Open 304 - Hard Boiled, Game Over. Was DY's Dystopia saved?

[toffee]

Vote: Toffee

Toffee is delicious....too delicious.

Absolutely Yummmmmm-eeee ;D
Lol. VOTE: don_johnson Well..well.well.. the don in plain sight!

[toffee]

1. I see nameloc's vote as random.
2. I found your reaction a bit interesting, but still a null tell. Another pressure on you won't help much for now, tbh I wanna see nameloc's reaction to your reaction too, and damn you, I think I've said too much in this point 2.
3. I wanna see everyone posting and play! I picked the don, well..why not...perhaps this could lead to another wagon, who knows.. another wagon to compete means more discussion.

[toffee]

^Lol, you're his big fan? :p

@chess: well, his reply will explain if he's a fool or else.

[toffee]

How am I helping the scum PR hunt?

Unvote

;

vote: chesskid3

Don't be dense, please.

Everyone who says on page 1 I'M not blahhhhhhhhhh is neccesarily not a PR and also not even the PR they claimed to not be?

It's one less possibility they must consider. Suppose the Hider, Hider Tracker, and Detective/Psychologist all die by D2. It's unlikely, but it's possible.

Then the scum know they don't need to worry about you, friend.

Softclaim/hardclaim/whateverclaim VT on page 1? Explain scum motivations or gtfo with your chesskid-is-scum read.

Well, it was anti-town and makes you more likely to be a VT. If we go through D1 by just getting a VT claim and lynching them, well, that's far from the worst scenario possible for the town. In other words, your stock has went down as a helpful player for this town thanks to your actions, so you're going to have to work harder than the rest of the people here to overpass them (at least in my eyes).

I don't understand this, I read you're thinking chess as town but at the same time you're voting him. Scum alarm activated.
Then in post #53 you're saying if it's better to hunt an anti town VT because it's D1 and all, I just can't understand the logiiiiiiiiiiiiiccccccccc *explodes*, VT could harm the town, yes. But VT could harm the scum as well, and that means VT-hunt is in scum agenda. It leaves town job easier, which is to stay focus on lynching scum, arrggghhh! Are you trying to influence the town, acting like a pro-town hero or such and make us doing a stupid lynch, it just not make sense, unless you're scum..and it's your scum agenda.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: RedCoyote

[toffee]

no, they're actually mismatched, and you are scum.

you have erased any doubt from my mind

.

Well..well..well..don.. can you elaborate more about this?
Because personally, I still don't understand the case against nameloc, and your focus on him only made me curioussss...

Then vote him.

Anxious much? We have a

bit

of time before the DL. I think I'll vote when I'm good and ready. K, thanx.

Well do you have any suspects atm?

Deity is so obviously scum. Those questions are so transparent and useless.

I happened read a game with Deity as player, I think this is just his style.
Furthermore, from the start of the game, I don't think Newman has contribute much about the occurring cases. Let's see... proposing a DH wagon..unvoting..saying his concern about possible future lurking, avoid voting his suspicion (does he have any I wonder...), and... errr... I think that's it! Can't really see his interest in hunting scum, which makes him added to my suspicion list after Coyote.
In conclusion, I don't think Deity's curiosity as scummy.

[toffee]

If Deity is scum, so is toffee.

How, please?

[toffee]

If Deity is scum, so is toffee.

How, please?

I happened read a game with Deity as player, I think this is just his style.

"It's his style."

Um....











no. That's a red herring and that's also as transparent as polished glass. Never blame something legitimately scummy like that on "I think it's his playstyle".

Deity's play is odd, I realize that, it made my scumdar tingling too, but from my meta I also found out if he's a newbie who still in search on his own best-style in finding scum.
If every time Deity's oddness were forgiven by me just because I think he's a newbie, this could back stab me hard if in the end he turned scum, newbie scum.
But what I do isn't like that, when reading his posts, I carefully analyzing of what would the benefit for scum / town with what he's doing. And o yeah! This definitely isn't easy.

That is what usually happens in some games, but how I want it is, lynching people once we've gotten "strong" evidence.

And that's why you're scummy. You can't get strong evidence unless you immerse yourself into the weak evidence to build cases.

I got a feeling this is exactly what you're doing with Deity's case... :p
Reading you debating Deity's by paraphrasing his words, just causing me a headache. Or you're just simply scum who likes building cases on weak symptoms, like you said.

[toffee]

i like the rc vote. but nameloc should go first.

toffee: not a whole lot of substance or "case" behind my suspicion of nameloc, but i'll try to flesh it out later. he just reads like maneuvering scum. rc is really making soft votes as if he's keeping a way to avoid accountablity.

Well if after you flesh him out and you found his case not as good as rc-scum, you should help us and vote rc, is that sounds good with you?

[toffee]

I don't understand this, I read you're thinking chess as town but at the same time you're voting him. Scum alarm activated.

What I'm saying is that he's straight less likely to be a PR. Because of that, as I said to SSSS, if we end up lynching a VT at the end of today with no other claims, that's not the worst scenario we can come across. I don't necessarily mean I think he's scum or not. Obviously I don't know either way.

Then in post #53 you're saying if it's better to hunt an anti town VT because it's D1 and all, I just can't understand the logiiiiiiiiiiiiiccccccccc

I'm not acting like a "hero", so let's get on the same foot here. I don't know where you got that idea. I'm just saying, to SSSS, that, especially in this game, night actions are so vital for the town.

Today it would be better to lynch a VT and not out any of our PRs than lynch a scum an out several of our PRs. Do you agree with that?

It's true night actions are so vital in this setup, it just that VT is still town, and could be in good player's hand "if lucky", and the thing is, it is town job to find scum, not killing each other apart.
The "hero" thing came from the fact that you kept pushing the idea of how g-o-o-d it is to aim for a VT lynch on D1, to me, it seems like try looking pro-town with "good-cover" objective.
So, obviously I'm not with you w/ D1 VT-lynch here.
RC, I just don't get it, supposed we all are agree w/ you w/ this D1 VT-lynch thing but failed in the end, I just can't see you would be satisfied and not kept pushing another VT-lynch on the next day, what make you so sure D1 will got your "happy ending" and could continue "ideally" w/ scum hunting on D2? Why should we be convinced w/ chesskid lynch in this case? Why am I wrong in believing if you, are in the middle of tricky-scheme, directing us to the wrong lane?

[toffee]

@toffee: Your defending of DK is noted. I love also how you say: "If every time Deity's oddness were forgiven by me just because I think he's a newbie, this could back stab me hard if in the end he turned scum, newbie scum." If DK ever flips scum, it won't look good for you.

I don't understand the RC wagon.

Because so far, Deity's case is crap, in my read. If happened I got scum read on him, don't you worry, I will happily place my vote on him.
Read my previous post for RC case.

[toffee]

Toffee, your whole case against him is how you don't agree with him. You're making

assumptions

about him that IMO have no weight. I don't necessarily agree with him either, but I don't see how he's scummy for it.

Hmmm, I believe RC could speak for himself nameloc, it's not like he could be hammered anytime if I leave my vote on him atm.

it is town job to find scum, not killing each other apart.

If your opinion is that I'm trying to lynch town, then you're incorrect. That's not my intention. My intention is to lynch scum. I just want everyone to understand that lynching a VT on D1 without any other claims, given this setup, is a satisfactory outcome.

Why should we be convinced w/ chesskid lynch in this case?

There's no chess "case". If I was wanting chess lynched right now, I'd be rallying y'all to the wagon. It's just a spot to keep my vote because I think, if the day ended right now, he'd be the one I'd most want lynched. I would not prefer him lynched right now (nor would I anyone).

I'm just making sure if I just read you wrong. Your answer is noted RC, it might you're possibly just town, although definitely we're on different perspective, so far your replies are fine by me, you're not dodging it at least
UNVOTE: RedCoyote

[toffee]

@RedCoyote

I will explain my vote, but if I did it now, than nameloc would have it way much easier.

@HeloooNewman

Also, notice how nameloc isn't posting as much, a bit scummy to me.

Unvote
Vote HellloooNewman

You sir, are fucking contradicting yourself. Earlier in the game, I had ask you TWO fucking questions, and you avoid them, and now you vote me for avoiding your fucking questions, DID I place a vote on you? No. I don't think so.

You are scum enough to me, trying to ease your way in making it not obvious that you are defending nameloc, but at the same time turning the tables to DK trying to form a bandwagon, makes me laugh.

God damnit! Can't you just re-read teh game? Your questions were silly! Especially the "hand raising" thing.
And what the hell w/ won't explaining your vote thing? Watching you bandwagoning here and there, just following the crowds, makes me worry, I think you need to re-state your scumread stance more clearly, I believe it's just not me who didn't understand what the hell you are at atm...

For now.. VOTE: Surye

[toffee]

Well, it just this style of his has going too much on this game, afraid if him copying it to cover his scumplay. That's why I prefer if him stating his opinion more, coz I could be crazy if this his silly style continues. This could benefit him more too anyways, bad play is bad play.

[toffee]

Kinda, but gotta go in a few moment, didn't care much 'bout it for now..

[toffee]

You attack DK, make it seem like you are ready to vote him......then vote Surye without a word as to why. Please explain.

This is a valid point. Plus the voting people over disagreements, not for scumminess. nameloc has looked somewhat better.

unvote
Vote: Toffee

@RedCoyote

I will explain my vote, but if I did it now, than nameloc would have it way much easier.

@HeloooNewman

Also, notice how nameloc isn't posting as much, a bit scummy to me.

Unvote
Vote HellloooNewman

You sir, are fucking contradicting yourself. Earlier in the game, I had ask you TWO fucking questions, and you avoid them, and now you vote me for avoiding your fucking questions, DID I place a vote on you? No. I don't think so.

You are scum enough to me, trying to ease your way in making it not obvious that you are defending nameloc, but at the same time turning the tables to DK trying to form a bandwagon, makes me laugh.

God damnit! Can't you just re-read teh game? Your questions were silly! Especially the "hand raising" thing.
And what the hell w/ won't explaining your vote thing? Watching you bandwagoning here and there, just following the crowds, makes me worry, I think you need to re-state your scumread stance more clearly, I believe it's just not me who didn't understand what the hell you are at atm...

For now.. VOTE: Surye

You attack DK, make it seem like you are ready to vote him......then vote Surye without a word as to why. Please explain.

Lol, kinda in a hurry last night.
DH quoted me about this also I believe.
Deity's style of play I referred was his odd style in questioning people. While his votes history were quite alarming so far, I want to find out his true opinion 'bout all of his scumread and making sure if he's not just following the crowd.
While for Newman, I kinda like his recent activity. Although it's noted his last vote seems like an OMGUS vote a lot.

I voted Surye coz he's kinda dodging the question asked to him, shifting it to the strawman thing, not a very stong case, but I like my vote for now.

[toffee]

Hmm... Toffee's style of play is even weirder than mine o.O

But eh... anyone else noticing how Newman and DemonHybrid seems to be buddying up?

It's not bad, but I'm just saying, it seems like their "voice" speaks the loudest of all, really persuasive, it would be really interesting if one of them turns out to be scum. *cough*- Newman (maybe)

Hmmm, I'm quite sure you were voicing Newman as town (it's post #97), why the change of heart so sudden?
What's behind the read between Newman-scum and Newman-DH buddying up?

[toffee]

Hmm... Toffee's style of play is even weirder than mine o.O

But eh... anyone else noticing how Newman and DemonHybrid seems to be buddying up?

It's not bad, but I'm just saying, it seems like their "voice" speaks the loudest of all, really persuasive, it would be really interesting if one of them turns out to be scum. *cough*- Newman (maybe)

Hmmm, I'm quite sure you were voicing Newman as town (it's post #97), why the change of heart so sudden?
What's behind the read between Newman-scum and Newman-DH buddying up?

There is a hidden essence of "peculiar" inside of his posts. I am not saying he scum, but I could very well easily see him as one. I just do not like how DemonHybrid and Newman are buddying up to scumhunt. I'm pretty sure this game does not have Masons.

You're not saying him scum but could very well easily see him as one... This is kinda contradictory, Deity.. saying someone peculiarly scummy and at the same time saying "I think you're town", it just don't make sense.

Deity's style of play I referred was his odd style in questioning people. While his votes history were quite alarming so far, I want to find out his true opinion 'bout all of his scumread and making sure if he's not just following the crowd.

Could you just state for us, very clearly, whether or not you think DK is scummy? There's no reason we should have to go through all this filler unless you're giving yourself leverage to backtrack. Do you understand?

By watching Deity-Newman case, yep scummy, wishy washy enough. From memory, if I remember correctly, it was like this..
Newman - hand raise anyone?
Deity - hand raise?
Newman - can't you fucking read?
Deity - question #2 @ Newman
Newman - it's stupid question.
Deity - no it isn't
Newman - finally gave his reply, omgus reply
Deity - I think you're town Newman blah..blah..blah... <still a null tell.
Newman started showing activity...and voting
Deity - but you still haven't answer my questions...
*I got "wtf" here, and kinda blew up on post #177.
1. That "hand raise" thing is simply understandable by just re-reading the game. And I thought what in the hell town mind keep pushing this.
2. Deity got his reply, followed it by saying I think you're town Newman. And LATER in game, this won't answer thing happening again....
3. If he didn't satisfy enough w/ Newman's reply, why would saying him town. And after saying him town, back again to this so backdate thing...

Heh! Kinda glad, finally could sort this out (head feels lighter now), thanks to RC push, before it was just kinda rolling over and over on back of my mind without conclusion.

I love my vote on Surye, but now I feel like Deity is a stronger case, so UNVOTE: Surye. VOTE: DeityKabuto.

[toffee]

Do you just not care about our cases on

you

? Do you realize that all of us are calling you, Surye and DK buddies?

Err, I didn't realize this at all tbh.
And where the hell did this come from? I'm sorry if I kinda missed that, not trying to make excuses, but English isn't my first language, and I rarely practiced it.

Here, let me speed things up:

toffee, what do you think of Deity's claim?

Not sure, it's between me or him, I think he was kinda nervous, trying his best luck not to be lynched?...
Reading last 2 pages, still not like him.. and still love my vote~

[toffee]

i would argue against the claim, but with the hider dead, hider tracker is confirmed town, no? although i still think it may be wise for ht to lay low unless they have a scum result. what does everyone think?

What we should do is have the Hider Tracker voting their scum result (if they have one) and trying to get their lynch through going that route first. If the Hider Tracker can successfully get a lynch through without claiming, then they can claim tomorrow and the town will be in a much better position.

Um, HT does have a scum result. Otherwise, I would not advocate him coming out.

Obviously, there is a small chance DG hid behind the vig, but that's unlikely and if that happens, they'll just both have to claim. It's worth it.

VOTE: toffee

This is an open setup, I think it should be pretty obvious, I do believe the HT got his result dead now. In this case, I'm w/ don, I prefer the HT stay to lay low.
There were 3 persons get shot last night, I'm quite sure the hider must be hid on one of the other 2. So, it's definitely a NO for HT claim.

Alright Amrun, what's actually your case against me? I still don't get it tbh.

What about toffee? Didn't you suspect him?

I do, and I think she would be a good alternative lynch for the awkward way she joined the DK wagon.

elaborate please..


Aaand VOTE: RedCoyote.
I still think your reason when voting chess was crap, you've dodge well though, made me see from another point of view w/ this Vig D1 lynch policy, but you wanting chess lynched while him being Vig was still a BIG doubt back then, still seems odd to me.

[toffee]

Oh god, so much to catch up just in 2 days. I still haven't finished reading page #17, but I need to go to work soon. I'll try to catch up more soon as I got home today.

For now..

aside from that, I'm anxiously awaiting toffee's stance on what happened at night, and the wagons toDay. also, scott and dj, i really want to start seeing more from you. I'm thinking one of you is the last scum scum slot, and neither of you is looking particularly townie to me right now. step it up. post more. do move than vote.

Not much on night thing, I could go w/ Amrun's claim.
Before Amrun claimed, I've already re-read her, her votes on popular wagons didn't read like scum much anyway. That's why she didn't get my vote, while RC did, definitely a good wagon to me.
About RC case, Muffin said it so much better than I. But it sure best if you guys just re-reading the game yourself.
Not much suspicion said about anyone from RC. His big case on D1 was on chess, while on me and DK he seems just following the crowd much, sudden while it's hot.
And it seems majority would like my lynch, but no one ever gave me the case. I don't think this is a one way game, is it?
Atm IGMEOY on don for your vote hop thing.