Open 477: Faith +1 (Game Over)

[serrapaladin]

Hi guys. Haven't read anything except the last page, but if I have this right, we're in MyLo with one FH left, and Rach wants to lynch my slot, which is bad, cause I'm a townie. I'll have caught up in a bit.

[serrapaladin]

Right, I've sort of gotten my head around this game, and I have no idea how slimer made it to MyLo. With his play style, he's basically unreadable.

I'm confused by Rach's assessment that he's probtown:

Where is Mae?

Ok here you go Boro

You town because you are the other FH duh...

Slimer is probtown cause well he is Slimer.

but my town read on him is less than the one on you.

I think Mae is the last scum

hence my vote on her.

The line after that is also a bit odd. Of course the non cc'd last PR is going to be more townie. Unless I'm missing something, Boro is conftown.

There's also:

With a few rare exceptions and those are usually rather obvious, replacing out is null, People do it for non alignment reasons at least in my experience.

I think that is all you are going to get out of Slimer though And it does not look like Mae is going to respond...

Which definitely strengthens my vote on her...

So apparently replacing out is not alignment indicative, but in the case of Mae/me it strengthens Rach's vote. It looks to me as though Rach has decided she can't reasonably switch to slimer after what she's said and is trying to twist the circumstances to confirm her vote. Also, I'm not getting the same town vibe from Rach as I have in our last two games, so I think she's more likely scum than slimer.

[serrapaladin]

Even then, you were very quick to paint her (site-wide) inactivity as scummy.

Why were you hesitant to call Boro conftown? And can you point to a single post that you identify as scum slimer?

[serrapaladin]

What makes you think his "go ahead and lynch me" wasn't a gambit? Do you think he would have made it to LyLo otherwise? What do you think of slimer's recent walls?

I don't really see where your "max" suspicion of Mae comes from. Could you please summarize why my slot is scum in about 3 sentences?

Mala dying after suspecting my slot is major WIFOM. Mala was the obvious kill for her claim, and the fact that you value her opinion more than that of other confirmed townies is confirmation bias at best and scummy at worst.

[serrapaladin]

Everyone that has flipped town is a confirmed townie...

[serrapaladin]

Well that frankly just looks as though you were looking for reasons to have Mala's opinion carry more weight...

I'll be looking forward to a mini-case, as I really haven't seen much from you against my slot, besides sheeping Mala and making blank statements. Even slimer has made more of a case against Mae, and he's not even voting us.

For me, the one thing that's speaking in slimer's favour is his apparent wish to look at both you and Mae in this MyLo. As scum, I'd imagine he could just make a one-sided case again Mae, at which point Boro could only choose between a No Lynch and lynching my slot.

Unless you can convince me that you're not scum trying to ride Mala's points against me/Mae to victory, I'll be voting you.

[serrapaladin]

The way you're bashing Rach reminds me of

Reference to ongoing game removed

.

So I think it could be Mae/Serra actually. I mean I know I was leaning towards Rach because I'm a bad townie who can't play this game worth a shish, but the fact that Serra seems so obsessed with forcing Rach to give HER opinion about something resembles too closely to the self-destruct attack that prosecutors give to the defense.

I'm now leaning towards Serra, and learning how to play the game a bit more

The reason I'm questioning Rach is that I have a much better track record of reading her than you. Before we played together as scum, I read through a few of your games, and I would have been better at identifying your alignment had I flipped a coin, where as I have correctly identified town-Rach our last two games.

I want her to give her own opinions on why my slot is scum so I have something to defend myself against. She has been sheeping Mala's case against Mae, pounding on the fact that Mala is conftown, without herself proving the merit of the case.

How would you have expected me approach this? Rach has made it clear she's only voting me, but she hasn't put herself out there enough for me to have enough to respond to or attack. All of her posts have been short, she hasn't made anything resembling a case, she was part of the TCS mislynch leading up to here while keeping her vote on Mae on the back burner to fall back on for MyLo, without ever giving a true reason for it except "Mala thinks so".

[serrapaladin]

Would that I could make a stronger entrance, but as I was reading through this thread, all of the hell broke loose at work.

Policy Lynch time

RED FLAG

Policy lynches do

not

help town.

The slimer wagon is a shitwagon and all of you on it should are bad people who should feel bad.

Confirming that slimer does not have a flawless scum victory, I've beat scum-slimer and it was hardly what one would call one of the labours of Hercules, especially given his French battle tactics and that of his partner.

VOTE: Maenara

MFoS: unseencamo

This was Beli's first post after replacing in. Neither USC nor my slot had received much attention before this, so it would be exceedingly unlikely for him to start off bussing BOTH of his scumbuddies. There would have been no reason for him to vote one scumbuddy while FoSing the other. Instead, Beli wanted to start pushing a lynch on a townie (me ), while distancing/soft-bussing USC. In 563, his scum reads are usc, Mae and Mac. Do you really think he would start off bussing both of his buddies, when under no pressure to do so?

[serrapaladin]

I can't exclude the possibility of you being scum because out of all people, self-voting as scum isn't something I would put past you. Still, I do think you're more likely town than Rach. Beli is not the sort of guy to come out bussing both of his buddies for WIFOM reasons. Besides WIFOM, scum has absolutely no reason to double-bus. Beli didn't replace into a particularly townie spot, so there's no way he'd want both of his buddies lynched.

It's not just unlikely. Beli replaced in during the day, so had no way of communicating with his buddies before he made that post. There's absolutely no way he'd start bussing both without speaking to them first.

[serrapaladin]

I don't think it's all that unlikely.

Votes on USC went: you, D_O, LK, followed by a FoS by Beli and USC's claim, so I think it's possible USC wanted to give the impression the pressure from D_O and Beli caused him to fakeclaim.

I think D_O just wanted to bus/distance USC by placing the second vote. I doubt he expected USC to fakeclaim. 525 and 547 are then committing to the bus for towncred.

[serrapaladin]

Also, where's Rach? She's been around elsewhere...

Unless she comes up with something for me to respond to, I'll be putting a vote on her soon. I don't particularly see myself voting slimer, unless she can convince me of her town motivation.

[serrapaladin]

Well yeah, we basically need a unanimous vote, so it'll most likely come down to Boro.

I agree it's not a good scum tell, but Rach did try to use exactly that argument against Mae earlier this day...

[serrapaladin]

DO (just like Mae) was on both scum-wagons, whereas slimer was on neither, but I really do think Rach is scummier.

[serrapaladin]

Everyone in the GY should be ashamed of letting you live to MyLo...

[serrapaladin]

No, but we can't lynch both you and Rach.

[serrapaladin]

Nope, but I know I am. I'd be more sure about my scumread on Rach if you weren't so unpredictable...

[serrapaladin]

But Boro is conftown.

[serrapaladin]

As scum, I would always leave slimer alive til LyLo.

Rach, he's a 50% doc, and docs can't self target.

[serrapaladin]

Your self-vote and stuff are optimal WIFOM-fodder.

[serrapaladin]

I'm honestly not scum though... Please reconsider?

I probably would have made a similar entrance as scum, replacing in this late, but I do think Beli's post gives convincing evidence that Mae wasn't scum. Read any of Beli's scumgames and you'll find he wouldn't completely bus both of his scumbuddies with his first post, unless he had no other choice. If there's anything else in Mae's play you'd like me defend, I'll do my best, but please don't just give this to scum now.

"Avoiding the scum wagons" is a blatant mischaracterisation of Mae's play by Rach. Mae was actually on both lynch wagons, as was DO. It was slimer that was on neither, as I've pointed out.

[serrapaladin]

If anyone, I'd say it points to slimer. If either DO or Mae had been scum, the votes on Carey came in way too quick succession from scum. And slimer wasn't on either scum-lynch wagon.

[serrapaladin]

Why are you giving Mala's reads such weight? I agree she's a capable player, but she's just as town as everyone else that has flipped.

Do you agree that Beli wouldn't start off bussing both of his scumbuddies? And do you think scum would have been on or off the lynch wagons, given how they both went down?

[serrapaladin]

Well, Boro has voted me now, and slimer has promised to vote with Boro. If you're scum, you can just wait for that and hammer me for the win. We'll find out your alignment depending on whether you hammer or not, and then you and Boro can decide between slimer and me.

All the arguments you're making for DO not being scum because he pushed both scum-wagons is also valid for Mae, and I would say Beli's case was more extreme, being his first post after replacing in. If I were scum, Beli would have literally used his first post to fos 1 scumbuddy and vote the other.

[serrapaladin]

Yo, DL is coming up. If you wanna do something slimer, do it soon, so we don't have a deadline rush.

[serrapaladin]

And I'll be honest, I'm feeling like it's Serra, but I just know that if I vote him, Rach will hop on and we'll lose

What does this even mean? You think it's me, but you think if you vote me Rach will win?

I'm town, and I'm still leaning Rach over you, but do vote me if you really want, so we can at least know for sure whether it's Rach or not...

[serrapaladin]

So Rach, you scum?

[serrapaladin]

Wait, Rach just read this, I think. Her name was in Who Is Online

And she didn't hammer.

Slimer is scum.

Fuck.

[serrapaladin]

Rach, if you're scum, just hammer, so I can stop checking this!!!!

Otherwise, let's lynch slimer.

[serrapaladin]

And yeeeaaahh I figured if you were to hammer, you'd take the time to say something with it <.<

Lol no?

If she were scum, she would have just sniped with a GG, or something.

I'm not going anywhere.

[serrapaladin]

Oh ffs.

To be fair, when I replaced in, I hope it'd be the scumslot, and was a bit disappointed it wasn't. I tried my best, but I was a bit disappointed no one responded well to the Beli point. There is absolutely no way Beli would post 1 doublebus.

GG Rach, but I'll get you next time <3

[serrapaladin]

Well you did very well. There wasn't enough in your ISO for me to get conclusive evidence of you/DO being scum, so I had to resort to giving evidence for me being town :/

[serrapaladin]

[serrapaladin]

I still don't know a good way to respond to a cop guilty.

You self-hammer?

[serrapaladin]

Scum QT?