Open 236 - Pamplona Mafia (C9++) Game Over

[Prox]

Hello, everyone. I'll go do my "New Replacement" thing now.

[Prox]

VOTE: vote: kyle99. Please don't lurk and flake this game.

Priceless.

[Prox]

Sigh. Hello.

So I didn't have time to finish my first-post but I saved it as a draft and will finish it when I get back on a desktop.

I was going to go ahead and vote for someone, but I really need this first-post to get started. It helps me centtalize my thoughts, get interested in the game, and not cause a mislynch of myself later on.

So I'll be back tomorrow, when I get a computer and completely acquainted with the game, and then hopefully help the town to victory. Sorry for not finishing sooner.

[Prox]

Just to note, shotty's lack of content is probably related to the fact that he's started 15 games since becoming active in mid-early-July.

[Prox]

Never said it was.

That thing about shotty asking for meta surprised me- that's a first for him, period.

I'll be looking at your meta, also, however. Since that was brought to my attention..

Speaking of which, again, Ythan uses his spoonfeeding excuse in both alliances in the same way he's done Today. If you're going to call him scummy, don't do it through that.

I don't want to go any further until I get my Desktop back.

[Prox]

Oh no. I'm surrounded by paranoid superiors...

You'll have to forgive my tone this first post. It's far too upbeat and casual for you guys. But it'll be my only one like that. I promise. I need it to get

into

the game, you know?

unvote, vote netlava

I can't think of any protown benefit of answering that particular question. I can think of a problem (as Al pointed out). This suggests Netlava didn't really think about it very much, and just went for go with the flow approach.

I like this logic.

FoS Netlava

Dr, you're scum. Your hop onto Net is disingenuous and your demand that he provide meta to dispute it as well. Beef, how can you suspect just me OR Net if the basis of your suspicion is that we're both scum?

(vote: drmyshottyizsik?)

Why am I scummy? And ythan, I like meta reading people

You. I found this thread and the Mod's sig while I was building your wiki. Speaking of which, I am not amused.

Unvote, vote: drmyshottyizsik

Yeah, I don't believe that one can make assessments on my playstyle that quickly. If you really like meta so much, you would have learned about the search feature by now.

Well, pro or antitown is an opinion, so can't really be a mischaracterisation.

Well, the wording kinda bothered me at first, but I can see what people are having problems with now.

I'll make you a wiki. That will solve your problem.

Why am I scummy? And ythan, I like meta reading people

That's fine. I called your in-thread request for it disingenuous.

Lol. Firefox quickly defined that as "lacking in candor". I'm so glad I didn't pay for that app.

Me too, but of course it was on me.

So is my name really that annoying to type out?

Yes. ~~NS

Yes!
Trust me, I know. But I've memorized it O.o

the oppertunistic vote, so im kind of a bias voice.

@ NS It's not that hard!!! G & H is the only one who ever spells it out though

@ NS It's not that hard!!! G & H is the only one who ever spells it out though

@ NS It's not that hard!!!

@ NS

The irony is amusing.

I chose a really short name so this wouldn't happen. If it ever does, I will likely rage.

Then you don't believe me. What am I supposed to freak out about it or try to prove to you what I was thinking? No. I was speculating on the setup and thinking about the one kill.

Oh. I thought you were trying to make scum slip :/
Thank you for clarifying.

Knowing how players in this game would act as a vigilante, a role whose actions are immediately apparent if successful, would aid in my speculation. I was trying to narrow it down but in this complicated setup that really won't be fruitful for some time.

No, finding the number of players who would vig would narrow down the people who would be a vig and out them to the mafia. That is extremely anti-town.

Yea1!1

No. What makes you say that?

The reason you gave for voting me is a lie. Had i not said that very plainly?

No.

Okay. What makes it disingenuous?

It does not. Read. As genuine. Next.

It was hard to understand this. I took it as: "It does not! Read the stinkin' thread! ..." At that point I got confused and read harder. Stop making me do that.

Ythan, please answer the question on everyone's lips, which is to explain why you suggested asking everyone if they liked vigging N0 in the first place. What were you trying to achieve?

You're only asking him to reiterate his scummy answer.

I'm usually at least somewhat sarcastic. I have no idea if I'm being particularly sarcastic/cutting in this game. I don't have a sarcasm meter Firefox add-on that tells me if I've reached my sarcasm quota for a particular post.

I did. It didn't work well.

I have

directly

referred back to such instances on at least one occasion. I'm not going to keep spoonfeeding you because you can't bother read through the five page thread.

This must happen to you a lot ^^

This isn't an issue of pride it's an issue of the same stupid anti-town behavior I see all the time when people can't read a thread to answer their own damn questions.

Bingo. Have you considered the possibility that the problem isn't caused by the stupid players?

You don't need a dictionary to know that disingenuous = not being genuine. So your logic is one big circle of he's scummy because he's scummy.

Oh. Well, then. >.>

I did not say he is disingenuous being he's not being genuine, actually.

Um... (Ythan said:)"It does not. Read. As genuine. Next." So I misread this?

tautology?

Okay, now I'm annoyed. I thought I was smart.

Ugh. Spoonfeed mode. It, what you quoted, is not what you, Alduskkel, said that I, Ythan, said, tautology.

Its close enough.

You foolish fool. How many times do I have to say gut. Gut gut gut. Gut gut. Intestines bowels. Sphincter.

Same difference. Your gut says it isn't genuine.

Reading Ythan is kinda hard since... y'know, people don't normally admit that there is absolutely no protown reason for their actions.

I should start doing this. Makes me less accountable.

I have trouble with ending pointless discussions on my own. Why are you still asking irrelevant questions instead of ones that might contribute to something useful? If you think that last question had some purpose other than keeping your post count up, please enlighten me.

Oh my.

Al, then dr.

Please don't call me Pr.

Yab I believe that Dr's request for my suspects was an attempt to appear active. However, I'll give you a top scummies list.

He's been here for a month and /inned to 15 games.

The votecount has not changed.

@Mod: Could you post the vote counts anyways when this happens? Makes things easier. More visible.

Unless you can make some meager attempt to show where I'm hiding something you're blowing smoke. Despite all the outlandish obfuscation in this thread I have seen no attempt to explain how I'm actually hiding anything. It's on the verge of getting pathetic.

Maybe the reason you wanted to help the scum find out who the vig(s) might be?
Hidden by your general posting style?

One, no. I had already posted the answers to his inane questions. That more or less invalidates the next few lines. However, two, even if it didn't, your leap to "hiding something" verges on stupid. You already have a conclusion you like and you're making a wild leap from what evidence you have (although, see point one) to that conclusion. As for your discomfort about my response to his "random" vote, that is almost LESS than ZERO percent relevant somehow. Are you just looking for filler to stretch the post out or do you think that actually helps your case?

Speaking of which, how did the answer read as not genuine? What was going on in your head to reach this conclusion?

Furthermore, I reread and did an ISO, and I'm not at all liking how overly defensive he was about Alduskkel's RANDOM vote.

2) Overly defensive is a scum argument. Also, to my mind, he wasn't defensive, he was attacking- trying to place pressure on a minor point to get the game going. This to my mind is slightly townish, as it reads as trying to create an argument to get the game going. I've also attacked players in the past for seemingly being unable to keep their story straight about their reasons for their random votes.

...or at least a weak one.

FoS Beefster

(I'll come back to this. Maybe.)

Also, to clarify my stance on drmyshottyizsik, I'm a bit suspicious of his meta incident and his fluff, and he's also been quite lurkish.

Maybe I'm being naive, but none of these seem to make shotty seem scummy to me.

PROX!!!!!!!! HI!

Such a pro-town post.

I don't think there's actually a scum motivation for being obnoxious, so I don't see the attacks on Ythan.

The attacks are based on more than that.

A

bit

more.

Ok

here

goes my thoughts on what has happened lately.
Dry is lurking and being

useless

.
My opinion on beef is that he is dumb and VI'ish
I think the vote count has it right, Ythan and Net are pretty scummy
I think no one should be lynched

until

we hear more from Dry Ald and Ekim

Who is dry again? At first, before looking at the author a second time (bad short-term memory I have), I thought you were talking about you. O.o
Your opinion on beef is inaccurate. And harsh.
Why do you think Ythan and Net are scummy? List. Be accurate.

Also my views havent changed to much

Really? More on this later.

yep

...and?

He was attacking a totally non-threatening random vote. It got the activity going, but that's not necessarily pro-town.

Weird, yes. But scummy? What was scum-Ythan thinking by both catalyzing discussion and bringing attention to himself? Since when is getting activity going a bad thing?

Funny, I found Beefster's case contrived. That's why I, y'know, voted him.

Weird. I guess I missed that.

I just learned that I have to use a spell-check to get the world weird right O.o

***

I don't like
Netlava
Ythan
Drmyshottyizsik
Beefster
or this one guy who's post I never quoted for some reason and thus forgot about.

Time to narrow down things. To make a serious post.

[Prox]

Prox, are you a Mastin alt?

No. [joke]Mastin is a Prox alt.[/joke]

What made you think so?

***

So another more serious post to occur when I get Desktop back. Then I vote.

[Prox]

Um...thanks. I believe in straightforwardness.

[Prox]

Like I said in the beginning- that's my First-Post. It'll never happen again.

[Prox]

PREVIEW EDIT: Oh my. This hasn't happened before. But don't worry, my playstyle isn't anti-town in any obvious functions. Except:

I do not role claim at L-1 unless sure of a hammer

. Remember that for later. And, like I said, my first-post is more for me than for you, though in this way indirectly for you.

vote shotty

: you get my first vote because you might be town, but right now you suck and look...disingenuous. But I read you as a lazy town who doesn't want to go through the effort of trying. Fix this.

@Netlava:

No, I don't disagree.

Why not?

Blatantly anti-town? That seems like a mischaracterization. I was about to answer the question, but then decided to see if there were any objections first.

That doesn't mean you should support it the proposal. I call this bull.

@drmyshottizsik

What made you think that it was a playstyle issue?

Has shotty answered this yet? If he has, I might.

EDIT: Shotty should answer this question.

***

@Beefster:

I'm not complaining. I'm just saying where I've been. I wanted to post earlier but couldn't.

This makes you seem unnecessarily apprehensive.

I thought I posted pretty recently. Maybe I just didn't feel I had anything to add. Anyway, I've been wanting to say this for a while but forgot.

I'm not liking how Ythan is refusing to (basically) defend himself calling it spoonfeeding. Recapping is NOT spoonfeeding. I'd say spoonfeeding is more like building someone else's case for them. You're obviously hiding something.

Could you elaborate what Ythan is obviously hiding by not recapping?

@Ythan: When Alduskkel was pressing you for answers, you refused to answer him by calling it spoonfeeding. In reality you never actually answered the questions. I think it was YOU who was too lazy to read the thread and quote yourself for answers. Therefore you are hiding something.

Furthermore, I reread and did an ISO, and I'm not at all liking how overly defensive he was about Alduskkel's RANDOM vote.

My vote stands.

This post doesn't make sense. So you do think Ythan was just dodging the question or that he was too lazy to go back and find them or too... Ythanic (pronounced EE-Than-ic; term soon to be patented)... to realize that he never answered the question?

2) Overly defensive is a scum argument. Also, to my mind, he wasn't defensive, he was attacking- trying to place pressure on a minor point to get the game going. This to my mind is slightly townish, as it reads as trying to create an argument to get the game going. I've also attacked players in the past for seemingly being unable to keep their story straight about their reasons for their random votes.

He was attacking a totally non-threatening random vote. It got the activity going, but that's not necessarily pro-town.

I'll restate this in this now-serious post:

Weird, yes. But scummy? What was scum-Ythan thinking by both catalyzing discussion and bringing attention to himself? Since when is getting activity going a bad thing?

Clarify: You haven't explained sufficiently the reason that Ythan's attack on a nonthreatening random vote is scummy.

***

@Shotty:

And ythan, I like meta reading people

Since when??

Yes, either he is scum or his playstyle is anti town. I would like to meta read him. NETLAVA SEND ME A LINK OF YOU PLAYING TOWN AND MAFIA PLEASE

His whole play-style? Clarify.

Also, what were you hoping to find in Netlava's recent games? I think I know, but I don't want to assume.

Ythan, are you scum?

Why did you ask this? The tone and setting seems serious.

I don't know, maybe he is your partner and you didn't want him to fall through the cracks too early, but when you realized he was just a dumb ass you backed off

I got an entirely different read from that altercation you speak of.

Also: this view seems to suggest that you believe beef is scummy. But then you call him a VI (again, harsh). What is it?

Ok gere goes my thoughts on what has happened lately.
Dry is lurking and being unuseful.
My opinion on beef is that he is dumb and VI'ish
I think the vote count has it right, Ythan and Net are pretty scummy
I think no one should be lynched untill we hear more from Dry Ald and Ekim

This sounds like Good & Honest, not playing the game but still a part of it. You aren't G&H: PLAY THE GAME.

Also my views havent changed to much

So I'm going to have to assume that reading netlava's meta didn't change your opinion of him? Tell us what you found.

***

@Ythan:

Al, provide a reason for your vote on me.

Why did you ask for this?

Why didn't you believe Al's answer?

Before anyone answers, does anyone disagree with asking everyone what their policy is on shooting N0 as a vig?

Why did you ask this question?

Insistent on not accompanying his vote with any kind of random vote stage flavor, yet then felt it necessary to question me regarding my brief entry post, despite the fact that some players had not even posted and in fact still have not. Inquisitive but not about anything useful;...

You're being inquisitive about his random vote due to the fact that it has no flavor. That is useful? How?

Dr, you're scum. Your hop onto Net is disingenuous and your demand that he provide meta to dispute it as well. Beef, how can you suspect just me OR Net if the basis of your suspicion is that we're both scum?

If Dr is scum, why don't you vote for him?

You sure are dodgy about the simplest possible question in the game.

Why do you insist that Al make up a reason for his random vote? What is going through your head?

Knowing how players in this game would act as a vigilante, a role whose actions are immediately apparent if successful, would aid in my speculation. I was trying to narrow it down but in this complicated setup that really won't be fruitful for some time.

THERE IT IS! THE REASON YTHAN ROLEFISHED. HE ACTUALLY DID ANSWER THE QUESTION!

How is it protown to publicly narrow down the possibilities of who the vigilante(s) might be?

Also, wouldn't it have been easier to just go ahead and quote the post you knew you already made or at least restate what you had already said rather "I've already said this"?
It would seem to me like you were trying to bog down the game by being so stubborn if it weren't for the fact that you do the same thing as scum and town.

Ythan, please answer the question on everyone's lips, which is to explain why you suggested asking everyone if they liked vigging N0 in the first place. What were you trying to achieve?

I have answered this. I was speculating on my own about the nature of the setup. It was unwise for me to ask that question but it did not occur to me at the time.

What would you said if I called this backtracking?

And what makes you think that they're disingenuous?

This is a dumb question. You are either being intentionally obtuse or you are just obtuse. I don't trust your inquiry because I don't trust your inquiry. It's how it reads to me. I will not attempt to further break this down.

That's not good enough. If it's just gut, you have to say what in the post triggerred the gut. People don't get bad vibes from someone without ANY sort of provocation. You should be able to express yourself better than that.

Don't you understand why people sometimes ask you a question more than once?

I have

directly

referred back to such instances on at least one occasion. I'm not going to keep spoonfeeding you because you can't bother read through the five page thread.

No, you haven't. Sorry. You haven't once quoted yourself in one of your posts. The closest thing to this happening was when Fonz asked you about your reason for rolefishing and you backtracked.

I was uncertain, which is why I asked. I had a hunch it might not be ideal so instead of coming out and asking I did that.

This reminds me of Netlava not putting much thought into his posts.

blah blah

Semi-open setup means that I don't know what the setup is but I can figure it out, to an extent. I want to know as much as possible. I was speculating in the literal sense. In my head. There is no why. It's what I was doing.

The Fonz has a solid point there, Ythan. What were you hoping to accomplish with your question?

Nice contribution.

But you didn't speculate about how rolefishing would make the town's vigilante(s) more obvious?
And you could go ahead and answer the question by attacking Zajnet at the same time.

Al, then dr.

Could you list why?

***

Ythan seems strange but right now I have to clear out some discrepancies before voting him.

And Netlava/Beef are #2

[Prox]

Ah...I knew I should have used spoilers.

But it's more concise and directed.

[Prox]

EBWOP: And I don't do those often.

[Prox]

I thought it was obvious that he wanted to narrow down who might and might not be vigilante so he could find out the VVVVV's or whatever. Or did I misinterpret?

But could you, ah, wait to respond to the parts of my post directed at specific people until they respond to them?

[Prox]

That's fairer in the second way.

Thx for clarifying about the Vs, also. I haven't payed enough attention to that.

[Prox]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the active lurking topic because I don't consider fencesitting and being V/LA to be active lurking. The beginning of games is always hard for me analytically, so I fencesit a lot, but I do provide opinions and content.

You promised a wall post.

[Prox]

That didn't clear up anything for me.

[Prox]

Again, let me be clear what info I need for you to be perfectly clear on, and that you have NOT made clear in your other posts:

I know that you think that Al lied about the reason for his random vote. It is clear that you got this opinion through gut. But I want to know what made your gut tell you this. What set it off?

I know that you at first thought that your rolefishing would help you with your speculation. But I want to know HOW it would habe helped you. What did you have to gain?

vote Ythan L-2

until I'm satisfied.

[Prox]

Awesome. Thats what I'm talking about.

unvote; vote shotty again

FoS Al

I'll come back to that soon.

[Prox]

[Prox]

Ok, Al needs to address his random vote now.

[Prox]

Well, like I said earlier in my casual post, your lack of attention to the game is comparable to Netlava's.

[Prox]

and there's the possibility that your mistake is an excuse.

[Prox]

Ythan is town, I think.

Also, Al's statements do contradict. Its relatively hard to do eeny-meeny-miney-mo with your eyes closed for starters.

That information alone makes Al's random vote suspicious to me. I have some ideas about why scum might do this, but talking about them might be antitown. However, the result could help us a lot, too, if done right. Thoughts?

And again, I'd rather Al have talked about his random vote before you put your 3 cents in. It would have been more useful in reading him.

[Prox]

Clarify: Could you hold your comments on attacks on other players for after they respond to him, especially if they could help or take the place of the attacked's defense?

[Prox]

Oh. I misread a post. Al is in the clear (sort of), but Ythan is also right in suspecting him (sort of).

Still, Ythan seems more likely town than Al, but only because of his content. However, Ythan and his immediate suspicion of Al's random vote still confuses me. It could suggest several things.

We need to start moving focus to where focus is due.

[Prox]

which part are you addressing?

The point is that I see you as town, but some questions still remain. These need not be asked atm.

The answer to the Q of "Who is scummier; the asker or the answerer?" is now clear.

unvote; vote netlava

[Prox]

Everyone who hasn't answered my wall-post(s).

[Prox]

you know...I replaced kyle.

[Prox]

I hate having my vote on someone w/ a LOA.

unvote; vote beefster

Oh hey Zajnet, could you please change your vote to someone who is scum? Or at least a different scum? That'd help.

Shotty's probably going to flake out.

[Prox]

@mod has shotty become prodded or ready to be prodded yet?

[Prox]

Oh. Shotty

did

post earlier. Sort of.

[Prox]

Oh shotty. Haven't you read the thread? I've explained my vote.

As for you, we really need more from you. You're doing very little.

[Prox]

Sorry guys, some bizarre circumstances recently came up.

I'd like ekiM to take more of a stance on players. Is Netlava still your top suspect?

Nothing about Ythan's back and forth with The Fonz makes him look an more town to me.

@Fonz: In other games I've seen you try to get the town to agree to certain things when the game starts. Why didn't you do that here?

Really?

Why do you find Ythan scummy again?

[Prox]

I feel ignored.

[Prox]

Back from vacation. Need to catch up a fair bit. Just reached the stupid stuff over my random vote. Point is, I closed my eyes and pointed. Then I eenie meenie miney moed, changing my finger position each time.

I can't deny this, but I don't believe you. It seems like you backtracked to cover your contradiction. You can't change my mind about this.

[Prox]

Still don't believe that's what happened.

[Prox]

I have my thoughts.

[Prox]

Ok. It's time now for restatements.

All of the following has been said before:

Spoiler: Restatements so People Will Read and Answer. Specifically: Netlava, Shotty, Beefster

PREVIEW EDIT: Oh my. This hasn't happened before. But don't worry, my playstyle isn't anti-town in any obvious functions. Except:

I do not role claim at L-1 unless sure of a hammer

. Remember that for later. And, like I said, my first-post is more for me than for you, though in this way indirectly for you.

vote shotty

: you get my first vote because you might be town, but right now you suck and look...disingenuous. But I read you as a lazy town who doesn't want to go through the effort of trying. Fix this.

@Netlava:

No, I don't disagree.

Why not?

Blatantly anti-town? That seems like a mischaracterization. I was about to answer the question, but then decided to see if there were any objections first.

That doesn't mean you should support it the proposal. I call this bull.

@drmyshottizsik

What made you think that it was a playstyle issue?

Has shotty answered this yet? If he has, I might.

EDIT: Shotty should answer this question.

***

@Beefster:

I'm not complaining. I'm just saying where I've been. I wanted to post earlier but couldn't.

This makes you seem unnecessarily apprehensive.

I thought I posted pretty recently. Maybe I just didn't feel I had anything to add. Anyway, I've been wanting to say this for a while but forgot.

I'm not liking how Ythan is refusing to (basically) defend himself calling it spoonfeeding. Recapping is NOT spoonfeeding. I'd say spoonfeeding is more like building someone else's case for them. You're obviously hiding something.

Could you elaborate what Ythan is obviously hiding by not recapping?

@Ythan: When Alduskkel was pressing you for answers, you refused to answer him by calling it spoonfeeding. In reality you never actually answered the questions. I think it was YOU who was too lazy to read the thread and quote yourself for answers. Therefore you are hiding something.

Furthermore, I reread and did an ISO, and I'm not at all liking how overly defensive he was about Alduskkel's RANDOM vote.

My vote stands.

This post doesn't make sense. So you do think Ythan was just dodging the question or that he was too lazy to go back and find them or too... Ythanic (pronounced EE-Than-ic; term soon to be patented)... to realize that he never answered the question?

2) Overly defensive is a scum argument. Also, to my mind, he wasn't defensive, he was attacking- trying to place pressure on a minor point to get the game going. This to my mind is slightly townish, as it reads as trying to create an argument to get the game going. I've also attacked players in the past for seemingly being unable to keep their story straight about their reasons for their random votes.

He was attacking a totally non-threatening random vote. It got the activity going, but that's not necessarily pro-town.

I'll restate this in this now-serious post:

Weird, yes. But scummy? What was scum-Ythan thinking by both catalyzing discussion and bringing attention to himself? Since when is getting activity going a bad thing?

Clarify: You haven't explained sufficiently the reason that Ythan's attack on a nonthreatening random vote is scummy.

***

@Shotty:

And ythan, I like meta reading people

Since when??

Yes, either he is scum or his playstyle is anti town. I would like to meta read him. NETLAVA SEND ME A LINK OF YOU PLAYING TOWN AND MAFIA PLEASE

His whole play-style? Clarify.

Also, what were you hoping to find in Netlava's recent games? I think I know, but I don't want to assume.

Ythan, are you scum?

Why did you ask this? The tone and setting seems serious.

I don't know, maybe he is your partner and you didn't want him to fall through the cracks too early, but when you realized he was just a dumb ass you backed off

I got an entirely different read from that altercation you speak of.

Also: this view seems to suggest that you believe beef is scummy. But then you call him a VI (again, harsh). What is it?

Ok gere goes my thoughts on what has happened lately.
Dry is lurking and being unuseful.
My opinion on beef is that he is dumb and VI'ish
I think the vote count has it right, Ythan and Net are pretty scummy
I think no one should be lynched untill we hear more from Dry Ald and Ekim

This sounds like Good & Honest, not playing the game but still a part of it. You aren't G&H: PLAY THE GAME.

Also my views havent changed to much

So I'm going to have to assume that reading netlava's meta didn't change your opinion of him? Tell us what you found.

***

@Ythan:

Al, provide a reason for your vote on me.

Why did you ask for this?

Why didn't you believe Al's answer?

Before anyone answers, does anyone disagree with asking everyone what their policy is on shooting N0 as a vig?

Why did you ask this question?

Insistent on not accompanying his vote with any kind of random vote stage flavor, yet then felt it necessary to question me regarding my brief entry post, despite the fact that some players had not even posted and in fact still have not. Inquisitive but not about anything useful;...

You're being inquisitive about his random vote due to the fact that it has no flavor. That is useful? How?

Dr, you're scum. Your hop onto Net is disingenuous and your demand that he provide meta to dispute it as well. Beef, how can you suspect just me OR Net if the basis of your suspicion is that we're both scum?

If Dr is scum, why don't you vote for him?

You sure are dodgy about the simplest possible question in the game.

Why do you insist that Al make up a reason for his random vote? What is going through your head?

Knowing how players in this game would act as a vigilante, a role whose actions are immediately apparent if successful, would aid in my speculation. I was trying to narrow it down but in this complicated setup that really won't be fruitful for some time.

THERE IT IS! THE REASON YTHAN ROLEFISHED. HE ACTUALLY DID ANSWER THE QUESTION!

How is it protown to publicly narrow down the possibilities of who the vigilante(s) might be?

Also, wouldn't it have been easier to just go ahead and quote the post you knew you already made or at least restate what you had already said rather "I've already said this"?
It would seem to me like you were trying to bog down the game by being so stubborn if it weren't for the fact that you do the same thing as scum and town.

Ythan, please answer the question on everyone's lips, which is to explain why you suggested asking everyone if they liked vigging N0 in the first place. What were you trying to achieve?

I have answered this. I was speculating on my own about the nature of the setup. It was unwise for me to ask that question but it did not occur to me at the time.

What would you said if I called this backtracking?

And what makes you think that they're disingenuous?

This is a dumb question. You are either being intentionally obtuse or you are just obtuse. I don't trust your inquiry because I don't trust your inquiry. It's how it reads to me. I will not attempt to further break this down.

That's not good enough. If it's just gut, you have to say what in the post triggerred the gut. People don't get bad vibes from someone without ANY sort of provocation. You should be able to express yourself better than that.

Don't you understand why people sometimes ask you a question more than once?

I have

directly

referred back to such instances on at least one occasion. I'm not going to keep spoonfeeding you because you can't bother read through the five page thread.

No, you haven't. Sorry. You haven't once quoted yourself in one of your posts. The closest thing to this happening was when Fonz asked you about your reason for rolefishing and you backtracked.

I was uncertain, which is why I asked. I had a hunch it might not be ideal so instead of coming out and asking I did that.

This reminds me of Netlava not putting much thought into his posts.

blah blah

Semi-open setup means that I don't know what the setup is but I can figure it out, to an extent. I want to know as much as possible. I was speculating in the literal sense. In my head. There is no why. It's what I was doing.

The Fonz has a solid point there, Ythan. What were you hoping to accomplish with your question?

Nice contribution.

But you didn't speculate about how rolefishing would make the town's vigilante(s) more obvious?
And you could go ahead and answer the question by attacking Zajnet at the same time.

Al, then dr.

Could you list why?

***

Ythan seems strange but right now I have to clear out some discrepancies before voting him.

And Netlava/Beef are #2

Spoiler: Just for Zajnet

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the active lurking topic because I don't consider fencesitting and being V/LA to be active lurking. The beginning of games is always hard for me analytically, so I fencesit a lot, but I do provide opinions and content.

You promised a wall post.

[Prox]

Well, which are you suggesting? 1,2,or3?

[Prox]

I think talking about those things would constitute as rolefishing, and help the mafia. Do you disagree?

Because, really, can't you guess why scum might "randomly" vote a player on the Day after N0?

The case on Al isn't currently strong enough to get him lynched today. And there's more than one scum. I'd rather have a known scum alive N1 than an unknown one; this game has a vig in it.

[Prox]

Sigh.

1. I most likely won't claim at all.
2. It suggests that Ythan knows things. Things we don't. And I believe he's Town.
3. Questions about Ythan's immediate suspicion of Al's vote.
4. Already explained.
5. Al may be sending a signal to his buds. Probably signifying either he's townie or PR.

*

When I inquired to Ythan if I should speculate about this, he declined.

*

I already explained that the case on Al is too weak. There is little I can say more about it, and you find my thoughts implausible already. And I'm not going to advocate the lynch of someone based on one thing, especially something that can't be proven. But it only takes one to vig, and he can make that choice.

And I've already explained why I've held speculations back.

[Prox]

Woah woah woah!

Beefster answered his Q's. He is not scum.

unvote

Shotty, your voting pattern is suspect. Also that thing about G&H is true. But it is constructive criticism. Take it positively.

Al, probability has no effect on actuality. You didn't RV anyone else: you RV'd Ythan. That is a fallacy. Hm.

It's Ythan immediately addressing your RV that is telling.

[Prox]

Ah, I can't see bolded text on this browser.

[Prox]

Hm...if Al

is

a Spy and my suspicions are correct, then there are 3 scum.

That would have to be Netlava and someone else...

If Al really did just make a little mistake as town and backtracked to fix it, then there are at least 2 non-Al scum anyways.

Netlava is currently the most likely scum here...leaving there to be 1 more...Maybe Drmyshottyizsik?

I need to read the thread some more.

For now,

vote netlava

[Prox]

Hi, Netlava, welcome back!

[Prox]

Farfetched, but possible. What were you thinking, then?

[Prox]

Sigh. I hate when I look like an idiot.

I don't think specifically the RV could signify a power; it could also signify vanilla. But I do think it signifies something. And I have no other backing than the thread and my gut to tell me so. And my gut ain't all that. That is all, end of story. Let's lynch someone scummier today.

Shotty or Netlava, now. Though I think the Netlava wagon is stronger. If shotty isn't just an idiot and is badscum, then we'll still be a bit safer at Night. Also, I find myself being careful whenever I lynch an idiot.

[Prox]

Right. I find that the key to dealing with VI's is looking at their reasons for doing their actions. They may be bad, but they can look legit.

[Prox]

I've already said, haven't I?

[Prox]

Sigh. Now I can see why Ythan gets so stubborn about going back and repeating himself.

Are you referring to 344?

No. I guess I'll look for it

Prox is making a plethora of bizarre speculations such as claiming Ythan is town near-baselessly and basically reaching conclusions whose bases I don't fully comprehend. I will keep in mind that perhaps these are raw newbie thoughts, so I'm not ready to call this a basing of information on informed facts (i.e. with Mafia-given information), but it's something to look at. I'd also like him to restate his Netlava thoughts or point out a post where he stated such, just to double-check on him.

Sigh. I'm not that newbie. Ythan answered my questions and my gut told me the answers were valid. I guess I'll find out this game if my gut has any worth on the internet.

I don't know how in blazes Prox finds a contradiction (scummy??????) of all things nestled inside a random vote's rationale, which is sort of an oxymoronic phrase IMO.

Fine fine fine. I'll just drop it and call it paranoia. But I know what I read. To me it seems Al accidentally noted two different methods of random voting, and then backtracked to combine the two. But fine. I'll just ignore it.

***

And ignoring that, Netlava and Shotty are still the most scummy.

This has been restated already.

@Netlava:

No, I don't disagree.

Why not?

Blatantly anti-town? That seems like a mischaracterization. I was about to answer the question, but then decided to see if there were any objections first.

That doesn't mean you should support it the proposal. I call this bull.

@drmyshottizsik

What made you think that it was a playstyle issue?

Has shotty answered this yet? If he has, I might.

EDIT: Shotty should answer this question.

Sigh.

1. I most likely won't claim at all.
2. It suggests that Ythan knows things. Things we don't. And I believe he's Town.
3. Questions about Ythan's immediate suspicion of Al's vote.
4. Already explained.
5. Al may be sending a signal to his buds. Probably signifying either he's townie or PR.

*

When I inquired to Ythan if I should speculate about this, he declined.

*

I already explained that the case on Al is too weak. There is little I can say more about it, and you find my thoughts implausible already. And I'm not going to advocate the lynch of someone based on one thing, especially something that can't be proven. But it only takes one to vig, and he can make that choice.

And I've already explained why I've held speculations back.

:S

[Prox]

Sigh.

Can we focus on the whole scumhunting thing now?

[Prox]

Naw, I don't do that kind of thing.

Top suspicions, yabb?

[Prox]

I'm going to take the risk of seeming like a noob to ask what you meant by camouflaging in that post.

[Prox]

It could be mistaken as rolefishing if I just blurt things out like that.

[Prox]

An active lurker?

I don't think it a lie, though, nor does it matter the reason shotty left the site for the time he did.

[Prox]

My post wasnt trying to imply that no one was looking for scum, but more that what was going on was noy really helping.

[Prox]

vote shotty

Act.

[Prox]

^^Crap. I think I mixed this up with another game. tumescence was never in this game, was he?

Nope.

[Prox]

Shotty is at L-1 I think.

[Prox]

Wait for claim and such first.

Shotty, your NEXT post needs to be good. And probably include a claim.

[Prox]

Beefster, are you unvoting to stall quickhammer, or because you confused games?

[Prox]

Ok here is my case on beefster.
All he does in this game is active lurk untill this post.

Ythan- My reasons against you and Netlava are the same as the others. It was purely speculation at the time, based mostly on yabbaguy's post.
I would like to say that I'm becoming increasingly uncomfortable both with the way you've reacted to questions and answers, as well as your reasonless rolefishing.
VOTE: Ythan

First off he says that he has a case on both of them, but he doesn't. Then he admits to playing follow the leader. Then he says he doesnt like that people are asking and answering question. Here I was already HoSing him.

I already voted you and I'm moving on[/b]
I hate this because he is acting like once you vote someone you shouldn't have to back it up.

Then he active lurks and posts long fluff and quote filled post, meaning basicly nothing.

Then he gets very confused, OMGUS's me, gets confused on which game he is in again, and unvote.

Beef is
1. Active Lurking
2. Playing anti-town
3. Doesn't want people asking questions
4. Dumb
5. confused
6. OMGUS'ing this late in the game
7.Still confused.

Oh and I

Claim: Back up Doctor (nurse)

Good job.

Thoughts when Marathon ends.

[Prox]

There's a random line in Ekim's post...

[Prox]

Sorry everyone, my house got hit by lightening, and I just got a new computer today.

Seems legitimate. Who would lie about something like that?

SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO LURK. Was this a serious question?

Sigh.

Can we focus on the whole scumhunting thing now?

Scummy. Everyone posting is attempting to find scum (or lying if they are scum).

Unvote
Vote: Ythan

either you are just scimming the thread or you don't want people to start really scum hunting. Yes of course we all want to know who the scum is, but not everyone is doing so, not even you.

You're a fucking dumbass, no offense.

You could be a little nicer.

[Prox]

unvote

. Sorry ^^

[Prox]

I guess I'd hammer if the time came.

Sorry, just finished marathoning, need to re-read a bit.

[Prox]

Wth heck is wrong with Dry-Fit? Either he's barely trying, or he's trying hard to look like he's trying.

[Prox]

Mmmmmm...you'll need to claim, yes.

[Prox]

Wait. Nvm. I dont thinl Ill hammer, at least.

[Prox]

Dry hasn't done anything scummy, except for his activity, and I have to trust OOG excuses like that. If Dry turns out to be lying, I'll never forgive him, but that's that.

[Prox]

I don't usually find OMGUS a good tell anyways. What's the scum motivation for it?

While Dry's point seems...flat, I can't help but think Beefster was opportunistic in his vote for Dry-fit.

vote Beefster

I mean, something like saying "trying" instead of "pretending" is a weak reason for a vote.

[Prox]

Hm...no, I don't think it's OMGUS.

[Prox]

Hurry up...

[Prox]

FoS: Prox

because he calls Town reads baselessly and has a way of questioning that's more white noise than anything. He's tossed out a lot of questions, but I haven't seen him follow up on them much. I consider this a scumtell because it's like scum throwing as many darts as they can at the Town until one manages to stick. If it doesn't, forget it and try another. I think the contribution from his end has been rather hollow.

I disagree. I followed most, if not all, of my questions until they were sufficiently answered.

LOA for today and maybe tomorrow.

[Prox]

Please read Zajnet's ISO. Things to notice while you're reading it is the fact that he seems very laid-back while we're scumhunting, but when it comes to determining the setup, he's very into that and how to deal with your Nurse claim etc. etc. etc.

Prox- my issue is that you're very swingy with your suspicions and that you're willing to question anyone on a whim having no clear stance on who you find scummy. Just from your ISO page 3, I notice you start by saying "Act, shotty", then it's "wth is with Dry-fit's lurking", then "Beefster's being opportunistic"

Obviously we know the Beef point is wrong, but which is it

really

? Your scumhunting is very opaque and that has me wary.

Um...sorry? I'm just doing what seems useful.

[Prox]

Oh wow. I'm still in this.

So sorry for the inactivity, school started and I was going to flake everything, but I had a change of heart.

I need to read what I missed.

[Prox]

I was wondering how shotty ended up killed. I probably wouldn't have wagoned until shotty claimed VT. But then there's the whole "shotty is drugged" thing...So oh well.

I have to agree that Netlava looks the worst. ekiM summarizes why nicely. I'd have to think hard about #2. I think I can probably narrow it down.

I'm so sorry about taking a back seat right now; time is so short...But I should have more time either this afternoon or the next. Then I'll do a real pbpa.

[Prox]

Feel free to continue now.

[Prox]

I thought I already said that I found it useful.

...but that points out my failure at scumhunting. I wish shotty hadn't been lynched...that happens far too often.

Nonetheless, your issue is a note of my playstyle. If you find it scummy, then...ok. What more is there to say?

[Prox]

@yabba: wishy-washy is a misrep. I asked questions and focused on those answering them as they came and went.

@Netlava: School, sorry.

I like mass-claiming. Seems better. Doc save chance will be very low, especially since the mafia isn't deciding its kill randomly, leaving the chance that the mafia will target the doc, either randomly or thoughtfully.

Makes sense that I claim first, considering I have the least content.

[Prox]

You're misrepping me by saying that I'm misrepping you. How ironic.

Seriously, I'm calling it as I see it, you flipped between three stances in consecutive posts, and that's that. You can't use the word misrep unless you think that I'm doing it on purpose, somehow twisting the situation to look like something entirely different. Here, I'm calling it as I see it, you switched between three stances in consecutive posts (Beef/shotty/Dry-fit), and that's that.

Actually, I can use misrep in any situation where I feel I have been misrepresented, not just when done on purpose.

Mostly, all I did is shift my focus to those who needed it. It's not like I said "This guys is scum!" and then, "No this guy is scum", and then "Oh wait...this guy is scum!". Wishy-washy means that I'm incapable of making a firm decision. I wasn't even making decisions at that point, but instead investigating my leads.

[Prox]

Vanilla, obv.

And...Fonz.

[Prox]

I don't know what to do, sorry. I would attack not-Netlava, but it wouldn't be of much substance. I have no idea who other-scum might be, except that it is not me (or the claimed doc).

[Prox]

Netlava is scum.

[Prox]

*fights urge to call fonz an ass*

[Prox]

*breathes deeply*

I believe netlava is scum. Even remotely guessing who of the remaining 3 is scum is difficult for me. Not who of 2 players is part of a twoman scum team. Sorry for not being clear.

I apoligize for my unprecedented stupidity. However, it seems to go without saying that I don't need your help pointing it out.

Ass.

[Prox]

Am I really doing that bad? We aren't even at a part where I get called out anymore.

VI? Ouch...Maybe I've gotten worse over time..?

Considering replacing out.

[Prox]

Sorry, I just assumed that everyone agreed that Netlava was scummy.

But I do see what you mean. Inaction may be better than bad action, but it's a bad action in itself. I'll post an attack later today, and put more thought in who I think is the other scum.

I really don't want to drag anyone down..

[Prox]

Also, could you explain the difference between D1 and now? I mean, you were willing to attack al over his random vote. Now you're not willing to make a case on anyone with three day's worth of posts and seven flips at your disposal?

Redundant.

[Prox]

And...there's the first vote.

vote Netlava

[Prox]

...yeah, I'll go for it.

Vote: Prox

You know lynches only occur through wagoning?

[Prox]

I'm sorry, but I don't follow. My vote makes me seem scummier or what?

[Prox]

unvote; vote self

I really have to work on my scumplay. Advice?

[Prox]

I think it was that change in my schedule that ruined me. I'll do better next time.

[Prox]

I outsmarted the smart people...

[Prox]

Yes...I'm sorry.

School and a week of inactivity just ruined my drive, and throughout the game I've had to post on my mobile, unable to comfortably investigate anyone...

But in the end, I did some good. But the VI accusations really pissed me off, but I didn't explain my fail in detail for the sake of what I call "the advantage of underestimation". I was planning to get bussed as soon as I read the thread and saw its playerlist.

I would never replace out of a game I've committed a Day to, but my meta hadn't revealed that, yet, so I went for it.

And then I played the gambit by voting netlava. I knew scum wouldn't win if I was who survived to lylo, and doubted that netlava might win, but I had to get lynched in a way that would helped netlava.

I seriously considered claiming scum in anger and calling netlava my scumbuddy as a supergambit. But that seemed...too dangerous. I thought that the current opinion on me as VI (literally ruined my day) would likely make the town decide I was hoping that they would mislynch town-netlava.

But too risky. So I decided that I would bandwagon on the next vote, which I assumed would be on Netlava (guess it wasn't that obvious?), and hope the chronic confident WIFOM of the expirienced gets me lucky. This hope was small, though.

But yea, once I finish my games, I'll hiatus until school slows down, sign up for my second Newbie and see if I've improved.