Feelin' good
SK's gambit is a null ==
#88: CKD gave her something she wanted that doesn't make sense to meEquinox wrote: No, I am not unvoting until you give me what I want. You haven't done that yet.
Neither 83 or 88 reveal signs of anger when I read it. I'm calling fluffs on this explanation.Equinox wrote: I didn't back down because of the claim; I backed down because of curiouskarmadog's tone. 83 and then 88 read like town frustration rather than faked anger.
This looks especially scummy coming from Equinox:Equinox wrote: nopointinactingup > SaintKerrigan > Vi > curiouskarmadog > VP Baltar > sottyrulez > Equinox
Unfortunately, that spectrum is more town-skewed than I'd like, so that's more NULL -> TOWN than the usual SCUM -> TOWN. <_<
Gonna go read a few games and see if I can pin down my reads on the first three on the list.
Equinox, you know very well I don't like Wall-of-Text.Equinox wrote: After all that build-up, post 137 is a pretty big disappointment.
More accurately put, CKD is not playing like his meta, so I have a definite suspicion on him.Equinox wrote: tl;dr "CKD isn't playing like his meta, so he's probably scum."
I was on V/LA. I could say that I'm not so passionate in early game, whether I'm willing to participate or not. Why the sudden interest in digressing?Equinox wrote: First point of contention: "...which is opposite from me actually." Are you saying that you were unwilling to participate in the game initially? I understand that you had to go on V/LA for the greater part of the game day, so I apologize if I take your statement the wrong way. However, this piques my interest. Why?
Once again you are digressing. I did not state whether I believe in CKD or not. I simply think CKD is acting scummy.Equinox wrote: Second point of contention: While I agree that CKD not using his town status to maximum advantage is quite worrying, you... seem to disagree with the assessment of the majority here. What about CKD's claim and subsequent posts do you not believe?
If you are still considering the facets and such, why the quick L-1 vote? Your backpedalling suggests that you are uncertain about CKD yet you leave your vote at L-1.Equinox wrote: I like to think that I am reasonable and will consider all facets of the evidence presented to me. If I feel something potentially throws a wrench in my read of a player, I will say as much unless I'm bluffing my way for a reaction.
Ok. I see what you might have been thinking, but such quick change of heart still incriminates you.Equinox wrote: This is in bolded green because I'm freaking awesome.You're stretching here, bud.HOW DOES THIS NOT MAKE SENSE?! Isn't this the whole damn point of an interrogation?
So your sole reasoning for strongly believing in CKD-town is him being frustrated?Equinox wrote:Dude. You haven't been reading, have you? I have explained the L-1 and the claim. I have explained how my spectrum works.nopointinactingup wrote:First, Equinox came in and L-1 CKDforcing a claim on CKD. Then, as if her unvoting wasn't scummy enough, she threw CKD at the middle of her spectrum at the town side with no explanation for why Vi looks worse or why CKD suddenly earned so much town cred.
It's not logic, more of a feeling on how you would read other players.Equinox wrote:nopointinactingup wrote:+ Second, Equinox in my book likes playing town much more than she would be playing scum. Thus, her hesitance for a scum read makes me believe that she is in fact speaking from her own knowledge and perspective.The logic the witness is presenting here isabsolute garbageWhether or not I like an alignment absolutely has no bearing on how I read players. A does not lead to B, which cannot lead to C.faulty.
I'll give you one post to undo your scummy OGMUS.
VOTE: nopointinactingup
No. I did mention him not scum-hunting but resorting to voting inactives.Equinox wrote:Agreed that if someone is playing inconsistent to their meta is suspicious. However, you've managed to ignore (what I feel is) most of hisnopointinactingup wrote:More accurately put, CKD is not playing like his meta, so I have a definite suspicion on him.in-game, PRESENTplay in favor of using meta as a basis for your scum read of him. Meta is but a supplement!
You are digressing, but I never dodged.Equinox wrote: To your points that I am digressing: Funny, I asked you those because how you approached those issues was suspicious, and I wanted a response from you. Calling my points BS worked for CKD. IT DOESN'T WORK FOR YOU, SO STOP DODGING.
Your evidence are not convincing enough to make me believe your read change was genuine.Equinox wrote:I had considered all of the evidence when I put CKD at L-1. I considered MORE evidence that CKD posted following the vote and then unvoted. This again proves you are not reading.nopointinactingup wrote:If you are still considering the facets and such, why the quick L-1 vote? Your backpedalling suggests that you are uncertain about CKD yet you leave your vote at L-1.
Your "interogation" looks theatrical as I've pointed out. The way you "interogate" is as if you were expecting to Unvote regardless of his answers.Equinox wrote:Don't backpedal, hypocrite. What about the interrogation and my behavior following the results of said interrogation did not make sense to you?nopointinactingup wrote:Ok. I see what you might have been thinking, but such quick change of heart still incriminates you.
I'm frustrated.Equinox wrote:nopointinactingup wrote:So your sole reasoning for strongly believing in CKD-town is him being frustrated?YES.
So you think this game is all about logic? I disagree.Equinox wrote:lol "it's not logic"nopointinactingup wrote:It's not logic, more of a feeling on how you would read other players.
I doubt you have no definite suspicion after that much discussion.Equinox wrote: Overall, scum are more hesitant to read people, yes. I will even ADMIT that I do that to some degree as scum.
But what I will not do is make up a scum read when I don't have one. As either faction. Null tell for you.
Look at your "case". There's nothing in there that Implies that I'm scum. It would be natural for you to OGMUS I suppose so I'm only giving you a chance to look back. If you don't, I'll take it as declaration of war and gear myself up for tunneling mode.Equinox wrote:ITT nopointinactingup realizes I have a case on him and resorts to using buzzwords to discredit it. There's a thread in MD that's totally relevant to this, but I'm too lazy to look.nopointinactingup wrote:I'll give you one post to undo your scummy OGMUS.
Nopoint shall not be afraid of colors. I need St.K's input to figure out the likeliest scum team. Don't feel so self-centered.Equinox wrote:Read. In the SINGULAR.nopointinactingup wrote:I will need St.K's input to reevaluate my read.
Why do you need SaintKerrigan's input to get a firm read on... Equinox? Feeling helpless already?
You enjoy being colorful don't you? Quote the question in color and I shall quote the answer in black.Equinox wrote:
I was not digressing.You are dodging.Now answer the damn questions.
Implying?Equinox wrote: [*] Well, obviously the evidence behind my CKD read wasn't convincing enough for you, or else you'd read CKD as town, too.[/*]
The way I see it, our perception of one person changes with our perception of another given the knowledge that there are two scums. For example, if you had really thought Sotty, VP, Vi was town you would have automatically have scum read on St.K and NPAU. The fact that you had no scum read at that time questions the genuineness of your town reads.Equinox wrote: [*] ITT nopointinactingup piggy-backs sottyrulez. Nice try, NPAU; my interrogation is not for theatrics.[/*][/list]
Actually, I correct my previous statement.ITT NPAU continues to fail. Here is why.
sottyrulez was town.nopointinfailing wrote:I doubt you have no definite suspicion after that much discussion.
VP Baltar was town.
Vi was town-ish.
SaintKerrigan did not offer any stances for me to analyze, so null.
NPAU was up, up, and awaaaaaayyyyyy. So null.
Who said I had to get scum reads from an argument? SOMETIMES TOWNSPEOPLE BICKER. NEWSFLASH.
Cool. Now quote.Equinox wrote:
- You dodge questions. Instead of just answering them like a good little townie and then questioning my motivation for asking, you outright deny the questions and deny the rest of your fellow townsfolk transparency.
PRO-SCUM MOTIVATION
So ... are you calling yourself Pro-scum for backpedalling on CKD? Backpedalling happens. So ..Equinox wrote: [*] You backpedaled when I confronted you about a portion of your case.You are merely piggy-backing a case already made by sottyrulez and therefore cannot explain that particular part of your suspicion.[/*]PRO-SCUM MOTIVATION
I did not piggyback Sotty's case btw. Sotty made a case similar to mine after my post?Equinox wrote: Deal with it.
There there don't feel bad because I skimmed some of your posts. You think scums are careless then you're in for the shock of a lifetime .Equinox wrote: [*] You have shown REPEATEDLY IN YOUR FIRST WALL that you did not read. What is it that scum do when they see walls made by townies. THEY SKIP THEM. LOLOL.which doesn't help your case because you already have scum points![/list]ANTI-TOWN ACTION
[/quote]Equinox wrote:I'm a narcissistic jerk. Deal with it.nopointingettingreadsrightnow wrote:I need St.K's input to figure out the likeliest scum team. Don't feel so self-centered.
You do not need SaintKerrigan's input to get reads. The rest of us were able to get town, null, and (YES AND) scum reads.Why can't you? Too reluctant?
And you will get your elaborations when St.K talks.Vi wrote:I would actually like some elaboration here.npau wrote:I need St.K's input to figure out the likeliest scum team.
Didn't I say I agree with some of what Equinox is saying? I have no qualm with continuing my tunneling mode like the last game if you insist.Vi wrote: Cut--Calling the team is fun! but has a nasty tendency to not work.npau wrote:No because I look for scum teams, not solely scum. If St.K looks scummy for example, it would further disprove my case against Equi/CKD.
And... wait.npau wrote:No because I look for scum teams, not solely scum. If St.K looks scummy for example, it wouldfurtherdisprove my case against Equi/CKD.
I've been there too .. except it was amusing. Let's just say I don't like doing the fetch duty. Why don't you just do it and I'll give you a cookie?Equinox wrote:
nopointinactingup
Why, yes, I enjoy being colorful. Now why are you so reluctant to go back and fetch the questions yourself? Reading my OH VERY ACCURATE WALLS getting too painful for you? I've been there, too, you know.
Day1 is stretching. 6 people is enough to use POE. And I don't expect you to stamp scum stickers on others heads in case you accidentally stamp them on yourself because you have so many town reads. The sense of balance, however, exists in you and regulates you whether you want it or notEquinox wrote: I do not use process of elimination on Day 1. Only overconfident fools do that. Now, I may have a town read on someone, but I won't stamp scum reads on someone just because I have X out of Y town reads; someone has to, you know,actually be scummy.
Hence my demand on an St.K's input which you seem to be striving to prevent.someone has to, you know,actually be scummy.
Exactly, I don't feel it genuine even if you do. Your point?Equinox wrote: That your point that I was being "theatrical" about my read of CKD is bullshit. Not to mention easily disproven by the fact that you didn't find that evidence convincing in the first place, which means any conclusions contrary to yours that I drew wouldn't have felt genuine.
That's how I play. Yell if you believe I can hear you.Equinox wrote:I almost yelled at you for looking for scum teams without getting a flip first, but you weren't the first to do that.nopointinactingup wrote:No because I look for scum teams, not solely scum. If St.K looks scummy for example, it would further disprove my case against Equi/CKD.
Revolution in scum hunting don't you agree?Equinox wrote: We're ALL waiting on SaintKerrigan. What we are not doing is discounting our reads just because he isn't here. You, however, did.
Huh? You unvoted before I could say anything, so unless the purpose is to make yourself scummy ..SaintKerrigan wrote: The nopoint vote has (or should have) served it's purpose.
Yup. I only know Equi and St.K previous to the game.VP Baltar wrote: @nopoint - What is your past experience with ckd? Just the last game we had?
"Has flaws" =/= "is flawed"Vi wrote:I have to admit this is the first time I've seen someone say that their own case has flaws and still continue with it. I don't know what to do with it.
Yet.
I'm trying here bro and the Equinox colorful Wallotext irritation doesn't help . Btw, I've listed my general feelings at the start of my catch up post.VP Baltar wrote:@npau - I would like your thoughts on players who are not Equinox...namely everyone else. Also, if you're town, I would have thought you would have learned how bad tunnel mode is from the last game.
Word. How about some opinion on St.K's post?sottyrulez wrote:If a single response can incline you to unvote, your reasoning for said vote is NOT strong.
So scums under pressure is more calm than a town? I hereby sentence Equinox's opinion to eternal imprisonmentEquinox wrote: To be specific: If mafia get to L-1,they're more likely to be calm about it because the case against them is largely correct.If town get to L-1 and for reasons they feel are stupid, they're going to get mad. Can scum fake their anger? Of course. However, I felt that CKD was being genuine. (I still believe he's town, but I have reservations until he posts content again.)
tl;dr I don't take that as one response from CKD but two, but I suppose we can agree to disagree on this one.
Meh?Vi wrote:npau.
There's something beyond that "Yet." you quoted. Please at least acknowledge it.
Right ..SaintKerrigan wrote: I thought the fact that Ihadn'ttalked about nopoint in a scummy way prior to that would be a clue that I wasn't trying to lynch him, but I guess the dress code around here is uberliteralface.
Because you are saying Vi is wrong, not Vi is scum.SaintKerrigan wrote:@VP: Looking back, it probably isn't OMGUS, but I didn't know how else to describe it. Essentially, Vi has taken to the bad habit of overreacting to bad things people say about him, first with sottyrulez, and now me.1When I posted the first part of my catchup post, Vi completely ignores the fact that the catchup is incomplete(even though half of his arguments are easily answered by realizing that my catchup was incomplete),2misinterprets my nopoint vote completely (although, to be fair, it seems like everyone and their grandmother is doing that so I can't really hold it against him), and3calls my complaints about the large amount of walls a scumtell. Honestly, is any of this actually decent reasoning?
Why do you think my Vi case sucks?
Whether walls of texts are scummy or notVi wrote:Elaborate on this too. It's ambiguous right now.me wrote: 3> This is a matter of personal opinion, not alignment.
Happy?me wrote: is a matter of personal opinion, not alignment.
How should I know @@. A clear possibility is because you have different alignment this time around.curiouskarmadog wrote: how did my play style work out last game?...I also had a power role then too....this posting seems awful narrow minded. Also, could there be any other reason I am acting this way?....can you think of any reason my I brought my change in playstyle up earlier in the thread?
Sorry I don't stalk. What I meant is meta from the previous game.Sweet shit, I love posts like this…please, do tell me what my meta is?...since you must have checked a couple games (to include my last mafia role from a year ago)…you must have a solid understanding of my meta…please explain..how do I play as town?...is there any difference between a town vanilla or town power in my play? any games you read that you feel demostrates your theory well?nopointinactingup wrote:More accurately put, CKD is not playing like his meta, so I have a definite suspicion on him.
Neither am I dodging or you are being pointed.Vi wrote: npau dodging pointed questions after his Equinox+ckd case didn't take hold and St.K's general existence actually lends itself to this a bit.
This isn't accurate.Vi wrote: npau: lol ckd and Equinox are scum
Equinox: NUH-UH
npau: well okay you might be scum, i'll wait for sk
Equinox: NUH-UH
npau: shut up i'm waiting for sk
Everyone: WHY
npau: i like calling the team
Vi: WHAT WOULD SK CHANGE
npau: if i don't like my equinox case at some point i'll unvote
Vi: and do what
npau: ...
Vi: *cough*
npau: meh (210)
So ?Two things. One, the part about calling the team doesn't ring true with me. Actual quote:Notice that Equinox and ckd are necessarily scumnpau 157 wrote:No because I look for scum teams, not solely scum. If St.K looks scummy for example, it would further disprove my case against Equi/CKD.together.
I thought you were better at reading.Second and following that, there is deliberately no mention of secondary suspicions if Equinox&&ckd doesn't fit his model. It thus seems somewhat unsurprising that he attacked St.K, although apparently Inspector K isn't scummy enough to unvote Equinox.
nopointinactingup POST 1 wrote:Yo. I'm back!
- The scums are likely Equinox/CKD.
- Vi has a completely different vibe from the way he was last game ( dunno if it's the ava ). His over committed defense for Equinox also looks town.
- At first I suspected VP + SR of playing the distancing card at the start because their points against each other were so trivial until post #54, 55, 56 dispelled my suspicion to a large extent. However, I'm still noting this possibility as they have recently gotten inexplicably friendly towards each other.
- No read on St.Kerrigan.
Vi wrote:Blanket statements are extremely convincing.
Thanks.Vi wrote:So scumhunting that doesn't work and is on the verge of being abandoned, yet still consciously kept up with. EXTREMELY TOWNISH BEHAVIOR.
I didn't say that. Why do you think so?Vi wrote:And you're saying nothing has changed since your first real post?
Antisocial =/= posting at 2 a.m =/= posting at 2 a.m in my time zone.VP Baltar wrote:Good things too.SK wrote:Vi has taken to the bad habit of overreacting to bad things people say about him
Vi wrote:I think Equinox's sig should explain her. npau is antisocial and only posts at like 2 in the morning.Where the hell is Equinox? Where the hell is SK? I thought I was moving toward being the laziest player in this thread.
This is also one of the possibility I've been thinking about.VP Baltar wrote:If I was making a scum to town list immediately, it would readVi wrote:Do tell.[SK, Sottyrulez], nopoint, Equinox, Vi, Ckd.
sottyrulez wrote:Unvote, Vote:Equinox
I think that can hardly be called thread dodging. And the vote coming with it looks opportunistic.sottyrulez wrote:We'll make this simple. We're waiting for a response to 213, and we're fed up with your thread dodging.
No complaints so far for me =)Equinox wrote:
Preview edit: Someone complained about too many anime avatars. I obliged.
I think your 180 degrees read change is alarming. Added to the fact that you had many town reads at that time just does not make sense.Equinox wrote:(I'm in class. Good job on making me miss important stuff for this.)
That is not a slip. CKD has town status. How have I determined this? In case you've missed all the times I've called CKD town while defending myself (which I'm sure you have),I firmly believe CKD is town. Firmly. Believe. Is that certainty going to affect how I treat him? Yes, it will.
Equinox wrote:Apparently, I cannot type or edit. I found a number of grammatical errors and typos in that post... oh, well.
NPAU said I was "digressing" and outright refused to answer them, and I called him out on it for not being transparent. IIRC, he eventually answered one of them and never answered the second one.sottyrulez wrote:He dodged questions? I missed that.Can you direct me to the post in question?
You chuckled, implying it has been grossly exageratedEquinox wrote: I chuckled. Thanks for that, Vi.
And you are saying this because ... ?Equinox wrote: I hope you're fucking joking, NPAU. Really. My bigger hope is that you'll flip scum, but I suppose I'll have to wait on that one.
What makes you think SR is town? So far you've only been saying it and preemptively defending the fact that you're saying it.Equi wrote:Uh... I can't think of any other way to word this.VP Baltar wrote:If I was making a scum to town list immediately, it would read [SK, Sottyrulez], nopoint, Equinox, Vi, Ckd.
Why is sottyrulez that high on your list?
Yay. I'm caught up. I need to put a rain check on my spectrum (more like top X suspects now) until I've calmed down from some NPAU-hate. That post REALLY bugged me.
Give your thoughts on the advantages of claiming and how it is the best course of action. Or else you are blatantly role fishing one way or another.Vi wrote: Day 1 in Pie E7 has two goals.
*Lynch scum
*Failing the above, prevent the scum from learning who the power roles are
I believe at this point we've failed utterly at the latter. Therefore I want tomassclaimhere and now before the scum team can plan for it together. This way we can have a better chance at the former, since it's either that or nothing. Given that literally everyone is suspected by someone given the vote count and has a not-so-small chance of being lynched - plus the notion that scum have seen as much of the softclaiming as I have ITT - confirming the power roles Today wouldn't be a waste. Of course I've already worked out the best-plays for various outcomes but I'm not going to go into that now.
Ideally curiouskarmadog can pick the first person to claim, since he has already claimed and nobody actually seems to think he's scum.
Which turns out to be a wall. But I don't blame you for the inevitable. Welcome to the game.lewarcher82 wrote:Well, this sure is a very intense game... I apologise if u will find I am too synthetic, but I do hate Walls, sorry bout that. I am quoting only the necessary.
I may have worded it wrong, Equinox hoping for a claim would be more precise.lewarcher82 wrote: What Equi is referring to is the fact that she did not force the claim.
If you don't bother to respond then answer why you refuse to go into the pros and cons of mass claiming before trying to convince us to do so?Vi wrote: *npau reads "massclaim" because it's in bolded
*npau stops reading rest of paragraph and accuses Vi of rolefishing
*Vi slow-claps
Read my response to his massclaim suggestion carefully.lewarcher82 wrote: Post #270: NPAU, I do not think that Vi is trying to rolefish with a massclaim, common. You guys define yourselves elite-players. I bet he knows better than this, if he is scum.
Vi wrote:It's possible, albeit unlikely, for the massclaim to backfire. But I don't want to go into explicit theoretical detail about the pros and cons so as to sway how scum should re/act.nopointinactingup wrote:If you don't bother to respond then answer why you refuse to go into the pros and cons of mass claiming before trying to convince us to do so?Vi wrote:*npau reads "massclaim" because it's in bolded
*npau stops reading rest of paragraph and accuses Vi of rolefishing
*Vi slow-claps
Everything you need to know is mentioned in that paragraph. If you're too lazy to read it again, here it is in even shorter form.
*Pros:Massclaim occurs before scum can coordinate it, massclaim is not as likely to hurt Town because the power roles are very likely to be obvious by this point, it will make it more likely for us to lynch scum D1 (at which point it will become much easier for Town to win).
*Cons: The scum will definitely know who the power roles are, as opposed toprobablyknowing who the power roles are.
Were you sure I'm a power role? If so why? Why did you mention that you know who the PRs are?Vi wrote:-If we don't lynch scum, yes. But then that's not different from what happened last game, and Town had a good shot then. In any event, this massclaim IS our best chance at lynching scum Today for reasons that will become apparent at the end.nopointinactingup wrote:Now the reason Vi is rolefishing "one way or another":
- Massclaiming today is detrimental to town in that no town PR will be effective at night.
- Vi could not possibly have seen who the obvious town PRs are.
- The point of the underlined post was a rolefish within a rolefish. PRs like me will know that it is fluffs and thus, expressed disagreement with Vi's massclaim suggestion, therefore outing ourselves to Vi.
-Dead wrong.
-See above.
Even assuming you are telling the truth, the scum would still have to take a 50/50 at 2 of [Equi, Lewarcher, Sotty, St.K]. That's not 100%.Vi wrote: And yes, I want the Cop to claim, speaking as avanilla. To the scum, the Cop is 100% known at this point, so there's no backing down now.
I want to hear others thoughts, not follow others' thoughts. Why not more input? Your strategy can wait. Just do nothing for now since I've already unvoted you.Vi wrote:I think that would be unwise.nopointinactingup wrote:Let's here others' thoughts on Massclaim or not.
It would not be a complete loss for me to stop now and reveal what I'm trying to do. However, it would blunt the effectiveness of the strategy.
Would you like for me to do that?
[/quote]Incidentally, npau, where do you live?
QFT ^^sottyrulez wrote:By the way, I'm sorry for suspecting you Equinox...
xD What would you have done VP?Zachrulez wrote:Well VP had to replace out because of an accident that was my fault... blah.
Basically I was sorting through thoughts to Sotty, but I didn't pay attention to the messenger window and sent said messages to VP instead. (They made our alignment obvious.) VP was unable to continue without revealing his alignment to us as a result, so he had to replace out.
I feel so bad about the whole thing.