Open 294 ~ Game Over

[RayFrost]

Google imaged sparkly confirmation.



That's what I got.

/confirm

Also: 100% on the quiz.

[RayFrost]

Fate's confirmed himself as scum.

One found. One more to go.

[RayFrost]

I'm a terrible person

We all are. <3

Except KittyMo, Equinox, Nacho, Farside, and the rest of the town.

Thanks for claiming scum with Fate, though. GG all, etc.

[RayFrost]

I shall not fall for your jedi mind trickery.

[RayFrost]

I realized that fate

is

using jedi mind trickery. Jedi = town-aligned, so fate is town.

StrungOver + DRK scumteam, calling it now.

[RayFrost]

Or, if you want my instinctive look-at-the-playerlist-and-call-scum reads: nacho/andrew + DRK. DRK is for sure scum.

P-edit: Lies and deception.

[RayFrost]

Wait a minute. Nachomamma8's in this game? He gets an automatic pass to LyLo just for being awesome.

The rest of you are lynch fodder. <3

Do I need to replace out, replace back in on page 4, post a text wall explaining how everybody's screwing up, and then shout at you (yes, you) to get in gear to get my pass?

[RayFrost]

No, please don't. I'll have an easier time reading you if you play from page 1.

I suppose you are right about the ease with which you can read me.

[RayFrost]

Besides, you lost your pass when you rolled scum, so </3.

>.>
<.<

Pssst: I'm town this game. The evidence will be how I'm

not

obvtown.

[RayFrost]

Besides, you lost your pass when you rolled scum, so </3.

Worth noting: nacho rolled scum, too.

Double standards.

[RayFrost]

I am the best student.

Do I get a cookie?

---

KittyMo

Here you go! -- Kitty

[RayFrost]

Epic cookie is epic.

Vote: andrew94

This wagon is

never

bad. Kinda like a vezok one.

[RayFrost]

Andrew not voting an

omgscumslip

is practically a scum-claim.

Andrew today, DRK (the bus buddy) tomorrow. GG, etc. I'm certain about this.

[RayFrost]

I'm willing to eat one even if I'm right.

What? They look tasty.

[RayFrost]

You sure?

[RayFrost]

Unvote

Game needs moar posts first.

[RayFrost]

Hey ray are you and your familly ok?

As well as could be expected: in nagoya, so moderately far from the earthquake and only really got bothered by being kept up / scared to all get out.

[RayFrost]

Can we get a force replace / dayvig on andrew? Please? Pretty please? With sugar and cupcakes on top?

[RayFrost]

I have an instinct that tells me andrew's a VI but knowing my luck with town-ness, he's going to end up flipping weak doc and being the only [other?] one in this game. I swear, the RNG gods hate me like that.

[RayFrost]

That said, I

much

prefer this direction for the time being.

Vote: StrungOver

[RayFrost]

Weak doc / weak cop. Same thing.

I know there isn't a dayvig, fool. I just want you removed from this game in a manner that allows us to lynch actual scum. I don't think you're scum. I just think you are roughly equivalent in use as aahh was: not. at. all.

[RayFrost]

I would most assuredly target nacho tonight if I was possibly maybe at some point a weak cop.

[RayFrost]

Is fate a lyncher and this game a b-mod or something? I swear.

p.s. - strungover's scum

[RayFrost]

I say you're wrong.

[RayFrost]

I say we get StrungOver in this thread and make spiffy comments.

I say you're right.

[RayFrost]

Vote: Nacho

Hypo-cop claiming frm yeterday = DRK cop'd nacho. Scum found.

[RayFrost]

I'm a what to be what?

[RayFrost]

Reasoning please.

[RayFrost]

I read it, then read your conclusion and was like "wait... what?" and just now reread it.

I'm going to guess it's...

"Nacho and RF "weak cop'd" each other. Nacho's conf-scum. Connectionzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz."

If so, I call a double fail. I could also be this little thing called a VT. I ask how you find me scummy specifically because I didn't really see how (only thing I read at first was the andrew stuff... and I thought "good points = scum now? Geezus.").

[RayFrost]

The other fail is "why not just pretend to be WC and target

anybody else in the game

over your scum buddy? You ensure you can't CC by claiming to WC your buddy if they ever flip."

[RayFrost]

You can. Two WC flip then another claims, you CC. Limited sit, that, but possible.

[RayFrost]

Continuing the hypocop from Day 1: If I were weak cop, I'd most assuredly target Frost of the Rays.

Oh hey preview edit:

"Nacho and RF "weak cop'd" each other. Nacho's conf-scum. Connectionzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz."

BZZT. YOU FAIL THE TEST.

I ask how you find me scummy specifically because I didn't really see how (only thing I read at first was the andrew stuff... and I thought "good points = scum now? Geezus.").

Your thought there was incorrect. I actually had you marked as town on Day 1 because of those comments, but now I've 180ed that after farside22's flip + process of elimination.

If I were WC, fate'd be my next choice.

I dun get it.

PoE: farside flipped town, nacho's scum, everybody else must be town [not following this], ray's scum.

[RayFrost]

I believe you don't do craplogic, so I prefer to ask what your logic is before saying it's crap, mmmkay? That said, why would scum target either of DRK / Me? We're both potentially right with the hypotarget: the fact I am not a WC is post-hoc (DRK died and confirmed nacho scum, I didn't, proving I'm non-WC after D2 started).

You're still leaving andrew out. Your entire case here is piss poor, but that doesn't make me think you're scum. It makes me think you're trying too hard to make this work. Whether that's town or scum motivation behind it is kinda not certain for me yet. You're making numerous assumptions base upon scum wanting to push a fate case. You immediately jump on me when I've yet to push for fate-scum and most of the game hasn't even posted to see if your potential hypothesis here is accurate.

This overall makes me feel like you are paranoid-about-RF-scum equi-town that has got this illogical nibble an is trying to make a mountain out of the molehill.

[RayFrost]

That said, why would scum target either of DRK / Me? We're both potentially right with the hypotarget: the fact I am not a WC is post-hoc (DRK died and confirmed nacho scum, I didn't, proving I'm non-WC after D2 started).

[RayFrost]

Why would it mean they would've killed me? If I'm weak cop an target

scum

, I'm going to die anyway.

That's self-meta, so how would they know it / not know it?

Your logic here is not even logic anymore. Get some sleep, wash your face, and get back to me.

[RayFrost]

I can't really understand what you're saying, fate. That's why I'm "avoiding" this game.

[RayFrost]

What I understand from your :DRUNKASALLHELLposting: follows this sentence.

1. It's lylo with conf-scum to lynch

2. weakcops shouldn't weakcop because of 1 (obvobv)

3. rayfsort is scum for not responding to fate's :drunkposting:

I didn't "lose moco for you" and you know it. Your play was not so omfgperfect that you can say you would've won it for us. You weren't in the situation. I handled i as best I could at the time, which could've been better from your PoV considering you had :way: more information about the setup.

[RayFrost]

AND SINCE ILL BE PASSIN OUT IN THE SOONTIMES:


TOP RESOOIND TO YOU BULLSHIT:

YO UDONT NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IMS AYING TO BE TWON, YOU LAWLSCUMBAG

I do need to understand what you're saying to reply to it rather than reading it and going "... wut" in my head. Kthx.

[RayFrost]

OK SCUM WHATEVER YOU SAY.

So you

aren't

going to tell me if I understood what in the fuck you were saying? Way to be oh so pro town.

Point to one thing about my play that you find scummy and give something legitimate rather than "scum would've killed him over the night" esque stuff. Don't worry, I'll even wait for after the game to end for you to do so. Seriously.

P.S.: I didn't control that jack got the daykill - I was AGAINST IT. I didn't quickhammer either. Kthxbai.

[RayFrost]

Fate, here's some advice.

Get some really, really cold water. Splash yourself in the face. If you are not sober afterward, collapse. Wake up with a raging headache. Read the thread with your only pain addled rather than alcohol addled mind.

[RayFrost]

AND SINCE ILL BE PASSIN OUT IN THE SOONTIMES:


TOP RESOOIND TO YOU BULLSHIT:

YO UDONT NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IMS AYING TO BE TWON, YOU LAWLSCUMBAG

I do need to understand what you're saying to reply to it rather than reading it and going "... wut" in my head. Kthx.

"I DO NOEED TO INDSERTAND WHAT YOURE SAYING TO REPLYT TO IT BECAUSEI M A SCUMHUNT THAT DEOSNT SCUM

HUNT

BUT SCUMDEFENDS BECAUUSME IM SCUM"


^^EDWQOP THE SCUMHUTN FIRST PPPERANCE SHOULD READY "SCUMABG" NOTSUCMHUNT

How am I supposed to "scumhunt" someone who is posting not-quite-really-at-all-english who happens to claim they are conf-town based upon nothing that I can see? Asking you to make sense clearly doesn't work. It's not as if the rest of the people in this game are posting. I have my reads from d1. Just no scum reads aside from the conf-scum.

[RayFrost]

.... Are you trolling?

Like seriously.

That's the only way your posting makes sense to me at this point.

I'm just going to stop posting in response to you. It's creating a shitload of spam pages that do nothing.

[RayFrost]

So lylo, 3p, nobody vote, etc. It's massclaim time, I guess. You all already know what I am, so I'll go ahead and designate cojin to claim first.

I have a slightly heavy belief that cojin's the scum in this situation because of his nacho hammer in which he tries to come up with some "reasoning" behind the already confirmed scum. It's pointless logic stuff to make it seem like he's being oh so thoughtful and pro-town when one could stop bandying words about and just vote conf-scum.

Also don't feel right about the timing of his hammer - people were suspecting me. Cutting it off short seems like a nice way to prevent my handling the suspicion yesterday, meaning it smoothly carries over and should lead to an easy scum-win. The fact he contributed essentially nothing to the case on me adds to this. He said a bunch of empty words and then moved right along to hammer before anything could be said about them.

[RayFrost]

Cojin, please read the thread.

DRK SAID HE WAS INSPECTING NACHO

. There was no PoE involved. DRK claimed it. He flipped weak cop.

Can you tell me how this is PoE instead of, I dunno... just reading comprehension and very,

very

simplistic deductive reasoning?

[RayFrost]

So we're all townie. Wonderful.

Equinox, can you explain how you can still stand by your logic that I should have died N1 when I hypo-cop claimed an inspect on the confirmed-scum of nacho? I mean... seriously.

[RayFrost]

This is going to look like backpedaling, and it is because I've realized the weird logical trip.

Took you long enough.

That said, I don't feel that your posting of such terribad stretching logic would be equi-scum trying to spread dirt on me when equi-scum would know that rayfrost-town would eat equi-scum alive for such a behavior. I mean... seriously. Going with terribad logic is not something that I tend to feel scum would do in this situation. The fact you've rescinded it rather than trying to continue to push through on that to follow up the D2 suspicion really makes me feel more positively about equi-town possibilities than I do about cojin-town possibilities, considering that his play at the end of D2 was empty words attempting to back the suspicion of me without really doing anything in that regard and a fluffy, empty "case" on nacho that means absolutely fuck all and reads more like trying to get town points for hammering already-confirmed-scum.

[RayFrost]

Now, cojin didn't actually hammer (misremembered that), but he did put Nacho at l-1 when the suspicion on me was still ongoing. The fact he cut discussion off artificially really reads terribad. He tried to support an ill-logic'd case on me and supported it with a false dilemma of "fate town so rf scum" in my interactions with drunk-fate (which is REALLY REALLY FREAKING ANNOYING. Fate, never drunk-post in a game with me in it again please. I love you usually, but... drunken-fate is doomed to crash) but then went on to allow nacho-scum to self-hammer instead of continuing discussion in my regard. He didn't try to find the second scum. Instead, he fore-shortened the day when there was much discussion happening.

[RayFrost]

Vote: Cojin

I feel confident about this. I don't think my reads will be any clearer if you lot discuss stuff. If equinox is scum, I've been snowed (heh...).

[RayFrost]

You should. Cojin's scum. In the meantime, reply to my points. I demand that you do so.

[RayFrost]

Also provide some sort of reasoning and reads towards cojin and myself. What makes you think we are scum? What makes you think we are town?

If you're just going to sit there being implacable, we'll (cojin and myself) end up just bickering with each other. I like to convince

townies

that the person I'm voting is scum, not the scum I'm voting, mmmkay?

[RayFrost]

Sorry, RayFrost, but you're going to have to be patient. Unfortunately, I have no surefire way of testing which one of you is the real last townie, so I'm going to have to settle for reading the game in depth and then picking Cojin's and your arguments apart, piece by piece. I haven't had the chance to do that yet.

Fine with me.

That said, I don't feel that your posting of such terribad stretching logic would be equi-scum trying to spread dirt on me when equi-scum would know that rayfrost-town would eat equi-scum alive for such a behavior.

In Newbie 943, you didn't tear me apart for poor logic or for "spreading dirt"; you tore me apart because I was a fence-sitter and wouldn't take a stance; I could certainly see how you'd come to this conclusion, though, considering a conversation we had a few weeks back.

So, why'd you butter me up before launching into Cojin?

I'm well aware that I didn't tear you apart for that, but I

do have a history of tearing apart bad logic

aside from you, and yes that conversation is relevant from a meta-perspective.

I didn't. I was stating my reasons for believing you are town. If I just arbitrarily voted cojin with a case on him but completely ignored you in the reasoning behind my vote, I wouldn't make a very good player, town or scum. Providing my entire thought process makes it simple to see where I'm coming from to allow you to point out your issues if you have any.

Also provide some sort of reasoning and reads towards cojin and myself. What makes you think we are scum? What makes you think we are town?

Honestly, my reads are completely in the air right now. Your responses to my posts on Day 2 had me screaming, "The snowman is scum!" but then Cojin comes in and does that and you make so much reasonable sense and then...

Guh.

It's all useless...

I'm sorry, my beloved town, but I'll need you to suffer just a bit longer as I figure this out.

What about them had you saying that/ The fact I got frustrated by fate's drunk posting in tandem with your

freaking terrible

logic on me?

What is "that" in your cojin statement? What I pointed out?

If you believe I make sense, do you feel it is a twn or scum tell?

[RayFrost]

What's scummy about assuming that you didn't just have your (self-admitted) craptastic logic for your belief that I'm scum and asking for reasoning? Would you have preferred if I tore apart your crap logic and proceeded to vote you in my YOUHAVEFAILED rage? (note: this is what I initially felt like doing, including the assumption you didn't have any other reasoning. Fortunately, I am cool, so I didn't flip my lid)

[RayFrost]

Why are you asking me this?

I'm trying to understand why you think I'm scum so I can show you why you are wrong. Problem? Didn't think so.

[RayFrost]

Can you explain to me how demanding reasoning is overly defensive when you... don't provide reasoning? I'm really not following you with that one.

Also: I find it funny that cojin was working up to voting equinox with his flip flopping posting. DID NOT EXPECT ME TO DO THIS, EH? The fact of the matter is... he should've left fate alive to tunnel into oblivion on me. EASY WIN. I mean, come on. Since when does fate EVER drop his reads regardless of how stupid or reasonless or illogical or faulty they are? P. much never.

Also: I

am

gloating. I mean, I picked out the scum in lylo. This is new for me (the whole not being scum in lylo is new-ish for me too. new-ish in that it

has

happened, but not in ages).

Equinox. How do you distinguish between

aggressively

defending oneself (such as pressuring the person who thinks you are scum) and being

overly defensive

(going out of you way to explain every single aspect of your posting so as to remove any sort of guilt that could be associated with it)? Do you even make the distinction?

I feel the point about strungover asking about weak cop claims is null, nothing more or less. Try harping on good reasons for thinking cojin is scum rather than bad ones, mmmkay? I know you're town and all but still.

[RayFrost]

Vote:Rayfrost

Seems we did have it nailed

last night.

I'm really not sure if I should consider the bolded as a scumslip or something. Just going to leave this here.

my logic that you may see as faulty because that is how you want to see it rayfrost is a basic truth about liers. Look it up now, the fact you are being overly defencive is almost another sure fire tell about lying.

I'm not following what you are even talking about in the first sentence. The second bit about over defensiveness being a lying-tell is so completely untrue that I can't even begin to conceive of how you could possibly sincerely believe this. THE LEVEL OF DEFENSIVENESS OF A PERSON IS A PERSONALITY-BASED VALUE. IT IS NOT SOME OBJECTIVE THING THAT YOU CAN USE. IT IS SUBJECTIVE. FFS.

Additionaly this "easy win" you are gloating about is not about picking scum out, it is you as scum have found a target you deem easy enough to be lynched that you will have won the game, firmly beliving that if you had voted equinox i would have hammered you =Town win.

Allow me to put things simply here. The fact you are even replying to my gloating comment shows the level at which you are trying to break down everything I'm saying.

Rayfrost the way im looking at it aggressively defending oneself and being overly defensive are one and the same.

orly. Maybe you don't understand what I mean by "aggressively defending oneself" then. It's things like pressuring your attacker to make a case and calling crap logic crap and demanding better logic. I like the cases on me and around me to be valid rather than bullshit.

[RayFrost]

The plurality of we combined with the last night would state that i would have to be refering to right before the lynch, anything else would be you scum, trying to find guilt where it is not.

Secondly google is your friend, sucks that i found out that you are scum from such a simple thing eh? I even stated this last night.

Language is never something you should leave hanging up in the air.

When I said "I don't get what you mean with the first statement" I meant "What the fuck are you even talking about? I can understand the words, but not what they are in reference to."

lastly we can look at your responce. there needs to be a starting point for each offence, to demand a "non crap case" is infact avoiding the point at hand. Any case is a case and you would be avoiding the issue at hand.

Eh, not true. Demanding a non crap case and pointing out that the case is crap is anything but avoiding the issue of the case. It's saying the case is based off of crap reasoning meaning it is not valid as a logical backing for a vote, which means the person has to come up with valid reasons for voting.

More on aggressive defense and overly defensive. Aggressively defending would be something along the lines of consistently defending a single point well aggressively. where as overly defending would be consistently defending a single point.... yeah they seem like the same thing to me. except splitting that hair seems to be irrelevant anyways as my point was being based off of a general defense as a bit of a tell.

.... That's not aggressively defensive

or

overly defensive. Overly defensive would be consistently defending yourself from every single point to an unnecessary extent. I'm just going to settle for us having different definitions here and leave it at that.

I did a bit of re reading through this to look at why rayfrost voted his buddy in the first place and found an intresting event.

Vote: Nacho

Hypo-cop claiming frm yeterday = DRK cop'd nacho. Scum found.

Here he places his vote on nacho for the reason of DRKS death

If we look on the reasons why he voted me today we see this

fluffy, empty "case" on nacho that means absolutely fuck all and reads more like trying to get town points for hammering already-confirmed-scum.

he states my fluffy empty case on nacho is well empty and that im just trying to get "town points"
but if we look at my case then his.

Deathrow would have inspected one of them. So logic assumes he inspected Nacho.
Aside from the hypo-inspect that we can base on DRK in the most recent posts of Nacho he begins talking in all caps, although this can be interpreted many ways i can see it as a mimic of fates drunk posting, another tell of lying is that of mimicry where one would adjust tone, and even repeat the same words of the accuser and i believe this is what we have here.

What we see there is two things. One being he attacked my case for being empty when the strongest point of it was the same logical basis that he had his vote on nacho for.
The second part with a lieing tell coincides with the way i wanted to play this game. I wanted to scum hunt based off of slips that everyday liers do, that "fluff" is what that is.
Now i look at this attempt at calling fluff as a rayfrost way of trying to discredit a specific way of scumhunting, one that has caught him as scum.

I'm not attacking the first point. I'm attacking the rest of it which is unnecessary. Comparing our two cases shows the lengths to which you over exerted yourself to explain your vote. Making a case on already confirmed scum is such a pitifully obvious attempt to get townie points. Too bad for you it was too obvious.

Sure, sure. Scumhunt based upon things that are arbitrary and don't actually apply when used objectively like you are "attempting" to do. My saying your case was fluff is / was / will always be accurate. It's a bunch of words that don't really mean anything but look really good when not scrutinized too closely.

Wut. I don't even see the continuity in your logic here, so I'm going to move right on by.

Just because i want to play the scumslip game as rayfrost attempt to earlier i want to draw you attention to this quote again

fluffy, empty "case" on nacho that means absolutely fuck all and reads more like trying to get town points for hammering

already-confirmed-scum.

Now he was only likely to be scum. i would not say confirmed, the only person who would have him confirmed is his buddy.
As he did in his last post i am "Just going to leave this here."

Um no. That's not even remotely close to the same thing. Nacho was confirmed scum by virtue of the fact there were two flips (one VT and one WC) with the WC already having claimed a target on nacho. This is just so wrong that I had to address it first (though you won't be able to tell, since it'll be last in this post).

[RayFrost]

Also, if we

really

want to play the scumslip game...

LADEEDADADA

WE STILL TALKING ABOUT MOCO?

THAT WAS MY GAME GUYS

I BEAT FATE+RAY

UNFORTUNATELY I CAN'T PULL A REPEAT PERFORMANCE

This can easily be read to mean nacho scumslipped in saying that he failed and won't be able to beat fate+ray again. The implication is from the fact he

can't

pull a repeat performance from his being caught, meaning that he could have if not for the DRK cop.

I don't really consider this a tell, but I figured I should keep playing the "scum slip game" for kicks.

[RayFrost]

RayFrost, it wasn't just the demands for a case you could defend. The overall tone I've been getting from your play has been more defensive than offensive, like you've been trying to placate us and have us think you're town. I mean, sure, town need to look town and understand how to look town in the eyes of others, but you're just

off

, and I can't really articulate it much more than what has already been said.

It's kinda hard to be really aggressive when the people pulling crap cases on you are town reads and there's confirmed scum lounging around and the only people that could possibly be scum in your mind aren't posting. Getting your town reads to think your town is rather crucial if there's enough of them to win the game (citation: spyrex's TOWN ALLIANCES, which I failed to get even the initiation process for completed). Also, my play being off from what you'd expect it to be is hardly grounds for suspicion, considering that

almost 90% of the recent meta you have on me

if not more is from scum games. You have no recent town meta of me unless you count txtmafia, which is hardly similar to this game. Either get some recent town meta or use the meta you have to determine if my play is similar to my scum play. You've got enough meta for that by now.

I like the cases on me and around me to be valid rather than bullshit.

So do I, but when I think a case is bullshit, I just call bullshit. "Tell me, specifically, why I am scummy" is a scum reaction when they don't understand a case against them.

In my mind, you're still a young newbie that has happened to grow up a bit. I've got a bit of a soft spot for you. Besides, I did say you had crap reasoning for what reasoning was there, but when I don't really see much of any reasoning I can't call reasoning crap. There simply isn't any.


[quote="the noxville saint"

for those who are looking at my past games and notice im acting extreamly diffrently is because

im trying to take treat this game as if it were on IRC.

Why would you do this?

It's funny that you mention this as soon as I mention that I'm about to use meta. Normally, I don't consider playing differently from meta to be a scum tell, but you pulling this out before I even say anything about your meta raises eyebrows.[/quote]

I think that this is a null tell, not a scumtell. If I was actively trying to change my meta, regardless of alignment, I would tell people that meta'ing me is a waste. The timing of it isn't particularly odd: you go to meta, he tells you he's meta breaking.

There are a couple of things I want to look up before I slap down a vote. Dead players, I don't recommend holding your breath. I, uh, use a lot of battery.

What about dead players?

[RayFrost]

Hay equinox.

'sup?

[RayFrost]

Mod: Prod both of them

[RayFrost]

I see your prod and raise you a post.

Sorry. I was supposed to read and stuff, but... uh... I blame marathon weekend.

Get to work. I won't let you lose momentum when you seem to be working things out. I was your taskmaster back then, and I will be now.

Either reasoning or vote. One of the two. Both if you want.

[RayFrost]

Bumping to make this BUG EQUINOX INTO POSTING SOMETHING LIKE CONTENT.

[RayFrost]

Fyi: you chose correctly.

[RayFrost]

Fyi: you chose correctly.

The question is: Correctly for you or for me?[/quote

They are the same.

good job rayfrost.

Look at this scumbag, laughing at me from the grave. DON'T WIFOM ME.

I got you to lynch his scumbuddy. He's complimenting my convincing skills.