Open 869 | Fight for the Winter Court [Game Over!]

[demona]

This pl is ridiculously awsome

kinda feel like i have been fanvoted into the allstar game or something but here i am

hello friends new friends and ydrasse <3

[demona]

here i am

[demona]

1) On day 1, it is extremely beneficial to scum to be among the first to lock in their locations. Any early votes should be put under intense pressure and scrutiny.

hm,

my first instinct here is to just lock in the keep

[demona]

do you think

there is great value

in turning the wall into a second gate?

[demona]

do you think

there is great value

in turning the wall into a second gate?

What do you mean by that? put a top consensus townread there?

like

i feel like

the benefit to me locking in keep would be to force the mafia to move me or concede the keep

whereas the main benefit to me locking in the wall would be turning the wall into a second gate

so i was wondering if you thought there was great value in that since it seems you've been thinking about the setup et cetera

[demona]

pedit: hi demona, what do you mean by 'the benefit to me locking in keep would be to force the mafia to move me or concede the keep'. do you mean you personally can hold the Keep (ie get yourself as a locktown read/find town) or something else?

hi chara!

yeah most of playerlist familiar with me so yeah don't need to find town at the keep if the town finds me

[demona]

It seems like there's an implied assumption here that you are or will be obvtown, is that what you're saying? What makes you special in that regard over anyone else, I guess is what I'm asking.

i don't think it makes me special or anything but past history

like i've never been eliminated as town in a traditional elimination (closest were the 4/4 split in slaughter hour and the werewolf majority game) or shot by a vigilante or anything

so regardless of my capabilities or lack there of of actually finding other towns/mafias

like i get that there is and should be an expectation for me to do so and i will do my best to do so

but that's probably not my greatest strength whereas the keep probably would be best application of my skillset

though if someone familiar with me disagrees i'd be interested in thoughts and such

[demona]

pedit: hi demona, what do you mean by 'the benefit to me locking in keep would be to force the mafia to move me or concede the keep'. do you mean you personally can hold the Keep (ie get yourself as a locktown read/find town) or something else?

hi chara!

yeah most of playerlist familiar with me so yeah don't need to find town at the keep if the town finds me

i don't know you, i think. do you have a habit of obvtowning as town?

*nostalgic, troubled sigh* i used to...

we most recently encountered eachother when i was backup moderating the silent star you were mafia in, and before that the binding of isaac game you moderated

[demona]

I was typing out an answer to this when I realized I don't actually need to give scum advice on how to play. If you think you'll be able to be reliably read as town and are comfortable with hammering, go for it.

eh it's like

if i lock in the keep and the mafia don't move me because they think whoever they have there is more likely to be townread by the town or wifom or whatever i feel like we're in good shape

but also maybe i shouldn't feel that way because of how the slaughter hour split played out or at the very least not so strongly

idk if i feel comfortable hammering,

other option for me i guess was to lurk/wallpost and eventually lock in the wall and hope to not be the one chosen to become confirmed and then be me day two and make the choice easy for the confirmed

but!

it's a bit late for that i was too excited to really want to halfplay for five days

[demona]

I think Coral would make this kind of suggestion as scum and after reviewing their answer I do scumlean this. I don't think she expected anyone to actually follow this and is mostly in it for the towncred.

My belief from previous runs is that scum struggled the most when town did unexpected things in the midgame. I think a rigid solve order does put all of the pieces on the table, which allows for the more chess-like analysis of how things develop, and that's valid.

I think the reason I lean towards wanting to inject some areas of unpredictability here is that we really only have very few points of information gain compared to a standard game.

The unpredictability happens mainly because players are open/talking and suddenly town players take the ball and individually run the other way unexpectedly. This is a function of the degree of transparency of the players, not of them hiding the ball.

i guess i don't really understand how applicable coral's post is anyway

like i assume the gate is often resolved first because the confirmed gets to continue to post and then the keep because it is more straightforward

but also if you really think the mafias are going to be shaping their entire plan around us having a solve order doesn't that make them easier to find

[demona]

is skitter in the room with us right now?

Coral, tell us about your Isis read! please. :>

<3 absinthe for giving game thoughts. if i've played with shiki before i don't remember, need more data this game to decide how i feel about it.

mmmmmmmmm

nnnnnn

why shiki?

[demona]

is skitter in the room with us right now?

Coral, tell us about your Isis read! please. :>

<3 absinthe for giving game thoughts. if i've played with shiki before i don't remember, need more data this game to decide how i feel about it.

mmmmmmmmm

nnnnnn

why shiki?

like how did you choose to refer to me that way?

i don’t think anyone else had

and you’re saying you are unfamiliar with me and that you’re not going to meta this game

and the accounts you would be familiar with are pj harvey dent and madeline

and i listed three accounts when i signed up

so i wonder

[demona]

sorry demona, i said shiki because that's the UN i recognize most.

oh it’s certainly okay i do not mind

just hmm

[demona]

i can't read shiki for SHIT but i remember reading something structurally like this from her so i'm inclined to take her at face value atm at my own peril

unsure if by structurally you mean like

formatting wise or thought process wise

but the hands off approach maybe worries me a bit

[demona]

Coral feels pretty town.

mmm hard for me to not feel like there might me an angle here after i expressed my thoughts regarding keep:

I probably prefer Keep, if it matters. Purely from a playstyle perspective, I think it's ideal to have patience and cooperation there, since scum NEED a town to vote first and vote wrong. I have more faith in those abilities of mine than in pure read abilities, at least.

like i don’t really think we need patience and cooperation to win the keep we just need one town to believe in the other and it doesn’t need to be two way street or anything

and if in the keep and there is absolutely no way to be the town that is believed in like if the other players in the keep refuse to ever vote for you then you simply ask them to each self vote and then it becomes the gate at least from my perspective

[demona]

I have this odd feeling that skitter's *here*.

Demona seems sincere about being easily found as town, Do people who've played with them before agree?

Coral feels pretty town.

Demona is asking for the minigame where you vote for a townie and win, right, not the one where you 1v1?

I wish there were flavor driven names S_S you made Undertale and then you strayed so far from god

yes;

krampus keep! ydrasse fixed the lack of flavour

[demona]

Coral feels pretty town.

mmm hard for me to not feel like there might me an angle here after i expressed my thoughts regarding keep:

I probably prefer Keep, if it matters. Purely from a playstyle perspective, I think it's ideal to have patience and cooperation there, since scum NEED a town to vote first and vote wrong. I have more faith in those abilities of mine than in pure read abilities, at least.

like i don’t really think we need patience and cooperation to win the keep we just need one town to believe in the other and it doesn’t need to be two way street or anything

and if in the keep and there is absolutely no way to be the town that is believed in like if the other players in the keep refuse to ever vote for you then you simply ask them to each self vote and then it becomes the gate at least from my perspective

On paper the keep is the easiest for town, but in practice there can be a delicate balance and a lot of back and forth. The on paper strategy is for there to be a consensus that the scummiest player votes first, and then if they refuse to vote, they are outed as scum. But it isn't always that easy.

For example, consider the scenario where town A has a correct townread, but town B townreads scum (C). Town A will want to encourage C to vote first. C can indicate that they want to vote A. If B panics and thinks that vote will lose the minigame, they may pre-empt the vote and vote for C themselves, thinking that is the only way to win the game.

In general it is quite easy if the two town find each other, and can run on a knife's edge if they don't. It can be a very exciting and tense minigame with a lot of potential for mindgames. I think that patience and cooperation are valuable for it.

I'm also aware that it's likely to be a favorite choice for a lot of people, and not everyone who wants to go there will be able to.

hm, i guess i do not follow

town b is town and is being townread by a and therefore should ask a to vote for b and then b self votes and town wins - like why would town b ever trust their read of c over trusting in their own alignment?

[demona]

do you think

there is great value

in turning the wall into a second gate?

What do you mean by that? put a top consensus townread there?

like

i feel like

the benefit to me locking in keep would be to force the mafia to move me or concede the keep

whereas the main benefit to me locking in the wall would be turning the wall into a second gate

so i was wondering if you thought there was great value in that since it seems you've been thinking about the setup et cetera

I absolutely cannot articulate this but this post really pings me and feels bizarrely scummy to me

do you think

there is value in turning the wall into a second gate?

[demona]

Practically how would you do that?

being town enough,

like you just stated you prefer the keep and feel you would be best suited to it

is this because you feel you are going to towntell very strongly?

and if so, if you went to the wall wouldn’t the wall basically become the gate with you as the confirmed?

but i wonder how to weigh the value of that

[demona]

In how many games? (Not game related really. I just enjoy finding other hard to eliminate people; though I don’t think I’m that hard anymore.)

I guess in the end, the bit about locking up either room due to obvtowness or being an ic doesn’t matter too much based on who they move, and I liked some of your thoughts about yourself and how you’ll be found because they match how I feel about myself in general.

But do you also think that you are good at finding other town? Do you enjoy the pressure of being the decider in 3p? Or is your desire for where to go based mostly on you believing yourself easy to find?

What I’m quoting does sound like the latter but just wanted to make sure.

let’s see

~45 or so total games

12 as mafia

a couple trustfalls as town, the dead silence game, 2 silent stars, and slaughter hour not having traditional elims, maybe another I am currently forgetting

so approximately 25 games

i think i am sometimes okay at finding other towns, i wouldn’t really say good but i do not think i am completely terrible at it it’s just often difficult for me to trust it enough

i wouldn’t say i enjoy the pressure of being the decider in 3p, quite the opposite really but like, at the wall i guess i would always want to be the decider? because then i know the decision is in the hands of town

like it isn’t really about enjoyment or lack there of just seems best option

like in trust fall as town always want to be the one choosing who to leave with at the end

but yes my desire to go to the keep is largely based in towns finding me

[demona]

I think I’m on page three and I have no real thoughts other than liking demona’s early game and belief she’ll be easily found. But that’s because it feels a bit like me and that’s dangerous, so we’ll see.

why dangerous?

like do you think

the other players are potentially just going to ignore me and assume i am town?

or

do you think

that i have a mental database of all the things i am commonly townread for to draw upon to be townread here

which i mean, i would assumedly also dip into this as town as well

or

are you saying it would be dangerous to trust you in a vacuum

and you see similarities between us

or

?

[demona]

I was enjoying retirement, and wouldn't have joined, but Prism's excitement is contagious! Also, massive car issues to sort through and today was kinda stressful on that front.

I don't know if that's contributing to weirdness or not. If it is, I've played weirdly in a lot of games over the years.

who in this game

wasn't

dragged into it by Prism, exactly?

i was certainly not dragged into it;

i saw the pre-ins and that ydrasse was moderating and could not help myself

[demona]

It’s that it’s dangerous for me to go oh demona feels like town to me because the way she’s asserting her ability to be read as town feels very similar to how I feel about my own play and confidence that when I’m town it’s obvious and most people will find that. It’s dangerous because it’s kinda projecting and I don’t know your capabilities as scum.

It’s just the same type of dangerous when someone goes, “this person is town because they’re making the same comments I was thinking when I read the game. They’re seeing the game the same as me so they’re town.” While sometimes true it’s just an egotistical read that can throw off all your reads.

So I like your posts surrounding that because I identify with it, but that’s a dangerous slope for me to fall into so I try to hold myself in check. I’m not sure if any of that makes sense.

oh! a potentially dangerous thought process for you to have because unfamiliar

hmhm

[demona]

I lowkey kinda wish someone had lolpicked a game - it would make it easier to then figure out where *other people* should go based off of thay

I'm not sure how we're now going to crack the ice to start placing people

mm tempting me

would you be likely to like

disengage with me as mafia?

[demona]

I lowkey kinda wish someone had lolpicked a game - it would make it easier to then figure out where *other people* should go based off of thay

I'm not sure how we're now going to crack the ice to start placing people

mm tempting me

would you be likely to like

disengage with me as mafia?

I dont think so, i actually think you would be easier for me to engage with as scum than some other people here

maybe unfair of me to ask but

who do you think would be difficult for you to engage?

[demona]

Coral and demona are my favorite picks for town atp.

feel like you are usually more wary of me especially given we had like a two day lead time and you know my feelings on having a set gamestart time

kinda wonder how you are differentiating coral’s like ‘pushing the game’ from a mafia with like, a prepared approach

[demona]

Coral and demona are my favorite picks for town atp.

feel like you are usually more wary of me especially given we had like a two day lead time and you know my feelings on having a set gamestart time

kinda wonder how you are differentiating coral’s like ‘pushing the game’ from a mafia with like, a prepared approach

I was really impressed with gacha mafia and really unimpressed with our rand together. Your approach to this game seems really different from that one, especially because if you're scum here you're doing some kind of carrying play and you were collaborative in our game together (which I can't find, I have so many vibes from it but so little in the way of physical notes >_< ).
I definitely was way more wary of you between gacha and that last game

fair enough with regards to a normal blitz iv even though we won - far from my best game

[demona]

So want to get a headstart? I don't know if you've outed reads yet, but if there's anything you want me to look at in particular LMK

want to make sure people are okay with the arrangement first and no one storms in screaming I OBJECT!!! but other than that fine

hmm what do you make

of chara and faker both seemingly not wanting me in the keep

without really stating why

[demona]

i did explain why i put you where i did!

i guess i meant more of not explaining why it would make us better to be at the wall than the keep

[demona]

So want to get a headstart? I don't know if you've outed reads yet, but if there's anything you want me to look at in particular LMK

want to make sure people are okay with the arrangement first and no one storms in screaming I OBJECT!!! but other than that fine

hmm what do you make

of chara and faker both seemingly not wanting me in the keep

without really stating why

I think they've both had plausible explanations but also that type of explanation isn't really particularly hard for scum to fake I don't think. That particular doesn't move the needle for me much.

do you think i would be less fun

than absinthe

for you and faker?

[demona]

i did explain why i put you where i did!

i guess i meant more of not explaining why it would make us better to be at the wall than the keep

i don't have a strong opinion on either, the keep suggestion i put forth had to do with the keep being the easiest to solve and therefore warranting the more difficult to solve players. i think you'll be easier so putting you in the 3p LyLo makes sense to me, especially in the scenario where i'm there with Prism. frankly i think any argument of "i should be in the Keep" is a good one because of that, townhunting is just easier and it's just mathematically better for town in the Keep.

though that location assignment doesn't reflect much more than a passing "let's put this here and see what everyone says", it's not anything i'd stick to.

well yeah you’ve already moved on to chara/isis/x

[demona]

So want to get a headstart? I don't know if you've outed reads yet, but if there's anything you want me to look at in particular LMK

want to make sure people are okay with the arrangement first and no one storms in screaming I OBJECT!!! but other than that fine

hmm what do you make

of chara and faker both seemingly not wanting me in the keep

without really stating why

I think they've both had plausible explanations but also that type of explanation isn't really particularly hard for scum to fake I don't think. That particular doesn't move the needle for me much.

do you think i would be less fun

than absinthe

for you and faker?

hm when you put it that way it sounds rude if I say yes!

I think I'm more

confident

reading absinthe than you but I don't think it'd be unfun and for me personally maybe even more interesting to see what would happen if that were the assignment.

oh i do not think it’d be rude, like i understand that everyone excited to be playing with eachother and so forth and that i am not always the easiest to interact with

[demona]

VOTE: wafer wall

[demona]

?????????????

shiki what the duck

?

my second preference as i think i just get iced at the gate

like i don’t really get how that’s upsetting to you as you’ve just stated your preference for the keep and for me to not be in the keep

unless you think me just waiting was correct which okay maybe

but i thought about your post and whether or not it’d be reasonable for us to be together and

shrug

[demona]

?????????????

shiki what the duck

?

my second preference as i think i just get iced at the gate

like i don’t really get how that’s upsetting to you as you’ve just stated your preference for the keep and for me to not be in the keep

unless you think me just waiting was correct which okay maybe

but i thought about your post and whether or not it’d be reasonable for us to be together and

shrug

*in the keep with you

i meant

[demona]

i don't mind being at the Wall with demona and Isis, but i am surprised by the vote there. there was nothing really preventing you from voting for Keep if you wanted to go there and wanted to vote right now.

? do you disagree with faker’s logic with regards to preference for faker and catboi to be at the keep?

[demona]

It's more that you really seemed to want to be at the Keep, and it made sense for you to be there with people who can read you. I'm not sure about your hesitation on the Gate because similar problems crop up in Wall: If you're not clear in Gate but the clear can read you you're fine, if you're the clear you have to vote correctly. In Wall you will still have to vote correctly.

i did want to be at the keep i just deferred

??? my hesitation is that i would be confirmed

and we don’t really gain anything from that or at the very least i do not so i would prefer someone else to be confirmed

[demona]

you're putting a lot of stock into Faker's opinions, is there a townread there?

idk not really no

[demona]

If you're scum and trying to put one over on me I hopefully figure it out before then but right now I don't think you'd target the keep if that was your plan.

how likely do you think it is that scum!faker would have actually been targeting the keep rather than counting on me locking in the keep and you all going elsewhere?

[demona]

So want to get a headstart? I don't know if you've outed reads yet, but if there's anything you want me to look at in particular LMK

want to make sure people are okay with the arrangement first and no one storms in screaming I OBJECT!!! but other than that fine

hmm what do you make

of chara and faker both seemingly not wanting me in the keep

without really stating why

I think they've both had plausible explanations but also that type of explanation isn't really particularly hard for scum to fake I don't think. That particular doesn't move the needle for me much.

do you think i would be less fun

than absinthe

for you and faker?

I'm not sure "fun" is the operant word for that!

i guess i do not really think there is actually a universe where demona/catboi/faker would have ever played out in the keep regardless unless one of catboi/faker is mafia and the mafia somehow ended up putting two members of their team into one of keep/gate and zero into the other which seems unlikely because mafia team would have had a lot of room to maneuver

[demona]

So want to get a headstart? I don't know if you've outed reads yet, but if there's anything you want me to look at in particular LMK

want to make sure people are okay with the arrangement first and no one storms in screaming I OBJECT!!! but other than that fine

hmm what do you make

of chara and faker both seemingly not wanting me in the keep

without really stating why

I think they've both had plausible explanations but also that type of explanation isn't really particularly hard for scum to fake I don't think. That particular doesn't move the needle for me much.

do you think i would be less fun

than absinthe

for you and faker?

I'm not sure "fun" is the operant word for that!

i guess i do not really think there is actually a universe where demona/catboi/faker would have ever played out in the keep regardless unless one of catboi/faker is mafia and the mafia somehow ended up putting two members of their team into one of keep/gate and zero into the other which seems unlikely because mafia team would have had a lot of room to maneuver

right like if catboi/faker both town then the mafia would have been forced to switch one of us

if catboi/faker both mafia then the mafia would have been forced to switch one of them

and even though they both have stated lack of confidence in reading me i really do believe that if one of catboi/faker is mafia and the other town that the town would have found me

and! i kinda think they both would likely reach that conclusion as well and swap me

like yeah faker has been wrong on me before but if faker town in that situation i assume faker would abandon the hands off approach and we'd probably both end up frustrated but we'd win

[demona]

Ah, you wanted skitter and demona together

eh i'm not really sure how much sense this makes outside of the keep

like i think faker only wanted this because skitter said she reads me well (which she does! though i have only ever been town in games with skitter i believe but that's the relevant part here anyway)

and i would like this because skitter is also generally patient with me

but it's not like i have a particularly good track record of reading skitter

[demona]

^^^

but the second sentence says that I'm going to defer to skitter/demona and advocate for pairing them up in a minigame if they think they can read each other well.

[demona]

keep/gate

*wall/gate

[demona]

A lot of the posts I was trying to read were a bit too hard to follow like if the a goes to b goes to c but b is c and b should go wall etc
We need more mafia gaemplay

but the b to c is potentially sortable mafia gameplay

like if you/chara are both town and you follow through with coming to the wall, then mafia would have to switch one of us

so mafia might want to disrupt this

which only faker has really suggested anything different i believe but there were other plausible reasons for this and it wasn’t a hard push or anything

or the mafia might play around knowing they’d have to switch

and if one of you/chara are mafia then i think mafia would be comfortable with you locking in (though the non-you/chara mafias might not say so of course) and then weighing each of your approaches to doing so et cetera becomes relevant if none of us are switched

also applies to potential faker/catboi/absinthe keep

(and i kinda think everyone as mafia is more in practice of believably giving/discussing reads)

i guess i am mostly saying i do not mind more discussion of others’ alignments but i do not think one should come at the cost of the other

[demona]

I realize that you might not have known demona went to the wall, but I’m curious about your thoughts there. I’m on record as having a town read on demona. It’s the only read I’ve unequivocally stated. I’ve mentioned a suspicion of you. Now I know my reads can change quite a lot, especially overnight, but your thought there that you’d be the decider doesn’t line up with the thoughts I’ve given.

I'm not sure exactly why absinthe didn't clarify this, and focused more on the reads portion, but the way I interpreted the original post was that she was saying that she would be the decider due to being the consensus scumread among the Keep players (scummiest person decides is the standard Keep play). Which I think does line up with what you're saying here.

It feels meaningful, somehow, that absinthe focused on analyzing your reads portion of this rather than clearing up what looks to me like a misunderstanding. But maybe I'm the one misunderstanding something here?

I'm pretty sure I already expressed this thought well before Tempest's post, so that doesn't appear to be what needs clarification.

How do you interpret her saying:

1) she townreads demona
2) she mentioned a suspicion of you
2) therefore, you being the decider doesn't line up with the thoughts she's given

That seems to directly imply that, regardless of her reads and whether she stated them earlier or not, she thinks that her suspicion of you is incompatible with you being the decider, no?

It's the nature of the Keep to me. Just like any other group of three, if Demona, Tammy and I had gone to the keep, then two of us know that we are individually town regardless of which of the other two are scum. And I feel like it comes down to me in that instance because I either am townreading Tammy into the stratosphere or I'm having a nervous breakdown over which of them is town. And if Tammy is town, then given her reads right now, she'd make the wrong choice in that threesome. I feel like it would fall on me one way or another. Tammy and I both waffle a LOT. But I'm pretty sure I'm more decisive than she is in the early game. In fortress, it's ALL early game from my perspective. But maybe I'm totally wrong about how it would play out. And when I was thinking that a Demona/Tammy/me Keep it looked to me like it would be easier than it does now. I really didn't expect her to straight up scumread me at this point. I'm not blaming her for the read. I'm fighting off some major tilt and I'm well aware it's bleeding into my play, but I'm still going to keep it light in this game.

That's was convoluted to write because of the layers of hypotheticals and my own re-thoughts based on Tammy's posts today.

At the moment I can't imagine being the player who is voted in the Keep. So my agency comes down to getting my reads right. Otherwise I'm putting the weight of the minigame on the other town player.

When town, Tammy really shines out as town IMO. We usually have a few bobbles and misinterpretations, but those bobbles almost always have resolved, usually the next time we interact.

I expected (and kinda still expect) us to eventually connect pretty well in this game if she's town. Despite Tammy's assertion that she's never in my top town reads, that's hasn't really been the case in our last few games. WH13, Diffusion, Tenet, all three of those games my read of her settled well before hers did of me (and in Diffusion she never expressed a townread of my hydra. Her hydra partner did). In all three of those games she was high tier town to me (in Tenet even before her hydra were mod confirmed town I was townreading them). We meet as hydras a lot and my partners' thoughts play into my reads of her, but often I'm the first to get there. The Smokefilled game probably deserves mention too, but the dethy had a huge impact on my reads. She was my second-highest townread in the dethy, starting very early on.

hm

i do not really understand how your approach to being the decider at keep with me/tempest would not involve, ya know, sorting me in anyway?

[demona]

like how would it be

either tempest is town!

or

you would not know who is town!

pedit: continuation of last post didn’t want to obnoxious quote

[demona]

If you're scum and trying to put one over on me I hopefully figure it out before then but right now I don't think you'd target the keep if that was your plan.

how likely do you think it is that scum!faker would have actually been targeting the keep rather than counting on me locking in the keep and you all going elsewhere?

Fwiw there was no indication faker was imminently trying to get you into keep and your selection was a kneejerk reaction out of proportion to the actual discussion being had

Like idk why you keep acting like faker was trying to herd you to keep, that wasnf happening

i don’t really think faker was trying to herd me to keep

i was asking catboi that question because it seemed like catboi was saying faker wouldn’t suggest potentially going to the keep if faker was scum

and so i was wondering how, like, committed(?) catboi thought faker was to that suggestion

[demona]

You're misinterpreting 677. I think she's saying what if I was positioning for Keep publicly but secretly hoping that demona would lock it, giving me the free way out, and her actually locking Wall made it fall through.

(I think, maybe your interpretation is correct)

yeah this like if faker!scum this super plausible so it seemed odd to me that catboi was putting weight into faker targeting keep

[demona]

You're misinterpreting 677. I think she's saying what if I was positioning for Keep publicly but secretly hoping that demona would lock it, giving me the free way out, and her actually locking Wall made it fall through.

(I think, maybe your interpretation is correct)

?????????????

shiki what the duck

?

my second preference as i think i just get iced at the gate

like i don’t really get how that’s upsetting to you as you’ve just stated your preference for the keep and for me to not be in the keep

unless you think me just waiting was correct which okay maybe

but i thought about your post and whether or not it’d be reasonable for us to be together and

shrug

I thought that this was what you were trying to say with this

faker stated a preference for the keep and for me to not also be in the keep if faker was

and like

like i could think of reasons that it was a good idea for the three of us to go there but i could like ‘hear’ faker saying NO

and my going to wall felt like the correct solution

but if everyone wants to yell at me in postgame i understand

[demona]

I realize that you might not have known demona went to the wall, but I’m curious about your thoughts there. I’m on record as having a town read on demona. It’s the only read I’ve unequivocally stated. I’ve mentioned a suspicion of you. Now I know my reads can change quite a lot, especially overnight, but your thought there that you’d be the decider doesn’t line up with the thoughts I’ve given.

I'm not sure exactly why absinthe didn't clarify this, and focused more on the reads portion, but the way I interpreted the original post was that she was saying that she would be the decider due to being the consensus scumread among the Keep players (scummiest person decides is the standard Keep play). Which I think does line up with what you're saying here.

It feels meaningful, somehow, that absinthe focused on analyzing your reads portion of this rather than clearing up what looks to me like a misunderstanding. But maybe I'm the one misunderstanding something here?

I'm pretty sure I already expressed this thought well before Tempest's post, so that doesn't appear to be what needs clarification.

How do you interpret her saying:

1) she townreads demona
2) she mentioned a suspicion of you
2) therefore, you being the decider doesn't line up with the thoughts she's given

That seems to directly imply that, regardless of her reads and whether she stated them earlier or not, she thinks that her suspicion of you is incompatible with you being the decider, no?

I'm so lost, aren't suspicious people compatible with being deciders

i think coral/tempest were saying

‘why wouldn’t tempest simply be the decider by voting tempest’s townread, demona’

and the answer to that from a town!absinthe perspective would simply be that tempest was not town and therefore would not actually decide that, at which point i would think absinthe would realize tempest was not town and tada!

but from a town!tempest perspective it makes sense for tempest to simply vote for me and win the keep

[demona]

does anyone...

want

to go to Gate?

I do now that it sounds very available since 99.9 repeating percent of my interest is with who I go with

i guess i don’t really understand why you wouldn’t want to come to wall with me if you’re the most sure that i am town and the wall would therefore be more or less solved from your perspective without one of us being switched

but also as i said to catboi earlier i get that i am not always easy to play with and such and if your interest is solely who you go with yeah i get it

i dunno how, like, qualified i would be to sort you/chara but i feel like it would make sense to come to wall from your perspective outside of the people aspect yeah

[demona]

for ydrasse mostly

[demona]

[demona]

i mean, i have like ~thoughts~ on most of the slots that could potentially be alignment related but like, mm

i dunno if i would say cleared up so much as i have taken those into consideration; how do you think i am reading you now?

[demona]

like is there really benefit to me rambling about how like, skitter did something similar to her first few posts where she scumread me and then townread my follow up posts while i was trying to interact with her about it as scum before and that’s why i asked about her likelihood to disengage from me wanted to feel if her response felt like knowledgeable

while skitter and others discuss whether or not skitter should come to wall

when i also think that that discussion is likely to weigh just as much to me as other thought

[demona]

like is there really benefit to me rambling about how like, skitter did something similar to her first few posts where she scumread me and then townread my follow up posts while i was trying to interact with her about it as scum before and that’s why i asked about her likelihood to disengage from me wanted to feel if her response felt like knowledgeable

while skitter and others discuss whether or not skitter should come to wall

when i also think that that discussion is likely to weigh just as much to me as other thought

aware would probably be a better word than knowledgeable

like she knew that’s what she was doing/why i was asking

[demona]

i dunno if i would say cleared up so much as i have taken those into consideration; how do you think i am reading you now?

I don't really know. The circleback question is both to see your answer, and to nip the issue from BoI/Slaughter Hour with misunderstanding my angle entirely, and persisting through it, in the bud rather than have it cause issues later down the line if you were scared to continue going back/forth anticipating a similar snap.

yeah i don’t really have the ability to like eliminate those thoughts i had entirely but i did think your reasoning was plausible or likely even

and i figured you were circling back for this reason

but that doesn’t make my brain go

‘well now that it seems somewhat likely x was occurring, y is impossible!!’

but i am trying very hard to be reasonable and not push the ‘there’s a chance it is this!’ type things too much

[demona]

like is there really benefit to me rambling about how like, skitter did something similar to her first few posts where she scumread me and then townread my follow up posts while i was trying to interact with her about it as scum before and that’s why i asked about her likelihood to disengage from me wanted to feel if her response felt like knowledgeable

while skitter and others discuss whether or not skitter should come to wall

when i also think that that discussion is likely to weigh just as much to me as other thought

I mean, yes? Do you think she's had other points where she's been more town/less town?

If you think there's an advantage in holding most of your thoughts for tomorrow then you can. I'd probably disagree but that's just my style.

hm, it like, adds additional information into others’ decisions that is very difficult for me to weigh

there were points regarding her placement preference and moving around the status quo i was a bit worried about but she stated a preference for the wall and not the keep way back at the beginning

[demona]

We can revisit it tomorrow, I'm more worried about it if I get swapped into Wall but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

at least if you’re town you’d get to solve with lots of information in this situation

but yeah i understand your preference not to

[demona]

i believe in you!

[demona]

(And am finding it really interesting that i'm getting vague nondescript opposition to that)

i am not opposed in case you thought my recent posts were voicing opposition to you joining the wall

like in theory i could maybe understand absinthe’s position that she was worried about scum!you potentially wanting to fool me but it seemed like she was saying that scum!absinthe would want to fool me because i am unfamiliar with absinthe but! i am not unfamiliar with you

but also like, if absinthe is worried about my ability to find the scums due to unfamiliarity with me, who would be the potential scums in this game that she wouldn’t be worried about coming to wall?

and i don’t fully understand isis’s objection you have correctly read me as town pretty consistently and i am town here and isis believes i am town so it’d just be one way threat

but also maybe i am not understanding

and like i said to faker we offer nice benefit of informed solving here at the wall

[demona]

well potentially informed - still think there’s a decent chance i am moved

[demona]

If there's contention over who wants Wall v. Gate I'm comfortable just letting demona choose who she wants to bring TBH.

Maybe I'll see the answer and start throwing ????s at her but we'll see.

less informative for me to choose i think

but!

yeah i think you’d probably ???? my choices

like i would still steal catboi if given the power to do so if there wasn’t a swap

but trying to account for the swap makes everything messy

[demona]

From your perspective, do you mind walking me through why that makes sense to you as town one more time?

Is this to me? There's a much better chance I actually help town in the Keep than in the other two minigames given the current lay of the land. We've got about 2 days left so not much time for the lay of the land to shift.

I don't think catboi has expressed an actual opinion about me going to the keep, which is why I'm still holding off.

hm

it is strange to me

how accepting of reads on you you are right now

like your general preference for keep and the other iteration you played would indicate that you could just fix that by posting if the reads were coming from other towns

i guess like

you seem not very skeptical of it being a coordinated mafia effort to neutralize you

which i feel like, on paper would be possible and if i knew i was town in your position i would be very

!!!

ya know?

but maybe it is not a fair thought because

you are not me

and i am not you

[demona]

(And am finding it really interesting that i'm getting vague nondescript opposition to that)

i am not opposed in case you thought my recent posts were voicing opposition to you joining the wall

like in theory i could maybe understand absinthe’s position that she was worried about scum!you potentially wanting to fool me but it seemed like she was saying that scum!absinthe would want to fool me because i am unfamiliar with absinthe but! i am not unfamiliar with you

but also like, if absinthe is worried about my ability to find the scums due to unfamiliarity with me, who would be the potential scums in this game that she wouldn’t be worried about coming to wall?

and i don’t fully understand isis’s objection you have correctly read me as town pretty consistently and i am town here and isis believes i am town so it’d just be one way threat

but also maybe i am not understanding

and like i said to faker we offer nice benefit of informed solving here at the wall

It's just a waste, anyone can find you town, dont use master ball on a pidgey

As much as I dont have great games with skitter i believe in the conventional stance about her general proficiency. And probably wall is mostly solved this game.
It may be a thought where if I zoomed out there's not actually room to include such a preference alongside my other preferences let alone other people having preferences

if i were swapped to keep who would you want to be the three players left at the wall? in terms of likelihood for town to win the wall

(also in the case of town!skitter, skitter’s proficiency would be a plus if noone was swapped because she would be able to solve the other two games knowing i was town and the third person at wall was therefore mafia)

[demona]

just going to assume you’re doing the due diligence thing

(not that it was directed towards me anyway)

pedit: @faker

[demona]

I'm pretty curious about people taking demona-town at face value. Demona isn't deadweight and the pattern/style of questions is pretty typical.

The most town thing to me is just the "me-town" centric perspective that is akin to Slaughter Hour, but I view that with a very heavy dose of skepticism.

I also don't think giving up going to the Keep is a big L for demona-scum, if it's even an L at all.

but also like

is there any point to this other than to say,

but wait everyone, demona is not altogether incompetent as a scums

are you

really

worried about me? do i

actually

feel the same there to you?

okayokayokay

sorry

[demona]

P-Edit: It was inviting people to flesh out the read more, which didn't happen. I actually think this game looks more like Slaughter Hour than Trust Fall, where content was more scarce and reactive. I put little stock in that with low sample size.

I wouldn't really call it worry. The idea was to sow some doubt in anyone being lazy, but I was more curious if anyone would reply.

A simple way to put it is that 1052 is equally about you and about the players townreading you off of little.

this is why i tried not to comment on it because like

like i can maybe see some value in this especially because it is sometimes difficult for me to tell the difference between town strongly townreading me and mafia who know i am town

but also

and you can yell at me for this,

but...



i am pretty okay with everyone being completely lazy about actually reading me here and just assuming i am town

[demona]

(and it seemed nearly impossible to me that town!you would have looked at that game and this game and reached the conclusion that they were exactly the same)

[demona]

I think there's a lot of value in interrogating reads on you regardless of what they are, but you probably already know that and what you do is up to you.

me knowing that there is a lot of value in this is why i would understand that being a frustrating stance for me to take

sorry now i'm just thinking about this and i did not mean to imply that you do or should just yell at people

sigh sorry

[demona]

They're definitely not the same and I highlighted a difference

in that post

about the most important difference to me, which was the contrast with Slaughter Hour.

I don't really want to go too much further on this at the moment. If you believe that I should have you as hardtown because of the differences I've highlighted here (town-shiki centric perspective in Slaughter Hour, more reactive in Trust Fall) or some other thing I should have gleaned, then OK.

I'm a lot more curious to hear about other people's thoughts on why you're town than debate myself about why you're nulltown over hardtown when the answer is "I'm not confident in your range or in reading you at the current time."

nono when i said that i was referring to my reaction to your original post linking the trust fall game and saying my approach to questioning was similar

i do not believe that you

should

have me as hardtown here i would simply be okay with it if you did

as always (at least when i'm town) i would prefer everyone sort me upfront as much as possible so whoever is town can work from more correct view of the game and such

i actually kinda think your implication that i could have just lifted the perspective from slaughter hour and applied it here was fine and logical

[demona]

how you constructed your account name

[demona]

I hope you're having fun too.

i am!

Is it coinkydink

would be very unlikely if it were

there is even an angela in gargoyles as well, demona's daughter

...Is that also where the angela account came from?

no angela is mostly named for angela sarafyan, who is featured in both avatars

[demona]

and the locations and signatures are all references to this song:



which is very dear to me / thus will take the opportunity to share

[demona]

What's bizarre is the insistence that I'm scary and slippery and too dangerous to let go anywhere else but also deflated and playing like a chump. It can't be both things.

I don't believe you right now, sorry. I think that you can turn into that at a moment's notice, and I think you have some control over which shows up.

hm

[demona]

re: catboi motivation et cetera

idk nevermind i don’t think trying to apply myself to this situation is going to work at all

at like 95% i end up thinking other players may be reading my notes pt or referencing things they are unlikely to be familiar with and that there is GREAT MEANING to every single post

but at 5% i can read 30 pages and come away with absolutely no thoughts

but none of that is really a factor of motivation on any level

and the discussion was more about motivation as scum anyway

[demona]

wait chara don’t lock in quite yet

[demona]

please

[demona]

would i end the day if i did?? someone tell me!! i want to vote with Isis!

yes it would end the day that’s why i asked you to wait a bit

am happy with you coming just not quite yet

[demona]

also Isis, why did you choose then to vote?

am also interested in the answer to this

[demona]

Chara/catboi/coral

Pedit then why does catboi just, like, accept going to keep? Idk why he loses motivation right then

Pedit2 i think i read all of that pressure retroactively, it didnt seem so strong to me after the fact but fair enuf

mm why isis town?

[demona]

Did demona resolve whatever demona wanted us to wait for?

i am okay with the day ending;

mostly wanted to think about isis voting while chara was present seemingly wanting chara to end the day at that moment

and also wanted to see how tempest would return

and if anyone would say what i am about to say

which is,

from a win the game perspective, i am pretty sure tempest is supposed to lock in wall or chara gate

due to the general lack of squirming et cetera

but interfering with isis/chara enjoyment of the game seems +(

[demona]

ah yes supposedly

maybe everyone misreading

(they’re not)

[demona]

I'm not sure i'm following what she's trying to say

if everyone fine with it being locked in as it was and as was proposed some time ago and there are two people left to lock in it seems much more likely to force two mafia into one location if those players are switched, yes?

like you said you thought 1/1/1 was likely as proposed

would this not make that less likely?

[demona]

do you think tempest/chara are definitely both town? or that mafia would be very likely already locked in?

pedit: @skitter

[demona]

isis already locked in

[demona]

yeah interfering with isis/chara enjoyment is definitely the +((( aspect

[demona]

for ydrasse mostly part 2

[demona]

hm

first thought is that there might have been two mafia in either the gate or the keep pre-swap

tempest town so if gate that would have meant skitter/coral were mafia

if chara the third that makes end of day one pretty funny

pedit: tempest is the clear?

[demona]

hmm

[demona]

LMAO okay yes that makes a lot more sense

idk i know if you’re town you want to not be a paranoid mess but things like this make it impossible

[demona]

LMAO okay yes that makes a lot more sense

idk i know if you’re town you want to not be a paranoid mess but things like this make it impossible

you want me* not to be a paranoid mess lol

[demona]

Isis is scum at... i want to say 80% confidence, which for me is very high. this is the outcome i expected if demona wasn't swapped out, though that doesn't mean i'm any more prepared for the next phase.

feel free to vote for isis

i would be super happy to play as confirmed (noone is

really

going to argue that i stayed in the game as a scum to, like, manipulate the other games or whatever, right?)

[demona]

I think voting for isis is a loss there for town

so you think i am mafia…?

[demona]

I would prefer on me since i know i'm town but eh

if a vote is placed on not you and you are town then town loses the keep

unless the ‘eh’ was like,

like ‘well we all lose sometimes’

in which case yes but also! i would rather not

[demona]

I would prefer on me since i know i'm town but eh

if a vote is placed on not you and you are town then town loses the keep

unless the ‘eh’ was like,

like ‘well we all lose sometimes’

in which case yes but also! i would rather not

there's two town in the keep! if skitter's town she can win the keep by voting the other town.

but skitter placing a vote does not involve a vote being placed on skitter

if skitter is town

and either other player places a vote, we can assume that player is not mafia

because the town player would then simply hammer themself and mafia would lose

so if skitter is town, and the player placing a vote on not skitter is town,

then the player being voted is mafia

and thus! we do not want this

so i was trying to determine where the ‘eh’ comes from

[demona]

I did think it was ffery confirmed at first and had egg on my face lol.

See demona IT HAPPENS THANKS

i know it happens but how does anyone ever stop the voice that goes,

what if faker knows they confirmed tempest and is ‘misreading’, what if what if what if

(also can’t wait for you to say mm i dunno if demona’s town and me to point to this and be like faker you were just talking to me as though you know i am town see see you took my thoughts re:your entrance to day two at face value)

((which to be clear i know you often do so as town))

[demona]

I liked Coral's overnight post. I think absinthe should be the elimination.
My minigame is still most likely scum!Chara when laid out flat but demona taking victory laps and not sorting is leaning me back. I've seen demona stop doing things when ahead as scum, I guess I've paid less attention to whether that's happened as town. I'd like it better if my demona townread was a cord of two or three strands instead of just being "demona's own arc putting self into a minigame" though I still view that as a strong strand.
Chara what kind of imminence do you have on voting me? In one breath you say you want finding demonascum together to be a real possibility but in another you keep speaking with enough finality that that wouldn't really be possible, not because I'm literally hammered but because town!you couldn't be keeping your mind all that open with a tinkaton hammer on your shoulder.
Pedit: ok yeah more finality, just discussing the next minigames instead of most of my ketchup Do you view our minigame as over? It feels like the nudge of difference between demona having a very good protown arc and being informed

eh maybe this is fair to me

but also would rather play isis votes chara or chara votes isis and everyone solves as if demona confirmed

will do the magnifying glass thing at some point probably

but i don’t really see how what i am doing is ‘taking victory laps’ in anyway

so probably only partially fair

i don’t really know what i am saying here i guess

[demona]

maybe run at me if you’re town and you’re really worried about me do the thing until you’re not worried anymore instead of waiting for me to do the thing if the issue you’re having is mainly that i am not currently doing the thing

pedit: continuation of last post

[demona]

maybe run at me if you’re town and you’re really worried about me do the thing until you’re not worried anymore instead of waiting for me to do the thing if the issue you’re having is mainly that i am not currently doing the thing

pedit: continuation of last post

Maybe I've been preoccupied by Chara but I also can't remember any of your posts about other minigames

haven’t really given extensive thoughts beyond that i thought it was probably 2-1-0 or 0-1-2 before the swap originally based on the swap but mostly just a feeling

haven’t spent much time trying to sort between coral/absinthe yet

don’t really understand skitter’s approach to keep but eh

hm

guess i kinda don’t understand what your expectation of me here is

[demona]

maybe run at me if you’re town and you’re really worried about me do the thing until you’re not worried anymore instead of waiting for me to do the thing if the issue you’re having is mainly that i am not currently doing the thing

pedit: continuation of last post

Maybe I've been preoccupied by Chara but I also can't remember any of your posts about other minigames

haven’t really given extensive thoughts beyond that i thought it was probably 2-1-0 or 0-1-2 before the swap originally based on the swap but mostly just a feeling

haven’t spent much time trying to sort between coral/absinthe yet

don’t really understand skitter’s approach to keep but eh

hm

guess i kinda don’t understand what your expectation of me here is

I kind of expect needing to poke some for town!you or for your thoughts to develop slowly. Declaring yourself obvtown and asking to see a crossvote is the more divergent thing that in my mind is a lot more vivid with what scum!demona tries to do in games compared to town!demona. I'm maybe burying the lead or confusing the point a little in highlighting the former. The former is just the reason I'm gonna be saying nty to a fastcrossvote

the crossvote and the ‘obvtown’ thing are just because of the setup

it doesn’t take me time to develop a read on myself nor do you need to poke me for that

can look at the trust fall prism moderated or the one faker and i were town in if you want to see similar changes in my play based on the setup

but…

if you think my approach is divergent towards scum!me, why were you townreading it?

not sure if i am misunderstanding here am definitely distracted but like

isn’t that very divergence the one cord you were talking about earlier?

[demona]

maybe run at me if you’re town and you’re really worried about me do the thing until you’re not worried anymore instead of waiting for me to do the thing if the issue you’re having is mainly that i am not currently doing the thing

pedit: continuation of last post

Maybe I've been preoccupied by Chara but I also can't remember any of your posts about other minigames

haven’t really given extensive thoughts beyond that i thought it was probably 2-1-0 or 0-1-2 before the swap originally based on the swap but mostly just a feeling

haven’t spent much time trying to sort between coral/absinthe yet

don’t really understand skitter’s approach to keep but eh

hm

guess i kinda don’t understand what your expectation of me here is

I kind of expect needing to poke some for town!you or for your thoughts to develop slowly. Declaring yourself obvtown and asking to see a crossvote is the more divergent thing that in my mind is a lot more vivid with what scum!demona tries to do in games compared to town!demona. I'm maybe burying the lead or confusing the point a little in highlighting the former. The former is just the reason I'm gonna be saying nty to a fastcrossvote

the crossvote and the ‘obvtown’ thing are just because of the setup

it doesn’t take me time to develop a read on myself nor do you need to poke me for that

can look at the trust fall prism moderated or the one faker and i were town in if you want to see similar changes in my play based on the setup

but…

if you think my approach is divergent towards scum!me, why were you townreading it?

not sure if i am misunderstanding here am definitely distracted but like

isn’t that very divergence the one cord you were talking about earlier?

You're literally doing the opposite of what you were getting townread for day1, instead of being confident you will later dayplay and always get townread for it, you're asking for things to get locked in [[perhaps in case you don't get townread for later dayplay?]]. They both use the word "town" but they are opposites.

oh i get what you’re saying maybe

and other than you i don’t really think that’s the only thing i was being townread for,

but i am not really any less confident in that just want to speed up the process of getting there so town can work from correct view of game

[demona]

sigh kinda feel like this possibly an advantageous thing

but one of skitter/catboi have to be town so i am here et cetera

weird that catboi also states that the only thing i am being townread for is me saying i am town when that simply isn’t true

but i am here-ish and i kinda just feel like for whichever of you is town that that feeling is mostly because i haven’t been able to be as present today as i sometimes am even when posting

[demona]

sigh kinda feel like this possibly an advantageous thing

but one of skitter/catboi have to be town so i am here et cetera

weird that catboi also states that the only thing i am being townread for is me saying i am town when that simply isn’t true

but i am here-ish and i kinda just feel like for whichever of you is town that that feeling is mostly because i haven’t been able to be as present today as i sometimes am even when posting

not taking notes so could be easily wrong but that was my impression

I'm not going to say I'm confident on your game but I do see you being scum as a possibility here (and entirely recognize that my timing in stating such might seem suspicious, but am not really concerned with that at all for obvious reasons)

i guess i don’t expect town!you to view my being mafia as an impossibility or anything but i guess this doesn’t really feel like you trying to sort me rather than just say ‘oh yes i am also suspicious of demona’ and saying the thing that isis has been saying the ‘oh the only towny thing about demona is she said she was town’ when coral and others laid out more than that

and!! at the time coral did so isis agreed

so it is like

..!

but also been resigned to phone posting and i was just mostly reading the game today

so, shrug

[demona]

981 seems very inrange for anyone because it's meta pattern recognition. The others are +town content I think.

I really townread demona the most because demona's early play advances a town!demona wincon and only works in a soloQ way for scum!demona and I don't think that's how demona plays scum (and it doesn't work as well that way as it does for just town)
Which is kind of like an expansion of the "demona is centering a town!demona perspective thing" but I there's easier less abrasive things demona could have emulated if scum

^

isis post i was referring to that agrees with coral read then reiterates the town!demona because of approach thing

(which still i don’t really understand how isis thinks it generally takes me time to develop reads as town and i need to be poked but in this case her needing to do so is scum indicative because i also suggested chara vote for isis because i know i am town like i don’t get how these things are in opposition to eachother nor how my matching her expectation of town!me outside of my read of myself(?) is potentially scum indicative

like it altogether just doesn’t really make sense to me and makes me feel like her focus on my approach day one being the main reason i was town may have been to say ah different day no longer town but idk

idk can someone else maybe explain to me if it makes sense to you please)

[demona]

Isis is scum at... i want to say 80% confidence, which for me is very high. this is the outcome i expected if demona wasn't swapped out, though that doesn't mean i'm any more prepared for the next phase.

feel free to vote for isis

i would be super happy to play as confirmed (noone is

really

going to argue that i stayed in the game as a scum to, like, manipulate the other games or whatever, right?)

On reread this is actually p bad imo

it just makes everything less frustrating for me

like you’ve played with me enough to know i don’t exactly react super well to being suspected/pressured et cetera and often end up making a mess of things and to just skip the potential of that altogether would be pretty ideal to me

do you really think that post outweighs everything you were previously townreading me for?

or?

[demona]

and then all of the towns in the other games are working from the same perspective as me towards solving the wall

and that also seems ideal to me

[demona]

and then all of the towns in the other games are working from the same perspective as me towards solving the wall

and that also seems ideal to me

like if keep and gate is resolved in a split and it comes down to wall

and i know who were town in the other games and their thoughts regarding

it just seems like

so much easier to me

[demona]

1094 is still about the game plan of demona putting self in a game and demanding people pay attention to demona and townread demona later.

I'm super confused about "gotcha Isis you just said there's only one reason to townread demona" and then digging up a post with "Which is kind of like an expansion of <original reason>"


It's mostly par for course for demona to not bare soul immediately d2. I'm saying that demanding a crossvote after opaque play and demanding a crossvote after transparent play are different and since demona did the former I'm that much more wary. If you're getting townread as scum "x townreads me" becomes this mental shortcut assumption and you don't really think about whether your recent posts express your alignment or not in the same way.

i was mostly referring to the top part where you agree with coral post

which isn’t at all about the one reason?

and catboi expanded that to say that your one reason was the only reason anyone was townreading me for

which, uh, it wasn’t

i also don’t think i ‘demanded’ anything

like chara voting for you is only a plus from my perspective and i am town so it feels kinda !!! that you’re saying it is like a change in my approach et cetera when it comes from the same thing

but also i am still not entirely sure i am following, so

[demona]

especially because like

mafia left the wall as it was right

so that means mafia had a plan for winning the wall or mafia could not

if the plan option then… this kinda feels like it could be part of that

but would that be preferable approach for scum!you rather than 1v1 chara?

i dunno

maybe because could always fallback to 1v1 chara plan

[demona]

*could not swap out of wall

(because 2 members at keep or gate)

[demona]

but also would rather play isis votes chara or chara votes isis and everyone solves as if demona confirmed

From my pov this is not a given and i dont really like you presenting your minigame this way

if either of them voted and i didn’t hammer would it still not become a given to you? like do you think i would actually be likely to remain in the game as mafia? like my point isn’t that i am currently confirmed to everyone else and everyone should solve as if i am, my point was that had chara voted for me i would be more or less confirmed and then everyone could solve as if i was and the game would be easier for me

unless you disagree with the premise that i would leave as mafia which is why i included it in the original post to chara

but like, i would and i think everyone knows i would

[demona]

like my main takeaway is kinda that i wish chara had voted for me when i asked to avoid all of

this

but anyway

[demona]

i have a *very* strong preference for catboi/prism to vote me over me voting prism

hm,

[demona]

Pedit yes i acknowledged what you want to say there already, it is somewhat hypocritical

it’s like,

part this

part that this is the approach i would have expected to the keep in the first place and it felt like you weren’t taking which is why i was ? about it earlier

and

a small part that it is like, also the approach you’d have to take to win as mafia

but then i’m the one being a hypocrite - town should want to be voted in keep

[demona]

[demona]

thankyou again for moderating

[demona]

ffery, who at this table was most likely to be way too into Twilight as an adolescent?

demona and most of her shared alts' avatars give that vibe.

[demona]

Scum pt?

viewtopic.php?f=90&t=90202