Open 226: Big Love - Game over! Town wins!

[hitogoroshi]

Hey guys.

Normally I ISO every player who was and is in the game and do a writeup, to help me get a good picture of the game. However, due to the sheer number of players here, I'm going to restrict myself to ISO-ing only living players. This means there might be some gaps in my knowledge where dead players are concerned (I DO intend to read their isos if I need to, just not in too much depth and without comment) so if you think I've got a detail wrong, you're probably right!

I have two tests to get to today, but when they're done I should be able to get my ISO-ing going. Expect the first three (alphabetical by original person in the slot, if you're curious) sometime later today.

[hitogoroshi]

Sorry guys, only one ISO today. Life happened, and then when I sat down and started it turned out that these ISO's take quite a bit longer then the norm because of the larger game.

Mr. Sandman

(yes, "M" is first alphabeticial. So many x/y/z's in this game.)

And lastly, hammers chiuahauaha out of nowhere as well, which looks like an attempt to look townier by getting on a town lynch.

This is kind of a confusing point. Chiuahaua was treacherous lover, and according to the PM in the second post scum and treacherous lover know each other. So town lynch can't mean "he's scum who thought that SV was town." So what is he saying? He's scum who was jumping on a bandwagon supported by the town? This smells a bit like bussing to me – like he wants to get town cred for going after SV when he flips scum (I looked at the flips before the isos started), but he didn't have the energy to find real "scumtells", so he's just making up shit up.

This post is scummy. The 'I'll jump on this wagon, then the person that started is scum if the person flips town' is a typical scum post

This is a good point. Scum absolutely love to try to chain mislynches – I'm gonna lynch x, and if x is town well, let's lynch y. Chaining is fine if you're going off of an associative tell, but you chain scum lynches, not town lynches.

14 players alive, out which of which only 2 are scum. It feels like there's only about 5 players playing. Some players need to start contributing or we could end up lynching the contributors just because they're the ones that happen to be saying something

Sandman's contributions are pretty damn dismal, and now he's playing hunt-the-lurker? Don't like this vibe – it seems to be saying “there are people who are saying even less than I am, so we have to lynch them first.” Townies are worried that they won't find the scum – not that active players will be lynched before inactive ones. It's a subtle distinction but it's there, and it makes me feel like Sandman is scum with someone who you would cal active as of August 10th.

(A side note- I'll be throwing down that I think “x is scum” or “x is town” in a stream of consciousness way, but I have NOT read the isos of others, so of course until I give a final thoughts conclusion post, these impressions are malleable. I may find other people even scummier, I may find events that cast Sandman in a townier light, etc. These are just my impressions of the posts in isolation. The powerful part is synthesizing all of the impressions at the end and seeing what sticks)

This is a shambles

I feel like this way more appropriate to me, reading it in the context of his iso, then it ever could be in-thread.

I didn't ignore it. It's easy enough to be the one who dictates things and asks the questions, without giving anything away yourself. I wanted your answer so that I can make more informed decisions about you...

Most of Sandman's “content” is, in fact, dictating things and asking the questions, without giving anything away himself. Aside from his two paragraph “case” on robo.

Overall, not much of a fan of Sandman. I kind of agree that Wacka's post – the “don't screw this up for us Robo” - doesn't make sense from a townie perspective. However, how graceful was his exit? I won't know for sure until I read his ISO, but if he was huffy, I could easily see townie-wacka saying that just to screw with the town as he's leaving. I remember he got banned from another forum for some serious mafia ethics violations, so it wouldn't surprise me that he would cease to play to his win-con in a game he felt was bad.

While we're on the Sandman voting Miyu point, here's something else of Sandman's:

Most of my distrust of Wacka is based on that last line he left, especially more so now that Robo's been lynched and has flipped town. I say that because Wacka and Robo were the two strongest wagons at that stage I think. That line looks even more like a deflection

Most

of his distrust on Wacka – and thus, on Miyu, his surest most primary wagon, is based off of that one line. But let's hop in to our not-so-way-back-machine...

This just adds to my thoughts on robo. We aren't going to catch scum by scumhunting? That means essentially we're just guessing.

And then you go straight on from there to do exactly what you said wouldn't work by looking like you're attempting to scum hunt by finding something scummy wrong with wacka's post

So not only is Sandman basing pretty much everything on a single line that someone said while leaving, he's also

going after people doing the same thing.

He couldn't figure out which of the two was scummier, but now that Robo has flipped town, suddenly it's “way scummier” to have someone pointing that at a VT. If you thought that was the point of the line, why the HELL wouldn't you have a preference between Miyu and Robo? Seems like he's interpreting it to mean something different after the fact then he did D4. Don't like it.

More coming tomorrow, one for sure and hopefully more. If you don't like a particular thing about my ISO-ing style, speak up now, I'm open to suggestions.

[hitogoroshi]

Bah, won't have quite as much mafia time as I wanted until the weekend. Some of it is life stuff (exam on Friday I'm actually studying for), some are just internet commitments that are a little higher on the totem pole. Luckily today's ISO is Muthaa, which'll be an easy one because I know he's innocent. Self-ISO's are basicially me getting the opinions of a (to me) confirmed townie, as well as being in the loop if someone makes a case on me based on Muthaa's action.

Muthaa > hitogoroshi

Muthaa

OH JESUS. WHAT. Did Muthaa do anything? Ever? I'm not sure if there is a single useful point to be gleaned. Basically his content over the last four game has been voting for Wacka/Miyu - first for "obvious reasons" and then for "the same reasons as before".

Okay, here's the only thing I learned from this. Scum like it when townies tunnel on the wrong people. I mentioned that Sandman gives me a vibe of playing up a scummy looking post that could be coming from a trolling townie. That idea makes a little more sense if you realize that Muthaa's been on it forever. After all, if you're trying to lynch off of the robo/wacka thing (one after the other, natch), Muthaa would basicially be free townie vote. That's a small bit, but at least reading Muthaa wasn't useless - despite his best efforts.

hitogoroshi

Oh man look at this guy. So obv town.




I said I was only going to do one iso today, but this ended up taking about five minutes, so here's another on the house.

Paltryexcuse > DavidParker

Paltryexcuse

No content because his house flooded. What a...

...paltry excuse.

YEAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

DavidParker

His beginning is pretty interesting. Not sure how likely his initial attack on Chichi was a bus. While I won't rule it out - when you say someone is a great lynch but don't vote them until it seems inevitiable, it raises my hackles a bit - I'm still willing to call it town points for David.

Days two and three he goes for Enigma. He rehases the same stuff a lot so I'll just quote his first vote:

Vote: Enigma (HI DOOMMONKEY!!!)

Why? Because I have played some 20 games with him and feel that I can safely say he is likely scum.

he also has yet to cast a single vote?!??

How has no one picked up on this.. Sure he has presented some quasi-cases on people.. but what has he actually done to further a town-agenda?? Nothing.. 0 votes all game and we are well into day 2... Definitely lynch-worthy. And on top of that, I can confirm having played some 20 or so games with him and feeling pretty confident on a read on him.

Not casting a vote is a serious, serious offense. That being said, going for a not-voter is a safe place for scum, PRECISELY because that person being lynched is so obviously in the town's best interest, that it's virtually impossible to question someone as to why they're pursuing that lynch.

Lover claim takes some wind out of his sails. After his unvote, he has a barrage of explanation-less quick votes on Mallow, Zajnet, and Robo.

no wall posts plzzz, lets just keep mindless bandwagons

I'm wearily familiar with these cutesy "sarcasm" posts. Someone says "Will you get me the remote from across the room, I'm too lazy to get out of the chair", and you know that if you call them on it they'll resort to "I was being SARCASTIC, geez", but you know equally well that they really do want you to get them the remote from across the room. Congratulations, you are cognizant of the fact that you're derpwagoning. That makes you more responsible, not less. His post 54, where he hammers and posts "oops!" is another symptom of the same disease. The fact that you're being cutesy about your lack of anything substantial only shows that you're aware of it.

As of his post #60, he's still voting Miyu entirely because of Wacka's one-liner. He even says that Miyu hasn't been that scummy. He switches to Mallow in post 72, without a word of explanation as usual.

We learn in David 76 that the game hasn't "captivated" him. Because if you're going to be a lazy, uninspired, terrible player, you may as well go the whole nine yards and blame the town for it.

Also, remember what I said about cutesy sarcasm posts?

How about we all start a wagon on Ythill? Who else is sick of huge wall posts and wants this game to return to its former glory of mindless band-wagoning???

DP, if you were suspicious of Ythill - then why did you agree with him? Why did you not say anything? How is vote-hopping a town tell to you?

I should have included "sarcasm" tags.

Who has two thumbs and totally called it? This guy. He makes an over-the-top claim, and retreats under the veil of sarcasm when called on it. But it's pitifully obvious that David would like nothing more than for this game to return to it's former glory of mindless band-wagoning. It's a weird tic in the human pysche where you feel as though if you acknowledge that you can be more extremist in your position than you are, you are suddenly completely absolved of the stain of holding your position it's relatively milder form. "Haha, I was being sarcastic," - but you don't get up to get the remote.

If we were on day three or four, I'd vote David without even finishing the ISO's. If you don't care about the game, I don't care about your alignment. But unfortunately, our numbers are a little low, and so following positive scumtells has to take precedence to "He's posting nothing, we have no clue about his alignment." I certainly would prefer a David lynch to nothing, but I'm hoping I can find someone who's scummy and not just anti-town.

Tomorrow there's almost certainly nothing coming out of me. Studying, meetings with a couple of difference campus groups, and maybe some board gaming slipped in. Friday, though, I'm done with class at 11:30 AM, so that and Saturday should both be full of delicious ISO goodness. Stay tuned~

[hitogoroshi]

No, he's saying that the potential scumtells left by Wacka point to Mallow-town. So, Miyu is scum if and only if Mallow is town, and he doesn't believe mallow is town.

(Apologies for no ISO's. I ended up applying for, receiving, and preparing for a job. It was an eventful day. I'll try to hammer something out before bed.)

[hitogoroshi]

Special Edition "I feel so guilty for reneging on internet commitments I can't sleep at 4am" ISOs

Sanxion

He's pretty low activity and low impact. His votes for chihuaua and ShatteredViewpoint both seem like they aren't busses. I'm going to quote something from Ythill here:

Oh dear, a couple wall posts that I skimmed and no vote counts since L-3 so I missed it.

Oh well. I'm happy with this lynch or I wouldn't be on the list of players voting for him.

This reads like a mafioso who wants townie-cred for bussing.

Contrast that with Sanxion's votes. They are apathetic lumps, a shrug of the shoulders and going along with someone else writing a case. The fact that they actually hit scum paints him in a townie light. I simply don't see a scum busing with such little involvement on their own part.

From there, he stays on Robo mongering for a lynch. Eventually a Robo lynch happens, and from there...not too much.

Sanxion. You haven't posted much content, and right now you're not being much help. Fortuitously, what you have done seems to put you as a fairly likely townie. Get your vote out there where it's doing some good, not because you're worried we'll lynch you otherwise, but because

we need to lynch the scum.

smashbro_of_the_SSS > RedCoyote

Smashbro_of_the_SSS

Dear lord. ANOTHER player who didn't post much but hopped on both of the scum wagons. I'm really gonna need to do VC analysis after the ISO's to figure out who's responsible for these wagons.

So how do smashbro's votes on chihuahua and SV look? They are more involved then Sanxion's, and I could see them being potential busses. It's honestly pretty hard to say. There's very little in this ISO, and I can't make up my mind one way or the other.

RedCoyote

Remember when I just said I was gonna analyze the vote count? Red did a lot of the heavy lifting for me. This doesn't mean much for alignment, just leaving this here as a note to myself and others who might want to look.

Not sure what to make of him voting for a claimed lover. Since I'm not ISOing the dead, I don't know how often it was brought up that they were lovers. It's certainly true that vote-shy Enigma (as gathered from David's ISO) would merit a vote without the lover claim. It shows that he didn't read in exacting detail - but how could you be expected to? I'm not sure if these means anything one way or the other, though I think townies tend to follow claims slightly less.

I have big questions regarding this:

I have a new post ready to go. The draft is saved. Everyone is ignoring my question though.

and in his next post

Wow, thanks for replacing in, Ythill! I was planning on doing a little more VC analysis myself, although I prefer your conclusion to mine.

Vote: mallowgeno

Red's "draft is saved" post never materialized. This could mean a couple of things. Either Red is a townie, drew some conclusions from VC analysis, and ended up preferring Ythill's conclusions to his own. Or Red is scum and was merrily making up some b.s VC analysis to save his ass when he realized he could just be passive instead.

There's obviously a pretty big difference, and I'm keen to try to figure out which one it is. To that end, I'd very much like to see the "draft" you spoke of, even if you don't agree with anything said in it anymore. Put it in area tags labeled "old draft" or something, so it's clear this is separate from your current thoughts.

The rest of his posts are mostly just passivity and agreement. Now, we don't want the town going every which way at once, so nothing is intrinsically wrong with following. But I'm getting a feeling of hollowness from Red's posts and it's leaving a bitter taste in my mouth. You don't need to worry about making a "good post", Red, but I really do want to see your thoughts. They don't need to be convincing, they just need to exist.

[hitogoroshi]

Oh, that vote count reminds me, I need to do this:

unvote

Also, Dizzy, you still have me listed as "muthaa" once in the vote count and once in the prod count (not sure if I inherit his prods or not, but either it should be hitogoroshi at 2 or I should just be off the list.)

[hitogoroshi]

Look, I just don't really have the inclination to give a PBPA in this game. I'll stay here and I will make posts, but as far as making big cases a la you, Ythill, or hito here, then it's probably not going to happen.

It's not my intention to give "big cases"; only to give a transparent view of my thoughts on the gamestate.

Red, I'd still like you respond to this:

Red's "draft is saved" post never materialized. This could mean a couple of things. Either Red is a townie, drew some conclusions from VC analysis, and ended up preferring Ythill's conclusions to his own. Or Red is scum and was merrily making up some b.s VC analysis to save his ass when he realized he could just be passive instead.

There's obviously a pretty big difference, and I'm keen to try to figure out which one it is. To that end, I'd very much like to see the "draft" you spoke of, even if you don't agree with anything said in it anymore. Put it in area tags labeled "old draft" or something, so it's clear this is separate from your current thoughts.

I understand deadline is looming; when I replaced in I didn't know I was getting a job and entertaining an out-of-state friend for the weekend. Whether or not I finish the rest of the ISO's tonight (honestly, though, I think it's within my reach, as long as my lack of sleep doesn't catch up with me), I'll make sure to throw down a vote.

(Interestingly enough, now that I have the job proper, it actually means more mafia time for me instead of less. I'm an attendant at the math lab, and because access is math majors only, it's absurdly quiet around here.)

[hitogoroshi]

I'll be putting each ISO in separate posts for readability. I will post back-to-back even if no one else posts in the interiem, don't worry. I do still think I can finish tonight.

Wacka Alpaca/Miyu

Wacka Alpaca

Very scatteredbrained. The conditional vote thing is a little out there but probably a red herring in terms of alignment.

I typed that but then I saw this:

Xite has surpassed Millar in votes, therefore
Unvote:
Vote: Xite

This is a scumtell near and dear to my heart:

scum love to use transparent, objective reasons to lynch.

The reason is that no one can say "your vote is scummy", because, hey, they told you exactly why they were voting. You can create a mechanism, and while people can criticize the mechanism itself, they CANNOT criticize you using it because you made your voting criteria completely transparent. It completely divorces you from the responsibility of your vote. As icing on the cake, people almost never DO criticize the mechanism itself, so you can just say something like "I'm voting for the person with the least posts", and more often than not it's a get-out-of-content free card. Of course, the problem is that bad players will also grab this regardless of alignment, because if you have no responsibility for your vote you can't feel bad because you mislynched a townie, because, "Hey! I only did that because the vote count willed it!". It seems more like the second than the first here, but still, it's a powerful scumtell even with this source of error.

His post on chichi is hella scummy. He forwards, not reasons why he thinks chichi is town, but objective reasons why he's not the best lynch. It's a great way to fight against a lynch but, if it happens, still ride the bus (Hey, I thought he was scummy too - it just wasn't the

right time

.)

Then, of course, there's the infamous ragequit. It really does seem like a disgruntled townie more than anything.

Miyu

Something has been giving me a bad vibe the whole time reading this, and I wasn't quite sure what. After some pawing through, it hit me -- Miyu's posts are very much about what is and not about what she thinks. She's asking a ton of questions, and she's posting quite a lot on what people have done. But what about what she thinks? DavidParker is her first scum suspect, and she has said that she "parks her vote" while she "hunts and looks at people". Voteparking is basicially null - while I've found it's not as effective as flexible bandwagoning (you could call me a reformed voteparker), it takes all kinds to run a town. And she's asking questions that could be construed as "hunting and looking at people." But the thing is, we never know the

result

of the hunting.

Who's Miyu's strongest town read? Who's Miyu's second scum read? If DavidParker flips scum, how will that change Miyu's view of the gamestate? I don't know. No one but Miyu does. That opacity is extremely dangerous, especially because Miyu is being so active. No one can say she is lurking, after all, and yet I'm worried not because of the scummy things she has posted but because of the potential scummy things she has avoided posting.

It could be a playstyle thing, of course, so I'll give Miyu a chance to be more transparent. Answering those questions from the last paragraph would be a good start.

[hitogoroshi]

xite/mallowgeno

Xite

Not sure what to make of xite's chihuaua vote "because he seems the scummiest for some reason." Especially given she quickly switches to Muthaa. If she brings it up after a chi scum flip, I'm willing to call it a scumtell, with her getting a "bussing" vote in at a time when it's absolutely painless. If she never mentions it again, slight town points, because most people simply don't think to throw down worthless derpy votes on their scumbuddies.

Her giant campaign to call herself millars lover is extremely hard to understand. I'm looking forward to Ythill's ISO to try to glean the meaning of it.

Err, nevermind, I guess! She gives up the game in her post 64. I have a fairly dim view of these sorts of plans, especially when they turn on such hilariously specious non-logic as this:

If millar is scum, they're obviously not gonna kill him, but they will also know that I am not his lover = might try to kill me in the off chance I am a lover

Overall, xite's scatterbrained posts would be a null tell, but the votes are damning. She thinks Chihuahua is scum, but forwards reasons to delay his lynch.

The worst exchange is the following. She votes Robo. Then, she switches to chihuahua because he seems the scummiest. This is the second time she votes chichi for this "reason." But then, she 'forgets' she's not voting Robo and promptly switches back. When do you "forget" that you're voting for the person you find scummiest? Answer: when you're actually just making up your suspicions.

mallowgeno

Opens by ISOing Robo and only Robo, and in that ISO, accuses Robo of "tunneling." I've seen a lot of things in my day, but a complaint of tunneling from someone who is literally only reading, talking to, and voting for one player is a new one.

His SV vote is weird. He's tunneling Robo but suddenly feels obliged to slip on to the wagon du jour. In ISO it smells like a bus (he hadn't read anyone but Robo, but he knew SV was scum, wanted to hop on his wagon), but if deadline was ticking it would be a smart town play to hop on the only swelling wagon. Since there were two weeks left it's very hard to buy the interpretation that he felt rushed as a townie.

For someone who's only ever commented on Robo, he's suddenly agreeing with lots of people on who the scum are, playing very passively. His ISO 25 is actually noteworthy for a special reason for me. I have a lot of respect for Don_Johnson's scumhunting, and seeing as he's confirmed town, seeing that he went after mallow does a lot to bolster the idea of mallow scum.

Ythill, I'm curious in your specific thoughts on ISO 34. I won't say anything more because I want your interpretation without my bias seeping though.

Mallows day five play is just terrible. He votes DP for the hammer and says Wacka was probably town. Then he switches to voting Miyu because she's "trying to cover up the frustration"? What the hell does that even mean? And then he suddenly forwards that the newbie card doesn't fly outside of newbie games, but he thinks DP could still be town?? So, the newbie card won't work for david, but he could STILL be newbie in the newbie-or-scum dilemma?

Mallow is easily my strongest candidate for scum.

VOTE: Mallowgeno

[hitogoroshi]

Miyu, the format your post took and the examples you chose were rather telling.

Firstly, almost everything you chose was from of your catch-up posts. Yes, you have a nice density of opinions in ISOs 1-3. I figured it was rather implicit that most of my criticism was directed towards posts 4-49.

There's also the matter that, well, you're playing it fast and loose with the idea of "opinion." Let me classify all of the statements in your big block.

Spoiler: Information without Analysis

I tend to not read my predecessors play, in all games that I replace into. As it has essentially no bearing on my thoughts and reads concerning the other players. I don't see how it is useful or productive.


I don't see how you can expect me to explain my predecessors play. Two totally different people, and no possible way I could get inside their head. I understand where the votes are. However that doesn't mean that people can go around voting willynilly without reasoning. Lucky for me nothing. My predecessor has no bearing on my actions. If you want to lynch Wacka, then you probably should of voted for him before he was replaced. If you want to lynch me, that is a different story.


The problem here, is that this game has been plagued by inactives and total whackjobs. How two scum were lynched, is a bit beyond me - other than they were pretty obvious. I highly doubt the entire scum team is going to be that way, so just sitting around and twiddling thumbs is not going to get them caught.

Note: Information without Analysis isn't necessarily BAD to post, it simply doesn't fall under "opinion."

Spoiler: Player Analysis with No Attempts to Connect to Alignment/Association

- yabba has an ego.
- I am glad that millar looks to of been replaced. Why is it hard to not be ridiculously silly. Just.. don't sign up for a game if you plan on being a clown.
- millar was more jester than lurker.
- Mr.Sandman is an active lurker.
- Xite/Millar is a mess and distraction.
- Repeat. Xite/Millar is/was a mess.
- Wacka was lazy.
- About 'walls of text'. Suck it up. This is mafia, on a forum [gasp I know]. If you don't want to read a bunch of words, chat mafia would be more suited to you. I hear EM is 'real good on no discussion'. xD
- Smash lurks.
- Muthaa, why are you always lurking?

Confirm vote: Robocopter
"Well, I don't really care who we lynch as long as we lynch somebody."
"I don't care who is killed, lets just kill someone."
Guilty of lurking, guilty of bandwagoning.
Which to be honest - lurking and wagoning is a guilt for close to half of the player list. I think added with quoted statements, and his contradiction in terms of policy lynches the first day = scum.

Spoiler: Player Analysis with Implied but not Stated Connection to Alignment

- Mr.Sandman's vote, while I assume in the 'random voting stage' looks bandwagon.
- Self voters can go jump off a cliff. Especially those who choose to self-vote rather than ask to be replaced.
- Sanxion lurks and wagons.

Spoiler: Player Analysis with Explicit Connection to Alignment

- Most arguments between players that I have come across have been between two townies.
- Awh SV. I don't think being scum is your forte. (on an alignment-confirmed player)
- Self voting is a null tell. I've seen townies do it, because they were fed up with the game, rather than request to be replaced.

From day one, out of the remaining players..
mallowXite/Millardrmy I lean ranti-town, villagers.
Robo, Mr.Sandman, Sanxion are scummy.
Muthaa lurker
Every one else, no read.

- I don't think lovers revealing at this point is a good idea. Why not just.. not discuss who on that list could possibly be millar's lover. It solves the issue of possibly giving clues to the scum for a double kill.
- Zero. Your 'I think we should vote for Xite's slot today' when SVscum is a candidate, is scummy. You didn't even vote for Xite's slot..
- I think these cases on Don are silly. I know he can border on annoying, and maybe wackjob. But he pushed for Chihuahua... on Day One. How would that benefit the scum if he were one. If you think millar is/was scum, as well as Don. How does that compute? That would be millarscum acting ridiculous on Day One and close to getting himself lynched. Then it would be Donscum bussing Chihuahua on Day One. That would make a ridiculously terrible scumteam.
- David's #652 vote for Enigma because of meta, and effectively avoiding contributing to the discussion at hand, is scummy.
Over all. I feel Switz is town. Still the same for drmyxite/millarmallow. Though activity level is down.
Sanxion, Zero, Robo, and David are up on suspicion.

Spoiler: Other

- I'm on the Robo side of him/Don in regards to knowing how Lovers work. Why wouldn't someone read the rules/information posted by a mod? Or at least skim. Especially when it contains things you may not know. Incredibly lazy. (Don't know what post this is referencing, so can't comment)
- In terms of Xite/Chi/Millar. Lynch order: Chi/Xite/Millar. Chi was a lot more scummy than Xite and Millar. Xite and Millar were more anti-town than actually scummy. I don't see the benefit of Millar's actions benefiting the scum if he were one. Maybe if it was later in the game, but First Day? Xite, was actually in the last game I replaced in. Which funnily took place at the same time as this one it seems. She

acted much the same way. I think maybe just has an obsession with claiming, and doing it extremely poorly -> wrong timing. Her gambit/plan.. distraction for the town. (lynch order for three days ago doesn't really mean anything. Oh you put the confirmed scum as your first choice for lynch? cool story sis

That being said, while I was going through your ISO, I found something I missed the first time.

Bandwagoning is a scumtell. Town has absolutely no reason to be throwing their vote around all over the place and .. bandwagoning. Inactivity is not a scumtell, however extremely annoying. Lurking is one. When someone admits to not even reading the thread, it is extremely annoying; and I wonder why they are even playing in the game.

This would explain a lot of the discrepancy between what you think is "opinion" and what I do.

First - bandwagoning is absolutely, positively, supercalifragilisticexpialidociously not a scumtell. Town has no reason to be throwing their vote around all over the place? Here's a reason - to create the content we need to play the game at all. As I said before, vote-parking isn't inherently scummy. But you have to understand the only reason you can vote park at all because the job of content creation is being subsidized by the bandwagoning players. Good scumhunting relies on an environment where scum feel pressured, and pressure is created by good bandwagoning.

Now, if you think that "bandwagoning" and "lurking" are scumtells, you can move many of your posts from "Player Analysis with No Attempts to Connect to Alignment/Association" (the bad one) to "Player Analysis with Explicit Connection to Alignment" (the good one.) But the thing is, it's more nuanced then that. You must also look in to whether the bandwagoning or lurking seems scum-inspired or town inspired. You have to look at the context of the post and possible associative tells to try to form a comprehensive picture of the gamestate.

So we'll compromise. I understand why you would think that you've provided plenty of transparent content, and I'll drop the point this game. But in return, I'm going to get a point across.

Imagine I have made a mafia-playing robot. Call it "MiyuBot." Here are the functions of MiyuBot:

• When a player's posts fall below some threshold determined by the average post count of everyone in the thread, MiyuBot will post "X is a lurker."
  
• When a player changes their vote twice within some time threshold, MiyuBot will post "X is a bandwagoner."
  
• Once a week, MiyuBot will look for who has gotten the most lurker and bandwagoner messages, and park it's vote on them.

Here's the rule: if Miyubot can do it, you can do it too, but you can't call it content, and you sure as hell can't call it opinion. Mafia is a game about motivations, context, and associations, not "scum are the ones posting the least and voting the most." So by all means, vote for the lurker - but then explain why they are scum, because "they are lurking" is something MiyuBot could tell me.

And while we're on the subject of reads: What do you think about mallowgeno, Miyu? And Red, what the hell was that? You think you were too biased against mallow because you don't want to mislynch David again? And you realized this...because I posted a case on mallow?

[hitogoroshi]

Also, since I'll be going to bed and not finishing my other two ISOS (I feel justified, since I had to digress to that Miyu post) I have to say this tonight in case a lynch happens before I can do the Ythill ISO.

It's something I read in an MD thread a while back. Ythill was mentioning that he has a very explicit method of scumhunting, and he can do it equally well as town or scum. And the thing is,

he does

- almost never gimping his analysis to save a buddy. So, whether he is town or scum, it's usually a good idea to lynch whoever Ythill targets.

Why is this important? Mallowgeno looks crazy scummy, and he's almost certainly going to flip scum. Here's my worry - I'll bite the nk tonight, and then people will start treating Ythill as confirmed town. If he's scum, he wins a free game for that. Now, the thing is, I have no idea how scummy I think he is, because I've yet to hit the ISO. But I am intensely worried at the same time, because it's an easy easy play for him if he's scum.

To be clear, I am not at all saying we should lynch Ythill today. But I want to make sure everyone agrees that

a mallow scumflip does not clear Ythill as town.

I'm going to find anything even remotely scummy about him and grill him on it. It seems pretty foolproof. If he's scum, we lynch his scumbuddy and then catch him. If he's town, he's certainly competent enough to answer the questions, and he's probably right about the identity of the last scum. So, on the chance this is my last post before death (seeing as I'm going to bed with a great wagon at L-1), let me be explicit.

If mallowgeno is scum, there are very good odds that the last scum is either Ythill or DavidParker.

If mallowgeno is town, the last scum could be virtually anyone.

Ythill: if you're town, please understand why I'm saying this and don't take it personally. I have no idea how scummy your slot is, but I need to make sure that the idea you could be scum is at least addressed in the (very likely) event of a mallow scumflip.

[hitogoroshi]

I'll echo that. Lynch mallow.

My Ythill ISO is already super long and there's no way I'll have it finished before I go to sleep. I don't want to post just the part I have because it'll lose some of it's punch if he gets a bunch of time to think about his answers. I'll post it first thing tomorrow I guess.

[hitogoroshi]

Who's your top suspect for last scum if mallow flips scum, and what is your pick for scumteam if mallow flips town?

[hitogoroshi]

Less than three hours to go. Miyu, Sanxion, Zerofang, Sandman - one of you needs to get in here and vote for Mallow.

[hitogoroshi]

[hitogoroshi]

Actually, while I have plenty of charges to level at Ythill, this is the right play. We need lover claims today, and we certainty want the data of suspicions before and after the claim.

[hitogoroshi]

My top suspects are Ythill and Zerofang. I'm in favor of lover claims. I'll post the ISOs/cases after the claims, on the chance one/both of them claims lover.

[hitogoroshi]

I don't have much time, but I'm confirming that Ythill and I are indeed lovers and ready to rock the house.

I'm in Stars Aligned III which is a bugger of a game so I'll be posting less analysis than Ythill but his scumdar is the more calibrated one anyway so I don't mind playing supporting actor.

Listing Zerofang as a scum suspect was mostly just because I haven't ISO'd him and I'm seeing if I can get people to agree with me when they don't have a case, on the hopes that I'll write it for them.

I think that the only rational explanation for killing DP over me or Ythill is that the scum bought the Mega Shark v. Giant Octopus narrative that I tried to sell - that Ythill and I would be dueling it out today in an epic clash of the titans. As such, Zerofang, I'm extremely keen to hear your case on Ythill, because I kinda get the feeling that you're scum waiting for me to post the big epic case on Ythill I've been 'working on' and that you don't really have one of your own. Feel free to prove me wrong.

I'll be back with more soon.

[hitogoroshi]

If you and Hito are lovers, it is rather comical - because you both shared the same ridiculous idea that bandwagoning is not a scumtell. Which it is. Otherwise, exactly what are you basing your vote analysis on?

Are you reading Ythill's posts? This is a serious question. His reasoning is very clearly stated. I can't possibly imagine why you think that vote analysis is contingent on bandwagoning being a scumtell if you've read any of what Ythill posted. Bandwagoning is what ALLOWS this analysis. It's helping the town tremendously. Having lots of wagons is wonderful and amazing for town, because each wagon is a decision point where we can analyze motivations, and refine our conclusions as more role information comes in. I doubt you'll be able to find a single experienced mafia player who will say bandwagoning is a scumtell - though I welcome you to try in MD when this game is over.

Ythill, I agree a lot with your views on mod iso 48 and I can't wait to read the rest of your thoughts on it.

Also, you clearly like vote count analysis. I like associative tells myself. Give me your scumteam pick you like the most right this second, Ythill, and I'll throw down an associative analysis on it.

[hitogoroshi]

I want to wait for Zero's Ythill case, so I'll start looking at Miyu/RC.

Wacka/Miyu's interactions with Smashbro/Redcoyote:

This isn't actually anything to do with RC, but "vote: townie FoS:scumbuddy" is a fairly common occurrence and here Wacka votes for Xite and FoS's chi.

Wacka says absolutely nothing about Smashbro. Complete silence is the interaction I find most scummy, though both Smashbro and Wacka said so little that this isn't as bad as usual.

We switch now to Miyu.

From day one, out of the remaining players..
mallowXite/Millardrmy I lean ranti-town, villagers.
Robo, Mr.Sandman, Sanxion are scummy.
Muthaa lurker
Every one else, no read.

No read on smashbro, not even to call him a lurker (which he certainty was).

She does give a "smash lurks" in her next post.

Her next mention of the slot comes here:

I feel ya Red. It wasn't so bad, until I got to the third Day and all of the vote switching... after Zajnet had been lynched. You can bring a horse to water, but... -shrug-

Which was a response to Red's "God love you, Miyu. I don't know how you could stomach this game." Hey red, why single out Miyu in particular?

The next silence is longer, twenty-odd posts. Her next mention of Red is this:

Red. I don't believe any lovers have outed themselves toDay.

Which is fairly null - town would say it to anyone, scum would want their buddy to know.

Her penultimate mention of Red in ISO 44:

I find you suggesting things to Red to read and do; rather hilarious mallow. Considering that you don't say much.. at all.

This immediately grabs me by the lapels and shakes me yelling "RC and Miyu are scumbuddies!" Hard to explain exactly why - it seems like she's crowing over the mislynch she's grooming (Ythill's post was the first time I heard that expression used in mafia, and damn, I like it!) and subconsciously celebrating with her scumbuddy. Would appreciate Ythill's input because this isn't a formal tell but simply what my gut tells me.

Her final post regarding Red:

Red, I've had my vote on David since almost the beginning of toDay. What are your thoughts?

Her scattershot questioning has missed Redcoyote for the entire game, and suddenly this. Not sure what to make of it.

Analysis from this side:

As I said before, complete silence is the interaction I find most scummy. That doesn't mean too much in the case of Wacka and Smashbro, because they both were lurking to high heaven. But when it's Miyu and Red, it gets way way uglier. ISO Miyu - she's throwing questions around left and right but omitting smashbro/red from every scumlist and question (with the exception of her last post). Miyu and Red as scumbuddies seem pretty damn plausible from this end.

Analysis of the pair from Red's side will probably have to wait until tomorrow, sorry.

[hitogoroshi]

Either that or post your case against me. Now.

He did. He's posed multiple questions for you to answer, and he's posted quite a bit of good analysis, the majority of which implicates you as scum.

The questions addressed to you were on their own lines, starting with a bolded @Miyu. Are you not reading Ythill's posts, or are you deliberately not answering the questions?

Ythill: Honestly, the ppp analysis seems a little too special casey to be worth undue consideration.

RC side of the analysis will come maybe before I sleep, maybe not.

[hitogoroshi]

RedCoyote's/Smashbro's interactions with Wacka/Miyu:

Smashbro said literally nothing about Wacka. Not as scummy as it could be because both of them lurked their asses off.

RedCoyote first mentions Wacka in ISO 2:

If the only case against Wacka is AtE, then I am not impressed.

This apparently seems to be referring to his "Robo, don't screw this up for us. " AtE seems like a ludicrous way to define that, and I get the vibe that RC came to the conclusion to defend Wacka FIRST and then found a buzzword for it.

ISO 3 has the already mentioned, "God love you, Miyu. I don't know how you could stomach this game. I read through the first ten pages, but I don't think I'm going to be able to do it. There is just far too much nonsense going on. ."

It

also

has this bit:

A few things stick out to me almost immediately:

1) Enigma and Miyu (Wacka Alpaca) have curiously not had a vote down before any of the three lynches occured.
2) Enigma, Miyu (Wacka Alpaca), ZeroFang, and Muthaa were not on either of the scum wagons during D1 & D2, yet ZeroFang was on the town lynch wagon during D3.
3) Me (SSSS), Sanxion, and the doc (millar) were on both of the scum wagons during D1 & D2.

Based on this primitive, excessively general overview of the game, ZeroFang is not looking too hot. Enigma, have you been scared to throw a vote down this game?

It looks scummy at first glance, but seeing as he couldn't ask Miyu if she was scared to throw down a vote (she voted Robo after her catch-up) it's pretty much a null wash.

ISO 5 is more explicit defense of Miyu:

I'm very unimpressed with this mentality of, "Oh, Miyu, I'm just going to ignore everything you said in favor of Wacka's ragequitting". It's nonsense. Since when is replacing out a scumtell? You can take that to the Mafia Discussion forum (and it is taken there quite often actually) and ask them about how people replacing out have a tendency to be a certain alignment. Virtually everyone agrees that it is completely arbitrary.

Vote: Enigma for not having any discernible presence in this game, and blindly pushing a case based on,

Whether you like it or not, you are going to need to dig yourself out of the hole he dug you into.

What about what Miyu has contributed so far?

ISO 8 is more explicit defense of Miyu:

Wacka was way more involved in this game than Robo. I've been looking over Wacka's posts in this game... and I just do not get how people see scum here. Why? If anything Wacka was one of the more townie players. Robo has a lot of contentless posts, and he's constantly having to catch up. He's jumping on bandwagons and not really giving his own, unique take on things. This Snaxion move is somewhat unique, but I'm sure it's partly because Robo's hand is being forced.

Seriously though, I'm reading over post's 640, 579, 557... and these all look townie to me.

His next major mention of Miyu is in ISO 26:

Well, so far, at least my judgment to trust you and hito as town has worked out, but that's about the only things I've been right about yet. This makes it easy from my perspective. I've seen a few sketchy things that I've pointed out about Sandman, but in general I think he's giving an honest effort in this game. I know Miyu is, although I have no idea if that necessarily would give her a town alignment. I'm betting that it does though. I have a unique meta of Miyu, having stolen her as a replacement for my most recent game based solely on the impression I got of her this game. She replaced into it long after it started and approached the game in a very similar fashion. She was a town role.

Despite giving this opinion from a bias standpoint, I think SSSS was, without a doubt, one of the most townie players in the beginning of this game. In a game rife with nonsense and irrelevancy, most of his posts were aggressive, clear, and on topic. Even though I replaced in with a chip on my shoulder, I still feel as though I've done enough to warrant a thumbs up for this game. I've never been very fond of ZF or Snaxion, addressed them both at different points since my replacing in, as well as Sandman and Miyu.

The last sentence seems to be suggesting that he's been applying pressure / suspicion to Miyu, which is

most definitely

not the case.

Overall, I have absolutely zero problem believing that RC and Miyu are scumbuddies. I really, really want ZF, sandman, and sanx's replacement to get in here.

I'll probably do RC <---> ZF next, unless you have a different plan, Ythill.

Also, just thought of something.

Ythill

, what do you think of the night kill? It seems to me that if the scum killed DP, they probably had to think he was a lover. If you had to pick DP's loverbuddy, who would it be? (I ask because if it's not one of us, that person gets some major townpoints.)

[hitogoroshi]

EBWOP: Actually, it's Miyu <---> ZF I'll be doing next. I think RC and ZF is actually one of the less likely scumpairs.

[hitogoroshi]

Hito, please learn to read. A case does not equate to being asked questions.
I'll respond to everything once I get home. Though I do find it rather hysterical that you completely ignore me calling you out hito, but then turn around and try to bash me for not answering something. I ignored them for a reason, because I wanted ythill to post his case; rather than ask questions.

Firstly, he's posted a fairly exhaustive analysis that I'm sure would comprise the bulk of any "case" on you. As an example, mod iso 48 is a vote count that puts you in a very negative light. He posted as much three days ago. Why does he have to repackage this into a "case"? Nothing is stopping you from commenting on his analysis now. He took all the work to write it in the first place; I don't see why he must also take the work of rephrasing it for your sake. And for that matter, how are things like this:

Miyu: There is no clear scumteam between the four unconfirmed players who are not Miyu. There are solid reasons why each one of them is not scum unless she is. Furthermore, there are links suggesting that she is scum with at least one of them. All four players posted while she was hovering at L-2 and being pressured by five townies. Two of them (Sand-ZF) were set up for suspicion against her; unless those two are a scumteam, the other had a hammer likely to follow an L-2 vote. While Sanx may have been scum stuck in a stance, the only other player who didn't suspect Miyu was Red, who had recently replaced in with a clean slate, and could have easily placed that L-2 vote with two likely hammers waiting. Tl;dr: Miyu is scum.

not a case?

Secondly, I don't think Ythill really even needs to write a "case" today. Cases are when you're trying to get people to vote for your favorite lynch candidate. That's not needed here. Some time today, Ythill is going to call the scumteam he thinks is most probable from the sum of the evidence before us. Unless I severely disagree (and given that my analysis is part of the evidence, I highly doubt that) I'll vote with him. That person is the person who's getting lynched today. This isn't about "cases" anymore - it's about analysis. Maybe Ythill will cater to your obstinance, but he's certainly under no obligation to. If you refuse to engage the evidence or answer questions until Ythill repackages his work, there's nothing stopping us from lynching you while you remain silent. The burden of proof is on you to prove you're not scum.

Thirdly - and this applies to

everyone

- your job is not just to defend yourself, but to find the scum. Ythill's questions are both asking you for your thoughts on who the scum are. Why on earth does he have to write a case to get you to scumhunt?

PREVIEW EDIT: Ythill came in and said basicially the same thing, but nicer. I guess I'm the bad cop here.

Also, Ythill:

It fits with RC's misread/misrep that Wacka's exit was the only point against him. Red glazed over the double-bluff the same way he glazed over the other points against the slot. However, it seems really heavy-handed for treatment of an actual buddy. Does he seem that clumsy to you?

Mallowgeno and DavidParker were both town. RC certainly isn't a clumsy player, but I can definitely see him getting complacent if he feels like the relevant mislynches are lined up. You can see from his posts on the tail end of day 5 that he's feeling a little burnt out in the game. This could be because he's a scum who feels like the win is in the bag.

Actually, thinking about this now, I don't think RC could really be scum with anyone but Miyu. With Miyu-town, a DP lynch would have been easily achievable. They'd need only one townie DP vote besides Miyu to secure the lynch, and if either the n5 or n6 shot hit a lover that'd be game.

The paranoid side of me is saying that the DP kill makes the most sense as a framing mechanism for a Miyu-town lynch.

DP would be a knock-in-and-win mislynch if Miyu is town. Sure, killing him would help get Miyu lynched, but it'd be easier to get HIM lynched if Miyu is town.

[hitogoroshi]

I disagree, sorry. We need to make the correct decision regardless of how she plays.

Yeah, but I meant it in the terms of "cases". We don't need to explain to HER why we think she's scum, she needs to explain to us why she's not. Obviously, I'm not saying that she's automatically scum if she refuses to do this. I'm just saying that the burden of proof is not on us to PROVE our scumpicks to our scumpicks. We need to come to what we think is the best conclusion (posting analysis) but we don't need to put a glossy shine on it and sell it (writing cases).

You think David is a better mislynch than Miyu if both are town? She was @ L-2 two days ago and would have been lynched yesterday if I hadn't played that caveat wrong. Meanwhile, David never got above 2-3 votes.

Right, but look at the names of the people putting her at L-2. Mallowgeno, now dead. Muthaa, replaced by me (and I had indicated that I found DP scummier than Miyu.) Public sentiment was much more against DP than Miyu.

Also, why does this apply only to RC? It seems like it could be said about anyone, which makes me think you're basing it on an assumption.

Huh, you're right. This can be applied to anyone. I can't think of a single scumteam without Miyu that doesn't think they can get DP lynched. Your thoughts?

I was meaning to ask you before... why are you ruling out ZF-Red? Other than this new bit, obv.

His ISO 3, as well as most of his posts today, go after ZF pretty hard. I don't see the scum bussing that frenetically in a game that's lurking to high heaven and a mislynch or two away from victory. That being said, upon re-read he doesn't go after ZF quite as much as I remembered, and his ISO 14 does have a faint tinge of scum-buddies around it. Still, I think it's less likely than Miyu <---> ZF.

[hitogoroshi]

Why do I need to narrow my suspects down Ythill? I am entirely free to look at everyone. That is how I play the game, if you think I'm going to change my playstyle to fit your's and your arsekissing 'lover' Hito, you are ridiculously mistaken.

First, when did it become "arsekissing" to listen to the confirmed townie who's done a bucket-load of analysis? o.O

But the big thing. I think that maybe you're not quite understanding why your "playstyle" needs to change in this lover endgame, so I'm going to explain it nice and slow.

7 alive, four votes required for a lynch, 2 scum, 5 townies.

It's LYLO today, because if we mislynch, the scum will nk one of Ythill or I and win a 2:2 endgame.

Ythill and I are two of the five townies. What that means is that if we are both voting the same person, there is NO way an all-townie wagon can be formed on anyone else. So once Ythill and I make our choice, the only way scum will be lynched that day is if they are the person we chose.

You ask, "why do I need to narrow down my suspects?" Here's why -

if you vote separately from Ythill and I, your vote will not lynch scum and the town will lose.

So, if you're town, your number one goal right now should be finding the scumteam and convincing Ythill and I to vote for them with you. Instead, you are demanding that we spend our time NOT scumhunting, but instead repackaging our arguments against you in an easy-to-refute format. But I don't care, and you shouldn't either. If there is a specific point regarding you you want to comment on, our analysis has all been posted in-thread. Otherwise, you should focus your energies hunting the scum and reporting your findings to us so we can incorporate it into our analysis. Make sense?

(Miyu <---> ZF analysis should be coming later tonight.)

[hitogoroshi]

Miyu:

Townies have a pressure to scumhunt right now. Scum don't. If scum found they had an "excuse" to not contribute, they would take it. A townie will WANT to scumhunt regardless of whether or not they HAVE to. So a good way to root out scum in the eleventh hour is to give them an "out", an excuse to avoid showing up in LYLO, and see if they take it. I've given gradually specific hints in case you were a townie but now I'll just say it. I want to hear about who you think is scum; I have no interest in discussing the case on you with you. I do not need to learn to read, I'm very specifically refraining from discussing the case on you with you to see if you respond from a townie perspective of "well I'll just find the scum anyway" or the scum perspective of "hah! Until he answers my questions, I don't have to do jack!".

It's abundantly clear now that you feel no particular pressure to find scum. Still, on the off chance you're a townie who's just decided to be difficult, here are the answers to the not-really-relevant questions:

Please quote where I said that I've "provided plenty of transparent content." Because I don't recall saying or implying any such thing. I showed you a starter of where I have given my opinion, which was in direct response to you saying that I had not given any opinions. Two totally different things. So please, quote where I said such a thing. Thanks.

Providing transparent content is what a good townie does and what a good scum at least pretends to do. Maybe you never actually said you were trying to be a good townie, but I assumed such. Sorry?

If you and Hito are lovers, it is rather comical - because you both shared the same ridiculous idea that bandwagoning is not a scumtell. Which it is. Otherwise, exactly what are you basing your vote analysis on?

Don't know if you were counting this as an "unanswered question", but vote analysis involves looking at votes in context, incongruities with actions and votes, the climate of the game at the time each vote was placed, etc. Vote analysis is certainly not contingent on a heavy-handed "bandwagoning is a scumtell" to function.

Wow. Hito. Wow. You're such an idiot. Firstly, grooming a mislynch of mallow? WTF are you talking about? Please QUOTE FOR ME, where I ever mentioned that I was going to vote for mallow. Because I am fairly effing sure that I didn't. Seriously, this is beyond ridiculous. Please oh please let the real lovers claim, like now. Oh but wait. You don't respond when you are countered on your 'solid points'. But please, continue kissing Ythill's ass.

The idea behind "grooming a mislynch" is that you DON'T vote for a player that looks scummy, and try to leave them alive as lynch-bait later. I don't expect to find you mentioning you would vote for him.

The reason I was 'ignoring' as you call it in terms of Red. Was mainly because he was modding another game that I replaced into - and I found the entire situation odd. Playing in a game with someone who was modding another game I was in. Was it intentional? No. But you are seriously making a mountain out of a wormhole. You have this preconceived notion that I am scum. What reasons are those Hito? Oh yes, I believe you've never said. The facts and information lead to the conclusion. You Hito, are doing it backwards.

I'm doing supporting analysis at the behest of Ythill. Yes, I started by saying "I'm looking into the feasability of a Miyu/RC scumteam." I literally asked what a good scumteam to start with would be. Sometimes you look at facts and information and reach a conclusion: sometimes you start with a hypothesis and see how likely it is in light of the evidence. Neither one is "backwards", both have their place.

There. I've answered your questions, and the answers didn't really have any bearing on anything. Do not turn this into an argument. Look for scum.

Miyu <---> ZF coming in a separate post to avoid wallspam.

[hitogoroshi]

Zerofang's Interactions with Wacka/Miyu

His first mention of Wacka is in ISO 23:

Wakka: I don't remember the game I played with him very well. I'm wishing I did. Posts like this make me lean towards a town read, but posts like this and this make me think that he's scum. Fairly scummy.

This is Day 3.

Next comes in ISO 40:

How is this different from the Robo-Zajnet attacks? Robo attacked Zaj, Zaj attacked Robo, and nothing got done and we all vote hopped without cases. Now Zajnet is Wacka, and it's a Robo-Wacka fight. Same old story.

The title seems oddly appropriate. This town DOES have big love - for wagons.

His ISO 43 advocates lynching both Robo and Wacka, with ZF not knowing which one he wants lynched first.

His ISO 50 says this:

@Miyu does that mean mallow/Xite is cleared too? We should only trust what mallow says and forget all of Xite's scummy actions? That's really what you're arguing here. You can't explain Wacka's actions, but unfortunately you have to pay for them all the same.

ISO 62:

@Ninja: Mallow, just out of curiousity, what happened to your read of Wacka as a frustrated townie? You said she's town and then voted her. Your actions and your words conflict. Please explain yourself.

Not sure what to make of this.

ISO 65:

Why is a Miyu-Mallow scumteam not possible? There's two scum left, correct?

His words make a scumteam seem a little unlikely, but he never has followed up on his "suspicion" of Miyu with a vote. I don't see a scumbuddy mentioning "we must continue to judge Miyu by Wacka's actions" in thread, and I don't see a scumbuddy advocating a Miyu/Mallow scumteam, but now that it's LyLO Miyu has dropped off his suspicion list entirely and makes his townie-sounding words ring a little hollow. Call it fair odds of being a scumteam from this end.

Other end tomorrow.

[hitogoroshi]

I'd also like to read hito's promised analysis and conclusions.

Yeah sorry for the delay, two tests in two days T.T. Sometime today (the 5th) I should get it out there.

Why doesn't a DP kill make sense for a Miyu-ZF scumteam?

[hitogoroshi]

I am sick and tired so I'm just gonna throw this up here

Miyu's mentions of ZF

Zero. About your Xite/Millar/Robo buddying being too close for comfort. Who of those three did/do you think are scum?
Zero. Your #533-536 mention others more than Chihuahua. Why did you find Chihuahua scummy?

- Zero. Your 'I think we should vote for Xite's slot today' when SVscum is a candidate, is scummy. You didn't even vote for Xite's slot..

Sanxion, Zero, Robo, and David are up on suspicion.

- Zero. About your Xite/Millar/Robo buddying being too close for comfort. Who of those three did/do you think are scum?
- Zero. Your #533-536 mention others more than Chihuahua. Why did you find Chihuahua scummy?

Zero. That isn't what I'm saying at all. I don't think a replacee's actions should be completely void upon being replaced. My point is that I don't read the play of who I am replacing. I'll read a random post, because I'll just be reading and then look to see who wrote it - but I try to stay away from reading the posts of whom I am replacing. Why? Because I don't find it productive - how am I to gain an uncolored read of my predecessor when I already know their alignment? I don't see how reading my predecessor's play is going to help me gain a read on the other players.

Sandman is scum. Partner is either SanxionDGB or ZF.

Also. Where are Sandman and ZF? Should they of been prodded?

Not sure what to make of the long break. Sorry, but my mind is too cloudy to make any solid judgments off of this right now.

[hitogoroshi]

VOTE: Miyu

On the whole, I still think RC is a little more likely of a buddy than ZF. That being said, ZF completely abandoning the thread does seem more scummy than anything.

[hitogoroshi]

Nicely done. After his scummy scummy post I was yelling at the monitor for you guys to lynch RC. Good thing I was dead!

[hitogoroshi]

Oh, hey, any chance we could see the scum QT?

Lover QT is here. It was kind of dull, sorry :p