Open 296: MAFIA WINS GONNA TEACH YOU TO BURN

[MrTrow]

/confirm

[MrTrow]

VOTE: ThAdmiral
for confusing unicorns by speculating about a point-by-point-analysis

b.t.w.: Hi... long time no see

[MrTrow]

@Iecerint: So you did have an actual scumread on mozamis?
care to share on what it`s based?
also i don`t believe there is more info in the 'old roles'. if you disagree ask again.

@Mute:
1: CET(summer): GMT+2
2: you mean those 'gun slinging tough guys' who ran away from here?
3-4: well... i haven`t been in a game yet, where any scum got lynched..... guess not.
5(technically @lane): gut is a valid thing to go by: however it`s hard to convince others you`re right (so not that helpfull for you) and doesn`t actually provide any information (not that usefull for others)


@Kingpin:

I disagree with nacho's "obvscum, obvtown" post being legit. It was too soon to draw any inferences so it's odd that he's referring back to it.

who is 'he'?

@mozamis: if i got it right: 'follow the cop' was the 'old newbie'-breaking strategy, yet this setup allows for such a play.
Because opens are known/tested/balanced setups, i assumed the different numbers make this one not-broken even by that tactic, so i didn`t check the numbers

[MrTrow]

Welcome Ranger.

as for the Mute-replace-situation:
Mozamis is right about the fact there are players who replace out when under pressure (more likely as scum).
However clearly it doesn`t apply in this case as there was no pressure what so ever on Mute.
The 'why bring it up'@Moz is valid UNVOTE: ThAdmiralVOTE: Mozamis
if i had to decide on him now i`d say: town, as he`s the only one of nacho`s reads who doesn`t rule its 'validness' in his own favor.

[MrTrow]

No i`m the one who mixed up (placed the line containing the vote there(where i was in rereading my post when i thought of it, instead of at the bottom))
So here`s the 'readable version'

Mute:
nacho called mute and you town, hero and kingpin scum. In a post that isn`t clearly valid or not
Hero hasn`t posted since.
You as his townread, see it as valid
Kingpin as his scumread, see it as invalid
So far no surprises
Mute however, calls the post that called himself town: invalid (pretty unlike opportunistic scum in my view)
Therefore my 'final read' on the now replaced mute is leaning town.

as for Mozamis:
I do see the idea where the 'replaced thus more likely scum'-idea comes from,
however as it`s completely irrelevant in this particular case (the pressure wasn`t there),
the only purpose bringing it up could have, would be to build a fake case on it.

[MrTrow]

I will also be defending people who i think are being misrepresented along with mozamis. I feel the same way he does. misreps do nothing but make town people look scummy, and are unnecessarry on real scum. (specifically talking about calling his defense complaining... he's l-2, and we want to call him selfish for not having his thoughts on scumhunting?) shame be to the person who tries to stay alive.

I believe the main thing is the difference between:
- defending a player of (un)known allignment
- attacking fake cases/ pointing out logical flaws in actual scumhunting

Voting bloc?
Icerint, Nacho, Trow, and myself.

care to explain?

Do not claim anything else.

I asked you for the bare minimum, but you could respond in multiple ways. Your choice, for whatever reason, was to respond minimalistically. It is not trivial.

Seems somewhat off.

i'm pretty sure everyone has a right to defend themselves

Bit too eager to be defensive?

UNVOTE: mozamisVOTE: lane0168

[MrTrow]

Emp: prob town.

I find it hard to believe 'mr-don`t-play-for-fun-play-to-win' would have missed, that particular case on ranger was already pretty-much nullified(within seconds).
Looks like quite a nice trap.

Bella: either carelessly skimmed the game and missed it, or scum trying to push a fake case.

Lane: strange jump.
Question though: your bussing remark.
Who do you believe to be ranger`s partner?
Bella, Empking or You?

VOTE: lane

[MrTrow]

i also have to ask how that particular case on ranger was nullified so quickly?

Ranger and Stefunny are scum together, because Stefunny pointed out the case on ranger was 'null at best'?

Before Stef made that particular point:

@ mozamis - replacing out is not a scumtell. It's scummy that you are suggesting it its.

not that far afterwards

Mozamis (4): Hero764, RangeroftheNorth, lane0168, MrTrow

(yes i know there is an RVS-vote in here but still)

If that truely is enough to link the 2, this must be quite a big scumteam.

at the moment, emp's looking like a good candidate as well but may be a little too obvious which makes me consider him not being scum.

too scum to be scum? or 'that would be an omgus-vote so i won`t be making it`?

or are you ranger's alternate? or is ranger your alternate?

This has nothing to do with scumhunting.
If you truely believe this(which i don`t believe you do), well....... (check the forum-rules topic on how to proceed)
@Ranger: the charge is us being 1 and the same person.

[MrTrow]

I forgot

Really?
guess i`ll have to check my read on you again.

Empking:
0-1: enforces follow the cop (second one hammers 'speed things up' 3x nolynch)
2: called the doc 'pretty obvious scum' in response to a post calling 3 people scummy (1 is confirmed town, 2 were scum)
3-5: actual follow the cop
6: "2 investigations left ,right?", either requesting information that will follow anyway(trying to look usefull), or gloating over probably having wasted an investigation?
7: pulls out a quote to justify a gutread
8: hops on the easiest wagon (the one i read as a trap)
9: votes the first to bite (who makes a remark about bussing while biting)
10-13: defends this vote from a suspicious cop
14: practically denies the 'trap'-explenation (while subtile- pointing at TBM for not reading the votes)
15: asks kingpin to explain his(own: empking`s) actions
16: claiming to have more reasons than the 'too eager' to go after lane (that reaction was confirmation)
17: rules clarification
18: calls for reads/discussion, doesn`t react to the fact no response follows

19: 'i`m not going to just wait this out, but will vote in such a manner'
20-22: calls for nolynch, basically goes 'oops' when having pointed out this was the worst possible move (another 'unintentional trap'?)

So empking:
On what was your read on lane based prior to the 'too eager'-post?
Asuming the read was there, why did you claim your votes(posts) prior to that point were RVS (your 'ranger vote'- was a 'just out of rvs one')

@Bella: care to clearup/explain your last post?

[MrTrow]

Your own argument that her vote was too eager. One argument, and suddenly lane is scum.

1. It wasn't one argument, I only

became certain

after seeing her reaction to my vote.

You became certain of a null-read?

[MrTrow]

Ok i`ll try to translate:

You voted bella (quote supported gut vote).
You voted ranger, when asked about that one

With my Ranger vote I was kind of at a loss to who has scum. Think of it as the same certainty as a just out of RVS vote.

When lane jumps on the ranger wagon(10 minutes later, before the explenation of the previous vote), you vote lane (for being too eager).

When kingpin asks you about the whole 'too eager' thing you respond with

1. It wasn't one argument, I only became certain after seeing her reaction to my vote.

You had a perfectly reasonable case based on that post alone(explained it as well).
Yet here you (as i read it) state you had a scumread on lane before that reaction, which seems to conflict with the 'just out of rvs-certainty' of your ranger vote.

So i asked you to present the case on which this prior scumread was based.
Appearantly there wasn`t.

So could you point out which part of the above is incorrect(or unclear)?

[MrTrow]

@empking:
So lane`s reaction to the ranger vote was the initial case, lane`s reaction to the vote coming from that case was the confirmation?
check (although i still can`t find where kingpin was asking about the confirmation)
Did find enough about you actually forgetting the 'confirmed townie'-thing though.

Deadline is this Saturday at Midnight

[MrTrow]

@ThAdmiral: i think he wants you to comment on his 'wrong tool for the (claimed) job' accusation of me. (+iso?)

Bella you still haven't answered my question.

Which question?

You're being all quiet like over there, other then the comment by Stef about Mutes slot has anything stood out to you?

My current bet for scum is TheButtonman. He hasn't even showed up today yet, and after Hero's behavior, that's a bad sign.

Uhm ranger: do you remember requesting a replacement for hero for 'not posting on the site for 2 weeks'?
note: during his in-between absence from this game he also was gone everywhere else, coming back with a 'sorry been busy' seems credible to me.

I agree more posts by more people 'would be nice', however getting hero involved in the lurker claim, is not improving your point.

[MrTrow]

Appearantly not.

TBM anything we need to know before day`s end?

[MrTrow]

I will
I`m giving him a last chance to provide usefull info for a potential tomorrow.
If he`s scum i`m wasting aproximately 3 hours, if he`s town i may be preventing loss of information.

[MrTrow]

time`s up
VOTE: TheButtonmen

[MrTrow]

Sorry i`m late.
Was (am) mainly waiting for more from Bella.

I`ll finish up my cases on Ranger later today.


One thing i just picked up though:

I had said that I was suspicious of Bella.

Where?

Bella: Her read on me wasn't valid, but it was certainly attempting to find scum

I currently think Bella is more likely to be town.

All I have is a pretty minor town-tell on Bella,

You called her (in)action anti-town and accused her of active lurking D1(a charge that you`ve been toning down ever since)

[MrTrow]

I can name a reason or 2
VOTE: RangeroftheNorth

[MrTrow]

Troooooowww!!!

Thanks

It was a nice game.

The no-lynch hammer was indeed awesome.

As for the last kill, i did consider looking for another target, because of emp`s read on me being public.

However he did decide we`d play 'follow the cop' despite the 'no fun' argument by several players.
Tried to warn for the no-lynch during follow the cop.
Trapped lane and in mylo directly went for the no-lynch (yes admiral pointed this out but still)
There simply was no way i could paint him as scum.

Ranger was somewhat simpler, although the fact that he was able to name gamenumbers and playernames when his meta-reads were questioned (that clearly wasn`t just appearing to be scumhunting), i thought i could sell some actions a appearing town, the easy hop on some of my actions, calling cases 'bad' way more agressively when he was the target of the case and especially the 3rd mylo nolynch(it was just screaming,'i`m here and i`m not going to try to get info now')

I even though about killng bella for a second, as ranger did give her a 'pretty minor townread'. discarded the idea pretty fast though.

As for finding the doc, all credits go to stefunny, i had Iece as, 'unlikely PR but probably investigated pretty soon' , she had nacho and iece as the likely ones.