Open 236 - Pamplona Mafia (C9++) Game Over
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Prox Goon
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Sigh. Hello.
So I didn't have time to finish my first-post but I saved it as a draft and will finish it when I get back on a desktop.
I was going to go ahead and vote for someone, but I really need this first-post to get started. It helps me centtalize my thoughts, get interested in the game, and not cause a mislynch of myself later on.
So I'll be back tomorrow, when I get a computer and completely acquainted with the game, and then hopefully help the town to victory. Sorry for not finishing sooner.This time, I'll not care.-
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Never said it was.
That thing about shotty asking for meta surprised me- that's a first for him, period.
I'll be looking at your meta, also, however. Since that was brought to my attention..
Speaking of which, again, Ythan uses his spoonfeeding excuse in both alliances in the same way he's done Today. If you're going to call him scummy, don't do it through that.
I don't want to go any further until I get my Desktop back.This time, I'll not care.-
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Oh no. I'm surrounded by paranoid superiors...
You'll have to forgive my tone this first post. It's far too upbeat and casual for you guys. But it'll be my only one like that. I promise. I need it to getintothe game, you know?
I like this logic.The Fonz wrote:unvote, vote netlava
I can't think of any protown benefit of answering that particular question. I can think of a problem (as Al pointed out). This suggests Netlava didn't really think about it very much, and just went for go with the flow approach.FoS Netlava
(vote: drmyshottyizsik?)Ythan wrote:Dr, you're scum. Your hop onto Net is disingenuous and your demand that he provide meta to dispute it as well. Beef, how can you suspect just me OR Net if the basis of your suspicion is that we're both scum?
You. I found this thread and the Mod's sig while I was building your wiki. Speaking of which, I am not amused.drmyshottyizsik wrote:Why am I scummy? And ythan, I like meta reading people
I'll make you a wiki. That will solve your problem.Netlava wrote:Unvote, vote: drmyshottyizsik
Yeah, I don't believe that one can make assessments on my playstyle that quickly. If you really like meta so much, you would have learned about the search feature by now.
Well, the wording kinda bothered me at first, but I can see what people are having problems with now.Well, pro or antitown is an opinion, so can't really be a mischaracterisation.
Lol. Firefox quickly defined that as "lacking in candor". I'm so glad I didn't pay for that app.Ythan wrote:
That's fine. I called your in-thread request for it disingenuous.drmyshottyizsik wrote:Why am I scummy? And ythan, I like meta reading people
Yes!drmyshottyizsik wrote:Me too, but of course it was on me.
So is my name really that annoying to type out?
Yes. ~~NS
Trust me, I know. But I've memorized it O.o
I chose a really short name so this wouldn't happen. If it ever does, I will likely rage.Zajnet wrote:drmyshottyizsik wrote:the oppertunistic vote, so im kind of a bias voice.
@ NS It's not that hard!!! G & H is the only one who ever spells it out thoughdrmyshottyizsik wrote:@ NS It's not that hard!!! G & H is the only one who ever spells it out thoughdrmyshottyizsik wrote:@ NS It's not that hard!!!
The irony is amusing.drmyshottyizsik wrote:@ NS
Oh. I thought you were trying to make scum slip :/Ythan wrote:Then you don't believe me. What am I supposed to freak out about it or try to prove to you what I was thinking? No. I was speculating on the setup and thinking about the one kill.
Thank you for clarifying.
Yea1!1kyle99 wrote:
No, finding the number of players who would vig would narrow down the people who would be a vig and out them to the mafia. That is extremely anti-town.Ythan wrote:Knowing how players in this game would act as a vigilante, a role whose actions are immediately apparent if successful, would aid in my speculation. I was trying to narrow it down but in this complicated setup that really won't be fruitful for some time.
No.Ythan wrote:
The reason you gave for voting me is a lie. Had i not said that very plainly?Alduskkel wrote:No. What makes you say that?
It was hard to understand this. I took it as: "It does not! Read the stinkin' thread! ..." At that point I got confused and read harder. Stop making me do that.Ythan wrote:
It does not. Read. As genuine. Next.Okay. What makes it disingenuous?
You're only asking him to reiterate his scummy answer.The Fonz wrote:Ythan, please answer the question on everyone's lips, which is to explain why you suggested asking everyone if they liked vigging N0 in the first place. What were you trying to achieve?
I did. It didn't work well.I'm usually at least somewhat sarcastic. I have no idea if I'm being particularly sarcastic/cutting in this game. I don't have a sarcasm meter Firefox add-on that tells me if I've reached my sarcasm quota for a particular post.
This must happen to you a lot ^^Ythan wrote:I havedirectlyreferred back to such instances on at least one occasion. I'm not going to keep spoonfeeding you because you can't bother read through the five page thread.
Bingo. Have you considered the possibility that the problem isn't caused by the stupid players?Ythan wrote:This isn't an issue of pride it's an issue of the same stupid anti-town behavior I see all the time when people can't read a thread to answer their own damn questions.
Oh. Well, then. >.>Alduskkel wrote:You don't need a dictionary to know that disingenuous = not being genuine. So your logic is one big circle of he's scummy because he's scummy.
Um... (Ythan said:)"It does not. Read. As genuine. Next." So I misread this?Ythan wrote:I did not say he is disingenuous being he's not being genuine, actually.
Okay, now I'm annoyed. I thought I was smart.Ythan wrote:tautology?
Its close enough.Ythan wrote:Ugh. Spoonfeed mode. It, what you quoted, is not what you, Alduskkel, said that I, Ythan, said, tautology.
Same difference. Your gut says it isn't genuine.Ythan wrote:You foolish fool. How many times do I have to say gut. Gut gut gut. Gut gut. Intestines bowels. Sphincter.
I should start doing this. Makes me less accountable.The Fonz wrote:Reading Ythan is kinda hard since... y'know, people don't normally admit that there is absolutely no protown reason for their actions.
Oh my.Ythan wrote:I have trouble with ending pointless discussions on my own. Why are you still asking irrelevant questions instead of ones that might contribute to something useful? If you think that last question had some purpose other than keeping your post count up, please enlighten me.
Please don't call me Pr.Ythan wrote:Al, then dr.
He's been here for a month and /inned to 15 games.Ythan wrote:Yab I believe that Dr's request for my suspects was an attempt to appear active. However, I'll give you a top scummies list.
Nobody Special wrote:The votecount has not changed.@Mod: Could you post the vote counts anyways when this happens? Makes things easier. More visible.
Maybe the reason you wanted to help the scum find out who the vig(s) might be?Ythan wrote:Unless you can make some meager attempt to show where I'm hiding something you're blowing smoke. Despite all the outlandish obfuscation in this thread I have seen no attempt to explain how I'm actually hiding anything. It's on the verge of getting pathetic.
Hidden by your general posting style?
Speaking of which, how did the answer read as not genuine? What was going on in your head to reach this conclusion?Ythan wrote:One, no. I had already posted the answers to his inane questions. That more or less invalidates the next few lines. However, two, even if it didn't, your leap to "hiding something" verges on stupid. You already have a conclusion you like and you're making a wild leap from what evidence you have (although, see point one) to that conclusion. As for your discomfort about my response to his "random" vote, that is almost LESS than ZERO percent relevant somehow. Are you just looking for filler to stretch the post out or do you think that actually helps your case?
...or at least a weak one.The Fonz wrote:
2) Overly defensive is a scum argument. Also, to my mind, he wasn't defensive, he was attacking- trying to place pressure on a minor point to get the game going. This to my mind is slightly townish, as it reads as trying to create an argument to get the game going. I've also attacked players in the past for seemingly being unable to keep their story straight about their reasons for their random votes.Beefster wrote: Furthermore, I reread and did an ISO, and I'm not at all liking how overly defensive he was about Alduskkel's RANDOM vote.FoS Beefster(I'll come back to this. Maybe.)
Maybe I'm being naive, but none of these seem to make shotty seem scummy to me.Netlava wrote:Also, to clarify my stance on drmyshottyizsik, I'm a bit suspicious of his meta incident and his fluff, and he's also been quite lurkish.
Such a pro-town post.drmyshottyizsik wrote:PROX!!!!!!!! HI!
ADry-fit wrote:
The attacks are based on more than that.ekiM wrote:I don't think there's actually a scum motivation for being obnoxious, so I don't see the attacks on Ythan.bitmore.
Who is dry again? At first, before looking at the author a second time (bad short-term memory I have), I thought you were talking about you. O.odrmyshottyizsik wrote:Okheregoes my thoughts on what has happened lately.
Dry is lurking and beinguseless.
My opinion on beef is that he is dumb and VI'ish
I think the vote count has it right, Ythan and Net are pretty scummy
I think no one should be lyncheduntilwe hear more from Dry Ald and Ekim
Your opinion on beef is inaccurate. And harsh.
Why do you think Ythan and Net are scummy? List. Be accurate.
Really? More on this later.drmyshottyizsik wrote:Also my views havent changed to much
...and?drmyshottyizsik wrote:yep
Weird, yes. But scummy? What was scum-Ythan thinking by both catalyzing discussion and bringing attention to himself? Since when is getting activity going a bad thing?Beefster wrote:He was attacking a totally non-threatening random vote. It got the activity going, but that's not necessarily pro-town.
Weird. I guess I missed that.Fonz wrote:Funny, I found Beefster's case contrived. That's why I, y'know, voted him.
I just learned that I have to use a spell-check to get the world weird right O.o
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I don't like
Netlava
Ythan
Drmyshottyizsik
Beefster
or this one guy who's post I never quoted for some reason and thus forgot about.
Time to narrow down things. To make a serious post.This time, I'll not care.-
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PREVIEW EDIT: Oh my. This hasn't happened before. But don't worry, my playstyle isn't anti-town in any obvious functions. Except:I do not role claim at L-1 unless sure of a hammer. Remember that for later. And, like I said, my first-post is more for me than for you, though in this way indirectly for you.
vote shotty: you get my first vote because you might be town, but right now you suck and look...disingenuous. But I read you as a lazy town who doesn't want to go through the effort of trying. Fix this.
@Netlava:
Why not?Netlava wrote:No, I don't disagree.
That doesn't mean you should support it the proposal. I call this bull.Netlava wrote:Blatantly anti-town? That seems like a mischaracterization. I was about to answer the question, but then decided to see if there were any objections first.
Has shotty answered this yet? If he has, I might.Netlava wrote:@drmyshottizsik
What made you think that it was a playstyle issue?
EDIT: Shotty should answer this question.
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@Beefster:
This makes you seem unnecessarily apprehensive.Beefster wrote:I'm not complaining. I'm just saying where I've been. I wanted to post earlier but couldn't.
Could you elaborate what Ythan is obviously hiding by not recapping?Beefster wrote:I thought I posted pretty recently. Maybe I just didn't feel I had anything to add. Anyway, I've been wanting to say this for a while but forgot.
I'm not liking how Ythan is refusing to (basically) defend himself calling it spoonfeeding. Recapping is NOT spoonfeeding. I'd say spoonfeeding is more like building someone else's case for them. You're obviously hiding something.
This post doesn't make sense. So you do think Ythan was just dodging the question or that he was too lazy to go back and find them or too... Ythanic (pronounced EE-Than-ic; term soon to be patented)... to realize that he never answered the question?Beefster wrote:@Ythan: When Alduskkel was pressing you for answers, you refused to answer him by calling it spoonfeeding. In reality you never actually answered the questions. I think it was YOU who was too lazy to read the thread and quote yourself for answers. Therefore you are hiding something.
Furthermore, I reread and did an ISO, and I'm not at all liking how overly defensive he was about Alduskkel's RANDOM vote.
My vote stands.
I'll restate this in this now-serious post:Beefster wrote:
He was attacking a totally non-threatening random vote. It got the activity going, but that's not necessarily pro-town.The Fonz wrote:2) Overly defensive is a scum argument. Also, to my mind, he wasn't defensive, he was attacking- trying to place pressure on a minor point to get the game going. This to my mind is slightly townish, as it reads as trying to create an argument to get the game going. I've also attacked players in the past for seemingly being unable to keep their story straight about their reasons for their random votes.
Weird, yes. But scummy? What was scum-Ythan thinking by both catalyzing discussion and bringing attention to himself? Since when is getting activity going a bad thing?
Clarify: You haven't explained sufficiently the reason that Ythan's attack on a nonthreatening random vote is scummy.
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@Shotty:
Since when??drmyshottyizsik wrote:And ythan, I like meta reading people
His whole play-style? Clarify.drmyshottyizsik wrote:Yes, either he is scum or his playstyle is anti town. I would like to meta read him. NETLAVA SEND ME A LINK OF YOU PLAYING TOWN AND MAFIA PLEASE
Also, what were you hoping to find in Netlava's recent games? I think I know, but I don't want to assume.
Why did you ask this? The tone and setting seems serious.drmyshottyizsik wrote:Ythan, are you scum?
I got an entirely different read from that altercation you speak of.drmyshottyizsik wrote:I don't know, maybe he is your partner and you didn't want him to fall through the cracks too early, but when you realized he was just a dumb ass you backed off
Also: this view seems to suggest that you believe beef is scummy. But then you call him a VI (again, harsh). What is it?
This sounds like Good & Honest, not playing the game but still a part of it. You aren't G&H: PLAY THE GAME.drmyshottyizsik wrote:Ok gere goes my thoughts on what has happened lately.
Dry is lurking and being unuseful.
My opinion on beef is that he is dumb and VI'ish
I think the vote count has it right, Ythan and Net are pretty scummy
I think no one should be lynched untill we hear more from Dry Ald and Ekim
So I'm going to have to assume that reading netlava's meta didn't change your opinion of him? Tell us what you found.drmyshottyizsik wrote:Also my views havent changed to much
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@Ythan:
Why did you ask for this?Ythan wrote:Al, provide a reason for your vote on me.
Why didn't you believe Al's answer?
Why did you ask this question?Ythan wrote:Before anyone answers, does anyone disagree with asking everyone what their policy is on shooting N0 as a vig?
You're being inquisitive about his random vote due to the fact that it has no flavor. That is useful? How?Ythan wrote:Insistent on not accompanying his vote with any kind of random vote stage flavor, yet then felt it necessary to question me regarding my brief entry post, despite the fact that some players had not even posted and in fact still have not. Inquisitive but not about anything useful;...
If Dr is scum, why don't you vote for him?Ythan wrote:Dr, you're scum. Your hop onto Net is disingenuous and your demand that he provide meta to dispute it as well. Beef, how can you suspect just me OR Net if the basis of your suspicion is that we're both scum?
Why do you insist that Al make up a reason for his random vote? What is going through your head?Ythan wrote:You sure are dodgy about the simplest possible question in the game.
Ythan wrote:Knowing how players in this game would act as a vigilante, a role whose actions are immediately apparent if successful, would aid in my speculation. I was trying to narrow it down but in this complicated setup that really won't be fruitful for some time.THERE IT IS! THE REASON YTHAN ROLEFISHED. HE ACTUALLY DID ANSWER THE QUESTION!
How is it protown to publicly narrow down the possibilities of who the vigilante(s) might be?
Also, wouldn't it have been easier to just go ahead and quote the post you knew you already made or at least restate what you had already said rather "I've already said this"?
It would seem to me like you were trying to bog down the game by being so stubborn if it weren't for the fact that you do the same thing as scum and town.
What would you said if I called this backtracking?Ythan wrote:
I have answered this. I was speculating on my own about the nature of the setup. It was unwise for me to ask that question but it did not occur to me at the time.The Fonz wrote:Ythan, please answer the question on everyone's lips, which is to explain why you suggested asking everyone if they liked vigging N0 in the first place. What were you trying to achieve?
That's not good enough. If it's just gut, you have to say what in the post triggerred the gut. People don't get bad vibes from someone without ANY sort of provocation. You should be able to express yourself better than that.Ythan wrote:
This is a dumb question. You are either being intentionally obtuse or you are just obtuse. I don't trust your inquiry because I don't trust your inquiry. It's how it reads to me. I will not attempt to further break this down.Alduskkel wrote:And what makes you think that they're disingenuous?
Don't you understand why people sometimes ask you a question more than once?
No, you haven't. Sorry. You haven't once quoted yourself in one of your posts. The closest thing to this happening was when Fonz asked you about your reason for rolefishing and you backtracked.Ythan wrote:I havedirectlyreferred back to such instances on at least one occasion. I'm not going to keep spoonfeeding you because you can't bother read through the five page thread.
This reminds me of Netlava not putting much thought into his posts.Ythan wrote:I was uncertain, which is why I asked. I had a hunch it might not be ideal so instead of coming out and asking I did that.
But you didn't speculate about how rolefishing would make the town's vigilante(s) more obvious?Ythan wrote:
Semi-open setup means that I don't know what the setup is but I can figure it out, to an extent. I want to know as much as possible. I was speculating in the literal sense. In my head. There is no why. It's what I was doing.The Fonz wrote:blah blah
Nice contribution.Zajnet wrote:The Fonz has a solid point there, Ythan. What were you hoping to accomplish with your question?
And you could go ahead and answer the question by attacking Zajnet at the same time.
Could you list why?Ythan wrote:Al, then dr.
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Ythan seems strange but right now I have to clear out some discrepancies before voting him.
And Netlava/Beef are #2This time, I'll not care.-
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I thought it was obvious that he wanted to narrow down who might and might not be vigilante so he could find out the VVVVV's or whatever. Or did I misinterpret?
But could you, ah, wait to respond to the parts of my post directed at specific people until they respond to them?This time, I'll not care.-
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You promised a wall post.Zajnet wrote:I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the active lurking topic because I don't consider fencesitting and being V/LA to be active lurking. The beginning of games is always hard for me analytically, so I fencesit a lot, but I do provide opinions and content.This time, I'll not care.-
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Again, let me be clear what info I need for you to be perfectly clear on, and that you have NOT made clear in your other posts:
I know that you think that Al lied about the reason for his random vote. It is clear that you got this opinion through gut. But I want to know what made your gut tell you this. What set it off?
I know that you at first thought that your rolefishing would help you with your speculation. But I want to know HOW it would habe helped you. What did you have to gain?
vote Ythan L-2until I'm satisfied.This time, I'll not care.-
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Ythan is town, I think.
Also, Al's statements do contradict. Its relatively hard to do eeny-meeny-miney-mo with your eyes closed for starters.
That information alone makes Al's random vote suspicious to me. I have some ideas about why scum might do this, but talking about them might be antitown. However, the result could help us a lot, too, if done right. Thoughts?
And again, I'd rather Al have talked about his random vote before you put your 3 cents in. It would have been more useful in reading him.This time, I'll not care.-
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Oh. I misread a post. Al is in the clear (sort of), but Ythan is also right in suspecting him (sort of).
Still, Ythan seems more likely town than Al, but only because of his content. However, Ythan and his immediate suspicion of Al's random vote still confuses me. It could suggest several things.
We need to start moving focus to where focus is due.This time, I'll not care.-
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Really?Dry-fit wrote:Sorry guys, some bizarre circumstances recently came up.
I'd like ekiM to take more of a stance on players. Is Netlava still your top suspect?
Nothing about Ythan's back and forth with The Fonz makes him look an more town to me.
@Fonz: In other games I've seen you try to get the town to agree to certain things when the game starts. Why didn't you do that here?
Why do you find Ythan scummy again?This time, I'll not care.-
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I can't deny this, but I don't believe you. It seems like you backtracked to cover your contradiction. You can't change my mind about this.Alduskkel wrote:Back from vacation. Need to catch up a fair bit. Just reached the stupid stuff over my random vote. Point is, I closed my eyes and pointed. Then I eenie meenie miney moed, changing my finger position each time.This time, I'll not care.-
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I think talking about those things would constitute as rolefishing, and help the mafia. Do you disagree?
Because, really, can't you guess why scum might "randomly" vote a player on the Day after N0?
The case on Al isn't currently strong enough to get him lynched today. And there's more than one scum. I'd rather have a known scum alive N1 than an unknown one; this game has a vig in it.This time, I'll not care.-
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Sigh.
1. I most likely won't claim at all.
2. It suggests that Ythan knows things. Things we don't. And I believe he's Town.
3. Questions about Ythan's immediate suspicion of Al's vote.
4. Already explained.
5. Al may be sending a signal to his buds. Probably signifying either he's townie or PR.
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When I inquired to Ythan if I should speculate about this, he declined.
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I already explained that the case on Al is too weak. There is little I can say more about it, and you find my thoughts implausible already. And I'm not going to advocate the lynch of someone based on one thing, especially something that can't be proven. But it only takes one to vig, and he can make that choice.
And I've already explained why I've held speculations back.This time, I'll not care.-
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Woah woah woah!
Beefster answered his Q's. He is not scum.unvote
Shotty, your voting pattern is suspect. Also that thing about G&H is true. But it is constructive criticism. Take it positively.
Al, probability has no effect on actuality. You didn't RV anyone else: you RV'd Ythan. That is a fallacy. Hm.
It's Ythan immediately addressing your RV that is telling.This time, I'll not care.-
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Hm...if Alisa Spy and my suspicions are correct, then there are 3 scum.
That would have to be Netlava and someone else...
If Al really did just make a little mistake as town and backtracked to fix it, then there are at least 2 non-Al scum anyways.
Netlava is currently the most likely scum here...leaving there to be 1 more...Maybe Drmyshottyizsik?
I need to read the thread some more.
For now,vote netlavaThis time, I'll not care.-
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Sigh. I hate when I look like an idiot.
I don't think specifically the RV could signify a power; it could also signify vanilla. But I do think it signifies something. And I have no other backing than the thread and my gut to tell me so. And my gut ain't all that. That is all, end of story. Let's lynch someone scummier today.
Shotty or Netlava, now. Though I think the Netlava wagon is stronger. If shotty isn't just an idiot and is badscum, then we'll still be a bit safer at Night. Also, I find myself being careful whenever I lynch an idiot.This time, I'll not care.-
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Sigh. Now I can see why Ythan gets so stubborn about going back and repeating himself.
No. I guess I'll look for itYthan wrote:Are you referring to 344?
Sigh. I'm not that newbie. Ythan answered my questions and my gut told me the answers were valid. I guess I'll find out this game if my gut has any worth on the internet.Yabbaguy wrote:Prox is making a plethora of bizarre speculations such as claiming Ythan is town near-baselessly and basically reaching conclusions whose bases I don't fully comprehend. I will keep in mind that perhaps these are raw newbie thoughts, so I'm not ready to call this a basing of information on informed facts (i.e. with Mafia-given information), but it's something to look at. I'd also like him to restate his Netlava thoughts or point out a post where he stated such, just to double-check on him.
Fine fine fine. I'll just drop it and call it paranoia. But I know what I read. To me it seems Al accidentally noted two different methods of random voting, and then backtracked to combine the two. But fine. I'll just ignore it.Yabbaguy wrote:I don't know how in blazes Prox finds a contradiction (scummy??????) of all things nestled inside a random vote's rationale, which is sort of an oxymoronic phrase IMO.
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And ignoring that, Netlava and Shotty are still the most scummy.
This has been restated already.@Netlava:
Why not?Netlava wrote:No, I don't disagree.
That doesn't mean you should support it the proposal. I call this bull.Netlava wrote:Blatantly anti-town? That seems like a mischaracterization. I was about to answer the question, but then decided to see if there were any objections first.
Has shotty answered this yet? If he has, I might.Netlava wrote:@drmyshottizsik
What made you think that it was a playstyle issue?
EDIT: Shotty should answer this question.
:SProx wrote:Sigh.
1. I most likely won't claim at all.
2. It suggests that Ythan knows things. Things we don't. And I believe he's Town.
3. Questions about Ythan's immediate suspicion of Al's vote.
4. Already explained.
5. Al may be sending a signal to his buds. Probably signifying either he's townie or PR.
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When I inquired to Ythan if I should speculate about this, he declined.
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I already explained that the case on Al is too weak. There is little I can say more about it, and you find my thoughts implausible already. And I'm not going to advocate the lynch of someone based on one thing, especially something that can't be proven. But it only takes one to vig, and he can make that choice.
And I've already explained why I've held speculations back.This time, I'll not care.-
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