Open 177 (Monks and Masons) - Game Over.

[Fuzzyman]

Why does it seem that everybody is justifying everything with, "It doesn't matter since you were nowhere close to lynch"? A vote is a signifier of intent to lynch.

[Fuzzyman]

Is this really all you have to add so far?

It's a valid question.

[Fuzzyman]

I agree with ODDin that the Farside/Scien skirmish was a lot about nothing. Nikanor has my empathy for being attacked for lurking.


I'm not saying that we need to be absolutely positive to vote for somebody; we rarely have that sort of feeling towards somebody. Regardless, on principle, one should only vote for those whom they would feel comfortable lynching. Also, I don't like pressure votes. It creates too great a scapegoat for people who vote badly, whether those people do so unintentionally or otherwise.

[Fuzzyman]

What would you have done in farside's shoes?

Bought a new pair, her shoes would probably be too big for me .__. ~ Hayl

[Fuzzyman]

(Fuzzyman) Joins with Nik in blowing a vote out of proportion

Where? Farside's vote? When I said the argument was a lot about nothing, I meant it referring to # of pages, words, etc., not the severity of the accusations, which was indeed little.

playing up the victim card

Only so far as my post could be considered buddying with Nikanor. Having empathy isn't a plea for sympathy.

excuses his own silence at the same time

I've not dismissed any shots at my inactivity. What are you talking about?

attempts to stifle a townie's only weapon

I have no interest in this; I only want for it to be used wisely.

and excuses mislynching on principle.

No, I said that my principle dictated that one should only vote for those whom they would be comfortable lynching.

[Fuzzyman]

I have a bad cpu virus and am lucky to post this. if anye can ask Meme suspend my moderating game to md-November, I'll owe you a favor.

I PM'd MeMe for you. Get better soon. ~ Hayl

[Fuzzyman]

I'm glad to say that I have found a workaround for the time being and will notbe V/LA.

[Fuzzyman]

I did address one comment to Fuzzy, who posted several times on D1 but ignored this thread (see his profile/recent posts). He hasn't responded why he did so, so I'm left to assume he WAS lurking.

I prefer the term "minimally neccesitated to speak".

[Fuzzyman]

FoS are, as a whole, entirely pointless.

Yeah. No intention to lynch means no pressure. Asking questions is better.

Is there anybody out there that disagrees with this?

[Fuzzyman]

Is there anybody out there that disagrees with this?

You see, to apply pressure you need to make clear that you're ready to lynch, sure. That said, you might pressure somebody without intending to lead it all the way to the lynch just there. Not every vote means that if everybody else votes right at that moment for that person you're going to be satisfied.
There is such a thing as "pressure votes", and they are being used extensively, whether you like it or not.

I think he was looking for counter argument, which quite frankly sounds like scum participating and promoting the discussion of theory over game.

unvote; Vote Fuzzyman

I haven't been satisfied with your additions to discussion.

I'm not trying to detract from game-specific argument by creating theory argument; besides, theory argument never even happens within games unless it's related to the game.

[Fuzzyman]

The one thing I'd most like to see is for this:

2) I asked you about this around three times. I asked you where you thought the 'good thought' was in the two. You ignored the first two questions, then got 'angry' when I called you out on ignoring them. You then answered with "I think both are weak", which I took to mean you thought both of them were not 'good'. Apparently now you are saying something else.

which was in response to this:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 07#1933707
2] This is where our and yes I say our miscommunication starts. The good idea was about oddin. The weak idea is wolfy. You talk about it being null (my words) in regards to wolfy but what you failed to realize or see I thought the musing on Oddin was valid

to be responded to by farside. I'll be glad to get to Oddin's questionnaire after that post.

[Fuzzyman]

unvote; Vote Fuzzyman

I haven't been satisfied with your additions to discussion.

Satisfied with Yami's?

[Fuzzyman]

Wulfy, you accept newb cards?

[Fuzzyman]

Why does it seem that everybody is justifying everything with, "It doesn't matter since you were nowhere close to lynch"? A vote is a signifier of intent to lynch.

Why did you state this, instead of your thoughts about some players?

It was an observation on the Maemuki wagon.

What would you have done in farside's shoes?

Bought a new pair, her shoes would probably be too big for me .__. ~ Hayl

At whom was this aimed, Fuzzy?

YankCane, after he said he didn't like Farside going at Scien in the RVS (as opposed to some other time, rather than being as opposed to not doing so at all).

Also,

Fuzzy

, you stated earlier that you don't like pressure votes. Why didn't you comment on ODDin's vote?

What, do you want me to put everybody's votes in quote boxes individually and attack them? This question could be asked of me regarding anybody's vote.

[Fuzzyman]

It's really a fairly quick read right now. I think I'll do one after showering.

[Fuzzyman]

I feel that the Scien point I brought up in 168 was the most important one that you haven't answered. That's why I mentioned it. And to be quite honest, I feel somewhat inclined to go ahead and vote you if you don't care to do so.

[Fuzzyman]

I feel that the Scien point I brought up in 168 was the most important one that you haven't answered. That's why I mentioned it. And to be quite honest, I feel somewhat inclined to go ahead and vote you if you don't care to do so.

I realize this isn't directed at me, but I would like you to restate and possibly rephrase the question. Do the latter only if it needs to be updated to the current state of affairs in the game.

There's not as much a question as me trying to call farside out on selectively answering questions during the Scien/Farside debate.

[Fuzzyman]

I feel that the Scien point I brought up in 168 was the most important one that you haven't answered. That's why I mentioned it. And to be quite honest, I feel somewhat inclined to go ahead and vote you if you don't care to do so.

How did I not answer it?

"You didn't answer it", as in, "Scien called you out in post 146, subsection 2, for ignoring the fact that he had inquired as to what you had referred to when you said that he had a good idea but random voted instead; you failed to make a response to this even while choosing to answer other items that Scien brought up to you.

[Fuzzyman]

Would you say that you necessitated Scien to ask that multiple times?

[Fuzzyman]

Did you not even read my reason's for the vote? That is not OMGUS. OMGUS is I vote you for voting me. That is clearly not the case. Again you twist things that are not fact.

But you could be making an crap argument to support his lynch. Hey, I've seen it happen.

You gonna throw that out without saying whether or not you think that's the case?

[Fuzzyman]

2) At one point Fuzzy said he's going to reply to my questions just after he got an answer from farside. While the significance and relevance of these questions is lower now, it's still worthy to note that he didn't, actually, answer them at any point.

Whoop!

1. My opinion on Scien wasn't really lowered at all; I myself disagree with the thinking that random voting an unconfirmed person is a lead.

2. Farside was maybe making temporary dodges on questions while immediately answering other ones.

3. Probably farside for the above and the fact that I'm on your side with the word-twisting debate.

@ Rice: You do know they have a whole commitee dedicated to making sure Opens aren't broken, right?

[Fuzzyman]

Arg. It's starting to seem like I'm not allowed to agree with others, lest I be accused of buddying. It happens every game. I guess that I'm not allowed to use the same excuse for my inactivity that others are using, that others are doing it worse, or that'll be buddying too.

I think that there was a consistent tendecy in farside during her debate with Scien to answer only parts of things directed at her. Instances of this include her only responding to the last paragraph of post 139, and picking just the last two sentences of 146 to give immediate response to.

When you acknowledge that someone has made comments regarding you, which farside does when she responds to at least a portion of a post, but only respond to parts of it, trying to keep attention away from the others, it is scummy.

I bet that since I'm leading in votes right now, this'll be an OMGUS, too.

Vote: farside22

[Fuzzyman]

Or maybe it can be more buddying with ODDin, because he's incidentally voting for her too.

[Fuzzyman]

(We can see your AtE. It doesn't work here.)

Strong disagreement with this.

So far you haven't show how i missed any question or what questions I missed. If any.

Read again.

[Fuzzyman]

If you claim that I'm going AtE, what emotion is it I'm appealing to?

[Fuzzyman]

My vote on Fuzzy isn't opportunistic at all. It's actually the most original and makes the most sense out of all votes on him right now, considering I'm a town Mason with him and although he's confirmed not Mafia I'm pretty damn sure he's a Werewolf.

Probably don't need Monks to claim today.

UNVOTE;VOTE:Fuzzy

What's this supposed to mean? From what I see it is either

a) Hewitt is making a faux pas by claiming, so let's consequentially vote Fuzzy.

b) We should lynch Fuzzy before he gets back and confirms the claim.

I don't understand a motive for either of these, and B may be scummy depending on the explanation given.

[Fuzzyman]

Fuzzy continues to read like he's jumping on a bandwagon without really understanding it or having any solid reasons.

Cool. I go find some dirt on farside after others have found other dirt, and it's bandwagoning.

Refusing to clarify his questions while voting farside for not answering them (as I believe she

did

) is horrible.

My case is there is a significant number of farside posts answering portions of people's posts, while delaying answers for other portions. I dunno if it can be better explained than that.

Nor is he introducing anything new; his only real question was someone else's to begin with.

I didn't see this.

I'm also not thrilled with the emotional reaction to a fairly weak vote.

This is a reasonable attack on me.

[Fuzzyman]

For all we know the two Masons might both be Werewolves, or the two Monks might both be Mafia.

...

Nothing prohibiting it.

[Fuzzyman]

Strangely enough Haylen posted the setup as having 1-2 Masons and 1-2 Monks. How can there be only one of either?!

[Fuzzyman]

Did the number of scum just get leaked?

[Fuzzyman]

The there's never enough bacon on my sandwich Vote Count

Fuzzyman: Scien, Hewitt, Riceballtail
Farside22: Fuzzyman
Scien: ZazieR
Maemuki: Wulfy
Riceballtail: ODDing, Farside22, ElectricBadger


Not Voting: Maemuki, Canada
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Countdown to deadline is here
Lots of love,
Hayl xxx

Where did I say I was gung-ho about lynching a mason? I was rather disappointed Fuzzy was one, but I'm too sure he's scum to think of anything else.

Unvote; Vote: Riceballtail

I hadn't confirmed being a mason when you said this. I am only doing so now. As such, the only way that you could be sure that I'm a mason is hewitt telling you in the pregame.

[Fuzzyman]

Meh. Guess the trap failed then. I still think everybody here* wants an explanation for Post 330, though.

* As farside has noted, Zazie needs to get replaced.

[Fuzzyman]

And you still haven't explained the 330 monster.

[Fuzzyman]

Farside is not forging statements, Rice. You said it.

[Fuzzyman]

" I do believe it is helpful to have the pairs listed, as one flipping scum will confirm a town"

[Fuzzyman]

To me, and apparently farside unless she says she was speaking of something else, the sentence I just quoted is the one in which you indicate that you think a Mason/Monk lynch would be beneficial. I don't know how I can explain more clearly.

Off subject, do you accuse me of being a Werewolf or a Goon?

[Fuzzyman]

Why are you voting me? You quoted hewitt's claim when you voted, which indicates to me that his claim at least in part motivated you to. I can't see for the life of me how it did, though.

[Fuzzyman]

Also, it's less than 72 hours to the deadline. We seriously need to get a lynch on me or Rice.

[Fuzzyman]

On the other hand, I may not be the one in second right now.

Mod: May we have a vote count?

(I'm trying to find excuses to bump the thread)

[Fuzzyman]

The stupid duck Vote Count

Riceballtail: ODDing, Farside22, ElectricBadger, Fuzzyman
Fuzzyman: Scien, Hewitt, Riceballtail
Scien: ZazieR
Maemuki: Wulfy

Not Voting: Maemuki, Canada
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Countdown to deadline is here
Lots of love,
Hayl xxx

You are yet to tell ODDin where he was "coaching" me, the AtE accusation on me is controversial, and my activity, although not the best, has been fairly consistent, I think. If it seems I am posting more because of suspicion on me, it is worth noting that I may also be more active because we are

only 66 hous away from a dealine, people

.

[Fuzzyman]

Hewitt, nothing changing, who will your vote be on at deadline?

[Fuzzyman]

Then allow me to expand that question to everybody:

Who is your deadline vote?

[Fuzzyman]

I doubt a lurker lynch on Maemuki is viable.

[Fuzzyman]

The following is an UNOFFICIAL vote count. It should not be construed as or mistaken to be created or endorsed by Haylen, unless she explicitly states that it is. Thank you for your cooperation.

---

VOTE COUNT THAT IS NOT ENDORSED BY HAYLEN, THE MOD

Fuzzyman: Scien, Riceballtail
Scien: ZazieR
Maemuki: Wulfy
Riceballtail: ODDin, Farside22, ElectricBadger, Fuzzyman

Not Voting: Maemuki, Canada

[Fuzzyman]

EBWOP: Hewitt and Nikanor aren't voting.

[Fuzzyman]

This is a big advancement. Thanks muchly.

Scien, why am I the best info lynch? I'm not opposed to going down for the team, but it'd be nice to know why.

[Fuzzyman]

Hi, CSL. Read like the wind.

[Fuzzyman]

I think the post means that she would vote for anybody as an alternative to not lynching, but don't take my word for it.

Response to hewitt is almost done.

[Fuzzyman]

But then Fuzzyman started posting. And by God I'm almost completely baffled at his choice of words, what order he decides to put them in, etc. Everything he says just feels so off-color and not anything resembling pro-town. Here’s some posts of his that don’t sit right with me at all for various reasons.

This paragraph tells me that your gut doesn't like me.

First he starts the game by posting questions and comments that are not even close to being informative.

You're using 'informative' as a synonym for 'helpful', I assume.

Why does it seem that everybody is justifying everything with, "It doesn't matter since you were nowhere close to lynch"? A vote is a signifier of intent to lynch.

And everybody who did is slightly scummier for it.

I agree with ODDin that the Farside/Scien skirmish was a lot about nothing. Nikanor has my empathy for being attacked for lurking.

I think that I was answering something. Let me check.

...

Yep. ElectricBadger post 93.

What would you have done in farside's shoes?

I was criticizing YankCane's criticism of Farside's criticism of Scien. Is that so unhelpful?

(Fuzzyman) Joins with Nik in blowing a vote out of proportion

Where? Farside's vote? When I said the argument was a lot about nothing, I meant it referring to # of pages, words, etc., not the severity of the accusations, which was indeed little.

playing up the victim card

Only so far as my post could be considered buddying with Nikanor. Having empathy isn't a plea for sympathy.

excuses his own silence at the same time

I've not dismissed any shots at my inactivity. What are you talking about?

attempts to stifle a townie's only weapon

I have no interest in this; I only want for it to be used wisely.

and excuses mislynching on principle.

No, I said that my principle dictated that one should only vote for those whom they would be comfortable lynching.

I defend myself. Townies defending themselves is helpful because it attempts to keep the town from killing the one person that the defender knows is innocent.

FoS are, as a whole, entirely pointless.

Yeah. No intention to lynch means no pressure. Asking questions is better.

Is there anybody out there that disagrees with this?

Okay why would you go out and ask if anybody disagrees with that statement? That doesn’t even make sense to me it’s not even relevant to the game it’s a theory argument and a complete distraction. I don’t understand why any town player would try to start that type of argument.

I feel it had maintained relevance, at least after a post you left out questioned why he had used one on page 5.

unvote; Vote Fuzzyman

I haven't been satisfied with your additions to discussion.

Satisfied with Yami's?

What’s with the deflection? Not only does Fuzzyman not answer the question but he goes and deflects it onto a player who can’t really defend themselves because clearly they’re lurking.

I kind of thought that when Wulfy said this he was meaning "not adding to discussion" as the same thing as "lurking".

I feel that the Scien point I brought up in 168 was the most important one that you haven't answered. That's why I mentioned it. And to be quite honest, I feel somewhat inclined to go ahead and vote you if you don't care to do so.

So you’re going to vote someone for not answering your question? That is not a valid reason to vote somebody at all.

Why not?

Arg. It's starting to seem like I'm not allowed to agree with others, lest I be accused of buddying. It happens every game. I guess that I'm not allowed to use the same excuse for my inactivity that others are using, that others are doing it worse, or that'll be buddying too.

I think that there was a consistent tendecy in farside during her debate with Scien to answer only parts of things directed at her. Instances of this include her only responding to the last paragraph of post 139, and picking just the last two sentences of 146 to give immediate response to.

When you acknowledge that someone has made comments regarding you, which farside does when she responds to at least a portion of a post, but only respond to parts of it, trying to keep attention away from the others, it is scummy.

I bet that since I'm leading in votes right now, this'll be an OMGUS, too.

Vote: farside22

That is SUCH an appeal to emotion it’s absolutely ridiculous. “I’m not allowed to agree with others, lest I be accused of buddying. It happens every game. I guess that I’m not allowed to use the same excuse for my inactivity that others are using”. I hopefully don’t even have to explain how gross of an appeal to emotion that is.

Unfortunately, you do.

Or maybe it can be more buddying with ODDin, because he's incidentally voting for her too.

No town person would say shit like this. It’s beating somebody else to an argument that they would have against you and it’s WAY too over-defensive. Defending yourself from possibly forthcoming attacks is not something a town player does. It’s what scum does to cover their bases.

If you'd prefer that I wait for things to come up, I can do that. I don't exactly see the point, though.

If you claim that I'm going AtE, what emotion is it I'm appealing to?

…Joking right?

No.

Then allow me to expand that question to everybody:

Who is your deadline vote?

NO town player would ask that question.

The question would be “Who is your deadline vote and why?”

The whole purpose of my asking is to try and use our lynch before it gets taken away by the deadline. Furthermore, I think it is to be expected that people say why when they answer, whether or not I ask it specifically. I'd inquire about the reasons for their choice if they didn't.

[Fuzzyman]

Who is your deadline vote?

Anybody to impede a no-lynch. Seriously.

I like the fact that you think that hewitt is scummy, but you're still voting for me. Why is that, Wulfy?

@ Riceball, even if you don't want to lynch a Mason/Monk, you want to out them. They're power-roles. If I can avoid power-role outing, I'm happy.

I still want you to post more.

And I hate myself a little more because hewitt's argument against EB is really good. I also find the RBT argument too contrived and based on theory rather than alignment indicative reasons.

Unvote; Vote EB

I think that the EB jump-on-jump-off argument is good too, but the fact remains, we are some fourteen hours off of a deadline and the only people that have a shot at getting lynched are myself and Rice. Take your pick.

(Rice is at L-1, by the way. Just for anybody that didn't notice.)

[Fuzzyman]

You wanna try and kill EB in this time?