Open 226: Big Love - Game over! Town wins!

[RedCoyote]

Well my friend, I'm certainly going to try. I would hope a kind, fellow townie would give me a good summary or point me toward important pages/posts so that I can get a quick start. This is my first lovers game, and I've only played in just a few open setups.

[RedCoyote]

Yeah, normally when I replace into a game, I do a long post consisting of notes as I've read the game. Due to the length of this game, I will most likely not be doing anything too extravagant. I will skim through the thread the best I can, but I suspect the town would want me to get into the game more than they'd want me to rehash dead old arguments and posts. I see the town is in a great position... so you're townie with me, right doc?

[RedCoyote]

My initial, very basic read tells me that don, a player I do admire for his scumhunting in particular, may have been onto something in regards to mallow. I have only really looked over the last few pages and a little isolation, but I definitely want to analyze the vote counts some before I start swinging my weight around. I really just don't have the time to make that big of a move immediately, but I am not entirely sure I want either of these lynches to go through at the moment. If the only case against Wacka is AtE, then I am not impressed. I haven't seen much against Robo yet.

Anyways, I plan to make a better post Sunday or Monday.

[RedCoyote]

God love you, Miyu. I don't know how you could stomach this game. I read through the first ten pages, but I don't think I'm going to be able to do it. There is just far too much nonsense going on.

Day 1 Lynch

chihuahua0

(smashbro_of_the_SSS,

don_johnson

,

Fidelis

, Sanxion1, Robocopter87, DavidParker,

Zajnet

,

yabbaguy

, millar13,

Shattered Viewpoint

) 10 (L-0)
millar13 (Mr.Sandman,

chihuahua0

) 2 (L-8)
Robocopter87 (Xite9) 1 (L-9)
Xite91 (Switz,

Pittbunny

, Muthaa, ZeroFang) 4 (L-6)
Not voting: Enigma, Wacka Alpaca

Day 2 Lynch

Enigma (DavidParker) 1 L-8

Shattered Viewpoint

(Switz, Mr.Sandman, smashbro_of_the_SSS,

Zajnet

, Sanxion, mallowgeno,

don_johnson

, millar13,

Shattered Viewpoint

) 9 L-0

Zajnet

(

yabbaguy

) 1 L-8
Not voting: Enigma, Muthaa, Robocopter87, Wacka Alpaca, ZeroFang

Day 3 Lynch

mallowgeno (

Zajnet

) 2 L-6
Wacka Alpaca (Sanxion, Muthaa) 2 L-6

Zajnet

(Switz, ZeroFang,

don_johnson

, Robocopter87, Mr.Sandman, DavidParker, mallowgeno, smashbro_of_the_SSS) 7 L-1
Not voting: Enigma, Muthaa, Robocopter87, Wacka Alpaca, ZeroFang

A few things stick out to me almost immediately:

1) Enigma and Miyu (Wacka Alpaca) have curiously not had a vote down before any of the three lynches occured.
2) Enigma, Miyu (Wacka Alpaca), ZeroFang, and Muthaa were not on either of the scum wagons during D1 & D2, yet ZeroFang was on the town lynch wagon during D3.
3) Me (SSSS), Sanxion, and the doc (millar) were on both of the scum wagons during D1 & D2.

Based on this primitive, excessively general overview of the game, ZeroFang is not looking too hot. Enigma, have you been scared to throw a vote down this game?

[RedCoyote]

Actually, the Doc was yabbaguy. Not Millar.

The doc as in drmyshotty, not as in the Doctor role.

[RedCoyote]

I'm very unimpressed with this mentality of, "Oh, Miyu, I'm just going to ignore everything you said in favor of Wacka's ragequitting". It's nonsense. Since when is replacing out a scumtell? You can take that to the Mafia Discussion forum (and it is taken there quite often actually) and ask them about how people replacing out have a tendency to be a certain alignment. Virtually everyone agrees that it is completely arbitrary.

Vote: Enigma

for not having any discernible presence in this game, and blindly pushing a case based on,

Whether you like it or not, you are going to need to dig yourself out of the hole he dug you into.

What about what Miyu has contributed so far?

[RedCoyote]

Congratulations on a completely stupid useless vote on one of the town lover pairs in the game. Thanks for reading the thread.

Just as many thanks back at you for helping me and the doc get into the game and showing a real warm welcome to players who have willingly replaced into a 40 page game. We both very clearly asked for help with catching up in this game, and I'm glad important details like Lover claims were given to us in brief.

Unvote

;

vote: mallowgeno

As much as I'd like to play with him some more, I suspect don was on to something when he was pushing at him earlier.

[RedCoyote]

Actually, you know what? mallow is small time compared to Robo. I was reading over him after checking out these last few posts y'all made. I'm not liking D3 Robo at all. Especially that bit about, "Oh, I can bandwagon too!" If that was supposed to be a joke, why did he hold onto it so long?

(I did find your claim on pg. 33, Enigma).

Unvote

;

vote: Robocopter87

[RedCoyote]

Wacka was way more involved in this game than Robo. I've been looking over Wacka's posts in this game... and I just do not get how people see scum here. Why? If anything Wacka was one of the more townie players. Robo has a lot of contentless posts, and he's constantly having to catch up. He's jumping on bandwagons and not really giving his own, unique take on things. This Snaxion move is somewhat unique, but I'm sure it's partly because Robo's hand is being forced.

Seriously though, I'm reading over post's 640, 579, 557... and these all look townie to me.

[RedCoyote]

Please tell me the other lover pair hasn't been outted yet.

[RedCoyote]

Has the other lover pair been outed or not?

[RedCoyote]

Rolefish much?

What do you mean? I replaced into this game. I just want to know if they're out yet or not, because I'm trying to do some analysis. Last time I did I voted a lover and he got mad at me... I'd like to prevent the same mistake from happening again.

---

@RC: What happened to all the wonderful activity and enlightening posts from yesterday?

I have a new post ready to go. The draft is saved. Everyone is ignoring my question though.

[RedCoyote]

Wow, thanks for replacing in, Ythill! I was planning on doing a little more VC analysis myself, although I prefer your conclusion to mine.

Vote: mallowgeno

[RedCoyote]

Well, I thought we would look at you versus Snaxion, but that would be primarily based on the first lynch. Plus I'd have to throw myself in that mix, despite the fact that SSSS was the most townie player in this entire game.

[RedCoyote]

Hmmm, I'm not sure about ZF. I think there's a better case against mallow.

[RedCoyote]

Sandman, why does it seem to me like you're always so opposed to a mallow lynch?

[RedCoyote]

If I were scum, I'd lurk.

Reading back over a few pages, and I found this. I don't get why you'd say this, Sanxion. I mean, I understand your point, but why would you think this "clears you" in anyway?

[RedCoyote]

Oh shoot, my bro hito is here.

I may have to step my game up!

[RedCoyote]

I'm trying to decide which SV vote looks worse, Sanxion's or mallow's. I see two opportunistic jumps at a growing wagon, and I'm not convinced that SV had voted himself tactically in anyway (e.g. because there wasn't any scum on his wagon).

Everything else just seems hard to quantify, you know, and this isn't a battle of attrition. We should let the vote counts do some of the heavy lifting here. The more I read over the flipped scum's posts, the more I feel like it's a wasted effort trying to draw any solid conclusions.

[RedCoyote]

I'm sorry. I want to really make a good post, but I just don't really disagree with Ythill. I want to come in an make some super convincing post, but I'm just no match for those intellecutal muscles of his. Honestly I'm not even trying to butter him up, these are just really solid posts. hito, too, has got a good flow going. I don't see mallow giving us any alternatives to look at, and I don't really disagree with his wagon.

I think there's a much stronger case against mallow than David, but, with the deadline, we do need to get a lynch through. Votes, people, please. If you disagree (Sandman? Miyu?) with Ythill or the wagons then let's see some alternatives.

[RedCoyote]

Red, I've had my vote on David since almost the beginning of toDay. What are your thoughts?

On David?

I don't think he's a bad lynch, but I think mallow is better.

Look, I just don't really have the inclination to give a PBPA in this game. I'll stay here and I will make posts, but as far as making big cases a la you, Ythill, or hito here, then it's probably not going to happen.

Frankly, I'm starting to think all three of you are going overboard on it. I don't know if that changes my read of any of you yet, but I don't know why everyone is afraid to lynch. Sandman seems like the only one who's really came out to say that mallow is not worth lynching now (although since even he isn't posting regularly, it's hard to continue to give him credit for it). This game is being held up on account of inactivity and/or perfectionism. I'm not opposed to a David lynch, and I've made that much clear. If that is where the momentum swings, then I'm content with moving. I do not propose to be a leader in this game (trust me, the town doesn't need a game full of leaders), but I will speak up if I see something that I don't feel comfortable with.

[RedCoyote]

Red, I'd still like you respond to this

I'm sorry; I forgot you had asked me this. No, it really wasn't anything. I just made another updated VC color list just like my last one. Honestly that was what I was going to base my votes off of. I didn't expect you or Ythill to show up and start going to town on the game. When Ythill did, I thought he did a much better job laying out a case for mallow than I did. The main thing I was looking at being the Shattered Viewpoint lynch.

What happened to the other spoiler tags which collapsed it all?

Code: Select all

[spoiler=][/spoiler]

You left off the equals sign, hon. They have two different types.

Maybe I'm being bias on mallow because I don't want to mislynch David again. I know less about mallow's meta, after all.

Unvote

;

vote: DavidParker

[RedCoyote]

Actually, you know what, I can't.

Unvote

;

vote: mallowgeno

hito is on the money about Xite. I'm re-reading over Xite in iso, and I don't like her at all. She goes from voting Robo, to voting chihuahua for being "the scummiest", to forgetting that read, to voting Robo again, to pretending she's a lover, to claiming VT, to saying chihuahua is "slightly scum", to revealing her plan "only when she hits L-1". Meds or no, this is senseless.

[RedCoyote]

I don't know when 8 PM UK time is, but I don't suspect it's more than a few hours. If this lynch doesn't go through, I'm not going to be particularly happen with Mr.Sandman's lack of concern.

[RedCoyote]

EBWOP:

happy

with

[RedCoyote]

Day 1 Lynch

chihuahua0

(smashbro_of_the_SSS,

don_johnson

,

Fidelis

, Sanxion1,

Robocopter87

,

DavidParker

,

Zajnet

,

yabbaguy

,

millar13

,

Shattered Viewpoint

) 10 (L-0)

millar13

(Mr.Sandman,

chihuahua0

) 2 (L-8)

Robocopter87

(

Xite9

) 1 (L-9)

Xite91

(Switz,

Pittbunny

, Muthaa, ZeroFang) 4 (L-6)
Not voting:

Enigma

, Wacka Alpaca

Day 2 Lynch

Enigma

(

DavidParker

) 1 L-8

Shattered Viewpoint

(Switz, Mr.Sandman, smashbro_of_the_SSS,

Zajnet

, Sanxion,

mallowgeno

,

don_johnson

,

millar13

,

Shattered Viewpoint

) 9 L-0

Zajnet

(

yabbaguy

) 1 L-8
Not voting:

Enigma

, Muthaa,

Robocopter87

, Wacka Alpaca, ZeroFang

Day 3 Lynch

mallowgeno

(

Zajnet

) 2 L-6
Wacka Alpaca (Sanxion, Muthaa) 2 L-6

Zajnet

(Switz, ZeroFang,

don_johnson

,

Robocopter87

, Mr.Sandman,

DavidParker

,

mallowgeno

, smashbro_of_the_SSS) 7 L-1
Not voting:

Enigma

,

millar13

, Wacka Alpaca

Day 4 Lynch

mallowgeno

(

Enigma

) 1 L-6
Miyu (Muthaa, Mr.Sandman) 2 L-5

Robocopter87

(

mallowgeno

, Sanxion, Miyu, RedCoyote, ZeroFang,

drmyshottyizsik

,

DavidParker

) 7 L-30
Sanxion (

Robocopter87

) 1 L-6
Not voting: Switz

Day 5 Lynch

DavidParker

(Miyu) 1 L-2

mallowgeno

(

DavidParker

, Ythill, hitogoroshi, RedCoyote, Mr. Sandman) 5 L-0
Miyu (

mallowgeno

) 1 L-4
Muthaa (ZeroFang) 1 L-4
Not voting: Sanxion

As much as I think Sanxion was doing a little innocent WIFOM earlier, the vote counts don't lie.

I think the most telling lynches are those of Day 1 and 4. On the first day, there can probably be two schools of thought. One is that SV used good strategy in nailing a scumbuddy to the wall when the wagon was full of townies (assuming that the scum know who the scum lover is, which I think they don't if I remember correctly), and the other school is that odds just don't work that way. As incriminatory as it may look for me, that's a big red flag that's hard to ignore.

Day 4 may be just as interesting though, perhaps because of how we've got townies sandwiching in the wagon here. I've said it before and I'll say it again, ZF makes out as the ugliest player here going just by vote counts. Neither of the scum lynches and two town lynches up until this most recent day.

It should be said that it's not particularly flattering to be on every lynch wagon myself.

Anyways, those are my two picks. Sanxion and ZF.

Waiting to hear if Sanxion claims, but otherwise you may consider my vote reserved for him.

[RedCoyote]

@Red

: You confuse me. From some angles, you look obv-scummy. From others, you look spotless. One thing I didn't like was the way you followed me onto a townie yesterday. I'm not infallible. If you're town, we need your brain. I'm watching you closely.

Well, so far, at least my judgment to trust you and hito as town has worked out, but that's about the only things I've been right about yet. This makes it easy from my perspective. I've seen a few sketchy things that I've pointed out about Sandman, but in general I think he's giving an honest effort in this game. I know Miyu is, although I have no idea if that necessarily would give her a town alignment. I'm betting that it does though. I have a unique meta of Miyu, having stolen her as a replacement for my most recent game based solely on the impression I got of her this game. She replaced into it long after it started and approached the game in a very similar fashion. She was a town role.

Despite giving this opinion from a bias standpoint, I think SSSS was, without a doubt, one of the most townie players in the beginning of this game. In a game rife with nonsense and irrelevancy, most of his posts were aggressive, clear, and on topic. Even though I replaced in with a chip on my shoulder, I still feel as though I've done enough to warrant a thumbs up for this game. I've never been very fond of ZF or Snaxion, addressed them both at different points since my replacing in, as well as Sandman and Miyu.

In other words, I'm comfortable from where I'm sitting, and I feel confident that enough townies will agree with me.

Red hadn't even finished reading the game. He had no reason to trust me. I've got obv on my avatar FFS, did he think I wouldn't seem pro-town as scum? Often, when I start swinging my weight around, the scum like to hide in my shadow and help me to be wrong.

I admitted early on that I stopped reading after about 15 pages. I skimmed the rest. I have no interest in finishing the read, nor do I think it's particularly prudent to do so. I "trusted" you in the sense that you reached the same conclusion I did based off of more evidence than I was willing to gather. I came into this game with a first suspect of Enigma and a second of mallow, and this was before you had even replaced in.

In regards to Wacka replacing out, well, that's very interesting and all, but it's also very subjective. I don't need to tell you of the possible perils of placing your vote on the basis of players replacing out. It's an often arbitrary measure of anything, and, frankly, I don't get the same impression. If anything, Wacka's commitment to the game seemed genuine. I don't think he was actively trying to mislead the town, and I don't think him replacing out has anything to do with his alignment. If it did, I'd favor townie frustration. Moreover, I think Wacka's replacing out was blown out of proportion by the likes of Sandman and ZF, although I think Sandman was more honest about his misgivings.

...until I looked at this VC and wondered how Red got onto the end of the mallow wagon. It was him briefly following me onto DP only to slide right back onto the more popular wagon behind me. Again, why the trust?

This had more to do with Miyu than it had to do with you. Given that the mallow wagon wasn't moving, and that I thought DP's wagon might, I briefly changed lanes, only to be brought back by hito's argument against Xite.

Tunelled on Robo, pausing to consider and dismiss Miyu at the height of her wagon before slipping back into his Robo-hate. His play seems obv-town to me.

I have trouble seeing Snaxion as obvious anything really, but, let's be real, it's hard for me to buy 10 townies in a row lining up to lynch scum on the first day. That's more than a statistical improbability; I've never seen something like that happen. I don't see how this doesn't carry more weight with everyone.

---

This isn't actually anything to do with RC, but "vote: townie FoS:scumbuddy" is a fairly common occurrence and here Wacka votes for Xite and FoS's chi.

I didn't notice that. I hadn't gone back to look at this post since the mallow flip. That's actually a pretty decent point against Miyu, hito.

Hey red, why single out Miyu in particular?

Because me, her, and docshotty were the replacements at the time, and we were all three attempting to reread the game at around the same time.

[RedCoyote]

Ugh, I had to go re-read my PM. Ythill had me convinced I was scum.

Seriously though, I really feel bad. Ythill is putting more effort into this game than I've ever seen anyone do in a game of mafia. I simply don't have that level of dedication.

You're overlooking a lot. Three slips where he was casually overconfidant about town aligned players who were, in fact, town. His position on the otherwise all town-on-town L-1 Xite wagon. The double-bluff exit Sandman pointed out.

Did you bring these up in a post? I'll look for this myself if you haven't, but if you or hito have already mentioned it then let me know.

Please present your case for a ZF lynch.

ZF was off of both scum lynches, and didn't even really make any worthwhile posts on the second day.

With that in mind... I'd have to point out four other players. Sanxion, millar, Muthaa, and mallow. All four of them are lurking/active lurking. I'm not so sure it'd be safe to policy lynch them all because it'd reduce our town by about ten guys, besides the fact that it would be generally bad play.

Despite consistantly whining about lurking (while contributing his fair share), there's a Sanx connection here in that Sanx is kind of buried in the mix of townies (a safe place to put a scumbuddy).

And... that's all he mentions about Sanx. He brings him up two or three more times, but they're basically exactly the same as this post. He whines about his lurking a little bit and drops it. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

His voting in general has been kind of one-and-done, with the exception of the first and third days, he just votes and leaves it there the entire time. In the third day he only changed because a player claimed as a confirmed townie.

[RedCoyote]

Well, hm, those are some pretty good points, Ythill. Especially on how the scum didn't just hammer Xite on the first day.

Sanx is probably town then. Wacka's language doesn't seem particularly townie when put in that context.

[RedCoyote]

Posts like that make it really hard for me to see a connection between Sandman and Miyu.

My gut tells me not to write Sanxion off, but the facts really don't lie. There's a connection between Miyu and ZF that doesn't really exist between any of the other possibilities I can think of. Maybe I'll look into ZF/Sandman tonight and see if there's anything to that.

[RedCoyote]

ZF talks about Sandman and Sanxion about the same amount... virtually nothing. He brings up Sandman a couple of more times, but it's mostly fluff. He votes him in the RVS and he quotes him a couple of times to say his posts are funny or he agrees with them. Throughout the whole game ZF has only asked Sandman, like, two questions, and they were both about Muthaa.

It's actually kind of comical. ZF can be paired with just about anyone living in this game. His play is that neutral.

[RedCoyote]

Case to come on why I think Shattered is an idiot misguided townie.

Case to come on why I think Mr. Sandman might be Don's lover.

I don't know how I missed this... rolefishing and scum defense all rolled into one?

[RedCoyote]

Hey, DGB!

[RedCoyote]

I want Sanxion back. D:

[RedCoyote]

I'd like

everyone

to note whom they will and will-not vote for. I'd also like to read hito's promised analysis and conclusions. We should do this quickly so that we have time to vote before deadline.

I actually think ZF might be a better lynch in this scenario. From my reading of the thread, it seems to me like he is the most flexible, as it were, in regards to the rest of the game. He can be partnered with virtually every remaining player to a reasonable degree. Wacka, upon reread, does seem like the most likely scum candidate at this point. Ythil and hito have both pointed to particularly incriminating positions that Wacka left Miyu with.

Unfortunately I do think Miyu is being subject to a level of confirmation bias. I must stand behind my original read of her replacing in as townie. That doesn't mean, however, that Wacka, upon reread, looks better. Miyu's been dealt a crummy hand and that's bound to frustrate anyone.

I'm glad that DGB is just as uncomfortable with the first lynch of this game as I am, and I sympathize with her hesistation to write me off (as I was of her slot). Additionally, because of a number of concessions and changes I've had to make, this makes it all the more difficult for her. Not just SSSS, but even after I replaced in I've felt like I was just floating through the game. I've been able to get no successful read on any player so far, and if Miyu is scum and DGB town like I expect them to be, then that just completely turns every read I've had in this game on its head.

But to answer your question, Ythill, who should be voted or not? Well, I'd vote for anyone who doesn't have a color in their name. It would be foolish to vote against you and hito today.

[RedCoyote]

Why? Why wouldn't I vote with Ythill and hito?

vote: Miyu

[RedCoyote]

And just putting off the inevitable decision of deciding between me and ZF (as it looks like it's going to be) seems a little short-sighted. It's the "harder" decision, as it were. ZF scum would've naturally went with Miyu, I think, because there's the stronger case against her.

[RedCoyote]

I don't care if 1 person or 100 people said it was scummy, it doesn't make one lick of difference if I don't know why.

[RedCoyote]

Do you think we should NL?

[RedCoyote]

Up this, Mod.

Vote: No Lynch

DGB, stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

[RedCoyote]

Sandman, I find it more than a little ironic you're complaining about how helpful having another person to discuss this lynch is. You know damn well there's no discussion going on. If discussion was so important, we would've made the real decision yesterday. Why didn't you back me up when I made that argument and Ythill and DGB slammed me for being scummy? Additionally, DGB has seemingly made up her mind.

Everyone, even me, was on board with lynching Miyu. I don't deny defending her; I was fooled. I came around though, which was pretty clear in the last few pages.

I don't want to WIFOM the entire thing, but I want to see a night kill. I think it would help the town significantly more than this stagnant day.

[RedCoyote]

And DGB, you're going to have to knock the vote analysis off a bit if you want to win this with me. Unless you're scum, that is. In which case I'll never, ever ignore statistical probabilities ever again. The first day was just a really, really weird fluke.

[RedCoyote]

The only reason we're not having discussion is because you don't want it. If you weren't no lynching, maybe we would be able to generate some.

Is this supposed to be a joke? By all means, talk. I'm not keeping anyone here from talking. My vote should have nothing to do with your ability to discuss the game. You should back this up. More importantly, you should force pickem to back this up. I have considered the fact we have a replacee, have

you

considered the fact that he's been a dud?

I'm not contemplating no lynching at this stage and it doesn't look like DGB is either, so your efforts would be better of exerted on something else.

If we don't no lynch, we'll have to deal with DGB's vote. It could be a stalemate, and it could make anyone but me or her effectively unlynchable.

And it wasn't pretty clear you came around in the last few pages. You hopped on at the end, when it became inevitable.

The wagon built within a matter of hours. Unlike DGB, I was prepared to let the Lovers lead the lynch. I'm talking about how it was clear that I was supportive of scumMiyu for a long while yesterday. At least since Ythill explained it. Additionally, and you still haven't addressed this, Miyu was not the correct lynch yesterday, but it was not my place to challenge confirmed town. Do you agree?

[RedCoyote]

DGB, are you ready to join with me yet? Priority-wise, I'd prefer a pickem lynch over a no lynch. I just voted no lynch because I thought it would be easier to get through.

The more I think about it though, the more I think maybe you'll acquiesce on the grounds that we're effectively the only two left playing this game. Hear me out, because this could be construed as a bit of a radical argument. Wouldn't you rather take a shot at lynching pickem than sitting here waiting indefinitely for him or someone who would replace him? Even if you think I'm more likely to be scum, you don't know for sure. hito was convinced that I was town. Ythill was strongly in favor of me as town for the majority of the previous day... My proposal is that we'll get this game done, and your conscience will be clean either way. After all, it's not your fault that the game is stagnating. Rather than drag this game out any longer, you went with the logical alternative. You can argue 'til you're blue in the face that you know I'm scum, but that doesn't change the fact that there's no one here to listen to you except for me.

It's just an added benefit that I am actually town, btw.

[RedCoyote]

Like I said, it's a bit of a radical argument, I fully acknowledge that, but if it would speak to anyone, it would speak to DGB (who is obviously my hardest sell at this point).

I'm not sure what you're talking about on the "shit can't get done" argument. Why would we need you to be here or not to lynch you? Our fates were effectively sealed yesterday, and I'm okay with that. I can put you in the mafia far before I can the other two. It's more likely that we'll get 2 active players and 1 inactive player to lynch you than it is to get 1 active player and 2 inactive players to lynch me.

[RedCoyote]

Be fair, you'd be on my case if I was voting him just the same. If it makes you feel better:

Unvote

;

vote: pickemegenius

[RedCoyote]

Like I said, it's a bit of a radical argument, I fully acknowledge that, but if it would speak to anyone, it would speak to DGB

[RedCoyote]

Frankly, I think that's the right call.

[RedCoyote]

I said that while cackling manically (which, luckily, you couldn't hear).

[RedCoyote]

Yeah, Miyu was successfully able to fool me. That significantly put me back because Ythill and hito both made good arguments to the complete contrary of the direction I was going. Having to backtrack from my stated positions both made me look incredibly scummy and was a blow to my confidence. That double whammy made me not want to really play, but, thankfully, pickem was a no show.

[RedCoyote]

But gg everyone! Thanks, Mod, for not abandoning the game and for cross replacing with me initially.