Open 329: Mayo Clinic D3: Town WINS!

[neil1113]

Wow, everything is happening so fast. A lot of pages, about a lot of nothing. Why does it always seem to happen that way here? Anywho, onto more pressing matters:

My Experience
My opinion on Vigs claiming

I have enough.
No. But before I comment any further, I'd like to have Izak respond to my questions towards him later in this post, and I'd like to get a more objective look at the plan before I speak. I don't like wasting words.

My response to Izak's post here. The two main points that I'll be addressing are:

we don't give a damn about your meta.

and

you being against a vig claim is an incredibly anti-town move.

Quote 1. Don't speak for the town. You're not the town, you're not confirmed. Don't act like it, it's deceitful. Meta is actually very important, like for instance you've played like scum this game. My first reaction is to vote you. However, you don't ever really play towards the town in the games I've seen, and in the games I've played with you. You play with VI tendencies, and therefore I can't vote you just off of the few points I have against you, considering that's how you play. Your VI meta saves you from being lynched in a lot of the games you're probably in.

Quote 2. Before you make such a bold statement (again, speaking on behalf of the town), please explain to me how this plan is so "incredibly town oriented" that voting against it would just be preposterous! Last time I checked when you made this post, it was just an opinion on a playing approach to take for this game, not a set in stone circle of life in which we all will abide to. So the fact that you can make such a hard-set statement both surprises me, and makes me suspicious of you.

BBmolla, I'll sum up my points against you and not make you read a whole bunch here.

Or we lynch you, and because you're scum, we're one step closer to achieving our victory condition.

Close-minded tunneling is anti-town. Stop it.

Hopefully your mafbros can come up with better reasons not to then you could.

This is called trapping, or in better words, appealing to fear. You've now intimidated everyone in this game that wants to oppose your "precious plan", by setting the trap to make it seem like the ONLY people that could possibly be opposed to this plan are scum, thus when town have issues, they become scared to say it.

I don't want ANY mishammers(meaning hammer without a claim) and you will be lynched if it happens.

I don't know if it's your motivation, or just your playing style that I really don't like. But threatening again "you will be lynched" is angering me. ATF(appeal to fear) is not a town motivated style of playing, which I called you out on once already so far just in this game and it's only been a day. You may be pushing the town right now, but you're definitely not leading it. You will be lynched if it happens? Great, so if it's town misvoting, we now have two lynches why? Because you said so? I don't know what motivation as scum you'd have to bring up your plan, I'd have to take another look at it before I say anything about it, but I will say this... you're not playing town-motivated so far. Be careful how you play. Appealing to fear does not help your case as town.

Glow, I really only have one thing to say to you, besides hi!

Glow, stop playing this game with that emotion. I know your emotional, I like that about you. But if it's going to make you flip out, and give us pages of non-sense that really doesn't further the game at all, stop. It's Anti-Town as well, and while I believe you to be town this game (due to my last game with you, and how you responded to that plan... sigh) you're not helping us at all. Us being town, scum, SK, Vigs, whatever. This game is not being furthered by this rediculous arguing. If you want, just lay out your vision once and for all against the plan. Let them lay out their vision overall for the plan, and we'll go from there. No need for debating opinions you know?

Another note to take into consideration: I don't like this Izak, Maru, and BBmolla triple team going on here band waggoning. It could be potentially dangerous in this game, and I'm pretty certain at least one of the three aren't playing town motivated. Which one, I can't narrow down yet. I'm pointing this out so that you three in particular can see the wrong that's happening here, and hopefully shift your views of one another so we don't have a triple team happening all game. It's how town losses and this is not a game we should lose.

Piggy, while her vote was predictable and senseless in my opinion, it was attempting to be original and unique. I really believe it's town motivated, even if it is misplaced. I implore you Piggy to take a look around at how the day is going, and do not be swayed with the waves of posts, but be aggressive in your views, and don't allow the sway to make your perceptions change.

Piggy, Glow, get your votes off of each other. Neither of you are playing terribly scum motivated.. at least right now. There's no reason to be pushing lynches against each other at the moment. And yes, I read your cases. Don't go there with me.

[neil1113]

Vitamin, you silly silly boy. A couple things happened within your last post that I'd like to make you aware of.

One, you've completely crushed my read on you. I had you, and BBmolla as the most likely scum suspects during this game. If I could just figure out what scum motivation the plan has, then I'd likely vote BBmolla as we speak. However my case against you, that I wasn't going to lay out yet, was that you attempted hard to look town, and when you got called out on it you "disappeared". It seemed a lot to me like oppurtunistic scum, looking town as hard as they can, turn around and pretend it was a joke (haha..ha) and then slide by on people's radars. I had you sliding by, and that is what my case rested on. Unfortunately, but very fortunate instead, you calling me out is not what Scum-Vitamin would've done in this case. I appreciate your comment "You feel like a competent scum player who doesn't like to go after easy targets." because it shows some respect for my playing style, but it also gives me insight to yours. You see me as a potential threat, rather it be from a town perspective and you're scared I'm scum, or maybe you're scum and you're scared I'm onto you? I'm going with the former rather then the latter, because as I stated before, I don't believe scum-you would've called me out like that, especially considering how "competent" you believe me to be. Therefore, you've changed my read on you completely, and I really hope you could follow all this. I don't see you as town, but you're not one of my scum reads I'd push for comfortably.

Two, you're case around me is for the fact that you tried to read between the lines of my responses, and found yourself lacking? You can't find where I've made this read, so it seems suspicious to you that I have it. Which is understandable, but here's a Mafia (and life lesson) for you. Sometimes when reading between the lines, if you see a blank spot, it's not specifically being hidden. It's just on another page. If you didn't follow me, I'll explain it to you and more detail

Spoiler: Here

See, I didn't lay out all my reads because there was no need to. I only posted what I found most significant in this game, and I only said that which I felt needed to be said. You assumed it was that one post that made me feel she was town, while in fact that post was just the confirmation, one of many, as to why I believe her to be town. My whole reason why I believe Piggy as town, if you'd like to read it follows:

1. She's 16. Hardly enough experience in life itself to come up with cunning plans in Mafia and luckily, she isn't perverted enough with this thing called life to have been stripped of the innocence in her thinking and playing style. It's amazing in my opinion, but also very... very telling if you're willing to read her. She is very ignorant to the game, still new in a lot of respects, while she's also desperately trying to learn so that she can compete with the best of them. It's very respectable in my opinion.

2. Again with the new factor, is she's only played one game here which I read through before I posted. Her meta there, if you like meta, matches here almost to a tee. It's actually quite creepy.

3. Her first post, was her asking questions about us, and our lives, what WE prefer to do. It shows she has an interest in people, and she's probably a very outgoing, and social person. A social butterfly, if you will. Anywho, the significance of this is that her first game as Mafia, wouldn't you suspect her to be more... guarded? Well, it's my first time so I'll be nervous, cautious, passive aggresive (which is part of my case against Glow, though I don't find Glow scum-motivated just yet), changing reads constantly... not confident enough to ask questions about us, while still playing the game with a clear head and a clear mind. So long story short, asking questions non-Mafia related shows a sign of clarity that I don't think she'd find in her first game as Mafia.

4. The fact that she seems to be buddying with Glowball, then explains herself to her shows a sign of respect. Almost of an experience sort. She sees Glow as another female, one more experienced in the game of Mafia then her, and someone she'd like to grow with to become better at this game. Which explains perfectly why, out of three posts, each one included Glow... directly or indirectly I can't remember.

BBmolla, thank you for your response. I only read so much, but I'll be sure to respond when I finish posting this! Also, I'm astonished to see you didn't play directly into what I thought you would've done, and voted me in a "are you serious? That's stupid! You're obviously scum too!" You seem like a defensive player, so I figured when I pushed you you'd be quick to OMGUS me. Guess these are two assumptions I've messed up already. Goodness gracious. But before I give the full response to your post, I'll have to read it. Please be patient, and give me a few minutes before saying anything else! Thanks.

[neil1113]

BBmolla, again thank you for your response. Please read mine carefully, before posting another rediculous photo in a sad attempt to discredit something I say.

Your first point, if I see correctly is:

I'm not voting glow because I'm mad that she won't go along with the plan. All I asked was why, and her response was,"Just cause." Do you really think her response seemed townie? Honestly.

Here's the problem with this quote. You start out with one point, change midway through and end with a completely different point. You start out stating that you're not voting her because you're mad she won't go along with the plan. However, the quote in question of mine that you've brought to the plate says nothing about your vote on her. It has to do with one of your responses to her response. Again to clarify I say, not your vote. Then, you suddenly change and it's not about your vote anymore. Now we're onto the subject of her response to your question (not your vote) being anti-town. To answer this, no I don't believe her response would benefit town more then scum, if that's what you're asking. However I also don't believe her post to necessarily be scum motivated, so much so that it would warrant a vote. I'll give you a link that you request later down this post, and you'll see why.

You then go on to give me an example of Jimmy and his poor unfortunate timing. You ask me a trapping question (leading question, if it makes you feel better to call it that instead), by asking

Do you really think this does not deserve a lynch?

Any Mafia player knows this question is not a fair question. Who is Jimmy? What's his playing style? What was he doing at the time of the post? Was it a quick turn and burn post? (Wasn't paying attention, read the last page and thought he knew..) There's multiple factors you'd have to account for, before making that assessment. Unless of course, you believe in the LAL policy (for those that aren't following, LAL is Lynch All Liars) in which case this would be a debate of opinion, and is not necessary for this game.

Unfortunately, you're following point is also voided.

I'm not saying this to scare people

I'm not scum. Does it make it true? Does it rest your suspicions concerning me? Does it ease your brain? Probably not. My playing style, my motivation behind my posts, that should be your assessment layout. Not because I said I was, or was not scum. In the same manner of speaking, because you say you're not saying anything to scare people, does not make it more or less true then when I say you are. Here's where the issue comes in. I've provided evidence in which you did ATF (again, appear to fear for those reading.) While you on the other hand, gave a leading and outlandish example to further some point that you weren't? I gave evidence of the game, you... well, you did not.

I honestly could care less if you like me, that's completely irrelevent to the game. I'm quite sad that I'm unpopular, but I think I'll live. Oh man it's like high school all over again ;-;

This whole sentence was ATE. (Appeal to Emotion.) Look it up, I don't need to further explain this.

The fact that you happened to read the entire game, but happened to not read the plan, is a really amazing feet. Seriously, well done. Considering the "triple team" or whatever was based entirely on that plan.

*sigh*. I apologize for not making it (painfully) clear for you that I read the plan. So here's for you. I read the plan. BUT...

But before I comment any further, I'd like to have Izak respond to my questions towards him later in this post, and I'd like to get a more objective look at the plan before I speak. I don't like wasting words.

as I stated in my first post. Like I said, I don't like wasting words. Nor do I appreciate having to repeat myself.

This is very relevent info. Link?

Gladly. Click here. Sorry for you having to post more then you'd like, I'm just responding to your points and covering any bases I missed. I'm usually very busy during the days, and nights would be the only time I ever have to post during this game, which is why I want to be purposeful with all that I say and post.






On an unrelated note:

now I am somewhat scared of you.

Why?

[neil1113]

Wow Neil... I almost feel.. awkward. That was like someone looking into my soul... and I don't really know what to say...
Though Glow is still my scummyist read out of everyone, so I'll keep my vote on her for now. I guess I'll meta her tomorrow when I've got some more time and see if she really is that defensive of a player.

Dang, I missed this. And to think... I prided myself on getting everything said without double posting. *sigh* There goes my pride.

Sorry if you feel awkward. I'll be more careful with what I say. But please don't feel awkward, isn't it everyone's greatest desire in the end to know and be known? There's not a thing more frustrating in my opinion, then to be misrepresented or misunderstood (which I can imagine you've had a fair share of), which is really just a case of not being known. In fact, while I make the claim it's our (humans) greatest desire, I'll also be willing to place an idea here, that the very essence and being of the thing known as "Love" really is manifested or made clear through the understanding and knowledge of one another. Too deep? Sorry. /end deep thinking here, back to Mafia!

Now with your last sentence, if you have your vote on someone and can be wrong, it'd be of the utmost important to fix it if you have the opportunity. Leaving a vote somewhere can in turn wind up very, very costly. Especially if something transpires and people jump on the wagon, while you realize you're wrong but before you can make any response the day has ended and you're stuck with your tail between your legs (it's happened to me plenty..). So I warn you, check out this post's link that I made in a response to BBmolla...

Gladly. Click here. Sorry for you having to post more then you'd like, I'm just responding to your points and covering any bases I missed. I'm usually very busy during the days, and nights would be the only time I ever have to post during this game, which is why I want to be purposeful with all that I say and post.

and make your own assessment? It won't take longer then 5 minutes through an ISO of Glow in that game to realize how defensive she is. And as a spoiler alert, she was town that game. I on the other hand, was scum.

[neil1113]

I'm not claiming. And no, you will not force my hand. I'm sorry, but the way this plan has been sheeped, by either lazy town saying "Oh hey, this game is started! Yeah, I'm in!" Or by scum saying "Man this plan better work..." either way, I'm not going to cooperate with this plan and give scum and easy victory. I apologize if this does not fit your plans, but how about we just rely on what we know (scum hunting) and not what we don't know? Scum know who's town and who's scum, all they don't know is who has what powerrole. If we give them that information, we give them more power to do as they please. Knowledge = Power, especially in this game. The only reason I've refused to really lay out the details as to how this will backfire, is because you all seem to set on the plan, that it would do the town more damage to give the scum and the sk ideas, then it would to try and convince everyone that this plan is faulty. So no, you will not have a claim from me.

[neil1113]

You want me to claim? Fine.

I am:

A man. Neil_1113 to be exact. I'm here to play Mafia, catch liars, and genuinely play the set up and prove that I can win, no matter what alignment I am.

Now here's the issue. I'm thinking like scum here, and to easily manipulate the plan, check this out.

So we have two vigs.

Two vigs go out, we tell them to shoot the same person. Scum know they are town, and so far I don't agree with nearly anyone's reads that have posted them. And for most of Day One we're going with little to no information for reads. So it's like starting all over again, and with two people playing with VI tendencies, and another just sheeping, out of a game of 12 people that's not very good odds. And then to think, this would be Day 2. So if we(scum) are smart, we'd kill someone and let the vig do his thing to a townie, while letting the town lynch Glow(a townie IMO). So by the start of Day 2, we'd have 9 people left, with little to no reads, most in which I believe are wrong anyway, and out of the 9 (assuming I'm still alive at this point) we have 1 anti-townie person, 1 sheep, and 1 person that just happens to play VI-like, 2 people that like to lead the town, both in wrong directions, and 3 that don't speak? What are you really going to do as town in this position? Try and restart the game this time to find reads? Wasting a whole day, and probably eliminating 3 townies while we're at it? If anything, while you keep attacking Glow for being anti-town, she's actually anti-plan, not anti-town by the way, you're being hypocritical because you're setting us up to have 3 people aligned with the town dead by the start of Day 2.

Now from here it's pretty much a toss up of WIFOM and luck as to what happens next. Could we get a scum read? Doubtful, considering who the town consists of currently and how we're playing together. Could we lynch another townie? This seems a lot more probable to me then the first. Then on top of that, we give the scum another chance to eliminate one of us, and our vigs both teaming to eliminate someone.. this could be scum or could be town. Either way, we start Day 3 with 6 people, and if the scum are smart they'd leave the two VI's and the sheep, so half of the town are incompetent to even hold us up, while having 2-3 possible scum left as the other town. Our only hope here is that we were able to eliminate a scum by the time we get here, because if not, we've officially lost already. If we do, by some slim chance and by the grace of God, we find ourselves eliminating scum Day 2 or Night 2, we still have 2 scum left with 4 people.

I'm pretty sure I'll be dead by now, in some way or another, because I don't play the game the way you want to, so at this point it'll be 3 incompetent town players, 1 townsman that may or may not even be active (if scum are smart, again, they'd leave the lurkers / inactive players). What type of town is that? I'm not confident enough in our ability as a town from what I've seen so far, to put my faith in this plan to be quite honest. This is why I'm not claiming. But don't be stupid / foolish and assume that because I'm not claiming, that I fit into a category you could classify my under. Don't assume I'm a doctor, or a vig, or scum, or the SK, based on rather or not I claim. You're setting yourself up for failure. And don't lynch your vigs either, because that changes the plan completely. With only one vig, we're basically screwed out of our night kills due to the Mafia Doc. We could only kill town without being blocked.

So remind me again what makes this (incredibly town) plan benefit us? We already have one claimed vig, and now we've put him in danger. The minute the chance comes, you better believe the scum will take him out. Then what? But by that point, I'll admit, we probably can turn ourselves out of that whole. Just please, for the love of God, do not let another person claim. We're ruining our chances slowly by doing that, by giving the Mafia information that they don't need to have.

Also, to answer your question from before, do I believe you're scum? I couldn't honestly say yes, though I don't believe you're playing pro-town... at least not as much as you can.

[neil1113]

So remind me again what makes this (incredibly town) plan benefit us? We already have one claimed vig, and now we've put him in danger. The minute the chance comes, you better believe the scum will take him out. Then what?

But by that point, I'll admit, we probably can turn ourselves out of that whole.

Just please, for the love of God, do not let another person claim. We're ruining our chances slowly by doing that, by giving the Mafia information that they don't need to have.

Also, to answer your question from before, do I believe you're scum? I couldn't honestly say yes, though I don't believe you're playing pro-town... at least not as much as you can.

I'm impossible to kill if we follow the plan. If I do get killed, we have a 50/50 scum lynch the next day. If we didn't follow the plan, I could have been uselessly killed tonight.

You didn't actually read the part of the post you quoted did you? I bolded it above in your quote for emphasis, that way even someone with as little of a brain as you can understand it. Even when you follow your "flawless, and perfect" plan, you can still die if/when scum eliminates our docs. Then what? That's the question I asked. Not, what happens if you die tonight. Why don't you take your head out of your ass so you can understand what I'm saying, instead of sniffing yourself and continuously telling yourself you smell good, despite the obvious stench that comes from your lack of knowledge.

We're not ruining chances.

You're ruining our chances by not undergoing the plan. This quite literally forces us to lynch you, because scum aren't going to kill you if you're being anti town or you could just be scum.

You keep saying "us." You don't speak for the town. You're not a leader. Get over yourself. It doesn't force the town to do anything. The only "force" that's trying to happen right now is you forcing those that are against the plan to follow it anyway. You're a hypocrite by nature, aren't you? When you grow a pair of balls, then you can correct a man. Until then, learn to be one.

We're leaving you out of the doc train. If you or glowball are the other vig, then congrats on gamethrowing.[/color]

Listen, and listen good. We are not throwing anything. We are PLAYING the game. You want to make a plan? Go for it. You want to make a plan that requires everyone to participate? Good. If they don't? Well then too bad. Most normal people would've stopped, and said alright well if they can't participate in this plan, then I guess we'll have to find another way. Instead what do you do? You turn the blame game on, and blame US for throwing the game? You're the one insulting and attacking those against YOUR plan. You're the one setting yourself up for failure when you know very well two people, which doubles the chances that the vig is among them, are against it. We are not throwing the game, and we are not hurting the town. You are by trying to pursue a plan in which requires everyone to participate in.

Your whole "flaw" in the plan is that we cannot scumhunt, and if that's the case THANK GOD we have the plan. Cause then we'd be lynching our vigs left and right.

No we wouldn't if you'd learn how to play pro-town.

You're ridiculous. Consider you either my lynch vote today or my vig shoot vote.

This post right here is the only reason I've insulted you. Is so that you can get it through your thick, uneducated skull that while anyone can throw insults around, you still wind up accomplishing nothing. At least Glow is trying, you're wasting your time, the town's time, and everyone elses time by continuously talking about a plan that will fail if you continue on pressing it. Two people at LEAST are against it, and the vig could be among them. Your plan failed. Already. Get over it.

[neil1113]

Cool personal attack bro.

Just a response. If you can't take it, don't dish it out. "Bro."

[neil1113]

It's very simple. Your plan requires everyone's participation. Especially certain peoples. Unfortunately for you, two people have already decided to sit out, and that's out of 6 or so that have even weighed in. 1/3rd of the people that have talked, are against it. You're plan has already failed. And with the chances of one of us being the vig that are against it, not realizing how many people have not even weighed in yet with the new development of how this game is going, you cannot proceed. Simple. Thus, let's get over ourselves and move on? I'll put my tail between my legs, you put your tail between yours, Glow will do the same... awkward picture... anywho, we'll all just move on. And since this plan can't, you can either rework your plan, or actually try and play Mafia with us, and together we can pursue lynching ACTUAL Mafia. If you really believe I'm Mafia, feel free to try your hand. If not though, let's work together instead of against each other, and since you, Glow, and the other girl (forgot her name) are all in the clear with me for the moment, we could get a strong hand out to pressure actual people and see what we're playing with.

Or, you could still try to pursue your plan and not believe me, and fail miserably. Your choice.

[neil1113]

Also, Neil am I basically in love with you... just thought you should know.

-as Marucha nplans to eliminate Neil-

-cough-
imeanwut?

So, I'm pretty sure you're scum.

P.Edit: Yep, pretty sure.

[neil1113]

Also might I add the irony in you using fear tactics to make me quit my plan?

Fear and facts are two very different things. If one of us are the vigs, you already stated yourself the plan is screwed. Therefore, by stating what you already said, I'm trying to intimidate you to quit your plan? Do you actually understand what you're saying? I'm not asking you to quit your plan, I'm asking you to play Mafia. You're plan is already screwed, or in very good potential to be finished. And if I suggest a plan that involves everyone, but not everyone goes along with it, the plan doesn't work. Because why? It involved EVERYONE. This isn't "fear tactics", this is "common sense." Fear would be for me to say wow, I'm totally going to lynch you if you don't follow me! Wait.. didn't you use this plenty of times before? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Oh wait, nevermind I forgot. You're a hypocrite.

[neil1113]

By neil's own admission, he is endangering our plan.

We lynch glowball. Neil is vig meat.

Problem solved.

I expected nothing less from you.

Unfortunately two problems.

1. You only have one vig. Me or Glow could very well be the other. Which means.. oh yeah, you're screwed.
2. I can guarantee several docs will be covering me tonight if they're smart.

[neil1113]

By neil's own admission, he is endangering our plan.

We lynch glowball. Neil is vig meat.

Problem solved.

Crap posted too quick. Also wanted to note, that because I'm against "your" plan, I should be vigged/lynched. That's not town-motivated, that's plan-motivated. And I've already proven that 1. The plan failed. 2. The plan will not work. 3. The plan can't work. 4. The plan isn't going to work.

Oh and 5. I'm adding this in because all lists are divisible by 5. (Points if you got this.)

Anyways Izak, while you stick to be a VI, try not to sheep too much alright? The plan's already failed, so do some scum hunting now.

[neil1113]

Okay, Glowball claims doctor.

Waiting on Neil.

I've already made my position clear on this. Don't be stupid.

[neil1113]

You don't really believe anyone listens to you do you? You haven't done anything this game, besides possibly misleading the town into thinking I'm a doctor with that last post. Is there a reason you'd like to be deceitful?

[neil1113]

Grey, this plan has already failed. Nobody else is going to claim. It's over. Get over yourself. We've already figured this out. Move on.

[neil1113]

Something I'm not quite understanding. If I'm scum, why would I be outspoken against the plan? Couldn't I just run along and sheep the docs?

[neil1113]

@neil: Same thing could be same about town. You're probably SK.

What do you mean same thing could be said about town? No it couldn't. As a townie, I wouldn't cooperate with a plan I disagreed with. And I've already laid out the reasons why.

[neil1113]

Well, I don't see what claiming would help at this current time given the circumstance, and I can't defend against "gut" feelings... so I guess your read will have to stay there until your "gut" changes.

[neil1113]

UNVOTE: glowball
VOTE: neil1113

On what grounds?

[neil1113]

UNVOTE: glowball
VOTE: neil1113

On what grounds?

UR OBVSCUM SHUDDUP

Says a VI and.. well.. you? Lol I told you I welcomed a case. To bad you'll be saddened by my flip. Though I'm fairly certain you're scum. But I'll prove that in a bit. Go ahead and post your "lol, scum calling me scum because I caught them, and now your doing the i'll post the case later crap. obvscum!!! im so cool so I use a lot of !!!! to prove my point!" Get it over with. Soon you'll be lynched, so either way go ahead and make your case on me now, or continue your nonsensical posting and accusations that cannot be proven nor dis-proven, considering they are non-existent.

[neil1113]

Neil1113 and glowball, could you guys please reconsider claiming? I know it's hard to ignore all the shit that has come your way (GreyICE, seriously, what the fuck?), but, if you ignore that, you have to acknowledge that it is now in all of the town's interest that you claim. We can argue about whether no claims is better than a full claim, but I think you have to agree that a full claim is better than a half-assed full claim. A 2 claimed vigs situation is really different from a 3 or 4 claimed vigs situation and we are going to have find out somehow which situation we're in (and it's not unlikely that scum already knows). I don't want the town to waste lynches or vigs on you when you guys could either help us confirm two players or find scum on Day 2, depending on what situation we're in.

I'm a

Doctor.

And I'm more then willing to prove it, if you guys seriously don't believe me. I honestly thought / think that Glow is a Vig. Therefore I'm pretty confident that one of BBMolla or Quaroth is against the town - oriented. I wouldn't be surprised if it's BBMolla and he came up with the plan so that he gave himself a position to hide behind. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if BBMolla is the SK. However, I believe when we pressure him or Quaroth, whichever is the SK, they'll admit to it and we can use them for our advantage. At least to eliminate scum. We could potentially have 3 kills a night if we do this.

Also, VOTE: GreyIce.

You're not helping the town, you're constantly on the offensive and aggressive side of things, and you came into the game trying to push this plan hard and aggressively attack anyone that stood in your way. After some quick Meta Indexing:

Newbie 1047 you were town here, and super aggressive, and scum won. Admittedly this through my read off, until I realized this was one of those off games for everyone. This truly was a pitiful game, so I couldn't even begin to attribute the loss to you.

but what REALLY did it for me was this:

Mini 1113. I challenge EVERYONE to read this game and compare it to his actions since he's replaced into this game. Someone please tell me we don't have an almost identical match (after Day One, obviously.) Super aggressive, not considerate, anyone that opposes him is either an idiot, or lynch bait... etc. This pretty much solidifies my idea that he's scum this game. He's in that mindset that he's gotten in the one game that he's played Scum in. I've read two others:

Mini 1105. Here's some more compare and contrast. In this game he replaces in with a town mindset. Look at how he starts off: "Okay, let's use logic and I'll make some cases and prove it to you. Oh and welcome everyone! This should be a fun game!" (Paraphrased obviously.) See how extremely different that is for this game? Probably because he has two different mindsets. One from scum (the above game proves that) and one from town (this game quoted proves that.) He's playing to a Meta, because even the best players have a hard time fighting their own mindset.

Newbie 1047 Again he replaces in, and again look at the tone! It's the same exact one from Mini 1105, quoted above, and he's in the exact same mindset! A town-motivated, helpful to the town, position. Not his overly-aggressive, be so offensive so that he doesn't have to be defensive, scum-driven mindset.

I must say I admire how I've gone completely blind to this when he first replaced in. He got on my nerves, so I just chucked it off and attributed it to newness or personality. However as I've proven above, two of those games show his "personality" when he's in a town mindset. The game above (one of the first I quoted) Mini 1113, shows the mindset he gets in when he's scum. Which unfortunately for him, matches this game perfectly. Care to try and get me mis-lynched now scum?

[neil1113]

Ok, so how about this:

We lynch neil1113.

BBmolla shoots glowball
Quaroath shoots glowball
(in case of Mafia Doc)

As decided by the dice in the above post, docs number one and nine, in the order they appear on the playerlist, each protect a vig.

glowball protects BBmolla
whispersilk protects Quaroath

Mega (just happened to be next on the list) protects BBmolla OR Quaroath (for WIFOM, doesn't tell us until tomorrow)

GreyICE protects PiggyGal15
PiggyGal15 protects izakthegoomba
izakthegoomba protects VitaminR
VitaminR protects Thomith
Thomith protects Maruchan
Maruchan protects GreyICE

Here's what I see wrong with this plan: 1. Obviously, lynching me and killing Glow is in no way beneficial to the town? You won't get any information except that we're both town, and we're both still against the plan. We should actually scum hunt, and find someone to lynch that way. 2. I don't like the idea of Mega not telling us till tomorrow. Because then, he can be Scum and say he chose to protect whoever stays alive. And he gets a free pass, while potentially giving scum a free shot at our Vigs. 3. While I love the Doc train going on, I believe we should stick 2 docs to each vig. If we're going to let someone choose, it should be over our Docs, not our Vigs. They are a lot less valuable at the moment to lose then if we lost a Vig. 4. GreyICE is scum. So he's not going to be protecting anyone, nor should anyone be protecting him.

P.Edit: Yep, great defense Grey. Thanks for telling us which of the two were your scum mates (BBMolla.) I'll be sure to pursue a lynch towards him after you.

[neil1113]

Quaroath is scum, the sk doesn't claim vig you nitwit.

And to address this, SK claim amongst the Vigs would be perfect. SK can't be killed, and Vig's won't be lynched. It's almost the perfect hiding spot. If I'm wrong about you, I'm pretty sure the SK would be more likely to hide among the Vigs then scum. Because once the night kills begin and the Vigs try to kill themselves (like someone recommended they do if there are more than two vig claims... ugh) the scum would die instantly despite the one Mafia Roleblocker. Set two people to kill one person, and see the flip. If they are a vig, then we have a 50/50 chance to lynch the right suspect the following day. At least, I think that's how that plan went. However I do think you're a foolish scum player, and a bad one at that (as proven by your... giggle giggle... meta) so I wouldn't be surprised if you'd think of doing something like hiding among the Vigs.

[neil1113]

1047 was a bad game, don't meta from it as everyones game seemed to be off and it lasted 6 game days in a newbie, not the best first game you could have.

I can understand that. It's not the game I was focused on. It's how he started the game when he replaced in. The "leaked" mindset that he was in, being town, and how extreme the difference is when his mindset is scum, like in this game.

[neil1113]

He does seem more aggressive as town but to be fair glow has been a windup merchant the whole game, although IGMEOY grey however i am not voting just based on meta.

Yes and her Meta can back that up as well. I like how we just simply discredit Meta now, foolishly being ignorant to the judgement sentence that it really is. I've caught many the scum by doing it. And it's not the "Oh my gosh, he just got aggressive!" fault that I'm calling out, it's the "Look, he's been aggressive the whole game, not just on certain days, and it's his playing style. When else has he played like this? Oh yeah, as scum."

[neil1113]

I didn't say I don't like your plan, just that we should work out some faults in it. The game started 8/25 and according to the rules we have a 2 week deadline from there. So 9/8 is the rough deadline, which gives us one week and a day to scum hunt. Which is still sufficient time in my opinion. Instead of planning on who we're going to lynch and vig, I can see this going two ways. We can do what I would feel most comfortable with, and apply pressure to Grey to potentially see him lynched, or we could put some pressure on those that aren't too active and see if we can't get them into this game? We might even stumble along something there. Either way, I don't like this "Okay plan is done now, what to do?" waiting period.

As far as the plan is concerned, I'd currently like to see: (This is dependent on Glow being a Vig.)

Day One.
Lynch: One of the two claimed Vigs
Vig: Two vigs on GreyICE (I have my sneaking suspicions, and I don't believe he'd be that bold and be the SK. So I'm pretty sure he's scum.)

Day Two.

Lynch and Vig Suspects: ? This would really be dependent on how Night One goes. If Grey does indeed flip Mafia, and BBMolla is still around, and we killed Quaroth or Glow and they flipped Town, then I'd like to see BBMolla lynched as the lying party in the Vig Circles.

Of course this is all reliant on Glow being a Vig, which I'm pretty confident she is. If not, I'll reconsider the plan if we even get to that crossroad.

[neil1113]

I don't have the time right now, but please see you're being played by a fault, WIFOM case. I'll disprove it later when I have the time, until then I hope one of you will see for yourself the fault in it, and come to your senses. I've already said I'm willing to prove I'm a doctor, and I'm definitely not with the Mafia team. Think about this for a minute. I'll come back later and make the case. Also, if you see the fault, please don't post it. Because I don't want him claiming "Oh Neil just got lucky because someone pointed it out before him and he's just riding off of it." I want to make the point. If you see it, unvote but don't post it. Thanks.

[neil1113]

I never really considered the Mafia Doc as well. Crap. Still, I'll comment on the case when I can later. But seriously, take a close look at the case people. Don't mislynch here. I promise you, my flip will disappoint you.

[neil1113]

Oh wait, am I hammered? Damn nevermind, this will be my last post then. Fuck! I will say, if you're scum, that was an awesome push for a mislynch Grey. I'll have tons of respect for you after this game. If you're town, you're seriously off with your reads and when the Mod comes on, you'll see. Hopefully you'll get into this game with my flip, and be able to lead the town the way I know you can. Either way, fuck. I dislike getting mislynched without even being able to defend myself. Luckily we have other people that have the same ability as me, so we're not losing too much. So I'm not too mad. But dang. Go get 'em town.

Mod: Does this count as a Blah post? If it's against the rules, I apologize.

[neil1113]

Ugh. I'm not scum. End of story. Just finish this, lynch me and get it over with. I'm getting tired of this now. I've come back on, you think I'm dumb enough to try a fake post, and don't even give me the credit to think I was honest, and nobody has still saw the flaw in his logic? Alright I'm done. I'm not scum, I'm a doctor. Lynch me, and see for yourself. I have no desire to be a part of this town anymore if that's seriously what little respect you give me. Goodbye.

[neil1113]

What if the town had 3 vigs?

[neil1113]

I'm the

Serial Killer.

I'm not Mafia aligned, so I never lied about that. I never directly denied being the SK, and nobody ever questioned me as though I was. So I had no reason to lie. I've tried to play townie for long, but Grey's case gave me a headache. I admit the push on Grey was weak... but oh well. The town had no other thing to go on, so I decided to push.

Anywho, it's relevant because I could easily benefit the town at least for a day or two. Having another vig would be better then just flat out killing me off, don't you think? And on top of that, you don't have to waste any doctors on me because I'm not killable at night.

[neil1113]

Die.

You'd rather me die, then be useful to the town? THAT seems Anti-Town to me?

[neil1113]

I don't know, we could make you shoot certain people on threat of death and lynch you when all scum are dead or lylo (say 4 town 2 scum 1 sk kind of thing not 3 scum 1 sk 3 town lylo)
UNVOTE: for now.

I was thinking with the plan, how you had one doctor "randomly select" out of like 3 viable options, who they wanted to protect. I figured you could give me options as to who to shoot, and I'd choose (or randomly choose, whichever suits the town better) who to kill, that way the Mafia couldn't stop all of my kills and make me pointless.

BUT, make no mistake about it, Mafia would definitely want me lynched right now. Which makes me uneasy about Grey.

[neil1113]

Die.

You'd rather me die, then be useful to the town? THAT seems Anti-Town to me?

Oh ha ha like you're really the sk.

Bump did the same thing last game.

Die scum die.

Seriously. You're going to WIFOM this? You're more worried about WIFOM, then you are about the fruitfullness of the town, and THAT is not a town mindset. I'm still fairly certain you're scum. If you'd like, this CAN be proven if you want to waste a night to prove it. Send both your vigs on me, and see for yourself that I can't be killed.

[neil1113]

Die.

You'd rather me die, then be useful to the town? THAT seems Anti-Town to me?

Oh ha ha like you're really the sk.

Bump did the same thing last game.

Die scum die.

Seriously. You're going to WIFOM this? You're more worried about WIFOM, then you are about the fruitfullness of the town, and THAT is not a town mindset. I'm still fairly certain you're scum. If you'd like, this CAN be proven if you want to waste a night to prove it. Send both your vigs on me, and see for yourself that I can't be killed.

[neil1113]

WIFOM Alert:

Why would I be fake claiming Mafia, and call that out? Then, I'd be directing the Mafia Kills every night to wherever YOU guys want them, and if that's not giving up as the Mafia team I don't know what is. And with two other partners, I wouldn't have just given up like that. If I am Mafia, that means I'm volunteering to give up our kills and if I don't, you can lynch me.

However, with the idea that one kill can be blocked by a Doctor (Mafia Doc), and you probably wouldn't trust me to kill whoever I thought was scummy, since like someone pointed out ever so wisely, I could give a crap about you as town, you need to be dead to me as much as scum does, it'd be better for you guys to keep me around and vig with the 1st vig, that way the kill goes through, while letting the 2nd vig choose a target, that way you're sure it's a townie choosing and not "potential scum."

Either way you look at this, I can't be Mafia. If I am, I'm either screwing myself over and getting killed tomorrow (which is pointless in my opinion) or I'm forfeiting my Mafia team up to you guys. But this is also easily proven if you all would like to send your two vigs on me. You were going to lynch me today anyway, and then vig someone else... why not lynch your vig target and try to vig me, your lynch target, if you don't believe me? You're not specifically wasting a night now, and you're confirming me to be who I said I am. While at the same time, I'll vig between a few choices you guys give me (if you give me one, the Mafia Doc will step in and I'll be screwed...) to also confirm that I'm teaming with you.

[neil1113]

Listen, you can PROVE I'm an SK like I said above, by killing me tonight. You're not reading anything I'm saying. You've tunneled on me as scum, and refuse to believe anything else. That's not a pro-town mindset! If I'm lying, I'm dead tonight. And then what do I have? I didn't waste any of your times, you'd still be voting on the same people as before (except rotating whoever you want to vig would be lynched, and then I'd be vigged instead of lynched)... I don't see what you're complaining about. Oh wait, I do. I HAVE to be lynched in order for you and your two buddies to win. So you'd much rather me lynched, because vigging me wouldn't work because you know I'm the SK and I won't die. Nevermind, continue on sir.

[neil1113]

I'm not using the shots that should be ending a lurker like whispersilk on you. I'll use a lynch on you because by your OWN CLAIM that needs to happen unless the town wants to lose.

If I'm Mafia, I'm dead rather you lynch or vig me. If I'm SK, I've already volunteered to help the town. Why turn down the extra help, unless you really don't care about the town victory? Lynching or Vigging, it's still a death to "a lurker like whispersilk" so what's the difference? At least I hope you're admitting now that I'm the SK, so we can kill you and your other two buddies, the town can kill me, and then they get the win... Sounds bad, but at least YOU'RE not winning.

[neil1113]

You know, I had a response written up, but then I realized I'm responding to someone who asked why any townie would want to lynch someone if they thought that the player had a win condition that PREVENTED THE TOWN FROM WINNING.

Exactly. You can't respond, scum. Keep twisting my words to make it seem like that. Good try. You're so anti-town it's not even funny..

[neil1113]

Neil, I understand the strategy, I really do. You drag the other player into a 1v1 and then both of you coming out looking more scummy, which is a net win if you're already up shit creek since hey, maybe the town will make a last second dive for the idiot ball. And you want me in that 1v1.

But Neil, your entire premise is that lynching the Serial Killer is antitown.

You can't play that game if your first move is to checkmate your own king.

Lol the points already been made. No strategy. Others see it, you don't. That's not my fault. Fortunately, you're not town, so it doesn't matter what you think. But I still care, I really do. <3

[neil1113]

We have two confirmed vigs, we do NOT need a third shot, and the mafia have a lot to gain out of claiming serial killer - retards not lynching them.

We kill him. Today.

"SK THROWS HIMSELF OUT THERE TO TRY AND TAKE CONTROL OF THE TOWN WHY?"

What part of my posts seem like I'm trying to control the town?

The emphasis would be on need, not "not". You're right, nobody needs anything really during this game. However unless you're incredibly stupid, you can't claim a third vigilante wouldn't help?

Then again you must be stupid, because of the last part. You're purposely ignoring my proposed plan... why? "and the mafia have a lot to gain out of claiming serial killer - retards not lynching them." So vig me, if I'm Mafia I die. If not, you have a 3rd Vigilante, proven to be the SK. You're problem isn't with me claiming I'm an SK, it's the fact that you're scum and I can't die any other way except through being lynched. I could easily hit you or one of your teammates, and with an extra kill you have to worry about, it's almost like you're being screwed out of a win. So I can see and understand your frustration.

"NEIL IS OBVMAFIA JEESSSSSSUUUSSSSSSS"

Then I die tonight when the town vigs me, what's your issue? I'm dead either way, you're just switching the order of your vig and lynch suspects?

Guys, can you seriously believe Grey isn't scum from this? Like honestly? After stating several times that if I'm fake claiming, you guys could just vig me to die tonight and lynch your vig suspect instead, that way I'd STILL BE DEAD either way if I'm Mafia, he still has his panties riding up his crack about me not being lynched. Why do you guys really think that is? Town motivated paranoia, or scum motivated knowledge?

[neil1113]

FUCKING HELL GREY, NEIL CAN BENEFIT TOWN, IF HE IS SCUM WE GET TO DIRECT THE MAFIAS KILL, IF HE IS SK WE DIRECT HIS KILL, IF HIS KILL DOESNT GO THROUGH WE LYNCH HIM IMMEDIATELY, IT IS LIKE GETTING A 3RD SHOT AND I SEE NO TOWN MOTIVATION FOR TURNING IT DOWN
VOTE: GREY

How will lynching him tomorrow rather than today benefit the town?

I thought the reason we had vigs double up in this setup is the mafia doctor can ensure the kill doesn't go through.

What's the advantage to having an SK so the vigs can... what? Triple up?

There's so fucking much advantage to being lynched on day 2 rather than day 1 for any member of the mafia. The chances of a mislynch on day 1 are MUCH higher.

You're purposely ignoring the fact that if I'm Mafia, and you guys use the night to vig me instead of lynching me, I'm STILL DEAD. It doesn't register to you because you know I'm the SK, because you're Mafia.

And the purpose of having an SK is to give the scum a 2nd kill to worry about, as well as get more information from the nights. Are you serious, was that a serious question?

VOTE: GreyICE.

[neil1113]

We can direct his kill, giving us a 3rd vig why the hell don't you want that? Oh i know why because you are scummy scummy scum scum.
Lynch. Grey. Today.
We direct his kill, if it doesn't go through or someone else dies he dies that day after we structure the plan for the night, at lylo he dies, no exception.
we can use him to confirm a kill by having a 3rd vig shot on someone, so he benefits town greatly, plus we dont need to pretect him as if he is a SK he is nightkill immune and if he is scum he is unlikely to die unless the real SK kills him.

Or like I was saying, if you guys don't believe me, kill me tonight. If I'm Mafia, I'm dead. If I'm the SK, it confirms it, and I won't die. I'd much rather that option, because if a Mafia Doc blocks my kill one night, especially this night, I don't want anyone jumping the guns and claiming "OH MY GOSH! HE'S TOTALLY MAFIA! THAT LIAR DIDNT KILL WHO WE WANTED! LYNCH HIM NOWS!"

While my opinion might not matter, you must also understand my goal is similar to yours in the sense that I'm looking to kill the Mafia as much as you guys are. The difference, I wouldn't mind some of you dying along the way...

And Grey, you continuously biased your own opinion as though it's the only option. Stop leading others, and start opening your eyes to what's in front of you. Or just get lynched, scum.

[neil1113]

Just answer my questions to yourself then.

The mafia doctor can prevent one kill. Not two. What's the advantage to having a third kill?

Now, what's the odds that scum would see the SK claim as a way to live one more day?

Lynches on day 2 have better odds of hitting scum than lynches on day 1. Neil trading a day 1 lynch for a day 2 lynch is pretty hax for a soon-to-be-dead scum team member.

He was at L-2 when he pulled that amazing 'oh golly gee I was hammered' stunt, his chances of survival were 'claim serial killer.' It's pro-mafia to claim serial killer.

And he wants us to use our shots to verify this? Why? An SK is the only scum in the entire game who CANNOT be killed by two vig shots. Even if he were the SK, I'd rather try and hit mafia scum, because we HAVE to lynch him, period.

As for day 1 SK lynches being pro-town: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17846

Scum really felt the painful lack of velocity from losing the extra shot.

Quilford, if he asked you honest and not leading questions, they'd be the following:

The mafia doctor can prevent one kill, so we double up to make sure the kill goes through. That's 1 kill per night we'll have until the Mafia Doc is dead. So what would be the advantage of having another kill per night? (Stupid question, but that's what he's asking.)

Out of all that he spewed about Mafia wanting to false claim SK so that they can live one more day, the question here would be, why would they offer themselves up as Vig Bait along the way? Wouldn't they just die tonight anyway, and thus defeat the whole purpose for trying to live another day? This whole point is null and void, because I'm not just trying to live another day. If I'm Mafia, I'm dead tonight either way. (But he conveniently ignores this.)

Then he gave an example where after lynching the SK, town won. Have I ever claimed if you guys lynch me, you've lost this game after my claim of SK? No. I've simply said I can help you guys win, that's it. Then he threw in the "scum felt the loss of the extra shot" except he's failed to mention how me, and Mafia, do not have the same win condition. I'm not "on their team", I'm looking to kill them, and they (as you can see in Grey) are definitely pushing to have me lynched.

[neil1113]

A scum is a scum is a scum.

VOTE: neil1113

So you'd rather just eliminate me here, instead of using me for the benefit of the town? And that's pro-town playing in your opinion?

[neil1113]

OKay, I thought about this and yes people CAN direct vig shots, but GreyICE has a point and I am siding with him. Neil needs death today.

If Neil is in fact fake claiming scum and we just trust him until lylo, that may be sooner than you think. This is a numbers game for scum they are trying to overpower us he is 1 extra body count and lynch vote for them. If he is SK he is one more threat eliminated, one more anti town voice silenced.

You're worry is about fake claiming. You're ignoring me Glow, and it hurts. I told you, me being the SK will be proven tonight. Vig me. You're not wasting a day, because you're going to lynch me and vig another target. So instead, switch the targets around. Lynch them and Vig me. If I'm fake claiming, I'm dead either way. If I'm not, you can use me as confirmed SK to your advantage? What's the issue there if I'm fake claiming again?

[neil1113]

A scum is a scum is a scum.

VOTE: neil1113

So you'd rather just eliminate me here, instead of using me for the benefit of the town? And that's pro-town playing in your opinion?

I don't see how you're any benefit.


Izak's probably also scum guys. (p4)

You're right. Another kill for the town per night is definitely no benefit...

[neil1113]

Think about it like this:
We have 6 Doctor
2 Vigs

1 SK
3 Mafia Aligned(1 Doc)

To prove that Neil is the Serial Killer we would have to have both of our vigs target him, and we would need to direct his shot.

Now, if Neil is fake claiming scum he already knows that if BOTH the vigs target him he sees death so the directed shot probably won't happen. Yes, we would vig scum at night if we followed through with testing, but letting him slide by into the night phase means we probably mislynch today which is what all of you are virtually opting for by trusting him- a mislynch.

If Neil is the serial killer then both vigs target him we forfeit our vig abilities because we waste them on testing Neil, while we direct his shot and hope that he listens. If he does listen, great but he still has his own win condition and a VOTE everyday he is alive, he could come in to hammer and play against us anytime he chooses to. Neil has nothing left to lose or gain if he really is the Serial Killer- he's outed himself.

If we do NOT test Neil at all, we are just stupidly accepting his claim then he really gets a free pass and if he is fake claiming scum we are setting ourselves up for a super fail down the line because as I said before he is 1 more body and voice that is against the town.

Really think about it... you want to let Neil slide, trust him, probably mislynch today, and Neil truly believe that he has NOTHING to gain from this?! At the very least he could just be toying with us and like I said if he is the serial killer he has nothing to lose or gain. He knows he will catch death eventually, the fact that he is even begging town for life knowing that signals to me that he is concerned with the numbers which is what scum care about.

No no no no NO! You're ALREADY going to vig someone tonight. You're ALREADY going to lynch someone tonight. Changing the order of that does NOTHING, unless I'm the SK. Then, you have a proven SK to help you with your kills. Simple. Don't complicate things. I'm not forcing you to mislynch, because who you choose to lynch will be who you're choosing to Vig. So either way they are going to die. You're simply switching the order. And if I'm fake claiming, I'm dead anyway. If I'm not, then you have an SK to help you with your kills until you kill me. Simple. Don't overthink or complicate anything. Seriously guys.

Grey is scum, and Glow you're either scum or you're playing right into his web. If you guys seriously opt to lynching me instead of using me for your benefit, you're stupider then I thought and deserve to lose this game. And I'll sit back from the grave and watch Grey and his team run to victory, all over your stupidity and horrible decisions.

[neil1113]

Think about it: We didn't go into claiming thinking we'd have an SK and you guys still made a plan to win, right?! So play like nothing has changed EXCEPT we FOR SURE have a pro-town lynch instead of a mislynch.

So again, you'd rather go a safe route eliminating the possibility of someone helping, instead of being pro-town and using whatever sources you can to your advantage?

Forget this.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Neil_1113

I have no desire to help any of you out anymore.

[neil1113]

btw, don't show sympathy for his self vote. He has done it before, just like his "I thought I was hammered post"

Wow. Thanks.

[neil1113]

Someone hammer me please, so I can get done with this game.

[neil1113]

The arguement is i see no pro-town motivation for turning down a third kill that the town direct, but it is worthless now as the scum have stopped neil from being our third vig so to speak.
quil grey and glow are now my top 3 suspects.

@neil dont just give up, as it is probably the 3 scum being the most mouthy about you helping town.

Don't be stuck on stupid. They wouldn't be so extremely obvious. Grey is definitely scum, Glow is Glow... </3 and Quil is never good scum. So if he's scum, you'll know without a doubt. Just give it a couple days, ask him questions, and see for yourself. If you're not fairly certain, then he's probably not scum.

I wouldn't be surprised if the scum team consisted of GreyICE, BBMolla, and if I had to take a wild guess, it'd be Piggygirl.

Also, the reason for those wondering that I pushed so hard in my posts with a soft-claiming Vig attitude, was because if the plan was to go through, I'd be the first one to claim Vig as a false claim. If you were wondering.

[neil1113]

BB is confirmed vig bro, he isn't scum unless final vig is being silent for no good reason.

Failed. I meant Maruchan.

[neil1113]

I still prefer randomness. We're never going to prevent a scum kill that way, and if Neil isn't the SK (likely) then we're looking at 2-3 dead town tomorrow.

That's not where I want to be.

Let doctors protect as they wish

Put your money where your mouth is and vig me Icey boy. I dare you. Or you and your friends try and kill me at night, I promise I can kill you and your two buddies before you could ever touch me. Remember this. You're lucky we have stupid town, otherwise you'd be gone and lynched.

[neil1113]

Also, for those unvoting, don't keep me around. I'm not helping you anyways. I'm fed up with this pathetic waste of a town, I have no desire to help. So don't unvote, vote me and get me out of this forsaken game. Please?

But note: I love all of you. Just not the current town that's playing like crap. That's all.

[neil1113]

I'm never going to die am I? Ugh.

Also, I'm in love with the idea that if I flip SK, GreyICE gets vigged. In fact, I'm so in love with that and so confident that he's scum, that I would be willing to self-hammer. Only to find out my vote is already on me. Darn. :/

[neil1113]

XD @ neil

<3

Every time I re-read that post I lol again.

Neil will be missed

I kinda gave up on this game when Grey replaced in. </3

[neil1113]

Like I said... gave up.

[neil1113]

Still. Not. Dead. :/

And oh hell no. If I flip SK, Grey dies. Don't let Grey whimper his way out. He's scum, and if you've got a head on your shoulder, you know this. Grey's flip would indefinitely be the most revealing in my opinion, and I'm not even town. Grey, you made the bet, you keep it. Let the vigs vig you, don't back out now. You were so confident that I'm scum, I DARE you to put your ass on the line. I'll love every minute that I see it vigged.

[neil1113]

Both vigs target Grey. Make everyone happy. <3

[neil1113]

Reducing the pool by 1. Next day, scummiest doc in the pool is lynched, and night 2 pool is reduced to 5. If vigs don't hit scum for a second night, then two more docs are taken from the pool. Leaving 3. All the docs out of the pool then protect the vigs, and day 3 one of the remaining 3 docs in the pool is lynched. If that lynchee is town, then both remaining docs in the pool are confirmed scum. If they lynch a scum, the one remaining doc is scum, the other is town, and I guess the vigs can either kill both, or choose the scummiest and even then, if they pick wrong, the last scum can be lynched day 4. All that remains is for all the confirmed docs to remain protecting the vigs and not themselves, and the then the vigs start shooting, scummiest first. They will hit the scum doc.

I hate to reign on your parade, but what happens if Night 1, the Scum Doc decides to protect where their partner was forced to pretend to be a Doc, thus "proving" a Goon is a Doc?

[neil1113]

We'll never knew who on earth Neil is, because everyone refuses to kill him. Despite his begging's. You guys aren't just stupid, but mean, cruel, and unusually slow to him! He just wants to go home.. and eat... ugh!

[neil1113]

Personally my only chances in my opinion were if I tried to convince the town that I had town motivations, and let me run with them. Then when I kill, rather it be scum or town I'm killing it'd play to my win condition... And I figured if I could just last for awhile, maybe things would turn for the best? I really didn't see much of a chance with winning this game from the get-go when I started the set up. Then when all the claiming happened, I knew for a fact either way I was screwed. This is twice now that claiming has left my hand unwinnable. GRR!