Open 177 (Monks and Masons) - Game Over.

[farside22]

EB: You're right, I forgot that a no-lynch could be forced by town. However, it doesn't change the fact that a 1v1v1 is not optimal for scum on either side to be in. Thus, it makes more sense for both scum teams to try and kill each other overnight than for one of them to try and hit a townie.

But then scum needs to worry about survivor a lynch on this day. What is the better chance of winning for scum? Ask yourself that then come back to me.

[farside22]

Well, duh! Of course the mafia wins if they avoid a lynch today and one of them doesn't die overnight. But how likely is either one of those scenarios going to be?

All you (oh I mean the mafia) need to do is mislead the wolf. I thought Ben was doing that but now I just think wolf since SK's post on who is scum was was so anti-town I would set him aside after the game to explain how to do a better scum list if he was town.


As for the second part:
In my view either Ben or hewitt is wolf. So the mafia has a 50/50 shot of getting it right vs the wolf who lynching me
If hewitt he needs to decide between Ben/Nik or SK/EB. Or if scum is both Ben and Nik then hewitt will kill a mafia no matter what (I don't see SK not being mafia at this point though)
If the wolf is ben he knows that after my lynch that Nik is scum and has a shot of winning taking him out.

So sure the mafia could do for the 50/50 shot but 10 to 1 says they take out 1 (no I'm not helping the scum on this one) over the other hoping that they don't get killed and win.

[farside22]

How is my scumlist anti-town?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewpoint.php?p=2021301

You know there is 2 to 3 scum in the game and the only person you didn't say neutral to was me right?

Your reading is all neutral with a leaning scum on Ben.

@Ben: I'm looking forward to seeing you eat your words when I flip town.
Of course you're the wolf so painting anyone as scum is better then actually looking at the game as a whole.

[farside22]

Than you're terrible at this game Farside..hopefully, you aren't.

Why do you keep saying 2-3 mafia???How dumb of a statement is that....You don't have any mental illness, do you? I don't want to be rude if thats the case....This is an open setup. There are 2 mafia scum and 2 wolf scum. The 1-2 is whether or not they are mafiamonk scum and wolfmason scum or not....Geeeeeeezzzzzzzzzz

Excuse me:

The Setup

1-2 Mafia Goons
1-2 Werewolves
1-2 Masons (not Mafia)
1-2 Monks (not Werewolves)
4-8 Vanilla Townies

I read this as 1-2 mafia how else do you explain the 4 to 8 vanilla then?
So don't go calling me names if you can't figure the 4-8 VT either

I see it has a possible 1 or 2 mafia, monk, mason, wolf seeing this set up. Not a for sure 2 of each role with only 4 VT's

[farside22]

Alright, here's what I think about everyone, going in alphabetical order.

Benmage

Initially I thought he was scum because of his godawful trap. As I reread him in ISO, however, I got more of a town vibe from him. It not anything I can name specifically, just more of a general gut feeling. His Day Three activities, however, seem indicative to trying to hide the fact that he's the last remaining werewolf. All in all, Benmage is confusing the hell out of me.

I think I'll put him down as neutral (leaning scum) for now.

ElectricBadger

My fellow monk. His lack of willingness to scumhunt on Day 2 is a bit troubling, but I can understand the reasoning behind it (those walls of text are killing me too). I haven't seen anything else that's terribly disturbing, so I'm leaning slightly town on him at the moment.

Farside22

The way Farside continually hounded Scien over the course of the game majorly set off my scumdar, and even more so now that Scien is a confirmed townie. A lot of what I've seen from her has been overreaction to either weak points or null tells. I felt she was very scummy for this alone, but her assault on Benmage today is also critical. She said multiple times she thinks Benmage is a werewolf, yet instead of backing down and searching for other scum, she continued to attack Benmage. This very much feels like an attempt to look productive without actually doing anything. Combined with a playstyle that I think resembles agressive scum, I think it's very likely that Farside is mafia.

Hewitt

Since Hewitt is not the right lynch for today for obvioius reasons, I'm not going to focus him at the moment. My basic opinion on him is possible werewolf due to being a mason, but the way he claimed mason makes me wonder if he is town. Overall: plain neutral.

Nikanor

Nothing wrong about his posts that I can see, didn't get any scumvibes from him. However, if Benmage is the wolf and Farside is Mafioso #1, process of elimination would suggest either EB or Nikanor is Mafioso #2. If Hewitt is the wolf, of course, that changes things. I'll go with just a neutral, leaning town, for Nikanor.

I think Farside has the best chance of being mafia scum, so

Vote: Farside22.

Okay so there was a slight town read on EB. So I will ask again to SK. Who is my scum partner then and why?

[farside22]

I read this as 1-2 mafia how else do you explain the 4 to 8 vanilla then?
So don't go calling me names if you can't figure the 4-8 VT either

I see it has a possible 1 or 2 mafia, monk, mason, wolf seeing this set up. Not a for sure 2 of each role with only 4 VT's

Read better.

There are 2 Mafia 2 Wolf....there may or may not be a wolfmason or a mafiamonk within the 2/2.

Try re confirming with the mod...It should be pretty simple. This is an OPEN setup.

MOD

WHEN this game was made there were 2 Mafia and 2 Wolves, correct? Whether or not the mafia is monk, and the wolf is mason is the only thing in question, COrrect??

what is 8 - 12 then come back with an answer after you tried calling me stupid next time. The setup was supposed to be WIFOM set up with the idea there could be 1 mafia, 1 wolf, 1 monk and 1 mason.
I don't think haylen did this at all and most likely just did 2 of each. However the set up says a possible 8 VT.
Just so you know and can't do math yourself.

[farside22]

Did you see her edit my post....it was all very obvious farside.....

She really should not confirm that and I will have a chat after the game with her about that. This game is based on WIFOM.
But I noticed you ignored the math probablity I just pointed out after saying some very unnecessary comments and I better get an appology after that because what I said is not dumb. It's a game based on WIFOM with the idea there could be 8 VT's
Just because the mod clarified something she should not have doesn't make my statement dumb it clears the air to know for fact that there is 1 wolf and 2 mafia left in the game for sure.

[farside22]

I'm actually going to change my tune here. Based on your recent interactions, I highly doubt that you and Benmage are on the same scumteam. I'm not liking Nikanor's lack of posting atm, but he hasn't said anything that set off my scumdar. Plus, if you two were partners, I wouldn't have expected both of you to go after each other today and stay on each other. Maybe a little early bussing, but not the constant pressuring. That leaves EB. I still haven't seen much to convince me of his scumhood, but he's the only person that makes logical sense. Maybe I need to go back and reread him (oh, the joy of rereading).

Of course, I still think that you're scum, and I'm happy with my vote where it is.

Yeah so in your mind you think maybe I'm bussing my scum buddy then by all means vote Nik....but if your scum with Nik then by all means keep your vote on me.
I've lost my humor at this point.

[farside22]

Did you see her edit my post....it was all very obvious farside.....

She really should not confirm that and I will have a chat after the game with her about that. This game is based on WIFOM.
But I noticed you ignored the math probablity I just pointed out after saying some very unnecessary comments and I better get an appology after that because what I said is not dumb. It's a game based on WIFOM with the idea there could be 8 VT's
Just because the mod clarified something she should not have doesn't make my statement dumb it clears the air to know for fact that there is 1 wolf and 2 mafia left in the game for sure.

Its an Open setup...its suppose to be clear how many anti-town roles there are....Apology from me? or from Hayl?

If it was supposed to be clear it would say
2 mafia
2 wolf
1-2 monk
1-2 mason
4-6 VT

An appology from you for your uncessary comment. Math logic and all it's clear that the mod should not have confirmed 2 mafia or the sent up would not have 4-8 VT as a possiblity.

[farside22]

hmmm looks like the mod did make an error with the set up on that page I just relooked at the open queue and it was supposed to be 2 mafia, 2 monks, 2 mason and 2 monks with 4 VT's
So I was just going off the mod's front page speculation.

As for the statment I'm referring to this one:

Than you're terrible at this game Farside..hopefully, you aren't.

Why do you keep saying 2-3 mafia???

How dumb of a statement is that....You don't have any mental illness, do you? I don't want to be rude if thats the case....

This is an open setup. There are 2 mafia scum and 2 wolf scum. The 1-2 is whether or not they are mafiamonk scum and wolfmason scum or not....Geeeeeeezzzzzzzzzz

It should be obvious I was looking at the front page of the set up not what the queue line had. There was talk in queue as to whether the monks/mason were supposed to be town or not.

[farside22]

This was also the oringal concept of monks and mason's before this game.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6963

[farside22]

I called your statement dumb, not you. I don't mean to personally assault, you farside, the person. So if thats how you read it, or how I worded it. I apologize. But your play, and that statement/assumption on the game setup was awful...appeared really newbish/inexperienced...since you aren't inexperienced my reasoning for your subpar play/statements is because you are scum.

Not really but I'm not going to point to the open games where some of the set up has a bit of WIFOM to give scum a fighting chance.

[farside22]

EB, will you just bus farside already...what do you thinks gonna happen when hew comes back...

Didn't you have a fit once about my not playing to win? And isn't this the second time since that you've tried to convince me to the same when it's convenient for you? I may have been a bit disinterested in the game at times, but I'm hardly going to sink town intentionally.

I'm not really sure what I expect when Hew's slot is replaced (seems unlikely he'll return at this point). But it seems to me since we absolutely have to find mafia that it might be useful to hear from the one player we know isn't one of them.

I'm also trying to figure out your play. Rolling around another scenario in my head, but it still points to Nik as scum, so I like where my vote's at.

You see my problem?
Did you see what I tried to say in regards to the possiblities yet?

Okay here we go.
Say hewitt is the wolf. Then all Ben's lets lynch a monk looks like mafia trying to direct the wolf to a sure win.
Now he's dropped it but still doesnt' want to vote nik and says I'm protecting the monk mafia. How is that? How does he know for sure there is mafia in the monks?
He dosnt' know my alignment. Does he know Nik's alignment. Is it possible that Nik to be scum with Ben trying to direct the wolf for a most assured mafia win?
These are the questions that plague me.
Then I have SK's medicore read on Nik and defending him and I think WTF are you seriously calling what he did scum hunting or even attempting to do anything this game but hide?
Then I start to think Ben wolf trying to leave the VT's open and the wolf makes it harder on the mafia to kill the wolf at this point and assures to the wolf more targets for the mafia to consider.
So basically either way Ben is scum, which scum plagues me. Either way I come to the conclusion that Nik is scum either with Ben or SK.

[farside22]

The 1 green bottle! *hiccup* Vote Count

Farside22 - Nikanor, SaintKerrigan, Benmage
Nikanor - Farside22, ElectricBadger

Not Voting: Hewitt

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Lots of love
Haylxxx

You know, Farside, my "defense" of Nikanor can be boiled down to you asking me questions about my read on Nikanor and me answering them. I haven't been trying to defend him.

You defend nik with all my question was in regards to Nik and his play you defended it instead of saying well maybe I can see that he didn't really do a complete list. You show 2 sign's of scum hunting and one was based on someones obversation. I have yet to see an orginal idea that came from Nik that wasn't from someone else. The fact you fail to see that and defend you're read on him just seems to me either not paying attention (maybe but doubtful) or scum partner trying to defend and protect his buddy's poor responses.

[farside22]

First here is the only thing you said about Nik in your write up:

Nikanor

Nothing wrong about his posts that I can see, didn't get any scumvibes from him. However, if Benmage is the wolf and Farside is Mafioso #1, process of elimination would suggest either EB or Nikanor is Mafioso #2. If Hewitt is the wolf, of course, that changes things. I'll go with just a neutral, leaning town, for Nikanor.

How vauge is this. I question you further about your vague reading

farside22 wrote:
@SK: What has Nik done that you would call scum hunting?

He did actually have some points against ODDin on Day 2.

Defends nik's point on Oddin case which if you look you see where Nik votes for oddin and blantant following.

farside22 wrote:
Oddin was town his analysis was nothing on anyone else

Just because he was wrong doesn't mean he wasn't trying.

This is defending Nik's analysis in a nutshell.


Now lets look at Nik's vote and reason:

Wulfy, what do you think of Fuzzy?

I find RBT's rolefishing scummy only because he first says that he'd like both of the sets of power roles to out themselves, then is instantly satisfied when the masons claim. This makes RBT look like mafia, since the monks are no threat to the mafia. In addition, if RBT or his partner is a mafia monk, RBT wouldn't want the monks to claim, since it would make them a prime target for the wolves.

Vote: riceballtail.

I think this is our last day. Let's get those votes hopping, people.

Something that was said by others before him.

His list:

OKAY!
I'm caught up.
I'm also glad to see I'm in such demand.
Also, for the record, I'd like to say that I liked Benmage better when he was forced to post in Shakespearean.

Ignores everything says I'm not paying attention and blows it off.

Nice how are you not scum again and what have you done that is town?
Also why is it you completely ignore oddin or even scum huntting till someone calls you out or it's close to day end?

Wow.
Huge misrepresentation.
If I'm not mistaken, he's been responding exclusively to what you've been saying for these last few pages. He hasn't been scumhunting, either, but that's beside the point.

That's just one thing in particular I noticed and pulled; I'll be looking at things more in-depth on Monday.
Here is my pre-analysis scumlist:

(DISCLAIMER: This list most likely contains piggy-backing on the ideas of people I find pro-town. Take it as you will. This list will probably be changing come Monday, but at least it gives y'all something to look at in the meantime).

Town:
Maemuki
Benmage
hewitt
Scien

Scum:
ElectricBadger
farside
xofelf
ODDin

Note that there is no neutral category in this list. This is because this list represents my predictions on alignments, which are based off of my reads, but are not my reads themselves.

So far before this post he was defending oddin and the only person he comment on is me in this post. But no reason why anyone is town or scum stated here.
Note: Maemuki was the wolf so his town list completely off at this point.

Finally this post:

I agree with Scien and EB that SK's hesitation is a nulltell.
Benmage, you didn't even give SK time to think about your motivation, so I don't see how you're able to say that it would have been obvious to SK that he should confirm the claim.
Anyway, I really don't see a pro-town motivation behind ODDin calling SK scummy while trying to ignore the scumminess because Benmage's tactic was 'dishonourable.' Seems like mafia searching for wolves to me. This makes even more sense with ODDin's recent attempts to lynch the mason who he thinks may be a wolf.

Vote: ODDin.

Again following someone else's logic and nothing on his own here see above for SK's comment on Nik's about his case on Oddin.

Quote tag fixed ~ Hayl

[farside22]

@ Farside:

This is defending Nik's analysis in a nutshell.

No, it's more like me pointing out that just because Nikanor was wrong doesn't mean that he wasn't trying.

You also quoted an incomplete scumlist (Nikanor's, I mean). He said "this is my

pre-analysis

scumlist. He gave his reasons in a later post.

@ Nikanor: What is the meaning of the V/LA in your sig? Is this why you haven't been posting as much, or is there another reason?

@ Mod: What's going on regarding Hewitt?

Do you even see how you are defending the man?

1. You say he had a case on Oddin which I just showed he was blantantly following
2. His scum list didn't change for 1 to the other the second time he did a scum list was a day later (the next day change) after Ben asked everyone for a scum list.

[farside22]

Nachomamma88 replaces Hewitt, affective immediately

Get to today. See everyone point fingers. Tell us if you're the wolf and if you are not and are town we all now that Benmage is the wolf then.
Read the interaction between SK and Nik.
That is all.

[farside22]

Get to today. See everyone point fingers. Tell us if you're the wolf and if you are not and are town we all now that Benmage is the wolf then.

Dear Ben,

I see obvious mafia with Nik. It's either you or hewitt replacement that is wolf and guess what buddy if the wolf is killed by the mafia and the wolf kills the correct target the town has a better chance to win.

But you don't ever want to answer EB's question about the wolf. You ignored the obvious defense from SK on Nik and I wonder if you have a clue you (the wolf) should try to lynch the mafia instead of trying to NK at this point.
It would really be a help to the town.
Thanks!

Sincerely,
farside

[farside22]

Ugh seriously how does someone that follows people and say next to nothing about players get a town read.

If Nik is not mafia I would be shocked at this point. Who ever is the last 2 town people can't say I didn't try to show the partnership between SK and Nik.
Or even make people wonder about ben's motives when it came to the Monks.
As I said before why would ben assume that mafia is for sure a Monk.
Is he trying to buss his scum partner? Is he trying to save his scum partner or is he the wolf himself?
I still think SK is defending Nik a bit too much.
Sure maybe I attacked people the wrong way or thought too much about who is scum but that people is called scum hunting.

unvote:
vote: farside

Honestly I don't care what the new guy has to say. He's not mafia for sure and I am town.

[farside22]

???

You're town and you self-hammered?!?! Dammit, Farside!

No one listens so why hold off any further? All that was left was listening to someone be completely off about their read again.

[farside22]

If Nik is not the wolf I seriously would look into his play harder wolf.
If Ben is not the wolf again look at how he tried to pushed the monks so hard and ask yourself how does he know there is mafia in the monks

I hope this helps the wolf find mafia tonight. God knows this town can't do it.

[farside22]

I called SK and Nik scum. What did I say about Ben.
3 scum all on my wagon and Ben kills EB. Pfft

[farside22]

@ Farside: You did a nice job individually, managing to pin down Nik and I as a scumteam. Fortunately for us, no one (except maybe EB) believed you.

Yeah Ben wanted nothing more then a monk killed. He just absolutely refused to listen to the logic even when I showed Nik's poor play. It killed me that the mason was saying the exact same thing.
**shakes head*
I can't believe 2 people (1 who wants to see mafia dead) and 1 protown player calls Nik town based on so little comments and obvious fallowing.
Makes me want to play this game without trying next time just so I can be called a townie.

[farside22]

I called SK and Nik scum. What did I say about Ben.
3 scum all on my wagon and Ben kills EB. Pfft

I seriously can't believe Ben didn't kill Nikanor. I mean, when there's only two unconfirmeds left and you're one of them (plus you're the wolf), that automatically means the other one is mafia. That logic actually led me to believe that I'd made the wrong decision about killing Benmage.

Benmage, did you overlook this fact, or was there another reason for killing EB that somehow superseded it?

^ this too. I didn't get Ben's kill choice either. Nik was 100% garenteed mafia after I flipped town.
I completely forgot this point. I was just happy to be right about my last day scum calls on people.

[farside22]

Maybe that was an elaborate attempt to bus each other. To muddle the town's connections, to write huge walls of text so they could ride a easy victory.

Heh, she would have to trust me a lot on that... Being semi-new, she would have no way to know if I would self-destruct under that kind of pressure.

If I could pull that off as scum that would be awesome. But unfortunately I have to agree with Farside a bit and say that I would probably be a little more 'unsure' of myself and muddle about like a 'bad non-aggressive' scum would.

Yeah I get a bit heated and jumped on something I felt was really a weak attempt to scum hunt but voting RVS. It just struck me as scummy.
Side note it wasn't till late day 2 when you talked about the scum/MM ratio that I realized you were more likely town then scum and was bummed

[farside22]

Are the Monks, Masons, Mafia and Werewolves happy for me to post their Quicktopics?

No problem!


@ Farside, can I mod Open 200? *-*

Only if you are supposed to mod at that time.

[farside22]

And yes I do believe in walls of text. You need proof to show you have a valid case or no one should be listening to you.

[farside22]

And yes I do believe in walls of text. You need proof to show you have a valid case or no one should be listening to you.

Disagreed. Lazy people (like myself) will most likely skip them. What's the point, then?

*points at post 1299*

I'm working on the long post with making sure I post the short story at the bottom for the lazy readers.

[farside22]

You were right. But you selfhammered as town...

Either the replacement was going to go thru a long speach and hammer based on misguided reasoning or I hammer as town hope that I leave mafia with wondering if Ben or the new guy was wolf and hope my instict about the wolf would go for the garenteed killed on Nik.
Also some of my comments about Ben being scum with Nik could have help SK but it should have been No lynch had Ben correctly killed Nik last night.

[farside22]

sarcasm?

...ok that was some obvious sarcasm, Benmage. Are you being sarcastic as well?

Farside...please? *-* [yes I'll keep on spamming this until you answer]

We will see. I don't want to promise something and then forget later. I'm not even sure who if anyone will flake before your turn comes up.

[farside22]

Mafia QT
I thought for sure that town had won this game (which was slightly depressing, seeing how horrendous a job town had done), but I guess it came down to whether Ben suspected SK or EB more, and luckily for us, he chose wrong.
Good game, and hopefully I won't lurk as much in the future. @_@

Yay good call by far making WIFOM for the mafia on who to kill. Too bad ben didn't see the obvious defending from SK on Nik to sent in an SK kill instead.

[farside22]

I, on the other side, prefer replacing. It's more fun~

(farside, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease? )

stop asking.