her gives me the impression she's someone scum want as a lim at some point.
To me I just recall people not really taking harsh stances on Skitter? Like iirc there wasn't a lot of just "Skitter is town" or "Skitter is scum" and so she was kind of in this state of perpetual neutrality. This to me felt like it could be scum purposely acting in this way. Then, they can avoid talking about her at that point, but have her as a mislim later on, which is a scary prospect.
In retrospect I still agree with the logic behind it (the neutrality and potential setup), but not really the conclusion. Aside from people scum want to mislim later, there's also scum themselves who often find themselves in perpetual neutrality. (I like this term, even if it isn't fully accurate. Feels nice) But yeah as scum can have a hard time generating genuine reads of their partners and because they want flexibility to push their agenda down the line, I could see Skitter also be in that specific position as scum.
It can also sometime just happen with no ill-intent, but yeah I think perpetual neutrality affects 2 groups of people the most. People scum want to potentially lim down the line, or scum themselves. I think Skitter's position in the game, purely through that lens, means she could be either and overall this point doesn't feel that compelling to me at this point.-
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I feel like I should be offended by this…In post 3253, Faker wrote:Anyway I'm feeling pretty decent today so should be able to tackle stuff. I tend to wither quickly in tonal banter garbage but I'll try it. Worst case scenario I just start from the beginning of Day 2.
It’s not tonal banter garbage it’s called having fun!-
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I do still think if you’re scum you’re planning to escape tonightIn post 3267, skitter30 wrote:In post 3228, Meuh wrote:At the start I scumread her -> realizing scum need 2 mislims, it feels less likely to play aggressively -> therefore Skitter!town seems likely -> remembering someone gets to escape -> scum will likely go with an aggressive and a passive player, to secure their wincon -> so, Skitter's play could fit within the ideals of the mafia
I'm still leaning scum on her at the moment, it's more my perspective on the way scum could and would play today that's change
Ehat does this bit mean on this context? How do you think scum-me is playing the gameIn post 3261, Meuh wrote:Huh, you mean have Gamma escape in case of a mislim on day 2? If so I don't think that happens, Pav just escapes 100% of the time that night, regardless of the scum team imo
Or do you mean regarding escaping on this night? Like setting it up beforehand? If so I guess you might wanna play more passively? Though I feel like you weren't that aggressive on day 2 (tbh calling anyone "aggressive" feels weird but I guess I'm committed to it)
If i'm playing aggressively and plan to escape: who am i entrusting the game to tomorrow? Who is my partner?
If i'm playing passively, plz explain the first quote
- also i feel like you're conceding my points when i make them even if they dont fit your narrative, but then ending up with a scumread anyways
I meant like in your play yesterday you might play more passively, but today there’s no reason to do it
But meh this argument isn’t really very compelling to me at this point
If you’re scum you’re with Coral or Cakez probably which feels weird to say but I guess there’s probably scum there
Did Isis ever elaborate on her Coral read? I would like more insight there
Also on conceding points, me saying “fair enough” doesn’t mean “you have changed my stance on this”, it means “I see where you’re coming from and I think what you’re saying is reasonable”-
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Nothing changed in the game iirc, it was my own thoughts leading me thereIn post 3319, Aristeia wrote:ok so if you scumread Pavo & Fruit - why move from Pavo who you hadgood reasonsto vote for and was at 5 votes and viable for elim to move your vote to Fruit who had at that time 0 votes?
What did changed in the game that made you doubt your Pavo vote?
I often hit these walls in games of paranoia about the way I'm thinking and end up being wrong and completely doing 180s. Often it's from IRL factors and/or mislims happening, sometimes it happens naturally
I think while the context is a bit different (Fruit was more of a gamestate read and I felt meh about his individual posts), the mentality I have in my read on Greeting in a past game is similar. The general deterioration of my thought process too. If meta isn't compelling to you that's fine but I think this is the best way I can express this.
Spoiler: Self-meta time yay!
This might be hard to follow since I know meta is hard to fully understand but I hope you can get a glimpse of those sorts of hitting a wall moments for me. While not as extreme, I've hit some this game too, like when voting for Fruit or with my turnaround on GL.
I think explaining my mentality this way just works better at making you understand those moments than explaining my logic behind them. Honestly, logic doesn't play much of a role in those moments, to put it simply.-
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and this is not the reason why I felt Skitter's vote was weird in the first place.In post 3319, Aristeia wrote:Like I don't understand why you think Skitter's vote on Pavo was strange. Like if she never votes for Pavo there, he doesn't really become a thing? You had previously voted Pavo twice and nothing really happened. Skitter voting Pavo caused me to sheep her onto Pavo which she knew would happen before she voted there and that drew more people to Pavo at put him at five. I'm not sure why you think that's something Scum!her does? Like does it make sense for scum!her to defend Town!Gamma from a wagon to instead wagon Pavo her partner?
What feels weird to me is what town!Skitter's reasoning for placing a vote there was in the first place. Reading around it, the vote seems to just lack real justification for being placed there, it feels unnatural in that way.
Of course the outcome of it all was good and it's the most town-indicative thing in Skitter's whole ISO, but that's not really what I was thinking of.
Also, pretty sure I've asked Skitter why she voted for Pav and she didn't answer, unless I missed it. Would still like to know.-
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I've taken weird stances, my reads have changed massively over time and there's barely any read I've stuck to this entire game.In post 3356, GuiltyLion wrote:Meuh, what would you say you've done this game that you wouldn't do as scum? what's the strongest point (in your mind) of evidence for you as town?
I get that's odd to see as town indicative, but I literally can't fake read evolution or hot takes as scum.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89392
My scumplay is so milquetoast it's sad.
...now I'm starting to feel if I delve deeper into my scum meta, if I do roll scum against you guys I'll get destroyed-
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Marci makes no sense as a partner so not her.In post 3360, SirCakez wrote:meuh who do you have as the other scum besides skitter?
Faker is like possible but I don't think is very likely.
You or Coral would be it, leaning towards Coral because you've read pretty town to me this game.
Though now I'm starting to doubt Skitter being scum and it's all blegh
but like if she isn't scum who is?
Like 2 of {Coral, Marci, Faker} I guess? Maybe you but I don't find it that likely
Haven't really delved into the associative between those 3 but I don't recall any of them sounding impossible-
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Idk if I really see that here. It feels more like Coral giving her stamp of approval on your read and going, "well done Isis!" without agreeing with it, instead arguing mostly in favor of Marci, while still keeping that door open.In post 3428, Isis wrote:In post 1806, Coral wrote:I admit that marci does have quite good vibes from what I've read. I'm a little surprised by the level of nuance your reasoning has given how you believed nobody would listen to it. Looking at the timeline of UglyFruit's posts in comparison to marci's that you've quoted, the narrative checks out.
I do think that people often have an investment in helping welcome their newbie friends to the game and have a tendency to make excuses for them. My gut feeling would be that marci as scum would be less likely to stick her neck out for him, but I'm not sure on that. I can see, though, how the progression could have scum motivation, with the move to discredit after UglyFruit begins to scumread her
This 2 post sequence reads really towny to me. It's risky to do this thing where you analyze this feature and reserve judgement on how to interpret it, then kind of interpret it live, as scum, it might not come off natural, and it looks really natural here. There's no logical disconnects. And it all really seemed like an excercise in academic integrity or something because my slot didn't feel like it mattered much at the time.In post 1807, Coral wrote:I guess I'm actually still a little hung up on why you were so fatalistic about people not listening to you
i don't see any previous mention of why you find marci to be scum in your ISO, between 1534 and now, at least. that would make the self-comparisons to Beat a tad premature, no? my understanding was that Beat expressed reads and reasons, felt nobody listened to them, got dejected and shut down. you expressed a read without reasons despite the reason being actually pretty good, and then said that you understood the lack of engagement and agency that beat was feeling, and said that nobody would follow you onto a marci vote.
I think I may be coming back around to finding that line to be performative
I think it's her towniest bit to me, but bear in mind it's ladled onto a baseline of believing worst to be town so when I talk about the read being strong all the time, there's that.
If scum, it would be because agreeing with the read would step out of line from her mentioning earlier she didn't like your vibes, and because Marci was townread by most on day 1 iirc. (This would also make sense in a Coral/Marci pair, which I haven't ruled out)
Also, the way she pivots into the inconsistency with people not listening to you makes me feel like she was trying to shade you in a way that didn't come off as too intense. 1806 feels like it's softening the blow of 1807 and deliberately engaging with you in a way you'd like if that makes any sense?? But also the progression from the 2 posts feels pretty natural so idk. I'm very much reading these posts from a Coral scum POV and that's more what I'm considering.
Like the posts have good vibes but I feel like they could very much be motivated by a scum agenda? So hmm.
Spoiler:-
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Also I'm not particularly interested in voting Cakez. Like he makes sense in some pairs ig and there's some content I like from others, but I still gutread him as town. I feel like voting him as a compromise because I'm too scared of others being town is an easy way to end up with a mislim. I don't recall those kind of votes turning out very well.-
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Hmm yeah the progression between the 2 posts feels fairly natural
Maybe Coral is just town
I kind of want Coral to be scum though because if she isn't I'm getting something else wrong
Cause if Coral's town, either Skitter's partner is someone that doesn't make sense or it's Cakez, who I think is town
That or Skitter just isn't scum
but then who is it? The pool of {Marci, Faker, Cakez} that's created there is kinda meh to me
Blegh-
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It's not based on being partnered with Pav, I haven't really considered that aspect. Cakez has just looked like he doesn't have an agenda from the start of the game and nothing has really made me question that. Maybe lack of content helps but idk.In post 3484, GuiltyLion wrote:In post 3475, Meuh wrote:Also I'm not particularly interested in voting Cakez. Like he makes sense in some pairs ig and there's some content I like from others, but I still gutread him as town. I feel like voting him as a compromise because I'm too scared of others being town is an easy way to end up with a mislim. I don't recall those kind of votes turning out very well.
Why do you have such a confident gut townread on him, though? Like I see absolutely nothing in his ISO that makes me think he's not partnered with Pav nor that he's especially strong town by play, whereas I have glimmers of that with almost everyone else. That makes him feel like a good lim to me, not a bad one.In post 3476, Meuh wrote:Maybe I'm just clinging too hard onto that read but voting for the person I had the biggest townread on at the start of the day (within the pool) just sounds bad.
The point about nothing really sticking out as town-indicative for him is like fair, to me my read is moreso based on a general feeling about his game than about any specific moments. Maybe that's a bad read to have.-
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In post 3488, marcistar wrote:yawns
I feel like the yawn emoji is so underrated... it's impeccable and very expressive for something so small
Faker I hope your computer doesn't give you too much trouble, that's a shame
Also Marci I read your post and it makes me happy
Idk if I have anything to comment on, I'll see if I do later-
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In post 3495, skitter30 wrote:*raises hand*
Will actually respond to the substantive stuff later, at work todaySpoiler:
meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-
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Yeah not questioning his stance on Marci after she drops her most substantial content in a while is ???
Even if he kept pushing, if he engaged with that post whatsoever it'd feel less bad-
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NeitherIn post 3520, Isis wrote:Is Meuh pronounced like the 151st Pokemon or is it pronounced like the second part of what Mario says when he's exasperated
Also cake sounds tasty
Did you change your pfp so people could tell us apart? I love making people suffer-
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