Open 320- Tit for Tat: Game Over!

[Luxury]

From now on will be posting on Luxury, as of now still no other head.

Is your second quote the wrong post?Because you're referencing my Magua joke-vote, which isn't mentioned in that quote. But yes, it's an obvious joke. He says to make him feel welcome. So I welcomed him (I've done this with replacements before, don't make me self-meta!).

Forgot to quote to quote the part where you said Magna was a joke vote, but didn't see the part about didn't see it as a joke vote as I made the case in ISO. I remember what post you're talking about though that makes it a joke. Congratulations, you've discredited one small line of my case.

I cannot put into words how nobody realizes that I take suspicion of me with no good reason very poorly. Or how poorly written that sentence was.

How is that post hypocritical?

It's hypocritical because you've asked for explanation on a lot of things, yet until you have explained next to nothing. And saying "I play like that" is, contrary to popular belief, not a solid defense from an attack.

DID I wagon onto Seraph? No. I was being curious.

AKA wagontesting/wagonfishing. You've repeatedly stating that you're willing to wagon Sera but have yet to make a stance on his alignment, granted this cannot be entirely your fault as his lack of posting is ridiculous. But the fact that you keep mentioning him and your willingness to wagon him is what strikes me as scummy.

Examples, in no order as I picked them out from ISO:

I'll sheep that.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Seraphim
So Harry Potter lasted 2+ days?

Hey Stefan.
While I agree malp is scummy.
Did you read Magua's post?
And the one Seraphim posted?
You should.
Just sheep Magua onto Seraphim.

Seraphim said in his last post he was going out to see Harry Potter. Since he hadn't posted since then...
So no comments on me being scum?
PEDIT: Making a solid case on someone scummy and then not voting is protown?

Sigma
veydark
malp
Seraphim

In there.

Seraphim's V/LA is over, right?

Yeah, I'm just going to go on the biggest wagon of those 4, which at the moment is verydark. Notice his misrep of me? Cool.

Expressing intention to wagon verydark, but shows willingness to lynch any of his 4 scumreads, Sera being one of them.

TOWN
Magua
MoI
LLD
Stefan
Seraphim
malp
Shift
verydark
SCUM

Willing to lynch any of the bottom three, doing some thinking on Seraphim.

You are blatantly fencesitting on a Seraphim wagon, waiting for a chance to lynch him but not taking a stance until you get a chance to either A. Wagon him for an easy mislynch/bus (Not sure yet, more on this later) B. Get a chance to declare him town when the rest of town starts to do so.

Okay, so I can't vote with my townread voting bloc on one of my suspects? How do lynches happen then?

Second question has nothing to do with it. Voting blocs do not need to happen to get a lynch, just players deciding someone is scummy. Asking to join a voting bloc with two townies has obvious benefits for you if you're scum, which is what we are pushing on.

A. Get to assume more direct control of the lynch through influencing other members of the bloc
B. Get a "get out of wagon free card" as being in a voting bloc makes you a less likely lynch
C. Get a "get out of death after you push a mislynch free card" as you have an excuse for why you voted a player when they flip town

Also, do you see the word if? IF it's a mislynch. Not 'tomorrow is LYLO no matter what'.

The fact that you throw something out like that out there when trying to wagon someone is what is odd to me. Of course I can't expect you to just say "If you mislynch the guy I'm pushing it will be LyLo tomorrow". This is all in tone, which sadly you cannot really defend against, but there are other things here you can, and you haven't.

When did malp and verydark become suspects? Your entire post is centered on me.

Have thought a lot about who SK's scumbuddies might be but I'm too exhausted to ISO each and every one of them to find out for sure. Main suspects are SK, verydark, and malp.

Have been busy today, but again will do this sometime soon. For now I'm happy with just pushing one scum, I have plenty of time to find the rest.

Points in my case Sleepy refuted: 1 tiny sentence of no real importance.

Better luck next time.

[Luxury]

EBWOP:

Forgot to quote to quote the part where you said Magna was a joke vote, but didn't see the part about didn't see it as a joke vote as I made the case in ISO. I remember what post you're talking about though that makes it a joke.

Sorry, looks like I went full retard in this. This should read:

Forgot to quote the part where you said Magna was a joke vote, but didn't see the post that made it obviously a joke as I made the case in ISO. I remember what post you're talking about though, believe it was from Gamma.

[Luxury]

Prepost note: Looking back on my last few post I'm seeing a lot of typos/sentences not making sense, example:

It's hypocritical because you've asked for explanation on a lot of things,

yet until

you

recently

have explained next to nothing.

If this happens and you can't tell what I mean, please point it out and I'll clarify. I do a lot of editing to make my thoughts more clear but sometimes it ends up making it worse.
========================================================

How the hell was I uncommitted on Sera? I said I'm willing to lynch him, isn't that commitment? My most recent post about him is the first time I fencesat, and this happened AFTER your case post (expect definitive stance on Sera in a bit).

The fact that it was after my first post changes the fact that you're fencesitting how?

Oh, and you do realize I quoted that post as an example of how you were fencesitting, right? Which you admitted to? And I only brought up the fencesitting part in my last post? And you have yet to make a definite stance on Seraphim, which means no, you have not made a commitment. You will not make a commitment until you make your stance, which I'm waiting for hopefully after Sera posts a little bit more. "I'm willing to wagon him but I'm not sure on his alignment" is not a stance.

You say voting bloc has two townies. It's a three person voting bloc, actually. And how do you know they're townies? SCUMSLIP (sorry MoI)?

1. Didn't see the third person, looked just now and saw it was Magua. Just remembered LLD+Magna being in it
2. Hypothetical scenario is hypothetical, I highly doubt you'd be stupid enough to join your entire scumteam in a voting block, my guess is at least 2/3 of the people in the block are town if you're scum, though of course at least one has to be.
3. LLD+Magna are town reads, as stated in my first post on Shift.

[Luxury]

Kay, Seraphim is now officially null and I'd be against his lynch at this point.

There, that wasn't so hard was it? It's funny to note though this is the only Seraphim stance option you can choose without looking hella scummy.

He. Was. A. Scumread when I said I'd be willing to wagon him.

The thing is you make it clear he's a slight scumread but you weren't sure, and you're willing to wagon him, repeatedly. It feels like you're just waiting for a chance, and kept mentioning it in the hopes someone would take it.

I'm guessing point 1 is a typo... So I'll let you fix that before addressing it...

If by this, you mean:

1. Didn't see the third person, looked just now and saw it was Magua. Just remembered LLD+Magna being in it

Then no, this was not a typo unless I was wrong and the third person isn't Magua. I do see now how LLD mixed them up in that previous game though, I mixed them up in one of my posts that I can't remember at the moment. My point about you fencesitting on Sera, however, was definitely not a typo.

You dropped the hypocrisy argument, then?

No point in arguing a point that's already been concluded, perhaps hypocrisy was the wrong word as "ironic" would be a better fit. My point was already made.

And how can you be sure of anyone's alignment before a flip? Do you somehow magically

know

I'm scum? Nice misrep

Answering this with anything else would just be a huge waste of time, this is the last time I'm bothering arguing out this line of posting with Sleepy.

[Luxury]

verydark is town. Seraphim is scum. Luxury is meh, but him replacing SigmaExe isn't doing any favors as far as I'm concerned.

People to stop replacing out would be nice.

Since you've returned from V/LA, there's been one replacement out (Sigma for Luxury). This reads as scum who are annoyed that a lurking possible mislynch has gotten replaced by someone posting. Seraphim-scum means Luxury-town.

This is an example of good posting.

More on verydark/Seraphim coming very, very soon.

Including:
-Likelihood of Seraphim/SK team (Mid to high, fencesitting on Sera could be taken as reluctance to bus but ready to if necessary)
-Likelihood of verydark/SK team (Low low low)
-Likelihood of verydark/Seraphim team with SK town (Low)

[Luxury]

Just a quick note, Implosion has agreed to hydra with me. I'll be signing my posts from now on, and remember that he will be the primary poster for a week or so starting in a few days. Possibility I will have limited access on vacation but I doubt it.

Reads/cases delayed while we get our shit together.

-Shift

[Luxury]

Deadline's in two days. Fuck this.

Looks like Imp catching up will have to wait.

I take it Sleepyscum gets another day before the lynch then, not voting malp right now though as I doubt they are partners after a quick skim and Sleepy is my number one scumread. Verydark is a sore spot for me because the way he whiteknighted scummy town is similar to what I did in Mafia Invictus, but the way he does it comes off town as is #185, though that's easily fakeable. Possibly scum with SK, but not sure. Will take a stance soon, I don't like fencesitting. Seraphim is weird, and interactions with Sleepy can also be interpreted as distancing.

I am fine with lynches on Seraphim and Sleepy, and since it looks like Sleepy isn't happening today,

Unvote, Vote: Seraphim

-Shift

[Luxury]

Hey guys, unfortunately I've got to go to bed in 10 minutes and I still have to finish packing so no good posting from me. This is just a note that I won't be back until the 18th, as I fly out for vacation in 12 hours or so, I'll have limited access through my phone for a few days as I have to drive from Florida to New York but other than that I won't be able to do anything so for the most part it's up to Implosion.

It's possible I'll be able to use my phone after I get to New York but I wouldn't count on it.

-Shift

[Luxury]

Hi, I'm here. Shift's case on SK made sense to me. A lot of what SK's posted seems contrived. I read through some of his old games (it took me like 5 games to find a game where he was town... lol) and he does act similarly as town (he makes posts which also look contrived), which makes me less confident in calling him scum. Obviously since he claimed rolecop, if no one counterclaims him, he's real. If someone does counterclaim him... claim. Shift agrees with me right now that he's real.

Magna's first two posts read as scummy to me (they both looked strange, overcompensatory in a way). I'm having difficulty really reading anything else of his for alignment. Shift had him as a weak townread, I have him as somewhat scummy. His scumhunting/posting in general look genuine, but he's the kind of player who will look similarly in that respect as town and scum, and I don't see anything in particular that makes me strongly feel that he's town. From someone like magna, that in and of itself is probably enough to give me some suspicion.

I like verydark's posting in general. He comes off as genuine.

This hardly even qualifies as 1v1. If you were really a town rolecop with a guilty, you would've announced it in your first post, or you would've gone along with the massclaim to see if you were cc'ed first or not.

Erm. If SK is town, you are scum. How does this hardly qualify as a 1v1? How does SK's not saying he had a guilty until now (which he explained the reason of) make it not a 1v1?

Also, SK's 576 makes me inclined to believe him, because I think I know what question he asked and I was kind of confused about the same thing the last time I played tit for tat (for reference: i was the mafia backup rolecop. Open 260 i think). Still, we'll wait to see if there's a counterclaim.

I don't really have any strong opinions on stefan or LLD. Shift thinks stefan is town, so if I had to guess scum at this point, it would be magua/lld/magna.

-implosion

[Luxury]

Quick phone post, Sleepy's selfpreservation makes perfect sense as rolecop. Will leave the big posts to Implosion since I'm driving up the east coast.

Sleepy needs to out all of his reports before any other claims.

-Shift

[Luxury]

I don't see how you saying he's played terribly makes it hardly a 1v1. It's a 1v1. If he's town, you're scum. If you're town, he's scum. Implying that it is anything but a 1v1 is just weird.

SK only encouraged a massclaim by pushing you to claim first, which makes sense. He could have been trying to lock you in a claim, he could have just known you were scum and wanted you to claim first, or he might have wanted to see if you would claim backup jailkeeper. He might have wanted to do option two, then decided option one was better. Giving those two options and saying that any rolecop would do them is both a false dichotomy (because there are other options) and no true scotsman (because just because he didn't do either of those options it does not automatically mean he isn't a real rolecop).

-implosion

[Luxury]

I'M DENIGRATING HIS ABILITY TO PLAY AS SCUM WITHOUT BALD-FACED SAYING "SLEEPYKREW, YOU SUCK AS SCUM". DOES IT MAKE SENSE NOW?

Yes, though it neither helps anyone else find the scum nor convinces me that you are town.

Tell me, then, what you think his question was

, and how it made him suggest massclaim was good at the start of the Day (while pushing on me as scum) and bad after he got his answer. Because if it's something about "lulz Sleepykrew confused Jailer and Backup Jailer" his initial D3 post doesn't make any sense. He's already setting up for calling me scum. That is not the post of someone who is uncertain and is checking something with the mod.

So based on the bolded, you aren't reading what SK is posting. He

said

what his question was. Also: SK wasn't the first one to suggest a massclaim, and in every post where SK called massclaiming a good idea, he specifically pushed that he wanted you to claim first.

I'll let SK respond to the actual arguments against him. I really don't feel like speculating about SK's motives any more when I can just wait for SK to tell us his motives, especially since we haven't even seen who's going to counterclaim rolecop, or if there even will be a counterclaim.

-implosion

[Luxury]

EBWOP: Did you read my next sentence after the one you

quoted

bolded? I'm really curious.

Yes, did you read the next two lines after the two-line response to the thing i bolded? They apply.

[Luxury]

Why ask if I was reading what SK was posting when the *very next sentence* showed that I was?

No, it didn't. You said "if" - that implied that you didn't know SK's question.

Why continue this back and forth with me and then bow out at the end?

I really don't feel like speculating about SK's motives any more when I can just wait for SK to tell us his motives, especially since we haven't even seen who's going to counterclaim rolecop, or if there even will be a counterclaim.

-implosion

[Luxury]

Stop claiming until sleepykrew outs his report from night one.

Magna: it's difficult to elaborate, since it is mostly a vague feeling about the posts. The second line of your first post and the entirety of your second post just read as somewhat contrived. You're a good enough player to fake genuine scumhunting to a large extent, so it is more difficult to read you. I also have a tendency to get paranoid when reading good players. There are other things that can make someone town - not just genuine scumhunting, but genuine pro-town efforts in general to push, lead, etc. I just haven't seen anything in your iso that convinced me that you were town, that is, that i felt strongly would come from town over scum.

[Luxury]

(implosion, by the way)

[Luxury]

That last post of Magua's is pure coaching, and without a Daytalk for scum...

ITT LLD says what we were probably all thinking.

Magua: please provide an example of a game where a new player was "coy" with an investigative role claim. I've

never

seen or heard that, and it doesn't make sense.

pedit: maybe. Probably, in fact. But SK needs to out his n1 report.

-implosion

[Luxury]

There are hundreds of examples on EM where a new player doesn't cc a cop or tracker claim for fear of getting NK'ed. Both you and Shift are *well* aware of this.

Link to one, please. I've never seen that to my memory. The closest I've seen was a f11 newbie game where the scum claimed an unspecified power role, and neither me (doctor) nor the cop counterclaimed. I have NEVER seen what you are talking about to my memory.

-implosion

[Luxury]

Oh. EM. This is not EM. This is MS, lol. The people on here are COMPETENT.

-implosion

[Luxury]

Users browsing this forum: Lady Lambdadelta, Magua, Maxous, SleepyKrew, StefanB

CLAIM YOUR N1 REPORT, SLEEPYKREW. There's a good chance you're dying tonight if you're real and we lynch magua.

[Luxury]

I have personally seen newb-scum claim roles that aren't in an *open* setup (mipe in Cults of Darkness and Shadow).

The newb behavior on EM is exactly the same as on MS.

(If anything, people on EM learn the rules of lylo faster because they get more experience quicker.)

You aren't talking about scum screwing up a fakeclaim. You're talking about a town power role not counterclaiming when someone claims their role. Even if what you say about EM is true, it's still a completely different atmosphere (for example, you have 10 minutes rather than 10 days to say what you want to).

-implosion

[Luxury]

Also, I'm somewhat close to just voting magua. LLD is making sense.

-implosion

[Luxury]

Magna. Two people are voting for magua, and two people have indicated a lean towards magua as scum. How about you stop saying that this is obvious, and stop saying what you're going to do after SK is dead, and start trying to explain why it is or should be obvoius?

-implosion

[Luxury]

oh fucking hell