Open 236 - Pamplona Mafia (C9++) Game Over

[Netlava]

Vote: Zajnet

For thinking the RVS is fun

[Netlava]

No, I don't disagree.

[Netlava]

There's really no reason for the SK and mafia not to shoot every night.

[Netlava]

Blatantly anti-town? That seems like a mischaracterization. I was about to answer the question, but then decided to see if there were any objections first.

[Netlava]

Unvote, vote: drmyshottyizsik

Yeah, I don't believe that one can make assessments on my playstyle that quickly. If you really like meta so much, you would have learned about the search feature by now.

Well, pro or antitown is an opinion, so can't really be a mischaracterisation.

Well, the wording kinda bothered me at first, but I can see what people are having problems with now.

[Netlava]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=13395
^Last game as town

No games on record as scum.

[Netlava]

@drmyshottizsik

What made you think that it was a playstyle issue?

[Netlava]

The way I interpreted the question, it was more of a question of whether or not there is an SK in this game. In which case, the lack of 2 kills on N0 means it is less likely for there to be an SK than before. Either way, it should become more apparent after another night, I would think.

[Netlava]

Okay, so I've been taking a closer look at the Ythan-Aldusskel argument and here are my thoughts:

Ythan's claim that Alduskkel's random vote is a lie is interesting because it's a very strong accusation. However, I can't think of a good reason for someone to lie over a random vote.

Ythan and Alduskkel both accusing each other of active lurking is a pretty pointless argument, imo. Same with the argument over quoting.

---

Err, is it really not clear from my recent posts?

No it's not clear. Who do you find scummy?

[Netlava]

I don't know, maybe he is your partner and you didn't want him to fall through the cracks too early, but when you realized he was just a dumb ass you backed off

What is your opinion of beef?

[Netlava]

@Fonz: Who is the worst "active lurker?"

[Netlava]

At Netlava: Zajnet is the worst active lurker.

Active lurking means that a person is trying to appear active without posting anything of substance and a definite cause for suspicion. I'm curious why you said Zajnet was active lurking without placing any suspicion on him.

[Netlava]

Also, to clarify my stance on drmyshottyizsik, I'm a bit suspicious of his meta incident and his fluff, and he's also been quite lurkish.

[Netlava]

Just to note, shotty's lack of content is probably related to the fact that he's started 15 games since becoming active in mid-early-July.

That's no excuse.

[Netlava]

Not knowing what active lurking means isn't a scum tell, but I think some of the other things Fonz has been saying could be.

The fact that he bothered to differentiate between the 2 is what bothers me.

[Netlava]

@drmyshottyizsik: Just curious, did you "meta" me btw?

[Netlava]

I will be

V/LA until August 9

Noted. ~~NS

[Netlava]

Just got back, will post tomorrow

[Netlava]

What the hell gives you the impression that I had no suspicion of him?

There was no indication of suspicion, when normally I'd expect an active lurking accusation to be a somewhat strong accusation.

Why not?

I didn't disagree because I didn't think of a problem with the question.

Why does that bother you?

Because Fonz had not expressed suspicion of Zajnet when normally active lurking is something that players find scummy.

Oh hey Zajnet, could you please change your vote to someone who is scum? Or at least a different scum? That'd help.

Sure.

UNVOTE: VOTE: beefster

Don't like this exchange. If someone asks me to change my vote, the last thing I'll do is change it.

I think you're lurking, but you seem to have a legitimate excuse. If you resume lurking that badly again though, I will vote for you.

What's dr's legitimate excuse for lurking?

Because, really, can't you guess why scum might "randomly" vote a player on the Day after N0?

Why don't you just tell us what you think? Instead of suggesting everything is implied.

The case on Al isn't currently strong enough to get him lynched today. And there's more than one scum. I'd rather have a known scum alive N1 than an unknown one; this game has a vig in it.

Stupid logic. If you think someone is scum, then you lynch him.

It's a fun hobby I took up at the start of thursday morning murder

Which is when?

The game was moving along slowly so I thought I may as well start an attack on him,,, but that really didnt go anywhere

Were you suspicious of him or were you just doing it for the hell of it?

Hi, Netlava, welcome back!

Hello!

---

I'm currently suspicious of dr, Prox, and Zajnet.

[Netlava]

Bizarre. Ythan appears to be trying to scumhunt as far as I can tell.

If Ythan is trying to scumhunt, then that means you think he's town, right?

[Netlava]

Unvote, vote: Dry-Fit

Saying your top suspect is trying to scumhunt is inconsistent, as only town try to scumhunt.

[Netlava]

Drmy's stance on dry - "I'll hammer dry" to "dry isn't that scummy" - is inconsistent.

Also, dry, if you say that someone is appearing to scumhunt, then that's like saying that person is townie. Scum don't actually scumhunt.

[Netlava]

Also, making excuses is a bit of a scumtell, imo.

[Netlava]

Yeah, I wasn't referring to your post.

[Netlava]

It's a general statement.

[Netlava]

It looks like he has more momentum and no lynch is BAD.

Technically, saying Dry-fit's wagon has more momentum after yabbaguy just tips the scales would be incorrect. However, I do prefer a Dry-fit lynch.

[Netlava]

Dry-fit's kill looks more like the vig kill than Ythan's. I thought it was suspect how the wagon swung off of him at the last moment, but apparently he's town too... Either way, I think it looks like we can conclude that there is no SK, as it would be poor play for the SK not to shoot 2 nights in a row.

Zajnet is my top suspect. I'm really not fond of his sudden vote change when he was asked to do so by Prox. It seems unnatural and overeager, as if he were looking for a reason to change his vote. Switching your vote off your presumed top suspect, which is normally a compromise, isn't something that I'd expect to be done so eagerly and enthusiastically.

Prox is my second suspect. His reasoning about Alduskkel doesn't make sense and seems almost arbitrary at points. I'm not fond of his general posting style either.

Also, as a general note, we are close to lylo. With 3 scum in the game and 8 players left, after a mislynch and a NK, then it's 3 scum remaining in a 6 player game. So we need to be careful about our votes.

[Netlava]

Ythan could have investigated Socrates also - just to put that out there.

I don't think a massclaim is necessary, though, as it wouldn't change much regarding dr.

[Netlava]

Well, I'd like to hear more from Zajnet and Prox, who coincidentally have not given their suspicions yet. At this point, I'm ready to go ahead and

Vote: Zajnet

[Netlava]

That puts me at L-2. I don't see a point to claim yet because I still don't see a solid case against me, but don't lynch me without letting me claim.

Lack of scumhunting, for one.

[Netlava]

Alright, let's do this.

Unvote, vote: drmyshottyizsik

*crosses fingers*

[Netlava]

?

[Netlava]

Yeah, that was a hammer. Too bad you forgot you claimed backup doctor earlier.

[Netlava]

Okay

[Netlava]

I think this is an attempt to misrep the situation to get townie points, as we are not "close" to lylo, we are at lylo.
Granted, if the vig hits scum tonight, we won't lose, but we are still technically at LyLo today, plus, he doesn't mention the vig at all in that sentence.

Also, does anyone actually believe this?? Where exactly is the misrepresentation?

[Netlava]

Prox should say something first as he managed to skate through D2 without saying anything. Right now, my top suspect is Prox for lurking through D2.

The other scum, I think, would be ekim. He's also been quite lurky himself.

Also, it should go without saying that voting rashly should not happen but it happens way too often anyway. And also, I think a massclaim would be appropriate now.

[Netlava]

The reasoning for a massclaim is that we can confirm the doctor, whereas running up a person and then having someone counterclaim is less clear because scum may counterclaim in lylo.

You know, looking back over the game, it's really hard to see why a scumgroup NOT including Netlava would kill Zajnet. I suppose there's the 'He's very scummy so unlikely to be protected' factor. I don't see any vig tells.

Reasoning for this?

[Netlava]

All this theorizing on why Zajnet got nightkilled is nice and all, but I'm not buying it. I think it's a stretch to theorize that a certain player is a certain role on a certain team as fringe theories are less likely to be accurate than general assessments of scumminess.

Not to mention Fonz's theory on how only I would NK Zajnet as scum is completely incorrect. If I were scum, I wouldn't NK Zajnet because he's a mislynch target, and I had expressed suspicion of him during the day. If I knew that he was a vig, nightkilling wouldn't change all that much as the vig kill would still go through (as it did). What would stop a kill on the other hand? Roleblocking. Zajnet getting NKed doesn't explain anything in my opinion, other than that scum made a poor nightkilling choice imo. Unless, of course, the "townier" looking players are actually scum. *shrug*

Speaking of general assessments, I think Prox's lack of activity is scummier than any so-called theory that has been conjured up so far. And also, I don't follow ekim's claim that Prox seems "town" because of some farfetched theory and Fonz's claim that ekim seems "town" because he successfully swang a mislynch. Doesn't make sense. I'm a bit wary of Fonz's defense of ekim, as defending other players is something that scum tend to do more often.

[Netlava]

Also, Prox, claim first. The doc isn't saving the game. A mislynch today and there's no night phase.

[Netlava]

I'm vanilla. Prox, next.

[Netlava]

Ok, so ekim's not scum so... I'm not really sure who's scum now, so I'll need to look things over.

[Netlava]

Prox, what do you mean by attacking "not-Netlava." It isn't clear what you mean.

[Netlava]

I had been suspicious of shotty for the majority of the game. I was just unsure how to handle his claim. Plus, the hammer isn't more or less scummy than any other vote on that wagon.

Also, about the meta thing, hindsight is 20/20. It should become clear enough eventually.

[Netlava]

Because shotty was being scummy, and I needed to know if he was scum or not. Plus, I was leaning towards him as my last suspect.

[Netlava]

It's quite clear what I mean. I think dr was just as good of a choice as any.

[Netlava]

Vote: yabbaguy

I feel kinda bad, as I should be lynched

[Netlava]

I'm fine with the quicktopic being posted.