Open 186; Jungle Republic (Game Over)

[Paradoxombie]

A lot of familiar faces in this game for me.

Hello again, Lynx, Dank, Lowell, Saberwolf, and CKD. Do you guys remember me?

Hey hewitt, you were about to replace into Deathnote LABB correct? Did you read the game before it ended? I just want to know if you have a read of me.

vote: Lowell

since I believe you're the player I played longest ago, though I'm not sure.

[Paradoxombie]

Sorry it took so long for this post.

also Para, dont remember you...have a reminder?

I vaguely remember you mislynching me.

my last two games i single handedly caught scum b2b ftw...you were one of those games budja, so you know I can play if I feel like it.

Yeah and what about your scum play? Is it that "good" too?

Unvote,Vote:Saberwolf

You certainly are threatening to self-hammer if you reference a game where you did it already in 18 posts after a wagon starts on you. If you actually consider doing it you're either scum or a huge liability for the town.

LOL, so you put me one vote closer to see if I'll do it? That's anti-town and scummy of you right there.

I don't see how it could be possibly worse than your "threat" to do it.

I don't really care if you think I'm sitting on the sidelines and I've already answered why I'm not voting yet. But I'll restate it since you apparently missed it, I don't vote until I think I've found scum. Very simple.

Sounds like you're just gonna wait for someone else to make a case/bandwagon for you to hop on. Just like you'd wait for someone else to get us out of RVS.


I agree with Bigmc, I think saber's reads are pretty weak. Lynx doesn't look remotely suspicious to me for his post, and the memorable raindrops thing basically calls itself. After all this posting he looks all bark and no bite.

Plus I feel like wanting to lynch saber isn't an antitown sentiment. Quite the opposite. There's a reason saber says his play avoids NKs. Because it is better for scum than town.

unvote, vote:saberwolf

[Paradoxombie]

Paradox: I have never lost a game as scum (6-0). Just remember that if you lynch me and I flip town.

Yeah I'm not understanding your point, if there is one. So how many of those winning games were you lynched in?

[Paradoxombie]

If you were in my position now do you think you would support your lynch, saber?

[Paradoxombie]

and why or why not?

[Paradoxombie]

The hilarious part is I tell every single game about this bet at some point. Every single one of them end the same. You guys are gonna say "Oh, that's fine, but this game is different. He was town in all the other games, but he's def scum in this one". You will then porceed to lynch me, and I will flip town. Then you'll be like "damn, he was telling the truth, just like the last 8 games". But it's fine, because the whole goal was to either draw scum out with my scummy gambits, or die in the process, making it win-win.

Wow you sound like a petulant little kid saying how we'll all regret what we did to you. I wouldn't regret your lynch even if you were a jester. I'm glad you're happy to get out of this game because you're obviously not wanted.


Town points to whoever hammers!

[Paradoxombie]

You're acting like your lynch is a sure thing now. Are you going to act normal from now on or just keep teasing us? I need to know if I should just hammer you now so you're not a liability later on.

This is how he acted the last time I played with him (actually in this same setup). He got wagoned, attempted a gambit and resigned himself to his lynch and gave his thoughts. He was VT.

So how did the setup go last time?

[Paradoxombie]

I meant I've never played this setup before and I was wondering what to expect. The closest I've played is 6:3:3 nightless and that was one big clusterfuck, imo. Weren't you also in that game Lowell?

[Paradoxombie]

Just because someone comes up townie after doing something doesn't mean they didn't deserve to be lynched.


Saberworlf said earlier that he tries to avoid a meta. It looks more to me like he's trying to establish a meta, or rely on one. He's definitely not trying to mix up his meta like he said if he's acting the same in all his games and even from games before. I mean so far he's been constantly trying to manipulate our views by mentioning his behavior in the past and in other games. He tried to tell us this game would be just like the others. This behavior seems to blatantly contradict what he said.

[Paradoxombie]

I meant I've never played this setup before and I was wondering what to expect. The closest I've played is 6:3:3 nightless and that was one big clusterfuck, imo. Weren't you also in that game Lowell?

I was there. All I remember about that game is that I was great in it.

I thought you did pretty poorly, but I don't remember well enough to tell why. I just remember it was a lurker fest, and full of a lot of opportunistic voting. The town was systematically wiped out by both scum teams, and no one was around to scumhunt effectively. At least this game isn't all lurkers.


Scott Brocious-you made a point before about saber acting like the previous game where he was VT. You also seem to say his behavior has been changing. Is his behavior different from the other game now?


Regarding Saber's cases, they seem like an attempt to look town and secure a lynch other than himself more than to find scum. His point by point analysis seems juvenile, just trying to rack up as big of a case as he could. His statement that he only made the cases out of boredom does not ring true to me. How many games are you in right now saber?


I don't like BigMc's response to MR's replacement.

[Paradoxombie]

Saber, you won't find much sympathy from me. You reap what you sow.

[Paradoxombie]

Saber, you won't find much sympathy from me. You reap what you sow.

so what did I sow?

Your lynch, I feel you've contributed to it beyond just being scummy.

I can't quit, or I lose my bet. You already know that hewitt.

Fuck you make everything so complicated.

I don't see why things seem so complicated. I'd might take your urging for saber's replacement as a towntell if it didn't come off as so desperate. Possible buddy connection noted.

[Paradoxombie]

@Paradox
In post 12, you asked Hewitt if he has a read on you. Why did you want to know?
Post 166 is so scummy.
And posts 187 and 191 are odd posts. They just don’t fit in the state of this game.

-Nothing in particular, just discussion
-Why would scum make a post like 166 at all?
-posts 187 and 191 were just an attempt to get my head around the setup. As I said, last time I played with two scum teams the game played quite differently. Maybe they just seem odd because they are game related questions that aren't trying to discover someone's alignment.

Bigmc's voting of MR and saber as they are being replaced is hard for me to read. At first I though his flipflop on MR was suspicious, but i don't see why scum would jump onto something if they don't even know whether it's a scumtell. His vote on saber wouldn't be a good move as scum, imo. Bigmc, what is your policy regarding replacements? Does it have no effect on voting that person? and you seem to read into people's reasoning for replacement?


I don't know about saber/flave anymore. A big part of me wanting saber gone was my idea that he would always be suspicious to me, and disruptive. The actual case against him doesn't seem strong enough to carry over like people seem to want to. But I don't have any better suspects yet. I would definitely change my vote if I saw a better one, but I've done a poor job of developing multiple suspects this game(something I'd normally like to do). Saber took both my focus and motivation, so I'll need to do some rereading.

I will say that San's case on Dank just captured some of my attention.

[Paradoxombie]

Paradox, if you are not positive about Flava Flave why stay on the wagon? He's at L-1 one so a quick hammer will let the lynch go through. You seem to want the lynch to go through while appearing to second guess it.

I did forget that possibility. But I'm never gonna be positive, and I don't mind the idea of flava being lynched so much as wish I had a better suspect. I prefer not to unvote unless I have a better suspect, but even if I did that I still wouldn't oppose Flava's lynch on grounds of saber's play. For now he's still the person I want lynched the most.

[Paradoxombie]

but anyway,

unvote, vote:Lowell

His flipflopping on saber looks damn suspicious to me.

Originally:

Anyone unvoting saber after his behavior is crazy.

He's asking for it, and deserves it. More to the point, no one has explained to me why him threatening to self-hammer makes him town.

unvote, vote saber

then:

unvote saber, vote bigmc

115 and 117 are good. I have the same vague dissatisfaction from 114 that saber does.

I'm turned around on saber. For whatever reason I'm convinced he's town.

dank and saber both look town to me, despite their lover's spats.

suddenly:

I think saber's recent behavior deserves a lynch.

I'll give dan a chance to chime in, however.

@ckd- saber has been an absolute disaster since the few pages when he was actually helpful. I'll hear out the replacement, but in general I'm not a huge fan of abandoning good wagons just to be nice to replacement.

I want him to be more specific about what behvior by saber merits this most recent change.

[Paradoxombie]

The second paragraph of post 320 is way too scummy. If you wonder why, please pay attention to the bolded:

@Paradox: To answer your question real quick,

I had the idea in my head that replacing under pressure is commonly thought of as a scumtell. I was obviously wrong, hence my unvote

. This is my first game as town in which someone has replaced in after the first few days, so I don't have much of meta with it,

but I do tend to think that there are game-related motives for requesting a replacement

. It's just my mind set.

Sorry I'm just not seeing why.

also explain to me why flav is scummy...you cant say someone is scummy but not explain why.

But apparently you can label all of someone's behavior in a game as a null tell. We're not discussing on-going games, but I want you to provide evidence that saber's behavior was exactly the same in all his games, and was not influenced at all by his role.

also, your 99% confidence in a Bigmc lynch seems unrealistic to me.

That's the short version, obviously. I can post the long version if requested and if necessary, but sometimes I think the short version is better, particularly in a game with so many scum. Just saying.

Regards,
Jazz

But you haven't even told us who you want lynched and why.

* Paradoxombie
-Tell me what progress in this game we made with Post 202. Basically, why did that post need to be made?

Not enough progress was made with that post. I thought it was the best argument against saber and yet he was the only one who seemed to notice it. His reaction to it in 209 seemed odd.

@paradox- I'm mostly just annoyed that when saber had a chance to do something useful, he basically absconded. A town player would be more likely to at least do something useful, even if he knew he was going out.

Why would you expect him to be doing useful things when he didn't know he was about to be banned? Also he made some very long posts in a claimed attempt to analyze scum. Is that just out the window now that he's not here to defend himself?

[Paradoxombie]

unvote, vote:Bigmc109

I haven't found him that suspicious, but he's probably not much worse of a lynch than saber was.

[Paradoxombie]

Wow, I really like Flav's case on Dank. It does seem like Dank rode the fence a lot on MC. Dank's suspicions of BMC seem half-hearted, and in retrospect the case on saber looks lacking next to dank's arguments against BMC.

unvote, vote: Dank

Lowell reminds me of saber now. He's acting suspiciously, but he hasn't infuriated me like saber into voting him.

[Paradoxombie]

hey I've been a little lazy recently because of break. I promise more posting in the next few days.

[Paradoxombie]

Lowell reminds me of saber now. He's acting suspiciously, but he hasn't infuriated me like saber into voting him.

Paradox, did you vote saber because he infuriated you? You were very certain of the lynch, asking people to go on and hammer, but was your reasoning for it just a policy-ish annoyance? I'm looking back on your posts back then, and while you do say his behavior is anti-town, I don't really see you arguing how scummy he is, just that you want him gone and would be happy with it.

Was your reasoning for saber just anger and annoyance at him? Do you think that's a good way to carry out a D1 lynch?

I thought I was being pretty clear when I said I wanted him dead regardless of alignment. I was certain I wanted his lynch but I was never very sure he was scum, he certainly

appeared

scummy.

I
***************************
I have gut suspicions (moreso wolf and mafia) towards Paradoxombie due to his focus all game on Lowell (with a hint of suspicions towards Dank following Sanhora's case) only to switch to bigmc at the last minute (rather casually) when it seemed like a foregone conclusion bigmc was going to be the lynch. My Paradoxombie suspiscions are compounded by his defense of Bigmc towards CKD in post 343.


***************************

Well you've got your facts mixed up. I only mentioned Lowell a couple posts before my vote of Bigmc, and that was because the lynch looked like it

wasn't

going through, not because it was.


Right now I think the best approach is more pressure on dank, but if people won't back this suspicion, then I'll have to find somewhere else to make my vote useful

[Paradoxombie]

I am here still, sorry. I will have time for re-reading(and just reading) sometime in the next 2 days. Honestly I fear I may end up being the lynched just because of the lack of options. The two people who seem most suspicious to me are lowell and dank, and honestly I'd rather just lynch dank before we have to bother with another replacement.

To answer CKD because it seems relevant, I have been posting quite a bit less than usual because of winter break and the holiday weekend in addition to Modern Warfare 2 stealing my time. I should be able to get back into rhythm shorty

[Paradoxombie]

I just think Paradox is suspicious due to his switch to Lowell. He seemed unsure of the Saber wagon after wanting him gone for the entire game before that. Despite not being positive on Saber any longer, he stays on the L-1 Saber wagon. This way he could bring up his hesitance the next day after Saber was lynched. I mention this and he switches to Lowell. I found this quick transition odd after a long desire to remove Saber. Furthermore, it was relatively late in the day and it seemed like an odd tactic to try to create a swing to Lowell. I think it was more an attempt to distance himself from the inevitable wagon of Saber.

You're assuming that saber/flav is town. You can't know that. I've made it clear that a large part of me wanting a saber lynch was because he was annoying, and so why doesn't it make perfect sense for me to have a change of heart when he replaces out? I said I was okay with saber but wanted a better suspect and was going to look for something else to go on. Then you post a case on lowell. Why is my switch odd when you pointed out the basis for it? And if I was just trying to distance myself from an "inevitable" wagon, why would I single-handedly almost get someone else lynched? Someone who happens to be one of your main suspects?

very little of what you said makes sense to me.

Well...you placed your first (and granted...random) vote on Lowell (along with BigMc)..then your focus was on saberwolf...but for

TEN days prior

to your flip to BigMc...your real vote was on Lowell. Also...when you voted for Lowell (post 319)....only 9 minutes earlier (post 318) you had posted that Flave was your top suspect. That was a quick flip as well. So you may have only mentioned Lowell a few posts before your BigMc hammer but one of those mentions was a vote. And even then...you hammered someone you didn’t think was that suspicious, which I find scummy as well.

So you would have found me less suspicious if I had allowed a no lynch? I didn't hop on the wagon for cred or anything, or I wouldn't have made it so clear I didn't really suspect him. I made it clear in that post affirming saber as my top suspect that I thought it was a weak top suspect to have and I could do better. It's not as if it came out of nowhere.

[Paradoxombie]

And if I was just trying to distance myself from an "inevitable" wagon, why would I single-handedly almost get someone else lynched?

I was actually thinking of another game when I mentioned this, unless im still confused.



It looks like the only other person suspected right now besides me is Lowell. WTF am I supposed to do?

unvote, vote:Lowell

[Paradoxombie]

It looks like the only other person suspected right now besides me is Lowell. WTF am I supposed to do?

unvote, vote:Lowell

Lowell's not the only other person suspected besides you; I also suspect Hewitt for the last Werewolf, as I've been saying for ages now.

Regards,
Jazz

I'm looking through your posts and having trouble understanding your case on Hewitt. Is it just that he wasn't on hte wagon and has been keeping his head down recently?

It seems more substantial than the case on lowell anyway.

unvote, vote Hewitt

[Paradoxombie]

I think we should lynch brocktree/hewitt. He has been actively absent and last time he posted he said, he would post in a day on pain of lynch. He didn't and he has been prodded twice. This game is in danger of dying imo, because it's already quite a bit like that other game I was in with 2 scumteams which got abandoned.

The only thing that has really stuck out to me that I haven't mentioned is Having-fitz's willingness to accept a no-lynch. He's the first player in my memory to fault someone on switching votes to avoid a no-lynch, and now he prefers to keep his vote than try to avoid a no-lynch which he claims is coming.

I've considered voting myself, and I won't do it. A NK might still hit scum,(and probably should try to) but a lynch on me won't.

unvote, vote:no lynch

I'd rather not kill the last wolf anyway. I'd prefer to allow him or her to try to take out mafia, which controls a big portion of the votes. If we don't hit mafia today or tonight I fear they'll be too powerful tomorrow.

I feel we should've gone after mafia today, but it seems like we've been caught up looking for the last wolf.

[Paradoxombie]

Yeah I think we should be going after mafia.

vote:Lowell

His fluctuating opinion of saber and his constant wolfhunting.

fos:Rifka Viveka

[Paradoxombie]

Also town points to Havingfitz for not mindlessly hunting wolves. If the game ends up 3 mafia, 4 town lylo then the odds of being able to pull off a majority on a mafia is very slim.

[Paradoxombie]

Flave, it's been almost a month since you've given any kind of reasoning for suspecting me. So how about laying out some reasons before you lynch me this time?

unvote, vote:Flava Flave

[Paradoxombie]

We didn't need more activity, we needed smarter town. Even before I replaced I knew the town was rapidly losing control with each non-mafia kill. Like I said then, we shouldn't try to kill the wolf. Did you guys just not understand that the mafia was going to quicklynch or something?

Mafia is a lot harder with 2 scumteams, it's almost a different game.

Curious, I killed you cuz I was top on of your scumlist and thought you might be seer.

[Paradoxombie]

Are you arguing that from your town perspective or wolf perspective?

I wasnt BSing earlier when i talked about lynching the wolf was better than lynching mafia. I wouldnt have dared to propose any other strategy because it was IMO self evidently correct. I guess you wouldnt need to comprehensively run the math for all situations to be sure though

Like I said I was advocating not killing the wolf before I replaced back as scum, but no one took me seriously except havingfitz, who changed his mind.

It makes sense to go after the nightkiller, but not at the cost of allowing the mafia almost half the town. Both the wolf and town were weaker than mafia and needed to team up.