Open 321: Kc's FIRE and ICE: Game over.

[Cirno]

Despite the naysayers, I will always persist that reality tv is high art.

[Cirno]

VOTE: VisceraEyes

[Cirno]

God damn it, Yank, you are doing it wrong. Just let it play out.

[Cirno]

Hey bro, who is the teacher in your teacher-student hydra?

[Cirno]

That was directed to iBetrayal if it isn't obvious.

[Cirno]

My note on VE is no longer random.

[Cirno]

...V and N are only two buttons apart. Anyone could make that mistake. ANYONE.

[Cirno]

No.
that is referring to the previous post where I wrote note instead of vote

[Cirno]

Normally you can't, but I've just finished modding a game and still have the ability to edit posts until it is removed. However, I believe mod powers are restricted only to topics created by the mod. I can't actually edit anything in this thread.

[Cirno]

Can you tell me exactly what you agree with in regards to PersonalIdiot?

[Cirno]

Mostly because I don't like votes which are explained with "I agree". I also don't like how you unvoted immediately upon being called out just now.

I understand (sort of) the last bit, but I'm confused about those first two problems you have with PI. You voted him because he asked what you believe to be a valid question and because he doesn't agree with your wagon?

[Cirno]

To be clear, you are saying that you found PI scummy because he complained about your wagon and then used the same logic the people on that wagon used?

[Cirno]

I don't need a fucking reminder and I'll point out again that I can't even edit posts in this thread.

[Cirno]

@VE

: Looking back, PersonalIdiot attacked the wagon because he didn't understand how the people on the wagon could be sure you were scum. However,

he

attacked you because he believed you made a scumslip (even if I really don't see the slip). I really don't see the similarities between PI's suspicions (scumslip) and the reasoning behind the VE votes (WAGON!).

In other news, I also disagree with gb's attacks on PI. Questioning or refusing to join a random wagon (or join in on rvs in general) is a very common occurrence among people who are new to mafiascum and I think that calling PI's post an about face is a stretch.

A bunch of new posts while in preview. I'll see what those are all about later.

[Cirno]

Okay apparently those posts are about flipping people off and the meaning and pronunciation of "fing". I want you guys to know that I assured johnny's mother that a crack team of investigators would be looking into the death of her son. You guys are making me look bad.

[Cirno]

@VE:AtE's on mafiascum are more likely to be used as a scumtell than get you out of a wagon on mafiasucm, VE. Better to try to prove you are town by finding scum.

preview edit: see what I mean?

[Cirno]

If only I checked my grammar in that preview.

[Cirno]

>VE whining
>Empking spamming
>replacements everywhere

Game is already guaranteed to be epic.

VOTE: Toon Fighter

For hopping on the largest wagon without even a single comment on the game other than "I agree".


Also, please kill MediocreJPop for mentioning anything from that troll r07.

[Cirno]

WHY did you vote gb and WHY are you voting PI?

[Cirno]

>can't choose "complete waste of time and effort" for PBPA in that survey.

[Cirno]

wtf can't you tell a lion from a smilie?

[Cirno]

Came to check the thread, saw multiple megaposts, lost the will. See you guys tomorrow.

[Cirno]

Don't like MediocreJPop for trying to put someone at L-1 this early in the day and then claiming he had no intention to end the day.

Don't like Empking's "quote and offer a pointless comment" strategy. It is barely more than active lurking.

Don't like how gb has to attack every little thing, for instance attacking toon fighter for offering to explain his vote.

That said, I'm not satisfied with Toon Fighter's explanation of "he was deserving of a vote", so I'm keepin my vote there.

Still don't like VE's vote and subsequent unvote, but, other than his whining, I've no problem with his play since then.

[Cirno]

I don't have any problems with verydark and I don't care whether or not he has a vote on him.

[Cirno]

Dude, I would have answered the same way if anyone else had asked. I don't base my suspicions on whether or not a person is being voted, so I said as much. You need to get rid of that persecution complex if you wanna play mafia.

[Cirno]

30 years old, huh? That is nearly half as old as farside22.

[Cirno]

I don't see how telling one player not to answer for another is buddying.

inb4 buddying, scumbuddy, etc.

[Cirno]

v/la until saturday

[Cirno]

Arguing semantics does not change the fact that despite your number of posts, you have contributed very little and that any kind of explanation of your actions must be pried from you.

Also, I'm back from v/la.

[Cirno]

>klazam


On a more serious note, I continue to dislike Empking's posts. The warriormode votes make sense. Many people seem to take issue with PI's "I'm always scummy" line, but I have no problem with it. I disagree with just about everything else Reab had to say about PI as well. No, this is not a coherent paragraph. Yes, I only made this post to avoid a prod.

[Cirno]

Hey guys, why is verydark or Empking more scummy than Toon Fighter or Warriormode?

@Toon Fighter:

Are you caught up in the thread? What exactly made you believe VE was deserving of a vote? Do you believe he is still most deserving of a vote?

[Cirno]

Pressuring the person who shows dissent for a rvs wagon is a common tactic early in the game. Like the rvs wagon itself, it is a way to provoke and gauge reactions.

What I'm saying is that ConfidAnon's behavior is not scummy in the least.

[Cirno]

I have a theory that KC's merciless image confirmation policy is responsible for the casualty rate. It is just so spirit breaking to be forced to post an image against your will. One guy was even forced to post an image from Daily Haha and I can't image he was still right after that. I think the drop outs are the lucky ones as I'm certain the rest of us won't be getting out of here without any long term effects.

[Cirno]

You know that by revealing that you do not know what a vanilla townie is you've also revealed that you did not receive a VT role pm, right?

[Cirno]

god damn it get out of here klazam i am trying to post.

[Cirno]

>In the games i've been watching (on the forum that seems to be not as professional as this ^^), the Vanilla Townie always was only called "Townie"

But why wouldn't you know it is called vanilla townie on this forum if you got a vanilla townie role pm?


pedit: You guys are posting too fast. Ignore this if it is redundant.

[Cirno]

I've only been scum 4 times, so just pick any game from my wiki page. I also recently got lynched in Into Africa which is still ongoing, but I've flipped already.

[Cirno]

>And where did that "our assertion" come from? You had no part in it. It was MY assertion.
I think that "our" was supposed to be "your".

Also,
>refusing to answer anymore questions on something another player finds suspicous

[Cirno]

VOTE: David Xanatos
RVS has long been over. There is no reason to cast a joke vote at this point.

Also, I'm am at work trying desperately not to fall asleep, so let's talk alittle. Who are the three players you find most suspicious so far?

[Cirno]

Also
>ViscaraEyes - 1 - Krazy - (L-6)
>Viscara

[Cirno]

Hey bro, how about you give me you top 3 most suspicious as well?

[Cirno]

How about that list of three suspects, bro? Also, are you arguing that RVS is not over?

@cavjj: It should be obvious that the next question is "why?".

[Cirno]

First sentence was to David.

[Cirno]

...First two sentences.

[Cirno]

A second RVS is retarded and both the suggestion that it should be done and the implication that I should forgive your vote because you want to start another RVS is scummy.

Can you be more specific about what you dislike about TF, Reab?

[Cirno]

Just to clarify, all of my last post was to David. Not Reab.

@smargaret: Um, questioning people

is

scumhunting.
@Reab: Yeah, it was to David.

[Cirno]

So many typos, replace that @Reab to @cavjj

[Cirno]

No, questioning people isn't always scumhunting. Trying to get a feel for a person's motivations is scumhunting. Asking questions that help scum figure out who to kill and make it look like you're participating when you really aren't is not.

No. Asking people about their reads and to explain their reads is mafia 101. Asking a player who they suspect and why not only forces the player to state their position (thereby making it more difficult for them to hop wagons) but it allows you to analyze their reasoning. Also, in this setup even scum will scumhunt as there are two opposing mafia factions.

I would require more elaboration from both David and cavjj before I could tell you if I've learned anything from this line of questioning.

Now I want to know what exactly you find scummy about my line of questioning and why.

[Cirno]

>everybody left

[Cirno]

The thing is, you do that

after

you have a suspect, and that singular is important - if you ask everyone, then you're not applying pressure, you're not encouraging discussion, and you are telling the scum who they're going to have a hard time lynching. Just blanket tossing out "Who are your top three suspects?" doesn't do anything as far as advancing the game, but it is active lurking.

That does not make even an iota of sense. How is anybody supposed to find scum if they are only allowed to question people they suspect? The entire point of questioning is to gain information so that you might form a better opinion on who is likely scum. Questioning only a single person you find scummy and ignoring everybody else is not scum hunting, it's tunneling. Further, the entire game of mafia is played by people giving their reads/reasoning and the other players analyzing and forming opinions on said reads/reasoning. As such, getting reads and reasoning from other players is vital to finding scum. To argue that questioning any given person about his or her reads is active lurking is moronic at best and scummy at worst. Unless scum is tripping all over themselves, asking for and analyzing reads/reasoning is the

only

way to find scum.

You can't even tell me where this is going or if you'll be able to get anything out of David/cav/anyone else who answers.

The primary purpose of a question, in mafia or in general, is to gather information. There does not need to be any other purpose to a question other than to gain information. In mafia, a limited information game, gathering information is the most basic and most important element of gameplay. As such, asking a question is the very basis of scumhunting. Even if such questioning does not immediately lead to anything earth-shattering or pressure anyone in the slightest, the information gained about the reads and reasoning of any given individual from the answer is valuable in itself.

If you truly believe that asking people to give their reads and the reasoning behinds those reads is only helpful to scum, then I can only say I disagree to fullest. Such questions are not only helpful, but a

necessity

for town. I will continue to ask people about their reads and the reasoning behind those reads, regardless of whether or not I believe they are scum at the time, all game. Come at me, bro.

[Cirno]

Guess what?

v/la until Sunday

[Cirno]

>I was in preview about to ask you guys to give me until tomorrow night before you hammer.

We ain't even friends, Reab.

[Cirno]

>Klazam and David voting on pure wifom
Nope. Not condoning this nonsense. Firstly, show me that scum consistently congratulates a
doctor after a save more often than town or stop pretending this is a valid tell. Secondly,
explain why questioning whether both mafia targeted the same person is more likely to come
from scum than town.

Can't vote both Klazam and David, so I'm voting David for his 'lol I agree' antics.

VOTE: David Xanatos

No idea what smarg is on about. I'll be examining the Whisker's wagon when I have time.

Also, pre-emptively ignoring the inevitable 'defending your scumbuddy' line.

Preview Edit
@Krazy: So your argument is that TF is distracting from his behavior on day 1 by congratulating the doc and asking the mod a question? That seems more like an excuse to jump on a growing wagon than proper reasoning. How exactly does his post distract from his behavior on day 1 and what kind of post could he have made that you would not consider an attempt to "distract away from his otherwise active lurking/omgusing from d1"?

[Cirno]

Congratulating a doc isnt that much of a tell. It isnt the main reason why i'm voting.

Let me walk you through this from the Ice Scum viewpoint.

Night: *kills Emp*
Daybreak: Emp is dead. yup. WAITWHAT? Fire Scum killed him? I know i killed him. Question: Did fire scum kill him first? Or did we try to kill somebody else?

This is how i see things.

EBWOPreview:

What krazy said.

Okay, now why is that more likely to be the case than a townie seeing one nightkill and wondering if it was due to a doc save or mafia targeting the same person?

I'll respond to Krazy in a moment.

[Cirno]

It's supposed to make him look protown, "GOOD JOB DOC! WHOO GO TOWN!" Asking the mod a question about natural action resolution = trying to appear as "figuring out" what happened last night. Both parts of the post struck me as insincere.

Why

did they strike you as insincere? And in your last post, you mentioned that you did not necessarily believe that TF was ice mafia. Does this mean you think his question makes sense from the perspective of fire mafia?

His posting now that he was V/LA and that's why he never really scumhunted on D1 is also a load of bull, he had an awful lot of "hey what's up guys?" and then "oh I'm back." Have you looked at him in iso? Virtually the only time he posts more than a sentence is either: a) to complain about people voting him or b) to omgus someone voting him. Everything else is (in)active lurking.

I agree that he did not contribute much yesterday. And I agree that he could have scumhunted between his v/las. But what has any of that got to do with you claiming that asking the mod a question (a question which demonstrates a misunderstanding of the setup in the first place) is an attempt to distract from active lurking?

"Mod, when you say Empking died by Fira Maf that means ONLY Fire Maf targeted him or Fire Maf targeted him first?"

This isnt the sort of question i'd execpt to see if he was wondering if the doc saved somebody. If he was truly wondering, would he have put up the congrats doc part first?

But you would expect scum to ask the mod about the nightkill in a roundabout way

in thread

rather than simply PMing the mod directly?

[Cirno]

Um, are you saying you don't believe there was opportunity for TF to scumhunt between his absences or did you misunderstand that quote in your rush to reply? And yes, I'm asking you why you find his post insincere. My argument is that you are using a "lack of sincerity" as a reason to suspect TF because you cannot actually explain logically why that part of his post should be viewed as scummy.

Also, that is the second time you have ignored a direct question in two posts.

[Cirno]

>Krazy
>As for you, 1) do you actually think TF is town? 2) why did you choose David over Klazam, if both seem to be attacking TF for scummy reasons fypov?

1.No, I don't necessarily think TF is town, but that does not mean I will ignore scummy arguments being made against him.
2.See the post where I voted for an explanation of why I voted David over Klazam.

[Cirno]

Please clarify this for me, VE. Are you clearing one player because another player suspects them?

[Cirno]

Think hard about what about whether there is something about this game that would make such a thing even stupider than usual before you reply.

[Cirno]

Responding to prod. I'll catch up later.

[Cirno]

Just posting again to say that I won't be around tomorrow (Tuesday) but will return on Wednesday. I probably won't be around Tuesdays from here on out and that may or may not apply to Mondays as well. Anyway, I'll catch up on Wednesday and post

something

then.

[Cirno]

>Asking the mod to do a vote history


KJ seems to think I am scum for some undisclosed reason, but other than that seems to be the most logical person in the game.

@KJ: As one of the people requesting the vote history, are you going to analyze it or wait for other players to do so?

I think the sarcasm of the "townpoints" comment is clear and that smarg's attacks on it are either misguided or an attempt to grasp at anything that might be construed as scummy.

@David: In regards to congratulating the doctor. There is no evidence that that is consistently the behavior of scum rather than town. Like many tells used in newbie games and on EM, you are using logic that doesn't actually make any sense and only because you saw someone else use it.

Stopped reading Krazy's posts.

VE reminds of DK in that even if he is right, I instinctively shy away from anything he does. The majority of his problems with CSL are nitpicking, but CSL does seem to contradict himself with the rolefishing and middle of the wagon bits. That said, I'm not particularly suspicious of CSL.

I'll figure out whether I want to keep my vote on David next time.

[Cirno]

>kj
>What is implied by this bit?
That there is no value in continuing to read his megaposts.

>VE
>In what way is my problem with CSL nitpicking?
Basically, I consider nitpicking any kind of complaining about inconsequential things that don't actually logically point to a person being scum. For instance, complaining about CSL saying that hammering without a claim is bad.

>Why you soft-defending CSL?
Like I said, I attack anything I don't like regardless of who that post may be targeting. Also, I have fond memories of CSL trying to talk to players of a game he was modding and inadvertently giving things away in the process.

>Also, I don't know who DK is...should I be offended?
DK cannot be explained. He must be

experienced

. Your time will come.
You are not actually as bad as him.

No, this does not count as 'next time'.

[Cirno]

I'm referring to 645, where you attack all sorts of things that don't really warrant it. I

do

understand the parts about CSL contradicting himself.

[Cirno]

Sorry, just can't get into this game. Replace me, bro.

[Cirno]

Changed my mind about replacing out due to the hilarity of the last few posts.

@David

: What information could you possibly have that would confirm CSL as town and that you cannot reveal today? If you are the Doctor and protected CSL, that does not confirm CSL as town as there are two scum teams able to cross kill.

[Cirno]

>implying mafia won't either both target david/neither target david, allowing him to survive, get a doc save, and post trollface.jpg on Day 3.

[Cirno]

@Reab

That post makes zero sense and here is why. You gave two reasons for voting VE in that post:

1."I think David Xanathos maybe has figured out something he said before the night ended about VE."
The first, because you

think

David

might

have figured out

something

about VE after VE had spent his last few posts calling him an idiot. Please explain how it makes sense to cast a vote based on David's findings before he even explains them?

2."What i disliked was the way [VE] pushed CSLs lynch so hard until the very end to then back off, making DX actually vote for her."
Please explain how and show where it is exactly that VE backed off of CSL. How exactly is trying to convince David that CSL is not confirmed town 'backing off'?

Basically, the first reason makes makes absolutely no sense and the second reason is blatantly false.

VOTE: Reab

Also,
>killerjester hasn't been reading the thread
My disappointment is endless.

[Cirno]

Since we are incapable of killing scum, I have an idea. Everybody go grab a milk crate, a strong rope, and a six shooter. Tie your rope to a nice sturdy tree branch and get on up on your milk crate. On my mark, we'll all hang ourselves and fire off shots at one another while we each dangle to death. Mama always said 'if you can't beat 'em, go for mutually assured destruction' and I'm pretty sure this is the only way we are killing scum.

On a more serious note, KJ's suggestion that we play follow the leader like some mentally handicapped EM player who is incapable of logic or forming his own opinions is stupid. And his decision to go the 'lol if you vote me you are scum' route while going on about how there will be 4 mislynches in a row damages his credibility more than anything else he has done in this game so far.

Anyway, I'll lynch anyone outside of Klazam, David and delicious Cirno. Order of perference is Reab > Krazy > Killerjester/VE.

VOTE: Reab

Also,
>VE complaining about AtEs

[Cirno]

>Reab's real partner needs to shoot Cirno.

>Implying mafia has the testicular fortitude to come at me during the night
>Implying that if they did come at me I wouldn't spank them until their buttocks come to a blush
>Implying I wouldn't force them to pose for humiliating photos involving fresh produce under threat of another spanking
>Implying I wouldn't send those photos to their unrequited loves and underworld buddies
>Implying their unrequited loves wouldn't post the pictures on facebook and joke with their friends about how pathetic the mafia in the photos are
>Implying the mafia wouldn't be laughed out of the underworld
>Implying the wouldn't spend their remaining days as humble shoe salesmen without aspirations or dreams, unable to ever live down the shame of it all

Y'all don't know who you are dealing with. Come at me, maf.

[Cirno]

I'm still here. I'll catch up tomorrow.

[Cirno]

I didn't have time to read this today. Give me until tomorrow. If I don't post tomorrow (monday), do whatever you want.

[Cirno]

Well, monday came and went. I've got to be honest, I don't really care to try to convince you guys not to lynch me (though it seems you guys are wagoning someone else now).This isn't just because I'm tired but also because the game so far has demonstrated that everything will come down to a quick wagon in the end. And really, I've not paid enough attention to this game in the one or two times a week that I actually have time to read the thread to try to argue with you all. But I think Klazam is town. David is town. That makes VE, KJ, Krazy scum by process of elimination. I was put at L-2 with 4 to lynch and was not quickhammered. This would suggest that one or more ice were already voting me. Further, KJ and VE voted me together and are now voting Krazy together (and again there is no quickhammer). Thus I believe ice is VE and KJ, fire is Krazy. Needless to say, this assumes that I am town.

VOTE: killerjester

Also, changing my avatar to reflect the massive case of butthurt that kj has been suffering from lately.

[Cirno]

Responding to prod. Back later.

[Cirno]

This is ridiculous. Guys, I'm TOWN, so all this arguing is a waste of time. Can't you see that? This is EXACTLY what they want!

You are all now realizing that you have let scum as terrible as this make it all the way to Day 5. Not even victory will redeem this shame.

I do agree that arguing is a waste of time though. Especially since it is only scum doing the arguing. The last couple pages are pretty much kj and ve gangbanging krazy while all the townies carefully study the action and hope for some kind of revelation. If you aren't going to participate in the speculation and wifom, then just cast your vote and stop dragging the day on.

Also,
@Krazy, KJ: 1,2
Do you understand now why you should check meta before arguing over what a given player would or would not do?

[Cirno]

Yes.

[Cirno]

No, just pointing out that you guys are more concerned with arguing over what I would do than actually finding out by checking my meta. btw, the there were indeed two opposing scum teams in that last game.

Also, I won't ever claim scum, even if the situation merits it. I'm not Kcdaspot.

[Cirno]

I don't think I'm missing the point. You asked why I did something, and I gave you an answer. If you want to provide your own answer for the question that is fine, but don't pretend that I am somehow twisting the question.

[Cirno]

Also, I really should get back to my homework. I'll still check the thread, but my replies won't come as frequently.

[Cirno]

Cirno, why do you think Krazy is the fire scum?

Just going by what I saw when I checked in. Three people are scum. VE, Krazy, KJ. Two of these people voted for me together. The same two people voted for Krazy together. And they've been double-teaming Krazy for awhile now.

Also, I feel like it would be a waste of time to do too much analysis in this game, but a quick look at the lynches...

Whiskers - 7 - CSL, Klazam, smargaret, Empking,

cavjj

, Krazy, Reab - (L-0)
CSL - 6 -

ViscaraEyes

, Reab, Toon Fighter,

killerjester

, smargaret, David Xanthos - (L-0)
Toon Fighter - 5 -

killerjester

, Reab,

ViscaraEyes

, David Xanthos, Klazam - (L-0)
Reab - 4 - Cirno,

killerjester

,

ViscaraEyes

, Klazam

...shows that VE and KJ have stacked on every lynch since KJ entered the game (and KJ's slot has been on EVERY lynch). That, along with Reab's presence on every wagon, helps explain the stupidly quick speed of the lynches.

[Cirno]

>VE is town, and is being set up by Ice-scum to secure a victory THIS DAY.
>Don't listen to his LIES!!

Come on now, VE, not even you believe anyone would ever sincerely write "Don't listen to his LIES!!" (complete with caps and a double dose of exclamation marks) in a mafia game. You're just being smug now.

[Cirno]

>Klazam flipflopping all over the place
>David continuing to do nothing
>Krazy continuing to megapost while convincing no one of anything
>Scum promising to make a case on scum
>People actually stop posting and wait for said case
>Meanwhile VE posts in another thread and neglects the case
>6 days until deadline

[Cirno]

If you want to me to write out a post because you've forgotten what I may or may not have written and can't take 15 seconds to look in iso, you can fuck right off.

[Cirno]

>The point is I'm killerjester and I ask questions I already know the answer to. Because sometimes scum slip up, and people catch these things.

So you were trying to cause me to slip up... by asking me a yes or no question... about whether or not I have commented on a doc save?

More likely, you wanted to attack me on something but couldn't actually remember if I'd actually made the argument you wanted to attack and were too lazy to check iso. The last line of your post would imply that said argument is "KJ/VE is still likely after the doc protect on VE". I've not been paying enough attention to know what the issue is with this argument, so if you want me to give an opinion on it, you'll have to explain it to me.

[Cirno]

So, from my understanding
-VE was protected by David on night 3
-Fire killed smarg
-There was only one kill
-Therefore either VE is not ice or ice no killed

Well, there is no way VE is not scum, so this would make him the remaining fire mafia. Eliminating the doc, that leaves scum among KJ, Krazy, Klazam.

Klazam and Krazy

Krazy is currently pushing Klazam as scum and Klazam has expressed a willingness to lynch Krazy. While Krazy's push on Klazam is utterly futile and could be viewed as distancing, Klazam actually pressured KJ into voting Krazy. I think this team is unlikely.

Klazam and KJ

Klazam claims to wish to lynch KJ, but is reluctant to commit to his vote. However, KJ does seem to feel that he needs to convince Klazam, and has put considerable effort towards doing so. Add to that the aforementioned pressure that Klazam put on KJ, and I think this team is the least likely.

Krazy and KJ

KJ claims to be willing to vote Krazy but had to be strong-armed into doing so and quickly found a reason to unvote even though Krazy remains one of his preferred lynches.

Of those, the latter seems the most likely and when added to the fact that I believe that Klazam is town, it becomes the only possibility. And of KJ and Krazy, KJ has more persuasive ability by far, so I'm keeping my vote where it is.

[Cirno]

By saying that VE "could just as easily have lynched KJ instead", you are referring to the fact that at one point both KJ and Reab were simulataneously at L-2? If so, that is misleading. In order to lynch KJ, VE required two more people to vote along with him. In comparison, Reab was effectively at L-1

without

VE's vote because Klazam had already definitively stated "Reab is scum.". This means that Reab was much more likely to be lynched than KJ and VE knew it. Therefore the statement "VE could just as easily have lynched KJ instead" is false. Hence VE bussed.

You dudes keep making me look back in the thread but you are only making my conviction stronger by doing so.

[Cirno]

>I think scum are playing an exceptionally good game this game
>EVERYONE in the game [...] has voiced pretty much absolute certainty that I'm scum