Open 318: By Nomination Only (Game Over)

[Rory the Roman]

Lame I may be, but foolish I'm not. Zito had a nice newby trap, and he caught, unsurprisingly, a newby. A particulary uncautious newby for jumping at such an obvious trap and for that reason not a great bandwagon to start with. I'm sure Zito can see this too. I am quite sure about this, because Zito is a very smart person who knows what "cognitive dissonance" means.

Or does he? To me it seems he just knows the words, but doesn't know their meaning. Cognitive dissonance is a theory from theoretical psychology, which states that a human will try to diminish the disparity between what he knows or believes and what he observes. Rationalization is usually the tool used for that. It's hardly applyable to the situation Zito created. Here on MS, cognitive dissonance starts to mean: "scum know more and this will seep into their normal posts". When this is read carefully, one will notice that this is exactly the opposite from what the term actually means.

Zito takes it even further, to let it mean "he says something and does something that doesn't follow from it". And then he hides it in a nice box with the label "cognitive dissonance", which has nothing to do with it. It isn't even a contradiction, for the simple reason that right from the newby games, people are told that they shouldn't claim right away. Amrum can hardly be blamed for reflexively voting Zito without thinking through. Not everybody remembers that claiming early was antitown because it gave away information to the scum.

Zito's trap never had the intention of catching scum, and zito's first serious vote is hidden by a smokescreen of syllables which most of the people can't see through.

[Rory the Roman]

Looool.

Rory. A) Not a newbie. B) Claiming doesn't give scum any information here. It doesn't give town any information, either.

Your actions show otherwise, Amrum. B) is an insult to my intelligence, and shows that you can't read very well.

Thems a lot of words, Rory. And you seem to be drawing a conclusion that I'm a naughty evildoer. Y/N?

Maybe. Either you are a cheap joker who kicks the game alive at the expence of a newby, or you are a fairly obvious scum who fakes his cases by hiding it in complicated words. The conclusion is that regardless of your allignment, your current vote can't be taken seriously.

@Copper. I think you are the one supposing, while we are the one trying to find reads. Don't try to "suppose" what our reads should be.

[Rory the Roman]

Unvote

Something has "shaken out."

Rory, are you an alt?

Nope.

Rory is a hydra who doesn't want reveal the players controlling him.

Yup.

[Rory the Roman]

Optimal play is typically doing the opposite of what GreyICE says.

Missed this post before. Lol.

NS, why do you suspect Copper? Simply because he won't reveal his heads? If so, do you also suspect Rory?

Rory, has this hydra played other games?

P-edit: That I am a newbie and very stupid, specifically.

Yeah, of course we have, seeing how 13 day long games are so common on MS.

[Rory the Roman]

@Copper. I think you are the one supposing, while we are the one trying to find reads. Don't try to "suppose" what our reads should be.

What are you saying here? That when you accuse someone of fake scumhunting, it's bad to assume you're calling them scum? If not Zito, then who? Your vote doesn't do anything in your pocket, and you seem awfully sensitive about being asked to take a stand.

I already answered this, but apparently you can't read. Yes, that is a very bad assumption. Just check my answer to PZ for that. And no, you don't own my vote and if you want PZ to be voted you'll have to do it yourself, because I won't until I actually see a reason to do so. If you want to know what my thoughts are about the game, follow Zito's example and ask what you can't understand. Don't try to be smarter then me and think for me because you aren't that smart.

@Zito. I'll wait. The easier example is that you are town throwing a gambit to get the game going. I think I would have voted you if I thought you were scum, don't you think?

As for the NS wagon, it's a little early. Can we do this around page ten so we actually know everyone is serious about it?

[Rory the Roman]

Maybe. Either you are a cheap joker who kicks the game alive at the expence of a newby

I think you're overestimating the depth of Zito's initial motivation to claim VT. I don't think it was intended to be a newbie trap - you can (maybe) logically extrapolate that the end result might only catch newbies, but I don't think Zito would have consciously known that before posting. My take was that it was pretty obviously a joke, with no intention to catch anyone.

This post drips with scumdroplets because A) it uses big words to make it seem as though she's saying something and B) it's mind-reading.

It's just NOT a pro-town thing to do, interpreting others' reactions for your own benefit. It'd better if she had

asked

Zito about his supposed "gambit."

Contrary to you, I can actually understand what Hoopla is saying. And although you might somewhere have heard that it isn't a protown thing to do to try to understand other people, you've heard wrong. Hoopla is making a lot of sense. Occams razor is applied, and the simplest explanation, that Zito simply claimed without thinking about what might happen, is found. Esspecially since Zito already hinted in post 37 that the intention had only been to get the game going.

Which means that you, NS, are seriously reaching to have a case on a very very reasonable player.

[Rory the Roman]

So she waffles on about claiming with conviction in real life mafia but refuses to take a stance on whether PZ actually is or isn't town because of his claim. Yeah, look closely... She never actually gives a read, it's all IIoA.

What else has she done?

Oh, that's right. Nothing.

She asks Amrun "

do you think you will be on the nomination list tomorrow?

"
She asks Twisted about his RVS vote.
She asks forest_air a general question.

Yeah, that's a summary of her scum hunting so far.

Then we get fluff about Rory that could have easily been explained by Rory itself.

Fenchurch is scummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. With 20 Ms for added emphasis.

BINGO:

vote muff

Lets analyse this post, shall we? The last sentence shos muff is quite certain about this call. This can happen, but if we analyse further, we see that he's mostly voting Fenchurch for active lurking or plain lurking, tells which are highly dependent on meta and don't have a reputation of being very accurate. This conviction is therefor fake.

If one adds to this that muff had to be asked to find reasons, one should become more worried. Because given these reasons (passivity, little interaction), there were many suitable targets, not Fenchurch alone. That's not because many players are bad, it's because the game is young. It's even more odd that muff semi buddys me here (I could explain a myself, apparently), because I've been withholding my vote in an obvious way, as has been observed by some clever townies.

tl;dr fake conviction, random target.

@Zito: I fear you'll have to wait a little for your top three. I'll try to provide it to you soon.

[Rory the Roman]

@Rory: Muffin is always like that. He always has too much conviction. In this game, just look at how much he says PZ is town without giving a reason at all.
With Muffin the tell doesn't really work :/

Still his choice to go only for Fenchurch (and not vitamin, Forest, NS, etc) and even go as far be friendly to me. He could have picked half the game for passivity right now.

[Rory the Roman]

You've called three players stupid, zero players scum, and zero players town. And

then

you have the gall to say we slow the NobodySpecial wagon until "page ten or so". Why? Like it or not, the game has begun, and you have to start voting for who you think is scum.

I think those three deserved it then. And you can't read.

First things first: NS doesn't survive. Like ever. It's cheap and easy to vote him, because you he is always scummy and he always gets lynched. Vote him on page ten, when we are close to a deadline and you are worth something. Vote him on his first four scummy posts and lurking, and you are just someone who doesn't bother to look well.

And why can't you read? Because right from the start, I mentioned that Amrum ran headlong into an obvious newby trap. She wasn't cautious at all. Now, does that sound to you like scum? I show how NS's case against hoopla doesn't hold at all, saying that hoopla is the voice of reason there. Have you ever said that about someone you didn't think town at that time?

Seriously copper, if you can't bother to read my posts and base my scumreads only based on my vote, you've totally joined the wrong game. Be a little less lazy and actually participate in this game.

As for Zito: I worry about a few people. I'm quite content with my current vote, but I worry a lot about VitaminR. I also worry about Forest, but that's more because she doens't seem to be following the game properly. It's a null tell, but its alarming for the activity of the following days. NS is scum. Like he always is. I can confirm hoopla's meta, and I'm greatly enjoying TS's play till now.

[Rory the Roman]

Prod received. Sorry, weekends have been busy for both heads. We should've said something.

[Rory the Roman]

Why Fenchurch? Rory is town.

Why do you think Rory is town? I think he's scummy. He's done very little, and what he has done has been super-defensive and with little-to-no scumhunting.

I'd like to disagree. I have had very little to defend, and before I had to go away this weekend, I summarized my reads till now in the game.

You're using (lack of) content as a scumtell for me (or at least a selling point)

No, I'm not. I commented that you didn't have any real content up until that point, but that's not why I think you're scum.

The relevance of content as a tell varies player by player - for some it's nearly irrelevant, but others, it's critical.

So you wrote a whole paragraph to explain this point and all its wishy-washy goodness?

I assume you had a point in writing this. Does it apply to your read on NS or something? Because that's what I was commenting on. It looks like a whole lot of irrelevant IIoA that you wrote for the sake of writing it.

My main willingness to lynch Nobody Special stemmed from a utility perspective: If I'm unlikely to be able to read a player, or will be able to read this player less in comparison to others, then it's a pretty weighty factor to consider for the D1 lynch.

So what do you think of NS wanting to lynch Copper earlier?

To be honest, I think the way you've been arguing for my lynch has started to become insincere.

I don't particularly care whether you think I'm being insincere. But, now that you've brought it up, is my 'insincerity' scummy to you?

I think I've provided very good reasons for why I've acted in certain ways - I can't account for your "gut" feeling, but it looks like it's starting to trump everything else, and you're now just cherry-picking whatever you can to suit your read, and ignoring what challenges it.

Cherry-picking? I assume you think I've overlooked some of the more 'pro-town' things you've been saying, or something? Care to highlight what I've overlooked and why you think I'm cherry-picking things to suit my read?

Who is individually scummiest (often when lists are organised like this, the top 2/3 never work together)? Who is the scumteam? Or who I'd most like to lynch? They all produce different answers. So, I'll let you pick which one you want me to answer before you accuse me of twisting the question.

I'm not sure why you couldn't answer one or all of those without asking which one I specifically wanted to know. But, now that you've brought it up, feel free to answer all of them. Feel free to also answer Twisted's concerns with your Rory=town statement, which you avoided answering with a joke about Twisted's hydra account being town. Cute.

I don't know why you're criticising Amrun for having a gut-based read, when that is entirely what your vote on me is predicated on.

That was a criticism of Amrun?

A. Pick a clear towny
B. attack
C. tunnel and fluff.

Newby scum tactics explained in 3 points. Esspecially since Hoopla has been making a surprising lot of sense.

As for Zito: I worry about a few people. I'm quite content with my current vote, but I worry a lot about VitaminR. I also worry about Forest, but that's more because she doens't seem to be following the game properly. It's a null tell, but its alarming for the activity of the following days. NS is scum. Like he always is. I can confirm hoopla's meta, and I'm greatly enjoying TS's play till now.

There was my top three TS/Zito. Muff #1, VitaminR #2, null/scum for NS/Forest, townreads include TS and Hoopla (which wasn't mention in this post).

It's not surprising that you think that I don't have any reads, or involvement in this game, if you don't read my posts. They aren't that long, I'm really trying to keep them short enough to stay readable, and they aren't too numerous.

[Rory the Roman]

Ok, time to react to this, I guess.

He's technically correct about cognitive dissonance, but it obvious what Zito meant, call it doublethink or craplogic if you prefer, and Rory's long post was mostly pointless, because he later says to 'stop assuming things, he would have voted Zito if he thought he was scum'. When Copper asks "If not Zito, then who?", his response is "If you want to know what my thoughts are about the game, follow Zito's example and ask what you can't understand." What was Copper doing there if not asking?

Copper expected a vote at the end of my first post, and it didn't come. Zito was confused as well, but wondered what the meaning was. Very simple, I explained everything I thought in that post, and I didn't want to vote.

My post was the best I could put out when the game had hardly started. I reacted too on what I thought zito meant, and explained how that was a difficult explanation for something easy. All in all, I think it's rather cheap to call a post on the first page pointless.

Then later in #149 he gets annoyed for the opposite reason, we haven't been assuming

enough

, and his reads should have been obvious. I think his reasons here don't make sense (

Amrun falling for a "newbie trap" means she is town, Hoopla saying something reasons means she is town

). He uses the phrase "worry about" to describe those he finds scummy, which I find odd.

And despite trying to hold back the wagon on NS until page 10, he declares that "NS is scum."

I'm having serious problems with the bolded statements. I have stated quite clearly that Amrum wasn't

cautious

at all to run headlong into PZ's opening. Scum generally are more cautious then town. Which means I have a read on Amrum. It's that easy but not anymore when you leave out the key adjective.

As for hoopla, I think that was where NS tried to make a case on her which frankly sucked, since he attacked a very understandable post from hoopla. Last time I checked that was something positive.

The about NS. I think you did this intentionally. I have actually repeated my stance on NS already, but twice apparently isn't good enough.

NS gets lynched. It's what he does. He is scummy in every game as either allignment. Voting him on page 5 with little commitment is cheap and easy and can be done by anybody. There is always a reason to votepark on NS. So either people commit and they go for a lynch (which people don't want to do at page 4 or 5), or they should find someone else to investigate.

Have you really never played with NS before?

Somehow I have the feeling you have trouble understanding me.

[Rory the Roman]

and the above is again tunneling on a towny. Can we lynch muff now please? It's obvious he is just going on with the argument, convincing himself more and more that he believes hoopla is scum. It's classic newby scum. Pick a target. Tunnel. Keep arguing because it's easier then starting somewhere new.

Rory: is making sensea towntell for Hoopla in your eyes?

Yes. I'm town. If I can understand where someone else is going most of the time, and I think their targets make sense, then they are likely of the same mindset as me. Meaning they are likely town. In this case, that makes hoopla my second strongest townread. (the first being TS for overall play).

The about NS. I think you did this intentionally. I have actually repeated my stance on NS already, but twice apparently isn't good enough.

NS gets lynched. It's what he does. He is scummy in every game as either allignment. Voting him on page 5 with little commitment is cheap and easy and can be done by anybody. There is always a reason to votepark on NS. So either people commit and they go for a lynch (which people don't want to do at page 4 or 5), or they should find someone else to investigate.

Have you really never played with NS before?

No, I don't think I've properly played with NS before, but I get what people are saying: he has a tendency to seem scummy, regardless of alignment.

I still don't like your response to his wagon, for these reasons:

1. Acting like early wagons aren't serious wagons weakens the reactions and information gained from them. And sometimes an early lynch is the correct one; and it's the threat that we might go through with it which keeps it useful.
2. It seems like you are trying to appear pro-town via the mantra 'early quicklynches are bad', whilst at the same time trying to keep NS viable as a later mislynch, by reiterating that he is null/scummy/reaching.
3. From the way you describe it, I don't see how it is any less "cheap and easy" to vote for NS later in the game. I get the impression from this that you are not especially interested in trying to read his alignment between now and then, just that you would be willing to lynch him because

that is what always happens

.

Essentially, it seems like your you were (perhaps unwittingly) acting to slow the game, and to quash information rather than to generate it, which isn't what I'd expect from town.[/quote]

1. A bit more nuance. A wagon on NS that isn't going for the lynch is just as easily joined by scum as town. Scum would like to park their vote there.
2. I'm all for quicklynches, don't worry about that. On the other hand, they just don't happen a lot. The NS wagon had no momentum.
3. Because chances are you are then directly reponsible for his lynch. There is a difference between voteparking (which is easy for scum if a lot of people do it on NS), or gunning for a lynch. The information gained from the latter is better. And if I had good tells on NS, I would try to use them. On this moment, I can't read him well. Hardcore lurking (beyond his normal lurking) supposedly is a scumtell for him.

[Rory the Roman]

In this case, that makes hoopla my second strongest townread. (the first being TS for overall play).

what do you like about my overall play?

also, have I played with one of your heads before?

Yes, a lot. Otherwise I wouldn't be as confident.

@Amrum. Now and then, scum totally miss it. They do something that seems logical, but wouldn't go the direction that town would take. Hoopla kept it up for 12 pages now.

[Rory the Roman]

Yes, now and then, scum totally miss it. But have you played with Hoopla as scum, Rory?

I have, and I really don't think Hoopla would just make a big logic fail as any alignment. She is supremely logical.

Having said that, I have a town read on her here, but she blitzed me as scum even though I had decided pre-game that her number choice made her likelier to be scum. -.-

I know hoopla well enough, I think.

Rory, next post, explain your 4 scum/null->scum reads.

Like, I get that you have a crush on me and everything (don't worry, you're not alone here), but I haven't actually seen you explain any of your reads in any substantial way. I've seen you waffle on about NS a lot, and how he is lynchbait, and whatever, but the only times I've even seen you mention your #2 scum pick (Vitamin), you haven't really explained why you think he's scummy. Also, your f_a read would be cool as well. And, er, anything to better explain your scum read on me other than because I'm attacking

your scum buddy

Hoopla would be cool, too.

It's almost as if you're tunneling me because it's easier than having to start somewhere new.

In the same post as I mention Vitamin for the last time (266) you get your answers. Vitamin is passive semi lurking scum who should know better. Esspecially on the passive part. For example: he sat back too long at the start of the game. I think I even bothered to make a case on you. There is your answer then.

Oh, and you are so clever for trying to use my argument against myself. Sadly, you missed the point where you simply keep nagging hoopla who is quite town, and you are newby scum.


PS. NS replacement is more likely town. Yay!

[Rory the Roman]

PS. NS replacement is more likely town. Yay!

town NS or frustrated or lazy NS?

Not the "I am going to see how much I can lurk and get away with it scum NS".

At least, if the mod was honest when saying that NS requested replacement.

[Rory the Roman]

I kinda disagree with you that it could be a town tell, actually. My feeling is that the source of confusion was that forest didn't quite realise that claiming is meaningless if there are no PRs. That's a null tell at best.

There is a possibility that she's inexperienced scum that was caught off-guard by townies claiming. If she's really trying to deny or keep shush about being confused, I think that would be the only reason why. Her reasons for being confused could come from her being scum. But I'd need to see a little more evidence for this story to take it seriously.

You want me to react to a post like this? At least I made my fluff post at the start of the game. And you are really surprised I think you are too passive?

[Rory the Roman]

In the same post as I mention Vitamin for the last time (266) you get your answers. Vitamin is passive semi lurking scum who should know better. Esspecially on the passive part. For example: he sat back too long at the start of the game. I think I even bothered to make a case on you. There is your answer then.

I kinda want to lynch you just for how annoying this is. Especially coming from someone who posts less than me, whose reads have to be weaseled out of him, and who steadfastly ignores every single question I ask him. I don't see how you can seriously think that I am scum, yet seem to have no interest at all in what I post.

Wait a minute. You joined this board 6 years ago.

and you seriously argued that you couldn't be more passive then me because you have more posts? And that I'm a hypocritical bastard for that reason?

[Rory the Roman]

I guess I have a reason for that then. Either I didn't read your question, or you were boring. I've even been so nice to answer amrum's question if I was really really sure that hoopla wouldn't be logical as scum too. Of course she would be, but the point was that she would make odd choices I couldn't follow, right?

You'd have to ask a very pointless question to beat that one.

[Rory the Roman]

Who knows. You might be right.

unvote vote VitaminR

[Rory the Roman]

So she waffles on about claiming with conviction in real life mafia but refuses to take a stance on whether PZ actually is or isn't town because of his claim. Yeah, look closely... She never actually gives a read, it's all IIoA.

What else has she done?

Oh, that's right. Nothing.

She asks Amrun "

do you think you will be on the nomination list tomorrow?

"
She asks Twisted about his RVS vote.
She asks forest_air a general question.

Yeah, that's a summary of her scum hunting so far.

Then we get fluff about Rory that could have easily been explained by Rory itself.

Fenchurch is scummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. With 20 Ms for added emphasis.

BINGO:

vote muff

Lets analyse this post, shall we? The last sentence shos muff is quite certain about this call. This can happen, but if we analyse further, we see that he's mostly voting Fenchurch for active lurking or plain lurking, tells which are highly dependent on meta and don't have a reputation of being very accurate. This conviction is therefor fake.

If one adds to this that muff had to be asked to find reasons, one should become more worried. Because given these reasons (passivity, little interaction), there were many suitable targets, not Fenchurch alone. That's not because many players are bad, it's because the game is young. It's even more odd that muff semi buddys me here (I could explain a myself, apparently), because I've been withholding my vote in an obvious way, as has been observed by some clever townies.

tl;dr fake conviction, random target.

No, actually muff, it was this. And then you picked a new target which was hoopla, and you newby-scum tunneled.

Its the target picking that is the unnatural part, for the one's who don't understand me.

[Rory the Roman]

Thoughts about the last page.

@Twisted. You won't find a single more logic person then CES on this board.

Copper is a nice surprise. That last post was good.

[Rory the Roman]

Hello. That's me.

Consider me punching my pillow for today.

[Rory the Roman]

No, actually muff, it was this. And then you picked a new target which was hoopla, and you newby-scum tunneled.

Its the target picking that is the unnatural part, for the one's who don't understand me.

Define unnatural.

Get a dictionary. You pick targets. You don;t investigate. There is a difference and you are on the scummy side of it.

I need to do a hefty re-read with note-taking.

I'm following, but I'm conflicted on a lot of my reads, and it's hard to keep sight of the big picture.

UNVOTE:

I like the points raised by both Amrun and CES in their last two posts.

CES, between #306 and #315 you flip your read on Rory. What prompted this?

this post makes me worry about you. You are the kind of person who would kill people at night. I really expected less lurking from you. The bolded is odd and scummy.

For ISO purposes.

Also, no, the other head isn't AV.

Also x 2, the other head is working every day now until Monday, so I don't know if I'll be around too much.

[Rory the Roman]

Yeah. I was pretty sure mykonian was one of the heads on Rory. Some of the posts had a prickly, and stretching to conclusions feel about them that myko and his alts seem to all do.

The main give away was when he was calling people "towny's" instead of townies

- a trait associated to mykonian and few others.

Damned English people that have everything easier.

On the other hand, finding out my alts isn't that hard. I think this was a personal record, not posting on the wrong account for 14 pages.

And my cases do make sense and aren't stretching to conclusions at all.

[Rory the Roman]

guys, very fun and all, can we get back to the scumhunting?

And no hoopla, I don't just believe in them. They actually make sense and are based on very common scum meta.

And TS. Believe us, we know. Nobody would fake a strong meta read. Stop worrying that you can be read.

[Rory the Roman]

We think she is a townie who cracked slightly under the constant pressure she got earlier in the thread. So yeah, town.

Obviously, that's subject to change when head number 2 re-reads the thread.

[Rory the Roman]

It's unlikely it will change, though, as that was always my first thought. She dealt fairly well with all the early pressure, truth be told.

[Rory the Roman]

My reads were a little shook up by the fact that most of what I thought was scummy about Rory can be attributed to myko being one of the heads and strong town reads on Hoopla and CES.

I think I'll allow this... But as soon as you start calling me Shotty2 I'm going to lynch you.

buddy much?

anyways, Like muffin says; Amrun wagon isn't legit anymore

Time to go back and join Copper

VOTE: Vitamin

Yes, very buddy much indeed.

I need to do a hefty re-read with note-taking.

I'm following, but I'm conflicted on a lot of my reads, and it's hard to keep sight of the big picture.

UNVOTE:

I like the points raised by both Amrun and CES in their last two posts.

CES, between #306 and #315 you flip your read on Rory. What prompted this?

this post makes me worry about you. You are the kind of person who would kill people at night. I really expected less lurking from you. The bolded is odd and scummy.

Why so? I've observed enough towns get carried away tunnelling on other townies, whilst giving scum a free ride that I try to avoid doing that myself. Without stepping back every now and then, it can be easy to get taken in by the players who draw attention to themselves and ignore those who don't.

No Fenchurch. You need to step

forward

and do something. Which is not posting a vague list of reads. The bolded sentence shows how you are playing this game. Sitting back, providing nothing, and not trying to change that. This post was scummy. You never got into the game well and now you try to see how far you can get without taking a single risk.

[Rory the Roman]

Copper and VitaminR both refusing to consider Amrun doesn't surprise me in the least.

Amrun is Today's lynch.

Sorry CES, but as by above post, I don't agree with you on today's lynch.

And sorry for the wrong account again. I shouldn't post this late.

[Rory the Roman]

I don't think PZ's lurking/inactivity/lack of contribution means anything in terms of alignment. I'd like any of the people voting / expressing-willingness-to-vote PZ to actually... you know... explain why.

oh come on. I really wished I were a vig. The above quote is worth nothing.

It's based on the common knowledge that lurking is supposedly only antitown, not scummy. There is not a single bit of original thought in the above.

FoS muff

PZ has never shown the intention to get back into the game. And where NS, the known lurker, replaced out, PZ is happily keeping his spot, while knowing he provides nothing. If he really hasn't kept up, it'll be to tough for him to get back into the game, and he would know that. But still he is here, showing no improvement.

The annoying bit of all this is that I don't think muff-scum would be defending his buddy like this.

[Rory the Roman]

I don't think PZ's lurking/inactivity/lack of contribution means anything in terms of alignment. I'd like any of the people voting / expressing-willingness-to-vote PZ to actually... you know... explain why.

oh come on. I really wished I were a vig. The above quote is worth nothing.

It's based on the common knowledge that lurking is supposedly only antitown, not scummy.

There is not a single bit of original thought in the above.

FoS muff

muffin is scum because he doesn't see how not posting makes PZ scum

And another useless post from our muff. I don't know how you manage to replace my quote for yours, and I frankly don't care. It's quite the insane strawman.

[Rory the Roman]

Oh, right. You were FoSing me but you don't think I'm scum, even though you've been calling me scum all game.

That makes sense.

My bad. I misquoted you, lololol.

the time for jokes is over.

Vote muff

[Rory the Roman]

Vote: Papa Zito

A marginally more viable wagon.

Is this prompted by anything in his last post? If not, then what?

Survival instincts. Come on, you aren't that blond.

[Rory the Roman]

Where's my Hoopla.

Here!

Waiting for the day to end so we can begin the game. Amrun lynch is still fine with me - offered a compromise, people seem content just letting Amrun getting deadline-lynched. Whatevs. Same result.

those are shitty way's to end a day. Can't have that. Esspecially when I think the lynched is just townie acting like a punching bag.

vote zito

[Rory the Roman]

Hoopla's reasonings are exactly what we'd expect from her. It made, and makes her town to us. Muffin would have been insane to do this as scum, hoopla is right in that, which leaves CES. He's most likely town, but unfortunately the hardest to read and the one who would have been in the position to gambit.

vote CES

PZ's fenchsitting by delaying his vote with the question on Malpa is obvscum.

[Rory the Roman]

Hoopla's reasonings are exactly what we'd expect from her. It made, and makes her town to us. Muffin would have been insane to do this as scum, hoopla is right in that, which leaves CES. He's most likely town, but unfortunately the hardest to read and the one who would have been in the position to gambit.

vote CES

PZ's fenchsitting by delaying his vote with the question on Malpa is obvscum.

Rory, how important do you think todays vote is?

You are very right in this question.

I agree that this seems very likely to be an all town session. The only way to make this important is to get out the worst of them. Thanks for asking, because my vote should be:

vote muff

It's a shame that he'll come up town, but that probably can't be helped. The big problem with this vote is that gambiting scum would have wanted it, but just how likely is that? Hoopla didn't, and CES... well if Vitamin is so certain, lets go with it. Both are however, much more useful in laters days then muff will be, I think. No use in giving scum their NK when we don't need to. (and for the clever among you, I'm aware that I and muff didn't go along well).

[Rory the Roman]

If we reason from the assumption that we have an all town nomination: Who would scum want to go?

[Rory the Roman]

I don't want to vote any of them.

Meaning I don't know what to do here.

This is debilitating.

Well, PZ of course. Fenchurch perhaps. And further we'll see.

[Rory the Roman]

Hmm, PZ looks town to me today. This is worrisome.

I don't know how you do it.

I'd be very much saddened if Hoopla of these three was going. As was remarked here: Hoopla is the scariest town to scum simply because she isn't that predictable.

She was a solid townread, but although I get her reasoning here for the self-lynch, I didn't expect it from hoopla (the same hoopla who didn't bodyguard anyone because nobody was as confirmed town to her as herself).

[Rory the Roman]

I should avoid getting prodded etc. Hydra got his head cut off and the wound was burned, I think.

[Rory the Roman]

Once again, we reach prod range without feeling there's much to say. Papa Zito gets some townpoints for his line of thought re: randomness, but not many, since scum could privately ask the moderator before embarking on the questions in-thread. Still, we concede that the original thought is more likely to come from town than scum.

As we've said before,

over-thinking the even day lynches is a surefire way to have the town drown itself in pointless speculation.

Just think, "If I KNEW one of these people were scum, who would it be?" And don't

dwell

on it. In the likely case of an all-town list, this is pointless wankery. In the possible case of scum on the list, it's almost impossible to guess whether they played it straight or not with three targets who are mostly equally lynchable. Just pick your biggest scumread independent of the list and vote.

Just after Vitamin made the somewhat risky move to call PZ town (general sentiment was neutral-scum), copper follows. I think the bolded is a meaningless catchphrase little abused by town and see peoples points about Copper being scum.

Okay I'm back. Irrelevant of the nomination list, my biggest scummy-read is zMuffin.

VOTE: zMuffin

I don't mind going for one of the others if it's to get a lynch, but I'd be happiest lynching him. Hoopla's reasoning for why she would let herself be lynched seems townish to me, I don't really feel strongly on CES, but I do think zMuff is scum based on his play day 1: spending a lot of time pushing hard on two wagons that had no support. I think this is something scum like be inclined to do, because it makes them seem busy, and they can avoid taking flak for a mislynch, or for lurking. Although he did get on the Amrun wagon at the end, when it was coming down to the deadline, but he dithered when the Zito wagon was forming. If zMuff is scum, I think there is a good chance Zito is too, and that he was considering bussing at that point.

This seems to change often. It's late and my mind is far from clear, but I'm sure Fenchurch already was convinced a vote somewhere else was perfect. Not that I'm going to bother, Muff is a good lynch.

[Rory the Roman]

You're assessing these posts now with the knowledge that you have of what liars do in general. In a highly specialised game where we're all capable liars, it's fraught with risk using a standard blueprint of tells to assess suspicion, when patterns of behaviour vary significantly. In some instances, if you can't find unique patterns pertaining to the individual, using tells based on general experience is valid, but in CES' case, that particular pattern is pronounced enough, that it's better to base a read off that than anything else.

I can understand if you find it hard to believe, because you haven't experienced that pattern for yourself, but me flipping town should be enough to vouch for the validity of my meta read. CES won't sacrifice that piece of meta, to play an elaborate, cagy scumgame this time around, because he then never gets to use the meta-out of being a no-frills scumplayer. The value of keeping that meta alive for future games is much more important than cashing it in for cheap town credit right now, because he can constantly reuse that meta when he finds himself in situations where he'd need to be gambitty scum to be scum, if he stays true to the meta. I've witnessed this pattern of play in CES long enough for it to be true. I don't believe he'd throw it away for one game's benefit.

The no frills scumplayer is definately in CES's character.

Keeping it alive for future game totally isn't. He's town here though, so he can use it without giving it up.

Eh, part of me doesn't really buy Hoopla's sacrificial play. It feels designed to buy her pro-town cred.

I agree. Such a shame you are only focussing on her recent posts.

Daytalk has nothing to do with whether CES would pick himself (or let himself be picked by his teammates) for nomination.

Coaching.

Damn you hoopla, for designing a game where I can't vote scum.

Fenchurch is a beacon of townieness

No she isn't.

preview edit:

Wifom

only exists in cases where there is a disparity in the expected value of each value. Otherwise it's

random

.

Random

holds no information.

Wifom

does.

[Rory the Roman]

Fenchurch is a beacon of townieness

No she isn't.

I haven't seen you make an entire VCA spreadsheet

That is something I highly doubt scum consider doing

explain why Fenchurch isn't town then?

I think I have the scum experience to say that by far the easiest way to add to a discussion is to post something completely objective and large. VCA's, Lists of reads on players, Post-by-post analysis, theory, logical deductions etc. Everything that can easily be followed by everyone and that everyone can see is right. It's the cheapest towncred available.

But eh, why fenchurch isn't town? Adding little to discussion, not coming out of a troublesome early game with great and sharp reads. It's what you expect from someone who hangs back at the start as town, to make some amazing post halfway day one which catches some point made in early game which means something. But we are still waiting for Fenchurch her great post, and she is certainly able to make that as town in a game like this.

[Rory the Roman]

I have a feeling that PZ is pushing a mislynch in malpa

Hm. Why do you say it's a mislynch, Twisted?

Because I have a gut feeling that malp may be town. All of his play, even from NS suspecting copper from the start, has seemed too original and odd to be scum. PZ reads as a dark horse possible mafioso to me, along with Roman

I say we find out tomorrow. I'm going to lynch Zito.

Also remind the way NS was a target for some time with some votes parked on him.

[Rory the Roman]

CES, why do you think I'm scum? Don't say because of Copper, because if that's your only reason, you should be voting Copper.

I think it took you too long to shake off your conservative approach. Too many town reads early on (I would have expected e.g. some more skepticism towards Hoopla since she's good at this game).

P.S. even if it was just because of Copper, voting Copper at this point in time seems fairly pointless and I wouldn't waste my main weapon on such an endeavour. Not a good argument.

awesome post

PZ, what do you think of Copper? You've hardly mentioned him.

I'm entirely underwhelmed by both of our hydras. I'm additionally suspicious of Copper for that moonbeams wagon analysis. However, dead malp is my priority.

Lets do this:

vote Zito

. hardcore tunneling + lurking is fun, and scum.

[Rory the Roman]

I've been working on a presentation for a seminar tomorrow, so I haven't actually had any time to do the analysis I want to do and I won't have time to do heavy reading before some time tomorrow night.

I think Rory is the safest lynch right now. I can't see any scum team that he's not a part of. Is there anyone that thinks he's not scum? If so, what do you think the most likely scum team is? Or if you're not comfortable picking a scum team, tell me why you think Rory is town.

In fact, I'm not part of any team, so no matter how "safe" you make it to be, it's still a mislynch. Not that that will be avoided in the long run, but before that there is scum to lynch and I'll be part of that. Hoopla got lynched yesterday, and it shouldn't have been. I partially blame Zito there for tipping the scales.

I'm not going to follow onto vitaminR. His latest responses to CES seem truthfull, and I would expect them from townie-vitamin in such a situation.

Further, making a case on a scumteam based on PoE is one of the easiest ways to fake scumhunt (and it's horribly inaccurate too), as all you have to do is buddy up to all but 3 of the game and lynch the rest.

[Rory the Roman]

Lets do this:

vote Zito

. hardcore tunneling + lurking is fun, and scum.

I'm

lurking? Lol?

So you're going to give me all kinds of great reasons why malp is town right? Ok go.

Hi Zito. I'd like to thank Fenchurch for this great analysis of the votes:

Spoiler: Votecharts to date

(mix in filehosting since photobucket was making the first image smaller than the others)

You have voteparked on NS/Malpa before, and now you are just back where you started. NS was a target anyway, and seen that you even parked your vote there, I doubt he is scum. You are though.

[Rory the Roman]

So yet again I'm going to ask you what makes malp (or NS) town, since that's the basis of your entire 'argument'

Because you are scum.

Then why am I scum?

Because you were voteparking on NS/Malp.

[Rory the Roman]

I don't get it either. Your argument is that Zito is scum, because malpa is town; and malpa is town, because Zito is scum. Why are you insisting on circular logic, Rory?

I'm working on the assumptions that townies don't votepark.

I see Zito lurking and keeping his vote on Malpa, coming back etc. Among posts which are off to me (and I have commented on till then)

I reason Zito must be scum and malpa consequentely town (since scum parks a vote on him).

Never in this reasoning is the implication that Zito must be scum because malpa is town ever used. Zito made it seem circular. It certainly isn't.


because I'm not stupid and I am logical. Thanks.

[Rory the Roman]

My issue with Twisted's case on Zito is this; he seems to use the same reason to clear malpa and condemn Zito: their votes for "innocents". If malpa-scum wouldn't want to draw attention, then why wouldn't Zito-scum be concerned about the same thing?

Oh wow, scum alert. Maybe I was too quick to declare you a townie. I feel like tou are being purposefully dim here. Malp and PZ clearly have very different experience levels that make a massive difference in terms of how their actions should be interpreted.

Maybe you are scum with PZ and Copper.

That would make some sense.

"Can we keep this one, dad? Pleeaaaaase?"

Now seriously, those are the people on top of my scumlist. And VitaminR just moved up in my townlist.

[Rory the Roman]

What's your scum list?

PZ, Copper, Fenchurch?

I could agree that Vitamin is town, but not based on who he suspects.

That might be a personal thing. More often then not the person who thinks in the same direction as I do is of the same allignment. It's pretty much the strongest town tell I can find.

I've sorta been lazy with mafia these past few days. Will put some effort into catching up properly over the next 24 hours after some sleep. Apologies for the inactivity.

I don't think you have to worry that much. The game died a bit with that second day.

[Rory the Roman]

I'm working on the assumptions that townies don't votepark.

That's it?

Seriously?

So I've provided reasons why I want malp dead, and I've voted malp because I want him dead, and this makes me scum. hooookay then

And you've parked your vote there without adding much all of day 1. Yes, congratulations, you got a scum pm.

[Rory the Roman]

For reference:

If there were scum on the wagon then I'd guess it's Zito, zMuff, or both. I couldn't say strongly. Rory's point about Zito's voteparking does sense. But I think zMuff's play has been scummy too. And I don't really like how a lot of people said they would lynch him yesterday, and then failed to follow through.

zMuff, what is your own answer to your question?

Question to anyone who wants to give an answer to this, and the answer will probably vary based on who you suspect, but: Why do you think Amrun's wagon stalled at L-2 for ages on D1?

Ok, Pz is still obvscum and rory's vote looks incredibly like a bus to me. PZ can go first though. There's no way that the Amrun wagon was 100% town

BB is stalking my games it would appear. I grew quite fond of copper, so Bb, you have big shoes to fill. What is your previous mafia experience btw?

My V/LA is causing poor play in many of my games, but i'm determined to see this Pz lynch through

Finally, I don't want this to look like blackmailing your vote at all Fenchurch,

but you will look suspect should Pz flip scum with your lukewarm read on him

and hoopla's dying words being suspicion on you

If you people ever get out of your mind that I'm certain scum, posts like the above would become perfect. The bolded captures in essence what happens in the above post where Fenchurch is avoiding the wagon.

Although I really really dislike Muff in this game, posts like the above by fenchurch, and his placement in yesterday's group make that I can't see him as scum.

VitaminR has been prodded. Searching for a replacement for Cogito Ergo Sum...

You have him as V/LA in the above VC. Lets keep CES, please

[Rory the Roman]

Fenchurch is my scum #2, so would be up for lynching her as well. Her reasons for thinking I'm scum are flimsy and constantly changing. She seems like a player who is hard to read as scum, because she's consistent and reasonable, but I don't think her attack on me is sincere. I don't buy that she wouldn't have doubts, considering my somewhat erratic and heavily gut-based play today. She's just been dispassionately and quite reasonably saying that she thinks I'm scum. Doesn't ring true to me.

a) What? You say I'm "flimsy and constantly changing", yet also "consistent and reasonable". As far as I know, I haven't been flimsy or changing in my reasoning against you at all.
b) It's not based so much on your play today. As I said, I think that it can be easiest for scum to "fake it" when they're under attack. On Day 1, you suggested yourself that it is useful to see how suspects act when not under pressure.
c) Of course I have doubts, I never feel certain who is scum until they get lynched. But I still feel more sure on you, for the reasons that I've given. However, it seems that no one agrees with me on that.

basically I think Vitamin is townier than Fenchurch. That's all. If hoopla found fenchurch suspicion, then I sure can

I think you could be wrong about Vit. And agh, Hoopla never even said why she was suspicious of me; and she's mislynched me before.

Overdefensive.

(YES. I've wanted to say that at a moment it applied for a long time! Succes!)

[Rory the Roman]

Alright. Just finished a readthrough. Here's my notes if you wanna read them, I stopped halfway through just cause it came to a point where I'd have to address a point I missed in order to make another point. Also, no notes sped up the reading.

<snip>

This post. This damn post.

"I've read the whole thread, but I don't really have any actual reads or opinions on anyone. Everyone is null. Hurr, look at me, I'm trying though. Look, I'm oh so town. Oh, Zito is the biggest wagon, so if I call him slight scum, that'll keep me being town."

No. You're scum. I don't care if my hydra partner disagrees, but this is such a scummy post. You might as well have not posted it, it's an attempt to look busy but not actually providing anything of any substance. Like a scumbag. I won't change the vote without talking to mykonian, but basically I want you strung up as much as if not more than Zito.

[Rory the Roman]

Also, if we are your third biggest scum read, why are you voting us over the only person you've said is slightly scum, or over the next person?

[Rory the Roman]

That said, mal has closely followed up with a "Oh, I think he's scum, but I'm hedging my bets for now" on Zito.

Mykonian has mal as town, I think. I disagree.

[Rory the Roman]

SCORE. Permission granted

unvote

VOTE: BBmolla

Will also mercilessly hammer Zito.

[Rory the Roman]

Granted, Zito is at L-2 again, but I want a BBmolla lynch now. Zito isn't going anywhere, he can't talk himself out of it. Goddamn these non-normal mechanics. GODDAMN THEM.

[Rory the Roman]

Also, coupled with Copper's active lurking and general play, BBmolla is a :goodlynch:

[Rory the Roman]

from VCA alone
at least 1 of {Papa Zito, Twistedspoon} is scum (early NS wagon)
at least 1 of {zMuffinMan, Twistedspoon, Fenchurch, Papa Zito} is scum (Amrun wagon)
at least 1 of {VitaminR, zMuffinMan, Twistedspoon, Copper, Papa Zito} is scum (Hoopla wagon)

VOTE: Papa Zito

Reading the thread over the course of today.

I like you. You're switched on.

I'll give you a chance to re read the thread, but I will say now, I'm quite willing to hammer Zito.

[Rory the Roman]

So is tunnelling on scum who are actually scum a bad thing Molla? Thought not. You're scum, and you're dead next day phase. I promise. Shame I didn't get the hammer, but oh well.

Equinox:

Don't feel bad, I was going to hammer Zito by the deadline anyway

Molla is bussing his partner, and only decided I was scummy after we voted him. Also, the reason the change to you was so sudden was it was the second hydra head (aka me) who decided you were scummy, so it came out of the blue because I suddenly had a realisation. We disagree on malpaspc, so it's inevitable things are different as a hydra. Have you ever played with a hydra again?

Quilford: Via your VCA, do you think Twisted and Zito would be on the same wagon so early?

Out of those three, I would lynch zMuffinman. Twisted would be a far away second, and Quilford would be a miles away third. It depends on what Mykonian wants to do. Well, I'll start the ball rolling VOTE: zMuffinman

[Rory the Roman]

YEAH one scum down (I was really going to hammer him, but I'm glad there was some discussion before it)

Now pfff...

I really got Quilford as town in these first posts of him, despite CES being one of my strongest scum-reads. I also read Twisted and zMuffin as town, but zMuffin has been less contributive recently.

Not voting for now.

Scum scum scum scum scum scum scum scum scum.

no no no

zMuffin is town because mafia would not call each other strong town reads

they just wouldn't

there's no wifom involved

Well, bad scum would. Anyway, the chances of all three being town is quite high, and zmuffin is the least likely to be helpful.

-Head Number 2~

[Rory the Roman]

Just to clarify, Gloating + "I was gonna hammer honest" = scummy as hell.

[Rory the Roman]

Hahaha wow.

Well I still think Twisted is town. zMuff or CES/Quilford seem more plausible candidates for a Zito-buddy. CES voted him early, but due to his V/LA he wasn't a driving force behind this lynch like he has been for others. I like Quilford's entry to the game.

zMuff cited Zito as town early in the game, which migrated to a scum read throughout D3, yet he never got as far a placing a vote. zMuff is probably the most likely partner out of these.

But given that CES and zMuff were on the list last time, and that they've been put up with obv-town Twisted, it does seem likely that they're all town.

I think I was wrong about Vitamin, I doubt he's scum given the way that he led two wagons on PZ.
Which leaves Rory, BBmolla and malpa.

Rory - he's been throwing a lot of accusations around, which could make sense in a game where scum have to get the majority of the town lynched. eg. yesterday he said that because PZ was voteparking on malpa, malpa was town, but today he's saying that malpa is scum.

BBmolla - Copper presence was minimal and BBmolla came in at the right moment to bus. His iso-notes on some players (eg. malpa, me) seem un-genuine.
malpa - stuck with his Vitamin vote and basically ignored the Zito wagon until right at the end of the Day. If they're buddies then Zito was trying to bus malpa pretty hard, but I find that plausible since malpa is playing pretty scummy.

VOTE: zMuffin

Molla is bussing his partner, and only decided I was scummy after we voted him. Also, the reason the change to you was so sudden was it was the second hydra head (aka me) who decided you were scummy, so it came out of the blue because I suddenly had a realisation.

We disagree on malpaspc

, so it's inevitable things are different as a hydra. Have you ever played with a hydra again?

Fenchurch says we are throwing a lot of accusations around. I think that's odd. We wanted PZ lynched. We agree on molla scum, and we disagree on the third. One head says malpa. Other head says Fenchurch. This head has found yet another point where Fenchurch is simply trying to paint things as black as possible with some quality "oh I didn't read that" stuff.

rory papa zito was accusing malpa of being scum for most of the time he was alive

ill need to read their interactions though so I can determine whether it was distancing or not, because nobody ever jumped on his wagon iirc

This is indeed head ones line of reasoning. Zito's vote was parked on malpa for much of day 1 and from there followed the townread. Head 2 is of the opinion that one shouldn't trust tells which scum could have forseen and wants to actually get a read on malpa. Head 1 has trouble reading NS/Malpa and relies on circumstantial tells. Which is where our disagreement comes from.

However, nothing is lost, because we agree on Molla and that scumbag is going down tomorrow. Further, we agree also that Quilford (hi) and Twistedspoon are the towniest, and the most productive from the three up today, so we are going to lynch Muff and nothing else.

I hope this clarifies some stuff.

[Rory the Roman]

I have to say, that head 2 has a point. Malpa is scummy in his latest posts. He isn't making a big move onto us, but only discredits the townread quilford apparently got on head 2 (who made the posts around the lynch).

To discredit a townread, without making a move yourself is a way in which scum tries to keep the town from banding up. A townie who didn't believe a townread of another townie would have to have good reasons for that, and follow up with them. There has been a surprising small amount of cases made against us, and certainly not by malpa. So malpa doesn't have good reasons to suspect, isn't trying to get us out asap, but does go through pains to discredit Quilfords townread: scummy as hell.

[Rory the Roman]

My guess is that scum nominated Twisted because they want to guarantee one of the other two to be lynched. Most probabily zMuff, and that's why they nominated him twice; they want him dead. I'd suggest not to do so.

*blinks*

*looks again*

the guts this guy has. Twisted is, I think, the number one townread accross this game. And we can't lynch malpa

because he was nominated twice

. Uhm, like CES/Quilford was too. Oh. So scum want them really dead, which is why we have to choose TS? LOL

Scum don't want to give us options that could be mislynches. Naturally they keep the same people there who we already agreed on were likely town the last time.

I want dayvig powers.

[Rory the Roman]

My guess is that scum nominated Twisted because they want to guarantee one of the other two to be lynched. Most probabily zMuff, and that's why they nominated him twice; they want him dead. I'd suggest not to do so.

*blinks*

*looks again*

the guts this guy has. Twisted is, I think, the number one townread accross this game. And we can't lynch

muff

because he was nominated twice

. Uhm, like CES/Quilford was too. Oh. So scum want them really dead, which is why we have to choose TS? LOL

Scum don't want to give us options that could be mislynches. Naturally they keep the same people there who we already agreed on were likely town the last time.

I want dayvig powers.

Fixed.

[Rory the Roman]

scum got their choice yesterday. Hoopla was the best lynch they could get. The most erratic scumhunter who was obviously town was lynched. Bad idea.

If you don't believe me, check on which wagon Zito ended. He was obviously ok with it. I still dislike (for that reason too) fenchurch her last move from Zmuff (in favour of who's lynch she argued very much) to CES which practically hammered Hoopla, and partially coppers placement on the wagon. Add you as the odd one out and we have my scumlist.

This day, muff should go. Too bad, so sad, but the others are simply better IMO. And they are more obviously town.

[Rory the Roman]

I think it would be nicer to the mod and the replacement, to just lynch the guy and leave it at that. We wanted to lynch him anyway (4-0-0, at L-1) so it's kind of a dick move to let someone replace into that slot, reread, make a single post and then hammer him.

Stop stalling malpa.

[Rory the Roman]

vote: malpaspc

Will vote BBMolla as well, but I'm more confident on him so he can wait. Let's put some pressure on malpaspc.

-Nexus (Yeah, I'm the second head, obviously).

[Rory the Roman]

Sorry for changing my mind.

Vote:BBmolla

Waaaay scummier than Cooper. Also I had this gut thing on Coop, but BBmolla is very lynchable to me.

I would like to remember that we need to lynch scum today, or else ~WIN

Wait. What?

7 alive. 2 scum.

Mislynch today = 6 alive, 2 scum
Mislynch tomorrow = 5 alive, 2 scum
Mislynch the third day = 4 alive, 2 scum.

We have two mislynches. Wtf are you smoking?

Also. Twisted, you're a nice guy, but you're wrong about us. We aren't scum, k? BB and mal are. Good boy.

[Rory the Roman]

What NK?

Okay, is that a townslip? I can't see scum forgetting they don't have an NK.

[Rory the Roman]

VOTE: Roman

trust me here like you trusted me on PZ (who I made a very good case on in my mind whilst on holiday heer in Austria and am slightly dissapointed that it is now obsolete)

well done for eliminating muffin, he was the best lynch even though we were all obvtown

I return from holiday on saturday. Forgetting that I'm here will cause... consequences when I return.
The nerve the scumteam have for putting me up too. It only confirms mz suspicions that I'm a threat to them and my reads are correct.

Ok. YOU ARE WRONG.

I hope that message came accross. Read why I posted that I would lynch Zito day 2. You got a scumread on my day 1 and day 2 you assumed I was hardline bussing because that's the only way you can get your theories together. Just check again what made me find out Zito and know that you weren't the only one right.

So yes, you are pissing me off for hardcore tunneling on your scumread day one for which you need a frankly amazingly hard bus to justify. Even more, the only point in favor of that bus that you have is that our second head unvoted at the point where the Zito lynch was already inevitable (after I pushed the wagon for day 2 and 3), coming with some theory that this would make the lynch of zito less likely: there was no counterwagon, I had been in favor of it and did more then enough to make that very lynch damned likely.

TL;DR: YOU ARE WRONG.

[Rory the Roman]

And for the vote: Fenchurch votes Malpa. Malpa votes Molla. Both heads agree on Molla, and so does Vitamin. Vitamin sounded honest in its defense against the paranoid CES, who knows him well. Vitamins point about Malpa almost making Zito a viable counterwagon day 1 is more then a slight towntell. This leaves Fenchurch and Molla. And it seems to fit so well.

vote BBmolla

[Rory the Roman]

That's L-1, and I'm perfectly fine with that. I won't have any problem with a hammer either. So Fenchurch, it's your last shot to make us doubt our reads.

[Rory the Roman]

^All Mykonian. I still wanted to keep pressure on Mal, but whatever. Pretend we have two votes, one on mal and one on BB.

-Nexus

[Rory the Roman]

Woo Hydra Schizophrenia~

Sorry guys, this million post won't happen again

-N

[Rory the Roman]

still think Rory is suspect though, and explains well why muffin was nominated twice. Not liking his attitude to me either

I don't like yours either. I've been in the scum lists for pretty much the whole game simply because I was in scumlists before. And you are particulary persistant in that, and that annoys me.

Now as for Fenchurch-BBMolla: It's christmas! My scumteam is there, with BBmolla as this slots nr1 scum, who is going to get hammered by Fenchurch no matter if Fenchurch is actually scum or not.

Which is why I have to disappoint you Quilford: I'm not going to hammer Fenchurch, and I'm mostly agreeing with Vitamins reasons: it's simply more likely that Molla is scum.

[Rory the Roman]

Did fenchurch not see his townslip?

The jumble over mislynches/nightkills? Yeah I don't consider it a townslip.

I've seen players like malpa turn out to be scum before, despite commiting towntells due to their supposed confusion, eg. Kristoph_ in Newbie 903.

There was time spend on this: she even copied a link etc to make sure we keep considering Malpa scum.

His game day 1 was anti-PZ, he was being voteparked on by PZ etc. Further, Fenchurch seems to be arguing against Malpa being town in stead of malpa being scum. And yes that's different.

and throughout Fenchurch's ISO I can see more of a case on PZ than anyone else and yet her first vote for him was day before yesterday

What are you saying here, that in my iso I made more of a case on PZ than anyone else, yet didn't vote him? Where did I make a case on PZ? At the end of Day 1 I thought he was a bit scummy but then I thought his contributions Day 2 were okay. He certainly wasn't the main person I've made a case on, are you ignoring Amrun, malpa, Rory, zMuffin, Vitamin?

I didn't know PZ was gonna flip scum, the main scumtell he committed was lurking and voteparking. Maybe I should've picked up on those earlier but I felt there were other players more scummy than him.

And some defense against her really being legit etc.

And in all this, Fenchurch didn't hammer Molla, while she is on L-1. Very honorable and calm etc, but hardly normal town.

OMG I'm so tunneling.

[Rory the Roman]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-

If Fenchurch flips town, can we please lynch malpaspc as soon as we get the chance? Thanks.

inb4 Twistedspoon, Us and VitaminR up for the nominations.

[Rory the Roman]

Actually, BB should have been, and shall be the next lynch if possible.

[Rory the Roman]

Called it! Though I'm kinda sad I wasn't actually on that lynch.

Anywho, this game is basically won. All we need to do is never lynch two of malp, Quil, and TS and we can't lose.

And more importantly, lynch molla. Fenchurch's lack of hammer on BBMolla makes him all the more likely to be scum.

[Rory the Roman]

VOTE: Malpaspc

I agree with Quilford. BB is the final scum. I've been saying it for at least two days.

[Rory the Roman]

WHY NOT LETS LYNCH SCUM

vote Molla

[Rory the Roman]

The closer this game gets to lylo, the smaller the scum's influence on the "night" becomes. In this game scum were killed by the amount of townreads flying around. And I don't believe that was their fault, they didn't make those townreads with their choices. And when those townreads were there, scum had no way to do anything about it. The people lynched in the "night" (Hoopla, Muff, Malpa) were everytime the players at least a few of the townies had doubts about. The obvtown slots of CES and TS couldn't be touched. In a normal game, they would have been the first to go.

And it's even worse closer to the end of the game, because at 4, scum still have to put up three. You like the WIFOM element there, probably, but all you are creating is a situation where either scum puts up themselves or town gets a free shot to lynch the best mislynch. It's kind of harsh on scum, and you are asking from one of them to be in the

top 2

townies, compared to a normal game where you ask from scum to have one in the top half. (as the top gets nightkilled away).