Open 870 | White Flag Mountainous | Postgame

[Una]

VOTE: Aubrey

My phone is dying
I will try to read without skimming later

[Una]

VOTE: Aubrey

My phone is dying
I will try to read without skimming later

You skimmed one single page with barely any words?

Yeah I skimmed all the pages

[Una]

It's the avatar isn't it?...I shoulda stuck with the fox one I had. If only I got this much action on Tinder. Maybe I should put this avatar in the photo lineup...

The last time I put a photo on my dating profile just because people liked it in a mafia game, I started a 5 months relationship

[Una]

Careful!

[Una]

Shirou is town

[Una]

The saltiness is more likely to come from gamma being scum this game

Worst post in the thread as far as I have noticed.
It feels very flat and excessively unnuanced like trying to play low information phase as scum.

2 pedits

3 more pedits
2 more
1

[Una]

I'm excited to bloc w cake

[Una]

Why do you think Shirou is scum? He seems so relaxed

[Una]

Being nonrelaxed is scumtell for him. Unless I misremembere
his alignment from Jk9+ which is possible if I confbiased or something

Surface level relaxed but underneath, managing stuffs

[Una]

Being nonrelaxed is scumtell for him

. Unless I misremembere
his alignment from Jk9+ which is possible if I confbiased or something

Hmm...

Now I'm curious about you, that's actually a good meta read of me although I was also self-aware of it so I could at anytime change

I just didn't know someone else had ever noticed that, and it's usually not good enough WIFOM to do that as scum in a playerlist that doesn't know your meta, because no one will get you're trying to copy your town meta in the first place

You're wrong on one thing though...I'm not "working underneath" at all here

Near 0 thoughts passing in the solvy side of my brain in this game so far

That paragraph was a characterization of your scumgames tbc

[Una]

Relaxed only in a superficial way

[Una]

Idk if pina can walk through 198 as scum but maybe I underestimate her prowess triggers

[Una]

Shirou is town

I don’t like this for example.
Very early, confident, and bold claim on Shirou’s allignment. Shirou being town here suggests to me it could be pocketing attempt. Scum like to identify strong town early and townread them so they get in good relations with potential trouble later on, even if the town player in question hasn’t looked town at all yet because it’s too early in the game to tell.
I think i can be so bold to say that i’m the best player at reading Shirou here and i did not trust them by post 38 which is when you posted this.

I don't think that's the best way to play scum so I don't play that way. If I'm playing scum I try to guess whether I would be townreading someone and emulate it.
Your last sentence contradicts itself, because if you think other players understand shirou less that you should have many opportunities to watch him snow people. You're a little bit scummy because the thought process is focused on being right rather than stepping in my shoes and scum sometimes focus on who is right.

[Una]

Idk if pina can walk through 198 as scum but maybe I underestimate her prowess triggers

ya know this game was the first time in recent memory where part of me really wanted to roll mafia/wanted the opportunity to try to impress you and such

but alas

Not fortress?

[Una]

no i am saying all of those players are capable of heavy solving and so it becomes very difficult to weigh

Is this talking about only the capability of heavy solving as town, or as heavy solving as either alignment?

well shirou and aristeia are definitely capable of a very downhill sort of solving that is very apparently town that i do not think they’d do as a scums, but are they and you and gamma emerald and una all capable of taking an active solving role as mafia, yeah probably but that doesn’t mean that shouldn’t be the expectation

a) that’s certainly more difficult for you to do as mafia than not doing so, yes?

and

b) it’s probably easier (for me at least) to tell the difference between players doing that as town vs as mafia rather than what everyone has been doing so far

like do i think gamma emerald would be more easily sorted were she taking an active role here? yes

Ok but what if I'm having more fun

[Una]

I've seen pina be more sarcastic this game than in all its other games combined. Although maybe it's more "proof by counterfactual" than sarcastic

[Una]

Lucian hasn't been radiant

[Una]

VOTE: Gamma if it's not there. Probably worse than Norwee

[Una]

Idk if pina can walk through 198 as scum but maybe I underestimate her prowess triggers

ya know this game was the first time in recent memory where part of me really wanted to roll mafia/wanted the opportunity to try to impress you and such

but alas

Not fortress?

nah i wanted to roll town in fortress

kinda hard for me to find an approach to that setup to apply as mafia among other concerns

and i didn’t yet have such a desire to impress you

This revelation makes me have to townread you less because people are generally way less likely to lie about pregame sentiments, so I could try to explain "pina is posting long logic trails it doesn't do as scum" with "pina is trying to impress me and tapping into level 2 strength reserves".

[Una]

Pina is Vmax evolving

[Una]

This game has like six scum

[Una]

It's so weird how I forget important things that happened IRL but remember most of my mafia games. Maybe it's because they are relatively long? Doesn't seem like I'm the unique person like that given how you remembered so many games you weren't even in (except neighbor?).

I read this post while scrolling from the bottom and reading upwards and knew this text was a shirou post without seeing the username.

I think you are just a mafia elemental.

You are like a Blastoise saying "garsh it's easy as breathing to remember water gun which is weird in how I can't remember ember to save my life"

You are such a mafia-y person. Even and especially in how I don't think you're a very WR person

[Una]

Shirou is town

I don’t like this for example.
Very early, confident, and bold claim on Shirou’s allignment. Shirou being town here suggests to me it could be pocketing attempt. Scum like to identify strong town early and townread them so they get in good relations with potential trouble later on, even if the town player in question hasn’t looked town at all yet because it’s too early in the game to tell.
I think i can be so bold to say that i’m the best player at reading Shirou here and i did not trust them by post 38 which is when you posted this.

I don't think that's the best way to play scum so I don't play that way. If I'm playing scum I try to guess whether I would be townreading someone and emulate it.
Your last sentence contradicts itself, because if you think other players understand shirou less that you should have many opportunities to watch him snow people. You're a little bit scummy because the thought process is focused on being right rather than stepping in my shoes and scum sometimes focus on who is right.

I don’t get it what you’re saying in the end of your post.
I’m not focused on being right. In fact, i’ve come to my conclusion from trying to see the game from your perspective and whether that perspective is likely to be of town alignment. I’m saying that you are approaching the beginning of day 1 from a scum mindset rather than an town mindset.
Early townread on Shirou by you is questionable in both intent behind it and the logic made in approaching such an conclusion. The discrepency in your logic here can be explained by scum mindset of starting day 1 with survival in mind rather than genuinely trusting Shirou to be of town alignment due to genuinely reading the player to be so. Hence my suspicion.

Shirou has never attacked me in a game of mafia and could be paranoia'd or BoP'd at any lategame point
Shirou himself doesn't think he's revealed too little alignment.

[Una]

Shirou is town

I don’t like this for example.
Very early, confident, and bold claim on Shirou’s allignment. Shirou being town here suggests to me it could be pocketing attempt. Scum like to identify strong town early and townread them so they get in good relations with potential trouble later on, even if the town player in question hasn’t looked town at all yet because it’s too early in the game to tell.
I think i can be so bold to say that i’m the best player at reading Shirou here and i did not trust them by post 38 which is when you posted this.

I don't think that's the best way to play scum so I don't play that way. If I'm playing scum I try to guess whether I would be townreading someone and emulate it.
Your last sentence contradicts itself, because if you think other players understand shirou less that you should have many opportunities to watch him snow people. You're a little bit scummy because the thought process is focused on being right rather than stepping in my shoes and scum sometimes focus on who is right.

what
I don't get what you're saying here
is it like, you think norwee should be able to tell if Shirou is pocketing people by seeing interactions between Shirou and others?

Snow doesn't mean pocket. And me, not others.
He doesn't have to know for sure, but he's asserting the contrary when he seems to rule out that I could be town mistakenly granting shirou town stature for insufficient posting

[Una]

It's frustrating to get naked voted after repeatedly re explaining nitpicked "huh what you mean" responses to my posts

Instead of like, you disliking the original posts and finding them scummy.

Like fmpov I reexplained a point to two people I think are scum as an exercise in civic duty since they might not be scum

Then Ari naked vote

-_-

Mafia gaemplae

[Una]

Shirou is town

I don’t like this for example.
Very early, confident, and bold claim on Shirou’s allignment. Shirou being town here suggests to me it could be pocketing attempt. Scum like to identify strong town early and townread them so they get in good relations with potential trouble later on, even if the town player in question hasn’t looked town at all yet because it’s too early in the game to tell.
I think i can be so bold to say that i’m the best player at reading Shirou here and i did not trust them by post 38 which is when you posted this.

I don't think that's the best way to play scum so I don't play that way. If I'm playing scum I try to guess whether I would be townreading someone and emulate it.
Your last sentence contradicts itself, because if you think other players understand shirou less that you should have many opportunities to watch him snow people. You're a little bit scummy because the thought process is focused on being right rather than stepping in my shoes and scum sometimes focus on who is right.

what
I don't get what you're saying here
is it like, you think norwee should be able to tell if Shirou is pocketing people by seeing interactions between Shirou and others?

Snow doesn't mean pocket. And me, not others.
He doesn't have to know for sure, but he's asserting the contrary when he seems to rule out that I could be town mistakenly granting shirou town stature for insufficient posting

Did you or did you not townread them for insufficient posting?

If I definitively knew the answer to that mafia wouldn't be much of a game would it? I'm not playing "acknowledgement of uncertainty is disallowed" mafia

[Una]

Actually, I wanna say that's townie for Gamma because she's surely aware how scummy that sounds and wouldn't actually type that and press Submit if she were scum.

Right?

I don't think she's definite scum but I would read it at face value instead of level1 WIFOM.

[Una]

Aubrey is joking..gamma are you maf

[Una]

I think Klick's interestingnottown stuff is slightly towny. It's easy to understand the framework and remember it as scum but a little dating to apply it to people when yout detractors can go "whoa those people are so interesting"
Should be a little careful of town locking a good MD post tho

[Una]

Maybe you will read me better on this alt

It changes my mindset

But only a little

Everyone should purchase and read donuts under a crescent moon volume 1-3 to read me better actually.

[Una]

So you're not unconditionally town? Thats interesting

[Una]

I think needing to be sure whether or not something is a joke is a scum feeling but I might be confbiased

[Una]

I think she's defaulted into voting me when she isn't sure what else she wants to do in the past. It makes sense as like a side effect of thinking she should probably vote me in about 25% of my games and the play pattern indicating which 25 won't come up often. Not that it's perfectly rational.

I get the gist of her Lucian shading and don't feel alarmed by it.
I overall still have her as town as the default alignment I guess, hope to develop a read later. It'll probably be all at once

[Una]

I'm not playing "acknowledgement of uncertainty is disallowed" mafia

[Una]

Doesn’t feel like you’re allowing yourself to be uncertain regarding me though

I guess we can summarize this series of posts as you refusing to interact because I did not use a starting point of townreading or null reading you

This has been productive

[Una]

Yes

[Una]

Yes

Then you presumably were acting on that when you asked that
The problem with that is you

already scumread me

so it should have just confirmed your earlier read
And like, you said “I could be confbiased” after that so that wasn’t entirely out of your mind
VOTE: Una
Feels like you’re trying to walk two roads of consistently calling me scum while also trying to feign openness to me being town

I don't understand what you're saying, don't you want to develop corroborating different angles to be sure about a read?

How would genuine openness to you being town look different Gamma?

[Una]

Maybe try asking someone else like pina has been doing rather than throwing a loaded question at the person you’re trying to read?

"Are you maf" isn't a loaded question though you can just check the PM petapan sent you and let me know if it said "you are mafia" or not.
It is probably not the way you'd prefer me to engage with you but it's among the ways that can have a somewhat more readable response. Certainly more readable than only interacting with other players, which is a tough sell as the next best alternative

[Una]

Shirou your setup sounds pretty playable to me but let's work out the exact rules in the scum PT.

[Una]

Gamma if you are town in this game the strategy is to just claim town and win we all don't lim those people and lim the people who get uncomfortable and weird and say "depends on whether you're serious and depends who you who you ask" and after two lims petapan shows us the scum PT

[Una]

I'm pocketed by gifs

[Una]

You can also have more fun if you fluffpost. The effectivity stuff is also true.
A really good scum strategy is to fluffpost in the scum PT to have the same amount of fun, but seriouspost in the game thread because seriouspost is easier as scum. I do that most times that I roll scum.

[Una]

You can also have more fun if you fluffpost. The effectivity stuff is also true.
A really good scum strategy is to fluffpost in the scum PT to have the same amount of fun, but seriouspost in the game thread because seriouspost is easier as scum. I do that most times that I roll scum.

Does your soul hurt Una

Gamma posted a cute gif when I'm scum reading her my soul is literally in two pieces

[Una]

In progress? Are you going to drop an essay?

Yes, I'm on chapter 5 right now.

The chapter name is "Apocalypse".

None of the chapters of Doughnuts Under a Crescent Moon are named Apocalypse

[Una]

Shirou is offering to do soul surgery
^_^

[Una]

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE
I don't need much incentive here since I already found the slot scummy.

I dislike secrete meta tell preservation though it's kinda angleshooting

[Una]

604 and 606 are towny

I think Shirou was kinda meming with "vote norwee or throw" but if he was serious it's silly yes.

[Una]

and yeah ‘this is my scumread everyone sheep it i may or may not post my reasoning at some point’ is obviously pretty unreasonable

i do not think i would be given any leeway if i were to attempt to take this approach (not that i would be likely to anyway)

I don't think Shirou should be townread for not doing anything and then deciding to actually do something like this. He was already getting comments about being scum, and a lot of this game is familiar with New Year Dance, where he was pretty confident about things and pushing the game forward. Not saying he's scum for it. But also I am annoyed about there not being an actual case or anything on Norwee.

622 is probably townie. Persistence that scum doesn't bother faking much, I think.

I feel like you might be scum because hedging about the whole lobby but confessing that pina is obvtown is what I did one scumroll ago

Heehee

[Una]

625 was errorquote

[Una]

Ok you should try it tho it's a successful way to play scum I was gonna win my minigame rly

[Una]

Am scum lucian

[Una]

644 has a typo with a missing I

[Una]

Am

am i the town in the

‘just claim town and then we won’t eliminate you’

example?

So, I guess there's kind of two paradigms about how to interact with alignment claims in mafia, "no one ever claims their alignment because the mechanics of mafia render it absurd" and "everyone claims their alignment repeatedly". Gamma either always prefers the former independent of alignment or if she goes back and forth imo she's slightly more likely mafia for adopting the former this game.

Universally I think it is easier for scum to thrive in paradigm one. Paradigm one has way less cognitive load. Rephrasings of town claims can occasionally be difficult to be natural, yes it's not one of the hardest things we ever force scum to fake but equity is equity. And like players being allowed by paradigm to focus on arguments being wrong rather than focusing on how an argument will eliminate a towny with their own subjective deductions; like townclaiming underlying every feud; it removed a dimension for getting a bit of sift against scum.

I wouldn't be surprised if you're more of a universal townclaimer, but I think taking a townclaim style exposes a little bit of surface area and when that surface area is clean you're a little bit townier.

Nutcracker game has this weird metastrategy you did that puts scum in a different position from town, that's a pretty separate thing, it necessarily required statements of your own alignment though.

In pokemon I never comment about how many drapions I have even though it could be viewed as WIFOM, I don't make statements like "we both know I might like about this but I'm running Drapion". Just because posturing and phrasing can always reveal a little information about WIFOM anytime you comment on WIFOM. I like joking about having powerful murder cards though so I always use complete jokes like "I have blue eyes white dragon" of course

Wow what a ramble

[Una]

I'd bus someone for free but I'm not sure I would bus a player like Norwee who would be very upset about it and give off bad associatives

[Una]

I think Lucian might be scum

[Una]

I think Lucian might be scum

Do you wanna, like, do anything about it?

No Una:Lucian::Lucian:Aristeia

[Una]

Shirou is a national treasure

[Una]

Ur a national treasure 2 pina

[Una]

Do you unironcally expect to flip rn Shirou

[Una]

Is it because I'm pretty

[Una]

Bus as traitor then jester strat d2, always wins

[Una]

Why is Cake town I want to feel it

[Una]

I majored in math

[Una]

Maybe I'm bad at mafia I didn't get the Norwee obvtown

[Una]

723 only tells me that scumreading a vulnerable slot 4 times before deductive reasoning behind it has coalesced enough to warrant any text is nagl.

Pedit: I appreciate reasoning in the pedit.

I scumleaned norwee before you pushed him and he snowed me to varying extents in back to back previous games of norwee scum which biases me a bit towards deference. It was why?Gun and that game where GB was the other scum

Haven't played with him in a while

It is pretty predictable that people like pina would demand reasoning before the actual stringing when you yourself told people not to go past E2, complaining that I also didn't whine for it is a bit like calling me scum for not cleaning the car litter yesterday, which I am scum for but only IRL

[Una]

Nah, I actually see you as one of, if not the best scumhunter in this list,

Also

quueee?????

I'm so bad at town

[Una]

Im decently good at getting the lims I want as town, but not very good at them being redflips

[Una]

There's not really any paragons in this list at least, sry to anyone who feels they are a paragon

[Una]

VOTE: Aristeia for now

[Una]

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=83676&hilit=+Norwee

Doesn't matter that you didn't carry why gun, I still couldn't read you.
And from the other direction, I didn't like that I needed your roleclaim to read you correctly in Noir (although that was so early, maybe I would have had time to course correct)

[Una]

Tfw a guy spells "complement" correctly according to which homophone is being used

[Una]

I think youve expressed several times you're more confident in your less popular Lucian read. I'm concerned about whether remorse is actually involved here

[Una]

Rly I'm slightly hurt by town!shirou gamethrow and heavily hurt by scum!shirou making an optimal play instead of slightly slightly weaker lines that let me hang out day 2 and 3 don't we have so much fun together.

You break my heart

I'm not actually sure how to read the sequence of feints

[Una]

I kinda wanna not think about Gamma for a while and think about Gamma again later to reduce confbias.

If it's red color feelings not time it's more separately two data points.

The gist of Norwee's observation that some of her reactions to pushing may be universal in nature resonates some

[Una]

I want to say cakes last post is really townie but I know it will see like I feel that way bc pockets

[Una]

I feel like scumcakes only posts 1-2 names

[Una]

she is surrendering to the power of anime and love

On that note if you flashwagon me today I don't have to think about this game during partner VlA tomorrow and Sunday

[Una]

We are even gonna watch anime!

[Una]

Rly I'm slightly hurt by town!shirou gamethrow and heavily hurt by scum!shirou making an optimal play instead of slightly slightly weaker lines that let me hang out day 2 and 3 don't we have so much fun together.

You break my heart

Oh, I just realized that if you're town you should town read me just for the fact I'm trying to kill you here for no good reason!

Like, I didn't nightkill you even when I should in N1 of that game I was scum vs town!you, I probably really would try to save your slot here if we weren't partners in that hypothetical scum!Shirou scenario

I'm uninformed town that can't risk delaying your wagon because it may look bad on me later if you're scum unfortunately

I'm not actually sure how to read the sequence of feints

I know, it's half intentional

I find that at least somewhat compelling

[Una]

At least somewhat kind of arising from the WIFOM and nuance of mafia in general. The logic is pretty sound

[Una]

this could be the most convoluted bus of all time from shirou to una

Shirou expect pina to post that but we were going to NK it anyway. You're supposed to be the D3 lim so we rly need you to not ask your followers to retweet this too many times

[Una]

I kinda wanna not think about Gamma for a while and think about Gamma again later to reduce confbias.

If it's red color feelings not time it's more separately two data points.

The gist of Norwee's observation that some of her reactions to pushing may be universal in nature resonates some

Una what is your concept of my scumgame because our recent games may be a sign it’s off-base presuming you’re town here

I read you correctly in the multi neighborhood game but it was odd something much more specific and smoking gun and solid compared to anything I've been concerned about here. I don't think I've read all your play as a whole and developed a strong accurate read of your alignment since the hellgame giant invitational thingy where by day 3 I thought you were just town. That is a troublingly long time ago isn't it!

It doesn't mean I don't take a crack at trying to read you, I think BoPing my read of your slot based on history would be rough. Idk anyone I should get BoPed for misreading. Maybe like. Firebringer. Idk

[Una]

complaining that I also didn't whine for it

I'm not complaining for that though?

My read on you is mostly uninvolved from Norwee's stuff, I was just hoping you would do something particularly towny during the "Norwee stuff" to change my mind perhaps. What I did complain in regards to Norwe is the fact you seemed to be suspicious of him but made a complete 180º turn as soon as I said he's town, even if you say you trust me on him, I feel like the town!Una I know wouldn't fold this exact way.

Some other players also suggested his reaction may be town. Idk. Im not rushing to answer a question I got wrong before day 1. It feels like you're trying to read me with D0 noflip VCA instead of a lot of better ways to read me that I hope exist.
Is your suspicion of me primarily based in the sequence of disapprove approve disapprove for a Norwee elimination or is there something about the way or was stated?

[Una]

We were S-T in JK. Before that S-T in chiptune but I think I pretty differently on e instead of alcohol anyway

It's an interesting way for you to feel because fortress was stilted agony and I've been enjoying this game a lot with the new rolecard. It's rare that a towngame feels grindy like being VT isn't much different, but it's not that rarity, I'm less surprised getting misread in those

[Una]

*play pretty differently

[Una]

Can you highlight your favorite Lucian hedgpost? Sorry if that's homeworky

[Una]

Toto is towntown norwee

[Una]

Whoa if Lucian has 6 scummy posts I must have quite the folder.

I think the pina progression kinda makes sense. I think the Gamma stuff did feel a bit weird and maybe reffish or something and could see some light in scumreading that

[Una]

so what's your take on Una now?

I don't know. She was leaning scum for me a bit back. I don't think I've properly absorbed almost anything in the past few pages because a lot of it feels like noise and I'm annoyed with the game.

Why are you annoyed?

[Una]

Am I noise

I'm sorry

[Una]

I should play micros

[Una]

I'm crying in my car after work. I'm so exhausted. At work sometimes I'm called one of the "software guys". In a discord 20 minutes ago I was collectivized as one of the "guys". Now you are not using my pronoun because you want to lim me and there's some weird pattern about when you use prescribed pronouns. This is not a one-off, I've had dialogue with you were I have told you that a preference for a gender pronouns is valid and in general you've said meh. That changes the context. A trans person is always going to think about what gender they're being perceived as. I don't want to care. It's not that I want to create a Simon says. It is who I am. If you don't really think of me as having a gender, communicating that triggers my dysphoria.
Crying seems like a watermark where I should rep out but then I don't get to say anything. I won't rep out.
I guess I won't ask you to refer to me correctly it's rude to ask a favor twice. I can't necessarily get any support about it since people split on it.

I told my gf I should just game in person instead of playing online games since I pass in person, a few minutes before the post. Maybe idk.

Something game related um. TGP is probably town.

[Una]

Toto's probe about the gambit seems genuinely uninformed instead of engineered to make Shirou's answer look bad.

Lucian's frustration when he wasn't really in that much danger seems more agency oriented and might indicate he's town, although I'm still sympathetic to the idea he has not Done Anything

I will post tomorrow before I leave town and post right when I get back, unlikely to post while out of town. I should end up breaking a 24 hour activity guideline but not 36, this game uses 48

[Una]

TGP's post in 865 contrasts with Toto's in terms of the balance of comfort discomfort curiosity/outrage I expect from scum vs town. If Toto is scum they've emulated a townie mixture pretty well but TGP doesn't seem to have curiosity about shirou's alignment beneath the outrage about his antics. As like. A vibe.

I have not read all the way up, won't till tomorrow, will UNVOTE: because I saw at least one more Ari vote and idk about flipping Ari or not; cast a vote Monday for sure

[Una]

Oh klick asked me about Gamma, I'd say nullscum

Driving now