Open 870 | White Flag Mountainous | Postgame

[giuseppina]

this town where we live - day in, day out - will come to take pride in a mountain where we defeated life and insisted with passion

not to exist

[giuseppina]

Also Toto!

ah

you are familiar with all of the players i am not, it seems

and vice versa

minus gamma emerald - who we are both familiar with

[giuseppina]

minus gamma emerald - who we are both familiar with

and lucian apparently

First of all, some people here know this, and some don't, so in order to make it fair for everyone: this is an alt of Datisi.

i knew this but now i do not know if i knew this because it was outed in a previous game or because of shared posting traits (self-describing something as potentially egoistical, hyphenating you-town and town-you and things like that and using them interchangeably, et cetera)

[giuseppina]

actually no I’m still confused

i am familiar with everyone other than bluebloodedtoffee aubrey and toto

aubrey listed both of the non-aubrey parties i am unfamiliar with along with you as the players aubrey was familiar with

so minus you we had inverse familiarities

[giuseppina]

eh it’s like,

the only maybe towny thing you’ve done is 5 and 6 being separate posts

right like there’s potentially a process to you looking at the playerlist at that time as you made the post and such if i try to reverse engineer it

and there’s a decent chance you would have already been thinking about the playerlist beforehand if you were mafia

but then also it could be potentially partner indicative also that you didn’t think of toto as someone you had distant familiarity with at first due to recent interaction in scum pt and then realized your mistake

though i dunno how worried scum!aubrey would be about someone else in the game fact-checking aubrey's previous games

hm

i assume toto's conviction in the read here is partly for show regardless of toto’s alignment

[giuseppina]

Well I didn't expect to like someone by page 1. Those are some strange conspiracies you're considering that I'm not sure how quickly mafia would throw out haha.

i prefer to think of them as possibilities rather than conspiracies but much like shirou said i am town and bored (though kinda weird to me that that manifests itself as not posting in shirou’s case if shirou is actually town) thus thinking about posts and such but i dunno how town indicative that is for me - at the very least i am aware that that is how town me functions with regards to trying to determine the alignments of others so it likely wouldn’t be too too hard for me to do so here if i were mafia but no need to worry about that since i am not

[giuseppina]

giu (can I call you that?) seems like town rn

i would prefer pina if you would like to use a shorter name than giuseppina to refer to me

[giuseppina]

I ONCE AGAIN ATTEMPT TO LIVE PAST DAY 1

[giuseppina]

but much like shirou said i am town and bored

(though kinda weird to me that that manifests itself as not posting in shirou’s case if shirou is actually town)

*checks Scum PT for advice on what to say*

What I meant is that nowadays I like rolling mafia more than town.

*checks scumastina's notes (not actually a god but BASICALLY a god of scumplay)*

Thus, you should town read me for that.

oh you meant you were bored because you were town

i thought you meant like

‘i am town’ and ‘i am bored’

also i, uh, don’t really think you’d need help from the scum pt to address this if you’re mafia but! i wish not to be scumread for not understanding the joke so i will state that i do in fact understand the joke (and mastina isn’t in the game as far as i am aware)

[giuseppina]

oh i was unawares - it predates my arrival

[giuseppina]

maybe i did not understand the joke afterall

uh oh

[giuseppina]

I ONCE AGAIN ATTEMPT TO LIVE PAST DAY 1

this would be funny to say as mafia and cakes is a funny person

VOTE: SirCakez
That did vibed a bit salty to me, I did skim that dance game that just ended

wait

do you think this ‘saltiness’ as you say is more likely to come from rolling scum this game rather than being eliminated day one of the dance game?

[giuseppina]

i am familiar with everyone other than bluebloodedtoffee aubrey and toto

How are you judging familiarity? Because I have no clue who you are

oh i am angela, inutile, shiki among many other alts

i would not say i am super familiar with you but certainly aware of you and so forth

[giuseppina]

I ONCE AGAIN ATTEMPT TO LIVE PAST DAY 1

this would be funny to say as mafia and cakes is a funny person

VOTE: SirCakez
That did vibed a bit salty to me, I did skim that dance game that just ended

wait

do you think this ‘saltiness’ as you say is more likely to come from rolling scum this game rather than being eliminated day one of the dance game?

@gamma emerald

could you answer this though please

i can’t really say i felt altogether dissimilar to una regarding

[giuseppina]

Shirou seems like very unmotivated scum in this game, so if we leave them for last and kill their buddies we basically win.

i think if they're an alt they're a scumread, otherwise i buy that they're town

Y-y-you forgot me TGP???



Read my signature!

Remember me!

We played together in Something_Smart's Beetle Micro.

OH YOU'RE BUNNO OKAY OKAY EVERYTHING MAKES SENSE NOW

since we’re playing ‘who are you’ anyway

we played together in that micro normal datisi moderated which was very likely george bailey themed where iconeum and bingle were mafia (you were a checker i was inutile) and we played in silent star 3: royalty together (me as team rocket queen this time around)

guess i am also curious what you found to be stilted about my post like if it’s a process thing or a presentation thing you’re finding issue with

[giuseppina]

oh i am angela, inutile, shiki among many other alts

i would not say i am super familiar with you but certainly aware of you and so forth

So you are 'aware' of us when we don't know you. Spooky.

I think maybe i played with Shiki once in a game where it was in a hydra and i couldn't really tell when they were talking VS their partner so i basically don't know anything about you really.

most recently we encountered eachother in a micc moderated micro normal blitz i believe

isis and i were mafia - we miseliminated pookythemagicalbear day three to win after pookythemagicalbear miseliminated datisi for us if memory serves

[giuseppina]

I ONCE AGAIN ATTEMPT TO LIVE PAST DAY 1

this would be funny to say as mafia and cakes is a funny person

VOTE: SirCakez
That did vibed a bit salty to me, I did skim that dance game that just ended

wait

do you think this ‘saltiness’ as you say is more likely to come from rolling scum this game rather than being eliminated day one of the dance game?

@gamma emerald

could you answer this though please

i can’t really say i felt altogether dissimilar to una regarding

How do you say you agree w Una when she seems to have missed the mark on what I was saying tho

it felt like a weird post for you to be making there to me as well like you potentially saw others drawing attention to that sircakez post (me, aristeia) and wanted to say it was potentially scummy when a non-scummy reasoning seemed more plausible to me

[giuseppina]

I think Aubrey is above-rand likely to be town for 76.

oh me too

kinda think aristeia +town too tho

but mostly only for first two posts

[giuseppina]

I don’t think I know pina’s scumgame
But she’s been rather remarkable each time I’ve seen her so I predict I’ll know when I see it

you have but it was in that student council game kanna moderated (i was tracy flick) where alisae hydra replaced dkkoba and kept misgendering them and then yelled at me a lot in the scum pt and the game became more or less unplayable to me so i am not so sure how relevant of an example it would be anyway

[giuseppina]

that doesn't sound healthy

Perhaps one day, but people also smoke, drink and eat all sorts of delicious but long-term toxic food.

Life is short, you gotta enjoy the moment...

start by admitting from cradle to tomb isn’t that long a stay…

[giuseppina]

Pina, my over the top lines aside, would you say you've a significantly distinct way of playing in each of your alts or it's more similar than different?

uh depends on the alt but in general probably more similar than different outside of one’s meant not to be obviously me

[giuseppina]

Pina, my over the top lines aside, would you say you've a significantly distinct way of playing in each of your alts or it's more similar than different?

uh depends on the alt but in general probably more similar than different outside of one’s meant not to be obviously me

Hmm...

I see, that's kinda weird then after all. I remember you playing differently in a game with me as town!shiki but I don't remember that much about the game anyway, so.

i mean there could be an infinite number of factors here but the biggest one is probably the distance between today and that game but i dunno

i still feel like me to me,

so!

[giuseppina]

I want to massmurder all anime characters.

[giuseppina]

T

giuseppina

Aubrey, Klick, Norweg

Una, TGP, Toto

N: BBT, SirCakes, Gamma

Lucian

Shirou

S

hmhmhm

it is like,

mmm

why am i town instead of ‘i have no idea how to read her’

but also if you’re town maybe i am somehow both town and! ‘i have no idea how to read her’

which i kinda think is generally how you end up reading me as town but you know that as much as i do

[giuseppina]

Why do you think Shirou is scum? He seems so relaxed

do you think shirou would be noticeably

unrelaxed

as mafia?

which kinda makes me think more about aubrey’s read of me as ‘nervous town’

but eh

i don’t really understand the correlation here between relaxed and not a scums

just as my anxious energy or whatever you want to call it always present i think shirou probably capable of being relaxed as mafia

but maybe aubrey’s ‘nervous town’ read was too knowing? eh mayybe if i squint

[giuseppina]

just as my anxious energy or whatever you want to call it always present i think shirou probably capable of being relaxed as mafia

Shirou... relaxed as mafia?

or at least, appearing relaxed as mafia?

are we really meant to think that is outside of range i don’t understand

[giuseppina]

kinda confused about aristeia’s read of shirou because it is like

you are both (aristeia and shirou) very very capable of dedicated solving but that is not something either of you do all of the time

so i guess it’s weird to me that aristeia would expect that from shirou here but not from herself

[giuseppina]

i used to try to be like churros when replacing into games after that one neighbourhood game plotinus moderated so i know shirou is very capable of downhill solving and being very apparently town (but then i used my inability to do so effectively and the actual outcome of the neighbourhood game as an excuse for a noted difference in play when i replaced into a mafia slot in gacha mafia so i kinda abandoned that approach to some extent)

all of which is to say yeah shirou definitely capable of but i don’t really thing a lack of is particularly mafia indicative

i dunno

nevermind i think

[giuseppina]

other than post-MariaR where I did have no chill indeed

to assert greatness does not give us the key; it is only the lock

[giuseppina]

Interesting. I’ll let you elaborate at your leisure.

hm,

is it unreasonable to ask you to just like, type random thoughts about the game until you get bored and then hit submit?

yeah i guess that’s probably an unreasonable request

but if you want to…

[giuseppina]

okay

just feel like other than pina!town i didn’t know your thoughts on anything etc and you’ve been like, here, ya know

[giuseppina]

you can just ask me, I would be delighted to answer if I can.

i mean, you can certainly ramble if you’d like i’m not going to stop you

[giuseppina]

I think love is the light that guides the ocean home.

even language is of no use; cannot limn the soul

[giuseppina]

you can just ask me, I would be delighted to answer if I can.

i mean, you can certainly ramble if you’d like i’m not going to stop you

and it’s like

i would ask toto but i feel like toto would just say no and at least from toto’s posts i can very easily try to find what toto is finding to be scummy but there is so little information that then deciding whether or not that is coming from town becomes difficult - like saying okay this is what toto may be finding scummy, then weighing both whether i also find it to be scummy and whether or not that seems a reasonable thought for toto to have had at that time ends up feeling like

like i am trying to read the way i have filled in the blanks rather than toto’s actual posts

and it kinda feels like an unreasonable request for me to make of anyone like i said before

[giuseppina]

probably re: una’s identity if i had to venture a guess

[giuseppina]

I don’t really understand why Ari has me high in reads, but they basically townread me for bad reasons in lovers game and i even pointed it out so i don’t really see why they would try again if they rolled scum here.

hm

[giuseppina]

Idk if pina can walk through 198 as scum but maybe I underestimate her prowess triggers

ya know this game was the first time in recent memory where part of me really wanted to roll mafia/wanted the opportunity to try to impress you and such

but alas

[giuseppina]

The pina explanation is

fine

. I read her by seeing how much and how long I get a "???" feeling when reading her posts. Her posts have a unique style to them as either alignment, but there is a certain internal logic to them when she's town, which I find lacks when she's scum. I started the game thinking her posts were a bit of "???" but they have been getting better recently so.

it kinda feels like you may be doing ‘lucian reads giuseppina’ rather than reading me so far +/

[giuseppina]

Gamma hasn’t been on my best reads list very early game. I’m curious why she isn’t taking a heavy role day one though. Mind answering that Gamma?

potentially worried about the impetus for your line of questioning here,

but also, i am kinda wary of the like, i will solve day two, sort of thing from gamma emerald especially in a game like this where it’s a super grind for the scums (no mechanics, no flavour, etc)

but it’s not like that’d only apply to gamma emerald (could also apply to lucian [though lucian gave an alternate explanation for in first post] and shirou in a different sort of way and una and norwegianboyee and maybe others)

maybe aristeia is right and the expectation should be ~Solving.

[giuseppina]

hm

hm

was just noting that for myself to not forget to look into something

[giuseppina]

The pina explanation is

fine

. I read her by seeing how much and how long I get a "???" feeling when reading her posts. Her posts have a unique style to them as either alignment, but there is a certain internal logic to them when she's town, which I find lacks when she's scum. I started the game thinking her posts were a bit of "???" but they have been getting better recently so.

it kinda feels like you may be doing ‘lucian reads giuseppina’ rather than reading me so far +/

Yes, that is what I am doing. If I'd had a concrete read on you, I would've said so.

"But Lucian, you said you were not against a pina townread in--" I know what I said. Not being against the townread doesn't mean I was agreeing with it yet.

i do not think i communicated my feeling there very well

it just kinda feels like you know how you generally read me and are kinda replicating that rather than actively reading me here but i do not fully know how to take into account your being busy and saying you planned to be lazy this game and such so maybe this is unfair of me

[giuseppina]

Gamma hasn’t been on my best reads list very early game. I’m curious why she isn’t taking a heavy role day one though. Mind answering that Gamma?

potentially worried about the impetus for your line of questioning here,

but also, i am kinda wary of the like, i will solve day two, sort of thing from gamma emerald especially in a game like this where it’s a super grind for the scums (no mechanics, no flavour, etc)

but it’s not like that’d only apply to gamma emerald (could also apply to lucian [though lucian gave an alternate explanation for in first post] and shirou in a different sort of way and una and norwegianboyee and maybe others)

maybe aristeia is right and the expectation should be ~Solving.

Are you saying that you expect heavy solving from all these players?

no i am saying all of those players are capable of heavy solving and so it becomes very difficult to weigh

right like aubrey's expectation of gamma emerald seemed to be for gamma emerald to be taking an active heavy role day one, just as aristeia’s expectation of shirou also seemed to be for shirou to take an active heavy solving role day one,

and i can easily see scum benefit to players trying to put aside that expectation in one way or another,

but idk how applicable it is as town players do not always do so as i said to aristeia earlier

[giuseppina]

i don’t really know how to ask players to meet that expectation i guess mostly

[giuseppina]

uh i probably won’t vote until i wish for the person i am voting to be eliminated unless someone convinces me of some great benefit of my doing so

pedit: @aubrey

[giuseppina]

it just kinda feels like you know how you generally read me and are kinda replicating that rather than actively reading me here but i do not fully know how to take into account your being busy and saying you planned to be lazy this game and such so maybe this is unfair of me

No, I figured out what you were saying. And that was my response to it - the post you quoted wasn't meant to be read on you. Me saying that I'm not against a townread on you means that I do not actively disagree with a townread on you, and that I can see why someone else would townread you and that it's fine. I was trying to explain why I felt that I do not need to be actively wary of your slot currently.

oh sorry, okay, i think i understand now

[giuseppina]

no i am saying all of those players are capable of heavy solving and so it becomes very difficult to weigh

Is this talking about only the capability of heavy solving as town, or as heavy solving as either alignment?

well shirou and aristeia are definitely capable of a very downhill sort of solving that is very apparently town that i do not think they’d do as a scums, but are they and you and gamma emerald and una all capable of taking an active solving role as mafia, yeah probably but that doesn’t mean that shouldn’t be the expectation

a) that’s certainly more difficult for you to do as mafia than not doing so, yes?

and

b) it’s probably easier (for me at least) to tell the difference between players doing that as town vs as mafia rather than what everyone has been doing so far

like do i think gamma emerald would be more easily sorted were she taking an active role here? yes

[giuseppina]

…vote. Surely someone here has warranted your interest. Sitting idle focusing in yourself does nothing.

a lot of players have

but this:

We can just murder una and call it a day.

VOTE: una

sort of thing is one of the main reasons i hold my vote,

am not currently super confident in any of my scumreads and i really do not think calling it a day right now would be particularly beneficial to town

and i really do not believe anyone else needs me to vote in order to read me and from my perspective my vote just adds noise to any attempts i make at evaluating wagons and such

[giuseppina]

I was interested in what you mean by "becomes difficult to weight", I guess. Because I know you read meta a lot, and like a lot a lot. And all of my scumgames in the past ~6 months were me tryharding and taking an active role. Which I assumed you know (and if you didn't, you do know, and can verify) and I assume it makes some sort of difference when evaluating me based on effort vs. someone who has demonstrated already to be less likely to effort as scum?

i was aware of this yes

i mostly meant that i do not really know how to take into account your not doing so here

like it isn’t really mafia indicative but it certainly isn’t town indicative either and it could potentially account for your differences in approach to me but alignment could potentially also and you are also aware of your meta obviously so you’d also know that this couldn’t be considered as scum indicative for the reasons you’ve given

so altogether difficult and i just want to take it completely at face value and which means trying to figure out how much it contributes to your approach and yeah dunno how to do so

[giuseppina]

remember when you just casually walked into town with a dragon that you caught looking all sheepish and like it was no big deal

yes i know its unfair to think that would happen again because dragons dont fly around here anymore but still.

there should be

animal sounds micro normal blitzes

that’d be my ideal format

Pina how many games of mafia have you played? Cause that line of reasoning seems like it would come from a newer player.

uh, 50 something forum length games here

[giuseppina]

You and I both know Toto has no wagon forming and nobody is at risk right now. So vote. We can’t stay undecided forever and you can change. Otherwise it just reads as cautious idle mafia. Though Ari seems to be backing you by stating this as your standard. A bit not so great standard though me thinks.

i mean, if you really think my not voting outweighs everything else i have done this game and tips the scales towards me being mafia in your eyes you can certainly try to push me for that but, uh, i don’t really see how you would have reached that conclusion as town here

but yeah this pretty standard for me and i am pretty unlikely to remain undecided forever and am fairly likely to voice opposition/support and so forth

i guess i do not understand your desire for me to vote - do you believe i am super likely to vote for mafia right now and would like to sheep me, or?

[giuseppina]

Idk if pina can walk through 198 as scum but maybe I underestimate her prowess triggers

ya know this game was the first time in recent memory where part of me really wanted to roll mafia/wanted the opportunity to try to impress you and such

but alas

Not fortress?

nah i wanted to roll town in fortress

kinda hard for me to find an approach to that setup to apply as mafia among other concerns

and i didn’t yet have such a desire to impress you

[giuseppina]

Idk if pina can walk through 198 as scum but maybe I underestimate her prowess triggers

ya know this game was the first time in recent memory where part of me really wanted to roll mafia/wanted the opportunity to try to impress you and such

but alas

Not fortress?

nah i wanted to roll town in fortress

kinda hard for me to find an approach to that setup to apply as mafia among other concerns

and i didn’t yet have such a desire to impress you

This revelation makes me have to townread you less because people are generally way less likely to lie about pregame sentiments, so I could try to explain "pina is posting long logic trails it doesn't do as scum" with "pina is trying to impress me and tapping into level 2 strength reserves".

i will, in theory (as long as i have not entered a hopkirkian phase of inability to do so), roll scum again one day for you to catch me for this

or! you could use this to scumread me for free when you’re a scums +)

[giuseppina]

241 seemed to be implying that I'm more likely to be mafia for not efforting. 254 had a similar vibe with the a) point of the post. I don't think that's valid to say about someone who has consistently demonstrated to be able to effort as scum. And I know pina loves meta.

I think she was expressing suspicion of the people saying that not efforting -> scum though.

hmm I think maybe it makes sense that you would respond like that to her if you actually thought she was saying something she wasn't because then it's not as much of a non sequitor,

I could also just be wrong about the sentiment she was expressing because I am not great at reading as demonstrated earlier.

maybe not suspicion but at the very least i was expressing confusion with those reads as they seemed very applicable to many players and so it is like, why did aristeia have that expectation of shirou? why did aubrey think gamma emerald should have assumed an active role and not others? which kinda ties into my being a little worried about why aubrey was bringing up that point with regards to gamma emerald at that time and such

[giuseppina]

241 seemed to be implying that I'm more likely to be mafia for not efforting. 254 had a similar vibe with the a) point of the post. I don't think that's valid to say about someone who has consistently demonstrated to be able to effort as scum. And I know pina loves meta.

I think she was expressing suspicion of the people saying that not efforting -> scum though.

That is not the way I read it. "Scum benefits if people don't expect solving from them," which in my mind resembles "scum is likely to effort less".

pina is obviously welcome to clarify if I got it wrong, but yeah. You callout does make more sense now, at least.

it’s more of, ‘scum benefits if people do not expect solving from everyone’ and ‘i have no idea how to encourage everyone to solve’ and ‘i understand that towns do not always do so’

and i also understand that you are busy, and that una and aristeia and shirou may find it more fun not to, et cetera

[giuseppina]

i think my mental image of scum trying to climb the mountain versus town trying to climb the mountain is that town are kind of clueless and eager to sprint the entire way up while scum are smarter and understand it's going to be a very long climb.

yeah this mostly

like i said, this kinda game super grindy for the scums

pretty sure i have never thought someone was mafia simply for not efforting (even though i did lead a very very terrible not_mafia wagon day one somewhat recently-ish due to not believing in other wagons or myself and letting the disaster ball take over)

[giuseppina]

I've loosely been reading, but to quickly address this and move on.

i mean, if you really think my not voting outweighs everything else i have done this game and tips the scales towards me being mafia in your eyes you can certainly try to push me for that but, uh, i don’t really see how you would have reached that conclusion as town here

I just prefer votes to start getting thrown around and things to start happening. I feel like someone at 50 games under the belt shouldn't be waiting to cast a single vote with no wagons right now. At this point RVS votes and non-votes need to move around. I like you, but I'd hate for that to change.

if there was a wagon i believed in right now and wanted to push it through i would, but there isn’t

three players have barely any posts, i think discussion of the things i have found noteworthy with both the player making the noteworthy post and others is generally more helpful to both me and the game than ‘you are mafia for this so i am voting you’

i guess maybe it’s possible that you get a lot more out of how people move their votes around than i do (after moderating a bit i ended up quite obsessed with counting votes for a while as some of you may remember and i cannot say i did not get anything out of it really there were times it was very useful but it certainly did not make me think early wagons were great quite the opposite)

[giuseppina]

@pina what other town/scum games of mine do you know?

uh, if we’re assuming know to be read in their entirety,

dance game that just finished, diffusion of power, that dung beetle game, the datisi moderated game that shellyc and mena endgamed, the gypyx ‘normal’, the neighbourhood game

maybe others? i remember discussing alt-hunting with hectic after some game (i would guess a couple months after the neighbourhood game) that you were involved in but i dunno if it was one of the ones listed

[giuseppina]

the datisi moderated game that shellyc and mena endgamed

I was in a game like that...?

nope you spectated just checked my bad

[giuseppina]

the datisi moderated game that shellyc and mena endgamed

I was in a game like that...?

nope you spectated just checked my bad

Oh so my memory isn't

that

bad huh.

It's so weird how I forget important things that happened IRL but remember most of my mafia games. Maybe it's because they are relatively long? Doesn't seem like I'm the unique person like that given how you remembered so many games you weren't even in (except neighbor?).

i think we are similar in this way as i generally have a pretty okay memory for things i have read even though i get things jumbled a lot but i use sticky notes to remember basic things and i get lost walking routes i have done many times before

kinda curious why you asked the original question tho

[giuseppina]

kinda curious why you asked the original question tho

I thought it would probably be significantly +scum for you if you were assuming what I would do as scum without ever reading a scum game of mine

i clicked on a bunch of other random games during the dance game too but i didn’t read any of them in their entirety or anything

i probably have been guilty of assumptions like that at some point maybe even with regards to you as generally i kinda tend to put myself in the position of the person rather than the person because i do not actually know how anyone else thinks and such and this sometimes causes great difficulty but i am town nonetheless

[giuseppina]

You and I both know Toto has no wagon forming and nobody is at risk right now. So vote. We can’t stay undecided forever and you can change. Otherwise it just reads as cautious idle mafia. Though Ari seems to be backing you by stating this as your standard. A bit not so great standard though me thinks.

Votes are not nearly as important as people like to believe they are

Neither is all this meta kawaii junk, but alas.

okay so you think shirou may be doing so as mafia, yes? the goal for scum!shirou i assume would be to make the game harder to read and to alienate some players?

and the rest of those involved in either the meta discussions or the ‘kawaii’ as you say are enabling shirou to do so? or do you think it is more likely a concentrated mafia effort? or?

[giuseppina]

You and I both know Toto has no wagon forming and nobody is at risk right now. So vote. We can’t stay undecided forever and you can change. Otherwise it just reads as cautious idle mafia. Though Ari seems to be backing you by stating this as your standard. A bit not so great standard though me thinks.

Votes are not nearly as important as people like to believe they are

Neither is all this meta kawaii junk, but alas.

okay so you think shirou may be doing so as mafia, yes? the goal for scum!shirou i assume would be to make the game harder to read and to alienate some players?

and the rest of those involved in either the meta discussions or the ‘kawaii’ as you say are enabling shirou to do so? or do you think it is more likely a concentrated mafia effort? or?

My response is the same that I answered earlier regarding Shirou. If I was on my computer I’d link it.

Meta has little to no grounds or basis in my eyes. The only meta comment Ive taken stock in was when whoever said you typically stall on votes. Other than that, it’s been in one ear and out the other across the board.

As for kawaii, I’m just ready to off all anime girls at this point.

sorry i do not think i asked this well

your earlier posts re:shirou is why i ask in the first place,

i am trying to ask if from the interactions shirou is having, both about meta and ‘kawaii’ etc, does it seem more likely to be towns enabling shirou to muddy the game to you? or a more concentrated effort of shirou+ others to do so, or?

maybe i am still not asking well

[giuseppina]

She's done nothing to make me townread her

And everyone else

has

done something to make you townread them? Because this doesn't make sense to me otherwise, but I also feel like this is not it.

why couldn’t it simply be that klick has more of an expectation for aristeia to do something towny than others? i kinda think i do

[giuseppina]

Why was this specifically not true for your giuseppina read at post 79, but it was specifically true at post 109? As implied by this post:

It was not "specifically true" or whatever. I started off the game thinking pina is weird and stilted, in a way I find scummy from her, especially post 24. I saw your readslist, I thought it was overall odd. I kept reading, I thought pina's posts weren't *that* bad and that I could understand if someone was townreading her. I don't know which posts specifically did it, it probably wasn't any specific post; I could go back and pick some posts but this feels like a waste of time and I am highly skeptical this is something that is like, actually thought to be AI by anyone.

Do you have higher expectations of Ari? (Also @pina, I did not assume so because I don't recall Klick and Ari playing together.) Or has everyone else done something that you would consider something that scum wouldn't do?

Why am I scum?

interesting that you also use stilted to describe 24 just as thegoldenparadox did

but also,

i don’t generally post most of the possibilities i am considering on a post by post level especially not before trying to weigh their likelihoods (well anymore i used to more often) like i did there because they make a mess of the game

i did so in that case because aubrey seemed to be being scumread for reasons i could potentially understand as other than them being separate posts there was nothing that seemed towny to me and they reacted to the votes by asking if it was about their avatar - as if they thought it was only rvs related or something, maybe to defuse instead of trying to engage those doing so

[giuseppina]

wait why did

aristeia vote una tho

and did aristeia actually tell aubrey not voting is common for me somewhere in the thread?

[giuseppina]

because Aubrey said as much somewhere but, uh, i don’t see where

[giuseppina]

You and I both know Toto has no wagon forming and nobody is at risk right now. So vote. We can’t stay undecided forever and you can change. Otherwise it just reads as cautious idle mafia. Though Ari seems to be backing you by stating this as your standard. A bit not so great standard though me thinks.

but where did aristeia state this…?

[giuseppina]

hm

i guess i did not read that as saying that not voting is my standard

it’s actually hard for me to see how that even implies that

i guess maybe if i assume the ‘you’ in ‘as much as you don’t enjoy the climb’ to be me rather than a blanket you to go with the ‘people’ in the preceding statement

then maybe it’s saying

‘i know you personally do not enjoy voting but we have to start somewhere’

from which maybe one could extract aristeia saying it is my standard not to vote?

maybe?

idk can someone else look at for me please

[giuseppina]

i mean, it does matter if you would have gotten that information elsewhere,

but i guess from town!you’s perspective it probably doesn’t matter,

[giuseppina]

if i were to vote aristeia, and then maybe unvote depending after aristeia responds to my question re: una vote

what would you or anyone else gain from that?

like i am curious about the vote there and una’s response felt good but then they both kinda just continued playing the game which was also kinda ? to me

pedit: @aristeia maybe, definitely a non-zero from my perspective, why did you vote una there?

[giuseppina]

if this were a theme game i would be super paranoid that something bad would happen if i placed a vote

[giuseppina]

UNVOTE:

[giuseppina]

could una, shirou, gamma emerald, norwegianboyee and/or whoever else

look at 401-403 for me pretty please

just to say yeah i could see one reaching that conclusion from that aristeia post or nah or whatever because like

so hard for me to let things go

[giuseppina]

could una, shirou, gamma emerald, norwegianboyee and/or whoever else

look at 401-403 for me pretty please

just to say yeah i could see one reaching that conclusion from that aristeia post or nah or whatever because like

so hard for me to let things go

You read the Dance Game right?

I believe Cakez later on implied he didn't truly mean "mafia" as scum/alignment in his post after Midway proposed to Enchant (and therefore he was one post away from being eliminated as scum). I created an entire case out of it though and every evidence that popped up searching his history seemed to point towards it being a slip rather than coincidence. He even

was

in fact scum...but my "slip theory/case" was still incorrectly apparently.

It

can

be a slip as you're suspecting but I wouldn't put too much heart into it, I can see how he

kinda

can take away "not voting is your standard" from Ari saying "even if you don't like it" to you in regards to voting, it has some weirdness to it yes, it could be a slip, but out of 10 times of this kind of scenario, 8 or 9 are just a coincidence like with Cakez in my opinion (which I personally feel it felt

even

more of a slip given the context and timing of the post, still a bit surprised on how it wasn't, in fact, a scumclaim).

i did indeed (anahit is one of the accounts i mostly use for spectating as i did there)

i have done this multiple times as well and have managed to ‘catch’ town as well as mafia so mostly these days i try not to get too caught up by it and try to ask others even if it does occupy too much of my thoughts (which is also why i try to ask multiple people so i know i can more trust the responses though if petapan were playing rather than moderating i would probably default to asking petapan)

and if we extend this to coincidences in general then this list becomes extremely long because while very very good at finding coincidences i would not say i am particularly good at determining the relevance of said coincidences

[giuseppina]

Hmmhhhmmmmm

this ^^^^

[giuseppina]

Hmmhhhmmmmm

i like filling in the blanks for this one because it is like…

something is afoot!

and my brain was also like

something is afoot!

when trying to understand push on una from all directions as well as una interaction with gamma emerald in general

[giuseppina]

Btw i'm not actually thinking about anything when i say that. I just want people to think i'm being all cool and myserious and solving the game without anyone knowing.

i do not think toto’s post was saying

‘i am cool and mysterious and solving the game without anyone knowing’

do you not think it was saying

‘something is afoot!’

or if you want to be cynical maybe,

‘i am positioning myself as if this recent series of posts stood out to me’

but i really don’t think any interpretation of toto’s post could be

‘look at me secretly solving’

[giuseppina]

This is really random I know but...I just had an idea about a Russian Roulette setup randomly and wanted feedback:

Basically a normal 13p (3:10) mountainous setup (or maybe White Flag and town only needs to kill 2 scum) except there's, well, a "Russian Roulette" mechanic:

It takes "[X + 1]" (maybe "X + 2"? haven't thought too much about balance yet) to "fire the gun". X is the number of scum alive in the game. The same person cannot be shot twice

consecutively

, so at least they need to take turns.

A person can also

voluntarily

offer themselves to be "fired at", at anytime, and it ends the gun votes until the gun is fired by the moderator.

There's two versions in my mind, one where mafia knows on which "chamber" the bullet is and are therefore "informed" (which theoretically should make it easier to hunt them?) and one where they are as clueless as town about when the gun will actually kill.

Does that sound mildly interesting for a "simple setup" that perhaps I could request for an exception to run from S_S in the Open Queue (I don't have moderation experience yet) or is it just me?

there was a slaughter hour minigame based on russian roulette

[giuseppina]

But it does annoy me when people say "Hmm" i will admit. Like just be open about ur thoughts or say nothing. Jeez who wants to hear "Hmmm" in a game. Ridiculous.

oh it can mean any number of things when i do

like when i quoted your post earlier with hm i was on my phone and didn’t want to forget to look into it later

i used to just blank quote without any comment at all in that situation i don’t really know if that was better

[giuseppina]

@Pina
Well you could have just quoted with "Quoted for later" or something similar in that instance, but it's not that big of a deal i guess.

if i say ‘quoted for later’ then someone brings it up later and says ‘what did this mean!? you never brought that up again! you must have just wanted to look like you were doing something!!!’ and then i have to be like, uh, well, i wanted to look into how often norwegianboyee and towns in general make reads like that because the only two times i can remember posting particularly similar thoughts i was mafia (in trust fall as a read of prism regarding a game prism had just completed and in pooky’s dead silence mafia majority game as a read of menalque) but then it became an overwhelming task

[giuseppina]

i do not think posting a link in the game thread with the intention of discussing a setup in another thread is a good idea

but is shirou playing into aubrey's complaints about useless discussion? probably

[giuseppina]

anyway pretty easy to say most of my posts/my presence in general fairly useless,

so!

sorry i guess

i did post a very very good rendition of cabaret though so i am not dissatisfied with my contribution so far

[giuseppina]

how is shirou

currently reading norwegianboyee?

[giuseppina]

how is shirou

currently reading norwegianboyee?

Hiya

?

[giuseppina]

how is shirou

currently reading norwegianboyee?

Hiya

?

Thought my little reference would catch your eye, surprised it didn’t.

no it did as that’s one of my favourite quotes and i long for another morning tweet game and i reference it sometimes when in games with pooky! the! magical! bear!

but…

[giuseppina]

but what
I’m aware of the irony in posting that ftr

but i am trying to make less useless posts and shirou is not pooky, mostly

[giuseppina]

SirCakes, bbt and tgp are having a nice chat in the pt

Why did you post this?

i guess i do not see how this is meant to help us sort toto

i think the answer is because they aren’t posting

like regardless of toto’s alignment i do not really see how there is another answer to that question

[giuseppina]

why did u answer that for toto?

because i do not understand how there is any other answer to that question and am more curious as to why it was asked than the answer to it

do you see another possible answer to that question … ?

[giuseppina]

i also have no idea why you would expect me to wait for toto to respond to a question that doesn’t make sense before saying, this doesn’t make any sense

[giuseppina]

SirCakes, bbt and tgp are having a nice chat in the pt

Why did you post this?

i guess i do not see how this is meant to help us sort toto

i think the answer is because they aren’t posting

like regardless of toto’s alignment i do not really see how there is another answer to that question

I just find it odd he chose to be the one to break the glass on that subject when he’s next in line

eh there is evidence toto at least is reading the game

like toto pushes una wagon, then hHmmmMmmms while others are pushing una and such

sure it’s annoying to put in the effort like i said earlier and it often feels like you end up reading the way you’ve filled in the blanks, but there’s a difference between that and no content

like i guess i don’t understand why your question to toto would be this rather than something regarding thoughts on una wagon, a wagon you are also part of and seem happy with,

[giuseppina]

i also have no idea why you would expect me to wait for toto to respond to a question that doesn’t make sense before saying, this doesn’t make any sense

I didn’t mind elaborating why I found it odd of Toto to do that but I would have preferred him to at least engage it in some manner first before you stepped in

the benefit of engaging maybe helping me sort you seems better to me than waiting however long for toto to say

because they weren’t posting

like if i can better determine if you’re actually trying to sort toto vs trying to say toto is potentially scummy or whatever for a throwaway comment about the lurkers being the scumteam

yeah i’d take it every time

[giuseppina]

how is shirou

currently reading norwegianboyee?

Here's your answer:

VOTE: Norwegianboy

By the way. I've never once misread Norwe as scum when he's town.

(

I've, a long time ago, not limmed scum!him though because I got lost along the game

)

This is definitely one of if not his best perfomance as scum so far in my opinion, but it

does align

with the fact he told me weeks ago about how he wanted to improve/effort in his scum game.

I've to sleep/later work now but I'll be around in the weekend to talk about it

kinda have had same feeling at times thus why i asked and such

[giuseppina]

i also have no idea why you would expect me to wait for toto to respond to a question that doesn’t make sense before saying, this doesn’t make any sense

I didn’t mind elaborating why I found it odd of Toto to do that but I would have preferred him to at least engage it in some manner first before you stepped in

the benefit of engaging maybe helping me sort you seems better to me than waiting however long for toto to say

because they weren’t posting

like if i can better determine if you’re actually trying to sort toto vs trying to say toto is potentially scummy or whatever for a throwaway comment about the lurkers being the scumteam

yeah i’d take it every time

like you are on a wagon with toto right now

and toto's content has certainly been more focused on that than the lurkers

[giuseppina]

how is shirou

currently reading norwegianboyee?

Here's your answer:

VOTE: Norwegianboy

By the way. I've never once misread Norwe as scum when he's town.

(

I've, a long time ago, not limmed scum!him though because I got lost along the game

)

This is definitely one of if not his best perfomance as scum so far in my opinion, but it

does align

with the fact he told me weeks ago about how he wanted to improve/effort in his scum game.

I've to sleep/later work now but I'll be around in the weekend to talk about it

kinda have had same feeling at times thus why i asked and such

and

WHY

aren't

you

VOTING

him

with me Pina.

I really hope that changes by the time I wake up.

i am not even sure i would say very most likely to me right now just felt like

like some things have felt potentially scum indicative to me and it felt weird to me that there was so much focus on norwegianboyee reading you and such but that there wasn’t much in other direction

so i wanted to know how you felt

i guess i would be much more interested in the ‘whys’ and the ‘this is what led heres’ than the theatrics, but

[giuseppina]

like i said we could start with the whys and the this is what led me heres instead of the theatrics

i would very

very very very

very very very very very

much like for nothing to get nasty and i see no possible need for it to

[giuseppina]

happy birthday gamma emerald

[giuseppina]

Tgp made some good posts?
You are ok with norwee vote but very wary of ari…

Tell me more!

good

also @sircakez was norwegianboyee the secret scumread, or?

[giuseppina]

@thegoldenparadox thoughts on lucian/aubrey?

[giuseppina]

Tgp is probably town for that.

eh scumreading someone who is active and generally being townread by the game is a pretty good way to occupy your time as a scums

is it something more than ‘i don’t think a scums would push shirou here’?

[giuseppina]

(also if i squint the responses to first two quotes thegoldenparadox commented on feel like

hmm

very similar? to posts i had just made

but may be a coincidence of course as discussed earlier

but like, the toto is towny and then the look shirou is scummy for having a secret read when i have just said a toto post was good asked about sircakez’s secret read,

maybe i am meant to say, ah maybe it is scummy and sircakez’s having a secret read is scummy! or maybe i am meant to think, ah similar thoughts! thegoldenparadox is probably town! or maybe simply a coincidence

but there have been A Lot of posts since thegoldenparadox last posted and those are the ones he chose to comment on)

[giuseppina]

UNVOTE: no hammer yet

was norwegianboyee the secret scumread? if not, who/what/why/when/how?

[giuseppina]

and yeah ‘this is my scumread everyone sheep it i may or may not post my reasoning at some point’ is obviously pretty unreasonable

i do not think i would be given any leeway if i were to attempt to take this approach (not that i would be likely to anyway)

[giuseppina]

UNVOTE: no hammer yet

was norwegianboyee the secret scumread? if not, who/what/why/when/how?

No it's not secret if I'm voting them lol
I'm still holding that one for now cuz they are not dying today

the day is long yet

[giuseppina]

like 8 days on deadline still i do not understand why you do not think a scumread of yours could be effectively pursued before then

[giuseppina]

and yeah ‘this is my scumread everyone sheep it i may or may not post my reasoning at some point’ is obviously pretty unreasonable

My personal instinct when I have that strong of a scumread is to explain in detail why they are scum in order to convince everyone of it. I don't

think

Shirou was doing that in NYDP so I'm not considering it AI and I'm too lazy to check, but yeah.

nah it was mostly ‘i was right about the last two therefore i am right about mariar as well’

thus the quote about asserting greatness being the lock as opposed to the key i posted earlier

[giuseppina]

how likely does anyone think it is that mafias would bus day one of this setup?

[giuseppina]

pina, what are your thoughts on the Norwee/Shirou situation, alignments-wise?

dunno

norwegianboyee’s approach to una wagon felt not quite right to me and norwegianboyee has often felt like, adjacent to the game to me, if that makes sense, and then there are little things like the one read i hmed but it’s not really searchable and even looking through every one of norwegianboyee’s games wouldn’t be a particularly relevant sample size and looking through every single game ever played isn’t a task i am up for right now so

maybe the response to aristeia vote was okay? yeah maybe? but progressions are pretty easy to track as mafia and once again something i am likely to do myself as a scums

shirou’s push mostly not alignment indicative to me and i half expect shirou to say ‘no reasons i was testing everyone!!’ or some such thing but hopefully i am wrong about that

like i can piece together mafia reasoning for it (and there are a lot of possible factors - someone earlier {aubrey I think} said shirou would have no reason to do this as a scums and it is like, what if shirou is una’s partner? what if shirou was feeling bored? etc) but i don’t know if that seems more likely to me than the town reasoning and like i said it’s not like norwegianboyee has felt towny

[giuseppina]

Ok you should try it tho it's a successful way to play scum I was gonna win my minigame rly

mmm

i guess i forfeited my right to have any opinion about this

[giuseppina]

Am

am i the town in the

‘just claim town and then we won’t eliminate you’

example?

[giuseppina]

my methodologies have changed i don't overthink shit like that anymore

Valid tho

Have you considered that we will all also be annoying about it if you do not reveal who your scumread is?

if it is me and i were sircakez i would probably assume i would be pretty annoying about it

[giuseppina]

how likely does anyone think it is that mafias would bus day one of this setup?

i think it depends on the situation.

which one would you like to talk about?

(i was more thinking about mafias trying to protect eachother day one when i said that and potential examples i saw of that because bussing seems somewhat unlikely to me outside of the possibility that shirou is bussing norwegianboyee but confidence would have to be high for the team as a whole that flipping norwegianboyee would be a free win for that to be the case)

[giuseppina]

mmm i think in that scenario it would be like a shirou-una-nor team and he would have to hope it wins but i dont think people let him live at elo so it feels suboptimal to do it

oh hm

i do not think it would be una as the third because una would have to survive four more eliminations and she was the leading wagon at the time shirou started the norwegianboyee push

also let’s sacrifice a teammate for free doesn’t seem like the sort of plan una would be super inclined to sign off on but maybe i am incorrect about that

[giuseppina]

mmm i think in that scenario it would be like a shirou-una-nor team and he would have to hope it wins but i dont think people let him live at elo so it feels suboptimal to do it

oh hm

i do not think it would be una as the third because una would have to survive four more eliminations and she was the leading wagon at the time shirou started the norwegianboyee push

also let’s sacrifice a teammate for free doesn’t seem like the sort of plan una would be super inclined to sign off on but maybe i am incorrect about that

you are comparing to overall odds. i think the correct comparison is to what happens if you do nothing

? wouldn’t shirou pushes a random non-partner be the play if una is the third? rather than ‘do nothing’ or pushing norwegianboyee?

i think the third would have to be someone who a) thought it would be funny and b) also thought they had at least a pretty decent chance of surviving

but also, probably should not be considering this possibility due to it being somewhat unlikely

[giuseppina]

thinking about it more they do seem like such good friends maybe they would just not do a bus because it doesnt seem fun.

yeah seems kinda unlikely and suboptimal yeah

though i do wonder if friendship between mafias makes bussing more or less likely

[giuseppina]

WAIT LMAO I LOOKED AT THE VC
VOTE: aristeia
My secret scumread is popular let's fucking go

now that we’ve done the who

can we do the when/why tho

[giuseppina]

I think Lucian might be scum

Citation needed.

have you

posted any thoughts re:lucian or interacted with lucian in anyway before this point?

[giuseppina]

i half expect shirou to say ‘no reasons i was testing everyone!!’ or some such thing

yup

[giuseppina]

@aristeia now is this more likely to come from partners tho

[giuseppina]

Why is Cake town I want to feel it

mm i thought same question before writing a response to ‘ruining fun’ before deciding my response was likely more ‘ruining fun’ so i deleted and forgot to ask

[giuseppina]

hm,

a somewhat interesting interpretation of norwegianboyee’s path from

‘i am going to fight this with my whole heart that’s why i am posting about una right now’

to

‘flip aristeia after you flip me!!’

but okay

[giuseppina]

how likely does anyone think it is that mafias would bus day one of this setup?

i think it depends on the situation.

which one would you like to talk about?

(i was more thinking about mafias trying to protect eachother day one when i said that and potential examples i saw of that because bussing seems somewhat unlikely to me outside of the possibility that shirou is bussing norwegianboyee but confidence would have to be high for the team as a whole that flipping norwegianboyee would be a free win for that to be the case)

My issue conceptually with a D1 scum bus would be that it can’t be a glory bus because of the setup, the other living partner also has to be positioned well.

yeah which is why more likely mafias would be protecting eachother and such which is kinda what i was thinking about there but a lot of potential examples

[giuseppina]

Oh right, I also got into "hmmmmm" mode about TGP's post. It feels so bold for scum but also there's a lot of scum motivation to take that stance. I don't remember TGP being this resistant to sheeping me on Norwe in the beetle game, may want to revisit that.

hmmmmm

[giuseppina]

Oh right, I also got into "hmmmmm" mode about TGP's post. It feels so bold for scum but also there's a lot of scum motivation to take that stance. I don't remember TGP being this resistant to sheeping me on Norwe in the beetle game, may want to revisit that.

hmmmmm

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

i mean i also agree obviously as i have previously stated more or less the same thing

which i don’t think norwegianboyee ever responded to me asking why it made thegoldenparadox town though unless i missed it

[giuseppina]

[giuseppina]

I also feel if either Ari or Una are scum, both would bus a bit.

If neither of Ari/Una are scum, they are still the best scum hunters in this playerlist most likely so why not

imo pina is the best scum hunter in this pl and it is not particularly close.

nah

ya know when hoopla tells someone that she (hoopla) does not need that someone to solve the game, she simply needs them to make their alignment known (and the built-in assumption to that statement is that she herself will solve the game)? i am pretty okay quite good really at being someone and not so good at being hoopla (despite my best efforts) so the hope is generally that someone else will assume the mantle at least for the game

[giuseppina]

please no end day or anything

please

won’t really be around until later haven’t read up just saw e-2

[giuseppina]

[giuseppina]

okayokayokay let's see

[giuseppina]

Pina is largely active and kinda towny by seeming anxious. However she just seems to be asking opinions of play vs casting their own opinions. Something worth revisiting, but I don’t think it’s a worthy consideration right now.

i,

don't think 'seeming anxious' is how i've displayed my towniness here

i am ~always anxious

like maybe that presents itself in different ways in different situations? but uh, yeah

anyway if there's an opinion that i haven't given on something you think i should have an opinion on, you could, idk, ask? like do you think i would be unlikely to answer? i don't really understand

also don't really understand why it would be something you would revisit rather than try to get to the bottom of right now

my role is static and i do not really think i am unsortable or anything and saying 'maybe i'll get to that later' or whatever seems kinda ???

unless your assumption is that if town i would be nightkilled and you might not have to ever sort me? which is kinda ... but possible i guess

[giuseppina]

Klick sell me on Shurro town. Also Pina.

hm, are you worried i am pocketing you, or?

like if i am going to put in effort to read between lines here or whatever you could do the same

feel like maybe i am getting distracted by things but it's like,

unless you're just trying to sort klick i would rather you just filled in the blanks mostly the point of the exercise for me was to see if you would say,

yes that is part of what i was saying and...

or no, that's not what i meant by that,

and so forth

[giuseppina]

mmm i think in that scenario it would be like a shirou-una-nor team and he would have to hope it wins but i dont think people let him live at elo so it feels suboptimal to do it

This post sells me on serious possibility of Ari!scum. The reasons why are hard to describe but it feels like attacking a strawman. It's like someone else is like "x seems potentially true" and then Aristeia is like "in x scenario a, b, c, and d all have to be true and e would also have to be true and e seems impossible". Nothing Ari has said gives me reason to townread them, and so
VOTE: Aristeia—I think I buy this at least for now.

eh

i don't really agree with aristeia's first conclusion but it does seem rather suboptimal to me as well

and like, i do not think aristeia was in anyway trying to 'win' the discussion or anything by 'attacking a strawman' or whatever,

like the only scum angle i can really see to it is like,

scum!aristeia knows town!aristeia would be likely to respond to that as aristeia generally entertains my thoughts and she understands my process to some extent and that 'no that doesn't really make sense' is just as helpful as 'yes this possibly makes sense continue pursuing that' and so she could have been trying to say 'only in this world would it make sense to me and even then it seems ???' simply because she thinks town!her would, but like, i also think town!her would be pretty likely to so i don't really see how that makes it scum indicative

it's possible aristeia trying to appear town to me because she believes if able to do so effectively i might just steer the wagon onto someone else, yes, maybe had an inkling of that feeling with regards to the 'pina the best scumhunter' thing but that's kinda unfair of me because she has voiced similar thoughts previously even though i disagree so to read it as agenda here seems unfair of me yeah, but do i think aristeia might think, i should be towny to giuseppina because she might just steer the wagon off of scum!me onto whoever, sure

[giuseppina]

@aristeia now is this more likely to come from partners tho

i can see it coming from partners but im not sure i want to give shirou that many creativity points as scum

yeah, i'm not sure i see this coming from town

the interesting part about this aristeia post, to me at least,

is that it is the sort of read/phrasing i would more expect to come from una (though una would be more likely to state it as a comparison of expected creativity points vs displayed creativity points and then if unsure i think she would be likely to express that as well, in some form, instead of it expressing it as a 'want' thing', and maybe it would include a metaphor as well)

but i dunno if that means anything

don't really think i should start playing around with language theories here even if they are more interesting to me

just thought this phrasing was potentially noteworthy from aristeia as it is something i have seen from others outside of this game as well, but i guess i haven't often felt like aristeia viewed the game as if we were each characters in a video game or rpg and such with associated stats, or maybe not viewed as much as compared the game to that situation mentally, in the way that those others do sometimes

but also could be something that has worn off on aristeia instead of situationally borrowed, so

and again, otherwise, as above, just feels like aristeia replying to me just the phrasing maybe noteworthy

[giuseppina]

is that it is the sort of read/phrasing i would more expect to come from una (though una would be more likely to state it as a comparison of expected creativity points vs displayed creativity points and then if unsure i think she would be likely to express that as well, in some form, instead of it expressing it as a 'want' thing', and maybe it would include a metaphor as well)

yeah i guess it would be an altogether different post if a hypothetical una wrote it, just similar in terms of how she sometimes expresses views of other players that i do not generally associate with aristeia

[giuseppina]

was worried aristeia was still at e-2 but checked votecount and it seems not,

[giuseppina]

I think it’s to the interest of scum to make Shirou’s reputation falter in this game because there are no nightkills

ehhhhhhhhhhhh

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

sigh coming off a game where i just pointed out a mafia "townslipping" in this way and then said mafia was like 'oh whatever do you mean whyever would i state something like that i knew to be false as mafia' and then another mafia was like, 'what did you mean by this why would a townslip be mafia indicative' sort of thing

it is like,

i want to put no value into this but if anything i think it's somewhat likely to come from mafia yeah,

[giuseppina]

Ok TGP may be scum

Pina as the the official meta player I want your take on this, and also how much do you know about TGP in general?

UNVOTE:

i assume this view of me comes partly from lucian and partly from my having read games i was not playing in, but i think it is more of who i was, or maybe not even that, but rather who i could have been at one point had i continued pursuing, but anyway,

most of how i feel about thegoldenparadox does not come from meta at all

what he has chosen to comment on has been kinda ..! to me

and coming back with a new vote with new reasoning and such here without any like

debrief or anything from the previous post or any of the reactions to it and such

feels not right, like trying to create his posts from scratch doesn't end up feeling like it's a particularly towny process,

i have some firsthand experience with thegoldenparadox - in silent star royalty and a datisi moderated micro normal

he was town in each, i do not really think thegoldenparadox's posts ever felt as constructed as they do here to me,

looking at it now, even though he had similar issues regarding the amount of posts and such in royalty as he does here, his posts given after gaps of time still feel more written instead of built,

but i was part of the wagon that miseliminated him in royalty, which was largely a deadline thing but still

so maybe knowing he was town there and not knowing his alignment here is potentially influencing me

and his playstyle in the micro normal was altogether different so hard to judge even is his reads like, mm,

like in both of those games his reads feel kinda like they are being thrown out there and significantly less like they are being presented to me

[giuseppina]

I think it’s to the interest of scum to make Shirou’s reputation falter in this game because there are no nightkills

ehhhhhhhhhhhh

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

sigh coming off a game where i just pointed out a mafia "townslipping" in this way and then said mafia was like 'oh whatever do you mean whyever would i state something like that i knew to be false as mafia' and then another mafia was like, 'what did you mean by this why would a townslip be mafia indicative' sort of thing

it is like,

i want to put no value into this but if anything i think it's somewhat likely to come from mafia yeah,

If it helps you reading me, i think most of the players that know me can confirm that i tend to goof this kind of thing often. I even slipped as mafia once by claiming my role is VT when the game didn't even have VT roles.

but then you are also aware that you goof this kind of thing and then it just becomes even more of a wifom thing

like i have misunderstood setups and voting rules and things of the sort myself multiple times and based various thoughts upon those misunderstandings and made many a mess so i certainly understand that this is something that does happen for towns, and i am certainly not hard scumreading you for it or anything,

it's just that i also know mafias like to fake this sort of thing for some reason so i do not think really think i should be weighting it as a towny thing

like that's why i say i want to put no value into it, rather than trying to determine concretely whether it comes from mafia or town in this particular case, as it seems unlikely i would be able to do so

[giuseppina]

Shirou vs. TGP is reading more old school vs. new school to me. I low key like TGP, though I admit I’m super biased.

Personally this has been a hard game for me to dig my heels into and feel like I can perform well. I was excited to join, but I’m slowly remembering why I began to dip away. like I was trained by the “older gen” on a different site I guess, and play though more of a analytical lens and mafia theory lens over Meta this Meta that, that one game we played this, omg why are you reading me like that when I was blah in blah. Like that line of reasoning isn’t something I consider or able to participate in. And the new style of not trying to play to you’re alignment but play hard to read is just a site meta I never got and still feel like I’m seeing….all in all I feel like that maybe a similar feeling TGP and possibly BBT was feeling. Not to put thoughts and emotion in your mouths.

For the record I’m leaving BBT as null, he might have just decided he didn’t care to read.

i think, if you do want to go heavily into analytics and mafia theory here, that there are quite a few players that would also happily have those conversations with you, myself included

like i don't really think it's exclusively one or the other, and i do love playing connect the dots,

[giuseppina]

aubrey badgering pina to vote is giving me feels

this still i keep thinking about and... there's the aristeia thing and the like 'oh it sure would be scummy if you didn't vote' sort of thing which like, ??? like not voting isn't actually a mafia indicative thing in anyway just like the 'not casting its own opinions' thing isn't mafia indicative that's not really how things work and the way aubrey seems to be taking those things into heavy consideration when compared to the rest of my posts, my approach to the game and such, why i would be doing what i am doing if i were mafia, or anything like that, it feels like

like it feels like aubrey is trying to say, 'look at these negatives! look everyone, giuseppina doesn't state its thoughts as hard conclusions! giuseppina doesn't vote' while townreading me and saying, but we will look at those things later, as if those things somehow carry a significant amount of weight that i don't really see why town would think those were so important towards determining alignment,

but i am me so obvious bias involved in my trying to evaluate

[giuseppina]

Klick or Aubrey could easily be mafia as well, I think

quote the una post that says this game has six mafia

but also, yeah i often end up living in worlds where everyone or nearly everyone is possible mafia

[giuseppina]

i probably need to get better at focusing on Very Most Likely but figuring out how to do so probably isn't a today endeavour

[giuseppina]

Klick sell me on Shurro town. Also Pina.

hm, are you worried i am pocketing you, or?

like if i am going to put in effort to read between lines here or whatever you could do the same

feel like maybe i am getting distracted by things but it's like,

unless you're just trying to sort klick i would rather you just filled in the blanks mostly the point of the exercise for me was to see if you would say,

yes that is part of what i was saying and...

or no, that's not what i meant by that,

and so forth

I am worried a little bit, yes.

Sorry I'm not sure I follow what you are asking me to do. Are you saying I should be more open about what I'm thinking when I post stuff?

it's like, you're asking klick about me right, which kinda implies you're a bit worried and such (or trying to appear to be so / see if others are or whatever),

but it hasn't felt like, like when given the opportunity to interact with me directly to better feel this out, to solidify your worries or make them go away or whatever, it hasn't felt like you've taken that opportunity

and i don't really know how to ask you to be more open about things, i tried doing the filling in the blanks for what i thought you may be thinking at various times as a means of trying to get you to engage with it, so i could see more of what you were thinking / how you were viewing the game / if it felt like you were trying to determine alignments but you did not really respond to my doing so at all,

so it's like, maybe toto is worried i was attempting to pocket or something? and that's why toto didn't engage but then is asking klick why giuseppina town

but like, that seems like an odd interpretation of my attempts at interacting with you

so if you were trying to sort klick more by about view of me, it's like, sure maybe i guess? but don't you have better means of trying to sort me at your disposal if it's about me?

[giuseppina]

right like i'm not asking you to say

'giuseppina this is what i am worried about should i not be worried about this?' as that would be pretty silly

but giuseppina, what did you mean by this? or what were you thinking when you said this? or what was the impetus for this post? or if this is true, then what do you think about this?

or literally any means of sorting me while also making yourself more sortable would be nice i guess

but like i said, kinda feels like i may be getting distracted by things

[giuseppina]

it's like, you're asking klick about me right, which kinda implies you're a bit worried and such (or trying to appear to be so / see if others are or whatever),

I asked klick because she was town reading you and I wasn't fully convinced, I did honestly hope to get convinced because having some stronger town reads this game would be good.

but yeah I already said why I'm a bit worried about you in the "reads of everyone" post. I don't think you have done anything particularly scummy other than not taking a stronger stance. There is some element of you trying to guess why I'm reading someone as scumwhich is a bit odd and did make me feel like you are trying to pocket me. I understand the town explanation for that is you are trying to sort me too.

Whats your read on me currently btw?

re: 'reads of everyone post' - hadn't gotten there yet but, uh, expecting me to be concise is kinda ...

like i get that i am not always clear and if you feel that you are not following something or you do not know how i feel about something or anything, please just ask

yeah maybe it would be easier for everyone if i just stated things like,

i believe x to be mafia, and y to be town

but a) i do not think anyone would listen to me anyway and b) that's not how i think of things and c) do not think i would survive day 1 if i suddenly became a 'this is my readslist it is Correct everyone should sheep it' sort of player

i do not think my not taking a stronger stance thus far is mafia indicative of me (or most players really), i view the game in possibilities and it seems so strange to me when players state things concretely that to me, as town, cannot possibly be so concrete (thus my comment at the bottom of my post to aubrey re: your post on the bottom of page one)

there are a few factors - i find it kinda fun to try to determine what is being communicated by things like 'hmmmmmmm' and then i think it's pretty useful to try to determine the unstated, like why you're reading someone as scum, like oh it could be this or this and that would track, or this seems possibly because scum!toto thinks doing so would be advantageous and such, and also as a means of trying to engage you in a way that doesn't immediately let you know what i may be looking for,

like i think you could better determine whether or not i was attempting to pocket you simply by interacting with me more, not less,

i've thought you were town at times mostly because it felt like things followed, like i felt like you posting the things you were when you were made sense, but it was never like a super strong thing

i guess there are parallels with other players on things like 'let's kill animes' or view of shirou push on norwegianboyee that are kinda hmm but trying to do possible associatives quickly spirals into many many more possibilities

[giuseppina]

but a) i do not think anyone would listen to me anyway and b) that's not how i think of things and c) do not think i would survive day 1 if i suddenly became a 'this is my readslist it is Correct everyone should sheep it' sort of player

i do not think my not taking a stronger stance thus far is mafia indicative of me (or most players really), i view the game in possibilities and it seems so strange to me when players state things concretely that to me, as town, cannot possibly be so concrete (thus my comment at the bottom of my post to aubrey re: your post on the bottom of page one)

so yeah the scum!you case is you are trying to survive (see your #c) by letting town murder each other and staying on the sidelines.

i mean, i am trying to survive i think all towns should be trying not to be miseliminated and i have stated as much many times before

but mostly i am trying to find a scums day one and then hopefully get nightkilled if you really want to know what i am trying to do

[giuseppina]

Someone else echo'd a similar opinion of you not having skin in the game. So it wasn't just me there.

and how do you feel about toto echoing this?

[giuseppina]

lucian may be town

been staring at 912 forever now and like,

like how is that the post where you go, 'ah lucian might be town!',

like sure i also thought the early readslist from aristeia was good sign, tstbs doesn't apply to aristeia yup agreed,

but like, idk kinda feel like lucian could spin one wheel with each of the players listed and one wheel with random conclusions on it and then iso the player that came up and reach the conclusion that was landed on and it wouldn't look all that much different from this one? and that's basically what happened here? like lucian asked the thread for something to analyze and aristeia was chosen and tada these early posts good later posts not so much (and like, i've now also looked at norwegianboyee's reaction to shirou push yet again and don't really see how it's a particularly towny reaction one so obviously towny to lucian that it should also be apparently towny to aristeia if aristeia is town)

i'm not saying 'this post definitely comes from a mafia' or even, 'this post is more likely to come from a mafia' but i don't see how that post would be the tipping point to you of lucian being town

[giuseppina]

Toto doesn’t bother me to much right now.

hmm

guess i meant more about that specifically then toto in general but probably not a reasonable way to ask that without being like,

do you find toto's read of me being very very similar to yours possibly town indicative due to 'mindmelding' or whatever,

which sure possible you've both arrived at that conclusion though it is always weird to me when people present very similar reads without acknowledging the one that came first

or do you find it potentially suspicious that toto is presenting a nearly identical read of me (other than the potentially pocketing stuff or whatever which i brought up before toto did anyway)?

which is like a sure, it's also possible toto lifted dunno how likely, to me

and if i am going to ask that way it's like,

eh

[giuseppina]

I'm a sucker for long posts

cannot tell how cheeky this is meant to be

[giuseppina]

so, I kinda approve of Ari's wagon but I would be more interested on one of [Lucian/TGP/Una] rather than her at the moment.

I don't want to go back to voting Una yet but I wonder if she's my unique option for today other than Ari, I'm curious to see what @Pina has to say about my stuff on TGP.

I’d be down to vote TGP unless he has a miraculous about-face regarding the meta ignorance blunder

i, hm, i,

can you just walk me through your read of shirou

like a brief recap of beginning to present if possible

you townread norwegianboyee right, and then shirou started a wagon on norwegianboyee that you sheeped due to possible similarities with another player in another game who was mafia, then you unvoted because shirou about face end of wagon and so forth,

and here you are showing support for another wagon based on shirou's reasoning

so i am wondering how you were viewing shirou through all of this

[giuseppina]

which sure possible you've both arrived at that conclusion though it is always weird to me when people present very similar reads

without acknowledging the one that came first

I guess I’m townleaning Aubrey now. Early posting looked like trying to blend in but I like they are pushing the thread in the right direction.

I liked some of his reads. And been nodding to some of his posts.

fair enough sorry

[giuseppina]

so, I kinda approve of Ari's wagon but I would be more interested on one of [Lucian/TGP/Una] rather than her at the moment.

I don't want to go back to voting Una yet but I wonder if she's my unique option for today other than Ari, I'm curious to see what @Pina has to say about my stuff on TGP.

I’d be down to vote TGP unless he has a miraculous about-face regarding the meta ignorance blunder

i, hm, i,

can you just walk me through your read of shirou

like a brief recap of beginning to present if possible

you townread norwegianboyee right, and then shirou started a wagon on norwegianboyee that you sheeped due to possible similarities with another player in another game who was mafia, then you unvoted because shirou about face end of wagon and so forth,

and here you are showing support for another wagon based on shirou's reasoning

so i am wondering how you were viewing shirou through all of this

Pina if you're town why explain all the thought process on sorting her before she answers

Let's say Gamma said "I don't town read Shirou too much" here, surely it would be a bit scummy of her then to vote so similarly to me, but you basically gave away that you noticed the voting pattern being similar

before

she answered how she views me.

Now that you pointed all of this out pre-emptively, it's obvious how Gamma should answer this. I don't get your "scum hunting" thought process here, all your posts so far to me sounds like you're trying to carve depth out of flatness.

Feels like busywork, also removing you from my nulltown pile I guess.

that isn't my thought process for sorting her? that's the events i would like gamma emerald to focus on when walking me through her read of you?

gamma emerald hasn't really stated a read on you through this point and it feels like gamma emerald didn't consider your alignment at all throughout the norwegianboyee wagon and on reflection,

do you think the 'obvious' answer is for gamma emerald to say, 'ah i hard townread shirou through everything regardless no reason for me to consider or reconsider his alignment'?

now i am however walking into explaining my thought process to gamma emerald territory preemptively because prompted

i do not really know what you mean by the depth out of flatness thing however

i feel like the uselessness thing and now maybe the like playstyle reads have

~affected

me

or whatever

[giuseppina]

maybe i should only play from my phone when i am also otherwise occupied to avoid days like today where i have time and am mostly rambling i guess

but eh

[giuseppina]

I feel like you’ve gone so far into reflective thinking that you don’t really come to any conclusions at all.
Like the philosophers that spend an entire book just to conclude that nothing can be concluded.

i mean, philosophy is one of my main areas of study

or i guess maybe, was? since i am on hiatus and do not currently have plans to return to my program

but i feel like i will reach some conclusions at least in terms of,

this is the very most likely to me right now, i am currently trying to weigh those things, shrugs

[giuseppina]

Even if that's the case I feel like there was no need to basically recap everything rather than simply asking for her to recap how she was seeing my alignment from start to the end of this day.

It may be simply a difference in playstyle though, I would rather keep the cards I've close to the chest before people reveals theirs, rather than the other way around which is much easier to understand how to counterplay/give the "right" answer.

i, both in mafia games and in life, often have lots of difficulties in communication so i take efforts to facilitate when i remember to do so,

like i literally just asked aubrey a question, and then aubrey answered a different question that was not the one that i was trying to ask,

i do not think my recapping the timeline of events i would like gamma emerald to focus on somehow makes the question unuseful

i just think it makes it more likely that gamma emerald answers the question i am trying to ask

shrugs, but it's not like i put a massive amount of thought into it beforehand,

Like Pina, do you have anything you've concluded that is significantly more likely one way rather than the other in this game? If yes, tell us please (again, not final conclusions, you said mafia is a game of chances and I think that's correct, but what is the most likely "answers" so far to you?)

my first instinct is to ask what the standard for significantly is, but i will refrain,

when i am working with little information it is very difficult for me,

and i guess maybe i haven't, i don't know i don't know i don't know

[giuseppina]

…..what in the perfectionist hell am I witnessing. Like is this typically an issue for you or something in games?

sometimes it is it certainly has been before,

like this exact conversation i am having with shirou is very reminiscent of costello pushing me for ~reads in binding of isaac, though different in some ways because the lights were off for me there,

there are probably better examples,

[giuseppina]

@Pina I need two of your most recent scum games

uh,

i think(?) these are my two most recent forum length games as mafia:

(i assume you do not want the dead silence game where mafia was secretly the majority and i was a mafia traitor)

trust fall - viewtopic.php?f=52&t=87247
normal blitz - viewtopic.php?f=84&t=88350

[giuseppina]

oh i am shiki in the first and inutile in the second

i feel like i am forgetting a game but i don't really know what it could be - only have one completed game since last spring and i was town in that and i was town in the gamma emerald normal i had to replace out of last september-ish, so i guess maybe i am not forgetting one

[giuseppina]

I think Pina is generally just completely clueless but in a townie way so i'm not as concerned about em.

i do not think i am clueless or pursuing perfection or whatever i just think i get overwhelmed and then when i try to force the things everything collapses

like there are a lot of things which have felt noteworthy but i don't know how to compare them and then people pushing me rather than trying to talk to me and help me (and i understand that that is the game and that is on me, i do) gets me all !!! which is not a state i can generally figure anything out from

[giuseppina]

i don't get why you want to end the day when we have five+ days left

[giuseppina]

i don't get why you want to end the day when we have five+ days left

Because it feels like we’re twiddling thumbs here
The deadline is not something that needs to be utilized to its fullest

i think it generally should be, at least as long as people are posting, gives more information, shrugs,

maybe not to it's absolute fullest because want to avoid certain wagons needing to be forced due to it, but i think it is generally beneficial to use most of it,

i do not understand why aristeia's flip would be inevitable or anything, lots of wagons can still be organized here and can very likely be done in ways other than what shirou is doing here, but i have multiple times previously taken the wheel of the ship (and sometimes steered it off the edge of the world), so

anyway, i'ma go away and try to come back more reasonable

[giuseppina]

Ur in the right game

why vote for una there while seemingly questioning shirou’s motives

[giuseppina]

it's kinda hard for me to see how shirou's push to end the day there comes from town

like pushing to eliminate una immediately when she wasn't around but was going to return soon while two other slots who have been suspected throughout the day are being replaced and multiple players are asking for time is !?!

like the only town reasoning i can really think of for it would be like,

like if shirou wanted to 'punish' (i know this isn't really the right word but too tired to find the right one) the town or whatever for how the day unfolded or something (which isn't impossible i guess - a player in the game i was talking about earlier asked the moderator how to concede on behalf of the town) but i guess i would rather think of it as being an alignment thing

[giuseppina]

tgp

thegoldenparadox hammer also ??? yeah

saying he just wants a flip which i assume would have to be for the information it'd provide when information from una and replacements still on the table and

and and five and a half days left to gather it

and there's the explaining the hammer thing instead of just doing it

--

i don't really know how to take into account aristeia selfvote or norwegianboyee saying shirou should never be suspected while shirou was in the midst of ~this

[giuseppina]

In a brief fit of zaniness I decided to abandon my gut and listen to the town

I didn't really have a good read on una anyway

hmm,

if only there were a way for you and others to get a better read on una,

but anyway dunno if it's really fair to hold that against you since wagon was pretty likely to be pushed through anyway

[giuseppina]

i think that almost everything shirou has done this game (including and especially the norwee fakeout thing) aligns closer to furthering what his goals would be as mafia and not what they would be as town

i guess i am kinda curious what you think those goals would be and how the norwegianboyee thing would be furthering them

[giuseppina]

oops apologies csf i will try to linebreak and/or punctuation more

?

[giuseppina]

oops apologies csf i will try to linebreak and/or punctuation more

?

i remembered her saying my posting was difficult for her to read when i first played with her and the previous post was somewhat run-on

could you link me to this please

or tell me where to find it

so i can stop worrying about if it's a slip

[giuseppina]

thankyou

[giuseppina]

thankyou again

this is particularly interesting to me as someone who has also adopted the linebreak for clarity among various other reasons

[giuseppina]

So pina you going to vote today?

i likely will yes

i likely would have yesterday too were a wagon not randomly pushed through

so i guess i might not if everyone decides to go that route again

[giuseppina]

VOTE: shurro

Wanna murder shurro before he starts spamming?

i actually thought about voting shirou at daystart for what it’s worth

[giuseppina]

If I had a gun, I’d flip Fire/Ari so fast. I’m just surprised how fast the wagon changed and with what seemed to be little reasoning. The replace out to me is NAI. Any alignment can get pissy feeling defeated and just peace out. Why did y’all flip…surely that wasn’t the reason.

the wagon changed because shirou changed it and then while hard pushing una was still saying ‘but if una town get aristeia!!!’ as if aristeia was the one eliminating una not shirou

[giuseppina]

Shirou didnt “change it” everyone followed and dropped it. That blame doesn’t really go to him unless we say he encouraged change. Everyone is responsible for themselves.

i don’t wholly disagree and am frustrated across the board with the way the day ended and everyone involved

but had shirou pushed through aristeia elimination instead then aristeia would have been eliminated not una

unless you disagree with that? which wouldn’t really make all that much sense to me as aristeia had even self-voted

like do i think gamma emerald and whoever else is town there should have unvoted and taken a step back and assessed? yup

do i think mafia would have been likely to take great advantage of shirou’s desire to end the day (even though shirou told me like three hours before that that was not his desire) if shirou is town (especially if aristeia was mafia but either way)? yep

but like i said before it’s pretty difficult to find any town motivation for any of that

and i don’t really understand why you feel shirou shouldn’t bear additional responsibility

aristeia would not have even been potentially eliminated at that exact moment either were it not for shirou randomly being bloodlusty so it’s weird to me that it seems like you wanted that pushed through but don’t think of it as shirou changing the target

[giuseppina]

Shirou didnt “change it” everyone followed and dropped it. That blame doesn’t really go to him unless we say he encouraged change. Everyone is responsible for themselves.

i don’t wholly disagree and am frustrated across the board with the way the day ended and everyone involved

but had shirou pushed through aristeia elimination instead then aristeia would have been eliminated not una

unless you disagree with that? which wouldn’t really make all that much sense to me as aristeia had even self-voted

like do i think gamma emerald and whoever else is town there should have unvoted and taken a step back and assessed? yup

do i think mafia would have been likely to take great advantage of shirou’s desire to end the day (even though shirou told me like three hours before that that was not his desire) if shirou is town (especially if aristeia was mafia but either way)? yep

but like i said before it’s pretty difficult to find any town motivation for any of that

and i don’t really understand why you feel shirou shouldn’t bear additional responsibility

aristeia would not have even been potentially eliminated at that exact moment either were it not for shirou randomly being bloodlusty so it’s weird to me that it seems like you wanted that pushed through but don’t think of it as shirou changing the target

and it’s not like i am faultless either - if you want to say my lack of direction contributed to the game being in a state where that could occur in the first place i would probably agree with you

[giuseppina]

the goals are mostly thread control and get townread

i don't think that it meaningfully accomplished anything that would benefit town it was just like pure performance to dance on top of town who will respond to it with "scum wouldn't do something that crazy, right?" and people who just saw him act in a surface level similar way in dance game

the comparisons kinda end at the surface level tho, i think his play in dance game made him town for reasons that aren't present here at all (there he clearly believed in his reads, and the level to which he pushed the push he was making wouldn't really help scum in the long run at all)

If you and Una were competing TvT wagons, I don't really see why Shirou had to do what he did there? What are your thoughts on that?

ik i said i wasn't gonna try to hero solve too much but i do think suspicion and support for a wagon was building on tgp at the time actually

and the time when una was eliminated was like the absolute peak of una limmability. there i think was a good enough chance that once she's not v/la she ends up getting more townread and can't be so easily pushed

just sitting back and letting two town wagons linger when a lot of the game is kinda afk or not actively pushing things and both of the wagons are on people who are talkative is dangerous

i think things over time could have easily turned and enough people start to townread both that now you've lost two lims for nothing. instead he gets to pull out some bs in 1360 to try to get both of them

i think there’s probably also noteworthy associatives with lucian (now gimli) since shirou kept asking aristeia about lucian/una solve and others had voiced suspicion of lucian at various points but shirou only ever focused on una

like some sort of implied if aristeia wrong and una is not mafia then lucian is not mafia either but aristeia probably is mafia? all of which doesn’t really add up

[giuseppina]

Pina my town read on you is starting to erode again the longer you don't vote.

I have this crazy theory that you are scum and decided to make it to the engame without voting as a bonus points challenge,

VOTE: shirou

i am voting solely to appease toto - please do not interpret this as any sort of endorsement of a shirou elimination right now

playing as a scums is difficult enough for me not to undertake any sort of ‘bonus points missions’ or anything like that

shrugs

dunno if you’re interested but here’s a game as town where the only vote i placed in the three days i was alive was an rvs vote in my very first post

viewtopic.php?p=11945809&user_select%5B%5D=34501

(that avatar is good enough to make going to find it worth it regardless)

anyway i’m not fully caught up going to get coffee then i will be around for a bit

pedit: …

[giuseppina]

Gamma Emerald

was killed Night 1. She was a

Vanilla townie

.

I'm surprised.

Historically commenting about the nightkill this way is kinda scum indicative and I avoid doing it because of that regardless of alignment, but this NK is so weird to me that I'm kinda "flabbergasted".

Even if scum didn't want to kill me, it really surprises me that they didn't kill Norwee. It, in fact, makes almost no sense to me except if I take a few convenient explanations and I don't want directly go into that. I need to reconsider this game.

kinda think the most apparent reason would be to make the wagon as a whole or at the very least those who followed you look better as gamma emerald's vote was accompanied by 'whatever' and such

[giuseppina]

The elimination was definitely gonna be one of Una/Ari there

i strongly disagree with this and do not really understand why you believe it to be true there have been many a game with wagons built in much less time than we had remaining

i don't really know how to take into account aristeia selfvote or norwegianboyee saying shirou should never be suspected while shirou was in the midst of ~this

It's because if you consider yourself a meta player and actually scum read me and Norwee here I don't know what to say to you.

There was two players in this list with a good track record of reading me: Una and Norwee. Both town read me rather strongly. What makes you think that two of the best people in historically suspecting me as scum early on (D1) are wrong but you're right?

As scum I know how to seem

superficially

townie and say "all the right things" to avoid suspicion, I don't remember a single scum game where I was heavily suspected for most of the time except maybe a meme 4p micro game which I wasn't interested on.

The fact I've been so

chaotic

that it's making people suspicious of me is a strong town indicator for me I believe. I'm somewhat chaotic as scum at certain points but definitely much less than here, because I know the "WIFOM" isn't worth it.

i do not consider myself a meta player as i told you earlier - that impression of me is simply a remnant of who i might have been at one point another universe maybe and so forth

una is the only one of those two i can take completely at face value as norwegianboyee's alignment remains unknown to me

i guess i do not really understand why you think only those with a track of reading you correctly should even bother reading you but eh

i certainly do not think i am more competent than una is but that doesn't change the way i feel right now

your 'chaos' felt like openwolfing to me at the end of the day (an end of the day that you did not allow una to witness and comment on and such so i do not know what she would think about that either) and 'i would only openwolf as town!' isn't all that convincing to me

[giuseppina]

kinda think the most apparent reason would be to make the wagon as a whole or at the very least those who followed you look better as gamma emerald's vote was accompanied by 'whatever' and such

Uh

No scum team would ever kill someone because of this I believe

There's many explanations for the Gamma kill but I don't think this is one of them honestly...

hm, feel like mafias do kill towns to make wagons look better for themselves but i also don't really do much night kill analysis and i can't really put myself in the place of the mafia team doing so here as i would likely just defer to teammates so maybe you are right about that i don't really know just seemed most apparent to me when thinking about it

[giuseppina]

I wanna think a bit more about this game and future postings before i come to any conclusions. Don’t wanna be wrong again.

it is so frustrating to me that there are players saying things like 'giuseppina is a scums if it doesn't vote!!!' and stuff like that

when i just

i just do not understand why this wouldn't have been your approach to day one in the first place

like why is it 'ope want to take my time and think about this game before i come to any conclusions don't wanna be wrong again' instead of not wanting to be wrong in the first place

[giuseppina]

Pina you remind me of NSG complaining to me like an older sister "you can't rush wagons! bad!" in Doubles Mafia

As much as I respect her I rushed the wagons anyway.

I'm literally here telling you that I've rushed the day this way in TM 2021 Black Flag, and also in Doubles Mafia (and probably in more games but I don't quite remember right now other than screaming through Norwee in his TM game as well that some eliminations needed to be rushed). In both scenarios I was town (I also believe what I did to MariaR/Furt elimination or even VPBaltar/Owen in Dance Game, was also basically "rushing).

I get scum reading me but I

absolutely don't get

saying

"I can't understand the non-scum motivation for this"

.

Here's your "town" motivation: I'm simply an impatient person but especially impatient as town given I want to know whether my reads are right or not as soon as possible. The curiosity of knowing whether I'm right or not is one of the things that often keeps me playing anyway. That's why for some time I spectated certain games and tried to solve in the dead thread: I could ask for instant spoilers when I was confident on a solve rather than waiting for weeks/a month to get results, not to mention the effort of convincing people.

Look we got Una wrong but if you could stop "tunneling" me for a bit (because you've only been talking about me since the day start and I think it's baffling it took you so long to have a "read" of sorts only to end up being me), I believe it would be better to everyone.

It would be better to me, but also better to you when I likely eventually flip town. Then you'll not need to start from 0 again because I feel you're starting to base too much of your understanding of the game around the possibility of me being scum (like your Gamma NK interpretation, imo).

I'm not saying you shouldn't scum read me if you want to, just like, maybe also consider other stuff/slots other than Una wagon/me?

sorry i know i am probably mostly whining

and i can keep both in my mind like my view of the game isn't 'shirou is definitely mafia' that's not how i function even if that isn't always apparent from my posts

and if you want to talk to me about other things please feel free to do so - it is kinda ??? to me that you were saying there wasn't anyone to solve the game with earlier when i feel like i have been here and willing but also

but also i guess maybe you just completely discount that as a possibility for whatever reason since you seem to be saying this is the first thought i've given all game which is .................????

but like i said, i wouldn't be starting from zero if you are town here, that's always a possibility, and my thinking about the nightkill stuff more leaned towards others that joined the wagon not you but i was not going to put much weight into anyway

[giuseppina]

I wanna think a bit more about this game and future postings before i come to any conclusions. Don’t wanna be wrong again.

it is so frustrating to me that there are players saying things like 'giuseppina is a scums if it doesn't vote!!!' and stuff like that

when i just

i just do not understand why this wouldn't have been your approach to day one in the first place

like why is it 'ope want to take my time and think about this game before i come to any conclusions don't wanna be wrong again' instead of not wanting to be wrong in the first place

I know you're 100% wrong on me so actually you took all that time but I believe you got it wrong anyway

I get your logic but you can't forever be scared of being wrong because it's basically impossible to never make mistakes. Be it on mafia, real life, your job or whatever we're talking about.

Making mistakes/getting things wrong and then learning from it is the consistent way to improvement I think. I don't want to deny your playstyle or anything though, but I think there's a very valid argument to taking the first steps boldly without overthinking it.

do not worry i have a lot of experience with getting things wrong

[giuseppina]

UNVOTE:

[giuseppina]

wait why do not like toto anymore

[giuseppina]

sorry if already stated please again

is it just the push on you

[giuseppina]

hm kinda agree with toto alot minus maybe me-related things

[giuseppina]

i think csf is town

i think this is kind of a temperature checking question to see where pushes can be made, which is a little +scum

but it could be innocuous

i kinda thought the same thing with regards to gimli question re:me especially since gimli then just townread me after fireisredsir said would oppose any push in my direction

it is like, i don’t really see how gimli would think my interaction with shirou there was super towny if gimli hadn’t thought anything else i have said was towny

[giuseppina]

Though I'm curious why Toto doesn't switch to tgp

... aren't you also voting shirou? and didn't you also make cases for both of them being scum individually?

guess i don't get why you think toto should switch when you have not switched

[giuseppina]

Im unsure about tgp, Totos stance is that both slots must die

There's some nuance there

hm, okay,

but why should thegoldenparadox die first,

like if town is town and toto thinks both slots must die, doesn't it make sense for toto to prioritize the shirou elimination due to thread control concerns toto has expressed and such,

[giuseppina]

*if toto is town

[giuseppina]

That sure is an answer to my question

sorry i guess i am wary of this like,

'well we might as well default to thegoldenparadox' thing it has felt like people have been expressing aubrey comes to mind but there have been others

and the like, 'well if both must die why not this one' felt odd to me

like you hadn't really thought about the reasons that might have been,

but sorry again i know i probably shouldn't do the answering for others thing so much it just felt kinda apparent to me

[giuseppina]

TGP I'm still confused why you didn't clarify that you didn't think it wasn't a hammer when you voted.

You looked at the E-4 post from Shurro, you said "nah", counted yourself, miscounted (fine so far), then... didn't clarify it was not a hammer? The post after the vote also reads a lot a like a post hammer post to me.

vote explanation?
announcing l-1/l-2 seems like a courtesy from my older days but it didn't actually come to my mind to announce l-1 lol

wait while you're here what gave you the impression that shirou thinks i am unsortable or that shirou believes in my ability

[giuseppina]

I also think Toto's ISO is really scummy, that was my other big one

why toto iso scummy

and also can you go over how you're viewing shirou

especially with regards to una wagon

[giuseppina]

hypocritical of me to ask but I would appreciate not hammering TGP yet

haven't had time or energy for this game atm

i would also greatly appreciate this

sorry for being somewhat absent or comparatively absent or whatever

busy and phone you know the drill

[giuseppina]

I find jokes like this scummy

the previous inhabitant of your slot was also quite fond of saying similar things re:anime if i remember correctly

hmhmhm

among other maybe notable similarities between aubrey and toto

Self-interest

don't think this is scummy - i kinda wanted to reply to your post about the game lacking a universal townread with 'it me' but thegoldenparadox is nullreading me because he thinks i am unsortable because he thinks that shirou thinks that i am unsortable or that shirou believes in my ability or something - i am not sure exactly as i do not think shirou finds me unreadable nor do i think shirou thinks highly of my ability and i attempted to ask thegoldenparadox about this but thegoldenparadox disparu and it seemed like a lot to addendum to 'it me'

Tone is really jokey, it's as if they don't really care

or this

like toto is presenting a readslist there in a way that toto probably finds somewhat comedic, yes, i can see that

but why does that imply toto does not care

and why is that not caring scum indicative

[giuseppina]

hm, other than ??? una vote at the end of day one save the dragons has been pretty towny yeah

[giuseppina]

We got this I think

What exactly is ur solve? Lemme see if it makes sense.

if you and shirou are both actually town here i think the worlds are not very numerous so i would appreciate you helping to resolve your half of that if

[giuseppina]

but also maybe i should be better at reading what you have posted so far if you’re town given but i do not have that feeling,

so!

[giuseppina]

shirou and thegoldenparadox wagons still feel better to me than fireisredsir

neither furtiveglance nor thegoldenparadox feel very towny to me and aristeia did at times as did fireisredsir’s beginning of day (which i know have to take into consideration that fireisredsir was reading before having an alignment and such but still)