Open 186; Jungle Republic (Game Over)

[Jazzmyn]

Hello, all

As the game moderator mentioned, I am replacing in. I should be able to read the whole game thread tonight.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I've completed my first read-through and taken notes, but I haven't yet been able to do iso reads or analyze things in any depth. Tomorrow (Thursday, the 24th) is effectively "Christmas Day" here for my family because my daughter is leaving tomorrow night to go to Buffalo, NY where she will be staying at a hotel near the airport to catch a flight to Florida on Christmas morning, as she is departing from Florida on a Caribbean cruise from Boxing Day through January 2. So, I'm having everyone here tomorrow instead of on Christmas Day. Thus, it is unlikely that I will be able to do my analysis and post substantive thoughts until at least tomorrow night after dinner and presents and adult beverages and such. Depending on how late things go tomorrow night (and depending on how much alcohol is consumed), it may be Friday (the 25th) before I get to it.

I am on vacation until January 4 in any event, so I have lots of free time, and I will definitely read through the game again and post my reads and such no later than Friday.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Having read through the entire game thread twice now, here are my scum reads:

Dana/Ginz
Flav/Saber
curiouskarmadog
Lowell
Hewitt
Scott

I freely admit that I am having a hard time figuring out players in this game, given that I've never played in a game with this setup before, but those are my top choices for scum at the moment, based on my reading of the thread. All are subject to change if they have anything to say in defence of themselves any time soon.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

That's the short version, obviously. I can post the long version if requested and if necessary, but sometimes I think the short version is better, particularly in a game with so many scum. Just saying.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

And yes, Jazz, please post the longer version.

Glad you asked. I was actually working on a longer version from my game notes last night and intended to post it today anyway, because when I posted last night, it was around 3 a.m. my time and I wasn't up to going through all of it then.

Dana/Ginz: highly suspicious for extreme lurking, on the part of both the original player and the replacement. Ginz made only 5 posts during his tenure in the game, and danakillsu has made only 3 posts since replacing in on Dec. 17 (none of any substance) and has posted nothing at all since Dec. 18. That's a grand total of 8 posts for both players in this slot.
I replace into games quite frequently. I do so because I like playing the game and I don't always want to wait around for a new game to start. Plus, I like having several pages to read and a whole bunch of stuff to analyze. It does not make any sense to me whatsoever to volunteer to replace into an ongoing game, only to lurk up a storm like this. Thus, I am suspicious that the replacement got a scum role and is trying to fly under the radar like the original player did, instead of playing the game in a pro-town fashion. So, this isn't a "lurker lynch" that I'm advocating but a "replacement lurker" lynch because I think it's more suspicious than an original lurker.


Flava/saber: highly suspicious for outlandishly scummy behaviour on the part of the original player (saber), examples of which are too numerous to list. Flava's in a tough position, I realize, but I cannot overlook his predecessor's conduct just because he got banned from the site. I'm afraid that I will never be comfortable with saber's slot in this game and will never be confident enough of his alignment without seeing his flip. I know it sucks for the replacement - and huge respect to Flava for replacing such a scummy player, it's tough to do and good on you for volunteering - but that's how I feel. Then there are Flava's posts, of course, which haven't impressed me. Saying that CKD and hewitt are "obvtown" when he was "about page 5" was just ridiculous, and saying that hewitt was "actively scumhunting" is not borne out by the facts. He also said he would have modkilled his predecessor - nice distancing. Then he says that he got up to around page 9, but he was "just not into the read" which is pretty weak. After replacing into a game, one is supposed to be "into the read" - that's why one replaces into a game, no? He then made a substantive post at 328, but really it was mostly a bunch of useless questions, light on analysis, and called out players for doing things that his predecessor had done much more egregiously.

curiouskarmadog: suspicious for his early vote on the saber wagon, then backing off when bigmc voted saber to L-2, claiming that it was L-1 (which it wasn't) and using that misrep as an excuse to unvote; followed by defending saber before eventually (not until 282) going off on saber, but that wasn't until

after

saber was banned and in that post CKD's talk about saber's stupid "bet" and about saber talking about other games comes far too late, and it's as though he's pretending to have just noticed those things for the first time. His righteous indignation in that post just seems fakedy fake fake to me. Then there's his subsequent non-stop defence of the saber slot. None of this gives me a warm fuzzy feeling about CKD. That said, he's right about Lowell's turnaround in Lowell's 296, but still the 'outrage' seems fake. Then there's his post 300 directed to Lynx, which ends with him asking Lynx's views on bigmc (looks like deflecting). Then there's his 305 in which he asks Flava if he was in "our" shoes, whether he would be for or against saber’s lynch. I've read on this site that saying that you would lynch your predecessor is a scum-tell, and this looks to me like a set-up question among scum. Then, after having nothing to say for a while, CKD pops in to say that nothing much is going on but again defends saber's slot, saying, "why not vote someone who is actually scummy and not just an ass". Well, saber sure looked scummy to me, so I don't know why CKD is so darned sure that he was just an 'ass'; and then there's his claim to 99% certainty as to bigmc's alignment as scum. As I read the game setup, this was a Day 1 start, so this strikes me as too over-confident by half for a townie.

Lowell: suspicious for his weird turnaround on saber, as pointed out by others, and for his low content level, only 10 posts all game. Lurker McLowellLurkerson.

Hewitt: suspicious for his early over-defensiveness, for his silly posts supporting CKD's erroneous claim that saber was at L-1 when he was actually at L-2, for his odd interaction with saber around the 149 mark, and then his abrupt turnaround to put saber at L-1 himself, and his subsequent wishy washy interaction with saber after that. Possible scum slip in his post 239 when he says "if saber flips scum" instead of "if saber flips town". Then there is the fact that after putting saber at L-1, which implicitly means that you want someone to hammer the player that you've put at L-1, hewitt expressly says that he doesn't want Budja to hammer saber when Budja indicated a willingness to do so. If hewitt was town and genuinely believed in his L-1 vote, why would he object to Budja hammering? Makes no sense to me. Then he starts waffling on saber again after that. Too much wishy-washiness for my liking.

Scott: suspicious for suggesting a lurker lynch on page 3, and for being pretty lurktastic himself subsequently, with only 14 posts up to Dec 16 and then nothing until Dec 21 when he says he will catch up (he hasn't) and nothing since. Mostly a gut read on this one.

Also, what do you think of Budja replacing out?

I don't know anything about the reasons for him doing so, but I assume that it is due to personal circumstances, so I hope that things are okay. Beyond that, I'm just glad to replace in.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

But you haven't even told us who you want lynched and why.

See above.

And if you didn't notice, my vote is still where my predecessor left it, which should tell you pretty clearly who I want lynched. I would move it to one of a few other players if necessary as the deadline approaches, but it's still where I think it is best placed for now.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I'd like for every player who is not voting either of these two, to specify whether they are opposed or supportive of the lynching of both of these candidates. If you are voting either of these two, then please make evident if you are for or against the lynch of the other one.

I didn't get a strong scum read from bigmc initially. I re-read the game thread several times and still didn't get a strong scum read from him. The parts where I found him suspicious were the part where he wasn't paying attention to the vote count while voting saber early on, and the part where he voted for MR because MR asked to be replaced and bigmc claimed that that was a scum tell and he didn't even want to wait for a replacement to come in. He claimed that he thought that was a universally accepted scumtell etc., but when it garnered some suspicion towards him, he backed off, saying that he thought that's how it was but since he was wrong, he would unvote.

Those things were bugging me, so I went and read some of bigmc's completed games.

Turns out, he knows full well that newb townies sometimes ask to be replaced when they feel overwhelmed, and he knew that because as scum in a previous game, he helped to get a townie lynched on Day 1 for, in part, asking to replace out of a game, and argued that replacing out was indicative of the townie being scum.

So, his story about why he was voting for MR for asking to be replaced, and his claim to "ignorance" of townies asking to be replaced is bogus.

Unvote
Vote: bigmc

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

The mod announces that the townie has asked for replacement on page 26, post 656.
One of bigmc's scum partners posts "Le Sigh" in post 657.
Bigmc posts at 658 saying, "I'm not sure if this is supposed to indicate disappointment, but I think this is the final nail in the coffin. I don't see any way GD is not scum."
Scumpartner posts at 659: "I hate replacements in general. Doubly so when its someone who I am more than reasonably certain is scum."
Another townie posts at 666: "Word. Let's hang him now so we don't have to deal with a slimy replacement."
Bigmc responds in 667: "I agree, and I don't really think the replacement is going to have a very good time trying to explain GD's actions. After replacing out while still active on the site in general I don't see any reason to believe he's pro-town."
And it goes on from there, over the next several pages.

(Later, the player who was replacing out claimed a power role and all of the townies on the wagon and bigmc's scumbuddies unvote him, but bigmc never did, just kept saying he didn't believe the claim, etc. The townie ended up not replacing out and getting lynched anyway, but the point here is that bigmc knew perfectly well that the player was a townie and that he requested replacement due to being overwhelmed, not due to being scum, so his claims to the contrary in this game are bogus.)

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

@ Mod: danakillsu hasn't posted for 12 days and Scott hasn't posted for 9 days. Can you please prod or replace them?

Regards,
Jazz

Replacements are being located. Night will not end without them.

[/size]

[Jazzmyn]

going to reread....also, going to see who was against MC lynch early on, changed his tune later when it was obvious he was going down.....

Paradox might qualify there. Dank might as well. But my first read of this back and forth between dank and Flava has me leaning towards believing dank. Flava seems to be selective in his choices of which of dank's posts to highlight and comment upon, and saber/Flava still seems scummy to me.

Hewitt also needs looking at because he was posting elsewhere on the site on the 29th and 30th but not in this thread despite the deadline, and instead of chiming in and instead of ensuring that we didn't end up with a no-lynch, he left a useless vote in place rather than comment on or join a wagon that would ensure a lynch.

The Scott slot also needs looking at because Scott was defending saber pretty hard, and yet never made a comment about bigmc anywhere that I can see, and left his vote on Sanhora/MR.

The danakillsu's slot also needs looking at because that slot has been absolutely, entirely, 100% utterly and completely useless all game, which might favour scum hiding there.

I own this game. Without me this town is nowhere.

Such arrogance. And misplaced arrogance at that. You're still scummy despite being on the bigmc wagon.


Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

3) @all- This post is a bit of deja vu for me, but.... Anyone want to try a SEER

hypoclaim

? We all say who we investigated (fake or real), so if the seer gets NKed we at least get a little info. My feeling is this would help us more than the werewolves and could be of benefit later on (ESP since the person "cleared" could as easily end up being mafia and killed off by werewolves anyway)

I don't see any purpose in this except to try to help the remaining Werewolf to figure out who the Seer is. As I read the opening posts by the game mod, the Seer gets a result of only "Werewolf" or "Not Werewolf" and we have already lynched one Werewolf, so if the Seer gets a positive result on the remaining Werewolf, he or she can simply claim and we lynch the second Werewolf. There is no pro-town reason to want to try to narrow the field for the remaining Werewolf, and I can't think of any reason why you would want to do so unless it is you.

Vote: Lowell

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

It's a marginal advantage, I admit. But if the seer is NKed why not at least get an innocent (non-werewolf) while we can. With this many people left, maybe one person accidently reveals themselves as non-seer by "clearing" the werewolf? Not a big deal.

Vanilla townies don't need to be cleared and if the Seer gets a "Not Werewolf" result, that doesn't make the investigated player "innocent" as the player could still be Mafia. So, your suggestion is ludicrous and only helps scum.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Day 2 just started, AGAIN, why are we in such a hurry to lynch?....lowell is at -3...lets so things up a bit

He has three votes on him, no big deal. Don't know why you're so nannyish about it. He suggested a plan that serves no useful purpose for town and which, if adopted, would only help the last Werewolf to identify our one and only power role. Thus, my vote.

I don't see how the fake seer claim is necessarily a bad idea though. If we all create a result, I don't see how that gives the wolves any advantage as they would have to look through multiple results with no easy pick which one is the real one. It does provide very little at this time though.

It's a bad idea because:
1) The Seer only gets a "Werewolf" or "Not Werewolf" result
2) This means that both Town and Mafia come up as "Not Werewolf"
3) This means that a "Not Werewolf" result is too ambiguous to be helpful at this time
4) If the Seer had a useful result (i.e. "Werewolf") he could just claim and we would lynch the last Werewolf, without any risk to the Seer
5) There is only one player who benefits from knowing who the Seer is, and that is the last Werewolf.

That said, I agree that Lowell is not likely a Werewolf, so perhaps his bad suggestion is just poor play, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if he turns out to be Mafia, who mistakenly thought that the Seer could also out the Mafia and not just the Wolves.

I'll unvote him if/when I get a better feel for who the last Werewolf is, but lynching a Mafia would be a good fallback position.

And the silent players need to speak up soonish.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

@jazz- you're still wrong about this. Your argument against hypoclaim now is that "not werewolf" isn't the same as innocent? Yeah, no kidding. So what? Most, nearly all, players will be "cleared" in this process. If one person accidentally "clears" the last werewolf in this process, it's not a huge deal. You drastically overestimate the danger of revealing the seer. It won't affect the game mechanics of scumhunting at all. Clearly no one wants to do it so this is largely moot, but I at least want to defend my mafia theory rep.

Way to misrepresent my posts. Let me type this more slowly for you. The Seer, presumably, has a result from N1. If that result was "Werewolf" then the Seer would simply claim today, we would promptly lynch the last Werewolf, and the Seer's investigative work would be done. There would be no risk in the Seer doing so because he is no threat to the Mafia. Since no claim has been made, then it seems pretty apparent that the Seer did not get a Werewolf result last night. Therefore, there is no benefit to the town in hypoclaiming today about the Seer's result from last night: the town will not know which of the multiple "not Werewolf" claims comes from the Seer today, so there is nothing useful that we can do with the information today. Add to that the risk that carrying out a hypoclaim means that if we do not hit the last Werewolf today, then the remaining Werewolf gets a narrower field to try to take out the Seer tonight, thus preventing us from obtaining any result from the Seer tomorrow if he hits the last Werewolf tonight. In sum, therefore, there is no benefit to the town for a hypoclaim today; it runs the risk of having the Seer narrowed down for the remaining Werewolf; and the only player who would benefit from it is the last Werewolf. Thus, it's a bad idea.

Jazz, when you entered the game you said I was one of your picks for scum.

You still are.

Two post later from you, you state Big was scummy and vote, in the post you state why you think big was scum, but given that you had 3-4 other’s on your scum list, why did you meta Big?

1) I meta just about everybody in my games eventually.
2) Did you not actually read my posts for comprehension? I set out quite clearly why I went looking for meta on bigmc. Here:

The parts where I found him suspicious were the part where he wasn't paying attention to the vote count while voting saber early on, and the part where he voted for MR because MR asked to be replaced and bigmc claimed that that was a scum tell and he didn't even want to wait for a replacement to come in. He claimed that he thought that was a universally accepted scumtell etc., but when it garnered some suspicion towards him, he backed off, saying that he thought that's how it was but since he was wrong, he would unvote.

Those things were bugging me, so I went and read some of bigmc's completed games.

Those are things that can be specifically sought out in previous games, particularly the latter as he claimed ignorance of townies replacing out etc., so I went reading through his previous games to see his town play and his scum play, looking to see if there was anything in those games to indicate whether he had done something similar before. In the midst of that 60+ page game, I found evidence that what he claimed in this game was a lie. Thus, he had to be scum of one variety or the other.

How did you manage to miss that?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I went out last night right after work and didn't get home until after midnight, and then tonight I picked my daughter up after work and she's home for the night, so I will catch up on the latest and post tomorrow night (this site is blocked at my office).

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Ok caught up,

After reading yesterday, Lynx, Jazz and dank look scummy…..

What is it that you find scummy about me, CKD?

so I missed that, and thus why it didnt make sense to me, thus why I asked.

This indicates that you are not really reading the game, but instead just skimming and trying to look like you're scumhunting when you really aren't.

so I am still one of scum suspects...why? same reason as when you first entered the game or have your reasons changed at all?

Primarily the same reasons, with some additions, some deletions, and some changes. Speaking of which, I have a few questions for you.
Who do you think is the last Werewolf? Why?
Who do you think is most likely to be a member of the Mafia, and why?
Why is it that you have had nothing at all to say to or about Paradox for the entire game except for the single word, "noted"?
Why is it that you have had nothing at all to say to or about the Ginz/dana/havinfitz slot for the entire game (with the sole exception of a single post directed to Ginz early on in which you were defending saber)?

In your opinion should I be cleared (for a werewolf)for the same reason you are in Lynx eyes?

I think it is very unlikely that you are a Werewolf because I doubt that a Werewolf would push the bigmc wagon like you did if you were his partner.

speaking of comprehension, so that I completely understand.

you metaed Big, because of the reasons you stated...did you feel those actions were scummy..thus why you metaed?

Again, do you not read? I have already said that I did not initially get a strong scum read on bigmc but that I found some of his actions suspicious and they were bugging me, so I meta'd him. See my 368 and my 424.

I definitely think there are a few scum within Lowell-Paradoxombie-Dank-Lynx.

I'm going to have to re-read them all again and do some more meta'ing to see which are stronger candidates than the others, I think. I keep waffling a bit in my reads on the latter three. They were all (relatively) slow to come to the bigmc wagon after I pointed out clear evidence of him lying, thus being scum, but there's no reason for Mafia to be slow about it, since Mafia would have known that bigmc wasn't one of theirs, so I'm still trying to decide whether that makes one of them the remaining Werewolf or if the Werewolf is someone who avoided the wagon entirely.

Since the day would have ended with a no-lynch if we didn't get 7 votes on bigmc, and since there are only two Werewolves, I'm inclined to think that the last Werewolf stayed off the wagon entirely. I.e.: that means Hewitt, Fitz (slot) or Percy (slot).

Hewitt hasn't posted for 10 days and the other two slots have been extreme lurker slots, so I think that one of them could have easily decided to just stay off the wagon and make an excuse for it later. That said, I don't know which one of the three is the most likely candidate, but I think this needs some serious consideration by all players.

@Mod: please prod Hewitt

PREVIEW EDIT: Hewitt disappeared from this game thread on December 28, just before the deadline, but he has been posting in other games on the site virtually every day since then.

Unvote.
Vote: Hewitt

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Especially Hewitt if it is true that he was posting on the site while the deadline was so close.

It's easy to check. Click on the "profile" button below one of Hewitt's posts and it takes you to a link showing all of his posts.

His last post in this game was on Dec. 28. Since then, he posted 33 posts in other games - but not a single one in this game - on Dec 29, 30, 31, Jan 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8.

So, he can't even claim not to have been around on the day of the deadline here (Dec 30) as he clearly was since he was posting in other games.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Jazz, What actions of bigmc did you find suspicious....perhaps I am not asking the question correctly... I am trying to figure out why you metaed him...maybe provide some posts #s for me.

I have already answered this and I have already provided post numbers with links to them. Why do you keep asking the same question and then ignore the answer? Here they are again:

My post 368

Which was cited for you in

My post 424

Two post later from you, you state Big was scummy and vote, in the post you state why you think big was scum, but given that you had 3-4 other’s on your scum list, why did you meta Big?

1) I meta just about everybody in my games eventually.
2) Did you not actually read my posts for comprehension? I set out quite clearly why I went looking for meta on bigmc. Here:

The parts where I found him suspicious

were the part where he wasn't paying attention to the vote count while voting saber early on, and the part where he voted for MR because MR asked to be replaced and bigmc claimed that that was a scum tell and he didn't even want to wait for a replacement to come in. He claimed that he thought that was a universally accepted scumtell etc., but when it garnered some suspicion towards him, he backed off, saying that he thought that's how it was but since he was wrong, he would unvote.

Those things were bugging me, so I went and read some of bigmc's completed games.

Those are things that can be specifically sought out in previous games, particularly the latter as he claimed ignorance of townies replacing out etc., so I went reading through his previous games to see his town play and his scum play, looking to see if there was anything in those games to indicate whether he had done something similar before. In the midst of that 60+ page game, I found evidence that what he claimed in this game was a lie. Thus, he had to be scum of one variety or the other.

And

my post 441

in which I answered again and provided post numbers and links.

also, so you think as scum, I would just skim to scumhunt? There is no way possible that I (as town) could have just overlooked something? Just want to make sure that is your stance on that particular topic....(hint: it might come back to bite your ass)

Nice strawman. I didn't say that there is "no possible way" that you could have just overlooked something. But the fact that you keep asking me the same question, and yet you keep missing the answer, despite being provided with post numbers and links, suggests strongly that you are just skimming.

for mafia, think you are of that varity....maybe even lynx (if he isnt the other wolf).something about your play yesterday seems off.

Quite the case, that is.

And I remember another game where you as scum, blamed a lack of posting on RL stuff...

You and I have only been in one game together - Disney Movie Mafia - so I assume you're talking about that game. I was in two games at the time, one as scum and one as town. You can easily check to see that my activity level was the same in both, as my brother was hovering between life and death in an out of town hospital, which impacted on my ability to post, as did his death on Dec. 2. So, I don't know what you're trying to imply with this. Real life exists, and mine is not uncomplicated.

but not just that, your play yesterday is tingling my mafia vibe...why exactly...dont know..

Your scumdar needs recalibration.

I also havent said anything about hewitt

You did, actually, have some interaction with Hewitt.

Have you commented on all the players in the game?

Why yes, I have posted to and/or about every player in the game. I find that it's the most useful way to scumhunt.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

hey jazz, maybe you missed, it..there are like 4 questions in my last post you seemed to completely have missed.

Hey, ckd, maybe you missed it but you keep asking me the same question, which I have already answered multiple times, and yet you keep pretending that I haven't.

There is something seriously scummy happening here.

New top scum list:
Hewitt (werewolf)
CKD (mafia)
Lowell (mafia)

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Prodded, sorry about that.

More tonight.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Having re-read again, my current thoughts on top scum contenders are:
Hewitt/Brocktree (werewolf)
Lowell (mafia)
CKD (mafia)

But Paradoxombie is also a contender for Werewolf.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

We also have a real problem with the Percy/Scott slot because we have had ZERO content from them for more than a

month

now. Percy made only 2 posts with no game related content whatsoever, and before him, Scott was defending Saber, who was scummy as all get out, while also purporting to be suspicious of bigmc without ever voting for him. He disappeared while leaving his vote on Sanhora/MR.

I really think we need a replacement in that spot very soon who will actually participate in the game, or we run a real risk of not only letting scum fly under the radar, but also providing them with an engraved invitation to continue doing so.

I was also looking at some of Paradoxombie's previous games, and he seems to have been more active in other games than he has been here, and he appears to be much more forthcoming when he has been town than he has been here.

So, I could get behind a Paradox/Werewolf lynch if it comes to deadline and the rest of you aren't convinced that Hewitt/Brocktree is the remaining Werewolf, but I still think Hewitt looks good for it.

As for the timing of his posting, I can't discern a particular pattern for Paradoxombie's posts. His posts seem to cover most of the clock spectrum, but I don't know what time zone he's in. From the time stamps on my screen, though (which are EST), his posts seem to be mostly in what would be late evening here, but there are also morning and afternoon posts, and in some games, a ton of middle-of-the-night posts (i.e., what would be 3-4-5 a.m. here)

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

It looks like the only other person suspected right now besides me is Lowell. WTF am I supposed to do?

unvote, vote:Lowell

Lowell's not the only other person suspected besides you; I also suspect Hewitt for the last Werewolf, as I've been saying for ages now.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

If that is the case....are the folks not voting for Para happy to go to a no-lynch rather than pursue Para?

No, I would not be happy with a no-lynch because with 4 scum still alive, we really

have

to lynch.

But Paradoxombie is my second choice for the remaining Werewolf. I think Hewitt/Brocktree is a better choice.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

here, mafiascum is loading impossibly slow...makes for updating a pain....will try to do so this weekend.

Updating

after

the deadline will be, you know, kind of useless for purposes of this day. I strongly suggest that you make the effort to participate meaningfully

before

the deadline hits instead of making lame excuses.

Yes, I still think you're scum (Mafia), and I just want that on the record. Re-reading your posts has made my scumdar so loud that it's off the charts.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

This game is ridiculous. Hewitt hasn't posted this year. Our two most recent replacements...Percy and Brocktree have each posted twice I think and are both way past the point of prodding. Dank hasn't posted in two weeks and Lowell is due a prod as well. This sucks. How can we end the day (potentially with no lynch) when half the town is AWOL.

Agreed. This is ridiculous. We need replacements who will actually play the darned game.

Otherwise I'll stick with Para and I guess we're due for a no-lynch.

I'll switch to Paradox to avoid a no-lynch even though I am more suspicious of Hewitt/Brocktree. We still need one more player for a lynch. Come on, people!

Unvote
Vote: Paradoxombie

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

@All town (scum need not respond)...do you think it is better to try and figure out who the lone remaining werewolf is or to go after mafia (since we have 3x the the odds). And who are your top suspects.

Yeah, it's a different scenario today than it was yesterday because now we have only 8 players left, 4 of whom are scum, and 3 of those 4 are mafia, so that gives the mafia way too much control over the game if we don't lynch one of them today. Therefore, I think that we would be better served by trying to lynch Mafia over the last Werewolf today.

As for top suspects, I'm going to have to review my notes and re-read the thread again with the knowledge that we now have. I suspected CKD as Mafia, as I mentioned several times on previous days, and I was obviously wrong about that (although his play was certainly scummy), so I'm going to have to take a fresh look at things during my re-read before presenting a new top scum list.

But so far I've seen nothing to alleviate my suspicions of Lowell, the Hewitt (Hewitt/Brocktree/Furry) spot, and the Scott (Scott/Percy/Rifka) spot, though. That said, I'll try to check all of my previous biases at the door when I do my next re-read, and I'll try not to be influenced by my own previous accusations and assertions.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

So...yes,

I am the seer

, and I will share my results later today (I'm in a seminar at the moment and I will be offline till this evening UK time).

Awesome. I have to leave for work shortly but look forward to hearing your results tonight when I get home.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I think lowell and RV are the only ones left to say if they are countering or not. Lynx, PD, FF, Jazz have all posted with no counter already. Would like to get this game rolling if they can step up and say something here.

Agreed, and I see that Lowell and Rifka have now also not countered, so I think that's everyone now.

Apathy is deadly

Also agreed, and especially after the extended length of the night phase for night 2, it's easy to become apathetic. However, fitz's claim should put an end to that. Looking forward to his results.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Annnd, nice cross-post, I see.

Thanks, fitz. I thought we were going to have to wait until tomorrow morning (my time) to get your results, but this is much better than waiting!

Vote: Paradoxombie

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Since its a confirmed guilty do people still want me putting up the way to deal with a counter?

I, for one, would find it interesting and useful to know for future games, as this is the first game I've ever played that has both Werewolves and Mafia.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Given this:

Note: Mafia can now speak to each other during the day in their provided topic only for 36 hours after each lynch.

Perhaps we should refrain from saying much at all in the thread until the scumchat time expires.

I don't want to bog down the game, but it seems to me that limiting the information that scum might glean from in-thread discussion by townies is a very good idea.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I'm pretty swamped with work IRL at the moment, with hard deadlines and such, but that should all be resolved by the end of business tomorrow (Friday) so I'll have lots of time over the weekend to go into detail on why the following are my top three choices for Mafia, but for now I thought I should at least post them.

Flava, Lowell, Rifka.

Micro version of reasons: vote analysis, post analysis viz interaction/lack of interaction, wagon convergence, and scummy content. Detail to follow after I get through this week at work.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Uh oh. That sounds like the scum just won.

Sorry that I wasn't able to get here sooner; it's been a hellish week IRL.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

This game does prove the point that games with low activity are much easier to take control of as scum and lead the town to its own demise. If it was very active, it might of been much harder to stave off the lynch of Lowell.

Indeed. I am trying to get people to break away from the "conventional wisdom" on this site that holds that lynching lurkers is taboo, but unfortunately, it's difficult to get people to drop 'conventional wisdoms' even when they are repeatedly proven to be anything but wise. I really think that lynching intentional lurkers needs to be done far more often, regardless of results, so that it cannot be used so effectively by scum. I think that if the "don't lynch lurkers" mindset is changed, then scum will be forced to stop lurking their way to victory.

That said, good game, all. See you in another sometime.

Regards,
Jazz