Open 291 Frenenemies (+ other guy) - Game over: Wolves win!

[ToastyToast]

Hi everyone! Expect some input later tonight. I just have to finish some schoolwork but I've read about half already

[ToastyToast]

Reading this game made my head hurt.

First, its best if we hit mafia today, leaves us with masons + backup and two vanilla vs two scum. This is a great position because we have half the game clear going into mylo. Hitting wolf isnt that bad, as since we just saw crosskills happen, but suboptimal.

Mafia should shoot for wolf if we hit town today.

Llama, my scum-read on you starts with this post and continues with all those after it. I bolded the last part because its suggesting that town can rely on scum to help them out. I'm seeing Llama as wolf, as he is disguising his votes based on this post. It allows him to go back to it for clearance that he's scum hunting. BigLebowski was a lurker, and so llama likely tried to remain consistent with his play throughout day1. Now that its day 2, however, he's showing his true colors.

Here are my other reads after catching up:

Crazy: Definately town; the most active in the game, and he's hunting/questioning for every player. I also like the way he's looking at the whole "should we lynch wolf or mafia?" thing
tclawren/Jerbs: Null, but contested. I find his questions to be town, but I did not like his vote on Glass. Even if the switch to SSS came soon after, the switch came off as artificial. Oh, he also has the word claw in his name
singersigner/wizrak: I played with both (and with all the banned people) in a game. Wizrak-parknourie fight at the beginning of the game consisted of. "OH, I REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND YOU!" which is ironic given that they were banned for PLAYING TOGETHER. It's a distancing attempt. Singer has been V/LA, and I don't know what to think of her.
Glass: Don't understand this wagon. Consists of a counter from Crazy based on "lack of evidence" for llama, then llama quickly hops on it, with others following.
smashbro_of_the_SSS: Active lurker, but his recent post provided some good info. null
ToastyToast/chkflip: Sexy
Furculow/aaah400: ugh major lurking.

So, I think: llama is wolf, and singersigner is scum (idk what side though). My third read is between either tclawren or SSS.

[ToastyToast]

Can someone please summarize the case on Glass? Maybe I'm missing something

[ToastyToast]

Hmm good points. I'll have to ISO glass tonight.

[ToastyToast]

@llama: If mafia is likely to aim for wolf, then why is it better to go after mafia today?

[ToastyToast]

Only question for me is if you're mafia or werewolf, and if you're a werewolf, who your partner is. Chk/Toast is my best guess atm.

Because I think llama is obvwolf and would rather have him lynched than glass? okay...

[ToastyToast]

Anyway, if Glass isn't a werewolf, I'm pretty sure he's mafia. But if he DOES flip Werewolf, then that probably means Llama isn't a werewolf, too.

We're on the same page here. I'm just at the other side and think llama has a better chance of flipping scum.

[ToastyToast]

Okay, I'm starting to see llama's logic

Unvote:

I also did a quick ISO on Glass. The thing I noticed most was the buddying. Glass is curious as to why Llama stopped challenging parknourie/DRK when the switch happened, but at the same time seems to have liked park/DRK. So, I see them as possible partners.

Is this enough? NO WAY
But added to crazy's case and it becomes possible.
Glass has also failed to establish a good defense for himself.

Vote: Glass

I realize that this will seem odd after my belief that glass was town, but the responses from Llama, Crazy's argument, and my own ISO have made me much more skeptical about my original assumptions.

People I like today: crazy.
People who I can only like if they talk to me: SSS, tclawren, furculow
People on my bad side: singer (sorry, <3), Glass, llama

[ToastyToast]

The one thing that's tripping me up about a Glass/chk team is that I can't figure out why they'd kill DRK instead of me.

Well, DRK was a pretty active player too. Also, I remember a post (but can't find it due to not remembering who posted it) that said Crazy was the likely kill for N1. That could've thrown the wolves off.

[ToastyToast]

I'm essentially taking a risk--looking for mafia in the presence of wolves. In other words, I see why he thinks we should go after the second mafia--in order to reduce NK's. However, my wolf suspicions on Llama is still possible even with supporting what he says. I think llama is searching for mafia to avoid a cross-kill. However, searching for mafia still helps town considerably.

Some examples: For whatever reason, you LOVED DRK. saying hi when he arrived, among other things
That is not my entire argument but definately added scumpoints
You say you genuinely thought DRK was town, but why? was it merely gut? I saw those posts but little explanation--made sirens go off.

I agree that obvtown does not equal smarttown (as evidenced by crazy's poor case on krazy), but I am acknowledging that I see his point.

Town as a whole seems to want to mafia search rather than wolf search. I am more sure of my read on llama, but you strike me as being the highest possibility for mafia. If town as a whole gets in here and decides they don't give a shit and just want to lynch scum, then they should all be voting llama. But, look at the llama lynch. It was you and furculow. Not the towniest players.

If you need more clarification, ask away.

[ToastyToast]

also, now that you are L-1, are you willing to claim? If mason, now would be the time to save yourself. Having confirmed town can help a lot right now.

[ToastyToast]

is it wrong for me to be involved?

[ToastyToast]

1) You aren't memorable enough in this game to complain
2) I respect him for being active, and added my own input; this is not sheeping, its agreeing.
3) no one is guaranteed scum

[ToastyToast]

No answers to RQS. I understand that this may be a matter of theory, but I for one love RQS because its great for reaction-fishing. I actually find it more useful than RVS

Your case on Krazy:
93 you use an obvious joke to make krazy look bad—he’s not stupid
Quaroath pointed out the problem with this in 110
Your post about saying things without content has no content in it; Quaroath backed off, but now he’s dead. Earliest challenge to Glass taken out.
You also say Krazy contributed nothing to the game. In reality, he started the RQS (Giving the biggest contribution that far into the game); he also later gave a TON of reads

You were against Crazy’s reasons for the vote, but left the option open to vote Krazy. This came off as being opportunistic. Krazy’s wagon hadn’t been solidified yet—you just had to wait and set a trap. The trap is post 148. You say there are 3 possibilities, which is a false dilemma of sorts. “You are one of these: A, B, or C.” How was Krazy supposed to respond to that?
Oh, there was this 191 and 194—those should have given you enough doubt to unvote.

Then, BLAM, suddenly onto the Krazy wagon; you should have been able to tell that Krazy was joking (its how he plays); not to mention the fact that wizrak had plenty of reasons to get a vote on him

Oh, and since I’m reading through the game

FURCLOW: 176—now THAT’S sheeping

188: so you prefer someone who has a terrible case against them AND the person he’s voting for. Does that make much sense? Nope. And it turns out the person you have a town read on is scum.

Around post 192 is where Crazy’s argument begins

After Krazy’s 194 post, you conveniently add bad points that manage to be passed on by town. Really? Speculating based on the lack of an emoticon? WTF
Also, he had a problem with those posts precisely because you attacked him. He didn’t expect you to use his humor against him.

Did you see DRK’s first post?Very opportunistic scum to vote Krazy immediately. Not town--surprised no one caught it, especially since he wasn't even done reading

And that sums it up
Now, why did I consider you town before pointing it out? Because reading through a game, the most active people tend to be more appealing. You contributed to discussions, and a quick look would show that you were contemplating your decisions. However, I now see such contempation as artificial.

</3 Toast

[ToastyToast]

But, look at the llama lynch. It was you and furculow. Not the towniest players.

wtf? Furc never voted for llama IIRC.

accident, I mean SSS. point still stands

[ToastyToast]

ugh quote fail

[ToastyToast]

Furcolow's vote is odd (lol sheeping)

Your defenses are accurate for SOME of my argument, primarily the last point your defense to the points on RQS are based on theory. Bottom line is, I find people who don't answer questions for the sake of "oh, they don't tell us anything" to be scummy. Your not the only one who did this, I'm just pointing out that it adds scum points on you from my perspective.

Your read on park/DRK was OFF, calling him town was OFF--he did nothing to make him stand out as such. KRAZY did more to make himself town.

Quaroath lynch would make sense--he wasn't the main person against your argument, but likely would have hopped right onto your wagon, especially if he saw Crazy get NK'd instead

[ToastyToast]

I am voting you (glass) because of your case on krazy and your subtle support of DRK.

I don't care what we lynch, but I think you are both scum. HOWEVER, taking out the possibility for 2 kills in one night sounds great, so I'm naturally voting the person I think is most likely to be mafia.

The way I see it, llama wants mafia dead so the wolves don't have to worry about cross kills.

[ToastyToast]

I want to hear from the people who haven't said anything since I got here.

Do you think we should be aiming for mafia? werewolf? Do you not care?

[ToastyToast]

Glass, I want to hear from everyone. That was the point.

[ToastyToast]

If it makes you feel better, I'll

Unvote:Glass

until I do.

[ToastyToast]

The only way a werewolf lynch would be

worse

is if both scum-teams ended up killing different masons (which is why I asked that question in my last post). But I don't feel that that's a strong enough possibility to focus all our efforts on specifically lynching Mafia.

Why I'm hesitant to agree with you and Crazy ^^.

Why is it not a strong enough possibility?

[ToastyToast]

Well, I'm quite opposite on that regard--i'm terrible at math. But this was made pretty simply, so thank you. I see your point then.
This doesn't change the fact that I think your mafia, but if, statistically, wolf is better, than llama deserves the lynch

Vote: Llama

I apologize for that

I still want to hear from the others, I can't make a legit decision about people who have said next to nothing.

Those on Glass' wagon (namely, furcolow): Do you think Llama is scum?
Those on Llama's wagon (SSS): Do you think Glass is scum?
Tclawren: Explain why your case on SSS is stronger than those on Glass/Llama.
Singer: Why are you still not caught up?

[ToastyToast]

Not saying anything also stalls the game. I've done plenty of scumhuntng since I've replaced, tyvm

I'm taking about it because it reveals whose side people are on. Llama would much rather keep wolf around, glass would much rather keep mafia around. Llama's argument is based on feeling, glass is basing it on math.

Your ISO: Hmm its subtle, but it is a contradiction. However, placed in context, glass was trying to convince me not to aim for solely mafia.

Since you are now voting glass, plz answer the same question I asked SSS

[ToastyToast]

not that I'm complaining but, self-hammer=lololololol; probably some day talk plan

Twilight phase last thoughts: Llama is likely town--scum wouldn't banter that much.
wolf wants to work together with mafia.

[ToastyToast]

@singer: because I don't want you to be scum. You are the closest to town of my scumreads, but I didn't like wizrak's play and expect you to be playing more. Idk, maybe your just overloaded.

[ToastyToast]

Having a mason claim means having one confirmed townie. Furucolow, you say it can't be provable, but it is given that if scum claims it can be easily countered.

Llama, your points on SSS are a little streched out for me to acutally believe. Besides, it was your OWN SCUMMY ACTS that made myself skeptical about a glass lynch. Pointing out skepticism like that, if meant to be a point, must point to all. AND he said he would get on either lynch. Could be opportunistic scum or someone who thinks they have both scum.

Not voting yet because, as tclaw says, we need to be careful with votes. I only have one solid scum read on ya'all, that being tclaw. I plan to do an ISO on furuclow first (yeah, i know I keep speeling your name wrong) and then I will look if there is any reason to believe SSS suspicions.

My issue with llama is that I find it hard to believe that he's scum with Glass. On the other hand, I was convinced that he was werewolf because of his want to search for mafia instead. If I don't think there is enough evidence in the first 2, I'll ISO llama (again)

G'night folks

[ToastyToast]

mason killed ✔
backup mason killed ✔
mason claim worthless, and unprovable ✔
Furcolow is a townie? ✔

Why do you feel the need to call yourself a townie? We should be able to prove that with your posts
Unless there is a connection between dead masons and this post, this doesn't make sense.

[ToastyToast]

Those are bad assumptions.
1)Wait for him to say it
2)or you aren't
3)Reading into a mistake is not good; ANYONE WOULD HAVE TO ASK THE MOD WHAT WAS UP; if mason, mafia, VT didn't get a role, they wouldn't know what they were, would they? *facepalm*
4-5) Actually prove that, and where did Crazy call me wolf?

Also...

Both of you rotten mason-killing scum need to DIE!!!
BAH.

was written after your post and furuclows post--thats who he thinks is scum

[ToastyToast]

And using sheeping for defending someone is perhaps one of the dumbest things I've heard since being on this side.
Also, picking scum based off "process of elimination?" Thats BS that no one should actually listen to.

And Crazy got killed by mafia, not wolf. So I don't understand your speculation there.
I know what a "bah" post is, but you speaking for a dead player is odd. Especially given that last post, where he said BAH. Crazy subtly said his last thoughts in that post.

I really hate when people feel they have to announce to the world that they are town. If you are, I should be able to tell from your posts. But I can't. I also do not see scum in the posts of SSS and tclaw, both of whom didn't find it necessary to soft-claim.

Llama and furuclow are scum.

[ToastyToast]

EBWOP: side=website

[ToastyToast]

And using sheeping for defending someone is perhaps one of the dumbest things I've heard since being on this side.

Interactions between two players can both show that they are scum together, or NOT scum together. In this case, the way that Furc reacted to Glass being ran up was not how a partner to Glass would have reacted. He ignored the case on me by instead pushing on Glass when a bus would not have been necessary. I do not think they are scum together because of the sheep vote that Furc put on Glass. It was a weak vote that he probably wouldnt get much town credit for (like you arent giving him) and got his partner lynched, lose-lose situation.

So baaa sheep is less scummy than actually building up a case, ISO'ing, and being willing to look at a case you don't necessarily understand? I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. He was just like "WHEEE THIS ONE LOOKS GOOD!" I actually put time into my vote. And I was right.

Also, picking scum based off "process of elimination?" Thats BS that no one should actually listen to.

It works perfectly in open setups like this. We know the mason (SSS) is not scum. I know im town, so there are three players left, one town, one wolf, and one vanilla. If I can call the vanilla correctly (Furc), then I can say that for sure the other two players are scum. We ALWAYS use process of elimination in this game, its just rare it catches scum flat out instead of catches a "one of these two" situation. Pretend for a minute that you are actually vanilla - you have a 67% chance of lynching scum if you throw a dart. If you call one player town correctly, its a 100% scum shot. You not realizing this probably means you are scum because you never had this train of thought, as scum has one other scum and two vanilla to ID.

Your calling the vanilla incorrectly, your assuming mason would immediately claim he was a mason. Pretend for a minute that you are actually vanilla. If you call one player town incorrectly, YOUR FUCKED. Besides, by your logic, with process of elimination. I think SSS and tclaw are town. That makes you and furculow the obvious choices. Process of elimination is a useful tool, but it needs to be paired up with something more.

I know what a "bah" post is, but you speaking for a dead player is odd. Especially given that last post, where he said BAH. Crazy subtly said his last thoughts in that post.

You are right, Crazy was telling me and Furc who are town to go lynch the scum that havent posted (you and tcl). See, I can be dense about reading way too much into a bah post too. I have played with Crazy before, he wouldnt do anything that is cheating, which this would be if it was intentional. Again you overlook the fact that anything that Crazy wanted to say, he could have posted the mason talk and had his living partner/backup post it today.

Except that makes less sense; again, I pointed it out because your speaking for Crazy was odd. So I was like, where the hell did he say that?

I really hate when people feel they have to announce to the world that they are town. If you are, I should be able to tell from your posts. But I can't. I also do not see scum in the posts of SSS and tclaw, both of whom didn't find it necessary to soft-claim.

SSS is not scum, that was proven by everyone else claiming not-mason. tcla gets the scum read based on what I said previously, about him going way to far into detail about his slight town read on DRK, and that he is the odd man out on giving people reads, defaulting him to scum.

Did fur claim non-mason? Nope, he just said it was unprovable. And I think SSS is the mason, but you seem content in automatically confirming it so before anything happens.

This is going to be great. Me-Furc

town

scum vs you-tcl-SSS

scum

Town. Lets do this.

FTFY

Vote Toast

You are the wolf.

Vote: Llama

You are scum, make too many assumptions, use Crazy for backup when not much is actually there, still seem to be looking for wolf over mafia, and are too keen on auto-agreeing with other players. DIESCUMDIE

[ToastyToast]

You want reasons you say?

Well you got them, I will stick with the Toast-Glass interactions to start and do chck-Glass later

Glass: Don't understand this wagon. Consists of a counter from Crazy based on "lack of evidence" for llama, then llama quickly hops on it, with others following.

This is the catchup post into the game, immediately Toast takes a shot at the entire Glass wagon, zeroing in on Crazy who is the town leader at this stage, and me who is the other person being attacked. The rest of the wagon is just ignored. The wagon gets explained to him, so we get this

I read the game, and thought to myself, KRAZY WAS OBVTOWN. Other Crazy led the lynch, and so gained scum-points for managing to convince everyone.

Hmm good points. I'll have to ISO glass tonight.

So he goes look at Glass because the points against him are now good moving Glass to who knows where on his scumlist. We really never see any resolution for this ISO search though, he just drops it in hopes of it being forgotten about

Umm, 407 was my ISO. It came a little late, sure, but thats because I still was liking the Llama lynch.

Because I think llama is obvwolf and would rather have him lynched than glass?

Perfect way to keep suspicion on Glass but not vote him. Because I am the "better lynch" given the setup, it gives Toast the perfect reason to actively ignore Glass for as long as I am in the game, while still being able to distance and call him scum as much as he wants.

I wasn't ignoring him. Thats a misrep. I want all the scum lynched, and I thought I had found 3. You were my "most likely scum" read. I abandoned you for Glass because it got to the point where I knew you both needed death. You 95% and Glass 90%. Both good enough for me.

He does eventually vote Glass though, with quite a conditional to remove his vote

Glass has also failed to establish a good defense for himself.

So as soon as Glass starts shaping up, he can jump right back off him. In the meantime though he seems to go and make a lot of posts that really dont apply to the current gamestate. He also goes at takes a few shots at Furc in the meantime, preemptive case? So Glass gets to L-1, and Toast decides to unvote him so no one will hammer.

unvoting so no one will hammer is a null read, I thought it got to L-1 too fast, made me hesitate. What posts didn't apply? I asked other players questions to see where there head was at and find possible connections between players. Why can't I start forming a second case? I'm not narrow-minded, and there were 3 scum left. It was time to make that 2 positives turn into 3, furc and singer both stood out.

Instead of going back to Glass though, he again abandons the case and throws the vote on me, dropping back on the "wolf lynch is better" rhetoric, which is very interesting given that he is probably wolf with Glass. It was a way to look like he was doing what the other people wanted more (wolf lynch) while guarenteeing that his partner would be safe.

I NEED TO EXAMINE ALL MY SUSPECTS! Also, you can't use my late change of vote against me because Glass decided to self-lynch before I could even question her. I unvoted to give myself more hunting time, and ultimately found her explanation to be much better than yours (regarding which group to lynch)

By the way, what changed between

Twilight phase last thoughts: Llama is likely town--scum wouldn't banter that much.

and

My issue with llama is that I find it hard to believe that he's scum with Glass. On the other hand, I was convinced that he was werewolf because of his want to search for mafia instead.

and

Llama and furuclow are scum.

You just slowly kept changing your opinion on me as I started calling you scum it seems.

Twilight phase: honest belief, was curious as to why you would be bantering that much--oh wait, scum like to throw people off, don't they?
First change: If you knew a lynch between one of the two of you was probably going to happen, you could have intentionally distanced yourself. If you were opposing-scum, you would have wanted to avoid getting a NK.
Second change: This Day starts and BAM back to your ol'scummy self.
Noted: You didn't say much after Glass called your math BS.

Also, lets look at who you don't like....
Me (yeah, look how much I've gone after you since being here)
tclaw--was sort of in the middle throughout, but he did suspect you; he's very much a swing vote, and thus a threat.
SSS--suspected you at the beginning of D2; more important is this lolfest:
1)The fact that you barely mentioned him until now, and that your case consists on "he only subtley disliked Glass"
2)Oh, and whose wagon was he on? THATS RIGHT, YOURS. Later unvoted, but his lack of a vote on Glass supports his lack of a case on him as far as gut goes.
3)THIS IS THE FUNNY PART THOUGH!

Ugh.... and the final person claims "not mason" meaning my vote is in the wrong spot

unvote

Darn, just didn't turn out the way you wanted it, hmm? Were probably hoping someone else was a mason, so you could take someone out against you without being too obvious.So its, "AW MAN, THAT DIDNT WORK,SO...O.o.O.o I CAN GO AFTER THE ACTIVE ONE WHO WASN'T VOTING GLASS INSTEAD! YAYYYYYYY"

NOW, people you like:
Furcolow: Under the radar; said little about you or glass, but ultimately SHEEPED (aka, blindly agreed with little or no explanation) Glass. An odd choice.

OKay, I'm so done with long posts tonight.

[ToastyToast]

really don't have time for much right now, just saying i'm gonna get back to this game after i get all my homework done for tomorrow. might be a late night, so don't expect a post until tomorrow

I'll be waiting. My argument with Llama has gone circular, so we really need more input.

It has seriously turned into a cycle of me writing out all the reasons Llama has a bad argument and why he is scum, then his response of why he doesn't have a bad argument and why I'm scum. Not getting anywhere.

[ToastyToast]

With regards to the quote you mentioned, I only meant what I thought was expected. Glass was on L-1, it seemed as if people were ready to hammer him. If he claimed VT, it would mean nothing. If he claimed mason, however...we would either have a guaranteed scum via CC or a confirmed town that we would no longer have to focus our energy on.

Well, for one, no one seemed to have an attitude towards DRK. As you say yourself, there was much more going on. My guess is that chkflip saw a sure-scum in Krazy and failed to look at other players because of his conviction. As far as glass goes, Glass did not come off as scummy D1, and chkflip was obviously spending less time on the game. Llama's early aim for searching mafia definately would have set off an alarm, and I think he made the right call. Most of the Glass D2 drama happened only after I replaced in.

Other things for SSS:
You explain Llama's case on you as weak, but what do you think of how quick he formed it and how quick he went off of it?
Is Furcolow's sheeping on Glass a town-tell, as Llama suggests?

[ToastyToast]

I was voting for you D2, and had enough proof that was explained that day. Today, you immediately put a vote on SSS, someone who I've seen as leading town, then spout this idea that Furclow is town because he sheeped the Glass vote. Thats a summarized version, but thats why I'm voting you. It has nothing to do with the fact that your voting me, but I a defense to your accusations was warranted.

What side you are on is irrelevant--what matters is that we lynch correctly. The difference between my logic and yours is that I actually see proof in my scum reads. You have a case on me but nothing on tcl (I'm saying this based on your argument that you think SSs is mason and tclaw town). I unfortunately haven't had much of a chance to explain why I think furculow is scum, because I've been busy defending myself and attacking my other scum read.

I can see a situation when you are mafia, and when you are scum. 1)If mafia, it explains why you were so adamant on lynching Glass. You believed him to be a member of the other scum team; your attack ON mafia was relatively irrelevant, in that we ended up catching wolf. In other words, your "lynch mafia before wolf" attitude allowed for you to distance yourself from the actual team (mafia).

If wolf, your "lynch mafia before wolf" attitude stands. There seemed to be only 2 options for D2 lynches: you or Glass. As members of the SAME team, you thought distancing would allow one to be safe for a while.

[ToastyToast]

Your missing my point. I don't think you are scum because we differ in our reads, but I feel that all your votes are long stretches. Your case on SSS basically consists of "he was voting for me despite thinking Glass was scum." Your case on me is "He changed his mind about Glass too much." Note that these are basically the same thing, just with different results. I understand if you think I came off as wishy-washy D2, but I really did not understand the case on Glass from my first read through. After I ISO'd Glass, it started to click. So I voted, but not without making sure everyone knew you were a prime suspect. Why did I go back to vote you? Because glass' 'we should aim for wolf' was more convincing than 'we should aim for mafia.' Yeah, pretty ironic given that Glass flipped wolf.

And I still maintain that your Furculow town-read is based on poor information. Based on my experience with this site, sheeping is null at best. Yet, you use it as the base for your town-read and then argue that tclaw is scum based on "process of elimination." So, a bad reason for a town read then no reason at all for a scum read.

I read tclaw as town due to his actual scum hunting when he is here, his consideration of all sides of the arguments, and his seemingly independent votes. (for example, voting both furculow and SSS and picking up on things that others were missing).

I read furculow as scum because of his sheeping, his use of connections b/w players over proof in the actual person's play (not necessarily a scum read but cerainly not the way I would go about a vote), his "HAI GUSY I'M TOWN" post, gut, and active lurking with unhelpful points.

Writing this reminds me:
@Llama: Does SSS saying he's not mason change your mind about him?

[ToastyToast]

Considering I voted Glass on March 26th, and would have earlier when I read the first 10 or so pages before that disaster, I'd hardly call what I did sheeping. It was just a joke.

Llama has a town read on you based on that post, I'm pointing out how odd that is.
If it was a joke, why did you place down the vote w/o giving your own reasons?

See, unlike Llama, I read the vote as a possible partner move--voting when it seemed every player had strong suspicions on Glass in order to distance.

[ToastyToast]

I gave a giant case on Glass, that is NOT distancing.

And tclaw, you have my reads correctly. I also want an answer to tclaw's question, Llama, as you seem to have avoided mine.

[ToastyToast]

Is anyone going to claim mason? I just don't understand the point of keeping it a secret at this point. Having one confirmed town (yes, confirmed because scum wouldn't dare claim mason at the risk of a Counter-claim) is really helpful at this point, especially if one such player is a scum-read for people. Llama, SSS, and I are the only people who have legitimately claimed VT.

Why are you sure that I'm not mafia? It seems like the case on me is entirely based on distancing with Glass.
I agree with your strong town read on Tclaw, and SSS is still null. But null this late in the game is dangerous.

[ToastyToast]

I'm of the opinion that a mislynch would be disastrous, and thus having mason claim reduces the chances of that happening. There are 5 people left. Everyone has 4 suspects, and a mason claim reduces that to three.

Let me put it this way: If SSS happened to be mason and claims, and if you are town, then you would have to decide between myself, tclaw, and furculow. We already know your opinion on that matter.
But what happens if furculow or tclaw claim mason? Then that means ONE of us is wrong, and we will have to rethink our reads.
Even as non-mason, I still suspect furculow and yourself more. A mason claim could change that.

If see what you are getting at, but I feel like reducing the chances of a mislynch today is an absolute must, as that happening with or without a mason claim is disastrous.

[ToastyToast]

OK, I'm not seeing anything that's going to change my mind here.
VOTE: Toast
*crosses fingers*

More of a reason than "I think he's wolf" plz.

[ToastyToast]

I've already explained my switch back from Glass to Llama. My read on Llama was stronger at the time.
I really try to avoid using WIFOM but could someone explain to me why I would unvote Glass only to have my alleged partner self-vote?

I brought up mafia-wolf again because I had just replaced in and it seemed like the main topic of discussion D2.

[ToastyToast]

Well done Llama. Its funny how I thought you and glass were both wolf, but I was more sure about you hence all the vote-switching that ultimately got me lynched. Shouldn't have listened to your 'kill Crazy" thing and killed you instead lol.

Still, this was my first game as mafia and I had a lot of fun.
If anyone has advice on how I can improve it would be much appreciated.

[ToastyToast]

How did Llama not get lynched... I expressly explained that he was scum at the end of D1. Wow. Painful.

It was because of his crazy bussing skills on glass

[ToastyToast]

Let me know if u guys want to see mafiaQT. It is incredibly unexciting

[ToastyToast]

mafia QT

[ToastyToast]

I definitely wouldn't have killed you, you were more of a suspect. I do wonder what would've changed if we lynched llama and not you D2. It could really have been the exact same story, given how well you two pulled off the bussing thing.

I planned to kill SSS N3, but I think my going after Llama over furuclow was a BIG mistake. Also my switching of votes definitely was suspicious.

[ToastyToast]

yeah I think singer/furclow would have been targets for lynches. I needed singer dead (sorry, but, like, u know me and u were on to something). That was a really smart kill. I was surprised no one caught the relationship b/w the singer-kill (she was making a case against me after Glass was lynched. Not to mention the blatant "^^this is town" message DRK had with chkflip