Open 228 - Mafia in KyleVille - Game Over!

[mykonian]

[Deadlines and Additional Information]

With

8

players alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

Deadline stands at

July the 12th

at 10:00 PM PST. I will not grant another deadline extension.

Thanks to Andrius for filling in for me while I was gone. Even though it was for such a short time, it was nice to know that nothing majorly bad was going to happen when I was gone.

OK, I was already at page 3 or so, when I got Kyle's pm back. I saw this on the last page. I can read this game easily, but there is no way my fresh analysis will have any effect on a town that is this lazy. Because, as far as I know, today is the 12th.

[mykonian]

can't really blame your for lynching Karma, after 4 pages I was already on him.

Our JK was the only one not going full for him, but for Muthaa.

Now, if I was a JK and I had blocked a kill I would know that I had 50% chance the guy was scum. Voting him could make something happen. This incriminates Muthaa. Added to this the reason Hershey mentioned: congratulating the doc. But Muthaa wasn't the only guilty of this: Oopidstay started with

interesting night...

. I'd have to read Oop again, (it is midnight now), but he started rather weird, right?

Anyway, Oop attacks Karma, and then votes Hershey for the same reason (lol?) this is at least buddying, and could be a chainsaw (tar) defense.

These are the two I would think to be scum now.

I disagree about Emp. I have played with him before, have seen him multiple times are scum (as mod and as player), and this is not his scumplay.

Oop is the way to go. I am not going to gamble on 50% and I will reread muthaa tomorrow.

[mykonian]

Actually, whether or not Battle Mage/Muthaa was jailkept N1 doesn't necessarily make him scum. N1 lasted for the full 3 days and ended in a no-kill. N2 lasted one day and resulted in a kill. It's quite possible that the scumteam simply did not get a kill submitted on time for N1.

I support massclaim today as well.

Empking is my #1 at the moment, but I'm not ready to lynch yet. Some rereading is probably in order here.

theory
agree with VP
agree with VP
I am first waiting what the others do.

You really are good at starting a day well. You know what, I'll see if I can make a case on you now.

[mykonian]

Repeatedly calling my reasoning crappy just makes you scummier. Just because you say "wah wah wah it's not a scumtell i'm not scummy" doesn't make it so.

Given that I've explained why what I'm doing isn't scummy and you have given no proof to support your accusation (that I'm nervous scum and that's why I'm changing my votes), I think I'm validated in saying your reasoning is crap.

@ Muthaa: It's been a good while since the game started. Empking has only one post, and it's a vote on someone who's been generating a bit of controversy for the same reasoning given by other people. This is worth checking out.

And what the hell? I

know

Karma's

initial

vote on me was random, and that he supported it with "reasoning" later. What does this have to do with anything? It looks like you put that in there just because it makes me look scummier.

Do you know how to read, Muthaa? Because Empking's post quite clearly says "Vote: Oop - flipping." I never said he didn't give reasoning. I said he piggybacked off of someone else's reasoning and has added nothing since.

And once again, I never said giving crappy reasoning was a town tell. You're just putting words in my mouth. You continue to put words in my mouth, along with bringing up an irrelevant point that, when phrased a certain way, makes me look bad.

FoS: Muthaa

the overeager voter suddenly FoS's

Is it possible that we caught scum this quickly on Day 1? My gut screams for me to hammer, yet my mind is still in disbelief. (Assurance factor: I don't plan on hammering until more discussion is had.)

this was the second post where he said he wasn't going to hammer yet. Brilliant, he is so making sure that he is protown and letting people discuss...

Then his first post day 2 is "interesting night..." I have already stated I think this is scum adjusting to the fact that the kill didn't go through and waiting for the rest to think of something new before he sticks his head out.

This isn't very coherent, but I really need my sleep now.

[mykonian]

yes, I want to see it, now. Tomorrow I might not be here to reply. And there is no real reason to wait with it.

I wonder, why did you even choose to

not

post something?

Links about Empking

http://www.mafiascum.net/archive/viewto ... aa&start=0
http://www.mafiascum.net/archive/viewto ... 2d2780f9aa

these were the two I remembered.

[mykonian]

Now I ask you, what information that you could post would convince me (hint, claims don't), while they would give information to the scum they shouldn't have? I could imagine that someone looking quite protown might get killed, but that isn't you right now, right?

Stop hiding, stop taking advantage of something VP said that doesn't apply here and post your defense.

[mykonian]

I have no idea why you would ever wait with posting a defense. You say you have already typed it, but I very much doubt that. Nobody would go this far to wait with a defense on the completely false idea that this would somehow help scum. Defenses have never helped scum. Or they have to fake one and fail, or a townie does its word to survive.

Townies want to defend themselves: they know they have good intentions. You don't.

For me, you don't even have to make the effort of faking a defense now, I don't care if we lynch you today or tomorrow.

vote nolynch

[mykonian]

next day, defence plz.

Vote oopid

Night didn't last 72 hours, so it can't be inactive. Stupid it is. (kyle, this is why you don't see shortened nights often. It might give information, esspecially in cases where people are known to be inactive. I would change this rule in your next game.)

You would love to call yourself stupid as scum when you were actually clever. I think you wouldn't call yourself stupid in a normal situation, unless you are forced to (which you aren't here). The main reason for town VP posting this would be to see a reaction, but I didn't know you as such kind of a player. You are not someone who makes the action, you are more an observer.
Empking is a straightforward player, but not someone who leads scum at night. If he were alone he would have killed. If he is scum, we are looking for a partner that overruled him.
Battle mage isn't stupid, but that is all I know.

[mykonian]

give me one good reason. Except letting the game die. There is no way scum can get anything out of a defense. Protecting your buddy?

[mykonian]

I have a few problems with all this, which you may not have noticed.

Observation 1: I have a good feeling about Oop being scum
Observation 2: he isn't here, and because of you he already got away from defending. I see no reason not to post a defense and I'm quite annoyed you are arguing against me here. I am not going to vote to end this day before I have that defense.

Other stuff:

about your playstyle: you are not the person to bait scum. I didn't say you couldn't lead, but your main way of finding scum is not posting something to let them react on, but you rather read everybody's post in the hope of finding scum (you observe rather then "hunt" which is more active)

The reason I posted that bit is that many people have a problem with possibly calling someone stupid. If you were town, you are either having no problems with that (small chance), or you are doing it for a reason. (Insult scum into doing something stupid, I guess), or you are scum and then it is of course a big joke.

[mykonian]

Then you won't mind me waiting for Oops defense. After that we can see what we are going to do.

[mykonian]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ding_Mafia

What proof do

you

have, Karma? As in, link games plz.

P.S. What does that even mean - scum trying to exploit something suspicious-looking?

If you agree that it is suspicious-looking, then isn't that just called...scumhunting?

So scum can't point out suspicious things that townspeople do and try to exploit said suspicious things to create mislynches? Suspicious does not always equal scummy.

Vote: Hershey Kiss

For doing the same thing Karma is doing.

I'm sorry? Am I misreading this? why hershey and not Karma?

Repeatedly calling my reasoning crappy just makes you scummier. Just because you say "wah wah wah it's not a scumtell i'm not scummy" doesn't make it so.

Given that I've explained why what I'm doing isn't scummy and you have given no proof to support your accusation (that I'm nervous scum and that's why I'm changing my votes), I think I'm validated in saying your reasoning is crap.

@ Muthaa: It's been a good while since the game started. Empking has only one post, and it's a vote on someone who's been generating a bit of controversy for the same reasoning given by other people. This is worth checking out.

And what the hell? I

know

Karma's

initial

vote on me was random, and that he supported it with "reasoning" later. What does this have to do with anything? It looks like you put that in there just because it makes me look scummier.

Do you know how to read, Muthaa? Because Empking's post quite clearly says "Vote: Oop - flipping." I never said he didn't give reasoning. I said he piggybacked off of someone else's reasoning and has added nothing since.

And once again, I never said giving crappy reasoning was a town tell. You're just putting words in my mouth. You continue to put words in my mouth, along with bringing up an irrelevant point that, when phrased a certain way, makes me look bad.

FoS: Muthaa

You have never voted Muthaa. This is your only FoS in the game while you were known for switching votes easily.


You insult me twice, even have the guts to call me a crappy player but it won't save you here. Did you ever realise that with the average scum you can find holes in their reasonings when they start to insult people instead of properly defending?

[mykonian]

About the "interesting night...", the two times "I'm not going to hammer yet": you aren't discussing, you aren't scumhunting. You are only: adjusting to the fact the night went wrong and you didn't know what to say (get the ball rolling? lol. With those two words!). And you didn't want to hammer too soon because the town might blame you for the mislynch.

And the most fun I have is with the answer for Paltry: you are first saying Empking is going to get lynched anyway. I see non of such sings and I have already stated I will oppose that lynch because empking doesn't play as scum here. Then you are doing the same as you had with Karma too: I make a case on you, I must be scum. You don't have a single point against me, only that my case on you might be a "badly-constructed counterwagon to the imminent Empking lynch". Talking about manipulative sentences, this is the top.


I'm going to answer VP's question for him. I might be tunneling now, but the answer should be obvious to any town, but you seem to be different again. When you want a draw? when you are in the disadvantage. We have had 2 mislynches, we are currently in MYLO. I think that counts. One mislynch and we have lost. That's why we want a draw

[mykonian]

All of that being said, I agree with myk about the insulting instead of defending from oopid looking scummy. Maybe we should gamble.

You have pressuring scum into mistakes and you have taking the wrong choice. We shouldn't gamble. We can only lose if we do. Even if we are right, we are facing another tough decision tomorrow. We should force the scums hand, even if it only was to get back to an uneven number.

One other thing: Empking, you are never afraid to vote. Why did you only agree to the plan and why didn't you vote for a no lynch?

Anyway, I know that at least one person who sees that Oop is scum is alive tomorrow: VOTE: no lynch

[mykonian]

lylo. So we have to lynch scum or we lose the game. VOTE: Oopidstay

[mykonian]

Damn, can't believe I was this wrong. Sorry oop. I tunneled way too much.

[mykonian]

ok. First: VP was right. Town sucked. Esspecially Oop made it particulary easy to construct a perfectly sound case on him: you don't get to call people "noob" when you are playing like that. If I was town I would have lynched you just as hard. I really would try to change my playstyle if I were you.

A few simple things: cases will be made against you. Doesn't have to be scum: what you need to do is find out why they are doing that and don't let yourself go into aggressive OMGUS mode. This cost you this game: VP was swayed as soon as you went against me without any decent reasoning other then that my case must be wrong. Further, try to avoid the wiki-scumtells. People follow them although they aren't accurate at all. They are just easy and it is part of the meta on MS that you follow them. There are reasons for that, none of them are good, and the biggest of it is that people don't understand the game.

Kyle, I know it sucks, but all you can do as a mod to keep your game active is being the most active of all: give out prods often, find replacements quickly (actively search for them), post votecounts etc. If you slow down, chances are your game will too. If you are fast, the chances are quite a bit better that your game will be active too.

[mykonian]

Especially where you kept making arguments about points without bothering to see if I'd responded to them or not. I just didn't get that across well enough.

This happens a lot, people miss things, and when they try to make a case they skim the thread again. In this case, it wasn't intentional. When you are playing with me again, you can be sure: I don't misread things intentionally. It just happens (and I'm sure I'm not the only one)