yep ok, after much coaxing, i am well and truly in! I'll be back tomorrow with something useful, relevant, and if you're lucky, maybe even accurate!Khelvaster wrote:Meanwhile, Battle Mage still hasn't posted--I just checked with him to see whether he still wants to play this game.
Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:Cogito Ergo Scum's First Law of Mafia
If you think someone's town, don't lynch him!
Page 6 is quite funny, because every single one of you appears to have totally missed the crux of the above post. If Sens DIDN'T have a PR, why would Khelv think he needed to put a vote down for the cop?Khelvaster wrote:
EDIT: I thought Sensfan wanted me to put down a vote for whoever the cop was (if there is a cop). When rereading that post, it is quite apparent that he wasn't trying to put a vote on a cop, but was instead posting C-O-P, without a vote for that..
Did i replace this guy? Jesus christ... 0.oXylthixlm wrote:A few instances of townies faking post restrictions do not change the fact thatElias_the_thief wrote:ugh. im still really conflicted on this SF issue. The only townie who ive seen fake a PR WAS my brother, who just does stuff like that. I dont really know SF to have a reputation, so I cant say whether theyd fake as town. Im pretty sure the PR isnt legit though.mostplayers who fake PRs are scum.
this is BS too.Xylthixlm wrote:I'm not saying they don't exist. I'm saying that "he might be trying to sabotage the game" is a bad argument for not voting someone. It's pretty much the same argument as "he might be a Jester".
incorrect. It proves Sens DOES have a PR. It also probably indicates that he isnt a Cop. The question is not whether Sens has a PR, it is, whether he is town with a PR, or mafia with a PR?Elias_the_thief wrote:that was clarified and doesnt actually prove anything.Korts wrote:Oh, and of course the slipup of the mod.
Extremely happy?jerubbaal wrote:Pretty sure I'm already voting him. I'm happy lynching him whenever. The reasons you deride as such crappy reasons are pretty strong for a day 1 lynch. I'm extremely happy.
ROFL!ting =) wrote:Just posting to say I'm still around. I couldn't really think of anything significant to add, so I've been keeping mum so far.
Elias is spot on here.Elias_the_thief wrote:Why would you want to keep him alive if you think hes scum.Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:Yay, replacements!
I must say I quite agree with what Shanba says, in the sense that, would SF be mafia, he'd likely be a goon/gf (which is the trend in mini normals) and that means it isn't very harmful if we keep him alive. I once before played a game where we kept a known mafia goon alive on purpose, and that turned out to be quite a good play. If SF keeps contributing, and he seems to be doing that quite a lot better lately, I guess I'm okay with keeping him alive. Still think he's scum, though.
1) the idea is to catch scum, and if we KNOW hes scum it gives as more info about who else is scum
2) it delays LYLO if we kill him now
Whatever situation in which you kept a goon alive before, I doubt it was like this.
More specifically, i was referring to your comment concerning CESc's attack on Sensfan. Dont do yourself down.Korts wrote:BM, I've read my 202, and I really don't see anything insightful. It's interesting to see how I thrash around a bit, but insightful I don't think.
It doesn't. It simply doesnt make any sense. What confirms his PR is Khelv's comment in response to his 'cop' post.Korts wrote: The rest I agree with, although I don't yet understand how SF's accidental self-vote confirms his PR.
roflShanba wrote:Um, if that's the case, why are younowvoting him?
I've already explained this pretty clearly. But to make you feel extra special, i'll explain it 1 last time.jerubbaal wrote: I don't see how Khel's screw-up confirms SF's claim at all. I agree with CES, I feel like it does exactly the opposite.
Dont get me wrong, im not totally up to speed yet, but...Jerub wrote:I'll support a no lynch over my lynch, but it's the exact same result in the end. SF is dead, once you lynch me. He's just trying to get off one more kill before he goes. If we leave him unblocked tonight, he's still going to get that kill, and we're in exactly same place tomorrow. Lynch SF, and we have 2 confirmed townies on 2 mafia with a bunch of unknowns floating in between.
You should sig this. CES, what are your thoughts on the way in which several players seem to be hiding behind your coattails?ting =) wrote:I'm with CES
this is a peculiar vote. It could be reluctant bussing, but if Sensfan is town, it looks more like an attempt to revive a dying wagon.Cavebear with a toothache wrote:Ugh. This is going nowhere, fast. I still believe that a claimed cop day one should be kept alive for information purposes, but since these sorry excuses for wagons don't seem to be going anywhere, I'm prepared to throw in the towel on this particular issue to get the game moving again. It's not like the guys currently voting SensFan hasn't had enough opportunities to toss their votes around, amirite?
Unvote
Vote: SensFan
Now to see who's willing to hammer. Might prove interesting. And to see if SensFan has some parting comments. If his PR is indeed fake, now would be a good time to share, I think.
Yeh. Thats the problem with such a wierd inconsistent -1 vote. I'd say it looks worse if Sens comes up town though.Shanba wrote:But, uh, either way you still think he's scum?Battle Mage wrote:this is a peculiar vote. It could be reluctant bussing, but if Sensfan is town, it looks more like an attempt to revive a dying wagon.Cavebear with a toothache wrote:Ugh. This is going nowhere, fast. I still believe that a claimed cop day one should be kept alive for information purposes, but since these sorry excuses for wagons don't seem to be going anywhere, I'm prepared to throw in the towel on this particular issue to get the game moving again. It's not like the guys currently voting SensFan hasn't had enough opportunities to toss their votes around, amirite?
Unvote
Vote: SensFan
Now to see who's willing to hammer. Might prove interesting. And to see if SensFan has some parting comments. If his PR is indeed fake, now would be a good time to share, I think.
FoS: Cavebear
This is grossly inaccurate. If scum are on the wagon, ofc we learn something from who voted him!!!Korts wrote:The logic goes somewhat like this: if he's town, therefore very likely cop, it is more than probable that scum are already on his wagon. Therefore we learn nothing from the hammer or who voted him.Xylthixlm wrote:In that case, I fail to see the logical connection between "Yeah, like it's out of the question that scum are already voting for him, having seen the easy kill." and "I'm not voting him."Korts wrote:No, I'm saying that either way, scum could already be on the wagon.
Umm, in this case, we see who put the last few votes on him, and they are 'more than probably' scum. What is wrong with you? You're pointing out the holes in your own reasoning!!Korts wrote: If he's scum, therefore... well, therefore scum, it is more than probable that once his scumbuddies saw the pressure building up on him, they thought it would be wisest to throw him under the bus and live to die another day. Therefore, again, we learn nothing from the hammer or who voted him.
What more do you WANT? If those things were all true, thats more than enough for a Day 1 lynch! In reality ofc, his PR is very easily verified, his claim wasnt unnecessary, and his contribution has been reasonable. But your response to this perplexes me...Korts wrote: Therefore, I'm against his lynch unless we have more to go on than a possibly faked PR, little contribution, and a premature, unwarranted claim
Hmm thats a good point. If this really is possible, than whoever (Shanba?) said a Cop in this setup was broken, is probably right.ting =) wrote:@Imat and BM.
It's a compromise decision. I've posted my reasons before, but in summary of why it's good:
If SF really is cop - no lynch will prevent nks, and SF will be free to investigate. We block for 8 consecutive nights until SF has a read on everyone. Then, we lynch him. He will turn out cop so we'll know that his results are accurate. We lynch the people with guiltys.
Its a common assumption i make. Guilty until proven innocent is a good philosophy for a town to hold. I'm pointing out that, from any which way you look at it, your vote looks scummy.Cavebear with a toothache wrote:It looks a bit peculiar, I'll give you that, but it was neither bussing nor trying to lynch town. The wagon I was on grinded to a halt, and I'd rather get the game moving by making a non-optimal lynch than let it slow to a complete halt. Probably not the tactically best decision, granted, but a compromise. You seem to assume I'm scum. I find that odd.Battle Mage wrote:this is a peculiar vote. It could be reluctant bussing, but if Sensfan is town, it looks more like an attempt to revive a dying wagon.
Fyi, breaking a PR is not always punishable by modkill. In fact, i'd say that is only the case in the rarest of scenarios. I dont have the greatest experience with them, but i'd guess that Sensfan would get at least a 'WARNING' for his first breakage. Modkill for a first offence is pretty harsh dont ya think?Cavebear wrote:I'm not following. How would we verify the claim? If you're referring to asking him to break the PR, wouldn't that be to be asking for a modkill if it is real? Or do mean something else?Battle Mage wrote:In reality ofc, his PR is very easily verified
really? do you find tagging along to be protown? Or is it suiting you to have an entourage?Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:I like it.Battle Mage wrote:You should sig this. CES, what are your thoughts on the way in which several players seem to be hiding behind your coattails?
Also not seeing any benefit to a nolynch today.
this is a very strong town tell at this stage of the game.Korts wrote:Actually, lovo, I'm a little surprised by your claim. I mean, you must be telling the truth, no need to lie anymore, so I'm not saying I doubt you, just, you know, surprised.
Elias_the_thief wrote:erm...I dont think he said that. Good rolefishing though. I'll keep that in mind for tomorrow.Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:@ Korst:Are you a roleblocker too?
this is an interesting point. If the scum arent all roleblockers, will Khelv have informed them about the setup? He cant have told them that the game had all roleblockers, and yet he must have given them some indication, otherwise theyd be screwed in a mass-claim. Of course, if there are mafia roleblocker(s) a game-breaking strategy is pretty impossible, unless the mafioso who makes the kill cannot Roleblock.ting =) wrote:Sensfan would be right if the mafia have roleblockers. Otherwise, the scum can't block whoever is blocking their nk-er. Can we assume that since we're all mostly roleblockers, the scum are all goons?
Nice idea kiddo, but the big flaw with this plan is that it will be a ridiculously long time before we learn anything. It is ofc also flawed if the scum do the obvious, and decide to No-Kill to fuck with the results.Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:Okay, so this should be easy.
Xyl blocks jerubbaal and vice-versa.
Joubert blocks Korts and vice-versa.
Imat blocks Shanba and vice-versa.
ting blocks Cavebear with a Toothache and vice-versa.
I will not submit an action.
We will lynch SF after he reveals his result.
who are you again?jerubbaal wrote:Are you deliberately misreading, like, everything BM?
And I'm pretty sure the reason you're FOSing CES is the reason he's confirmed.
i dont actually care. Much as the Mod in me sympathises with playing a moral game, the player in me says we should use everything we have to get a victory. I'm not modding now, and if i was, i'd note that ALL PR'S ARE MADE WITH THIS IN MIND.Cavebear with a toothache wrote:Even if breaking a PR isn't punishable by modkill, deliberately breaking it should be. Even if it isn't, it'd against the spirit of the rules and the game, IMHO. If I'm wrong and it's a valid and accepted way of playing, then sure, go ahead.
I don't think of CESc as confirmed. It could just as easily be him figuring out that Korts was pretty much outing himself by that point.
eh? i want to confirm a proveable role. Im no more attempting to break the game than you kids were with that poncey circular RB thing.Joubert wrote:Battle Mage, it seems like the only thing you want to do is to beat the system from the outside... This is boring...
lol. Why so paranoid? As far as i can recall, i havent voted for you yet. I'm nowhere near done with today. I'd like some reasoning please. ANYTHING to make me think that you are genuine misled town, as opposed to nervous, paranoid scum.jerubbaal wrote:Of the many roleblockers, CES and Korts were the only ones to comment on it in ways which implied they were also roleblockers before lovo's role was shown. Unless scum anticipated/knew the scenario beforehand (which I'll bet money they didn't, because SF claimed cop), this pretty much confirms both CES and Korts.
Aaaand the list you're critiquing was when we were still being smart and going to lynch SF. Thinking would be a plus. You're taking everything out of context. It's clear that you have a goal (get me lynched), and you're just trying to marshal all the support you can to that end.
Post 789 is very perceptive and possibly telling.Korts wrote:Okay, I guess if BM's done rereading, it'd be pretty much time to end the day.
Then the alternative is pretty obvious. -.-Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:Bad assumption, BM.Battle Mage wrote:Assuming SF's PR is confirmed to everyone's satisfaction, i reckon this kid is the play.
No, its your lack of initiative/intelligence. Why the hell are you not asking SF to PROVE his PR? Its a pretty conclusive way to prove him as scum, if you believe that to be true. Its pretty obvious you dont have the courage of your convictions, and you dont actually want SF to prove himself.Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:The alternative is lynching SF, which I've been vouching for all game. Look at the most recent posts. Most people think Jerub is town and SF is scum, yet they're rather willing to lynch Jerub because of claim-based reasons. All this while SF's claim doesn't make sense at all. It's general stupidity that keeps this town from moving forward, not my lack of initiative.Battle Mage wrote: Then the alternative is pretty obvious. -.-
If i could be bothered, i'd go back and point out how the vast majority of you are being, in light of these RB strategies that have been proposed, which clearly are against the ethics of fair play. Its how PR's work, in case you hadnt realised.Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:That is poor sportmanship and ethically wrong at best, and cheating at worst. I wouldn't ever play this way.Battle Mage wrote:No, its your lack of initiative/intelligence. Why the hell are you not asking SF to PROVE his PR? Its a pretty conclusive way to prove him as scum, if you believe that to be true.
PR's are made to be broken. I would be able to give you a classic example, but the game is ongoing, so i shalln't.Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:No. PRs aren't made to be broken.
And the RB strategies are simply directing night choices. However, you haven't seen me arguing for repeatedly nolynching. I think that'd bad too, actually. If you want, you can check the mini I'm modding. It has the rule that nolynching two days in a row is forbidden.
Requesting replacement because you don't get your way is not something I'd expect from you, BM.
ah good, you're here. Nice to know that you'll pop up to defacate on our graves, but that you arent gonna be here for anything useful. We are still waiting for you to break your PR. Its not like you've got any good reason not to.SensFan wrote:Battle Mage wrote:PR's are made to be broken. I would be able to give you a classic example, but the game is ongoing, so i shalln't.
And ftr, im not giving up because i havent got my own way as such. Its more the fact that ive spent a fair amount of time reading the game, and coming up with the optimum play for the town. Its far too exasperating playing as part of a town which clearly cannot use the correct strategy to win the game.
Plus if i'm honest, i'm more than a tad insulted over the whole PR thing. Using a key aspect of a role in order to assess its affiliation is NOT cheating.
I've given you guys some food for thought. I cant see me being able to achieve much more in the game until some people's attitudes change.
Maybe my replacement will have more joy.
BMVote: D
Vote: I
Vote: E
Vote: I
Vote: N
Vote: A
Vote: F
Vote: I
Vote: R
Vote: E
ah good, you're here. Nice to know that you'll pop up to defacate on our graves, but that you arent gonna be here for anything useful. We are still waiting for you to break your PR. Its not like you've got any good reason not to.SensFan wrote:Battle Mage wrote:PR's are made to be broken. I would be able to give you a classic example, but the game is ongoing, so i shalln't.
And ftr, im not giving up because i havent got my own way as such. Its more the fact that ive spent a fair amount of time reading the game, and coming up with the optimum play for the town. Its far too exasperating playing as part of a town which clearly cannot use the correct strategy to win the game.
Plus if i'm honest, i'm more than a tad insulted over the whole PR thing. Using a key aspect of a role in order to assess its affiliation is NOT cheating.
I've given you guys some food for thought. I cant see me being able to achieve much more in the game until some people's attitudes change.
Maybe my replacement will have more joy.
BMVote: D
Vote: I
Vote: E
Vote: I
Vote: N
Vote: A
Vote: F
Vote: I
Vote: R
Vote: E
Id rather not have discussed this so much beforehand-it only gives Khelv more ideas if Sens does have a PR. In my mind, 1 breach of a PR should be enough to warrant some public sign-probably a warning.Cavebear with a toothache wrote: Would you elaborate a bit further? Am I correct in thinking you want him to break his PR until publically warned, modkilled, or keep breaking it until it's obvious that he WOULD be modkilled if he had a PR? You stated earlier that you thought he does have a PR and is town-aligned, but also hinted that you didn't think he was a cop... Is that why you don't want to see jerubbaal lynched?
No. Im refraining from telling the mod how to run his game. I have a very low opinion of Mods who take advice from players on how to run the game whilst it is in progress, and i have a lower opinion of players who pressurise and force the Mod to make these adjustments.Cavebear with a toothache wrote:Whoa there. You're trying to actively mislead the mod? And you don't see a problem with this?Battle Mage wrote:Id rather not have discussed this so much beforehand-it only gives Khelv more ideas
^thisCogito Ergo Scum wrote:Khelv said that breaking a PR will result in modkill.
So, either SF gets modkilled and we lynch jerub, or SF lives to see himself lynched. We're basically given another lynch.
go hump yourself. No seriously-do it. I think your problem is you havent had any 'Jiggy-time' in a while (if ever).Joubert wrote:FoS: BattleMage, because he pisses me off...
Just wanted to say that i too am currently against Jerub's lynch-at least until we get a conclusion about Sens.Korts wrote:CESc, maybe you and jeru don't agree with the plan of jeru's lynch, but everyone else does. That's a majority, isn't it? I'm not native english, but the way I interpret "consensus", it's just a synonym for "majority". Correct me, though, if I'm wrong.
The fact is, the majority of the town is willing to lynch jerubbaal. I, for one, don't really care whether SF breaks his PR, but I'd rather see him do it than not. It would help us somewhat.
Im not voting because im kinda waiting on Sens. why is Shanba listed in Brackets? Also, how can you refer to a consensus when opinions change all the time? If there was a consensus, Jerub would be dead.Cavebear with a toothache wrote:Asking SF to claim is pointless, as I've already explained. As long as the alternative is lynching jerubbaal, asking him to claim is worse than the alternative/lynching jerubbaal if SF's town, and won't happen if he's scum. It would only be relevant if the alternative was to lynch him; then it would be in his best interest to get himself modkilled if he's town. Right now, it's not.
Last I checked, consensus was that jerubbaal - and not SF - was the lynch today. Has anyone changed their minds?
Imat, ting =), Battle Mage (and Shanba) - you're the ones not voting atm. Why not?
this post made me rofl.Shanba wrote:This post fails at making sense.Joubert wrote:The problem is, he may not be able to do it. Or maybe he doesn't know how. I don't know either. Anyways, I'm against this kind of play...jerubbaal wrote:I currently see two options - lynch me or make SF break his PR. If he refuses to break his PR, he must be scum and we lynch him.
Let me explain. Say I have a PR which is "You may not post use the letter e in any of your posts." If I was asked to break my post restriction, I could simply post: "Eddie the elephant", or something like that. You'd have to be really, really thick to be unable to break a PR.
We've had this debate over and over again. The terrible mod inconsistencies, and constant slips really f***ed us over. Part of the reason i replaced out was because i knew that unless we got a new face in here defending Sensfan, we had no hope, as Khelv took it upon himself to mess with the setup part way through the game without telling us.Korts wrote:The PM you quoted doesn't say that.SensFan wrote:Yeah.jerubbaal wrote:I'm basically the mafia GF. Pissed as hell when SF claimed that he had a guilty result on me, because if I get lynched, he's proved to not be the cop anyway. In the end, it might have been for the better, because the only chance in heck we have to win this is to get someone in the "confirmed" column and then execute in endgame.
About that, my Role PM said I was the GF.
