Open 300 - Mafia on Midol (Town Wins!)

[Ranmaru]

Hey guys, Names Ran. I know Crazy a bit! Hello Crazy. I'm pretty new to this site. ;o

I'll be catching up shortly.

[Ranmaru]

@Crazy: Haha yeah. ;o It'll be nice. I don't know who those people are, haha. Yeah expect activity. Also expect no mercy from me xP

So far I'm on page 9. Will be finishing the other half later tonite, and I'll post notes accordingly. (It'll be a pbpa, the easiest for me to do when replacing in, lol, you guys will love me for it, unless you want a fuckload of quotes. Nah, you don't want that)

Sudo seems more anti-town then scum (so far) and I do not like DH (he replaced out) nor Thor. Replacing out has nothing to do with alignment wrt to llamapluff calling him town for that. Chkflip seems null to me, and just seemed to be wagoning on DH even though his case on him was postponed. That was a null action. Doesn't seem scummy to me though. Saw plum make a case on Chkflip but guess that didn't work out. More later.

[Ranmaru]

Btw I have two tabs up of this thread. I looked at Page 17 earlier because I like to see what was the latest issue in a game while I am catching up. (Because I said I was up to page 9, and still am, I just like to skip ahead so I have a partial idea of what is happening before I fully read up)

[Ranmaru]

Mod: Why is Chkflip voting himself? Last I saw he voted Sudo :3

Whoops! Tis fixed now.

On that note, I was going to yell at Chkflip for voting himself, yet I didn't find a vote to follow suit. : D

Unvote
Vote: Nacho

Better direction is this way guys. ;o There is only one post I liked from Llama puff. Don't like the rest. That's why I'm good with Thor going before Llama. Don't like Thor asking Agar for meta, and then trying to say Crazy is town. FUCK THAT. DH/Nacho ain't town either and I'm not buying it. I have read up on you a bit and I like your playstyle but not your play here. Nacho voted Chkflip with some quotes as reasons. I'll just say it's omgus and he is voting Chkflip for a null tell, which was wagoning. He didn't quote any of Chkflip's posts about voting NS for inactivity, so he didn't really care about that. He only cared about Chkflip voting HIM, since the quotes involved his slot. Nacho can die a fiery death. Agar and Zito are town to me, I like them alot. Didn't like Agar's vote tho, but I get where he is getting at with Crazy and I will encourage him to push it further. Fate is null to me. I get his playstyle, but I don't know what the fuck he is doing. I guess I disagree with him on some stuff. I don't like Cyberbob, most likely for calling Fate a bully. Who cares, that has nothing to do with alignment. Even so, I think Cyber is slightly town. Cept I disagree with him about Thor and Llama. Plum fluffs alot with quotes and stuff. Bleh. Does some analysis on Chkflip and then votes NS wtf. I skimmed her second long post, but her first long post I re-read and noticed very short statements in reply to some quotes. Plum is useless. Oman? Don't care. (skimmed his posts)

Crazy scum. SP? I dunno. Null. Punkin? Null. Ces? Null, don't know what he is doing. He wagons, and then asks others to join. So this means he thinks that person is scum, and he's not wagoning to wagon. I don't know him, so I assume he's either already read the person who he is wagoning, or is lazy and just pretending to look like he cares about that person dying. "HEY GUYS CMON FILL IT UP WITH COAL NOT THAT I CARE ;o" Nikanor replaced, dunno about that. Flaky. Nikanor > NS for lurking death. NS is wagoned for lurking I guess, Don't care about him.

Sudo is really anti-town and hasn't scumhunted at all. Well, he is voting Nacho. I'm good with Nacho dying instead of Sudo. Still wondering how else Sudo is helping though.

About Zorb's lal thing, I don't care about it. I'm all for scummy lynches. If town gets paranoid, we might have room for a lurker lynch. Pick wisely. Also, if I have a semi-scummy person, and a lurker who I can't read, I'd pick the lurker in that case. If Super scummy vs Lurker, I'd take the SS.

Plus I love red starbursts.

This is my first time doing a pbpa for replacing in. If you would have rather had quotes, too bad. I'm not going back to put them all up now. It's alot if you want to track my thoughts, but just try to look for yourself and answer accordingly or give thoughts/opinions.

Here is the pbpa:
=====================================

Dh:
106: I would assume Crazy was null to him.
120 123: Tries to shift suspicion off himself and onto Fate, his attacker. His 123 Really reeks of survival instinct, not scumhunting.
127: Says Scum are always opportunistic, but how would he know that? This is null, scum can be patient too.
150: By this post it just seems DH is trying to point out every little thing to dig himself out of his own grave.
156: DH ignores Crazy getting off his wagon, and instead shifts suspicion off himself and onto Socio.
158 159: Omgus, and stating that he doesn’t care if he is lynched, but asks people to take their eyes of him anyways. Second part just reeks of trying to look town.

CES:
#121: Reads as semi-serious comment on DH’s wagon not fully functional.
274: K, you hop on Sudo. I guess you didn’t feel like commiting on a read for yourself.
325: Huh? Why do you feel more people should get on? I thought you were just wagoning because you had no idea who was scum or was too lazy. Explain plz.

Fate:
137: Err, no. We will have a claim for everyone, no matter what.
139: Why do scum want their whines heard? (I think our scumreads SHOULD talk, I will ask my scumreads to, that way we are getting info)
144: You are right about the playstyle thing. It should be null.
247: Don’t be sad, be glad. Anyways, please scumhunt instead of showing sadness over being excluded from an alliance, which is pretty small. I’m pretty sure others have been excluded too, not just you. Your contentless posts here compelled Cyberbob into posting nonsense too and it’s an anti-town discussion altogether.
254: Why would you ask for that? That doesn’t help town discussion. Big deal you insulted someone.
311: Why is Crazy town?. Agar pushing DH slot is fine, not lulz silly.
324: No it’s not. I like it.

Sudo:
142: Only comes into re-iterate that the four things Cyber told him he could commented on, weren’t worth commenting on. Very anti-town, not helping. Doesn’t even comment on Fate vs DH. Wtf.
199: Ok, so you call out Oman. Then you try to lay suspicion on someone else for not being called out on the same thing. But you do have a point in Thor being tunnely. I agree with your last point wrt to DH.
224: Err, why don’t you have an opinion on any of those things? Are you afraid to stick your neck out for the town or what?

Sociopath:
149: Why is LF not as town as everyone thinks? – Oh wait now I might believe you. Why did you think this early on anyways?

Crazy:
155: You backing of DH because you think scum wouldn’t do that? I think you are just afraid of taking the blame for his steamy wagon.
218: Isn’t that null? It can go either way. Hell I know, don’t know the guy.
227: How is Agar and SP scummy? Err you were on the wagon, were you not? Btw, does it seem like the people on the wagon are just on for the ride, or pushing it along?
269: Lol Crazy and your crazy omgus. Get off of Agar, I like that guy. Go back on Sudo, your vote is better there. Whoa you discern big quote walls as scummy? Thought those were town to you. Explain why Agar’s big post with a vote was scummy please. He left it because you seemed to have distanced on the wagon, wouldn’t you believe town would do that?
273: Why do you seem like you are ok with Punkin voting you? Did he give reasons later? What did you think of them if so?

Chkflip:
88: Ok, you have some scum reads, a lot of nulls, and two town reads. You explained your town read on Zito, but you didn’t say why Fate is town to you. Your comment to him would imply you think he is talking a lot, amirite? Please help me because I’m reading a bit too much into it.
163: “Forgets” to make a case. This makes his reason being a wagon attempt, then.
296: Pst, now you are pushing on Nobody Special from not posting even though there were others who had not posted much, such as the person I replaced? Come on, try to find another scum pick.
322: Good man. I might like you if you continue to do this.
384: Meh, Idc. Sudo is pretty anti-town, but Crazy is pretty questionable himself. What do you think of Sudo voting his null? (If I am to understand that was your reason)

Thor:
176: Why can’t scum be aggressive, simplistic, or ring leader like? Explain how DH exhibited these traits too. I’d think scum would be aggressive and simplistic if they are shifting suspicion off themselves and pointing out every little thing to get himself dug out his own grave.
Chkflip just wagoned, big deal.
So far Sudo just reads as Anti-town to me, not scummy. Explain that further please.
I do not believe that wagon was made of fail, stop trying to belittle town’s scumhunting. You should be on DH’s case for trying to lay craptraps.
258: I don’t give a fuck, whether if it’s my second or first time playing with crazy, that’s a stupid [ and crazy, pun intended] reason for him to get off. So meta doesn’t matter. I t’s obvious as plain day that Agar would be looking at Crazy’s actions within THIS game and not base it on others. Who cares what Crazy does as town or not, he can’t be off the hook because of doing it regardless of alignment. Don’t belittle Agar’s case because he didn’t use meta. You also call DH town, and llama too. All of you should die. Sudo is very anti-town and has trouble commenting and scumhunting, but you guys are really on his dick for that. You have a townread on DH, so obv you believe in the second scenario. I don’t believe town would really think that. If so, he has to get rid of the easy button.
267: So what. That doesn’t help reading Crazy.
349: What is YOUR read on Agar? What is your read on Llama? Crazy?

Agar:
193: I like you. *Nohomox10
256: I agree. I feel as though Crazy is really trying hard to distance off of the OBVTOWN DH.
297: Huh? Why did you use meta to declare Zito town, yet you would never use meta to clear a scumread as null/town? I feel as though you are a bit biased here. This is unfair to Crazy. (He still shouldn’t use dumb reasons)
298: Uh, why? He seems more null than scum.
376: Huh? Cmon, don’t go on NS. I feel as though you shifted to conform. I liked your vote on Crazy.

Llamafluff:
231: Why is Sp probably scum?
246: Uh, no. Great a town alliance of four people in an 18 man game.
250: Hmmm, wow. Most content I’ve seen from you, and I like it… I disagree, I like Fate’s aggro style.
303: Wow don’t you look town?
345: Get the fuck off of Agar. Town alliance my ass.
391: Bullshit. You only unvoted because he voted NS now…. (I think)

Cyberbob:
240: Wait what, can you quote those two things so I can compare them? What’s wrong with thinking the DH wagon was good? How is that post scummy? It seems null to me. He points out what he would do as town and mafia in regards to DH’s death. I’d read into it further but I’d like to know why you are pointing that out. Thing? That just seems like fluff to add to your three other points. Nice.
241: I could understand Sudo being scummy for 1. Not scumhunting 2. Not giving opnions 3. Not helping town. Now, you say he is scummy for not making sense, how would this favor scum and why is it scummy? Maybe, it would be consistent with Sudo not scumhunting, could agree with that. Hurr? Does that make Sudo scum > Socio town or what? Also I find Socio null, but not scummy. How does Fate’s preference of a player affect that player’s alignment?
242: Talk about playstyle stuff after the game damn it.
245: I disagree on all three. DH > Thor > Llama. Explain how he exhibits VI tells. Explain Fate’s case on himself please. I like Agar. NS I don’t really care about. Votes Punkin just to shut him up.
248: Stop being an asshole and scumhunt. (Not that Fate should post dumb shit either)
255: So what of that? You have a point, but big deal. Mafia is serious business. Even so, how does that help you with scumhunting? So fate insulted DH to the point of replacing out. Does that make him scum? No, just makes him a jerk. ;o
314: I agree. Chkflip is null, not scum. And the Crazy votes are fine bro.

Punkin:
272: I like that vote.
320: I agree. Lol.
388: Why did you let Thor get his way then? Why not fight it? You know, give your own reads instead of follow Thor.

Nachomamma:
288: Explain the vote on Chkflip. I do know he wagoned, and is targeting inactives, but I’d like to hear you explain it.
370: Then why did you do that if it’s not Impressive?
419: … Agar please respond. I have something to say about this.

Papa Zito:
337: Why? : [ I think Nacho > NS.
347: Whoa, I like you Zito. Llamapuff can die.
Nobody Special: What? No, NO DICE on Chkflip. He voted for inactivity though. Everyone was on your for lurking. It’s the same thing. He did what MANY others have done. You are just making it separate for him because he saw llamapluff posting in other games while lurking here. You only voted Chkflip to wagon him with Plum and others. Gtfo.

Plum:
355: Skimmed that post. Saw that vote, it’s really dumb. Get off him. Lotsa quotes fluffs up this post, don’t see much content from you. I’d lynch you waaayy before Chkflip.

[Ranmaru]

"I have read up on you a bit and I like your playstyle but not your play here"

That was wrt to Thor. >_< Not to Nacho.

[Ranmaru]

EBWOP: Lol, the line under Papazito that says Nobody special is in reference to NS. Sorry : [ I would have loved to have your post number. In fact I'll look for it : D

Ah, your #356. : 3

[Ranmaru]

: D

Thor:
176: Why can’t scum be aggressive, simplistic, or ring leader like? Explain how DH exhibited these traits too. I’d think scum would be aggressive and simplistic if they are shifting suspicion off themselves and pointing out every little thing to get himself dug out his own grave.
Chkflip just wagoned, big deal.
So far Sudo just reads as Anti-town to me, not scummy. Explain that further please.
I do not believe that wagon was made of fail, stop trying to belittle town’s scumhunting. You should be on DH’s case for trying to lay Smurftraps.
258: I don’t give a Smurf, whether if it’s my second or first time playing with crazy, that’s a stupid [ and crazy, pun intended] reason for him to get off. So meta doesn’t matter. I t’s obvious as plain day that Agar would be looking at Crazy’s actions within THIS game and not base it on others. Who cares what Crazy does as town or not, he can’t be off the hook because of doing it regardless of alignment. Don’t belittle Agar’s case because he didn’t use meta. You also call DH town, and llama too. All of you should die. Sudo is very anti-town and has trouble commenting and scumhunting, but you guys are really on his Smurf for that. You have a townread on DH, so obv you believe in the second scenario. I don’t believe town would really think that. If so, he has to get rid of the easy button.
267: So what. That doesn’t help reading Crazy.
349: What is YOUR read on Agar? What is your read on Llama? Crazy?

I have a beard too but it is itchy. ;-; I have sensitive skin.

176 - Why is that? I don't know him. Can you give examples?

Well I'm ok with Sudo going, I just believe DH was scummier. Why is that, because of meta, or just a hunch? Why do you believe Nacho will help? I'm confused, you mean to say Sudo is scummy for not being present for the RVS and not voting? Btw I saw Nacho in the boards but he didn't respond.

I will. Seems more likely then town. If town, then dumb town. Also, if he really believed in it, he should have stayed in and fought for his beliefs. (But <3 u nacho)

258 - Well I don't rely on meta, but I'd like some examples of Crazy doing these things as both alignments. I don't believe Crazy should be left off the hook simply because of meta. Again, I don't know why Agar used meta to clear Zito, but I guess it's because they have a strong bond or something. (I have explained that) It's like this, there is meta, and your actions in-game. I don't mind if meta is used, but not solely by itself. If someone always does something as town, whose to say they won't do it as scum? Deff need quotes from other games to see what you mean. I am playing with Crazy in another game and now I'm not sure of my read of him if you say he does this regardless of alignment. (Weird reasons and logic)

267 - You refer to vi's being statistically town alot. So what? How does that help in reading Crazy for you?

349 - Well I asked for reads and I stuck Crazy in there, big deal. Glad it made you laugh though. Ah, Agar's town to me. I disagree. Huh, why not? Did I say you couldn't? You can.

Hey why no milk ;-; Mouth is getting dry and Milk > Cookies

[Ranmaru]

388: Why did you let Thor get his way then? Why not fight it? You know, give your own reads instead of follow Thor.

At the time, Sudo was (and still is) second on our suspect list. Moreover, I already explained the reason for the vote in #418.

The comment to Thor was cheekiness.

This is worrisome, as she tends to be more passive as scum.

She's never been scum. If you're referencing f2f mafia, there are some factors you are overlooking.

TOLD YOU TROLL WAS TOWN.

Patience, padawan. Making a WoT catch up post is something I've seen scum do many times. I did give him townpoints for something in it, but I didn't bother reading the the whole PbPA and his

question to me

, at least, shows that he is not reading as deeply as he'd like it to seem. Meanwhile #447 seems like:

OMG I said I was on page nine, they're gonna catch me

. Most telling of all is Zorb's activity level. SP and Sudo can back me up on how many times we've heard Zorb, himself, state that he only lurks as scum.

Then again, there are better candidates.

Like

chkflip

. Those of you who would like to hang scum, especially those on my town list, should check out his iso.

By the numbers, chk is far scummier than Sudo

or

NS. Interesting, because the way we weighted the numbers for lurking gave NS maximum scumpoints, Sudo moderate scumpoints, and chk

maximum town points

; meaning that, by behavior alone, chk is even worse in comparison. We can talk about the specifics of those tells when I have a little more time (tonight or tomorrow).

Oh, that was all I needed then. I skimmed a few things, but I'm good. I just didn't know that you were joking when you said "You will have your way this time, Thor!" I just like to try to get done as fast as possible. I disagree. Chkflip doesn't seem scummy at all. Explain why he is scummier than Sudo or NS. (Sudo > NS really) hurr? Chk lurks? *looks* Well it seems he has more posts than NS and Sudo woodo. Don't see how it makes him worse in comparison.

[Ranmaru]

256: I agree. I feel as though Crazy is really trying hard to distance off of the OBVTOWN DH.

Well, I was literally the first person to say that DH was obv-town.

And you are voting Nacho. I take that to mean you think DH was scum. If DH was scum, then why am I suspicious for

distancing

myself from an obv-town wagon?

Please tell me how this makes sense.

Yep. I meant you were pushing away from his wagon by saying that he was obv town. Your reasons for it were very bad.

[Ranmaru]

Current reads include everything Xine has noted but, like I said, I still intend to discuss things with her since 80% of the work so far has been mine. Anyway...

This is worrisome, as she tends to be more passive as scum.

Sociopath:
149: Why is LF not as town as everyone thinks? – Oh wait now I might believe you. Why did you think this early on anyways?

His views of the player base seem disingenuous based on my experiences with him previously.
Instead of forging solid town credit, he goes for a silly alliance to influence those named and NOT named for it.
Its a voting block made for all the wrong reasons.
Its all feigning.
And considering his previous experiences with me, his view of me seems far fetched.

I really don't like anything he says or stands for.
Is one of the better people to lynch as well, just to look at the alliance from a new angle.

Yeah I really don't like that he unvoted Agar because Agar switched to Sudo. This means he really didn't think Agar was scummy, just disagreeing with him.

[Ranmaru]

325: Huh? Why do you feel more people should get on? I thought you were just wagoning because you had no idea who was scum or was too lazy. Explain plz.

Because Sudo is scum, duh.

o rly. You only hopped on because there were 5 people already on Sudo. You have 5 more posts than Sudo now. Does that make you scum with him? Why or why not?

(I remember Sudo being told to post content, and same for CES, got some flak from DH)

[Ranmaru]

Good news with the Sudo-Stall:

If he's town, scum are on the wagon already.

Really? Who would you lynch if Sudo flipped town? I'd go for Thor/Llama puff.

[Ranmaru]

325: Huh? Why do you feel more people should get on? I thought you were just wagoning because you had no idea who was scum or was too lazy. Explain plz.

Because Sudo is scum, duh.

o rly. You only hopped on because there were 5 people already on Sudo. You have 5 more posts than Sudo now. Does that make you scum with him? Why or why not?

YARR RLY! That was the original reason for my vote, yes (although it was actually 4 votes). So? I'm not scum with Sudo since I am town.

K. Who else is scum?

Since you voted DH before I assume you still think Nacho is scum too right?

[Ranmaru]

@Thor:
Well I don't trust your gut read. Can you demonstrate why your gut reads him in that way?


Hmmm, I agree, now that I ISO'd both Sudo and Nacho. Nacho has 10 posts, and Sudo has 16 so far. I see a little more scumhunting from Nacho, and shift of suspicion from Sudo, and explanations such as "I didn't feel those things were worth my opinions". I wonder what analysis he DID bring in. (Since he says that he wouldn't want to drown the town with worthless analysis, so what IS worth analysing for him? What IS he doing for the town?)

No, not at all.

Oh, ok. Well this is the first time I see you state a read on Crazy:

@CES/Thor/Cyberbob

Why Sudo still?

Um...because up until just a few hours ago when two people unvoted while I wasn't around he was still the biggest wagon and I still find him scummy and want him lynched and was even trying to get Oman onto it? Besides, you're on a wagon with absentee Nikanor and chkflp - it can't be

that

stellar. Also, looking at the other big wagons we have Crazy (who I have a slight town read on) and Nacho who I have a town read on thanks to DH that he is totally not taking advantage of by being awesome and town ). I'm not getting behind either of those terrible things. I'd rather lynch Socio or policy lynch Zorblag or Nikanor than hop on them.

@Llama - Is the AGar case something more than his exactitude (pedanticness?) towards Crazy's gamestyle? Because that's pretty normal AGar play in my experience. It's also not that far distant from why I'm rampaging on Sudo (though at least Crazy chooses to tell his attacker to sod off rather than Sudo's soft sell 'ignore and hope it goes away' method)

Also, he's clearly not unique in disliking Crazy's play

- what's your read on the rest of the wagon and does that have anything to do with your AGar issues?

Why exactly do you have a town read on Crazy? Can you explain the bold please?

Oh, ok. Hmmm, I agree, poor play shouldn't be based on alignment.

No. I was catching up. I don't keep tabs of peoples stances, instead I just respond to each post number in word. I just overlooked your read on crazy earlier, and asked for your stance on him. Take it as you will. Or however that phrase goes.

[Ranmaru]

Sudo's contributions:

• Punkin vote was RVS.
  
• Describes the Crazy wagon was just an RVS wagon.
  
• Shifts suspicion onto CES. Is correct, yet CES has voted and given more stances than Sudo. (CES stated NS and SUDO are scum, Sudo has only stated that Nacho is scum)
  
• Demonstrates that DH's reads are weak.
  
• Comfortable with RV after such a long time, and is ok with solely commenting on things. (This could be looked upon as fake contributing)
  
• Was prepared to vote DH, but not at l-2. Wonder why Sudo didn't vote when people unvoted DH after replacing.
  
• Mentions he doesn't want to post worthless reads
  
• States that he tends to play slowly, but hasn't done anything to make up for what he lacks.
  
• Votes Nacho [His only non-rvs vote] only when asked about his read on him. Why didn't he vote Nacho when Fate unvoted?

@

Questions to Sudo:

What analysis have you stirred up by now? Hopefully you have observed something.
If you have worthless reads, why not wagon along with others [that you believe are townie] to at least help the town in some way?
How do you find scum with your playstyle? What do you believe are the pro's and con's to it? Help us understand so we can work together.
Why did you vote Nacho when Llama asked you about him? Right after DH replaced out, Fate unvoted. Why not vote at that time?
What are your reads on Thor/Llama/Crazy/Punkin/Cyberbob? Who would you lynch after Nacho?

Here is where I extract his contributions from, everything else didn't matter:

Spoiler:

vote: Punkin Excuse me for needing an avatar check to recognize the hydra. I would have expected a Star Wars reference myself. Maybe something to do with a mentor figure of some kind.

Sudo may not have made any super impact yet, but CES hasn't, either. The fact that you'd try to call me out for not being super serious in RVS, while be fine with CES doing the same, speaks of tunnel vision, at the very best. I won't bother quoting the rest of your post, largely because it's ridiculous. "Shamefail," seriously? The whole thing reads like you're trying to make the facts fit the circumstances, rather than the other way around, and it's not a good place to be.

Except all your reads are weak, at best, which certainly qualifies to the point I'm making- that you're grasping at straws. Your Fate read may as well be based on air; the PZ case is even worse. You claim that it was an "Obvious Setup to Catch Scum", which based on town reaction, it was not. Jumping on Troll for a basic Lynch All Lurkers post in RVS is super weak. And Socio had a number of good reasons why you're scummy, even if he didn't switch his vote until later. Hell, I find you scummy, and I'm not currently voting you, either. I fail to see how that affects the nature of the posts.


Yep. It's an RV, but I've not been too motivated to vote for anyone else, yet. I'd have voted DH, if he hadn't to L-2 so quickly. I'll UNVOTE: , if that helps you. I've been posting the best way I know how, which is to comment on what I see. Sometimes it's more useful than others. And technically, defending myself and slinging mud was largely the same target, so it's closer to two and half things. But in any event, I've yet to see anything else that sticks out enough to be worth commenting on, to be honest. It's still early in the game, and DH was the noise. Now it's time to look for a new signal, of course.

Suspecting a person, and lynching a person are two different things. I was 100% behind the wagon for sure, and you can put that on the record. But there was still discussion going on, and I wasn't prepared to put him at L-1 so early, while talks are still occuring. By no means do I believe in dragging a game out, but it is still very early in what is promising to be a long one. The replace request has muddied the waters, I admit, but it doesn't change my opinion that the slot is scummy, and whoever replaces DH will be tainted by his actions. Like I said, though, there are town tells, and the replacement certainly isn't condemned.

And for going on a limb and commenting at random- your sarcasm aside, wouldn't commenting on a thing I have no opinion on just make things less clear, by providing useless data? As town, it's my imperative to make sure that communication is clear and effective, is it not?

Reads are developed by making meaningful analysis. Meaningful analysis requires meaningful posts. Analyzing worthless posts generates worthless reads. Worthless reads do nothing to help the town. Why would you want me to generate worthless content? Why would you want anyone to generate worthless content? Because it seems like an utter waste of time.

Because the replacement deserves a chance to talk. And I'm willing to believe that others think that DH is genuinely town, given his request for replacement. Here's a question: why are you trying to dictate my play? I do as I think logical, which may or may not always be the case. I tend to play very slowly, and deliberately, and I don't believe that it's a bad style, even if it lacks the aggression that people seem to demand.

Still scummy, to the point where I'll vote: Nachomamma, now that it isn't at L-1. Nachomamma's been alright so far, though, so I reserve the right to change my mind on the basis of goodposting from Nacho.

[Ranmaru]

I think you found a contradiction within CES's motives.

[Ranmaru]

@Thor:

About that, I was just irritated that Nacho didn't post responses to me. Didn't call nacho scummy for lurking tho.

No, I'd like to see Sudo respond to my 486 first.

Oh ok, please do. Oh ok.

[Ranmaru]

Sup llamapuff. Thoughts?

[Ranmaru]

Psst. Look at my 486^. I'll decide after Sudo replies, if he does. ;o

What do you think of my 486?

awww. ;-; can I call you puff? Oh, I'm sorry. Hmmm, I dunno. I don't know any other terms for 'fluff'. If you can suggest an alternative, than maybe. If not, no go.

[Ranmaru]

Nah. I'd like to have answers before hopping on anything. [You know, I'm trying to question Sudo before I make an analysis here] Scum have info, we don't. I tried to make it as concise as possible, and I even put the quotes in spoilers. :3 (I hate using spoilers though, be glad I didn't force you to look at the quotes ;o )

Also I think Agar is town.

[Ranmaru]

Yeah, I'll comment on it soon. : D

[Ranmaru]

@Ran - You have to be insane here if you think that Nacho could possibly be scum given the way he has come into the game. There has been lots of interest in four people to the extent that they have had a legitimate chance of being lynched; Sudo, NS, Crazy and DH/Nacho. What Nacho has done upon entering the game is actually freely scumhunt instead of moving into survival tactic in any way. Why would scum come into the game and try and take down chck who quite a few of the more power players in the game has decided is leaning town, or at least are conflicted on? If he wanted to just look for life, he could have followed what was already there, yet he tried to quietly (key word) blaze his own trail.

Doing that shows motive of trying to find scum instead of either fiegn it or just not be lynched. He even has a back and forth with one of the big names (NS) and doesnt move his vote there, choosing to keep it one a player who is really not going to get lynched. Now he moves it to Nik, which on a side eis a comepletly decent vote since Nik lurks like no other when he is scum, instead of bandwagoning, again. This is not the behavior of someone who is scum, but someone who is town and trying to catch scum. Plus he is not lurking that badly, Nacho-scum is much quieter than Nacho-town. I just see lack of scum motives from that slot, and had a netural to leaning town read on DH given the quick wagon formation that I really never followed well, which tends to be a town getting wagoned flag.

You dont give a case on him really either, you just accuse him of OMGUSing chck. When he replaced in it would be kinda hard not to OMGUS someone since half the game was pushing on him. Plus I do see (some) of what I think he is getting at in those quotes, especially the first one which is all kinds of nasty.

Sudo is doing as close to nothing as possible. He hasnt really built much of a DH case, but made every move possible to stay off the wagon early, citing high vote fears, which really arent anything to be afraid of if you make it well known that you are putting someone at a high number of votes, especially if you are going to snap the vote as soon as they lose a few, which apparently was his plan. Apart from that,

what has he done?

Commented on Zorb lurking? Well he has flaked so point there is gone... think he has made a few other small comments, but for the most part he is making attempts to defend himself and his playstyle instead of actually trying to catch scum, the exact opposite of what Nacho is doing here.

So yeah, Nacho is town. Sudo is scum. Move your vote accordingly..

Ok, I got ya.

Oh well I just thought that he could have put in the quote with Chkflip talking about NS. I said omgus because it was mostly related to Nacho, but I guess you have a point that he'd naturally be omgusing because his slot was wagoned. You do, what did you see? (Nacho did explain it though and I am glad he did)

In the bold, I have expressed mostly what Sudo has done in my 486. I'll consider what to do with Sudo after he responds.

What is your read on CES? Punkin?

@ Punkin. If that was a concerning aspect, why didn't you ask CES anything about it? Btw, I do not think Llama's 493 was only about lurking. What is your read on CES and Llama?

Crazy follow me. I think you got CES, btw.

Unvote Vote: CES

[Ranmaru]

Ok, thank you. Still waiting on Sudo woodo, Zito, Plum, Chkflip, Cyberbob...

[Ranmaru]

Hey Sudo Woodo! Can you respond to my 486? Thank you :3

[Ranmaru]

He's gone... ;-;

[Ranmaru]

Hey Agar glad to see you are back... This means I have been on for too long ;-;

[Ranmaru]

Hahahahahahaha... Well I was on for a long time, but I wasn't waiting for you. I'm just pretty excited with my games is all.

Ok glad to hear it.

[Ranmaru]

@Agar: So? I hydrad with my friend Kuzi and I thought he coasted as scum. Turned out, he coasted regardless of alignment. That cost me a townie death. (I shot him)

I re-read and noticed that all came from DH's first post. When I first read that, I thought it was a joke...

Agar, do you still think Crazy is scummy?

What are your thoughts on Thor/Llama/Punkin/CES?

[Ranmaru]

Socio: Can you give me your reads on Thor/Crazy/CES?

[Ranmaru]

Seriously. I saw Sudo post 20 minutes before I said "Sudo is online" yesterday. ...

Unvote
Vote: Sudo

[Ranmaru]

Silly Thor, assuming I pay any attention to you.

I won't be able to post more in this game till tomorrow.

So wait, why don't you pay attention to Thor? Who DO you pay attention to and why?

Sudo was here yesterday, don't you think he should have replied already? What do you think about my #486.

[Ranmaru]

Why is that, Oman? (Second line)

[Ranmaru]

K, he's at L-1 now. Would like a claim now.

[Ranmaru]

It's been 4 days since Chkflip posted, and 5 since Papa Zito posted.

Mod: Are Chkflip and Papa Zito near prodding range?

[Ranmaru]

Vote AGar

Stuff still bugs me, I will dig up the case on him later. Nothing else to report.

Hmmm, what do you think of Socio's reason for voting you? Is it legit?

Crazy, follow me.

Vote: CES

[Ranmaru]

minor tells are all i have anymore...


Anyway, as far as chkflip goes: the thing with him and my read of him is that I'm awful at distinguishing between bad, overly earnest town and bad scum so while my head reads these cases against him and agrees that he's scummy... my gut is a lot more conflicted. I'd support his lynch because he's

annoying

and

probably

scummy, but not so much with people like AGar and sociopath running around.

First bold, is stupid. Shouldn't lynch someone just because they are annoying. (Why don't you explain how Chk is annoying to you so he can stop). Second bold, how is he 'probably' scummy?

[Ranmaru]

unvote
Vote AGar

Plum just explained it better than I could.

I'd still like for you to explain it somehow. Tell me in one sentence why you are feeling an Agar lynch toDay.

[Ranmaru]

Also, dissenter wagons are spread out versus NS, which tells me no more than two scum among Crazy/PZ/CES/AGar; maybe only one. This also tells us that there is no more than one scum each among Ran/Llama, same with TS/Oman, and Plum gains town cred.

Not much to note here, except as a point of comparison for the next two VCs. Ran pointlessly added pressure to the Nacho wagon which could go either way at this juncture, but see below.

We added pressure to the NS wagon and there was very little movement in response. Tells me scum was already entrenched on Sudo (see below). Ran looks like Goldilocks trying to find the right bed; scumpoints.

Town was sealed into this and pulling it off was almost a technicality for scum. Our slot was willing to hammer and so was Fate, which means decent chance of one scum among Ran/SP with the former more likely than the latter. Also note that Sudo was "just right" for Ranilocks.

I thought it was odd people were giving up on DH so quickly, I tried to add pressure to it...

I saw Sudo post else where and I spent time in trying to get his thoughts. You noting the same thing twice or something? I only voted Sudo once.

Also, I didn't understand what NS was trying to say to me, I thought he was just joking.

[Ranmaru]

I'd still like for you to explain it somehow. Tell me in one sentence why you are feeling an Agar lynch toDay.

Not sure if I have time to. Have to go take a final in about 20 minutes.

Why do you feel we shouldnt lynch him?

Sorry, I missed this. Do you have time now?

I'm not feeling a scummy vibe from him. Only thing I don't like is his meta on PZ when he hates meta, but meh. I'll re-read him.

You noting the same thing twice or something?

The thing I pointed out with the Ranilocks (Goldimaru?) reference only got you one black mark. Bombast aside, it refers to your fickle vote finally settling on the lead mislynch. Stated more than once because the pattern appeared across multiple VCs.

Oh ok. Well I was considering voting him before that but I wanted some answers from him first, and I saw him posting else where. I iso'd him (as you can tell in #463) for nothing.

Ranmaru, you seem a little "toned down" here in comparison to the Newbie game we were in. Would you agree with that?

Also, I don't want to lynch CES or even chk today. My vote is not coming off AGar until he's lynched, even if that takes several days.

What is your opposition to AGar being scum?

I have been busy. But you could say that.

My only thoughts are WTF at day ending so quickly.

As I said above, I don't think Agar is scummy. Why not CES or chk?

[Ranmaru]

Yeah I didn't catch up in this game over the two nights. Sotty was pretty on the ball and I was kinda thinking we might be nk'd on reputation?

Punkin, don't tell me how to play, thx.

Vote: Punkin

Happy?

Townpoints for Punkin

, and there's probably a scumbag somewhere on the Sudo wagon as it was circa 225: {LlamaFluff, Cyberbob, Crazy, Thor665,

Fate

, Punkin}

Bold, who cares.

Second bold, why does NS voting Punkin give him townie points? Isn't this null?

[Ranmaru]

Hmmm, what do you think of Socio's reason for voting you? Is it legit?

Crazy, follow me.

Vote: CES

Why name crazy in particular?

Because Crazy would agree with me.

[Ranmaru]

Unvote: PapaZito
Vote: chkflip

Here's my case;
I'm feeling checked out of the game at the moment.
There is no support for a PapaZ lynch.
Punkin just produced possibly the best supported VCA I've ever seen and nobody is backing his play after it.

May I ask what that whole post has to do with Chk?

Can you give me your reads? (At least your scum reads)

What are your thoughts on Punkin, Socio, and Llama?

[Ranmaru]

Are you?

Read this and this and then answer my question. Jury's still out on Oman,

if you know what I'm talking about.

Tell you what, I'll put AGar @ L-2 as soon as the Not Voting list is empty.

Figured that was ment for AGar... huh

Anyways, chck isnt scum because if my other reads are right he isnt scum by association with those read. So he isnt my vote for today, and if we arent lynching AGar, im actually wanting to move the game in an entirely new direction.

Will hold you too that as well.

So Chk is scum if you are wrong about Agar?

[Ranmaru]

Unvote: PapaZito
Vote: chkflip

Here's my case;
I'm feeling checked out of the game at the moment.
There is no support for a PapaZ lynch.
Punkin just produced possibly the best supported VCA I've ever seen and nobody is backing his play after it.

May I ask what that whole post has to do with Chk?

Can you give me your reads? (At least your scum reads)

What are your thoughts on Punkin, Socio, and Llama?

1. May I ask what it doesn't? I thought I was pretty clear.

2. You may - Papa Zito, Socio, CES are probably the top three. Frankly everything behind Papa Z feels muddled though, as previously noted.

3. Punkin - town. Socio - scum. Llama - town. Besides Punkin I'm pretty sure I've said these all explicitly before, and Punkin, considering the post you quoted, appears pretty obvious, yeah?

1. Yes, I just see that you couldn't get support on a Zito lynch, but then you fall back on Chk, why?

2. Ah, I see. I'd like to see you ask them questions at least. If Those three are your top three, why are you voting Chk?

3. Gotcha. I checked your recent posts in an iso before asking you, I just wanted to get some recent thoughts from you.

[Ranmaru]

Yes, I do. Ah, so I looked at the vote count, and saw Punkin voting Chk, so I assume you meant you agree with 'em.

Ok, so what parts of the Punkin VCA did you agree about wrt to ChkSCUM? Please give details as to why it convinced you to vote Chk over your top scum picks.

[Ranmaru]

Ranmaru, please answer my question: why are you voting for me?

Vote: ranmaru

Because of this:

Because that's how I roll.

That was a serious question. If you're just wagoning for the fun of it, then why the heck do you back that up with a "Why is DH not dead yet?"

^^I'd like other opinions on this, plz.

Why are you voting me?

[Ranmaru]

None of this makes sense coming from town.

UNVOTE: Llamafluff
VOTE: Thor665

Makes sense.

UNVOTE: Llamafluff
VOTE: Thor665

You were on Llama along with Zito, and you vote Thor along with him when he changes up? What's up that?

Explain why it makes sense to you.

[Ranmaru]

Hmmm, it seems you have misunderstood me before. I have said that I'm ok with it, as long as you bring in your own content as well.

What strikes me as odd is:

Thor not explaining why he agreed with the VCA
SP not wanting to explain his sheeping of Zito
CES's vote on me seems more like he doesn't want attention his way, and not really trying to catch scum.

so

vote: CES

[Ranmaru]

You know what?

Unvote
Vote: Thor

[Ranmaru]

What strikes me as odd is:

Thor not explaining why he agreed with the VCA

Something about this strikes me as odd too - but it has more to do with thick heads or something. I'm not really sure what that's about.
I'll give you slight props for pointing out Socio slavering at the jaws to lynch me, but I already think he's scum so whoop-dee-doo.

EBWOP - *sigh* Welcome to silly-ville, population you. Whatever, I could bear to watch a wagon on me form for info, maybe it will re-excite me or show me something I've missed.

Oh, I actually thought SP just hopped on you because Zito voted you, I didn't know he was waiting for the right opportunity to jump on you regardless of who voted you.

I could agree on SP scum with you, now. He is being a bit unhelpful.

I voted you because I felt this would be a better wagon then CES at this time.

Why aren't you excited?

[Ranmaru]

I usually get mopey if I'm really wrong in a read.
Also all my other games are currently being more fun, while this one is currently in a plodding wall stage.
And, yes, I'm aware it's up to me to "fix it" if I feel that way. Don't wanna right now, moping and sheeping till reads click again.

We can't always be right. That's why you have to admit your faults, and re-evaluate reads once in a while.

[Ranmaru]

What I mean is, if you think SP is scum, you should pressure him a little more. Ask him some questions. Like his reads.

[Ranmaru]

So Chk is scum if you are wrong about Agar?

This doesn't sit right with me. Do you know something we don't?

No. Llama said that Chk is town if he is right about his reads. Learn to read.

[Ranmaru]

EBWOP: Or rather, Chk isn't scum if he is right about his reads.

[Ranmaru]

Hmmm, and to clarify - by "sorta did these" I mean, I actually did the things he's saying I didn't - I'm not agreeing that I did the things he said...if that clarifies anything.

Do you feel Zito is trying to paint you in a bad light? Do you think his vote on you was merely an OMGUS to your scumstance on him?

[Ranmaru]

@Llama:

If you are that confidant, I don't see the point of keeping it secret.

If you lynch: AGar, Ran, TS and Thor I would be shocked if more then one scum was left. Would bet on those four contain 3 scum over 1, heavy bet it.

Thats because: SP, Crazy, Oman and if my other reads are remotely right, chck and PZ are town.

Everyone else are in the inbetween area, and wrap up any straggler scum.

Hmmm, I see. I have never seen you mention me before. What do you feel is scummy about me?

Also, I see you addressing multiple people alot of times, which is nice. I just don't see you addressing me, which makes me think you don't care about what I have to say.

Btw why do you feel Thor is scummy?

[Ranmaru]

Also Llama, move your vote to Thor.

[Ranmaru]

What do you feel I am wrong about? You speak, I'll listen.

No, I'm ok with my Thor vote.

Because he isn't scummy to me.

Why would you love to see what happens when he hits l-1?

[Ranmaru]

Agar, give me your reads on: Zito, Thor, Llama, and SocioPath please.

[Ranmaru]

Crazy: Null. (This includes meta of him now) There are scummier fish in the sea. I did like the few posts Crazy was scumhunting in, for example, on CES and such.

That Dh wagon thing he did was scummy, though. But he generally does come up with weird logic even as town... -_- lol.

[Ranmaru]

What do you feel I am wrong about? You speak, I'll listen.

I see AGar-Thor as a legitimate pairing, but individually Thor much more likely to be town, so it means he is the wrong lynch. AGar flipping scum not only locks down people like Crazy and SP to be town, but at the same time gives more weight to cases like Thor, TS and yourself who are my top picks for AGar partners.

Why would you love to see what happens when he hits l-1?

Too many people are ignoring the wagon. Thats a great way of making them notice. Join me here. No one is going to bite your head off for it, and it will really force some content specific posting by people that you seem to think are scummy as someone will be at L-1.

Can you show me examples of where you see Agar/Thor connections?

Ah, I thought you wanted to see a self-hammer or a claim. I don't usually need to get someone to l-1 to force content from

OTHER

people. If I want to force content from others and they still won't contribute, I'll just vote

THEM

, not the popular vote to hope they post. Simple as that.

[Ranmaru]

NO CHOWDER!

[Ranmaru]

What about "I will vote AGar until the end of timeeeeee." ?

Means he has determination. Doesn't mean he is right though. This is also

NOT

scummy (by itself)

[Ranmaru]

Thank you, and no. It's a good show. I go to college myself. Also I love the Arborians episode the most.

[Ranmaru]

would be happy with an oman or a ranmaru lynch at this point other than agar

I feel as though you only want to lynch oman/me because we might be annoying and not scummy.

I am not asking empty questions, or fluffing.

I'd say that you haven't really focused on scumhunting your self. For example, you have really dragged on Fate's playstyle alot but you never really scumhunted on him, bob. You are really lacking in the content area too. You are pretty useless.

[Ranmaru]

And you say I fluff my posts. ^ Is fluffing.

[Ranmaru]

@Rannymu - His attack on me feels sudden, frankly I still find him most scummy for his 'lol Fate's dead?' question Day 2 and than later his defense of "bussing scum 2 days in a row" business - which was a bit of a stretch and an overstatement of what he did. Obviously if he's scum he'd like to discredit me, but though I find his case on me sloppy it doesn't scream scum case particularly more than overanxious silly town to me. It's a bit OMGUS-y considering it felt like it came out of nowhere, but I frankly get that off the entire wagon, so clearly I went from looking pretty towny on Day 1 to suddenly feeling easy lynch/obv. scum on Day 3 and that can't all be scum motivated and is clearly on me for being listless.

More importantly - how do you read it?

@Llama - my issue with a lynch on AGar is simply that I would have expected AGar scum to do more of a slam dunk style bussing on Day 2. His and my scum styles are similar in how we like to treat less than optimal comrades in scum - hence why I'm not fond of the current case.

I felt it was a bit omgus, and it could have been him trying to make a reaching case on you.

ohshi.

[Ranmaru]

Note how Agar wasn't in a hurry to claim either, so he must not have cared about claiming before dying.

[Ranmaru]

Llama, who is scum on a Agar town flip? Agar Scum flip?

[Ranmaru]

I was trying to get some last minute content.

Point is that I didn't know why he wouldn't claim at l-1 (Better to claim then to not claim just to spite town, you know, team effort) , but it wasn't my place to ask for it, nor did I care for it myself.

[Ranmaru]

Llama did you crumb? I was wrong on Agar... ;-;

I also agree with a Thor lynch.

Vote: Thor

[Ranmaru]

Oh right setup.

Hay Thor still waiting for PZ case.

Zito, why should you? (Meaning what have you done to help the town) Of course, to me you are now null. Didn't your vote on Thor seem a bit, omgusy? (Since he had you as a scumpick)

[Ranmaru]

Sup Bob. Explain your vote on me please, and post some content too.

[Ranmaru]

third vote on thor wagon with no own justification + still asking empty questions as the entirety of your posts

blammo

I've been good with a thor lynch before.

I asked Llama that because I didn't believe his claim.

[Ranmaru]

I'm vt.

[Ranmaru]

My scum picks:

Thor, Llama, CyberBob, and Zito. (Yeah those two are new ones! : D)

Bob doesn't actually post content and only stabs others for whatever they lack.

Zito, asks for a case on himself even though there isn't that much townieness going for him.

[Ranmaru]

I recently ended a game as scum and when the Cop claimed the reaction I chose was similar (and many people caught it as an off reaction to boot. Bah!).

If you are town you may hurt yourself next DAY.

[Ranmaru]

Zito, why should you? (Meaning what have you done to help the town) Of course, to me you are now null. Didn't your vote on Thor seem a bit, omgusy? (Since he had you as a scumpick)

Why should I what? Ask for his case?

And I thought I provided ample justification for it already. You just skimming boy?

Not at all. Again, I don't believe you have that much townieness going for you to ask someone to disprove your scumminess.

[Ranmaru]

Why do you no longer find me suspicious?

You are still minorly suspicious, but I swapped my scum picks because I'd want the important picks to stick out before I die. Basically, I re-evaluated my reads. (I was wrong)

[Ranmaru]

@Llama:

I've been running through the various scenarios in my head and I actually don't see the harm in outing your innocents. Since you have two, you'll be able to stay one investigation ahead of the scumz even if they decide to start killing them off, plus you'd be tempting them to forgo doc hunting. Also, one of them is already obvious. On the up-side, we know there is no GF and it's pretty clear that your claim is honest: having two more confirmed green will help us quite a bit. With your investigations and my analysis, we might be able to wrap this game up with two lynches.

Im still debating. Not sure if scum chasing my innocents is a good thing or not.

I think tomorrow is where I claim, as it leaves us at ultra worse case scenario at 10 alive, 2 cleared, one 99% clear and a dead doc. Best case 10 alive 4 clear one 99% clear.

Also am I wrong in thinking tomorrow we no lynch and I dont claim if I hit an innocent?

Hmm? I don't understand, why no lynch?

[Ranmaru]

I disagree with Crazy's opinion on whether or not Llama claims his innocents. It seems that more information will help us scum-hunt more then it will hinder the scum to not know.For Example, our heads have a date for Sunday (the next time we see each other not in passing) to do a new VCA, and that information would really help when we do it.

Ranmaru, Why did you claim early?
UNVOTE:

Not Ok with a quick hammer, for a few reasons, like...I'd really like to hear from Oman today

I didn't claim early, I was at l-1.

[Ranmaru]

Oops. I miscounted... I was at l-3, sorry. I looked at Thor's count and thought I had 5 votes, and counted the next to votes that went on me.

[Ranmaru]

Again, I don't believe you have that much townieness going for you to ask someone to disprove your scumminess.

I have no idea what this means.

You voted Thor because he mentioned you as a scum pick. Did you push for a wagon? Did you provide a case on someone? Why haven't you pressured CES for wagoning on someone he didn't think was scum?

2. You may - Papa Zito, Socio, CES are probably the top three. Frankly everything behind Papa Z feels muddled though, as previously noted.

See, this is why you're prolly scum. According to your worldview:

1. Papa Zito is definitely scum.
2. Nobody else is nearly as scummy/readable as he is.
3. I'm not going to push my lone major scumread at all.
4. I'm not going to ask anyone to bandwagon my lone major scumread with me.
5. I'm not going to provide a case on my lone major scumread, even when directly asked.
6. I'm going to sheep vote on someone who's not in my top 3, muddled as that top 3 may be.

None of this makes sense coming from town.

UNVOTE: Llamafluff
VOTE: Thor665

2) Papa Zito, did you actually forget that Fate died or did you simply not know?

I forgot. I was rereading, saw that question and it triggered a "oh yeah I was gonna ask that" memory because I didn't like the hammer.

Hopefully this weekend I'll have a lot for you all.

You have 10 total posts this game. Most of them are akin to this one. To quote a famous green-skinned legend, post or perish.


Lord Almighty I wish we had a vig.

[Ranmaru]

I disagree with Crazy's opinion on whether or not Llama claims his innocents. It seems that more information will help us scum-hunt more then it will hinder the scum to not know.For Example, our heads have a date for Sunday (the next time we see each other not in passing) to do a new VCA, and that information would really help when we do it.

Ranmaru, Why did you claim early?
UNVOTE:

Not Ok with a quick hammer, for a few reasons, like...I'd really like to hear from Oman today

I think it'd be better to have pressure on them first, so that reactions can be gauged and malcontent can be found. (From the wagons)

Not that I don't like VCA, I would like to learn how to use it so I can use it in the future, but I'd rather the inno's be secret so that they aren't killed at night if confirmed without pressure.

[Ranmaru]

I don't see the benefit to Llama claiming his innocents at all. IMO they should only be claimed if (a) that person is about to be lynched, or (b) the doc is killed. Llama is totally safe as long as the doc is still alive. I suppose claiming his innocents would help direct scum-hunting, but I don't think that's a big enough bonus in contrast to having confirmed town that the scum don't know about.

I don't feel very strongly about Ranmaru being scum, but he is a safe lynch that has a

reasonable

chance of being scum, and lynching him will keep Llama's innocents as well as the doc and any other potential power roles hidden for now.

I agree with you. Again, I'd rather not have confirmed town because they'd be killed at night.

[Ranmaru]

I'm not answering your questions anymore if you don't bother to remember what I said.

This is very anti-town, you have something to hide?

[Ranmaru]

Vote: Papa Zito[/b\

[Ranmaru]

EBWOP:

Vote: Papa Zito

[Ranmaru]

How do you guys deal with ninja's?

[Ranmaru]

That's going to be a headbanger.

@Ranny - other than me calling you town, when did I become not a good vote and my claimed #1 a good one? Or am I projecting in thinking this is all about me?

I feel that I am wrong about you and Zito seems scummier to me than you at the moment. Although I do feel you should get in gear and put some effort into this game, I'd like to see that.

[Ranmaru]

ZOMG the scumz is gonna kill our townies!

I think y'all missed an important point of my argument. Anyone with two brain cells and an iso button

already knows

who the N1 investigation was. Do you really expect me to talk around it when I'm analyzing the game?

Unless I hear some compelling argument why I should refrain, I plan on greening the "mystery" person's name in my VCA. If Llama wants to start playing his cards closer to his chest now that he's claimed, I guess there's nothing we can do about that, but it seems like a bunch of people falling back on "the right thing to do" without any real reason, and thereby limiting the information we have to work with.

Anyway... Ima go read AGar...

I think it would have been better to wait a while. So you can also analyze possible scum intent on the wagons against them. But I guess Llama was fine with it. >_>

[Ranmaru]

Pretty dead in here. Oman and TS need to post.

[Ranmaru]

How do you guys deal with ninja's?

Lynch them.

To be clear on the lynch-pool...

Chk is scummiest individually but is only connected to one dead scum. Ran is second scummiest individually and connected to both dead scum. Thor is null behaviorally but connected to both dead scum in a way that is more compelling than Ran.

We have Plum and CES at null and are having trouble reading both due to lite activity, which is why I want their alignments determined

.

VCA should help prioritize all of this.

Also, there is no way in hell we are lynching PZ.

To the underlined, why haven't you pressured them or asked them questions much?

I went through your ISO and didn't find anything about Plum. CES posts were rare. You had a town read on CES, why did that change?

Hello, this head has been busy, I am now re-affirming my commitment to participate more in the thread.
I like our vote on Chk, he has been over defensive, and overcompensating , and has also twisted people's words so as to mis-rep them.

on to other stuff, SP, you got major scum points for this. claiming to have a scum meta on me, when no such thing exists=LIE!

Plum, I love that you said

Xine sounds just like herself.

this tells me you have done some meta research, and you got a town point for that

Speaking of meta, I've been meaning for a while to ask Agar, if you don't do meta, what's up with defending PZ based on meta? and yes, I read your disclaimer that it's not "meta" just a familiarity with his play style.... (aka meta!)

Oman...<3 @ U 2. We haven't yet had time to properly discuss the benefit of going with a Sudo vote , based on wagon size, (does size really matter?) But I am willing to consider it, he is high in scum points. he is nowhere near as scummy as Chk though, take a good look at him for me would you, I'd love to know your opinion on Chk-scum.

CES: I know it's not your habit to go into detail over your votes ect, but I have seen enough of your play to have realized that you are more often then not pretty spot on, If I ask you nice, would you give a bit of content on your thought process, pretty please...

In the bold here, this is the only time you mentioned if CES could post a little more content. Why haven't you pushed this further? Why would you let him play to his meta?

Meh. I don't buy Plum's argument (or bob's) but half of the wagoneers are prob-town and none of them are on the suspect list so...

UNVOTE: chk
VOTE: AGar Consider this a loaner.

Going to try and read my wife's

tiny handwriting

and take my own look at the NS iso.

Why did you loan that vote? (Even though you revoted Agar later on)

I figured the NS reread stuff and a page of Xine notes into our overall reads.

Scum (in order): Chk, Ran, AGar, Oman.
Town: bob, PZ, SP, Plum, Llama, Crazy.

UNVOTE: chkflip
VOTE: LlamaFluff

Those of you who are still on the Not Voting list should be ashamed of yourselves.

Now that Oman is cleared by Llama, and Agar dead, who are your scumpicks now? (Besides me)

UNVOTE: Llama
VOTE: AGar L-2

I know patience is supposedly a virtue and all that but...

...if we arent lynching AGar, im actually wanting to move the game in an entirely new direction.

Which direction would that be.

I think a wagon on CES would be informative, and there seems to be a fair amount of support for it.

Why haven't you wagoned CES? Me and Crazy were on CES, why didn't you join? It would have been informative.

The last time you mentioned CES, was telling him to place a vote, which he usually does do with the most popular wagon.

The other times you mentioned him was in your posts about connections and VCA. That is good, but I feel you lack in actual pressuring and questioning of the player.

[Ranmaru]

Saw you there, Thor. I'd like some content from you. Need some reads at least.

[Ranmaru]

Unvote
Vote: Cyberbob

[Ranmaru]

Cyberbob ISO:

ISO 0: RVS
ISO 1: RVS Distancing in my eyes. If Cyber flips scum, then look at this.
ISO 2: Not scumhunting
ISO 3 : He says they are being dumb. Not scumhunting though.
ISO 4 : Expresses content with his Crazy vote. Half scumhunting, half posting to post.
ISO 5: Theory.
ISO 6: Theory/Response to Chk's question about theory.
ISO 7: Advice.
ISO 8: Scumhunting about Sudo's inactivity.
ISO 9: Agrees with Llama that not posting about relevant things is a scum tell.
ISO 10: Scumhunting further on Sudo.
ISO 11: Vote's Sudo, and expresses it's better than Crazy. Scumhunting.

ISO 12: Response about votecount, not scumhunting.
ISO 13: Scumhunting further on Sudo.
ISO 14: Further scumhunting on Sudo, and lists what Sudo could have commented on.
ISO 15: Told Fate to chill out, not scumhunting.
ISO 16: Again, not scumhunting.
ISO 17: Talks about Fate getting pissed off, and scumhunts only on Sudo.
ISO 18: Posts from phone, and expressed like for Sociopath suspicions. Merely posting to post about others suspicions.
ISO 19: Posts about dh/fate, not scumhunting.
ISO 20: Builds a crap case on sudo, and pads it with a fourth point. (I have mentioned this before, Bob never answered my questions about it)
ISO 21: Re-iterates his scumread on Sudo, and also asks him if he was defending Socio.

ISO 22: Out of game meta, and mentions about Fate's playstyle. Not scumhunting.
ISO 23: Throws his reads out. A good thing to do. Don't know how Fate was policy lynching himself.
ISO 24: Again, zero scumhunting.
ISO 25: Shutting down options, zero scumhunting.
ISO 26: Brings up quotes about how Fate played. ZERO scumhunting here too.
ISO 27: Laughs at how Sudo's wagon run it's course. Or agreed with Punkin on that matter. No scumhunting.
ISO 28: Mentions wagon theory.
ISO 29: Talks about Nacho and Agar. Scumhunting. States he had bad vibes on Agar. Notes that Nacho was being dumb but not scum and dumb.
ISO 30: Mentions a Crazy/Sudo/Socio team. Two of which flipped town. GENIUS
ISO 31: Quickly adds Agar to the list, who flipped scum.

ISO 32: Mentions Fate's post about CES TIME TO HOP was bad. Minor scumhunting I guess.
ISO 33: Agrees with Plum's points. States Agar is defending Sudo, but wanted to get to the 'heart of the collective first'. Why?
ISO 34: Lol's about Chk's decision in playstyle. NOT scumhunting.
ISO 35: Mentions vote count to Punkin.
ISO 36: States he'd policy lynch Fate for what he said about the wagon not going back on Sudo. (I do not consider this scumhunting)
ISO 37: Mentions that scum may have jumped on sudo in the last few votes. Half scumhunting, half posting to post.
ISO 38: Denotes that he is very busy and would try to catch up.
ISO 39: Responds to an accusation of being defensive.
ISO 40: Votes NS. Scumhunting, catches Agar bussing NS.
ISO 41: Day starts, denotes that was a quick lynch, and votes Agar for bussing NS the day before.

ISO 42: Pushing for the smiley thing regarding Agar and NS bussing each other.
ISO 43: Notes that he has trouble reading Chk, but is ok with lynching him because he is ANNOYING. FUCK THAT.
ISO 44: Mentioned he was talking to Punkin about Agar's smiley.
ISO 45: Notes he was fishing for compliments. NOT scumhunting.
ISO 46: Skims and says some word I do not know. Obv not scumhunting.
ISO 47: States he'd rather have a Oman wagon over CES. States that I am asking too many questions and not posting. Scumhunting.
ISO 48: Re-iterates that I'm asking too many questions, and that I am fluffing.
ISO 49: Expresses content with a Ran/Oman lynch other than Agar.
ISO 50: Fluffs, I don't even know what his thoughts were.
ISO 51: Denies that he is fluffing. Chkflip touches on this.
ISO 52: Votes Ran. Scumhunting.
ISO 53: States that I'm scummy because I voted third on the wagon, had no justification, and asked EMPTY questions. (Others had no justification for voting)
ISO 54: This post implies an FOS, but doesn't want Thor at L-1 too early.
ISO 55: States that he was bordering on changing to Thor, but now cannot change to Thor since everyone has agreed on Ran. Why can't he simply push for Thor?



I'll quote Bob's reads:

thor dh and llama are p town

chkflp seems kind of village idiot-ish but im really bad at reading those kinds of players so

fate is making a strong case for a policy lynch on himself

apart from sudo and sociopath i dont like agar or nobody special's contributions (also agar liked the dh wagon so theres that)

Cyberbob has lot's of crap. He has minorly scumhunting, but has been majorly wrong. Scumhunted on Sudo, Sociopath, Oman, me, Chk, Agar, and NS. Fate/Dh/Nacho doesn't count as scumhunting. He has accused me of no justification for voting, when he hasn't pressured others for this offense, for example CES. (I have been clear in the past I was fine with Thor going) He states I fluff, but then fluffs himself, and denies it.

I guess he doesn't want Thor at l-1 because he still thinks he is town. Is this true, Bob?

Also, if Bob flips scum, Punkin can also be scum. Individually too. Punkin has Plum and CES as nulls but hasn't really pressured them or asked them questions. Seems to me like they don't care, and only care about their VCA. I do like it! I just don't like how they wanted to have Llama's innos JUST FOR THEIR VCA's.

So Cyberbob/Punkin/Zito

[Ranmaru]

So, lynch Bob. Cop Punkin.

[Ranmaru]

Oh hey, how come Bob didn't mention anything about Punkin in his reads? Although he left out Plum, CES, and others. I assume he thought Crazy was scummy from his early vote. I'd consider his other non-spoken reads to be nulls? IF not, please clarify.

[Ranmaru]

You didn't answer my question about Plum. Why didn't you address plum ever? Yes I'm glad for your reads but I'm looking for in-game actions, not playstyles.


I really like your VCA and connections but I hear that VCA shouldn't be done without Behavioral analysis.

So what? I don't care about who's the popular vote. I'll push for who ever is scummy to me.

[Ranmaru]

Nope, not at all.

[Ranmaru]

lot's

lots*

Thx. Gimmee some reads bro?

[Ranmaru]

Plum how did you get "Crumb for innocents" from my #808? That was never my message.

Also would like your recent reads (most likely scum picks)

[Ranmaru]

Thor. You probably. Those are my top scumreads.

Re: Your #808 - asking whether Llama crumbed would be intended to elicit a response of whether or not Llama crumbed at all and would at least indicate to you, or any scum, whether it was profitable to search his posts for crumbing of his Innocent results. Even if that were not the case, it was still a super-weird reaction to this sort of Cop claim and I have good reason to believe it was off because it came from a scum-mindset trying to fake a proper Town response.

You are wrong, and you aren't thinking thoroughly about the situation here. I have had a scum read on Llama the whole game, why wouldn't I ask for his crumb?
I don't understand why the cop would crumb his inno's. I asked him if he crumbed because I didn't believe he was the cop, BECAUSE of this post by Crazy:

Yes, this wagon is good. Seriously, guys, lynch AGar now for town-points tomorrow.

I didn't even notice what Plum just mentioned, but yeah, that Sudo vote really came out of nowhere.

I've been feeling scum vibes from AGar ever since he originally voted DH. It was an L-2 vote with no clear directive (did he want a claim? lynch? what?) and no clear case. After the wagon dissipated, he still said DH was scum, but he didn't really try to argue that point, likely to avoid a target on his back. Instead, he pursued a wagon on me mainly due to my "awkward" defense of DH. I guess back then I could

almost

understand it if he thought it was me-DH together, but now that DH has flipped town, I don't understand how me defending his wagon could possibly be anything worse than a null-tell.

AGar - I was not the only one to defend DH; I was just the first. What do you think of the rest of the players that followed my lead and hopped off the DH wagon?

[Ranmaru]

Yeah I wasn't thinking of that. I don't care about inno's. I kinda didn't want to out Crazy so quickly, but I guess you are right about that.

I'm looking forward to the new VCA.

[Ranmaru]

It was null. I have a hard time reading him because I lynched him in my newbie, and he came up town. Null leaning scum though, because he says I may be town, but isn't sure. Still null leaning scum because he always has weak stances.

[Ranmaru]

I didn't think it was wrong to ask for a crumb since Llama claimed cop. What Plum says does make sense. I'll try to be more elaborate in the future when regarding claims/crumbs.

[Ranmaru]

It was null. I have a hard time reading him because I lynched him in my newbie, and he came up town. Null leaning scum though, because he says I may be town, but isn't sure. Still null leaning scum because he always has weak stances.

can we lynch you yet pls

What?

[Ranmaru]

Thor, any thoughts?

[Ranmaru]

I don't know what makes Zito so town. He makes less content than bob does.

[Ranmaru]

Meaning, I thought you were scummy for the DH wagon thing. Crazy too. Just thought PZ was lurking pretty hard, and seemed scummier than you at the moment I pushed him.

I was ok with pushing PZ because he wasn't at ALL townie and he even asked for a case on himself AS IF he was the towniest of townies.

[Ranmaru]

Oh and his vote on you seemed like he was WAITING for you to say something that would seem like you slipped up or something.

[Ranmaru]

No, I do not like wifom. Plus, I wouldn't rely on that to base PZ's alignment, because it is null. Scum could have forgotten, town too.

Crazy, what was your read on PZ before he forgot about fate, and give a brief description.

[Ranmaru]

Crazy, Crazy, Crazy, ooooh. Thought you always be miiine. Miiiiine.

Sociovote was prod-dodge. Simple as. Crazyvote was from my thought that you were scum.

Was there another question? I forget now.

Punkin's "connections" with me to the dead scum is mostly because I scumhunted them.

That's silly

.

Thor pretty much solidified my scumread of him with his response to the VCA.

UNVOTE: Ranmaru
VOTE: Thor665

It's not silly at all. You should look at connections and individual actions. Of course scum will fake connections to bring others down, but that is why you should be wary of people's actions towards you and their reads on you. You should even be wary of their LACK of connections to you.

Explain how Thor's reaction to the VCA was scummy to you. What purpose would scum have in reacting in that way?

[Ranmaru]

So that makes it okay?
I'm not going to answer that question.

Buddying is null. Explain how Thor's reaction leaned scum.

[Ranmaru]

and he even asked for a case on himself AS IF he was the towniest of townies.

You keep saying this. Explain why this is a bad thing.

You haven't posted much content. You ask for proof of your own scumminess, but you don't even have proof of your own townieness. Meaning, you have no room to ASK FOR A CASE. Instead, you should be helping the town with scumhunting and analysis. Your recent post shows you are only coming in to post when you are mentioned (mostly, there are a few recent posts where you mention Thor and such). I'd like for you to take a little initiative. (You have less posts than bob)

What do you think about the recent conversations? The VCA? What are your reads?

[Ranmaru]

I agree with Ran pointing out PZ's general failure at looking town

Well see that's the difference. I'm not interested in my image. I'm interested in lynched the scumz.

Ok, if you are interested in the scumz, can you answer this:

What do you think about the recent conversations? The VCA? What are your reads?

[Ranmaru]

Double-posting with our other head.

Conversation since the VCA has earned further scumpoints for Ran and chk. The former for under-reacting to my scum-or-dumb declaration and using some pretty bad logic in his stubborn attack on PZ. Scumz forgot who they killed, what?

Chk threw a dirty one-two punch against Thor with the stretchy buddying accusation and some scummy selective quoting. It feels like a desperate mafioso tired of teetering on the brink of a Thor lynch, and may also point to Ran-scum (though I didn't assign points to Ran for that). Chkflip just keeps getting scummier. It's astounding. We're not going to look over the VCA conclusions until tomorrow at the earliest but, no matter what they do to our read on him, I can tell y'all right now that I do

not

want this guy unconfirmed in endgame. Lynch or cop. Period.

This is a gem of a slip from one of the Yth-confirmed...

a lot of the reason I voted Ranmaru was because I worried that chk and/or Thor were Llama's confirmed innocents

You think they are scum but looked elsewhere because you were worried the cop got an innocent on them? I assigned double points for this. Not enough to push Crazy anywhere near the suspect list but something to be remembered in endgame if our house of cards comes tumbling down,

especially

if chk and Thor are town.

You ask for proof of your own scumminess, but you don't even have proof of your own townieness. Meaning, you have no room to ASK FOR A CASE.

Burden of proof: you're doing it wrong.

I don't know what you and Bob mean about me not having content. So what, I double post? This is mafia. I like to add things. Is my pace too much for you?

I didn't know what you meant when you were saying I was clueless. I wasn't attacking PZ about the thing he forgot at ALL. I was telling Chk that buddying is null. That was not an attack.

I was telling PZ he wasn't giving enough content, and that he wasn't scumhunting.

[Ranmaru]

Xine and I have a hydra date today. Not sure what time but certainly before Wednesday.

@Thor:

Your stance was that cog dis suggested PZ was faking his mistake for towncred. Ran, OTOH, countered Crazy's argument (mistake looks legitimate therefore town), by saying that scum might have

actually

forgotten their kill. Those are not even remotely the same thing. In fact, for yours to be true, at the very least, PZ must believe that Ran's is false.

Ranmaru-chkflip-AGar could've totally made the shooting-a-VT screw-up.

Interesting considering #705. CES argued against that team, saying that the possibility of a mistake undermined my speculation about a VT being killed by those three players because of his suspicions. Now he thinks they were the ones who made the mistake? Sounds like a fork in the bullshit stream.

Will you still love me?

Just promise me that after Llama confirms me, you'll do what we say.

If he understands the setup he is town, if he doesnt he is leaning scum.

I think it's the opposite, actually. Explain how you got here?

Quid pro quo: If he understands the setup, Ran suspecting you is him suspecting that you'd stake the lives of 2/3 of your remaining team on a 50% chance of there not being a cop/doc combo, while also removing your main tool for dealing with that combo. In other words, if he is neither clueless nor thinks the mafia is, then he is scum.

@Ran:

Do you know how this setup works?

I have had experience with mafia. So I know what a cop/doc need to do, tracker etc. I just didn't know how to deal with ninjas, and I asked about that.

I don't understand Llama's reasoning. Anyways I don't rely on roles that much so I don't focus on it. If I know there are pr's I'll try not to out them but I was ok with explaining why I asked Llama to crumb.

[Ranmaru]

Flip flopping on Ran a little here. If he understands the setup he is town, if he doesnt he is leaning scum. Need to figure this out a bit better first.

Don't know what your reasoning is for that. I have played with docs/cops/trackers etc but not ninjas. That is new to me. That's all.

[Ranmaru]

Ok, if you are interested in the scumz

Why are scum more likely to ask for a case on themselves than town?

Why have you not asked Cyberbob anything despite parking your vote there?

Why isn't your vote on me if I have less content than Cyberbob?

Why didn't you ever vote either of our two flipped scum?

How about you don't selectively quote me and answer my questions:

I agree with Ran pointing out PZ's general failure at looking town

Well see that's the difference. I'm not interested in my image. I'm interested in lynched the scumz.

Ok, if you are interested in the scumz, can you answer this:

What do you think about the recent conversations? The VCA? What are your reads?

[Ranmaru]

Sup Chkflip saw you post elsewhere. Thoughts?

[Ranmaru]

You should ask him some questions.

Also what do you think about Punkin, Zito, CES, and Bob?

Chillin.

[Ranmaru]

Bob, Punkin, Zito.

Bob hasn't helped much at all. He has posted too much about playstyles, and minorly scumhunts. How is bob town?

Punkin because he had Plum and CES at null but never even addressed Plum at all. Do they plan to keep their read on Plum AT null? Punkin is also trying to pin me for attacking PZ for him forgetting about Fate. I have never attacked him for that. I was just telling you that buddying was null, not scummy. Although I do like their VCA's and connections. I would want them copped tonight.

Zito doesn't really have anything on Thor. He just jumped on him when he gave me his reads. That was omgus. Zito even selectively quotes me to ask ME questions without answering mine first. (I'd answer them when he answers mine)

[Ranmaru]

EBWOP: Punkin has addressed CES but only a few times. (They asked him for content ONLY once) I do like their catch on CES though. I could go Ces/Thor after Bob/Punkin/Zito.

Crazy is null to me. What do you think of Crazy?

[Ranmaru]

Can you post more content?

[Ranmaru]

EBWOP: Lol next page. Last post was in reference to CES.

[Ranmaru]

How do you feel about bob calling you a vi? Doesn't that upset you?

Ah so you feel Bob is town because he wouldn't bus his partners so early?

[Ranmaru]

blah, i wish i could post more often (it's not a matter of time, just rarely picking out things to say)

Ah so you feel Bob is town because he wouldn't bus his partners so early?

if you're setting up for a grand meta reveal on me I can just go ahead and link you to the relevant game now (FYI EVERYONE I BUSSED A PARTNER FOR LITERALLY ALL OF DAY 1 AND GOT THEM LYNCHED ONE TIME YES IT'S TRUE I DID IT)

Ok, post it then.

It's entirely plausible for him to have began to crumb for a future bussing, but I don't think it happened. Even with this meta-information, bussing two partners at once? Seems too ridiculous in a setup like this for Cyberbob to do that.

What's up with the superfluous first question there? I see no town motivated reason to ask it.

UNVOTE: Thor665
VOTE: Ranmaru

I understand. So you don't think Bob would have the balls to do that?

I asked why you didn't say anything about it. Why is that?

[Ranmaru]

Sorry, I didn't mean for that to come off as harsh, but you

did

just second-slot a dead guy.

Speaking of harsh...

@Ran:

I see that you posted some stuff at us. I read it and noted that you are either incapable of reasonable discussion or spewing crap on purpose but, either way, I see no benefit to addressing any of it. I'm getting really tired of you trumpeting about with worthless questions and blatant point-missing. I'm getting tired of you murdering logic and acting as if word count is an infallible measure of alignment. And of you accusing obv-town players of failing to scumhunt when you don't seem to know what the word means.

I want you to look back at the VCA and take note of the fact that you have

never

voted scum in this game. If you are town, you haven't helped us at all and, in fact, are helping the scum by creating a smokescreen of worthless noise. If you are scum, your flailing isn't going to do you any good and it's annoying as hell. Either way, please try to invoke some kind of filter between your brain and your keyboard. Thank you.

Now can we

please

lynch chkflip?

I thought Agar was town... I was wrong on that note.

When it came to the NS lynch, I was recently V/LA. I didn't even get chance to post, and NS was quicklynched. I might have voted NS to wagon but I didn't think he was scummy either, just being very lurky.

Stop trying to stifle how I play. I will not stop for you at all. Don't you wonder why Bob came out to defend himself when I asked Chk for his reads? (which included Bob)

I do think questions about people's reads who don't contribute much is important. I'm not going to solely rely on your VCA, I'm going to rely on my own questioning and pressuring.

'worthless noise' I won't let anyone breathe. I won't hesitate. Sorry. I don't care what you think.

Please state how you think my questions are worthless, and I'll consider on how to improve them. : D

[Ranmaru]

And yeah, I'm good with lynching Chk. I'd think he could be connected to Bob somehow. Don't get his town read on him. (He states that he thinks Bob is town because he THINKS bob wouldn't bus a buddy or two that early) and I don't get why Bob came in to prove that he'd do it or not. I'll read it soon and give thoughts.

Unvote
Vote: Chkflip

[Ranmaru]

And yeah, I'm good with lynching Chk. I'd think he could be connected to Bob somehow. Don't get his town read on him. (He states that he thinks Bob is town because he THINKS bob wouldn't bus a buddy or two that early) and I don't get why Bob came in to prove that he'd do it or not. I'll read it soon and give thoughts.

Unvote
Vote: Chkflip

This is your great counter-wagon? Also, massivescumpoints for making this jump when yours starts to build speed.

I have been voting everywhere since I've been voted. Zito, Bob, and then Chk. But you only say this when I vote Chk? He only had a few people on him anyways.

[Ranmaru]

Llamma, the cognitive dissonance with Ran's stance on your claim is here:

I asked Llama that because I didn't believe his claim.

Thor, Llama, CyberBob, and Zito. (Yeah those two are new ones! : D)

Post-claim, he doesn't believe the claim and lists you as a scumpick.

Now that Oman is cleared by Llama, and Agar dead, who are your scumpicks now? (Besides me)

So, lynch Bob. Cop Punkin.

Once he realizes his attempt to discredit you has failed, he suddenly believes the claim and even goes so far as to try to direct your investigation.

That wasn't addressed to Llama though. When I say "Cop Punkin" It means "Punkin should be copped".

Also, Crazy has already explained he wasn't the cop. That was why I doubted Llama's claim.

[Ranmaru]

I see two major flaws in your thinking there, Llama.

1. You're giving Ran-scum too much credit. Even if he was killed for his suspicions, I seriously doubt the scumteam who NKed Nacho is planning ahead to optimize LYLO.
   
2. You're forgetting that Ran didn't outright attack you. What he did was use suspicion of you as the excuse for why he was asking for breadcrumbs. If he's scum, he wasn't trying to get you lynched, he was trying to figure out who your innocents were.

@Ran:

This isn't a newbie game and I'm not an IC. Point being: 100% of the people who you accuse of not scumhunting or not providing enough content have been clearer in their stances than you have, 100% of them have voted known scum more than you, and 100% of them seem to have a firmer grasp of this game. That's in spite of all your "content".

@chk:

If you're talking about what I said to SP, that was me questioning him about the ramifications of your vote. His stance at the time was Sudo-town, chk-scum. Yours was that NS was scummy but you moved your vote to Sudo during the buildup of the NS wagon, immediately after my feeler-vote on Sudo. The question had more to do with determining

his

alignment than anything else.

Crazy is on our def-town list.

@PZ:

Good catch. I'm okay with lynching Ran over chk today, especially because of the VT claim. However, I want to reiterate:

chkflip is not to be let into LYLO alive and un-copped

.

UNVOTE: chkflip
VOTE: Ranmaru L-1

I have been clear with my stances. Don't tell me I have bad logic when Zito votes Thor for some bad reasons himself. You blind?

I have already explained why I never voted Agar. I have explained why I haven't voted NS (I was V/LA and day has ended quickly), but you seem to be ignoring that. Just because I didn't vote scum doesn't mean I shouldn't even try. Again, stop trying to stifle me.

[Ranmaru]

And no, I wasn't trying to get inno's. YOU wanted the innos early for your VCA. I don't know how asking Llama for a crumb means "inno crumbs".

[Ranmaru]

Try harder, CES.

[Ranmaru]

Everyone.

[Ranmaru]

I have already explained that I thought Crazy was the cop. I was wrong.

[Ranmaru]

Because of this:

I figured the NS reread stuff and a page of Xine notes into our overall reads.

Scum (in order): Chk, Ran, AGar, Oman.
Town: bob, PZ, SP, Plum, Llama, Crazy.

UNVOTE: chkflip
VOTE: LlamaFluff

Those of you who are still on the Not Voting list should be ashamed of yourselves.

Oman and Agar was part of Punkin's scumpicks. I wanted to know who his new scumpicks would be, since Llama cleared Oman and TS, and Agar flipped scum.

[Ranmaru]

So Ran, did you ever get around to noticing that that we had stated the answer to your question in the post that was 3 posts before yours?
(Hint, you quoted the relevant post in yours.)

BTW what are you talking about? You addressed a statement to everyone, because you believed you were talking to crazy...?

Thor was null to you behaviorally, and PLUM/CES were null to you, cept that you didn't ever address Plum at all.

If I state my reads, am I addressing it specifically to Llama, or to the whole town? >_>

[Ranmaru]

And yeah, I'm good with lynching Chk. I'd think he could be connected to Bob somehow. Don't get his town read on him. (He states that he thinks Bob is town because he THINKS bob wouldn't bus a buddy or two that early) and I don't get why Bob came in to prove that he'd do it or not. I'll read it soon and give thoughts.

Unvote
Vote: Chkflip

What the hell is this 'he could be connected to Bob somehow'? Even if a Townie does see connections this is

not

how a Townie would go into voting someone. A Townie would say 'And his stances on Bob are also funny and off-looking; let's vote', I think, not 'And he's probably scum with Bob or sommat'. Fake fake reason to 'not get' Chk's Townread on Bob and attack that.

Plus Zito is the bomb

. I probably didn't need to say any of that.

UNVOTE:

Ran, any last words?

Why do you think I was asking his further input on Bob? Chk's town read on bob was weird.

Last words? Cop punkin. PLEASE. Lynch once of Bob/Zito. Crazy is town. CES/Plum are null, but they can go if I care.

Nice buddying on Zito there, Plum.

[Ranmaru]

Also DO note that Thor was the first person to say that I was town. Just a thought.

[Ranmaru]

V/la Today at least, I'm going to the hospital

I'll get back to you guys if the day hasn't ended, if it has, I suggest you guys plan on what would happen if I flipped scum, or if I flipped town.

[Ranmaru]

Just got back, I'm town.

Also, I disagree with PUnkin. PUNKIN should be copped, not CES NOR Chk. Well at least, Before LYLO/MYLO, Punkin should be copped.

I do like that Punkin has helped the most in this game.

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW ZITO AND BOB ARE OBV TOWN. I don't get it at all.

[Ranmaru]

Llama should be ok with that since he said that he had trouble reading Hydra's anyways. Don't like how Punkin finally addresses PLUM just for her not voting me quickly enough.

If Punkin would be scum, I'd assume Plum is not.

[Ranmaru]

Btw, I'm not doc, but I didn't address Llama about that because I was hoping to not get lynched toDay and draw the nk some how. (No jokes plz)

[Ranmaru]

Meh. I don't buy Plum's argument (or bob's) but half of the wagoneers are prob-town and none of them are on the suspect list so...

UNVOTE: chk
VOTE: AGar Consider this a loaner.

Going to try and read my wife's

tiny handwriting

and take my own look at the NS iso.

Don't see how Oman didn't give Punkin scum points for loaning a vote to a wagon he didn't want to get on. I dunno, this is me rushing tho.

[Ranmaru]

Unvote, Vote: Ran

Pew, pew, pew.

I'm surprised Plum didn't hammer. Oh well.

So??

[Ranmaru]

Sorry we've kinda been AWOL lately, fixing that though.

Right now we're willing to end the day with a Ran hammer. He should get in here and post his final reads ASAP.

I was V/LA...

[Ranmaru]

@Crazy: I don't think a no lynch will be necessary tomorrow. Ran is obv at this point and we've got the last scum in a small group. Even if the doc gets run up to claim, we don't lynch him, meaning that Llama still gets that second investigation. I doubt he'll need a third.

Yeah, we probably won regardless of it all. But let's not reject any opportunity here just because we're getting cocky. Do you have some reason for why a No Lynch tomorrow will

hurt

us?

Crazy, what do mean that Ran is a "safe lynch"?

He's not a power role, and he wasn't one of Llama's innocents (back when I was trying to keep Llama's innocents a secret, UGH!!!) Plus enough people suspect Ran that he's pretty much guaranteed to either be lynched or investigated at some point anyway.

Today just went so wrong. The best play was probably a No Lynch, which, granted, I should have pushed for. The next best play was speedlynching Ranmaru and keeping Llama's innocents a secret. Instead, Llama claimed his innocents so we could scum-hunt, and then we lynched Ranmaru

anyway!

I agree Llama shouldn't have done that.

[Ranmaru]

Btw, I think Plum is null leaning town now, yeah. So find someone else to scum hunt on.

[Ranmaru]

Sorry about the rapid posts. I'm used to shorter day phases (10 days per DAY phase)

This will be my last post, because I don't think the town will get much help from them anyways.

Good luck.

I was ok with lynching Chk since Punkin asked "Can we lynch Chk now?"

Again, Bob/Zito deff not obv town. Don't like bob's play at all. It's stupid. Shouldn't bring playstyles into it.

Punkin should be copped. In the future, after that, CES > Chk for copping. That way if you are unsure of Chk, you can just lynch him.

Crazy is town, and I don't like how PUnkin NOW is flipping on his town read on Crazy.

[Ranmaru]

I too have noticed a strong connection between Crazy and Ranmaru. Crazy has been on the "obv town" list for a while, but I'll be looking closer at him for sure.
Crazy, I don' see how a now lynch tomorrow would hurt us specifically, I agree that overconfidence can cause big blind spots, thanks for the reminder to stay aware of such pitfalls.
Plum, do you often take this long to follow up with a hammer after threatening one?

Mod, where is plum's vote right now?

Btw, did you ever state that Crazy and DH might have had strong connections because Crazy thought it was a bad direction? If not, why not?

Sorry I lied... ;-; (about my previous post being the last, but I'll try not to post anything more) *posts and runs away*

Anyways, Disappointed with Thor. I really want to see him work harder in the next few DAYS.

Bob isn't going to do much either. I do agree with Punkin that Bob has lynched everyone...

I don't expect much from Zito.

I'd like to see a little more from Crazy.

AND I DEFF WANT TO SEE OMAN, TS, AND LLAMA WORK HARDER. Plz <3

[Ranmaru]

Oman I saw you post around, plz give thoughts GO GO GO before thread is locked

[Ranmaru]

Plum, I hope you can put a little more thought into certain situations. I'm sorry if I was really scummy/fake. ;-; I hope my lynch helps you guys with connections tho.

Also, I don't care what anyone says, I'll play the same way. I'll try to improve, but I'll do mostly what I do.

Again, I don't get why Punkin hasn't addressed Plum UNTIL I was l-1, asking her why she hasn't hammered yet. I'd think it would be scum trying to distance off of a townie.

Also, another thing...

When I post, and I post another post, it's just that I usually like to post thoughts quickly, and then I have more thoughts. Sorry, I guess I'm just scatter brained. I try really hard though.

[Ranmaru]

What, asking you to work harder? Pfft. Big deal.

[Ranmaru]

Ok, sis needs comp. This is the last you'll hear from me. : ] Gl.

[Ranmaru]

The Ran lynch was necessary to reduce the amount of durp in the thread.

Yeah but you selectively quoted me and I refused to answer your questions and you just didn't want to out your own scumminess and that's why you voted me you didn't vote me for scumminess.

I didn't know what you were doing anyways and you obv didn't push much lynch wise look at your thor vote cmooon.

[Ranmaru]

EBWOP: *Refused to answer yours without you answering mine.

Thanks for being selfish.

[Ranmaru]

*and I mean your thor vote after he gave his read that was practically an omgus.

[Ranmaru]

"NOW THOR WANTS A MASS CLAIM IMMA STRANGLE HIM FSALFDJSAFLKJDFLDS:KFJSDF HE DIDNT DOUBT LLAMAS CLAIM BEFORE THOR I KILL U "
It was the appropriate time to request claims for verification. Late enough it didn't matter to out the doc, early enough not to allow scum a free ride if he was gambiting.

@Socio - agreed, Cop follow is nice for the W/L ratio if you're town, but it does suck a lot of interest out of the game. The most fun I had in about three days was challenging Llama right at the end.

Fair enough. GG's tho. I wanted to see more from ya tho, but good stuff all.

[Ranmaru]

Interesting game, just swung bad for scum when I checked AGar. I knew if I lived that night town would probably have just won the game. Since we would just be able to lock into a follow the cop esq mode.

Reasoning behind not checking Punkin was on two levels, first was the kill of Nacho/DH which I felt ment that scum were not really on top of stuff as much, but I can see DH-doc claiming VT in a town looking rage quit to not draw the kill anymore. Still, that kill bumped him behind some of my other slots.

I *should* have got CES lynched over chck that one day (no real feel bad about Ran lynch), but if chck was scum, game was 100% wrapped up the next night, and if CES was town, it likely would have outted my Thor clear.

Not sure much of what I can say about this game at this point. I had a gut read on AGar, and that investigation essentially ended the game.

Sorry I doubted you. Thought it was odd to see Crazy's post about Agar lynch giving townie points. It's kool. I tried my best. Good stuff.

[Ranmaru]

Dead QT
I'll let the scum team decide if they want to post the scum QT or not.

Overall it was a good game, I thought. The only thing that was really tide-turning, imo, was Llama finding the roleblocker. There was a good chance scum could've won if AGar could've stayed alive even just a day or two longer. I'll post night action results later on today after I've had a nap.

Also, I've definitely been waiting to give my apologies to Punkin (Ythill) for getting a tad defensive about the votecounts. That was definitely no fault of his own, so I was a little embarrassed that I brought anything into the game like that. I was a little sensitive as a first-time mod! >.<

On that note, I hope you all enjoyed playing in my first modded game! Thank you all for the effort in a maybe-not-so-fun setup. I truly appreciated everyone's willingness to jump on board anyway. : )

Whoa this was your first? It was damn awesome. <3 I had a ton of fun and I tried my best. : D I wonder how a TOWNces plays haha.

[Ranmaru]

So he does it out of game, too.

Solid.

Did that make me seem scummy?

I just tend to post quickly and always have more things I want to add. ;-;

Oh I was totally wrong about you/Cyber and Plum was right that I didn't have the right reasons for that haha.

[Ranmaru]

Well I'm used to quicker deadlines (10 Day deadlines) so I don't know if it's my playstyle or just how I am adjusted to playing.

Thank you for putting it out there. I'll consider it.

[Ranmaru]

Ok, what exactly did you think of my play that I might need to improve?

[Ranmaru]

Like you mean, wagon wise? I don't understand. ;-;

[Ranmaru]

I think it was most likely my fault. Bob said I didn't give reasoning and was the third vote on the wagon. Then my fate was sealed when I finally moved on to Chk. : P

Yeah I'm already in the que. : P

If he means with vote hopping, I just love vote hopping. : P (I can't make up my mind) If it has to do with my posting lol, I'll try to work on that.

[Ranmaru]

Yeah I just always have a thing to say... Yeah again, I'm just used to quicker posting. Deadlines are soooo long.

[Ranmaru]

I kinda spammed up the Dead qt too tho. ;-; Sorry my fellow dead ones.

[Ranmaru]

@Ran:

Though your lack of focus was costly to you in the midgame, what I'd suggest you work on is your understanding of logical debate. You made some really scummy arguments, like the burden of proof fallacy against PZ, and you took the low road in a lot of your arguments with us. Nitpicking and/or cherry picking tends to look suspicious and all these things combined made you an easy mislynch, no offense intended. Something that might help you a little is trimming down your posts. Brief comments that solidly address an entire situation rather than pick at minute details usually do better in the long run.

Oh yeah I'm a bad debater... ;-; I guess I was wrong about that. Which arguments? (I know I voted Chk when you said "can we plz lynch chk?) Lol I need to look at those... Yeah everything catches my attention.

No it's fine I'm a big boy. I appreciate the CC and good games. Still liked the effort with the VCA.

[Ranmaru]

I don't even remember calling you a weak player...

But uh, my POINT was that I wasn't nice this game. Like Xine said. I don't really care if I was the main cause of you replacing out or not, but clearly you'll agree that I wans't all FLOWERS AND SUNSHINE AND AWWWWWWWW DH HAS A BIG TEST?

Even though you got the :HAPPY: in your title D:

[Ranmaru]

Where is the Scum qt D:

[Ranmaru]

I like that Llamafluff kill at the end lol. Dunno if it was for kicks, or to possibly sneak a kill under the doc. (Sometimes as a DOC I have thought of saying i"d protect this guy but then protect another, yes risky but depends if the scum are risky too hahaha)

@Ythill: Oh tru I didn't see everyone say so. Oh well. : P

[Ranmaru]

You know, I totally didn't get NS's lynch lol. I was shocked he was scum. xD

[Ranmaru]

After reading some of the scum qt I realized some things that I wouldn't have understood without reading it xD

Like, the Zito forgetting the Fate kill.
The Llama "Are you paying attention" possibly being a soft claim? I didn't see that. lol

I'm just so focused with motives and scumhunting that I don't see that.

I know that if someone really thinks someone is town that person may be cop I just didn't see that lol. I was just too focused on Llama being so concise and sparse with his posting...

Also I didn't know that the town bloc thing he made was sort of a pr tell to you guys. Lol.

[Ranmaru]

loool. Yeah I need to work on pr tells, it's fun... xD


I would join but currently overloaded xD

[Ranmaru]

Lol at his breadcrumb.

Btw Thor, sorry I thought you were scummy at first. I dunno, it was the Nacho first impression thing... ;-; Although, I'm glad you read my pbpa! (I could tell since you noticed my starburst line)

I would deff like to play with you in another game in the future. : P