Open 854 | Eurybia's Curse | Game Over!

[Coral]

Literally the name of this game for Faker-scum is to stall the fuck out of the game and force town to make an egregious error wagoning as deadline approaches.

That doesn't work if they default vote Meuh.

I don't really think town is default voting Meuh here? GL wants Cakez at last check. Isis probably prefers Cakez to Meuh, to my understanding. Ari, I'm not sure, she used to want Meuh but I'm not sure if that's still the case. Titus hasn't gotten caught up yet, but you may be able to predict where she will go, I have no idea. Andante is unpredictable.

[Coral]

The goal for Faker scum is obv to chain lim Coral and me after Meuh escapes tonight

I kind of doubt this, much more likely is that she's pushing me heavily to set up for tomorrow but doesn't actually want to flip me yet.

[Coral]

Your point here seems to be that it's odd for me to lump both of these players into my not-confident/readthrough pile, and therefore "treat them equally". Having a preference for one does not align with this, since both are equal.

They're equal in the sense that my confidence in my read on them was low and they're scumlean+null in the bucket. It's not like I hadn't made my read clear at multiple points this game or that they suddenly were even stevens.

I think the level of difference between them when you state your overall reads in these posts doesn't match with the points you've made about them. They're not exactly equal, you're right, but they're closer to equal than I would expect. And I think there is potential scum benefit to that, as I already talked about.

[Coral]

Literally the name of this game for Faker-scum is to stall the fuck out of the game and force town to make an egregious error wagoning as deadline approaches.

That doesn't work if they default vote Meuh.

I don't really think town is default voting Meuh here? GL wants Cakez at last check. Isis probably prefers Cakez to Meuh, to my understanding. Ari, I'm not sure, she used to want Meuh but I'm not sure if that's still the case. Titus hasn't gotten caught up yet, but you may be able to predict where she will go, I have no idea. Andante is unpredictable.

This wasn't obvious from my post but it's not that Meuh would 100% be the vote, it's that it is a

fairly probable

outcome. My risk tolerance as scum is essentially zero.

Where is the path that has zero risk? Pushing cakez aggressively is I think a tradeoff, less risk today but more risk tomorrow.

I think there is some validity to the argument that you would want to lean on the side of putting more risk on the day where you have more control, I'll consider that point.

[Coral]

Again the basis for this being "too close" is that I put both into the "to read" bucket. I don't really have any interest in dialoguing on this point further.

It's specifically the language used of "just going to look at Meuh/Cakez and pick one to vote", actually, and knowing that you are generally intentional with your word choice, but I don't really think we're getting anywhere with this either, so that's fine

[Coral]

hi, I just got home and am terribly sleepy but if anyone wants me to respond to anything while I'm here for a few minutes please point me that way

i don't think the day is ending very soon but i sense a feeling of urgency from some people and im not sure where that's coming from

welcome back GL!!

[Coral]

if faker is now wanting to flip meuh here then im back to being confused

i may need to read more closely for full context

[Coral]

if anyone wants me to respond to anything while I'm here for a few minutes please point me that way

Please analyze Craig Morgan's "International Harvester" from a Marxist perspective, paying special attention to representations of the proletariat/bourgeoisie conflict, the distinctions made between kinds of goods and those responsible for and controlling of their means of production, and the existing ownership of critical infrastructure by the state. Finally, take a stance and argue whether country music has any place in the revolution or the resulting society as a means of cultural education.

In Craig Morgan's "International Harvester", a stunning representation of class struggle in modern day rural America, Mr. Morgan brilliantly repurposes classic country tropes to fit more closely with the realities of the life of a farmer, and in doing so, he is able to bring Marxist ideals to those who need to hear them most in a form that is easily digestible. Instead of driving a truck down the highway, Morgan drives his tractor at 5 miles per hour down the state-maintained road. Instead of chugging beer, he's making hay. Instead of wailing about how his wife left him and his dog died, he sharply drives home a biting critique of how capitalism has failed both him and his fellow man, and how his hope for the American dream has died. By subtly replacing these classic tropes with this political messaging, he's bringing ideas that would ordinarily be outright rejected by his target audience and packaging them in a way that will result in them not "fallin on deaf ears of corn".

The song is filled to the brim with deep meaning and thought-provoking metaphors. One such example is in one of the key refrains of the song, where he is driving down the highway on his International Harvester, while those who want to go faster in their cars and trucks are yelling at him. This serves a dual purpose, to represent both the socioeconomic inefficiencies that lead to class struggle, central to Marxist thought, as well as the beginning steps of the proletariat rising up against both the bourgeois and the state.

A country song that only accomplished that much would be impressive enough; however, this is only one thread in the story that Morgan weaves. He doesn't simply state the problems and leave his fellow proletariat with no solution. In every verse, he juxtaposes these failures of capitalism with the answer: controlling the means of production. His International Harvester, his p-p-p-p-plower, is the true hero of the narrative, and is portrayed as the hero that it is in a way that tractors, unfortunately, rarely are in today's pop culture. By showing the power of ownership of the means of production, In doing so, Morgan plants the seeds of a revolution, beginning with the 4-H and FFA groups that he promotes, uniting farmers under a common banner of hope for a better future, and presenting them with an anthem: "International Harvester".

[Coral]

Also, please keep in mind the following excerpt and accompanying question, as you may find it helpful in crafting your response:

I'm the son of a 3rd generation farmer
I've been married 10 years to the farmer's daughter

Does this imply that the narrator is in fact married to his sister?

...yes, probably

[Coral]

thank you!

[Coral]

Coral is bullying me for failure to altguess her

i would never!!

[Coral]

I'll probably out eventually but I plan to play a few more games at least first

you're welcome to guess and I will simply ignore them!

[Coral]

not as rude as voting me

[Coral]

i do have a bone to pick with whoever didn't conf me as town, actually. it would have been such a party

[Coral]

i guess it could be meuh/marci? i was believing that to be possible earlier until cakez got me thinking about the faker/meuh idea

[Coral]

im going to think about this in the morning. my brain is too full of hay

[Coral]

Okay, I've more fully absorbed the back and forth mostly surrounding Meuh that went on recently now, and I didn't get a ton out of it, a lot was rehashing points that seemed similar to previously made ones. I do at least believe that the vote on Meuh from Faker isn't clearing her from being a partner, based on the way it progressed, but it does probably make it less likely since it could be a risky move

[Coral]

the fact that Coral hasn't voted at all today is bad

I get that people want the conftowns to lead but in my perfect world the conftowns would abstain from voting and the unclears would be voting first to demonstrate actual intent/commitment to their reads

I guess that's fair!

I wasn't really thinking of things from that perspective at all, but that is a pretty reasonable game plan. From my perspective, I felt that voting wasn't particularly necessary since it wouldn't really add pressure or contribute to an elim since it would mostly be up to the townblock anyway, and so doing so felt like it would only really be performative, but I wasn't really thinking about people needing to sort me as well, and that I should at least participate in the voting dance to appease our royalty for the sake of that. I had somewhat mentally binned myself as one of the townblock, but I do understand that's not actually the case from anyone else's perspective.

I do wish now that I had voted Meuh last night to see if skitter/Cakez/Faker would all be willing to stay there as the pressure rose. I had the idea but decided I'd do it today, but then now Faker has already switched, so it was a mistake not to while I had the chance.

Still, though, that's where I most want the elim to be at this time, so I can start dancing too

VOTE: Meuh

[Coral]

also Cakez's spree of posts from 4068 to 4076 just feels like caught scum panic to me

Faker is a very smart mafia player and obv way better at this game then I
The fact that they continue to make ridiculous logical errors over and over is convincing me they are scum

this post in particular feels like scum mindset in how he says Faker's logical errors "is convincing [him]" that Faker is scum

if he was actually being convinced he'd just assert that Faker is scum, rather than that his mindset is evolving to Faker-scum. instead this feels self-aware that he needs to emulate a thought process

I actually found those posts convincing but maybe that was intentional from him? I was in the process of looking for who could fit as Meuh's partner here and he may have jumped on that opportunity.

I guess I could just be wrong on Cakez being the preferred miselim of scum

[Coral]

Coral why did you roll scum
The yacht party was gonna be so much fun…

I didn't roll scum, don't worry!

Spoiler:

If I were scum, it would have been the worst who rolled it

Spoiler:

but he didn't either!

[Coral]

The game was moving that way before you joined. Faker made a case and had him second in her reads while pushing primarily me. Meuh felt to me like she had an unnatural shift from a townread of Cakez to pushing him as soon as there was some momentum from a couple of the townblock members expressing scumreads of Cakez. Her reasoning of him having scum equity with everyone was never really supported and it was the main basis for her switch.

[Coral]

idk this whole idea that scum!Meuh votes her partner Pav several times but then bails at the 11th hour in an effort to save him just feels kinda nonsensical to me

This was my initial reaction as well, at this point I don't even remember what convinced me otherwise, but I'll try to go back and look

[Coral]

I think it was just that as I was arguing the point with skitter, after some back and forth I started to feel like I was just playing devil's advocate and wasn't even really that convinced myself that the point was a good one. And then when I went back to reread Ari's points about them, they seemed more convincing than I originally thought

[Coral]

if Cakez is town he should be like a freebie miselim for scum here right, and they would likely intend for that possibility by not clearing him

why is he so much harder to wagon than Meuh or Coral

I guess they could have decided that there's sufficient suspicion there from within the townblock that they don't have to lead the elim, just follow the momentum when it's already there?

The uncleared slots in general pushing somewhere is probably almost as likely to discourage the townblock from voting there as it is to convince them that it's a good wagon.

[Coral]

The uncleared slots in general pushing somewhere is probably almost as likely to discourage the townblock from voting there as it is to convince them that it's a good wagon.

why would the unclears pushing their SR tell us it's a bad wagon? if you're taking a stance, it's generally a towny thing to do

VOTE: Coral

For example, currently, half of the uncleared slots are voting Meuh. That makes it less likely that Meuh's partner is among those slots, or they're playing a very risky game. This decreases the amount of possible partners Meuh could have. This makes the townblock less interested in voting there.

There's 6 uncleared slots and 2 scum in them. If someone in the townblock has just 1 or 2 strong townreads, then a vote from the remaining group is almost as likely to be coming from scum as it is from town, from their perspective.

[Coral]

if Cakez is town he should be like a freebie miselim for scum here right, and they would likely intend for that possibility by not clearing him

why is he so much harder to wagon than Meuh or Coral

I guess they could have decided that there's sufficient suspicion there from within the townblock that they don't have to lead the elim, just follow the momentum when it's already there?

The uncleared slots in general pushing somewhere is probably almost as likely to discourage the townblock from voting there as it is to convince them that it's a good wagon.

like.. from what I've seen, these clears aren't doing a whole lot (sorry friends) and like, I know I haven't put maximum effort in, all you'd have to do as scum is be like "hey here's a thought" and if it's good, we most likely just sheep, and if it flips town, we just shrug and reevaluate tomorrow...

Cause honestly, not taking a stance is by far the scummiest thing town could do here. like, as an unclear town, you'd know you're town, so you should be either trying to prove you're town and/or suggesting a direction to go that isn't you... not all this "We should sheep the clears"

All scum needs to do is eliminate town and escape. If the clears aren't doing much and will sheep a strong leader from the uncleared slots, then all scum has to do is... step up, take a stance, be a strong leader and lead a push onto town and then escape. We don't have a chance to re-evaluate if the scum just leaves after pushing town.

[Coral]

What if the useless players did something???

who you calling useless....

Not u
Like Marci and fruit basically LMAO

Andante is fruit lmao

???

[Coral]

Do you think I was calling Cakez scum there?

[Coral]

I don't think Cakez is scum. I'm just amazed at how he managed to not notice that Fruit is mysteriously missing yet. The alcohol may be contributing to that, I guess.

[Coral]

FAKER NO FAKING

lmao

[Coral]

I don't really think it's skitter anymore but I guess I could be wrong. She has been less of an active voice lately, and there's been less pressure on her, but I don't know if those things are connected. I would still much prefer Meuh, though.

[Coral]

Wow
Meuh literally said "I'm just gonna vote whoever the alternative to me being limmed is"

YOU KNOW WHO DOES THAT
SCUM

also disagree with this too

that's just the right play no matter what alignment you are and if anything being so open about it is +town, not +scum

GL really rolls up to this thread and just finds my most recent post so he can say he disagrees with it
LITERALLT EVERY TIME

maybe he's scum

[Coral]

Wow
Meuh literally said "I'm just gonna vote whoever the alternative to me being limmed is"

YOU KNOW WHO DOES THAT
SCUM

also disagree with this too

that's just the right play no matter what alignment you are and if anything being so open about it is +town, not +scum

GL really rolls up to this thread and just finds my most recent post so he can say he disagrees with it
LITERALLT EVERY TIME

maybe he's scum

No he's conftown :////

damn, good point, I forgot about that

[Coral]

I don't really think it's skitter anymore but I guess I could be wrong. She has been less of an active voice lately, and there's been less pressure on her, but I don't know if those things are connected. I would still much prefer Meuh, though.

Coral did you roll scum

we've already been over this!

and if you all want skitter over meuh I'm okay with that.

[Coral]

skitter/faker would surprise me? but it's possible. faker would have to put her foot down and demand to elim me at this point, probably

skitter/marci is just as possible as marci/meuh, I think

skitter/cakez seems kinda believable but I think cakez is town

skitter/meuh seems really unlikely with the 1v1 where neither really backed down

[Coral]

what if we lim marci instead of meuh cuz marci is literally meuhs only possible partner

you don't think meuh/faker is possible? she didn't stay on there for very long

[Coral]

it's a boat party!!

[Coral]

part of me wants to say Faker is the partner, but Coral is definitely maf. sooo yeah also I always lim Coral first

If scum gets eliminated, then the game is over. In this case, if you eliminate me, a scum will escape, and then you'll have 1 remaining day to find their partner, or the game is over.

[Coral]

I don't think I'm getting elimmed here, though, because I think the team is in [Marci, meuh, faker], and all three are already voting me

[Coral]

also that marci vote makes me think meuh / marci

pedit don't scum just lose if one of them get flipped today?
faker is arguing coral is scum
why would their partner hammer

faker is arguing that you scum/me town is unlikely to exist

it's a weird thing to argue if she actually thinks I'm scum here

[Coral]

pedit don't scum just lose if one of them get flipped today?

oh what? lol if that's the mechanic??

reading the setup can be useful sometimes!!

[Coral]

also that marci vote makes me think meuh / marci

dumb stance

i kind of want to just yeet marci atp

she's probly mafia and partnered with either meuh or faker and i can't tell which one

Im still worried about meuh/faker, but I guess if we miss on marci then one of them will have to escape anyway, so maybe it doesn't matter? I do think scum is in those 3

[Coral]

that would have been very funny if scum thought it was e-1 due to the chaos and tried to blitz

[Coral]

no,

how does it not worry you at all?
it only takes 1 person to decide to yolo it

are you worried about town hammering?

[Coral]

yes im so worried someone will hammer my buddy

it was a serious question, I really don't understand what you're worried about

[Coral]

im currently here:


we yeet coral

if game over yay

if skitter escapes yeet cakes

if cakes escapes yeet skitter

if faker escapes yeet in marci/meuh

if marci escapes yeet faker

if meuh escapes yeet faker

does that make sense?

this is also losing in the case of marci/meuh which i still think is possible

[Coral]

i can vote skitter if meuh is not possible but i would prefer a meuh flip

i was tunneled on skitter for most of the game and managed to pull myself out of it and see that other possibilities exist, which makes it hard for me to dive back in to that. i already convinced myself I was wrong and that meuh was more likely scum

[Coral]

isis if you are still convinced on skitter being scum im okay with trusting you on that

[Coral]

queen isis

[Coral]

i talked myself into it, mostly. skitter seemed consistently like she was engaging with the game and with me in a reasonable, towny way. meuh felt like she was flowing from place to place opportunistically. i didn't trust meuh had good intentions because i didn't feel like her thoughts were progressing organically

but I know skitter is a good scum player who is good at faking being reasonable.

[Coral]

i do still have the original issues I had with skitter's play d1 and d2. i still can see how she could have been pushing down on people who scumread pavowski while looking like she was hard chainsawing for gamma to set up a false associative. but my heart's not in it anymore. I townread her d3 play. but it's possible that read is wrong.

[Coral]

i would have been voting skitter from 3120 (where I would have unvoted Faker) to somewhere around 3849 if I had been using my vote. which I realize now that I probably should have, as it would make it easier for you all to sort me, but i just wasn't really thinking about that at the time.

[Coral]

who is good at faking being reasonable.

wait, what? how does one "fake being reasonable"???

i don't really understand the question. many players are good at faking town progressions, conceding points where they logically make sense, stuff like that. i felt like I had a back and forth argument with skitter where I was in the right and she was in the wrong, and after a few rounds back and forth she basically stepped back and realized that i was right. i found that towny of her to do.

but i do think she's capable of faking that progression as scum. and if she is scum it probably was designed exactly to get me to townread her, and it worked

[Coral]

I townread her d3 play. but it's possible that read is wrong.

if you TR her.. why is your first instinct to go "but I might be wrong!!!"

like, it FEELS like you're trying to be like "uhhh I know my actions don't point there, but... yeah!!! mislim skitter!!!"

my first instinct is to continue to push for meuh. my final instinct is to accept that my current reads are not infallible. i know you haven't been here very long, but skitter has been my top scumread for most of the game, and on d2 i was even kind of viewing the game through a lens of what would make sense alongside skitter being scum.

[Coral]

i felt like I had a back and forth argument with skitter where I was in the right and she was in the wrong, and after a few rounds back and forth she basically stepped back and realized that i was right. i found that towny of her to do.

so instead of a town realizing they were wrong, she's maf faking that? what about maf backing down from conflict after realizing wrong? I don't get this "faking being reasonable" thing

that's another way of putting it, I guess. but you can read the posts yourself, if you like. 3558. there's a tone to it that would have to be intentionally faked if skitter was scum. but i think she is capable of doing so.

[Coral]

I townread her d3 play. but it's possible that read is wrong.

if you TR her.. why is your first instinct to go "but I might be wrong!!!"

like, it FEELS like you're trying to be like "uhhh I know my actions don't point there, but... yeah!!! mislim skitter!!!"

my first instinct is to continue to push for meuh. my final instinct is to accept that my current reads are not infallible. i know you haven't been here very long, but skitter has been my top scumread for most of the game, and on d2 i was even kind of viewing the game through a lens of what would make sense alongside skitter being scum.

Ok, so your instinct is to solely push for meuh? you do realize, meuh is going to have a partner right? you just said you had a TR on skitter for parts of the game? so even though she was a TR, the reasons to TR aren't stronger than reasons to SR?

you are welcome to read my posts at any time you'd like to where you can see me considering partners for meuh.

logically, i think the reasons to SR probably do actually outweigh the reasons to TR. but like i said, my heart's not really in it anymore. my heart is often wrong. i also think that meuh and skitter are unlikely scum together, so a SR on meuh means more of a TR on skitter. if people that I know are town tell me that they don't think meuh is scum, that erases part of the reason for me to TR skitter.

[Coral]

Ahhhhhhhh i read that post and changed my mind, i'm leaning towards not-scum now

I'm going back and forth on this one a bit >.>

And i think if i'm actually being honest i might be subconsciously lumping u in with meuh because i'm annoyed i'm getting scumread, which isnt right or helpful

I need to take a step back and think abt this some more

so you read this... and went "the tone = town" like, you just threw this GIANT wall at skitter. not curious about what parts made skitter change her mind, cause you're saying "I TRed this, but now I think the tone was faked"

I read that and go, definitely could be maf realizing their "easy push isn't so easy"

I'm just struggling on your progression with skitter here, it's not making sense

i asked her which parts changed her mind in 3616. i didn't trust it immediately. i liked her response in 3620. i also had been starting to feel doubts about my TR on meuh at the time, and then meuh i felt started acting more suspiciously and opportunistically, and it all kind of coalesced together to make me feel like I was viewing the game from the completely wrong angle

[Coral]

One thing that I think is interesting is that based on their positions and the way that Meuh was talking about skitter, at the time I felt like skitter had pocketed Meuh. But looking more closely now, I don't really see a lot of evidence for that. I think there's more cases where Meuh could be following skitter onto things than the other way around.

this was another moment that made me kind of pause and feel like I was viewing skitter vs meuh from the wrong side, as I was looking back and evaluating meuh's progressions

[Coral]

I'm worried we're going to lose to like... Faker/Cakez

i think im at e-1, cakez could have hammered in this world

[Coral]

i guess he hasn't posted since before i was placed there, it's possible he hasn't seen it

[Coral]

Well in that case i still think it's meuh. Because cakez is the best partner for skitter that I can see and he would have hammered here, probably? in either a cakez/skitter or cakez/faker world

[Coral]

I understand if you can't go on meuh here if you're worried about the risk of me/skitter but I think it has to be in marci/faker tomorrow if meuh escapes

[Coral]

I'd lean faker but I wouldn't want to rule out marci

[Coral]

me showing up out of nowhere to ruin coral's life regardless of her alignment

I had a lot of fun this game, and I think town is in a good position to win even if I have to die for it to happen

We'll always have International Harvester

[Coral]

who is skitter's partner?

[Coral]

im genuinely not sure who it could be. i think scum has to be in meuh/marci/faker

[Coral]

I mean possibly you

it's not me.

[Coral]

faker tomorrow, probably. good luck!

[Coral]

it was a lovely boat party with you all and im so glad i was able to attend!

[Coral]

Thanks for the wonderful modding and wonderful flavor, Ydrasse, and for letting me join the party!

Well played to all, Faker especially coming in really blew up all of our plans and we never quite fully recovered.

Congrats on the deserved victory, town!

[Coral]

Seeing Queen Isis in her lovely tiara holding up a sign with Pav's name on it was such a bittersweet moment.

[Coral]

GL was excellent

[Coral]

I do, in hindsight, regret not taking Ari's offer of the throne and yeeting a town

I didn't even get any towncred for not doing it

[Coral]

the drunk posting was excellent and nearly saved us