Open 337: Twin Trap (Game Over)

[neil1113]

/confirmed

[neil1113]

@bv310 I would be happy with a Malpasco or Isa lynch today. Preferably Isa.

This is a sad, sad post.

And Collyer is at L-2? #whatdidImiss?

[neil1113]

I also propose a soft claim of if you are town or mafia. I will start.

I claim TOWN.

I claim Serial Killer.

... wait.

[neil1113]

Friendship isn't a realistic goal in Mafia. Outside the game, sure. I'd love to be friends with everyone, I'm just a friendly guy... usually. However, during Mafia, it'd be to scum-satisfaction to buddy up to town, so that when it comes down to it... "nah, you couldn't be scum... you're a good guy!"

[neil1113]

It's not that you're slightly annoying, I'm fine with that. It's the fact that you seem to be actively trying to avoid real conversation in favour of something that is inherently anti-town. If we keep you around, you're likely to continue this distracting play, and are going to lead to the Town's loss.

This is not a fair case to be made at all. If anything, it's trapping play. The problem with trying to trap someone like you are, is that it could be town slipping up, and thus you find yourself removing the trap and finding nothing but Vanilla Townie or worse... a Town Powerrole. I see this happen a lot. While RVS should not be ignored, it shouldn't EVER be the basis for a wagon. Not RVS alone.

And your statement is definitely untrue. Unfortunately for me, the position of proof isn't mine. So if you care to elaborate, please prove your point that "if we keep him around, he's likely to continue this distracting play." And then I'll more then gladly prove in many, MANY games people starting off JUST LIKE HIM, only to become very good town players after the RVS stage / Day 1.

[neil1113]

It's not that you're slightly annoying, I'm fine with that. It's the fact that you seem to be actively trying to avoid real conversation in favour of something that is inherently anti-town. If we keep you around, you're likely to continue this distracting play, and are going to lead to the Town's loss.

This is not a fair case to be made at all. If anything, it's trapping play. The problem with trying to trap someone like you are, is that it could be town slipping up, and thus you find yourself removing the trap and finding nothing but Vanilla Townie or worse... a Town Powerrole. I see this happen a lot. While RVS should not be ignored, it shouldn't EVER be the basis for a wagon. Not RVS alone.

And your statement is definitely untrue. Unfortunately for me, the position of proof isn't mine. So if you care to elaborate, please prove your point that "if we keep him around, he's likely to continue this distracting play." And then I'll more then gladly prove in many, MANY games people starting off JUST LIKE HIM, only to become very good town players after the RVS stage / Day 1.

This is bad, for a number of reasons. It is textbook scum play.

vote: neil1113

Are you kidding me? Most town-motivated people when accused, defend themselves. You "OMGUS" me? Seriously? Either you're pretty stupid scum, or you're pretty stupid town. Unfortunately at most, this is a null point... but you're seriously not playing very town-motivated. Either get in the game, or get lynched and if you're town, you'll make us waste a lynch.

Instead, how about you list your "number of reasons" and try not to be stretching, deceitful, and obviously misleading as scum would be? Give me some hope that you're here to actually play Mafia...

[neil1113]

That's one early claim, and at L-2? Why did you claim?

I am not a fan of Neil's initial attack on Bv, but I dislike Bv's response even more. I'm eagerly awaiting the response from Bv, because in no way do I consider what Neil said to be "textbook scum play".

Also we have four players needing prods at the moment. No me gusta.

I wasn't attacking Bv initially, I was defending pink. I don't like stupid suspicion being cast. Stupid suspicion leads to stupid cases, which leads to stupid lynches and very rarely are those lynches scum on the end. My goal is to win as town, and if I let someone that could potentially be town, be led down a dangerous road that isn't fair for anyone... that's not playing to my win con is it? So I'll defend those I think are innocent and attack those I think are guilty. I had no suspicion originally on Bv, until he made that response. Usually it's only the scum that need to be so defensive...

[neil1113]

Instead of quoting your whole thing and making a wall, I sifted through the useless stuff and brought out your actual points.

1. "He tries to add fear to the situation, when he says that it could hit a Townie, or worse, a POWERROLE. To me, this is blatant fearmongering."

Your opinion on what I said, was that because I was cautious with your faulty attempt at a case, I was fearmongering? Me saying you could hit a powerrole is me being cautious, not trying to cast fear onto anyone. Truth be told, you could say ANYTIME you lynch someone, you could hit a powerrole. But it'd be to no advantage. I wasn't discouraging a lynch, I was discouraging a lynch based on faulty reasoning.

2. "He then tries to call my posting entrapment, which it isn't."

I love how you throw the word in "tries." I'm pretty sure Me: "If anything, it's trapping play" was me calling your play trapping. There was nothing "attempted" there. It was blantantly called out. But grammar and punctuation aside, your quote here:

"If we keep you around, you're likely to continue this distracting play, and are going to lead to the Town's loss"

(which could also be considered fear mongering you hypocrite.. oh no, if we keep him around we lose??) that post above is a trap. No matter what he says, you can twist to use against him because you set it up perfectly here. Now it's a "you're only talking because I'm pressuring you, let's lynch him anyways" or a "see now you're not making a good enough defense, you're obviously going to be a distraction goodbye! lynch time!" Either way, no matter what he does, you've now successfully set up a potential lynch. And if you're scum, a mislynch which is a perfect chance. I've played enough games as scum to know a scum mindset and a scummy trapping play when I see it.

3. "You are saying that Pinkfloyd specifically gets better once outside of RVS, and that wagoning him now is a bad thing. You are saying that my argument is wrong."

This is so misrepresenting what I said, it's not even funny. First and foremost, this isn't even my case. Show me anywhere in my posting where I stated anything that you just said I stated. You're a liar, simply put. I never said Pink gets better, nor did I say a wagon on him is a bad thing. I never even really called your argument wrong, just faulty. My original post is here so people can compare what you said I said, to what I really said and see how you've completely pulled your accusation out of your butt. I explained your play was trapping, explained why it was bad, explained the possible result, and even clarified that my problem wasn't with Pink, it was with your fault case. I clarified that when I stated that "I'll gladly prove how many people JUST LIKE HIM..." It wasn't him I was arguing for, it was the faulty case I was arguing against. I never came to HIS defense personally.

4. "I'd also like to ask you what purpose your post was meant to have."

You're right but let me clarify. What I wanted was: I wanted to stop the wagon from developing on something faulty such as your case. I wanted to call you out for obvious entrapment, scummy play deserves to be called scummy. I wanted the town to approach the situation you created cautiously, and not blindly. And I wanted to see your reaction. Unfortunately, for the last part you've started to confirm to me that you're scum-motivated and not town-motivated like I was expecting. You can attack me for pointing out your faulty case all day long, but either way the spot light will stay between us which is exactly where I'm comfortable with it being. I have nothing to hide, but I'm pretty sure you do.

[neil1113]

I didn't agree with bv310's case on pinkfloyd but he seemed to switch from it very quickly in post 46.

I wasn't attacking Bv initially, I was defending pink

. I don't like stupid suspicion being cast. Stupid suspicion leads to stupid cases, which leads to stupid lynches and very rarely are those lynches scum on the end. My goal is to win as town, and if I let someone that could potentially be town, be led down a dangerous road that isn't fair for anyone... that's not playing to my win con is it?

So I'll defend those I think are innocent and attack those I think are guilty

. I had no suspicion originally on Bv, until he made that response. Usually it's only the scum that need to be so defensive...

It wasn't him I was arguing for, it was the faulty case I was arguing against. I never came to HIS defense personally.

There appears to be a contradiction between these two posts. In the first you say that you were defending Pink, while in the second you deny defending him

personally

? I'm sure you'll have a smart answer as to the fact that you didn't mention his name and therefore didn't defend him personally, but that still doesn't match with the fact that you said you were defending him.

Oh my, that absolutely does appear to be a contradiction. Hopefully this will help you understand my line of thinking. The above post that you quoted (the first one) was as a response to someone who accused my original post as "an attack on Bv." That wasn't it's purpose, nor did I have any desire to just attack Bv. I was coming at it from a defensive standpoint, not an attacking standpoint. I hope that makes since? If not, here... I think you underlined the wrong parts.

It wasn't him I was arguing for,

it was the faulty case I was arguing against.

I never came to HIS defense personally.

I wasn't attacking Bv initially, I was defending pink[/u]. I don't like stupid suspicion being cast.

Stupid suspicion leads to stupid cases, which leads to stupid lynches and very rarely are those lynches scum on the end.

My goal is to win as town, and if I let someone that could potentially be town, be led down a dangerous road that isn't fair for anyone... that's not playing to my win con is it? So I'll defend those I think are innocent and attack those I think are guilty. I had no suspicion originally on Bv, until he made that response. Usually it's only the scum that need to be so defensive...

I hope this clarified things.

[neil1113]

Thomas, Pinkfloyd, thoughts on Collyer/Neil debate?

A debate? It wasn't really much of a debate...

[neil1113]

I'm sorry for the lack of activity on my end. I can assure you all a post tonight (Catch up, I guess? Though there isn't much to catch up with..) and with that post I'll address everything that I've yet to. I can't post right now because I have work in 30 minutes, then gym, then girlfriend.. neither of the three would be very approving of me missing to post in a Mafia game.

[neil1113]

Wow, I'm failing at keeping updated, and all day yesterday my internet went out. Stupid Joplin. Ugh.

Real quick update for the question I see most relevant: (with what little time I have I'll try to explain this.)

Why did I specify that I wanted the spotlight on me and BV? Because up until I read through the game again with a clear mind, I was pretty confident BV was scum. Therefore in my mindset when I was posting, I was coming from a point of view of I don't care if I'm lynched for tunneling on you, I'm so confident that you're scum that I'd be willing to come under heat and possibly a lynch if it meant you'd get lynched too. I wanted to "keep the spotlight" on us because I felt pretty confident like one of us was scum, and my win condition is to eliminate them. Unfortunately after re-reading with a cleared mindset, I'm not so sure anymore. And since I haven't had the time to really pressure anyone, including BV, I couldn't accurately say rather or not he is. His last post in particular stands out to me.

Which reminds me, hopefully sometime today I'll be able to full respond to your post BV and whoever it was that was questioning me, I'll respond to you as well. Sorry for the delay. Oh and I'm pretty sure there's opportunistic scum somewhere between the two new replacees.

[neil1113]

Collyer - Semi-Active
pinkfloyd - Active
Cav - Semi-Active
Isa - Active
Thomas - ???
Fakinha - Active
bv310 - Active
Shinki - Active
neil1113 - Semi-Active

Something wrong with this picture.

I already posted about that. How about instead of calling me a lurker you read my posts.

Gabbady goof.

Active Lurking.

I don't have much time to write anything else at this time but I should have more time in around 15 hours.

VOTE: Thomas

This might be the most hypocritical post of the game. Since nobody wants to talk, and we have no real leads, I'm going to go for a hypocritical lurker. Better chance there at the moment.

To get people talking, here's some questions directed to others:

Collyer -

The last real communication I believe we had, you weren't satisfied with my responses. Does this effect your read on me? What do you think about me? Should you push a case, or do you think you'd be better off looking somewhere else?

pinkfloyd - (something interesting to note, Pink "RVS" voted Isa, but it's timing was after Isa told everyone to vote Pink because he's hammer-happy.)

You say there isn't much to comment on, so you're not posting. Then you get called a lurker, but you don't seem to have any desire to change how your approaching this game. Knowing that evidently how you've been approaching it so far is giving off scummy vibes to some people (who have called you out, and even voted for you) don't you think it'd be best to change it? If so, how come you haven't done anything about it so far? If not, couldn't that be considered a anti-town mindset? Who do you think your vote would be best served on? It's currently on Isa, do you agree with that choice? If not, should you move it? You're at L-1 but have made no defense... do you know the case against you? Or would you rather not entertain the town with a defense (for whatever reason)?

Cav -

Do you have an unhealthy obsession concerning me? In the 4 posts you've made (don't you think that's a little... bad?) you've mentioned me every time. In your last post you stated you're still not too sure about me or Bv. Has that changed? Where's your mindset now? In your opinion, should town press one of us, or move onto another person? If the latter, who and why should we choose them?

Isa -

In post 40, I was a little bit disturbed. You're asking people to join a wagon so early on in the day, was it for pressure? What was your mindset/purpose behind that call to arms? In post 80, you say you like to ask questions when the game starts to slow down. How come you stopped? I actually got this idea from you, you know. Your case against Pink as I have read it to be, is that he's posting fluff. Nothing more, nothing less. Is that scummy to you? Why/Why Not? Also just a heads up, ISO other people. He's not the only one that's only posting fluff.

Thomas -

Do you have anything to say to my accusations against you? You said you had more to post in 15 hours, what did you have to say? Did you catch something in this game that we've missed? Were you going to pressure someone? If so, who? Come on Thomas, don't lurk and try to call out people for lurking.

Fakinha - Shinki : I'm really bad at asking questions to new guys. I guess, from a new perspective, in your eyes what has happened this game? (Please, no one sentence answers.) Give me a quick walk through as if I'm just replacing in.

bv310 -

So after our nit-picking fight about you're ridiculous attempt at starting a RVS wagon, we're back to square one. Do I think you're scum? Not exactly, but you're far from clear in my book. So I want to know, where do you think we should go in this game? Should the town pressure a lurker? Target one of us? Pressure Pink?

[neil1113]

EBYOP:

"bv310 -

... you're ridiculous attempt at..."

should be

"your ridiculous attempt at..."

[neil1113]

Well, it seems me having a joke is considered "active lurking". Sucks you guys cannot lighten up.

FLAME ON.
YOU'RE ALL FIRED.

You're at L-1 and that's your defense? Why should I NOT hammer you right now? In fact:

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Pink

Either way, you're not helpful. Goodnight.

[neil1113]

Sorry for the beyond delayed response.

Addressing the cases (or attempted cases) against me:

Fakinha, my dear scum friend. Stop trying to buddy up with Thomas. "You look town to me" is not an excuse to vote for someone else. That is called chainsawing, and usually is a scum-tell for scum partnerships. However your second reason following seemed legit: "he voted for a bad reason." Is active lurking, then coming on to look like you're giving content and thus being hypocritical a bad reason to vote for someone? While Thomas has since explained himself, to a very unsatisfactory degree but to the best he could, at that point in time even Thomas himself explained that he knew it could/would appear hypocritical and he was just trying to prod-dodge. As an active member of the society of Mafia Open 337, is this not scummy play to only play "prod-dodges" with no real scum hunting involved? And then, the active lurker posts and... calls out another lurker? Come on Fakinha, even with your scum-motivated thinking you'd have to admit that doesn't exactly scream "IM TOWN!" to anyone does it?

So here's my accusation, you defended him as though he was town in your eyes. My opinion is the only way for you to have ever come to that conclusion and be comfortable sitting on that, is if you KNOW he's town (aka, you're scum.) That post seems to be a slip up to me, because Thomas has done anything BUT look like he could ever have rested in anyone's mind as a townsman.

You then went on to call my post "useless." Since when was a post, purposed to get conversation started, useless? In your faulty, stretched and rediciulous recap of my post, you forgot to mention I was also trying to get conversations started, get leads going, and get Pink to defend himself. This is obvious if you read my questions. I've never really seen scum try so hard to get conversations started, and use that as an attempt to "mask" theirselves. Usually in my experience, scum are the people trying to get RID of those that attempt to start conversations. Oh, hi Fakinha!

Bv, you can't really consider it town to come on and say "I think I have something... oh, but I'm not going to say it yet." Say it, get it out there, and let's deal with whatever you think you may have.

Shinki, your detailed and very well explained analysis of why you're voting me is so deep I don't think I can defend against that. Oh wait.. "Your hammer wasn't good. Not a bit." If you didn't want him lynched, don't be on his wagon. Rule of Mafia. You could've unvoted at any time knowing he's at L-1, yet you didn't. Don't try to turn the tables around, you're just as guilty for that lynch as the person that hammers.

"That said, what was your line of thought when you put down the hammer, Neil?" (By Isa)

I gave him a chance to accurately, unbiasedly defend himself. He choose to throw that back in my face. It pissed me off, and I wanted him out of the game. Did I think he was more likely scum then town? Yes. I couldn't (can't) figure out why town would do that? I even tried to get us to look somewhere else, and get discussions going so that Pink didn't feel trapped in a corner. But he didn't listen.

Oh and remember this?

Oh and I'm pretty sure there's opportunistic scum somewhere between the two new replacees.

I'm pretty sure that from Fakinha's postings, he's scum motivated. Also did anyone notice how quickly I got to L-2, while LyLo has not been pointed out once, nor has it been mentioned that I'm at L-2 by either of the replacees?

[neil1113]

Don't call me scum friend, I'm not scum nor your friend.

It's called respect, or honor. Something you obviously know nothing about. You really want to get offensive? Too bad, I can't bend that low.

If you don't have what to say, vote.
If you don't want to vote, say something.

GODDAMMIT.

I was and still am trying to get things to happen, so your

Usually in my experience, scum are the people trying to get RID of those that attempt to start conversations.

is totally invalid.

So when you ask questions, it doesn't promote responses? And it doesn't start a conversation? And it obviously deters people away from discussing the game when you ask GAME RELATED QUESTIONS correct? The correct responses, just in case you want to be sarcastic in your response, is yes it promotes responses, yes it starts conversations, and no it doesn't deter people away. Therefore, the post that you called "useless" and a "cover" that I'm trying to use just to "appear town" was actually a post (by your own admission, unless you disagree with any of the three points made above) that would have caused discussion in which you've completely twisted and manipulated to try and make me look like what you look like right now.

And no I'm not going to respond to "No YOU'RE looking very.. etc" because then it just becomes "No you! No you! No you! Nunh unh! I'm right! No you!" I'll let anyone with eyes read your posting, I don't have anything else to prove. You've proved it for me.

Yes, it was a bad vote on thomas. Just because he prod-dodge he should get a vote? Pfft.

This was not the case. Did you read the case? I laid it out pretty clearly, two different times

ON THIS PAGE

and yet you still completely misrepped and deceitfully twisted my words. This, combined with everything else I've mentioned, is enough for me to warrant that you're not coming from a town's point of view in your posts and you're looking to play to your win condition, which in this case from what I see from your posts, is to eliminate townies.

VOTE: Fakinha

Scum #1 found. Now who's his partner? I don't think I could say the other replacee is with a clear conscience due to.. well, that'd be a very big coincidence that BOTH scum replaced out.

[neil1113]

It's my birthday today, and I was at a freind's house all weekend, so I'll post tomorrow. I promise.

Oh and completely non-game related... Happy Birthday Collyer!

• Votecount 2-2
  
  
  
  neil1113
  (2)
  Fakinha
  ,
  Shinki
  
  
  Fakinha
  (1)
  neil1113
  
  
  
  Not Voting:
  
  
  Collyer
  ,
  Isa
  ,
  Thomas
  ,
  bv310
  
  
  
  Notes
  
  
• With
  7
  alive, it takes
  4
  to lynch
  
• The deadline for Day 2 is Saturday, October 29th, 12:00AM UTC

[neil1113]

#1st - Friend is a strong word for me. Not going offensive, it's a mafia game, lol.
#2nd - When did I say that when you ask questions you don't get responses? You're the one trying to manipulate the town.
#3rd - My win condition is to elimite YOU, scum, and another scum that idk who it is.

(Only responding to that worthy of a response.)
2. Instead of fighting opinions, let's look at facts. I'll break it down for you, since you didn't seem to get it when I posted it all at once. We'll break it down one question at a time, one statement made at a time. Here we go. Question: Does asking questions (normally) get responses?

[neil1113]

So neil, is your vote on Fakinha OMGUS?

His horrible case and attempt at making me look suspicious was kinda suspect at first, to be quite honest. However when he started twisting things and not presenting the TRUTH of the matter, but instead rewording it to show HIS truth, showed me a very horrible mindset.

Actually I take Fakinha's side here because if you look at post #127, you can see that you listed all players and how active they were based on posts and for my name you put "???" when I had more posts than others that you called "Semi-Active." You are twisting things around.

Actually, now you're just mad because I accused you of active lurking. For the record, it was made based on a "Recent Posters" list, not a number of posts someone put. And no, you don't agree with Fakinha. You disagree with my listing of active - semi-active - not active posters. That's not his case at all.

[neil1113]

#1st - Friend is a strong word for me. Not going offensive, it's a mafia game, lol.
#2nd - When did I say that when you ask questions you don't get responses? You're the one trying to manipulate the town.
#3rd - My win condition is to elimite YOU, scum, and another scum that idk who it is.

(Only responding to that worthy of a response.)
2. Instead of fighting opinions, let's look at facts. I'll break it down for you, since you didn't seem to get it when I posted it all at once. We'll break it down one question at a time, one statement made at a time. Here we go. Question: Does asking questions (normally) get responses?

Fakinha, you've posted twice and still haven't address my question to you. Does asking questions normally provoke responses from people? Or no? Fairly simple question to answer..

[neil1113]

Col, I had completely overlooked Post 64. I apologize for ignoring it, I was not intending too. Unfortunately I can't read it and make a response right now, but I surely will in my next available moment. I didn't realize I had ignored you, I thought you just dropped it so I dropped it too. And no, I have a problem that when people agree with me, I don't normally set them in my sights of objectively viewing them. I know, it's not a good thing but it's just how I've been playing this game. It never really lasts too long so I never thought to change it. But you're absolutely right, Isa has been buddying up with me pretty hard. It could be a possible scum tell, or it could be scum trying to buddy with someone they know is town, or it could just be young townie buddying up with someone they've deemed respect worthy?

I'm sure we've all done it but I've had games where I found someone I just genuinely trusted for whatever reason, and while I didn't ever buddy up as hard as Isa has been, I must admit their reads effected mine quite often. Don't get me wrong, I'm not excusing Isa buddying up to me by any means, however I will state that at most, it's a null tell unless you have previous knowledge that their postings have been scum-motivated or at best, anti-town. The reason I called Fakinha out for buddying is because his posts have already came off with a scum-mindset in my opinion (hence my vote) and so him buddying up with Thomas was almost like icing to the cake. I can see buddying used to FURTHER someone's suspicion but I couldn't see it used as the basis for it.

[neil1113]

I think we should get everyone together, see who's playing and who's out, replace those that are out (unless it's more then half), and then do a major restart of this game.

• Votecount 2-3
  
  
  
  neil1113
  (2)
  Fakinha
  ,
  Shinki
  
  
  Fakinha
  (2)
  neil1113
  ,
  Isa
  
  
  
  Not Voting:
  
  
  Collyer
  ,
  Thomas
  ,
  bv310
  
  
  
  Notes
  
  
• With
  7
  alive, it takes
  4
  to lynch
  
• The deadline for Day 2 is Saturday, October 29th, 12:00AM UTC

[neil1113]

I'm town, and you guys hammered me. Eh I kinda gave up on this game to be honest, so I'm not too mad. Good job.

[neil1113]

Scum Fakinha - 1
Scum #2 Shinki/Delta - 2
Ignorant Thomas - 3.

You're right, that's not a hammer! Unvote Thomas. Seriously. You know as well as anyone in this game I'm not scum, and Fakinha is. Look at my case and tell me I'm wrong. Better yet, look at his play and tell me I'm wrong.

Plan: Lynch Fakinha, flip scum, then lynch his buddy (obv) Delta who comes in and "OH look! Neil is OBV scum! I'll post my case when everyone posts!"

And then what happened to the case?

"Oops! He was hammered!"

Yeah, go die scum. You two both will be lynched. See ya. Come on Thomas, use your head and don't let anyone else influence you. Make your own decision, and if you still think I'm scum, vote for me. If not, let's lynch Fakinha now.

[neil1113]

Wow Neil you practically defined OMGUS in that post.

I love how you suspected the first two people who voted for you to be a scumteam, and you appeal to the emotions (and ego, with your "don't fall for that!" BS) of the third. Do you really think that's persuasive? Like you can adopt this begging tone while implying that Thomas is a sheep for voting you? Give me a break. The fact is, you acted about as anti-town as it gets yesterday. As if anyone is going to believe that you are town when you posed all those questions then opportunistically quickhammered a townie without waiting for a response. No amount of plz plz plz unvote me is going to sweep that under the rug.

Also, you made a pretty poor misrep. I never said that I would wait to post my case until everyone did; I made a post saying I was now in the game, and the very next day I laid out my case. Surely you can misrep me better than that, right?

Oh neil, you so scummy. If you don't eat rope today then my head is going to explode with disbelief.

First let's recap.

Wow Neil you practically defined OMGUS in that post.

Let's look at me defining my case against Fakihna[/quote] where in the same post I quote back to here where I stated there was opportunist scum between both of you. I didn't know if it was one, or both but I clarified at a later point that I wouldn't have believed the odds that it would have been both of you, so I chose one of you. When you sheeped him with your horrible attempt at scum hunting, you basically proved my point. Either you're extremely stupid town, which I don't believe, or you're scum.

I love how you suspected the first two people who voted for you to be a scumteam, and you appeal to the emotions (and ego, with your "don't fall for that!" BS) of the third.

Appeal to whatever is your opinion on my post. I spoke to Thomas like I would speak to a normal person. Also, I didn't suspect the first two people to vote for me. I suspected both him and your replacee when they FIRST posted, before you EVER had a wagon forming on me. Talking about mis-repping? You're stretching to get a quick lynch... you're scum.

Your point was that I made a lynch, even though I posted before asking questions to get conversation started. You know why? Because I thought Pink was going to defend himself and we'd have a day to scum hunt. Instead, Pink decided to act Anti-Town so I eliminated him. Anyone who was on his wagon, who didn't unvote him, was okay with his lynch. So don't give me the "quick lynch" speech. I told everyone it wasn't a good idea, but Pink became more and more anti-town (rather, anti-useful) and so I said forget it and lynched him. Not a good enough reason for you? Well that was my mindset and luckily, you're scum so I could care less how you feel.

Also, you made a pretty poor misrep. I never said that I would wait to post my case until everyone did; I made a post saying I was now in the game, and the very next day I laid out my case. Surely you can misrep me better than that, right?

You're absolutely right. I did misrep it because I misread it. Ironically, my misrep made it look better then the actual scum slip it was. Here's the ACTUAL posts from you.

Oh lawd neil is so much scum it makes my head spin.

He was so convinced bv was scum that he would go down just to take out bv, then he changes his vote, then he changes his vote again, then he hammers a townie for a frivolous reason. I'm still analyzing D2 (

Bold

for Emphasis)

so I'll pick that apart in more detail before voting.

But seriously how is neil not dead right now.

Oops I didn't vote for Neil

VOTE: Neil1113

Oops? No oops. You had no intention on actually trying to build a case on me, because you know you'd have to stretch crap and it'd expose you for the scum you are. No instead you and your partner attempted to force a case on me, and run with a quick lynch (and it almost worked, you had Thomas sheeping you) to win the game. Again not even specifying that we are in LY-LO.

Also I like how YOU tried to misrepresent YOURSELF to make you look better in the eyes of others reading your post.

I made a post saying I was now in the game, and the very next day I laid out my case.

You're a liar. You made a post laying a weak attempt at a case and said you'd pick apart day 2 (because your only case was on one incident in Day 1, other then your opinion on how something went down, not something to base a case on) and instead of ever expounding and ACTUALLY MAKING A CASE, you "oops!" and voted for me. You were shooting for the mislynch all the way, and you didn't care if the ACTUAL evidence was out there. This is NOT a town-mindset, this is a scum-motivated mindset wanting the lynch above everything else, and not caring about the evidence. You know I'm town, because you're scum. When we lynch Fakinha, you're next.

[neil1113]

Wow Neil you practically defined OMGUS in that post.

I love how you suspected the first two people who voted for you to be a scumteam, and you appeal to the emotions (and ego, with your "don't fall for that!" BS) of the third. Do you really think that's persuasive? Like you can adopt this begging tone while implying that Thomas is a sheep for voting you? Give me a break. The fact is, you acted about as anti-town as it gets yesterday. As if anyone is going to believe that you are town when you posed all those questions then opportunistically quickhammered a townie without waiting for a response. No amount of plz plz plz unvote me is going to sweep that under the rug.

Also, you made a pretty poor misrep. I never said that I would wait to post my case until everyone did; I made a post saying I was now in the game, and the very next day I laid out my case. Surely you can misrep me better than that, right?

Oh neil, you so scummy. If you don't eat rope today then my head is going to explode with disbelief.

First let's recap.

Wow Neil you practically defined OMGUS in that post.

Let's look at me defining my case against Fakihna where in the same post I quote back to here where I stated there was opportunist scum between both of you. I didn't know if it was one, or both but I clarified at a later point that I wouldn't have believed the odds that it would have been both of you, so I chose one of you. When you sheeped him with your horrible attempt at scum hunting, you basically proved my point. Either you're extremely stupid town, which I don't believe, or you're scum.

I love how you suspected the first two people who voted for you to be a scumteam, and you appeal to the emotions (and ego, with your "don't fall for that!" BS) of the third.

Appeal to whatever is your opinion on my post. I spoke to Thomas like I would speak to a normal person. Also, I didn't suspect the first two people to vote for me. I suspected both him and your replacee when they FIRST posted, before you EVER had a wagon forming on me. Talking about mis-repping? You're stretching to get a quick lynch... you're scum.

Your point was that I made a lynch, even though I posted before asking questions to get conversation started. You know why? Because I thought Pink was going to defend himself and we'd have a day to scum hunt. Instead, Pink decided to act Anti-Town so I eliminated him. Anyone who was on his wagon, who didn't unvote him, was okay with his lynch. So don't give me the "quick lynch" speech. I told everyone it wasn't a good idea, but Pink became more and more anti-town (rather, anti-useful) and so I said forget it and lynched him. Not a good enough reason for you? Well that was my mindset and luckily, you're scum so I could care less how you feel.

Also, you made a pretty poor misrep. I never said that I would wait to post my case until everyone did; I made a post saying I was now in the game, and the very next day I laid out my case. Surely you can misrep me better than that, right?

You're absolutely right. I did misrep it because I misread it. Ironically, my misrep made it look better then the actual scum slip it was. Here's the ACTUAL posts from you.

Oh lawd neil is so much scum it makes my head spin.

He was so convinced bv was scum that he would go down just to take out bv, then he changes his vote, then he changes his vote again, then he hammers a townie for a frivolous reason. I'm still analyzing D2 (

Bold

for Emphasis)

so I'll pick that apart in more detail before voting.

But seriously how is neil not dead right now.

Oops I didn't vote for Neil

VOTE: Neil1113

Oops? No oops. You had no intention on actually trying to build a case on me, because you know you'd have to stretch crap and it'd expose you for the scum you are. No instead you and your partner attempted to force a case on me, and run with a quick lynch (and it almost worked, you had Thomas sheeping you) to win the game. Again not even specifying that we are in LY-LO.

Also I like how YOU tried to misrepresent YOURSELF to make you look better in the eyes of others reading your post.

I made a post saying I was now in the game, and the very next day I laid out my case.

You're a liar. You made a post laying a weak attempt at a case and said you'd pick apart day 2 (because your only case was on one incident in Day 1, other then your opinion on how something went down, not something to base a case on) and instead of ever expounding and ACTUALLY MAKING A CASE, you "oops!" and voted for me. You were shooting for the mislynch all the way, and you didn't care if the ACTUAL evidence was out there. This is NOT a town-mindset, this is a scum-motivated mindset wanting the lynch above everything else, and not caring about the evidence. You know I'm town, because you're scum. When we lynch Fakinha, you're next.

EBWOQ: Fixed URL Tags.

[neil1113]

Fakinha's day 2 could be town who just doesn't have much to work with. I get a null read on that.

On the other hand, Neil you are still totally scum. Your case against Fakinha was totally OMGUS, which Thomas pointed out. Now that I criticized you, I'm #2 on your list. You can claim that you, at one point, said there could be opportunistic scum in the two that replaced; but so what? Anyone could be scum, and I didn't get on your list until I voted you. When I started to criticize you is the moment you started to declare me as scum, and not just the possibility of scum. (By the way, if you were town, you would treat everyone as being possibly scummy.)

I don't buy your "they were anti-town/anti-useful" argument for a quicklynch, especially when you tried to gain townpoints by asking some questions but you couldn't resist dropping the hammer on a townie. Maybe you thought that you could get what you want (a mislynch) and some townpoints at the same time by what you did, but it doesn't fly with me. By the way, that's the excuse that every scum uses but anti-town does not necessarily mean scummy. There is a difference.

I don't know if Fakhina is scum but I know that Neil is scum. Let's do this thing.

I answered all of your accusations in the above post that you seem to have ignored in order to use your ignorance as excuse for votes. Point being, you're tunneling on a townie, and if you were half as good at playing Mafia as you were at tunneling people, you'd cost the town the game. Rethink your stances before you post. Oh and "If you're town, you'd think everyone could be scummy" is a hypocritical statement coming from a tunneling scum such as yourself. Again, I won't address anything else in your post, because I already have and I hate repeating myself. Simply put:

This sums up my post.

• Votecount 2-4
  
  
  
  neil1113
  (3)
  Fakinha
  ,
  DeltaWave
  ,
  Thomas
  [L-1]
  
  
  Fakinha
  (2)
  neil1113
  ,
  Isa
  
  
  
  Not Voting:
  
  
  Collyer
  ,
  bv310
  
  
  
  Notes
  
  
• With
  7
  alive, it takes
  4
  to lynch
  
• The deadline for Day 2 is Saturday, October 29th, 12:00AM UTC

[neil1113]

You argument sucks. You must die. You can be like "herp derp delta sucks" but the case against you is legit. You answered my accusations with ridiculous assertions, but you can't explain why I only got on your suspect list for realsies once I started to suspect you. Everything you've done so far has been anti-town and OMGUS. You hammered Pink even though that would absolutely not be the pro-town thing to do (townies like discussion, why don't you? Afraid that pink would have convinced people to leave the wagon?) and your votes on Fakhina and myself are so OMGUS it hurts. You absolutely have to eat rope today.

Wow. You truly are horrible at Mafia aren't you?

If anyone else second's this ridiculous attempt at getting me to defend myself AGAIN, I'll gladly do it. But if this clown is the only person who doesn't find my above answer an... answer, then I won't humor him with a response. Until then, you realize that scum has officially convinced the whole day today to be focused on me, a townie for what purpose? Mis-lynch, and then if for some reason their case failed (like it did), they'd have successfully wasted the whole day. But the only thing we can do as town, is to be ACTIVE and talk. That means Col, Isa, Thomas, BV, you guys need to start saying things and making conversations otherwise we'll lose this game. Deadline is in a little more then a week, we need to get some discussion going.

[neil1113]

Neil, this was drenched earlier, but it has been bought up by many people before me - why did you not push for us to answer your questions you asked by the end of day 1? Did they become irrelevant for you? This is my main concern with you right now.

I was going to push for everyone to answer. The point of my post was to get discussion going, while Pink defended himself so that we could have a different direction to go down that day instead of "Anti-town Town who doesn't post content" which seems almost too anti-town to actually be scum. I wasn't comfortable with his lynch, but when he took my oppurtunity for him to defend himself, and spit on it by doing the very thing I asked him to defend himself from, I was like forget it. I'm done with him. And like I've mentioned before, everyone on his wagon was okay with him being lynched or should have been, and if not they should've unvoted. It takes more then one person to lynch someone, let's not forget.

[neil1113]

Well with the new day, I figured we'd have something to talk about based on the night. And my first post was purposed to defend myself.

[neil1113]

Wow, no response. What a surprise from someone who apparently dislikes discussion so much that he's willing to hammer a townie to prevent it! If we don't kill you today then this will seriously be a fail game.

Yep. Why is he still alive? Srsly, guys... we lynch neil and isa and good game.
I don't have nor need to do anything else.

Why are you pushing so hard for my mislynch? I've already responded to your case.

Oh wait, you're scum pushing for the mislynch, that makes more sense.

[neil1113]

@Collyer - There wasn't much in D2 to analyze. I don't see why Fakinha is suspicious for anything they did before I replaced in. I find their unquestioning agreement with me to be suspect but I strongly think that Neil is scum so I don't know what to make of that. If Neil is town then it could be that Fakinha is just jumping on board. If Neil turns out not to be scum then I'm heading straight for Fakinha. If he is scum, then Isa.

• Votecount 2-5
  
  
  
  neil1113
  (3)
  Fakinha
  ,
  DeltaWave
  ,
  Thomas
  [L-1]
  
  
  Fakinha
  (1)
  neil1113
  
  
  DeltaWave
  (1)
  Isa
  
  
  
  Not Voting:
  
  
  Collyer
  ,
  bv310
  
  
  
  Notes
  
  
• With
  7
  alive, it takes
  4
  to lynch
  
• The deadline for Day 2 is Saturday, October 29th, 12:00AM UTC

You're so scum it hurts. You're leading the town into a mislynch even though I've said consecutively that we're at L-2. Seriously guys? Let's lynch scum here.

[neil1113]

Do you realize the above post is the first time Fakinha has mentioned ANYTHING concerning Delta in a questioning manner? It's usually "wow, good point!" Or "Delta, whatcha think about this?"

Anyways, I'm debating if there's any point in even pursuing this game anymore. I've posted a defense, but it seems as though everyone has ignored it because Delta with his mass postings called it "lame and AtE." Emotion isn't scummy, it's a null point I thought. Everyone seems to keep making the assumption "When Neil flips..." so even though I'm town, if it's already set on me being lynched, what's the point in even trying anymore? I've defended myself, posted everything truthful and answered every opposition against me. Yet scum has done a good job of pointing me as the lynch target of the day.

• Votecount 2-6
  
  
  
  neil1113
  (3)
  Fakinha
  ,
  DeltaWave
  ,
  Thomas
  [L-1]
  
  
  Fakinha
  (1)
  neil1113
  
  
  DeltaWave
  (1)
  Isa
  
  
  
  Not Voting:
  
  
  Collyer
  ,
  bv310
  
  
  
  Notes
  
  
• With
  7
  alive, it takes
  4
  to lynch
  
• The deadline for Day 2 is Saturday, October 29th, 12:00AM UTC

[neil1113]

Since when did OMGUS ever discredit a case? Don't be stupid people. And I've already mentioned my suspicion, and possible suspicion WAY before Delta voted me. I mentioned my initial suspicion the minute they both started playing off of each other and how it looked like obvious buddying. They continued to buddy and made a ridiculous attempt at trying to pitch me as scummy, and thus you've had my vote. I've made a CASE on both of them, and Delta himself is scummy. Just ISO him, and you'll see. Or look at my posts concerning him. It's quite obvious.

Again, if you discredit a case for whatever reason, you're not playing to your win condition. Null-tells do not always equal scum people.

[neil1113]

Neil it's hypocritical to attack Fakinha and DeltaWave for buddying when it's a null tell when it happens to you. The argument that it only contributes to a case if you think the person has a 'scum mindset' is far too convinient.

Again, if you discredit a case for whatever reason, you're not playing to your win condition. Null-tells do not always equal scum people.

I don't get this at all. How does discrediting a case act against your win condition? What if you discredit the case of someone who is the opposing faction, surely that works in your favour?

To the top post:

When did I buddy? And I never claimed buddying was a scum-tell did I? However, tells are easily enforced when you have a suspicion on someone, because you're judging people not by their character, but by their motivation. I don't understand your last part, because that's EXACTLY what we're supposed to be looking for. Scum Mindsets. You can't tell someone is scum just by posts, it's the motivation behind the posts. Unless of course you're playing a Newbie game, but that's different.

To the bottom post:

I should've clarified, though I figured anyone with half sense would understand where I'm coming from. As town, it makes no sense to skip over or discredit a person's case, despite your reads on them. If the case is accurate/right and you just choose to ignore it, you're not playing the game of Mafia from a Town's perspective. The point of town is to find the incriminating evidence, and lynch those who are scum in town's clothing. Ignoring a case that could potentially be accurate, for whatever reason, is a dangerous game. If you're the person that the case is on however, like Delta, it makes sense to simply say "Oh whatever. OMGUS. Don't even read the case... afterall, it might be right and eliminate me! Then it'd leave only my partner left..." I can understand Delta ignoring my posts, since they are right, but I want to draw attention back to my content concerning Delta and Fakinha, because of my suspicions. I want others to read them, and not just ignore them because Delta did a great job of pushing them back a couple pages with his insistent bickering (like what he's currently doing with Isa.)

[neil1113]

@Isa - I'm undecided on Collyer. I said this before, plain and simple (Post 264). Starting to think that you're doing everything in your power to divert the conversation away from Neil.

@Neil - Here you are again with these appeals to emotion. Or should they be called appeals to ego? Either way, you've consistently based your arguments on this foundation (both implicit and explicit) that people must be stupid or unaware to vote for you.

1.("Half sense", is how you put it.)

Once you strip away all that BS filler, your case is founded only on OMGUS.

2.Merely speculating that my spot could have been scum at one point earlier in the game is not sufficient foundation for you to be so certain about your read.

3.This is why the town is jumping down your throat;

your position is illogical and when that gets pointed out, you make these subtle and not-so-subtle appeals to emotion and ego.

4.This is one reason why I know you are scum.

1. You've completely misrepped the post DIRECTLY above you. You're quite stupid here. Look above your post and see what I was addressing as "half sense." It wasn't voting for me. It actually had nothing to do with voting for me. It had to do with discrediting cases. Nice try.

2. Really? Only on OMGUS? In the post here I've made 3 different points about Fakinha, and completely separate of that I made 3 different points addressed to this scum to show how faulty his case was, how stretching it is, and how it was a completely anti-town based case and he couldn't address those points. He STILL hasn't. In that same post, you're only case at that point was "The hammer wasn't good." Even your scum partner pointed out how incredibly weak of an attempt at a wagon that was.

And then here again I reiterated the 3 points that he refused to respond to, which split his case wide open and showed it for what it was. A scum-motivated push.

Then we get to you. Here you blatantly misrep me, and I make 3 great points that you've had no response to besides "OMGUS" and "AtE (emotion or ego)" and then claim it doesn't count. It doesn't work that way.

So the whole "It's nothing but OMGUS" is bull crap. Deal with the 3 points first, which I've re-posted for you 4 different times now I believe, and then you can justify it as nothing but OMGUS. Until then, you've got a case on you, and it's a pretty good one. Because it's based on FACTS and not "you're just scum." You have no case on me, and if you think you do, I beg you to make one. I've addressed every single thing you've mentioned to me when you've actually attempted (but as shown through this game, have not succeeded.)

3. The town isn't jumping down my throat lol. But great attempt at seeming threatening. Or rather, trying.

4. AtE is a scum-tell? How is scum more likely to be emotional then town? Does personality not matter? Experience? Life decisions? Current circumstances? AtE (or being emotional) is not a scum tell, nor is it a town-tell. It's a Human-tell.

[neil1113]

1. Oh Neil, your appeals to emotion are so charming. Looks like you're down to calling me stupid now. Anyway, you said that anyone with half sense would "know where you're coming from." Don't try to weasel out of this.

2. Your case rests on the presumption that Fakhina is scum. That's why I don't buy it. Your points against me are laughable and I already responded to them.

3. If the town's not jumping down your throat, why are you acting so defensive?

4. You're trying to muddy the waters by being insulting. You're already scummy, freaking out and resorting to appeals to emotion doesn't help your case one bit.

1. Were we, or were we not discussing the point of why or why not you would want to discredit a wagon? Simple question. AtE is not dismissal, and you still have to answer the question. Was the topic of said conversation about me being voted on or against, or was it discussing the point of why someone would want to discredit a wagon? Don't give me a big paragraph, just answer the question.

2. "The case rests on Fakinha is scum." Should you make a case on someone that is town? Or are you referring to your post? In which case "Your hammer is no good" is neither a good case with any merit, nor does it say anything about my "points" against you. You're not even talking about the post anymore, you didn't even read it did you? How about instead of just saying "it's laughable" and using terms like AtE and AtE(ego) why don't you actually respond to the posts? AtE does not disqualify a case, nor a question from an answer. I'm simply exposing you for how scummy you really are.

As far as "I've already answered them"... really? You're next post (for everyone to see) was here in which not only did you not address the points, instead you stuck to your normal terms of "Neil you are totally scum", "(paraphrased) your case on me is OMGUS", and "I don't know if Fakinha is scum, but Neil is. Let's do this." Not once did you address any of the 3 main points I made against you in that post, BUT maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you addressed it at a later date... let's look shall we?

Here maybe you responded. Wait no, all you said was "Your argument sucks" and "Everything you've done is anti-town and OMGUS" as well as totally misrep the hammer to make me look scummy in which I've already explained why the hammer, more then enough times for the average person to understand. I'd go through the rest of your posts, but I feel like I lose IQ points reading "you're just scum" and "it's just OMGUS" and "oh AtE now?"... you've never responded to the points, and you never admitted you flat out lied and misrepped yourself, twisting the truth to make yourself look better.

3. Defensive to who? Lol good try though.

4. Muddy the waters? Wow, you're horrible at this stretching the truth thing. I've answered every accusation against me, and answered everyone's questions concerning me. That's not exactly "muddying the waters" you know... But here let me give you an example of muddying the waters.

"Your points against me are laughable and I already responded to them."

(Responded post in reference)

"You're totally scum. You're OMGUS everyone, and you're Anti-Town. You must be lynched."

Hey wait a second! That's you!

In fact, I'd much rather you be gone before Fakinha.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: DeltaWave

At least think we'd have the 2nd half of the scum team inactive instead of (using your own words) "muddying the waters."

[neil1113]

Alright it's time to choose Col, Bv. Who do you think is scum between myself and Delta? I really have nothing left to say, the game is in your hands. If you think I'm scum, hammer me. If not, we need BOTH of you to vote for Delta. Thomas isn't really around it doesn't seem like, and the two scum are piled onto me (and considering they've been called out, I doubt either would be willing to change wagons to buss) so it's up to you guys. You guys have a little less then 24 hours to decide. I've said what I've needed to say, and now it's up to you guys. Either way we're going to need both of you to be active now.

[neil1113]

Well considering the day is over, I'm town. Like I've stated a hundred times. I'm surprised I still got lynched, as the two scum in this game are painfully obvious. If I was scum, would it not have made sense to self-hammer to stop you guys from getting any more information to go into the night with?

Anywho, good game scum. When I flip town, everyone will be in Ly-Lo for the record. Just a heads up to watch for the scum trying to immediately push a mislynch off the bat. Don't fall into that trap (Thomas)

[neil1113]

Why would I lie to you now? It would do neither of us any benefit...

[neil1113]

Delta, I can't wait for your lynch personally. You've been so scummy this whole game, and you're so obvious scum it hurts. When town wakes up and realizes it, and see's I'm right, then we'll win.

"It's useful if twilight ends up being long.."

Bull crap. It serves no purpose to fake being town, except shows you're an ass.