Open 438: Masons and Mafia - Game Over

[Salamence20]

VOTE: salamence20

You know why

VOTE: DJD

Challenge accepted, friend. No hard feelings right?

Don't be scummy today, ok? Or if you are scum, go ahead and be scummy.

[Salamence20]

Cats, ponies, and Salamences.

This will be fun.

[Salamence20]

Ohai whiskers, i didnt notice you until I heard you calling me stupid and hurting my feelings.

I like to think of every different game I play a new slate where I can try and not flail like a moron. Maybe this will be the day I get my first win as town.

I see my nemesis, PG is already being scummy. But i feel the guy is still VI.

Then again, with me, DJD, and PG, things might get really retarded.

UNVOTE:

Now that we are out of RVS, im going to check the cases on everyone so far, and be useful for a change.

[Salamence20]

^^Scummy. My vote on sala is no longer random vendetta vote.

Whats your thoughts on grey, godot and their wagons?

Why was that scummy?

[Salamence20]

Im sorry, im at my phone and I saw the VC.

I wasnt doing an indept anaylsis.

PG is like me, naturaly scummy.

[Salamence20]

Except, you're not "naturally scummy" when you bother to give one flying feather. You've proven that much in the past.
SINCE you've proven that much, I expect more of you this game. I know you're capable of not-stupid play and if you don't play not-stupid in this game I will lynch you.

I plan too.

Now i am going to get off my phone now, and ill read when I get back.

P-edit:

Ill respond fully when i am at a computer.

[Salamence20]

Ok, I'm at my computer.

First thing I need to finish right now, because I'm not going to fight him over it this whole game

@DJD:

Look, I know you are mad at me for my bad playing last game (please, for the record, not talk about it, please? It was in the past, I want to keep it there), but if you are going to revenge vote me for that, and say everything I post is scummy, I am just going to ask you replace out now. Don't even tell me my post is scummy, you said nothing about PG, McStab, and their arguements, but yet, after I post, suddenly there is a post that calls me for being scummy, and then you go out and say, lynch Sala, I will be so happy. You have been tunneling me, and for almost no reason. Look, DJD, I am sorry for what I did. You're a good scumhunter, you're better than me, and you need to find actual scum rather than sit on me and critizise me for every post I make, starting with opinion on PG, Mcstab, and their arguments.


Now, where was I, oh yeah, everything else:

Godot's RVS vote being random is an interesting case, but I feel it wasn't suspisious at all, maybe thats because I don't have that much experience in RVS, being my third game where I actually participated in RVS, usually RVS has something to do with grudges (such as DJD and mine) or just something they said or OMGUS (Whiskers and Om).

McStab jumping on the wagon like that, is rather interesting given what Hyperion stated, but I am going to wait to see what McStab has to say about this.

DoubleJD seems to be on more of a personal agenda than a town one.

QFT because...

FOS mcstab.

Give me a good reason DJD, why my post makes me a bigger scum target than McStab that doesn't involve your personal revenge.

Thanks for the offer, but I'll respectfully decline to make your cockfight a two-way bout. It's a game. Have some fun.

I like having rivals, but maybe mafia isn't the game to have rivals in, because you never know how they will flip.

But anyways, you are right, lets have fun, and not let the past be the present *Holds white flag*

Yeah... but it would make my day to get to lynch Salamence too. I

know

that feel.

Anyway: greygnarl, he may appear to be tunnelling, but DJD's attack on Sal looks pretty strong-- as far as a pge 2 attack goes.

[Connection: greygnarl & Salamence]

I love you too, whiskers.

Gut: What if Whiskers is scum with DJD!!!!
Mind: No gut, I'm done listening to you, you're the reason no one likes us
Gut: But look at that post, shes defending DJD over a page 2 attack on you!!!
Mind: But other than that, there are no connections between DJD and Whiskers other than hating us.
Gut: DJD is trying to mislynch you!!!!
Mind: No, he is just mad about our last game.
Gut: Fine then, ignore me, I hope you die.

[Salamence20]

The amount of buddying... Holy shit.

VOTE: OM

Why choose gut over logic?

Why is Whiskers super obvtown?

[Salamence20]

Well this was fun.

Two scum found, yay.

Stop being fluffy with your scumbuddy whiskers.

[Salamence20]

Well aren't you cocky?
Don't worry, I won't hold it against you though. I'm the same way

The funniest part was how you were more interested in why Whiskers was town than you were in why you were scum. Trying to find Masons now are we?

Well you said gut, so really, there was no point in asking. I find it hard to give all this towncred to whiskers, when nothing has really happened.

[Salamence20]

Spoiler: Om Case

DoubleJD, Malakittens, and apparently Greywing confirmed for cats. Was gonna vote for Mala, because you shouldn't vote for cats, Mala! *spritz,* but instead

Vote: Om Nom Nom

, because if you can post at school, you can RVS at school. You could do it on your phone, on your ipod. There's not really anything to read yet.

Calls him out for not RVS voting.

VOTE: Whiskers
OMGUS

Votes back

His posts are the ones that come from the guy with no avatar.
Man, you're so scummy.

Calls Om scummy over virtually nothing.

*Intermission (Om stays quiet, and Whiskers calls for a Greywing wagon that McStab suddenly jumps on, but thats another story)*

Oh man wall posts already
I'll try my best to have this not turn into one of my demotivated townie games.

I forgot basically everything I just read, but Salamence is scum. Will read again after I do my stuff in other games.

Fuck everything else I read, Sala is scum! Jumps on the idea with DJD and Whiskers.

I forgot basically everything I just read, but Salamence is scum. Will read again after I do my stuff in other games.

"I forgot everything I just read" fits this game pretty nicely-- I don't really understand what went on with ProsecutorG < Pasch < Greywing. I take the posts side by side and compare them and

kiiind

of see it but when I don't have them both up I can't remember what the case is.

Unvote

(thereby voiding the previous votecount!)
I voted Greywing over PG because McStab seems really intent on pushing PG to a lynch, even though Greywing was scummier (according to Stab's post).

Claims to not know what was going on with PG/Pasch/GreyW despite calling for a wagon on Grey. Ignores Om's comment on Salascum

I should probably unvote too.
UNVOTE:
(still not done yet btw)

Also it could be a problem for me. I have trouble with keeping motivated if I don't play a huge part in the game. Generally this hinges on how active I am compared to other people at the start.

Unvotes Whiskers, followed by fluff.

Can't be fucked responding to shit now.
Mah gut is saying Sala is scum and probably Godot too.
Logic is making me lean towards McStab.
Whiskers is like super duper obvtown.

VOTE: Sala

Joins DJD on a Sala wagon, using gut as a scumhunting method. Calls Whiskers obvtown, makes me think Om is sheeping either Whiskers (who hasn't voted but has threatened to) or DJD.

Whiskers is like super duper obvtown.

I really, REALLY don't like that.
Hooves of Suspicion go to Ohm.

Om buddies Whiskers, whiskers gets suspisious. No vote from her.

I say shit like that in almost every game I'm in.
It's a null-tell.

I feel that Om may not be fully confident in his reads, otherwise he wouldnt of said this.

Whiskers you should be a bro this game and team up with me.
We shall dominate and kill all teh scumz0rz.

More buddying, something Whiskers already HoS him for.

Yes, I'm completely scared I may be scum.

Sarcasmic Slip

Gives Whiskers too much towncred, when nothing has happened to make Whiskers town, not to mention obvtown.

It wasn't actually taken out of context, you just worded it badly.
No, I'm pretty confident in Whiskers being town right now.

Is very confident on Whiskerstown. Look at above.

*Followed by useless posts of speculation that they are both scum, ponies, and fluff.*

Nice OMGUS lol.

My gut is much better than my logic. I have multiple games that can back this up.

Whiskers is super obvtown because he is.

Pretty reckless post here.

Again, calls me scum on gut, which holds no weight, not to mention you were possibly sheeping Whiskers or DJD.

Has nothing to backup his Whiskers town claim.

Summary: We need to lynch Om, and his flip gives us information on Whiskers. I don't think the masons would be that stupid to buddy with other masons.

PG #105 makes PG town. I would be game for a McStab lynch, but he is still in the Null/Scum Category. Whiskers, is still null.

I'm not big into Sal's meta, but I don't see how his post was really scummy.

Though Sal.. I don't see them as scum partners. It's way too obvious, but they are joking around and poking fun at each other. It's a null tell, but I asked the possibilities thing to make it aware to them that it came off as they are blindly trusting each other.

I honestly don't get it either. AtE was not what I was looking for. I just knew why DJD was going after me, and I had to stop it, because I wasn't going to spend all game whining about DJD. But you never know, Mala, they may not be scumbuddies, but one of them may be scum, trying to buddy town, such as Om.

Backed off of Greywing's wagon because I don't fully understand why either of them (Greywing or... PG?) is up for voting. I voted Greywing because

I didn't want McStab to have control over who we lynched first

.

Wtf is this? How did McStab have any control of anything this early into the game? Were you trying to counter-wagon, and McStab just happened to sheep you? What is your read on McStab Whiskers?

[Salamence20]

Mod: Double Post. Please delete.

fixed.

[Salamence20]

Just because i dont like salamance, does not make my point mute. Which, he has completely ignored.

Scummy because you claim PG is scummy but also a Village Idiot.

(I've been called scummy and VI before, believe it or not, you can be both, this is not scummy)

I dont see how you can already claim him to be town at this point if you also think theres legit reason to think hes scummy

(Like everyone else has said, his random RVS is scummy, but it would be something a noob would do, it would be something I would do for the lulz, and I am not going to hold that against him, because its rediculous when we have better scum suspects, such as Om and McStab)

.

In addition, you dont know about the other cases on people...so you only seem to have been looking at pg. Thats very curious. Couple that with 3 lines of fluff to start the post and i see a solid scum post from you.

(Again, skimming at the time, wasn't going indept)

Other wagons are all meh at this point

(Meh!? Shitty opinion, if you ask me)

, and everyone should join me in lynching you

(This is a try-hard push attempt.)

Hey sala, ill give you different questions to answer since you didnt like my first few.

Which parts of PG's first three posts make you feel he is a VI, and which parts made you think he was scummy? Why does him not being a vi in post 105 make him town? Does this contradict your previous thoughts about his scummy behavior?

His first post, makes him scummy.
His join date and certain ongoing things make him VI.
I like 105, it sounds like a good plan, I like his points, it makes me think McStab could be possible scum, as do other posts. This whole post feels like town, had he not had an early scum issue, I would call him leader of the town.
Yes, it does, however, it was not a strong scumread, and I wasn't going to hold him to it.

[Salamence20]

1.DoubleJD - (Null, he would probably be town if I felt he was doing something other than tunnel me)
2.Hyperion - (Null/Town)
3.Malakittens - (Null/Town)
4.Paschendale - (Null)
5.Greywing - (Null)
6.seilkops - (???????)
7.Om of the Nom - (Scum, already made a post on this)
9.ProsecutorGodot - (Town, already made a post on this)
10.Pressed Bunson - (Who!?!?!)
11.McStab - (Null/Scum, reasons already said)
12.Whiskers - (Ugh... Null)
13.greygnarl - (Null)

[Salamence20]

What changed in so little time?

[Salamence20]

@Salamence: McStab said two people were scummy: PG and Greywing. Right? He wanted to lynch PG go go go, iirc. He gave reasons for both of them being scummy, then voted the less scummy one. It didn't seem right, so I voted for the more scummy one.
What doesn't make sense about this?

Alright. Day 1, new game, RVS time.

Courtesy of random.org, the number 4.

VOTE: Paschendale

We're officially out of RVS, folks.

Vote:ProsecutorGodot

This is mega scummy. Why feel the need to go to random.org? Worried about appearing suspicious? This is also a detriment to everyone because RVS isn't supposed to be truly random.

Wagon ahoy!

McStab's first post: Godot is scum for Random RVS, quickwagon gogo. Absolutely no talk about GreyW.

After Isoing McStab before the GW vote, I don't see where he says GW is scummy. He says that GW may be a suspect depending on PG's flip, that's not really saying GW is scummy if you ask me.

Then YOU VOTE GW. AND HE FOLLOWS. You must be pretty. pretty good at persuasion.

So I do not understand:

1. Where you saw McStab call GW scummy pre-vote
2. Why you felt a scum vibe on GW that was stronger than PG

[Salamence20]

I'd prefer an OM lynch today.

But if necessary I will go for McStab, my second scumpick.

[Salamence20]

Salamance: Seems to be talking about himself more than anyone else. His analysis of Om is fairly weak, and is mainly about the playstyle issues I mentioned above. He says we need to lynch Om over this, in very certain tones, but then says that McStab is his scummy read. Sala feels very inconsistent to me. (Slight scum)

I'm confused on two things

1. How am I talking about myself, when I needed to answer DJD's questions, Whiskers's questions, and PG?

2. I can't have 2 scum reads, because its inconsistent!?!?! WTF? I said Om is my bigger read, and McStab my second choice, if the Om wagon doesn't catch steam, I will be happy to vote McStab.

[Salamence20]

Umm what????

Spoiler: McStab's posts before voting GW

Alright. Day 1, new game, RVS time.

Courtesy of random.org, the number 4.

VOTE: Paschendale

We're officially out of RVS, folks.

Vote:ProsecutorGodot

This is mega scummy. Why feel the need to go to random.org? Worried about appearing suspicious? This is also a detriment to everyone because RVS isn't supposed to be truly random.

Wagon ahoy!

Why GW?

Overly defensive over a random vote.

Trying to make someone look scummy based on absolutely nothing.

Why doesn't any of this apply to PG?

I still think it's wrong to roll or even vote RVS by an RNG.

As for GW I don't know why, but I felt his vote was a bit off which is why I questioned it.

@ McStab: Possibly a GW/PG team, somehow? Maybe that's why GW didn't apply it to PG? Might be a bit too early for these reads on Page 2, but there's tons of factors to consider though.

It's possible, but I don't think speculating at this stage is a good thing. Masons know their own, Mafia know their own, and establishing a link between two people that turn out to be masons would be quite bad.

Instead of trying to use associative links, we should wait until someone flips scum for their individual behaviour, if you ask me. For now, I think Greywing's hypocrisy should be noted but not pushed; if PG flips scum, then he's a prime suspect.


I don't buy the "I was trying to get us out of RVS by being random". Read Whiskers sig link and that explains why. The only reason we're out of RVS is because he's scummy as hell, let's get a wagon going up in here.

I can get on board with Greywing, post #34 is hypocritiscummy

Where the fuck do you say "GW is scummy" in any of these posts!?!?! You don't except when Whiskers does, you suddenly jump on. People start to notice, and what do you do? Go after the most easiest player to score a counter-wagon on. I am afraid you just passed Om on the scumdar.

UNVOTE: OM
VOTE: McStab

When you flip mafia, I am going to lynch Om, then your two flips will help me decide on Whiskers.

GG

[Salamence20]

Your vote on him was really scummy.

How?



@Sala: Did you just read what I took all that time to point out to you?


Proposition 1: PG is scum.
Proposition 2: GW is related to PG.
Conclusion: GW is scum.


It's not explicitly said "GW is scummy" it's inferred.

Everyone jump on the Sala wagon, full speed ahead

And you're voting me over testing your propositions because...

[Salamence20]

Ok, so explained that part.

But if this is your logic, why are you voting me over your logic, when you seem so determined that PG and GW are scum?

I'm just not getting why you were so determined on calling those two scum, and then out of nowhere calling me scummy, my case weak, and voting me.

[Salamence20]

*Facepalm*

[Salamence20]

I went back to do a reread of Om to find quotes and more exact evidence and noticed the wiki page on his profile.


My defining traits:

As Town:

~Motivational problems if the game has low activity
~Aggressiveness and thirst for blood
~Not afraid to say scummy shit
~Frequent yelling
~High activity, especially near the start of the game
~Gut, gut, gut, gut all the way
~Getting annoyed at people when they don't listen to me
~Contradicting myself because I forgot something, or using keywords to juice up my posts to get someone lynched
~Not reading the thread when I replace into a game with more than 20 pages

If this is true then I would remove him from my list of suspects.

I retract my scumread then, saying this is true. Sorry OM

[Salamence20]

Well, saying that it is his meta, what case do I have?

Om is probably town now for that stuff.

[Salamence20]

Ok, I'm lost.

Most of the stuff I called Om scummy for is part of his town meta.

I know meta isn't that great of a scumhunting method, but if it is his meta, and I will go check, I really got nothing other than his read on Whiskers and I.

How can I call him scum when I got nothing other than gut????

/hopelessly confused.

[Salamence20]

Who do you suggest we go for first?

[Salamence20]

I dont know what you want from me when i backed off.

Most of the things that i called him scummy is scummy, yes, but it is his proclaimed self-meta, and for the moment it is pretty much a null-tell.

It shouldnt matter though, for now. We need to lynch McStab.

[Salamence20]

Well, there you have it

Another game, another time I fuck up as town.

VOTE: Salamence20

GG, sorry I suck.

Claiming VT at L-2.

Now excuse me while I kill myself over how bad I am.

[Salamence20]

WHAT THE FUCK!!!

Why did all 3 of you shoot Hyperon?!?!?

DJD: It's my turn To hold a grudge now. Other than that, good job being leader of the town.

I would of liked a QT as well. Atleast I would of had a better sense of what to do as scum.